How did he know Bruce Wayne was Batman? When he sent those letters?
BOYS HMM
I LOVE BRINGINGCOCKS IN MY MOUTH
>gigabytes of data on metahumans
>assuming he didn't investigate batman
>>68079146
It's implied that his company is big on information.
>His office has a basketball court, this screams Google headquarters.
So he used Lex Earth and the Patriot Act because politicians are his fuccbois.
See? It's easy when you think.
He sent the letters to have the cripple on his side.
>>68079244
>batman
>metahuman
nice dubs
![1415493929260_wps_1_basketball_jpg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RfeYTwF.jpg "1415493929260_wps_1_basketball_jpg[1].jpg")
>>68079298
>>68079146
I think the security guard was sending them back on his own for a good while. After he got on Lex's radar, he influenced the content of them, hoping to push Bruce's buttons. It worked.
As for knowing who he was, he had something in the neighborhood of twenty years worth of accounts to look through. One thing that's always been an obvious tell for me is the fact that the Batman uses gear that would cost a shitload to one-off. That means that the Batman either has a wealthy benefactor or he's wealthy himself. Both roads lead to Bruce.
>>68079146
More fodder for the imagery crowd. Here's a picture of the party honoring Lex for his philanthropic endeavors and the big contribution to the Metropolis Public Library. Notice how in the right crowd and atmosphere, even Lex gets a halo.
Once again, it's not so we're supposed to think he's an angel or a saint(or a god); it's to let us know that he's being thought of in a saintly way by the people around him.
>>68079313
Are you dumb?
>>68079706
>I think the security guard was sending them back on his own for a good while
I think it was Lex doing it from the start. He found out about him because he read it in the newspaper, there's one specifically talking about how Bruce helped the guy.
>>68079146
IT WAS ME, BRUCE
IT WAS ME ALL ALONG
>>68080120
nice catch
Also note how Lex teases Bruce about "working together" and that his "R&D department is up to all sorts of no good".
At this point Lex already knows their identities, and already has planned for letting Bruce get the Kryptonite.
>>68080120
Sort of related, just wanted to mention before I forget. Remember during their fight how after Bruce drops Clark off the railing, he lands on a pile of rubble and makes it seem as if he's on an altar, then Batman unceremoniously drags him down and smashes him to the pillars, effectively destroying the church of Superman, and proving that he's no God. Ironically this "backfires" because he finally sees him as a man after successfully making him bleed.
How did Superman know Bruce was Batman again? Was it because of the party and hearing Alfred on the earpiece?
Supes says, "Bruce" near the start of their fight.
>>68080975
Yup.
>>68080975
>>68081018
That and he can see through his mask with XRay vision.
>>68080771
That's entirely possible, too, but at least to me, it runs counter to the way we see Lex operate through the rest of the film. He seems to be a big fan of planting ideas in other people's heads.
Also, in that prep scene with the guard where we see all the newspaper clippings, was he actually making some sort of bomb of his own? The news broadcast on him mentioned him being brought up on terrorist charges.
>>68080909
I loved that too. I believe this might just be the most comic-book-esque cape movie yet made, with Watchmen and Sin City being heavy contenders.
>>68081301
You know, I've never figured out what exactly that whole cord and cylinder is. I've just assumed he's just prepping for climbing the statue or some shit, and that's for strapping the graffiti cans.
>>68081429
>comic-book-esque
Not just comic-book-esque, but literal pottery in the least ironic sense.
>>68081439
That's what I thought at first, too, but I just can't see how defacing a monument on its own equates to an act of terrorism. Maybe the extended scenes will shed more light on it.
>>68081469
I don't disagree. Picked up something else in my last rewatch, too. The boat scene at the start of the rescue montage -someone's already pointed out the parallel to the story of Jesus walking on water, but I re-read that story, and there's some details in it that I believe shed light on what's being conveyed through the imagery. Here's the story for reference:
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.
27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
29 “Come,” he said.
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” Matthew 14:25-33
Another scene where Clark's oblivious to the image he's projecting. Notably, no one "goes out" to this man "walking on the water." Throughout the montage, we see him acting without hesitation until we reach the last, where he hesitates, looking down on the flood victims, at last aware of what he's becoming in their eyes. This is followed by a scene of him alone on a couch, listening to people talk about humanity's place in the new paradigm, while silently pondering his own place in it.
Beautiful.
![slow_clap_citizen_kane[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/9aj2aN1.gif "slow_clap_citizen_kane[1].gif")
>>68081840
The film that keeps on giving.
>>68081840
During the fight, Bruce progressively shows more of his cruel "demon side," at the same time his mask starts to break and the voice distorter gets damaged, ironically we see more of his evil side as the same time as his outer appearance becomes more human, effectively showing how evil is within reach of any man. After he drops Clark from the railing (his mask is shattered and we can hear his normal voice at this time) he drops down on him as a demon from above.
These threads give me hope, as well as ammunition to bombard normies with.
