Rey was called hey Mary Sue for being badass with no explanation given. The trailer goes out of its way to explain that she's been to badadd since she was 15. will she still be called Mary Sue?
>>67997318
You're posting this on /tv/. You're gonna get a lot of 'yes'.
It could work, but I highly doubt it after TFA. She'll be good at everything and people like this >>67997345 will somehow defend it. Just because they tell you the character can do anything, doesn't make it OK unless they're like a literal god in movie.
>>67997318
It's a different director and the story isn't about her. It's about stealing the death star plans. TFA was about Rey with a side story of blowing up starkiller. I have a feeling Jones will die
>>67997456
She needs to have some vice that affects her choices and personality, not just some tacked on "drinking problem" that doesn't affect her at all.
>>67997456
>Implying rey isn't an avatar of the force sent down to right the wrongs of the imposter man made force jesus and his offspring.
>>67997456
Here we go!
>>67997456
Well said. We need to remove the sjw and the cucks from /tv/.
It doesn't matter if they have explanation or not, if she doesn't struggle one bit throughout the entire movie then she is a Mary Sue.
I also hate this whole loose cannon cliche bullshit with her.
>You're a loose cannon, but you're the only hope for this mission
>inb4 give me your badge and your blaster
>>67997318
More importantly, will she /ss/ with a teenage Luke and become pregnant with Rey?
she looks like a better actor, so all grievances are forgiven
>>67997318
Rey had a bad ass but i believe felicity has DAT ASS
"I rebel"
what did she mean by this?
>>67997456
So then what's the explanation for all the male action movie characters that are godlike in skill (ex. John whick, the transporter, anything with Tom Cruis). My argument against people claiming these characters are also Mary Sue's has always been that they're badass skills has always been an explined or established somehow. unlike Reys which was completely inexplicable... are you saying people will bitch just for the sake of bitching?
>>67997930
something about getting piercings and then getting BLACKED by that guy daddy hates
>>67997318
>I rebel
The dialogue alone in the teaser pretty much confirms that she will be a mary sue.
>>67997991
rey's retarded plot armor force asspulls with no mental or spiritual training are contrary to the previous depiction of the force. make however many dumb action heros you want in universes where they're not contradicting what came before
>>67997318
>She's female
What do you think anon
>>67997318
People say that a Mary Sue is being unreasonably perfect with no explanation, but it isn't. Right in the example of a Mary Sue in the wikipedia article it says, "the youngest and smartest person to ever graduate from the academy...a master of everything...including karate"
It doesn't matter if there's a stupid excuse for why they're so unrealistically perfect. It's hack writing 101 either way.
>>67998196
So Batman?
>>67997873
damn...
>>67997726
you mean, luke meets up with her and evaporates her moisture?
>>67997991
It always comes down to execution and characters like John Wick and Ethan Hunt are better executed. People can suspend their disbelief for them because within the scope of their universe they don't seem to break everything, it makes sense, but it's impossible with a character like Rey. She's a teenager that before the movie started, was scrounging around in dumpsters, not some retired veteran assassin that was feared within the criminal underworld. OK maybe, she really is just good at everything. She can even play the piano, even though she's never touched one. Maybe that's the case, but that's just shit writing.
>>67998376
Part of the problem for Rey's character is the fact that they never go into her background.
Maybe in the sequels they will reveal she was a master jedi or something and then got mind wiped.
But all we do know is that she's an orphan scavenger that he defeat a guy that has been training as a jedia for years in a lightsaber battle.
It's just dumb.
>>67998376
Yeah audiences aren't used to female characters. We've gotta have more evidence to believe in a character. Look at Luke, he was subtly hinted to be a pilot throughout the entirety of ANH. There was not too much suspension of disbelief IMO, but with Rey, even with prior knowledge, seems way too unbelievable.
However, I think this new character won't be a Mary Sue. There's just not enough evidence. I really hope she isn't, as I really don't mind a male or female lead. I like teams of people more, and I hope they focus on that next trailer.
>Read the YouTube comments
>People are actually getting tired of female protagonists now
What changed? Do you agree?
>>67997318
I can't wait to not see this. My faggot fucking brother roped me into seeing the other piece of shit and it was awful. I will give this a wide fucking birth.
>>67998521
Luke was shooting small targets with a Skyhopper and didn't fight Darth Vader in IV. He was believable protagonist.
>>67998478
Well that's Abram's fault. They can still redeem her character. Tthey can easily do it in another few movies, but there's never gonna be good excuse for it in TFA even if they just came out and said, well Rey, we had the technology. We had the capability to make the world's first perfect being. Well then you should've alluded to it a little, JJ.
>>67998256
Batman trained all around the world and has lots of money. He's not a Gary Stu.
>>67998376
Agreed 100% about Rey, but the question on the Jyn. The trailer is presenting her as some one who had a rough and violent past who has had Run in with the Empire etc. It seems like laying the groundwork to make her believable in the scope of this universe. Even if as you say they execute the character well enough like John Wick or Ethan Hunt, will there still be charges of Mary Sue up and down this board?
>>67998782
>Even if as you say they execute the character well enough like John Wick or Ethan Hunt,
She won't be. She's a skinny pretty white girl pretending to be a badass. Nobody will buy into that. At least Rey wasn't pretending to be a "rebel".
>will there still be charges of Mary Sue up and down this board?
Why do you care nigger? Hurt feelings or something?
>>67998712
>the youngest and smartest person to ever graduate from the academy...a master of everything...including karate"
Sounds like Batgod to me.
It doesn't matter if there's a stupid excuse for why they're so unrealistically perfect. It's hack writing 101 either way
>>67998697
Frankly making her a mary sue could even make sense from a narrative perspective iff they do the whole 'rey and ren switch alignments' thing.
