Why did so many people miss the point of the First Order? If you complain that they weren't "badass" enough, you didn't get it. The whole deal with the First Order is that they're a bunch of fucking losers, the children of the Empire's rejects pretending they're the big bad Empire so they can feel better about themselves
>Kylo Ren is a faggot with parental abandonment issues, who's pretending to be Darth Vader in order to feel more intimidating and make up for his own insecurity and self-loathing
>Hux is a prissy armchair general with no actual experience who delivers impassioned hitler speeches to indoctrinated masses who can't do anything but applaud him to boost his own self-confidence
>Phasma looks cool and talks a big game, she bitches at Finn for not conforming and not following orders but she's actually a coward who surrenders the second someone points a gun at her
I thought they were fucking great villains. After the prequels and EU tried to make the dark side look glamorous, a bunch of villains who are weak and impotent people, only dangerous because they have huge fucking guns, was a nice change of pace. The Dark Side was never meant to be reasonable or "badass" like Darth Maul made you believe.
>>68021318
(You)
Incompetence doesn't fit good villains.
You have a really good point, I hope they go down thi road in the coming movies. Rich-loser type villains tend to be the best.
>>68021379
They don't lack danger. They're capable of killing people, they wiped out the capital of the galaxy. They're just not meant to be reasonable or glamorous
The First Order is literally what "The Empire did nothing wrong" fags would create if they tried to imitate the Empire
>>68021379
This. What OP says may even be true but that still won't make weak or silly villains impress people
>>68021379
>>68021474
This is a 12 year old's view of antagonists
Hux is best villain
>>68021598
In a movie targeted at children, having incompetent villains is nothing to brag about.
>>68021697
Really? because I feel like a villain that would appeal to 12 year olds is a Darth Maul type, someone who looks badass but has absolutely nothing to him as a character
The one weakness of TFA is ironically that it didn't contain enough politics
You end the film not knowing how large the First Order is, you don't know what the balance of power is between them and the Republic. Does the First Order control 1% of the galaxy or 10%, nobody knows. Does the destruction of 5 republic planets mean a crippling blow to the republic or is is a minor setback. What is the comparative size of each factions army?
I don't know what to feel
>>68021724
There's a middle ground of a villain who appeals to all age groups. A whiny faggot is not that villain.
>>68021598
No matter how badly you liked Kylo Ren because he's like you, on an instinctual level people cannot fear him or characters like him (e.g. lady stormie) so he won't be effective whether or not you think he should be
>>68021318
Of course, it's propaganda against right-wing young men. Pretty indisputably so.
>>68021318
I saw this kino 12 times in the cinéma
>The whole deal with the First Order is that they're a bunch of fucking losers
They built a bigger and badder death star right under everyone's noses that wiped out an entire solar system and accomplished far more than both death stars in the original trilogy ever dreamed of. Hell, they easily accomplished more in that moment than the villains did in all six other movies. Doesn't exactly fit with their image of being fucking losers.
>>68021797
nobody cares about stupid fictional space politics.
>>68021318
I'm going to see this kino 12 times in the cinema!
I'm going to see this YIFY 12 times in the VLC!
>>68022043
Theyre the neo nazi school shooters to the Empire's SS, but IN SPACE
They subscribe to an outdated, evil ideology in order to make up for their own personal shortcomings and violently lash out at everyone else because thats all they CAN do
>>68021318
imagine the outrage if kylo was a black or some other "person" of colour
>>68022043
No one cares about any of that shit. The filmmakers didn't make you feel any of the weight that those things should have had. They told us the FO had done it, and showed us planets getting blown up in CG, but it was hollow. That's why people call the new movie a fanfic- all kinds of crazy shit can happen but that doesn't mean it has to impress the audience if it's not effectively done
>>68021318
>The whole deal with the First Order is that they're a bunch of fucking losers
>I thought they were fucking great villains
That's a retarded enough opinion that I don't believe even TFA apologists legitimately believe it. Though I am looking forward to episode 8 where rey ascends to godhood and kills the new order by glaring at their star system in the first 5 minutes so we can watch a movie about her internal struggles instead of yet another cliched "the protagonist has to overcome obstacles brought about by external forces for the sake of drama" flick.
>>68022096
this
Why is the first order so rich then? they had enough money to build a death star thing inside a freaking planet. It is never explained that this is cheap so I assume it's not.