>>68080120
>>68080817
>>68080909
>>68081840
>>68082057
most underrated move of the year so far
>>68082159
I know exactly what you mean. Also, for anyone who'd like to hear it(and who hasn't heard it already), I'd be more than happy to outline what I think Lex's actual plan was.
>>68082292
please do
>>68079146
The right question would be how does no one else realize that Bruce Wayne is Batman ? and how does no one else realize that Clark Kent is Superman ?
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/BcHyWiD.png "latest[1].png")
Since this thread is becoming an observation dump:
>How Bruce uncovers his car by removing its cover before going to Lex's charity event is a callback to the MoS scene where Jonathan Kent shows little Clark his ship and he uncovers the ship's cover.
>Bruce's car is black Lex's is white, Diana's is grey.
>The names next to Lois' locker are "Rigby" and "Klaff", haven't found out anything about these names yet but my guess is probably they're people related to the comics or someone who worked on the film.
>>68082159Oh, I'm sure there'll be another huge info dump once enough accumulates, maybe even before the extended version is published.
>>68082292
>>68082321
OK, so in essence I believe that we're intended to keep in the forefront of our minds that Lex has zero problem distorting facts, misrepresenting himself, and playing on what he perceives to be the beliefs of others. Holly Hunter's character, Senator a Finch, is one of the only people in the entirety of the film to have the slightest inkling of what Lex's motives really are. For this reason, I don't think we can safely take anything Lex says at face value, most especially when he's speaking to someone he's trying to head game, which is nearly everyone, all the time.
More in next post
>>68082396
>how does no one else realize that Clark Kent is Superman
Everyone close to Clark knows who he is, but they're too terrified to say anything; Clark is also aware of this but decides to play on and doesn't make much effort in hiding his identity; he has a sense of humor.
>how does no one else realize that Bruce Wayne is Batman
Because he's Batman.
>>68082396
>and how does no one else realize that Clark Kent is Superman ?
Because why would an alien have a job? In fact that's the main reason Batman didn't trust Superman, he thought he was just an all powerful alien with no connection to the people on Earth, it's why he spares him ultimately.
>>68079244
>gigabytes
The archive had 250mb.
Finally a good thread about this movie.
I'd like to add that the parallel between Bruce and Clark was they're both trying to find a place in the world.
Batman is obviously portrayed as older and more cynical and given the way he handles death it made a lot of sense to me that he would wage full war on Superman. Witnessing the destruction in Metropolis made him feel as if he were that same child that watched his parents get murdered by the mugger being completely powerless combining that with the innate feeling of inadequacy realizing despite all of his skills and resources he's still just a fragile human.
That's just my two cents though.
>>68082505
Finch figures out early on that what Lex really wants isn't a deterrent, but rather a weapon of assassination. She doesn't drink his piss. She goes to her grave not doing so. But we see that Lex has already been involved in a campaign of a different sort of assassination, one of character. It appears that in his mind, simply killing Clark isn't enough. No, he must first make of him a villain. One could say that this was all just fear-mongering to get the government to grant him and his company access to what he wanted, but I don't believe that was his dole motive for trying to drag Superman's name through the mud. If that were the case, he'd have had no need tobomb the hearing.By that point, he already had everything he wanted - access to the ship, access to Zod's remains, and a big honking hunk of kryptonite en route.
The hearing killed three birds with one stone -the death of the Senator who smelled a rat, the death of the guard he'd had direct (if clandestine)contact with, and placing Superman front and center in yet another controversial tragedy.
So about that kryptonite
ITT: people projecting things on this movie that just aren't there
>>68082523
>Everyone close to Clark knows who he is, but they're too terrified to say anything; Clark is also aware of this but decides to play on and doesn't make much effort in hiding his identity; he has a sense of humor.
dumbest theory-crafting i've ever heard
>>68082797
>it's too deep for him
>>68082797
Way to dismiss a centuries worth of cultural theory with your amazing reaction post.
>>68082783
Just to add something, when Lex gives the cripple the wheelchair it's referencing Professor X and how the classic Bond villain Blofeld's trope of slowly revealing himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BT00WU7Iss
![thatsthejoke[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QRNFy8h.jpg "thatsthejoke[1].jpg")
>>68082843
can someone post what bruce's words were in the very beginning of the film?
>>68082783
The only reason Lex ever wanted the government involved in the importation of the kryptonite was to lend him an air of greater legitimacy down the road. We already know he was bringing it into the country, approval or not. I also believe he always had every intention of it ending up in Bruce's hands. Lex invites him to come take a look at Lexcorp's R&D lab, he's already aware of Bruce's secret, and he'd have already heard that his illicit activities were drawing the Bat's attention(the White Portugese).
His plan in regards to the Bat was to push his buttons via the security guard and the smear campaign against Supes, and make damn sure that the kryptonite end up in the Bat's hands via a method that allowed him to appear blameless. Finch's refusal to grant him an import license stymied his effort somewhat by denying him to appear entirely aboveboard in his actions, but he would still come out smelling like a rose in retrospect if the rest of his plan had succeeded.