The plot armor from the bad script/directing/choreography in her marey sue scenes is just so shitty and blatant that it makes people not even want to give it a chance. Like if you want to make marey some kind of force prodigy at least do it in a way that doesn't make the villain a joke. Also the fact that they were so copy paste and pandering makes it seem less likely that they actually will do something narratively competent with her.
>>67998869
>Why do you care nigger? Hurt feelings or something?
I like having discussions about film characters with people who share similar interests. This particular topic has been relevant lately and I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on it have a better understanding of it for myself.
>>67999052
No offense newfriend, but wanting to have discussion on 4chin is quite retarded. There a few good discussions that happens here very once in a while, but the majority of this place is pure shitposting.
>>67997318
>Rey was called hey Mary Sue for being badass with no explanation given
That's one reason among many given.
>>67998533
kek, fucking female protagonists killed Star Wars
>inb4 the jews
you pigs just want her to be vulnerable so you can feel like you're a big man that can protect your little waifu. disgusting.
>>67998679
This.
Luke was a whiny kid all throughout episode 4 and didn't know shit.
Theres a difference to turning off a targeting computer and believing in the force at the crux of the movie, than fixing every problem you come across, mind tricking a stormtrooper to escape prison, and then beating the badguy at his own game.
>>67999254
I would protect the shit out of her, if you know what i mean.
>>67998533
It's because its been forced rather than feeling natural.
Rey was the beginning in that she was just John Cena in space, defeated everyone, didn't get a scratch on her, had no challenges to speak of etc.
Meanwhile Leia is still a good example because she was just pissed off Princess and was working with whatever she was dealt with and was usually knee deep in shit with no powers to speak of.
It's just we've always had decent female characters, but now everyone is screaming they never existed I don't fucking know it's a god damn mess
Is this going to be another /pol/ thread?
>>67998533
it's that they are always prefect. Both Luke and Anakin both had had issues they weren't prefect.
>>67998884
I don't disagree, but at least it feels more believable.
>>67999271
And the character that did "defeat" Vader in IV was Han Solo who was a very skilled pilot.
>>67999127
Like panning for gold.
>>67999360
When is it not?
>>67997726
>>67998326
She will probably rape him or something.
>>67997726
Ages wouldn't match up desu
>>67997318
I would love having a Mary Sue around doing all kinds of shit for me. Not even sexual. Fixing the car, chasing away the bullies, knowing all the good pot dealers, earning money for both of us. There is literally nothing she can't do.
>>68000179
>implying you don't just want felicity jones around you at all timedon't worry senpai, I want the same thing
>>68000179
everyone wants that bro. it's nothing new. unfortunately in america, you must be the one that does all that for the women. i'm pretty sure cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids, etc. are expected of the man too, not the woman.
>>68000273
Well that's mostly true. My wife also says that since I get to hang out with my pals after work, she gets to visit her sister on the weekends. Thing is, I've never seen her sister before, nor was she at the wedding. Even her parents confirmed with me that she's an only child.
>>68000339
>>67999360
It will be
>>68000273
>this is what America has come to
Streuth. I have a pretty based relationship with gf, where no one is dominant or superior.
Banter is top notch
Sex is fun...
The hell is happening to you Yanks?
Male protagonist is badass
>That dude is EPIC! What an amazing character! I wish I was him!
Female protagonist is badass
>MARY SUE MARY SUE SJWS RUINING EVERYTHING WWUEEEAAAAHH!!!!!
>>68000749
The price of freedom is high.
>>67997318
/tv/'s definiton of Mary Sue is "adventure protagonist that is not male." So yes. She will be called a Mary Sue.
>>67999248
>kek, fucking female protagonists killed Star Wars
sure they did
>>68001210
/tv/ MRAs blown the FUCK out
>>68000845
>Yanks
>Freedom
Oh lad
>>68001455
>tfw you don't have the freedom to get blown up by terrorists
>>68001491
oh that one is too easy.
>>67999254
This
>>67997318
>will she still be called Mary Sue?
Yes because she is a woman
>>67997991
>Comparing a retired career assassin from a good movie which spends time building his up his character's reputation as the best in his film's canon
>to a not even padawon who inexplicably learns nearly every aspect of beig a Jedi without any training or experience precisely in time to forward the plot of her shitty movie.
>>68001688
>padawan
lol
>>67997991
Let's be real here, anything with Tom Cruise in it is a FLICK
A fucking FLICK
The one role he did well in was Edge of Tomorrow and he starts that movie as a useless, cowardly, underhanded journalist who wants to promote propaganda while being as far from battle as possible.
>>68001688
John Wick is Mary Sue as fuck dude. Having all the characters endlessly talk about how badass and unstoppable he is is a hallmark of the trope.
>>67997318
I don't get it. She is the protagonist of a movie... Why wouldn't she be badass? It would be a pretty shitty movie if she didn't do anything.
>>68001804
You must be new here. Protagonists are only allowed to be badass if they're men. If they're women it's part of an international conspiracy of fat jewish women to culturally neuter men. Duh.
>>68001750
What is even your point? Not to mention, are you kidding me? Edge of Tomorrow is certainly not his best role.
>>68001891
I'm saying that yes those are all terrible movies because the men don't go through any struggle at all. If the character doesn't face legitimate conflict then the movie was a flick. It's a traditional hallmark of a flick.
No conflict = power fantasy
>>68001804
It's generally accepted that the more useless the protagonist character is the better the film
>Transformers: Teen is somehow able to help turn the tides in a war between giant machines. Terrible.
>Castaway: Tom Hanks uselessly languishes on an island for years. Masterpiece.
>>68001891
You're right, I forgot about his performance in Rain Man. That was kino.
>>67997318
If the rest of her team are allowed to be badass and maybe *gasp* save her once in a while then she shouldn't be called a Mary Sue.