>>68022189
Because obi wan sitting in a chair was so effective
>>68021379
With the exception of Phasma, they weren't necessarily incompetent. A lot of people who rose to power in history weren't perfect. Villains don't have to be either.
>>68022227
Heh, yes. The same way a king sitting in a chair is effective. He could out-act everyone in TFA if you were hearing him through a wall
>>68021797
We didn't need boring senate scenes, exactly, but we needed more info on the setting. ANH could get away without pontificating on the significance of the Empire because, as the completely fresh start of a story, it didn't matter. VII is a direct sequel, though, and the lack of any real information on how we got from there to here is grating. Even on its own terms we needed a bit more.
It's far from the only problem with TFA, but it is an irritating one.
I think you missed the part where this was a tv directors hacky and low as possible budget prototype
Vincent Vega is an example of an ineffective villain done right. TFA just has a mind-numbing retread of scenes found in the OT without even padding it with punctuation.
http://www.amc.com/talk/2008/05/the-10-least-ef
>>68022544
The movie was made for $200+ million and has the best special effects in the business. What are you smoking?
>>68021318
Kasdan said in an interview that he and JJ asked themselves what it would be like if the Nazis had gone to Argentina and regrouped after WWII.
From birth, Jews are raised with this idea that homogeneous white societies will inevitably result in goose-stepping, ethnic cleansing, and warmongering. And I could understand that outlook if history had begun in 1930. But the truth is, whites are the most egalitarian and least barbaric group in human history.
That's what frustrates many of us when Jewish Hollywood sensibilities become accepted norms. They're slanted, prejudiced and their bias goes unchallenged by everyone.
The First Order was a Jewish take on ultimate evil. And because modern Jews are obsessed with The Shoah and WWII everything magically relates to MUH SIX MILLION.
It has gotten boring. It's stale. I wish we could get a more nuanced view of evil, but that won't happen because show-biz Jews always find a way of politicizing everything.
Like, recently I saw a movie set in 1920s London. There were sevearl shots of a black man and a white woman walking as a couple in the street. It was there to sell us something. It was out of place and revisionist. It's tacky and it's condescending.
The objective is to shape public opinion with the assumption that everyone needs "educating" and are too dumb to pick up on the flagrant advertising of their agenda. In this case, it was a short throwaway scene and it still took me out of the movie. The message is basically, "You're too dumb to find the right opinions by yourself, so we're going to give you direction by placing certain things in the media you consume."
SJW placement just seems dishonest and manipulative. Flagrant product placement annoys me whether it's a product I like or not. It takes me out of the ride that it should be, pauses everything to remind me what I'm supposed to think, and then expects me to jump back in with full enthusiasm.
>>68022234
Hoping she gets better in the next movies.
She's gonna have it in for Finn now, hoping there will be a big fight
>>68022043
>build a better and bigger Death Star
>small port is still able to blow up the whole planet.
Maybe the empire needs new engineers instead of sith... Or just a sith engineer that has a glowing wrench
The Force Awakens is basically what we've been exposed too for the past decade and a half in pop culture sitcoms like How I Met Your Mother or Family Guy, all reminding us how awesome the original Star Wars trilogy is without delivering any new real content in case of scaring away old fans and alienating people, you might say it was one, long overdrawn Conway Twitty joke only to go nowherr in the end, The Phantom Menace took risks and was bold in this regard, one of the reasons it is a better movie but also a disaster, a disaster but a fun one. The Force Awakens is a boring, dull exposition movie filled with the worst type of pop culture references we've seen so many times over and is a chore to watch because there is no heart or soul with it due to being nothing more than a cash in gimmick on the current flavour of the decade growing faux nerd culture trend. JJ Abrams is not a movie or film directorm he is a business man, who only knows how to market products, which is why he was perfect for the reboot by Disney and shame on Abrams for just tacking on Han's death to stop it being a forgettable movie we all figured it would be.
>>68022603
The only reason youd be offended by the first order is if you actually hold white supremacist or antisemitic views
>>68022642
Well at least this time it kind of made sense. They blew up the oscillator containing the thermal energy inside the planet, it wasnt just a hole there for no reason
>>68022603
>It has gotten boring. It's stale. I wish we could get a more nuanced view of evil, but that won't happen because show-biz Jews always find a way of politicizing everything.