>>68080975
There's a deleted scene of Clark investigating in Gotham apparently.
>>68083088
>There was a time above. A time before. There were perfect things, diamond absolutes. But things fall. And what falls is fallen.
> In the dream, they took me into the light. A beautiful lie.
>>68083150
did anyone else expect it to cut back to bruce crawling into the cave after he said "a beautiful lie"
>>68083150
>>There was a time above. A time before. There were perfect things, diamond absolutes. But things fall. And what falls is fallen.
so is he referring to himself currently (fallen/unhinged)? what he believes Superman is (a beautiful lie)?... or something else
What did Bruce whisper to the black fighter in the underground fight club scene?
>>68083089
The Metahuman Thesis
We find out via Bruce and Diana that Lex already had in his possession irrefutable proof of the existence of other superhumans. If he had such information, why did he appear to just be sitting on it? Making a revelation of such magnitude would definitely guarantee him a place in the history books, but he seems content to just keep it to himself. Also, why did they have icons that appeared to be tailor-made for each of them? I believe he had a definite goal in mind for them, and we'll revisit this point again later.
>>68083286
>"Stop playing and knock this nigga out senpai"
>>68083280
Basically he says that there was a time where his ideals stood up for something, Batman was a symbol of hope for himself, but 20 years of crimefighting+the coming of Superman shattered his spirit.
>>68083286
Probably suggested a way to beat the other guy
>>68083286
He'd spotted the other fighter telegraphing his punches and passed it along to him, allowing him the edge to win.
I want to know if lex is going to get his power armor
>>68080975
He heard Alfred talking in Bruce's ear during the party at Lex's place and deduced from there, remember.
>>68083286
>aim for his left side, his guard is weak there
>>68083280
He's referring to mankind in general(or at least his faith in it) and himself in particular. The"beautiful lie" was the hope that his campaign of vengeance could ever bring him peace.
>>68081495
Even THIS we're left hoping the extended version can make sense of.
>>68083335
I thought he would in this film because I always thought that Zods armour looked like Lex's power armour. Like he would be wearing that.
>>68083300
OK, so he's wound the Bat up tighter than an eight day clock, and already orchestrated a brief confrontation between Supes and the Bat(and eliminated Bat-Brand in the process, a low level operator that knows nothing, or at least doesn't know what he knows). At this point, all he really needs to do is keep tabs on Bruce's progress and keep teams on standby to nab Martha and Lois.
That's key - the next phase of his plan involves nothing more than keeping assets in place and waiting on Bruce.
Regarding MoS, it's interesting during the final battle when Zod kicked the oil tanker and Superman dodged it, it only exploded after a slight delay and Superman visibly turns around to look. It doesn't seem like he expected that to happen but does prove that he's checking for the damage, only for Zod attack from behind.
Same thing with the satellite. Zod throws the thing at Superman and he does catch it. No doubt he could have put it back in orbit but Zod just plows through it, causing debris to fall all over Metropolis as they crash into the city.
I don't think it's just about how in a "realistic" setting there would always be collateral. It's that in, again, a "realistic" setting someone who wants to cause destruction will cause destruction, no matter how hard Superman tries.
>>68079146
A deleted scene ;^)
>>68083506
Fight Night
With Bats prepping his killing ground, he has his Kansas team nab Martha and transport her to somewhere along th Gotham Harbor. Once Bats lights his signal, he co facts the other team to bring him Lois, confident that putting her in peril will bring him Supes, which it does. At this point, Lex attempts to use Martha as the necessary leverage to get Clark to bring him Bruce's head.
Remember what I said about Lex's propensity for manipulation and lying? It's on full display here, as practically nothing beyond the bare skeleton of what he says to Clark is the truth. He's saying exactly what he thinks will best convince Clark that he's a dangerous lunatic whose sole motivation for wanting him to kill Bruce is to prove that "God chooses sides." He even throws in the whole abused child angle to further convince Clark that he's dealing with a dangerously unbalanced individual. He is, mind you, utLex's madness is of an entirely different sort than what he play-acts for Clark.
He calls Martha a witch, shows Clark pictures of her with "witch" written on her forehead, and tells Clark that she'll receive "death by fire" as witches have throughout history. This is all subtle manipulation and misdirection on Lex's part. We saw earlier with Granny's Peach Tea that Lex absolutely loves his victims to know it was him that was the author of their doom, Ned this would have had the same effect on Clark, if not for Lex's one catastrophic, if understandable, miscalculation.
>>68083568
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZZIEkFk_NQ
>>68083870
carry on dumping, I'll go to sleep now but check on it later
that goes for anyone else too, love new theories, observations and new POVs
>>68083870
"God" vs. Man
Many people contend that Lex saw the big fight as a win-win, but I don't think that was the case at all. I believe he had a backup plan in place to account for the slim chance of Bruce actually winning, but a slim chance is all Lex could realistically afford him. This plays back into the sole miscalculation in Lex's scheme.