>>68001882
Nice b8
>>68001921
It's not as bad as in TFA because they had dumb action movie universes they live in. In TFA marey is a dumb action movie hero except she does it while shitting on a universe that previously established the force as something that took mental dedication and spiritual subtlety. Then she comes along and the force is just a videogame powerup to bail her ass out of shitty writing.
>>67997991
>John Whick
Lol did you actually see the fucking film? Here's a short little explanation for you
>Badass doesn't have to equal untouchable
That's what makes all the character's you listed actually "Badass", They excel in their universe, but they're also shown to get dealt a fair deal of punches
Shit like Lucy where it's literally
>Shoots everyone through the wall
>Know everything that's going to happen
>Doesn't get a single scratch on them
that's the boring shit, that's why people don't like Rey, because despite her being inexplicably "gifted", most of the time she came to the cusp of injury but was never really injured.
>>68001921
I still don't see your point tho. OK, you consider them flicks. I guess if you're what you're saying, is that any character from a 'flick' is a Mary Sue, then OK, we have nothing more to discuss.
>>67997318
Probably. She looks like sassy Mc-generic face. Mon Mothma looks better, because she looks like an actual woman and not another hollywood starlet who got the job because she has good cheekbones and a nice ass.
>>68001921
>If the character doesn't face legitimate conflict then the movie was a flick.
But the problem you people seem to struggle to understand is that narrative conflict generally SHOULD NOT be rooted in their struggle to overcome the literal challenges. The protagonist is almost always guaranteed to win the movie, and everyone knows that. They're well-written when there's a bigger subtextual challenge to overcome. John McClane had to overcome problems with his wife, and also a bunch of terrorists. TDK trilogy Batman had to overcome is issues with fear in BB, chaos in TDK, and pain in TDKR. The literal story they need to overcome should be in service of the underlying themes.
"Legitimate conflict" in TFA wasn't Rey's ability to "not die," it was about Rey overcoming her character flaws and fear of moving forward.
And quit trying to act like the pedantic /tv/ definitions of synonyms for "moving picture" are some academic truth. A flick is a film is a movie.
>>68002300
>narrative conflict generally SHOULD NOT be rooted in their struggle to overcome the literal challenges. The protagonist is almost always guaranteed to win the movie, and everyone knows that.
That's fucking retarded. If you want to make a movie about marey's 'muh parents' then make some shitty oscar bait about a girl and her struggles growing up after being abandoned.
If you want to include action scenes or situational tension in your movie then make them not garbage where the protagonist pulls some dues ex machina out of their ass because she's not allowed to be weak or dependent.
>>68002153
>They excel in their universe, but they're also shown to get dealt a fair deal of punches
Rey is exploded multiple times, thrown through the air into a tree, kidnapped, tortured, and otherwise constantly struggling to NOT DIE for the entire movie.
>that's why people don't like Rey,
/tv/ isn't really people.
>because despite her being inexplicably "gifted"
protagonist in a star wars movie.
>most of the time she came to the cusp of injury but was never really injured.
Sustaining obvious injury isn't some requirement for a protagonist, and is the most superficial horseshit way to show "conflict," particularly when the injury never actually matters. Indiana Jones gets regularly punched in the face with little to no lasting effect. Why is that better writing?
>>68002448
>protagonist in a star wars movie.
no weakness action hero in a star wars movie that previously had more depth even if sjws pretend otherwise
>>68001779
Except that was the entire point of the movie.
>Oh shit we fucked with the wrong guy
Rey is just ahh shucks mr solo I know more about your beloved ship than you do, watch me mind trick this guy without any prior knowledge that I'm a force user or that mind tricks are even a thing.
>>67997318
She will be a Mary Sue and the movie will be shit.
But it will be massively advertised and it will easily brake a billion.
>>68002437
Are you drunk?
>>67997677
>rey never struggled in tfa
Please tell me I've read too far into your post.
>>68002543
>action movies are supposed to have shit action scenes that lack any consistency and therefore satisfaction when they're resolved because they're actually allegorical
no u dumb troll
On 4chan? Yup.
so where is rey , why did the empire revert to old clone troopers ? ?
these movies kee churning out waifus
>>68002505
>Rey is just ahh shucks mr solo I know more about your beloved ship than you do, watch me mind trick this guy without any prior knowledge that I'm a force user or that mind tricks are even a thing.
Best part about posts like this one is how easy it makes it to find the brain dead parrots.
>>68002697
>>68002697
How about you actually critique me and show me where I'm wrong then Captain Reddit, instead of just going "LOL You're dumb"
>>68003055
Cause you've heard anything I'd say before, you just don't care.
>>68002595
That has nothing to do what you quoted. Oh and I side with you about Rey. She's a Sue, not because she has such a diverse skillset she uses to overcome her problems, but purely because the poor execution of Rey, the character, lends itself to such criticism. That's what it always comes down to, how do you execute your character in a manner where people aren't double taking and questioning internal consistencies like they are with Rey. No, a character being phrased in a movie does not make a Mary Sue. A character having mastery over a trade is not a Mary Sue. A character that does not have a long laundry list of issues is not a Mary Sue. If this were the case, we're pretty much surrounded by Mary Sues, in which case, I don't even see why people care to bring up the issue.
>>68001688
The comparison was to Jyn not Rey.
>>68001804
Again not about Rey, This is about the Rouge One protagonist.
>>68003545
>T-there's no point, y-you don't care
So you're wong
>>68002103
I thought it was the amount of metaprobiotics in your bloodstream
>>68003704
>rey using the force as a video game powerup isn't the only jarring alteration to how the force was originally portrayed in a dumb sequel even though it contradicts the originals and doesn't just augment them in a weird way
glowing endorsement
>>68003549
you said action scenes in action movies didn't have to produce tension or interesting conflict because they were just allegorical for bigger struggles. i said that's stupid and that if you want a movie based on personal struggles without interesting action scenes then just make a movie about that. but if you want to make an action movie make the action not shit.