There may have been Nazi inspirations as per usual but there also seemed to have been some more modern ones for the First Order, who seemed to be a lot of angry young men vying for power all based on ideology and a worship of some idealized past. Not too far from neo-Nazis (which is its own thing away from Nazis so not necessarily rehashed) but also, theoretically, groups like ISIS.
>>68022581
It was either laundered or transferred to Episode VIII. The whole thing looks like shadow puppet theater.
https://youtu.be/uYSt8K8VP6k
>>68022738
>but also, theoretically, groups like ISIS.
if that was the intention they would have showed the republic invading imperial states and drilling for oilanium after someone drove a star destroyer into coruscant.
>>68022658
As I said, I'm offended by being force fed in regards to what to think.
Everyone should be.
>>68022841
Yes but there's a lot of shit left unexplained in TFA, I'm hoping they'll expand on it more at some other time. They rushed through everything.
>>68022804
no it doesn't
>>68022658
>you must be antisementic
GTFO
>>68021724
Darth Maul appeals to people who value silence over words, movement over quips. Fans of 'absolute' kinography
nothin personnel kid, but you have a lot to learn
>>68021318
You're right about the First Order being a bunch of losers, they're a bunch of crazy idiots with big fucking guns. That doesn't make them interesting villains though. It just makes them cartoon bad guys that are hard to love.
You want an actual good villain that isn't solely designed to impress simpletons such as yourself? Try Palpatine. Now there's a guy who is not only a master ruseman and politician, but also a man of art/culture. A fan of opera & ballet, enjoys life and absolutely loves being evil. A true career man, leading a stressful double life. It really paid off for him in the end, at least for a while. The galaxy was at peace and he had reached the height of conceivable human achievement.
The First Order are /co/-tier bad guys for /v/edditors who deal in absolutes and want simple braindead irony and ""conflicts"" in their simple meme movies
>>68022957
I'll give you this, you really made me laugh. Not many posts do.
JewJew created the first order to get back at anti jews which is why he made then seem so weak. Quite paeththic on his part and the reason why I won't see this film.
>>68022946
>muh Jewish boogeyman
>>68022957
this
>>68022946
that doesn't mean they work together though
>>68023025
How are simple facts and reality a boogeyman?
>>68023025
Hitler was a dindu and jews are the devil. Am I /pol/ now?
>>68021318
>I thought they were fucking great villains.
Yeah I guess if you're into stories where there is no real sense of threat and the heroes overcome all obstacles easily.
>>68023137
1% of the U.S. population controlling 90%+ of Hollywood and news media (and banking) is not a coincidence, famalam.
>>68023343
No, that image portraits its the jews who control all that shit. But it doesn't say the jews gather and scheme. Maybe the jews are like christians and just don't collaborate with each ot her.
>>68021318
Sheev is the definition of badass
>>68021318
Kylo is one of those rare villains where they actually improve as a character by being a fuckup. He idolises Vader so hard but looks at his legend with rose tinted glasses. He thinks what he knows about Anakin/Vader is the truth and tries to emulate that, but he's nowhere near having the controlled rage. Instead he throws tantrums.
Vader would not have approved
>>68021437
its like /tv/ stannisfags suddenly were transported to Westoros and attempted to fight for what he died for. it would be cringy and baka
>>68021379
Incompetence doesn't fit good heroes either, but that doesn't stop you cunts defending the prequels.
>>68022957
It was actually quite interesting how Palpatine had a dual-identity as a villain, and not a hero. He's a top shelf vampire, having easy access to the best of both worlds.
In contrast, Rey is essentially Super-girl and the Order are just belligerents.
>>68022191
>"the protagonist has to overcome obstacles brought about by external forces for the sake of drama" flick.
you mean every movie ever? havd you ever even seen a movie? That's the fucking point of it
>>68023743
Surely you legitimately care about that and use it as a talking point to argue that the prequels are bad instead of just trying to drag discussion about the new movies away from actual points and towards ad hominem.
>>68023920
Not after rey explodes all racists and sexists with her mind. After that we will see a brand new genre of kino.
>>68021318
>they sucked, that's what made them good
this is the stupidest logic.
>>68024712
Theyre not cool, because star wars was never about glorifying the bad guys you knob
>>68022188
imagine if Rey and Ben Ren were reversed roles.