Lex believes that, God-like powers aside, Clark is still just a man, no different than himself. Earlier, Lois calls Lex psychotic, to which he replies "'Psychotic is a three-syllable word for ideas too big for small minds." This is one of relatively few insights we get into Lex's true character and motives. While psychosis is sort of a catch-all term for madness, Lex definitely does have a far more specific condition -psychopathy. As such, he views others without empathy and ultimately believes the same of everyone. In his mind, true altruism and heroism are just the symptoms of stupidity. Great men like himself(and Superman) only do "good" to serve their own image and ego. Ultimately, he sees no difference between Clark's acts of heroism and his own acts of self-aggrandizing philanthropy.
For these reasons, he fully expects Clark to act precisely as he would if presented with a similar dilemma. In other words, he expects Clark to take Bruce's head off without any appeals or negotiations. Why? Well, Alex's stated reason is so that people can see the "blood on God's hands," but as with so many things with Lex(and this film in general), that is simply the most superficial of truths. In reality, Lex definitely needs Clark to win for his "Plan A" to succeed, which is to present Clark to the world as a cold-blooded murderer, a dangerous alien menace.
>>68084066
The amount of discussion people have to bring to the whole narrative is overwhelmingly satisfying
>>68084441
When Superman departs for his fight with Bruce, he does so as the only person other than Lex and Martha herself who is aware of Lex's blackmail. This can only mean that regardless of the outcome of the fight, he absolutely intends for his mercenaries to burn Martha. It's his only out other than prison. The same can be said for Lois, who he just pushed off a building and to which, again, Superman is the sole third-party witness.
How does Lex intend to eliminate the remaining witnesses to his crimes? The answer is Doomsday.
If all had gone according to plan, Clark would have returned with Bruce's head, Lex would have most likely told him that he could find Martha at the family farm, and off he would have flown. Meanwhile, Lex starts the countdown we hear till Doomsday's release and beats a hasty retreat, his mercenaries burn Martha and depart immediately to find and eliminate Lois.
Here is Lex's true win-win - Clark versus Doomsday.
Earlier, I mentioned Lex's manipulative use of the flamethrower to elicit the horrors of burning in Clark's mind, but it too serves a dual purpose. Their choice of flamethrower is even important, as the kind they're using isn't the military grade one might at first expect. It's a commercial grade that produces flame via ignited gas as opposed to a liquid petroleum jelly. Why is that an important distinction? Because it would leave little in the way of evidence and of all the ways that Superman might kill a person, burning them to death is not only the method that doesn't require physical contact, but is also the most easily mimicked.
So. Clark kills Bruce, Lex torches Martha and releases Doomsday, in the ensuing chaos, his mercenaries find and eliminate Lois while Clark's in the fight of his life.
Why? Next post.
>>68084885
Lex wanted to give the world an alien menace. In reality, his plan goes one better than that and gives it two -the murderous Kryptonian who just killed a fellow vigilante and the alien horror that is Doomsday. The only person left living(and not on Lex's payroll) that can oppose Lex's version of the facts is Clark himself, on whom Lex fully anticipated having video evidence of the commission of murder.
Lex's plan now enters its endgame - the gathering of the Justice League. With evidence in hand, Lex is now free to reveal his true "deterrent" against threats to the people of earth. Regardless of the outcome of the Doomsday fight, there will remain one alien threat remaining for his league to face. They'll even have the kryptonite weaponry Bruce created, but "tragically" died before having a chance to deploy.
And so it is that Lex Luthor becomes the founder and benefactor of the Justice League. His personalized icons for their folders even serve as evidence of how he intended to commercially "brand" them.
At this point, you might still ask, "But to what end?"
Well, that all comes back to what Lex wants. Wealth? He has that. Power? He has that too, after a fashion. Fame? Already his as well. So what remains? Something that I very much doubt he saw an in-road to before the debut of Superman - godhood. Lex has seen that his philanthropy can buy you a bright, if tawdry, halo in the eyes of some, a cheaper version of sainthood, one could say, but godhood? That requires one to become a savior. I don't doubt for one minute that Lex intended to eventually find a way to grant himself Kryptonian abilities via his research in the birthing matrix, but being the man who brought the league together to save all mankind would do for a start.
Yes, this shy, retiring visionary genius, Saint and savior. That'll do for now.
And it all could have worked, had Clark been anything other than what he is -a hero.
>>68085583
Thanks for clearing up everything Mr. Snyder
>>68085631
Any time.
>>68083300
I'm starting to think that Lex's plan was to essentially create the Justice League anyway. First, he wanted to prove that humanity didn't need a god especially from the stars to protect it by having Bats kill Supes, setting the stage for metahumans to take his place. Doomsday was to be the uniting factor, an apocalyptic Superman-sized threat with no Superman to take him down.
>>68085898
Why would he want to create the justice league?