>>68003895
I didn't say anything because that wasn't my post.
I don't know we're even discussing this when we know the supporting cast is going to steal the show anyway.
Are the odds less than 5% of the character actually dicking over the rebellion to live a cushy life in the Empire when the heat gets too hot?
>>68003680
>if you don't prove it, you're wrong
That's not how reality works you social constructivist piece of shit.
But here we go, you got me fucknut.
>Rey is just ahh shucks mr solo I know more about your beloved ship than you do
She knows about one thing and it happened while Han hadn't had the ship for years. You'd have to have an agenda to try to work this into Rey being so superior to Han, and reading way too far into it to turn into support that she's a mary sue. What the fuck is wrong with her knowing about the compressor? It's a non-issue. Are you gonna tell me no one has ever told you it's completely reasonable she knows about that part and it in no way lowers Han's statue in the universe?
>watch me mind trick this guy without any prior knowledge that I'm a force user
She just read Kylo's mind in the last scene. I think she knows she has the force. I can see how the vision might not occur to her as her being able to use the force, but her pushing back against Kylo definitely is. Are you gonna tell me no one has ever explained her interrogation with Kylo as showing her she has the force and the force does mind stuff before?
>or that mind tricks are even a thing
How do you know that? How do you know what Rey knows? She knows who Luke is, she's picked up languages from dealing with traders, Han tells her the stories she's presumably heard are all true and the force is real. And like I said earlier, Kylo was just using the force to make her give up information. She's just trying to use the force to get the stormtrooper to do something. Are you gonna tell me no one has ever brought up to you that she's heard about Jedi and even the Rebellion before?
Like I said you've heard all this before. You need to hate TFA and Rey because of your stances on feminism and shit, the reasoning behind your complaints comes after the decision to hate it because of its associations. You're waging a symbolic war here, you might as well just be upfront about your motivations.
>>68002103
>that took mental dedication and spiritual subtlety
You mean believing it in? That's all you ever learn about the force onscreen the entire trilogy, just believe and everything will be fine. Anything else is about how to be a good, light sided Jedi and avoid corruption. Just using the force is always shown as a clap your hands if you believe situation in the OT.
>>67997991
>So then what's the explanation for all the male action movie characters that are godlike in skill (ex. John whick, the transporter, anything with Tom Cruis).
The movie sets them up as a badass. There's a clear, obvious distinction between these characters but you're gonna just delude yourself into not seeing it.
>Jon Wick
Set up from the very start as the best assassin in the game. Him being a bad ass is expected.
>Transporter
Set up to be the best at what he does. Him being a bad ass is expected.
>Tom Cruise
Again, he's always set up FROM THE START as being a badass. Best spy. Best pilot. etc.
The problem with Rey is that she was just a fucking scavenger for almost the entirety of her life yet she's capable of doing everything. If she came in halfway through the movie and had been set up as a badass jedi capable of doing anything, no one would have an issue with her. The problem is that none of her abilities, whether they be spaceship flying, mechanical prowess when all she does is rip broken ship from a crashed ship, or her sudden jedi powers come up before she needs them. She has a problem and suddenly she can solve it. Falcon is broken? LOL I JUST RIPPED THIS THINGY OUT THAT NOT EVEN HAN SOLO THOUGHT OF AND FIXED THE PROBLEM INSTANTLY LOL. What was I before this? A poor girl that sells shit for food with absolutely zero training :^)
>>68004042
>obiwan taught luke to use rudimentary space magic and yet luke didn't believe in it enough to pull his lightsaber to him
>yoda actively demonstrated amazing feats but luke still needed meditation and spiritual lessons to achieve his full potential because they made him believe what empirical observation could not
that's a pretty stupid and blatantly false interpretation.
>>68003999
>She knows about one thing
She very clearly knew about more than that. Did you completely forget that scene where they're patching trying to patch the gas leak? She seemed to know about Falcon right down to the details of its inner workings.
>She just read Kylo's mind in the last scene. I think she knows she has the force. I can see how the vision might not occur to her as her being able to use the force, but her pushing back against Kylo definitely is. Are you gonna tell me no one has ever explained her interrogation with Kylo as showing her she has the force and the force does mind stuff before?
Oh, okay. Fair enough that she can just do that with inexplicable ease on her first try.
>How do you know that? How do you know what Rey knows? She knows who Luke is, she's picked up languages from dealing with traders, Han tells her the stories she's presumably heard are all true and the force is real. And like I said earlier, Kylo was just using the force to make her give up information. She's just trying to use the force to get the stormtrooper to do something. Are you gonna tell me no one has ever brought up to you that she's heard about Jedi and even the Rebellion before?
You're right, that's a fair point. She may have heard that mind tricks are a thing at some point. So now she can do them. Just like that.
>Like I said you've heard all this before. You need to hate TFA and Rey because of your stances on feminism and shit, the reasoning behind your complaints comes after the decision to hate it because of its associations. You're waging a symbolic war here, you might as well just be upfront about your motivations.
That's a LOT of projecting and assumptions anon.
If we're going down that route, let me try. You just think Rey isn't a Mary-Sue because you want to watch her ride Finn's BBC while you jack off in the corner. That's how it works right?
>>67998712
But I thoughts you faggots were saying it doesn't matter if there's an explanation. He's a master at everything he tries.
>>67999515
It doesn't what you feel since you're clearly biased.
>>67998256
>>67998712
>>67998884
Batman isn't a Mary-Sue, he has plot armor. There's a difference.
Batman, when well written, is neurotic, paranoid, and borderline sociopathic. He has plot armor though because he can never lose because "hurr I'm batman" and the writers never let him.
>>68004389
if you want. but he also lives in a universe full of people who exceed his ability in many places thus making him do something creative or interesting to defeat them. rey just kind of sits around until the force makes her strong enough to win
>>67997991
Those are all trained professionals so their skills are justified. They struggle against other trained professionals. They have some sort of personal growth.