>>68024890
They made 6 movies about how awesome darth vader is
>>68024890
Man, you're just full of all sorts of dumb opinions
>>68024967
muh dick when the interrogation scene starts
>>68024967
Hot either way.
>>68024995
Darth Vader hated what he had become and the story ends with his redemption
Sorry you think video games are real star wars
>>68024712
How do they suck? There's more to a character than how competent he is. It's not like they aren't still dangerous.
>>68021318
>Bunch of losers
>great villains
Not if you want tension.
>>68025527
name ONE video game about darth vader
pro tip: you literally can't
>>68025590
but anon they wanted wanton destruction and nothing else! they had no goals or desires other than to blow stuff up! this means they are so f*cking great!
plus there are sequels so just wait 5 more years until everything is finished and out before you judge them ;^)
>>68025612
You play as Vader in TFU
My point is that actual mary sue characters like Revan and Kyle Katarn have made some idiots think the dark side is a viable alternative when the whole point in the original series is that it was the quick and easy path for weak/evil people
>>68025703
>just wait 5 more years until everything is finished and out before you judge them
this is what I fucking hate the most, god I fucking hate this
every movie should function well enough on it's own
for example, you don't do stupid shit like add the luke clip at the end of TFA. That's so fucking disgusting. It's like a confusing, badly composed photograph
>>68025714
Revan is a precise example that the dark side is not a viable alternative, it's just an alternative. Viability is a matter of perspective.
it does allow you to finish the game as a "bad guy", but it's just a gameplay feature in essence. Video games are toys that require playability and functionality in order to be fun. They're not art.
Kyle Katarn is not a bad guy either, last time I checked. He did his own stuff for a while and ended up as a trainer on Yavin 4, preparing future jedi students.
>>68025819
Do you hate ESB for leaving Han's fate unknown?
>>68026047
>Kyle Katarn is not a bad guy either, last time I checked. He did his own stuff for a while and ended up as a trainer on Yavin 4, preparing future jedi students.
Kyle Katarn switched sides a billion times and says in Jedi Academy "powers arent good or bad, its how you use them" hes the "grey jedi" EU fags love so much
>>68026054
I don't hate ESB, I remember it having a nice ending shot aboard a space ship where Luke had his hand fixed and they were staring into space. Not my favorite episode, but not a bad one. If they had shown a small additional clip with Boba transporting Han somewhere or have someone be ready to do something and not finish it, I probably wouldn't like it. It would ruin the harmony.
>>68021797
How big is the Empire according to the OT? Where's the scene that lays that out?
Guys, fiction isn't about being a documentary on something that didn't happen. This was a movie about two young people finding the ability to act on what they believe in, in a place under the oppression of those who actively try to keep people from finding their selves.
You people are being willfully ignorant. Just say you didn't like it. Don't make up stories about how the movie is fundamentally broken just because you missed the point.
>>68026054
Han isn't the main character
>>68027001
>b-b-but guys if i make up things about the OT maybe you'll like this bad movie more
>sh-show me were the empire was an empire!
>see that means you're all wrong and my opinions are right!
seriously, fuck off kid
>>68027001
The very first scene - Big massive star destroyer chasing little rebel ship. It didn't need any more, you already knew the Rebels are the plucky underdogs, the Empire is the authoritarian giant.
In TFA, the resistance are a small arm of the Republic, which is somewhere and may no longer exist, and the first order is some significant threat of unknown size, either they're al-Queda or they're the Soviet Union. We don't know.
>"fucking losers"
>Can erase entire star systems like it's nothing
I want the rebel defense force shills to go
>>68021318
>we want the allegiance audience...
>>68028166
This. Besides, the fact VII is a direct sequel makes its responsibilities regarding conveying the setting different, since it should explain how things have changed.
>>68027001
Right here you cocksucking faggot
https://youtu.be/Zzs-OvfG8tE
>>68022603
>>68021318
>a bunch of losers
>BTFOs the entire republic
Ok.
The movie was fucking dumb.
>>68022603
Though they may have based the First Order on ODESSA, in a modern context the FO is far more similar to ISIS. A group made of brainwashed zealots formed in part by the political vacuum following a failed state/overturn of said state.
>>68029476
Normies shroud themselves in an unfalsifiable aura of moral superiority and biased value judgement so that even when they get btfo they're still winners at heart.