>>68086107
Nvm
>>68086107
Some possibilities:
>He wants to create the JL for the same reason he called Darkseid, he wants to force them to confront one another. Sounds familiar? He seems to enjoy gods bowing against his will, after all.
>If we follow the "Lex is the person who believes in Superman the most" (refer to Snyder Gospel aka the 19 post compilation), what better way to prove that moral absolutes do exist than pitting absolute evil and absolute good against each other?
>>68085898
Yup, Plan B was releasing was iffier, because if Bruce won, there's really no time to gather the league. Even Bruce knew he was outclassed 1v1 on Doomsday and promptly noped out every time it turned his way.
WHY DID HE SAY THAT NAME
>>68081495
was it terrorism or vandalism
and in so far as terrorism, it could be seen as a hate act/speech thing
okay but what about Clark and Bruce being gay
>>68082736
you're on the right track, and male identity and it's relation to power is a part of the story on screen
we already know that a lot of imagery and even physical objects themselves can stand for many thing
i think that in the same way bruce and lois enter the water, the fact that the spear also enters the water is important as well. the movie had been men trying to overpower each other and the spear was representative of that
>>68083150
I was genuinely moved by the delivery in combination with the imagery.
I guess people prefer Iron Man being a sarky bastard or dancing trees.
This thread has to be the biggest fart eating festival ever
>>68087446
I like how this whole movie is basically "The Dark Knight Returns" in reverse. Here it's Superman's sacrifice that serves as the start of Bruce's redemption. Seeing humanity and bravery in Clark makes him more aware of the potential for good in everyone - a light that's a beautiful truth.
Why the fuck did he act like the Joker? Lex is cold and calculating, not eccentric and psychotic.
>>68083280
i think it refers to the literal state of mind he's in ie the batman
but i also think it may refer to psychology, and the nature of conscious memory and the unconscious, to back up this way of looking at it i look to the bat dream with martha, and how there's stuff going on that he's not consciously aware of that's affecting him
i'm not too into psychoanalysis, but many of the sexual images and juxtapositions seemed too precise to be random
>>68087524
>>68085583
"Acting" is the key word, and this isn't Lex, really. It's his son Alexander.
>>68087524
>The Mandarin isn't an out-of-work actor
Why is it only DC that gets flak for diverging from the original comic characterisations.
>>68083335
>>68083476
he enacts power through knowledge
and i'd like to see that explored even more, the idea of someone who absolutely and completely uses their mind and intellect to enact their will on the world around them
this happens in many of the justice league comics as well, where luthor doesn't involve himself in phsyical fights but moves things behinds the scenes and plays his hand at the right time
It's never explained because this movie is shit and badly written. So fanboys who wasted months of their lives hyping this movie up doing it for free have to make stuff up to justify wasting their lives to themselves.
>>68087602
Basically for the same reason that when Clark acts conflicted and filled with guilt, doubt, and remorse, he's "not muh Superman," but the instant he chooses to risk his own life over someone else's vs. Doomsday, it's a "plot hole."
Batman v Superman confirmed for capekino. I saw it yesterday and it was beautiful, why is snyder getting backlash?
>>68087644
Did people miss the montage of him saving people or something?
Or the fact that Batman throws himself in harms way repeatedly all to save innocents?
There's no winning with Marveldrones.
>>68085505
>commercially "brand" them.
this just clicked with me,
throughout the movie visual brands are important,
bruce brands criminals in the act of justice
superman is called upon
darkseid brands the earth in bruce's dream
i'm not sure how, but this can also be connected to that while also serving as a window into lex's thoughts
>>68085583
>>68086399
These ideas are really compelling and make sense given the context of the film. I wouldn't be surprised if it was exactly what Snyder was going for
But the audience shouldn't have to do so much analysis to understand something as basic as the villain's motivation and plan. Obfuscating something as crucial as that isn't being smarter than the average blockbuster, it's just alienating the audience
I think that's where BvS really lost people, the movie just doesn't do that great of a job drawing its characters or giving the audience ways to empathize with them. it's no coincidence that people actually liked batfleck, the character who gets an extended prologue sequence telling us how he thinks and why he has a really good reason to hate superman. when you spend your time wondering why superman finds superheroism a burden, or end the film still not understanding what luthor's whole shtick was about (which is the thing the whole plot revolves around), you don't really get to even consider the movie's actual themes. and that's where the "fun" complaint comes from. despite actually being a way darker movie than batman v superman, the dark knight was a fun and thrilling movie specifically because its characters were well-defined and clear, and the audience wanted to know what was going to happen to them despite the fact that it was inevitably going to be sad and horrible. right down to the villain; despite telling everyone a different motivation, constantly changing his plans and never revealing what makes him tick, the audience leaves that movie with a fully-formed sense of who the joker was, what he wanted and how he operated. and because the basic characterization and storytelling of TDK were so accessible, moviegoers embraced its header elements and themes.
ultimately, BvS deserve that admittedly ridiculous RT score because it has all the elements of a great, smart movie, it's just too full of itself to synthesize them together in a smart way
>>68082797
>Marvelfags too dumb to understand Kino
>Being a dumb /co/tard who whines about childish things like "muh fun"
Lmaoing my Bat-Ass off senpai
>>68079146
Why do people assume Lex sent those checks? When he's talking about his plan to Superman his lines imply that he knew about them not that he actually sent them.