Rey was a fucking wageslave scavanger. How the fuck does she outfly two ties?
In the novel they explained it by saying that she salvaged a simulator. It's a bit of a weak explanation, but it makes sense.
The issue isn't core to Reys character, the issue is that J.J Abrams can't slow the fuck down and make time to explain shit.
>>68004141
I have no idea what you're trying to say. Speak plain.
>>68004204
>She very clearly knew about more than that.
Context anon. That gas leak has nothing to do with knowing more than Han Solo, which is what the topic was there. You're not paying attention and trying to have a different debate than the one I was posting.
>Fair enough that she can just do that with inexplicable ease on her first try.
First try? It wasn't her first try resisting Kylo, you'd assume she was trying as soon as he started. It wasn't her first time mind tricking, because she failed at it before it worked. Kylo also just told Snoke how strong she is in the force. You can not like that explanation but it doesn't make it not exist. You aren't even entirely wrong, but you exaggerate so much that it makes your statement full of holes. Just stop trying to be a dick that's so obviously correct and you might actually start being correct in what you post.
And you don't have to the whole, "oh your right, SARCASTIC ZINGER" bit. The force all through the OT only ever took believing. You think Luke practiced mind tricks x times a day in order to do it in Jedi? That's not how the force works. Yoda doesn't teach Luke what button combo does 'lift x-wing,' he teaches Luke that the force is beyond that exact kind of thinking. It's not "lift bigger and bigger rocks to work up to an x-wing."
Not only did you avoid the entire issue of you having heard this shit before, you straight to the cuckposting at the end. How is anyone supposed to take your position seriously when you spout that /pol/ shit at the end? It's funny you followed the part where you say I'm projecting and assuming with direct evidence I'm right. They were assumptions until you started in with your BBC sperg shit.
I just think you got some facts about this movie wrong and I'm the kind of autist that needs to correct people about that shit. You confirmed your in it as a stance against internet feminism.
>>68004781
your interpretation of the force as something you gain full access to for believing in it is stupid and wrong and the fact that it is not consistent with the two situations i mentioned is evidence of that
>>68004781
>It wasn't her first time mind tricking, because she failed at it before it worked
Once. Excellent growth. Confirmed for Mary-Sue for having to try a second time.
>And you don't have to the whole, "oh your right, SARCASTIC ZINGER" bit. The force all through the OT only ever took believing. You think Luke practiced mind tricks x times a day in order to do it in Jedi? That's not how the force works. Yoda doesn't teach Luke what button combo does 'lift x-wing,' he teaches Luke that the force is beyond that exact kind of thinking. It's not "lift bigger and bigger rocks to work up to an x-wing."
And yet Luke, who still seemed to believe whole heartedly in the force, required a great deal of training to be in semi-competent in most force abilities. Rey was just reminded about it and instantly became adept at it.
>Not only did you avoid the entire issue of you having heard this shit before, you straight to the cuckposting at the end. How is anyone supposed to take your position seriously when you spout that /pol/ shit at the end? It's funny you followed the part where you say I'm projecting and assuming with direct evidence I'm right. They were assumptions until you started in with your BBC sperg shit.
You're actually fucking retarded. I said that in direct response to your assertion that "He doesn't like Rey? MUST BE /POL/!" I can't believe that wasn't clear.
>>67997991
All of these are mainly action movies. Nobody even cares about the plot or the characters that much. It's a simple premise, so we accept it. There aren't many female action heroes of that kind because their sex puts them in a biological disadvantage and a woman defeating plenty of other men simply isn't believable, even in hyperbole.
>>67997318
Yes, because many on /tv/ want to be cucked by a big black man like finn, not some skinny white girl like rey.
>>68004887
Okay but you didn't explain anything about those situations so I still don't understand how they're supposed to so I'm wrong.
I'm not going to say mediation isn't hugely important in control and mastery, but Luke doesn't learn anything beyond 'don't trust your eyes' and 'let the force guide you' before he had at least that one example of superhuman laser blocking and supernatural Death Star aim. Luke fails to pull the lightsaber at first. It's after he calms and quiets himself that it works. This is exactly how Rey uses the mind trick. You have to "let go," of what the Han Solos of the galaxy think is how the universe works and believe than you can do it. It's that classic eastern philosophy shit george was mixing with christian faith when he was making the force.
I have no idea how you translate 'lifting an x-wing' to 'luke being shown his full potential.' You're taking extra steps. Yoda practically looks at the camera for this. Luke thought lifting the X-Wing was impossible, that's why he failed. That's straight forward as fuck, it's direct dialogue from Yoda. And even after all that, it's not like Luke secretly went off to Yoda between Empire and Jedi. The important things for the view's understand of the force is that you have to believe, that's what Yoda's training focuses on. Well and all the Jedi-only controlling your emotions stuff, but that's for being a good Jedi and clearly not a requisite just to use the force.
>>67997318
>with no explanation given.
Huh? She grew up in a pretty rough environment.
>>68004918
>Once.
Still factually incorrect. And you just having to include "mary sue" in your first line of text really spells it all out for me. Like I said I don't really care about the Mary Sue bit, after all this you can still think she's a Mary Sue. I just care about you being able to admit when you're wrong about things and to stop inflating your argument when you present it.
>Luke, who still seemed to believe whole heartedly in the force,
"I can't, it's too big." "You want the impossible." "I don't believe it."
That's why he failed. And Yoda's big lesson is to just lift the damn X-Wing.
>required a great deal of training to be in semi-competent in most force abilities.