>>68088108
Dude in the wheelchair said he had nothing. If he had been getting the cheques he would have had something.
>>68088157
Why the hell did Lex intercept cheques to the cripple guy for two whole years and why the fuck did that guy shout the name of his boss like it means something when getting arrested???
>>68087959
i disagree
the movie conveys it's bare plotline effectively, you don't need to look into it to know what is happening with batman and superman individually and between each other, when lex reveals his manipulation it's the same as an machiavellian villain that everyone is already used to
and in regards to clark, the acts themselves that he commits to aren't a burden to him, it's the tension between perspectives and unintended consequences that may come out of him doing what he thinks is right, the burden isn't that he carries the world, the burden is that he can't be a perfect shepherd.
the deleted scene of him listening to metropolis could have been really good for this, illustrating how he lives within this endless stream of human suffering and yet feel helpless, as him just going through and intervening in everything he hears isn't the best solution.
i think cutting a lot of clark's scenes was a mistake
although i've had fun with this movie because i do think it makes a point of exploring a few trains of thought in particular that haven't been on screen yet, closes being the dark knight which approaches some of the same thought space from a different angle for a different end ie public perception in relation to public figures, sanctity and falls from grace
i think they should just go ahead and try to release epics, while making sure that they are as good as they possibly can be maybe even to the point of sacrificing some accessibility. i really believe in this direction. even if the performance of this symphony didn't cut it, i do see a great work trying to show itself.
>>68081954
>>68081840
referencing the bible does not make a movie great
Did Batman kill people in the movie? It was hard to tell - I mean, he most likely killed that guy with the fuel-pack. And Bat seemed kinda gun-happy in the movie. It felt so wrong
>>68088365
He opened fire on people with his batwing and it caused a huge explosion so if the bullets didn't kill them the explosion would have.
>>68088365
it's "ambiguous"
i've looked at it this way:
none of those people had to be doing what they were doing and they could have always dropped what they were doing and ran away
the warehouse scene is absolutely clear in this. every single person in there had every opportunity to drop their weapons and leave. they didn't.
which brings me to something else,
why do people care so much for the lives of people we know are career killers? why does it bother us that batman is so violent against those who seek to oppress others and seek profit from human suffering?
if the police/swat were involved, we wouldn't bat an eye at the death of any of these people
the way i see it, he took the straightest line to martha he could while not being concerned with the well being of those in that warehouse.
in our world, governments sacrifice innocent lives to get to people they consider evil
not one person on the receiving end of batman's brutality was an innocent. if evil people are the collateral sacrificed so that a person who is undeniably innocent is spared, what's the problem?
>>68087602
because literally no one gave a shit about Marvel before the MCU so no one has any preconceived biases against it
>>68088583
this is actually an interesting social phenomenon
the way in which people were bothered by their own mismanaged expectations and desires.
>superman keeps saving people but shows concern of being seen as a deity
WAHH SUPERMAN STOP BEING HUMAN
>batman brutally takes down cold blooded murderers most likely killing some
WAAAAAAH BATMAN STOP KILLING
>>68087717
You can't blame them. Their heroes don't save much people at all. Except Cap but barely
The chase scene murders were stupid now that I think about it.
Because Bruce brands criminals he deems fit to die in prison.
But if the next scene is showing him kill people, why doesn't he just kill the crooks himself?
I guess he kills no one in the warehouse, except for the guys outside using the chain gun.
why didn't Superman use x-ray vision when Batman dropped his smoke bomb to shoot kryptonite at supes the first time?
>>68088556
I don't care about career killers - I care about Batman's character that is such a good guy that he goes the extra mile to not kill. You know, like a super-hero
>>68089316
I find it so weird that DC let Zack write these things in. In other products they are always so fucking picky with "no, you can't have Character X have a Finish Him-move" etc
It kinda hurts because Batman was pretty okay otherwise.
>>68089162
Did you watch Ultron? The entire last fight on the floating island consists of 50% of just scenes of them evacuating and saving people. The first Avengers-movie had whole scenes with Captain America dealing with a hostage-situation etc
>>68089572
Why didn't Lex just put a bunch of Kryptonite shrapnel in the chair-bomb and kill Superman at the hearing?
>>68089888
why didn't lex place kryptonite at clark's house and abduct him?
>>68089690
... did you watch the movie?
>>68089888
Lex is petty, killing Superman right then would be a mercy and contradict his intention of turning public opinion against Superman first, then killing him to come out as a savior second.