Because he didn't believe. That's why the droid zapped him. That's why he failed to lift the X-Wing. But more importantly is this phrase you use, "a great deal of training." All Luke got was some words from Obi-Wan on the Falcon and a week or two with Yoda. All it takes to learn super jump is giving a muppet a piggy back ride. Force training is not this physical kind of training where you have to learn the special hand position or how to spring your calves to jump. It's believing you do superhuman things. Now obviously there's an element of mastery that takes time, but Luke uses basic force powers with dick all for training. Before TFA came out I seriously doubt you'd ever try to make the force that mundane, it's not like practicing a golf swing.
>>68005476
Yet Luke was deriding Han for not believing in it.
He believed in it enough to take his only shot at the Death Star without his targeting computer.
You're right that to properly use the force you need confidence in your abilities, but to assert that all you need to wield it effectively is believing in it/yourself is wrong. Luke clearly had that, yet he still required training to learn and hone his use of it.
What do you want to see in this movie?
>mfw boba fett appearance
>>68005635
Maybe I wasn't exactly clear but it's not just like "yes/no Do you believe in the force?" It's about believing in how you're trying to use it at the time. I thought that'd come across from specific mentions of training ball and x-wing but that's what I was going for.
That's why it's so important to remember Rey got mind fucked before mind fucking a stormtrooper and how she got throw telekinetically before telekinetically grabbing a lightsaber.
>>68005767
>That's why it's so important to remember Rey got mind fucked before mind fucking a stormtrooper and how she got throw telekinetically before telekinetically grabbing a lightsaber.
Rey is rogue from xmen it explains everything.
>>67997318
she won't be a mary sue, shes kind of bitchy and cool
rey is 100% mary sue tho
As someone who liked Rey (although she did get an unreasonable, suspense destroying power boast in the last half hour of the film), the teaser hasn't sold me on Felicity at all.
In fact from the glimpses we saw, she seems like the sort of flat character we stopped writing in the 90s. Those whose only defining characteristic is being badass and not playing by anybody's rules.
Hell they put the old "You're a loose cannon!" chestnut in the goddamn trailer.
If this was a guy and played by, dunno, Liam Hemsworth or Jai Courtney, I'd have about the same eye rolling reaction to that.
>>67997475
>It's a different director
Yeah, a worse one.
>>67997318
Rey wasn't a Mary Sue though.
>>68005814
Please tell me you aren't that same anon I was arguing with.
>>67997318
I don't get it. Rey defeated an unstable, confused Vader wannabe.
Jys will lead an important mission because she's a badass.
And who's the mary sue?
>>68005814
And that's why she doesn't want anyone to hold her hand! Holy shit there are layers here!
>>68005940
No but your arguments *are* stupid. The force is clearly something you need extended mental training to use in even minor ways. Rey did not need any practice or training, she just pulled off advanced force powers because she's a horribly written character who needs to asspull herself out of every situation herself.
>>68005987
The fact that she beat up Kylo didn't bother me much.
Kylo is supposed to be a sausage.
My problem is more with the force use stuff.
They really should have at least spaced that out a little.
She goes from little to no Force Use to being able to resist Kylo's mind reading (who is established to be good at that at least), push him back and read his mind and then teach herself a Jedi Mindtrick. All in the span of like 4 minutes.
I feel like this was a sloppy bit in the script.
Everything about the new direction Star Wars is being taken bothers me. The look and feel is literally like a copy paste of every generic super hero film lately. The shots are just so cliched and HYPER FAST ACTION! The camera angles, the stunts. I just cant believe they are passing this stuff off as Star Wars.
I fear once Star Wars Rebels ends, this is all we will have left for the future. More snarky modern day dialogue. Flawless women that are basically super heroes. Lazy by the books plots lifted from other unused scripts with STAR WARS plastered onto it.
>>67998533
I belive that largest part ofstar wars audience is male. Male audience will get bored quickly with female heroes, because we want to fantasise how we would be in their place and for most males that are heterosexual, kissing and hugging black males isnt the greatest daydream
>>68006089
>asterisks for emphasis
>The force is clearly something you need extended mental training to use in even minor ways.
Like when Luke had superhuman laser blocking ability, right?
Come on, I just explained how the force works over several posts and you're just gonna show up to say 'nope! without any explanation of why I'm wrong or how you know what you 'know'? How much did Luke practice blocking lasers before he pulled that off?
So let's cut the shit and get straight to the core of the issue. What do you think force training is? If you could just give me like 150 words about what specifically you think force training is, I think that'd save us a lot of time.
And how fucking cunty of you to not address my arguments, call them stupid, not support your own argument, and go full smug with Mary Sue shitposting? Try, just try to stay focused on the movies for two minutes and leave the posturing behind for one post. If you're physically able.
>>67997318
Who cares americucks and yurocucks will watch it even if she's a Mary Sue.
And this one will also make money in China because of Donnie Yen.
>>68006127
I always felt like he might not be that good as he didnt do it on people that were able to defend in any way. So he fucked up first time he tried that on a force sensitive victim.
take luke, he was able to dodge three blaster shots after ben told him to calm down... to me the speed of development is actually quite similar, but back then we didnt know what the force is neither. now every fan is like force monk, absorbing any information canon or non canon
>>68006186
I think pieces of shit like you forget that Star Wars is also very much a product of its time, with the sequels being full of 80s things. Then you're surprised and act like it's so evil of that a big nasty corporation to make a movie today like movies today are made and not like an 80s fantasy movie.
It's like you've decided to hate TFA and you'll come up with whatever nonsensical shit to support that position.
feminists are bitching on twitter that there is only ONE female lead in this movie.
>>68006127
You need to stop thinking in video game terms. There is no "mind trick" force power separate from mind reading and presence sensing. It's all just 'mind shit' the same way there isn't force push, pull, and saber throw but just 'telekinesis shit.'
>>68002685
crusty old white women
ewww gross
>>68006371
This is why you don't pander to fanatics.
They will always ask for more.