Daily reminder the part with the flash in a time portal wasn't a fever dream and was Bruce's motivation to form the justice league
>>68090243
The public was already against Superman
>>68090276
>they hoped viewer confusion would spark interest and conversation
>it triggered frustration
>>68090296
the public was presented as split, the /tv/ pundits of course capitalizing on the controversy
>>68089572
It had lead in it?
>>68089572
Chaff
>>68080975
I really liked how that Superman knew that Bruce Wayne was already Batman. Superman could easily use his x-ray vision to look under the mask and discover who it is.
Film is badly edited though.
>>68087524
i mean, that really depends on the comics you read but a lot of the time he acts like that.
Isnt Superman fast enough to see when the bomb exploded at the very pentosecond? He could've saved a few people instead of standing like an idiot.
>>68090651
This supes is clearly not silver age levels overpowered.
>>68090687
He teleported from the north pole to Metropolis in less than the time it took for Lois to hit the ground after Lex pushed her off the building
>>68079146
Zuckerberg has ways of getting your personal information.
>>68090725
That scene had taken place long before she was pushed off. He could already have been on his way back or somewhere in the vicinity.
>>68089690
kek, go read a comic
>>68090651
he was caught by surprise
with literally dialog stating how he was caught off guard
if there is one thing to bitch about this movie, youve picked literally the worst thing to bitch about when its already explained and spoonfed to your dumb ass
>>68090812
this is what gets me, the very things people complain about are things that are spoon fed, albeit a bit fast at times
>>68081495
>>68083402
>>68087307
'Terrorism' as a charge is something that is abused and misused - dissuade behaviors/beliefs, political reasons, to defame someone.
Years ago police attempted to charge the makers of ATHF with terrorism. The press conference was great.
>>68087602
Mandarin was great, stay butthurt
>>68090651
If he tried to grab people and yank them out at that speed they'd be torn apart anyways.
>>68091332
No. Bioforcefield. Tactile telekinesis.
>>68079146
Bruce's one accountant knows he's batman. Probably told Luther when lucious indirectly threatened him
>>68087413
"Have you ever made love to a man?"
"YOU WILL"
>>68091924
"do you deepthroat?"
>>68087413
"It's time you learned what it means to take it from a man"
>>68090296
He had mostly positive media coverage.
The events in Africa sparked the debate further, and even then it wasn't really making him a menace Luthor intended him to be.
>We, as a population on this planet, have been looking for a savior. 90% of people believe in a higher power, and every religion believes in some sort messianic figure. And when this savior character actually comes to Earth, we want to make him abide by our rules? We have to understand that this is a paradigm shift. We have to start thinking beyond politics.
>Are there any moral constraints on this person? We have international law. On this Earth, every act is a political act.
>Is it really surprising that the most powerful man in the world should be a figure of controversy?
>To have an individual engaging in these state-level interventions should give us all pause.
> Human beings have a horrible track record of following people with great power, down paths that led to huge human atrocities.
>We have always created icons in our own image. What we've done is we project ourselves on to him. The fact is, maybe he's not some sort of Devil or Jesus character. Maybe he’s just a guy trying to do the right thing.
>We're talking about a being whose very existence challenges our own sense of priority in the Universe. When you go back to Copernicus where he restored the Sun in the center of the known universe, displacing Earth, and you get to Darwinian evolution and you find out we're not special on this Earth; we're just one among other lifeforms. And now we learn that we're not even special in the entire Universe, because there is Superman. There he is, an alien among us. We're not alone.
>Are you, as a United State Senator, personally comfortable saying to a grieving parent, "Superman could've saved your child, but on principle we did not want him to act."
>I'm not saying he shouldn't act. I'm saying he shouldn't act unilaterally.
>>68092790
thought it was good the first time, saw it again on friday and now i absolutely love it.
I really don't know if this thread is for real or not. I am a Batman fan and I found this movie to have some plot holes. It is a flawed movie. Entertaining and not as bad as most people say it is, but entertaining. Though I have to concede a point. Besides the preconceived notion of Luthor being "the bad guy", his whole plan was not as clear and along with some other things in the movie, should not have be so thoroughly analyzed to deduce. One might argue that this somehow makes the film " deep" but it doesn't. It makes it confusing. Take consideration of the medium. If this were a comic book or a graphic novel I might let it pass, but this is a commercial film, so it is suppose to appeal to a wide audience who should understand the film without taking a philosophy course or read issues of the comics.
>>68079146
D R O P P E D
>>68093079
Sorry for the typos. I was posting from my phone. But I think the point was made. Also :"Entertaining and not as bad as most people say it is, but flawed." is what I meant to say.