>>68006322
touched a nerve there eh? Star Wars was not a product of its time. It innovated. It did its own thing. Now its just a carbon copy of every other film coming out under the disney banner. Go swoon over at themarysue or wherever else you idiots came from and circle jerk how easily digestable, safe and proressive this Disney backed franchise era of films are. No one is impressed with the force awakens because it was NOT Star Wars. It was some bad impersonation with no identity of its own.
>>68006448
>touched a nerve there eh?
Yeah, you're full of yourself. That usually annoys be about people.
>Star Wars was not a product of its time.
>It innovated. It did its own thing.
Those two lines are not contradictory. This is what bugs me, so smug yet so stupid. Star Wars was reactionary to the movies of its time. That still makes it a product of its time and it still used very 70s effects and cuts. The second two where full of 80s influenced music, humor, and pacing. That you think the entire OT was constantly innovating only tells me you don't know anything about movies but instead love to parrot what documentaries about Star Wars have told you, causing you to romanticize them.
But no, don't make intelligent arguments with examples, just repeat how special the OT is and tell me what other website I should be on, that's a new one. God forbid we actually talk about the movies, please draw this into a larger thing about progressivism and corporate fanboyism. Go ahead and go "oh this person is on the other side therefore they must be brain dead and I'm the true deep thinker here." Go fuck yourself. And you say I'm circle jerking anything? "Oh yeah TFA is so bad, fuck yeah oh yeah Mary Sue Mary Sue, fuck feminism, I love it oooooh." Your post was one of the most hypocritical, blind things I've read in a while.
>No one is impressed with the force awakens
That's how far you are removed from reality. Is TFA this pioneer of new technology? Fuck no. Was no one impressed with the movie? That's obviously not accurate. Is it not Star Wars or does it have no identity of its own? How the fuck do you type that and think it makes sense?
Shitting on popular things is only a substitute for self-esteem for so long anon. Obviously you touched a nerve, you're the worst kind of person.
>>68006609
I am parroting Star Wars Documentaries? How so?
As for the first 3 being influenced by the decades they were filmed in I am going to have to disagree. There are no other big movies that had a similiar vibe of music, humor or pacing. The way the Star Wars series was always presented was played so straight and very much like a stage play.
Seeing as how butthurt you are I dont enjoy the direction Star Wars is going in I take it you love the snarkiness and almost self awareness films, especially super hero films have these days. All that tells me is you are so up your own ass trying to appear ahead of the curve as if youre one of the few who "get it". When you dont. You really couldnt sound more like a by the tide fan of Star Wars than you do now. If you loved The Force Awakens or hell even liked it, thats whatever dude. Dont tell me I should be disappointed the personality and heart of the series got replaced by a checklist of modern movie cliches.
>>68006373
Even so, thinking of it in those terms it feels like unnaturally fast progression.
I'd compare it to a martial arts novice mastering a move in a matter of minutes and without a training montage or some shit.
While I like TFA overall, that part took me out of the movie because up to that point Rey might have been pretty competent, but she only displayed skills she had actually possessed before.
>>68006983
>Seeing as how butthurt you are I dont enjoy the direction Star Wars is going in
That you're able to misconstrue what I said to this extent means it's just not worth talking to you anymore. Have a good night anon.
>>68007011
>Even so, thinking of it in those terms it feels like unnaturally fast progression.
Well it is. That isn't something they didn't realize when making the movie, characters reference it as the movie goes along.
>I'd compare it to a martial arts novice mastering a move in a matter of minutes and without a training montage or some shit.
You don't watch martial arts movies, do you?
36th Chamber of the Shaolin is exactly what you're talking about. And I wouldn't call any of Rey's force use "mastery." They're successful, but it's not like she stood up to Snoke or Luke, just crying Kylo.
>>67997318
Just need to ask these questions.
Mary Sues aren't complicated. They're just over powered good guys who don't rely on any help or have any significant flaws.
Having a dark, mysterious past is the bread and butter of the Mary Sue. It gives him/her a personality without having to actually have one. A bit like Strider in Lord of the Rings.
>>67997318
Nope.
At the very least they're giving her a believable background to explain her skills. Of course knowing JewJew she'll become a mouthpiece for "STRONK INDEPENDENT WIMMYN".
My hang up with it is the continuity issues. Judging from the trailer this takes place between Empire Strikes Back and Return of The Jedi, so why the hell are they being inconsistent with the design elements?
Also,
> Outrunning an AT-AT without getting completely fucking destroyed.
> Outrunning 3 FUCKING AT-AT's without getting completely fucking destroyed.
>>68007129
Dude, 36th Chamber is basically one long training montage until the finale.
The movie is about mastering the grueling training regiment. He's a total shrub when he enters the monastery and it takes a while before he makes any real progress.
What the hell are you even talking about?
Also, when did anybody comment on Rey being unnaturally fast at learning Jedi shit?
>>68007320
>Dude, 36th Chamber is basically one long training montage until the finale.
Are you high? He's 'in training' the entire movie but the only training he gets is with the water logs. After that he passes every trial immediately like a prodigy, invents a whole new weapon to beat dual sword teacher man, and is given the chance to teach a chamber.
But if you don't think about what is actually happening and just go "oh he's at the school so it's all training" then it's easy to think you're right.
>Also, when did anybody comment on Rey being unnaturally fast at learning Jedi shit?
Finn asks how she's so good at flying, Rey responds she has no idea and has never done anything like that before.
Kylo says she's unntrained but stronger than she knows.
Snoke says if she could mind fuck Kylo with no training then he needs to bring her ass to him.
Again, if you aren't thinking and just looking for a character saying "Wow you learn da force good," then you'll think it's totally unacknowledged. Characters in the movie, even Rey herself are surprised by her actions. She straight out tells Finn he wouldn't believe her about using a mind trick, so that's some admission she know how crazy it sounds that she pulled it off.
>>67999254
Will you defer your motion to allow a commission to explore the validity of your accusations?