>>68092790
i really liked all that, and how it basically turned out to be pretty subtle since all of it gets glossed over
>>68079146
>29%
>>68093079
i think it's all very clear, lex is moving things behind the scenes. you don't need to connect all the dots to understand the core of what is happening, which is made explicit by lex himself in his monologue on the tower.
of course i say this with bias because i got the logistics on first viewing, and my thoughts were that the movie goes the extra mile to hold the viewers hand while also jogging and pulling the viewer along in regards to how it divulges information, which is where i think confusion sets in as it stretches the demand for short term memory information recall from the viewer
and of course none of this means the movie is masterpiece or deep.
and in regards to your commercial comment, i disagree with your statement of what a wide release should or shouldn't be on principle. now specifically to the movie, you don't need to know anything about comics or philosophy or literature to follow the movie
batman is obsessed with killing superman
superman has doubts of his place in the world while not approving of batman (shown, but not expounded upon, clark going to gotham to investigate would have made his view of batman undeniably clear)
and lex just wants more power for himself, moves things behind the scenes to get what he wants "i love bringing people together
these things are clear, even if they could have been made clearer. specifically, clarks side of the story
>>68093838
>RT
Do you also applaud the use of focus testing to appeal to as wide a demographic as possible, producing movies purely for profit?
I hope so, because that's what lauding a high RT score as the pinnacle benchmark of movie quality is leading to.
>>68092790
most depressing montage ever, poor Henry
>>68082797
Go back to /co/ pleb.
Snyder may haVE problems but he is well beyond capeship emptyness.
>>68087307
They are really really really gay for each other in the comics
>>68088242
To make Wayne feel guilty. How is that out of your grasp? try to answer your own questions before posting.
>>68080145
Not him, but Batman is not a meta human. He is a regular man.
>>68093840
Don't get me wrong. I am a comic book fan and a huge Batman fan and though I actually prefer DC, I enjoy some movies from Marvel. I wanna get that out of the way. What I am attempting to address are my issues with the movie. I actually really really liked it. I have only seen it once, but I have read a lot of the issues that people have with this movie are centered around the plot moving too "fast", and so it ends up looking disjointed at times or forced. This is why I mention the whole "mind the medium". Personally, there are things I wished would've been handled differently, but the movie makes sense to me. However, to the majority of people, it didn't. My opinion is that perhaps (I really hope) scenes that could've helped the movie make more sense were cut (for length or profit from home release). That being said, to me the movie is 8/10.
I also dismiss any arguments that in their core are "but Marvel makes fun light-hearted family movies and so should DC". It is because of that bias that a lot of people's reviews of this movie are so bad. And a lot of the "flaws" in BvS are also present in Marvel movies.
>>68079146
If Batman has been operating for that long in Snyder's universe, and Snyder's universe is supposed to be all "how would the real world react to superheroes" then Batman's identity would have been exposed years ago, especially in the age of the internet.
And even if it hadn't been publicly exposed, somebody like Bruce Wayne would be a hottly debated suspect.
>>68094521
yeah i hear you, i've been 'defending' the movie and have also been mentioning how much information is packed in time.
it's actually something i've been wanting to comment on, people say the first half is 'messy' but that to me signals that the movie indeed went through that first half in a fast manner, so that when people try to recall what happens, it comes back as a 'mess'. of course, this is speculative on my part.
those last sentences are pretty much what i've been trying to prove and then 'fight' on here. most of the reception of bvs came from it being different, not from it being the hyperbolic bad movie people were making it out to be. i've been trying to point out this inconsistency in how people have treated bvs but that gesture always gets misconstrued.
anyway, the final 'reason' i have for liking the movie is that it made me think about the possibilities of what they can show on screen. dc has always had more 'weird' concepts and that exploration of the cultural mind through these characters and the possibility within that going forward is what interests me.
as has been proved time and again, people don't understand that snyder isn't making a direct 1 to 1 comparison between superman and jesus at all, and i fear that they'll be scared from doing certain things. i think there's a balance between absolutely weird and accessible that they really have a chance at hitting
>>68094863
Exactly. Listen, I don't deny the movie has flaws, and that even to some extent, even DC fans were a bit let down, but what I have an issue with is how I think this movie has been trashed in the public opinion for mistakes and bad decisions that Marvel has also made, and they wanna make it a Marvel vs DC thing. All movies, specially superhero movies have their hits and misses Now it seems everyone actively wants BvS to fail hard.
>>68094575
Bruce Wayne? The billionaire playboy? No way. He doesn't give a shit about Gotham.
Do you guys think movie Waller knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? It's been shown in both the comics and the cartoons that she does.
And if Batman has been regularly violating U.S. airspace with an unregistered military grade aircraft I'm betting the military/intelligence community had a vested interest in finding out who's behind the stick
>>68095980
batman's relationship with government infrastructure will get more fleshed out in suicide squad, the end of bvs heavily implied some sort of relationship
>>68095980
>>68096057
Batman's argument about Superman seems kind of funny if you think about how many legitimate authorities that had the same argument about Batman.
Granted Batman can't kill every human on the planet, but he could do some serious damage with the hardware he's got.
>>68096596
i imagine the relationship with batman as a forced by necessity type of thing, i think it's referenced in bvs when clark implies the police is in on it
and batman is in no way a planet wide existential threat, which i kind of wish got played around with more, the idea that people would be fucking terrified of him