>>67997991
>implying john wick didnt get captured, have a meltdown, get beaten and have his arm broken halfway through the movie
> implying tom crusie didnt get captured and have to be saved by a girl, then drown, almost die and have to be saved again in the latest mission impossible.
female mary sue's never suffer, they do everything perfectly and manage to get out of any bad situation with ease on their own. While male mary sue's allways struggle at one point which makes them more realistic and makes you actually like the character more.
I rebel
>>68006983
Don't waste your time on retards, mate
My biggest problem with Rey wasn't that she inexplicably knew how to do everything, it was just that she could.
She gets attacked by a gang on Jakku? She fights them all off herself.
She gets into a dogfight with TIE Fighters? She outmaneuvers all of them and lines Finn up for the perfect shot.
She gets captured by the Empire? She mindtricks the guards and nearly escapes all by herself.
Get into a swordfight with the main antagonist? Beat him in a lightsaber duel that he's probably been training with all his life.
Her being good at everything makes her boring. She wins at everything. She suceeds at everything. Luke had the big win against the death star at the end of Ep IV, but before that he wasn't very competent at anything. One of the best parts in the OT was him getting his ass royally handed in Cloud City. Hopefully Rey gets something she actually struggles with that she doesn't overcome easily in 5 or 10 minutes.
>>68002448
>tortured
And yet Kylo literally doesn't even touch her.
>>68009214
>She gets attacked by a gang on Jakku? She fights them all off herself.
Two desert dwellers that were not that tough.
>She gets into a dogfight with TIE Fighters? She outmaneuvers all of them and lines Finn up for the perfect shot.
That is the force, that is not even her.
>She gets captured by the Empire? She mindtricks the guards and nearly escapes all by herself.
Force again
>Get into a swordfight with the main antagonist? Beat him in a lightsaber duel that he's probably been training with all his life.
Losses at first. Uses the force to win. He was both an emotional and physical wreck. JarJar Binks could have beat him.
The movie is called Force Awakens. You can't cry when it awakens in the main character.
>Her being good at everything makes her boring.
Yes, this could be a problem, but she is not good at everything. She fails a lot.
Door fuse.
Getting portions.
Emotional problems: When Finn leaves her, her irrational attachment to a family that isn't coming back, dealing with Luke's light saber.
She got captured.
She got knocked the fuck out by Kylo
She doesn't use a blaster properly.
Lives in a junk heap
I have a few problems with Rey. But unlike a lot of you I believe they are rational problems.
I don't like how she can talk to droids and Wookies. This makes little to no sense to me.
I don't like how she walks around on an ice planet in little clothing. Her planet is got. (I understand why it was ignored: Prequel Anakin.)
>>67997475
>I have a feeling Jones will die
From day zero I'm sure tons of people guessed the entire cast would die by the end.
Calling it now, she is Rey's mother
>>68009569
I like when people bring up the fact she was handling stuff on the Falcon better than Han as though that's surprising or that Han is some genius mechanic/engineer...the dude was clearly a guy with no formal education in ANYTHING and just barely getting by and learning stuff as he did so. That scene where C3PO plugs into the Falcon AI proves that pretty clearly and the whole point was to show you Han didn't really know all that much.
Rey literally had to learn ships in order to live, plus probably has some o' that Skywalker magic
>>67997318
Will she kick around dark side users without the slightest effort?
>>68009642
>Rey literally had to learn ships in order to live
She stayed in one spot her entire life.
>>68009627
>>68009660
Pay attention to the movie, she had to learn them inside and out in order to scavenge them. All sorts of shit crashed on Jakku, various ships from all sorts of worlds that the Rebellion got their hands on and of course Imperial crap. And she even apparently flew some at various points for various reasons.
>>68009569
Whatever you say, friendo
>>68009569
>That is the force, that is not even her.
>Force again
>uses the force to win
"That's not how the Force works!"
But seriously, when the force is turned into some "Win button", it's boring. Just because the film is titled "The Force Awakens" doesn't mean I have to agree with the protagonist being overpowered. It's way more fun to see these characters struggle and fuck up. I mean, obviously I want to see them come out on top, but she's got nowhere to go or improve if she's already the best at everything. All she's got is the "mysterious background and mystery parents" thing going for her.
>She got captured.
>She got knocked the fuck out by Kylo
And then she overpowers Kylo in his own force mind thing, and she rescues herself. I'm pretty confident she would have saved herself if they gave her another 10 minutes.
>She doesn't use a blaster properly.
Really? That's the best you can do? She, like anyone else with common sense, immediately turns the safety off, then she begins shooting with perfect accuracy.
>Lives in a junk heap
So?
>>68000339
Kekkels
>>68009817
Force was fixed, the prophecy fulfilled, remember?
Just how did you think they were going to display that the Sith were destroyed and that balance was restored? With Luke going "Oh, mm...I fell a great balancing in the Force! So balanced now...and with less calories!" No, they make a Jedi that's incredibly powerful so you visibly see it.
The Sith were crippling the light side with the Sith shrine on Coruscant, with them dead it died as well and the light side jumped back into being amazing like it always was supposed to be...all you're witnessing is the light side at FULL POWER YOU SITHSUCKING PIECE OF SHIT
EAT IT
>>67997318
Judging from TFA and the trailer I think it's very improbable that she won't be one.
>>68010039
I honestly have no fucking idea what you're talking about. There is and always will be force sensitives throughout the universe. And it seems the Sith were never destroyed, all it takes is two. As long as there's a master and an apprentice there's the Sith in their purest form.
>>68006190
I agree, I dont want to even touch a dindu.
>>67997812
4199 1283 5898 8336 827 6/18 reporting for duty.
>>67997726
I hope to god she would so all these cancerous Hamill-faggots would get BTFO. Every fucking time you have a Luke or Mark Hamill thread they suddenly crawl out of whatever hole they dwell in and start shitposting gayshit.
