How was she a Mary Sue? She was was a scavenger, so obviously she had more survival skills.
>>67932804
but did she boipass the compressah?
Who's that guy?
>>67932804
Did she prostitute her self to make a living?
I mean, that's what a lone girl on a hostile planet would do to survive.
Star Wars is a Mary sue
Her insane piloting skill is pretty much the only thing I have a problem with, as most of the other stuff can be written off as that.
That's not the extent of her Mary Sue abilities. I feel like people have more problems with her using Force abilities after a nice Force chat with Kylo Ren.
She also seems to go back and forth between accepting and not accepting the Force after that. She uses the Force to free herself, but then she has to have a epiphany on top of a cliff with Kylo Ren about to win against her to remember that she can use it?
>>67932804
Because everyone liked her just after they met.
Also, why did Leia hugged her instead of Chewie after Han's death?
I would say because Leia was racist, but clearly she wasn't.
>>67932804
A Mary Sue isn't someone who's inexplicably good at everything, it's someone who's good at everything. There being a narrative justification for her skills doesn't make her any less overpowered.
I don't think she's a Mary Sue, btw.
>>67932804
>Han gives her a blaster
>Never shot one before
>Doesn't even know how to use it
>Misses first shot at stormtrooper
>Proceeds to have pinpoint accuracy for the rest of the film
Just one example
If it were a female director, Rey would have been Mary Sue.
>"A Mary Sue for female characters (...) is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment."
Is Luke the original Mary Sue?
>>67932804
the force awakened in her and she's a competent survivor
>>67932887
>I have never had the spine to aggressively pursue women, so as a result I'm a loser with little to no sexual experience. As a result, I angrily spout falsified generalizations about women, such as the myth that all attractive women are sluts, that they all crave black cock, and that they only dont like me because life dealt me a bad hand.
>>67933017
The original Mary Sue was a parody of Star Trek fic OCs in the 1960s.
But Luke is definitely Lucas' Mary Sue, yes.
OT:
>Han was a belittling jerk to Luke when he first met him
>Han was a belittling jerk to Leia when he first met her
>Chewie gave no fucks about Leia
>Chewie growled at Luke for merely approaching him
>Leia made fun of Luke the first time she met him
TFA:
>Finn immediately liked and respected Rey
>Han immediately liked and respected Rey
>Chewie immediately liked and respected Rey
>Leia immediately liked and respected Rey
>even the fucking villain has a thing for her
She's shit m8.
>>67933083
Exact same bait every day.
What a boring little shit you and the other parrots are.
MaREY Sue!
>>67933042
He's right tho
Abandoned girls without means of subsidence usually finish up as prostitutes.
And stop projecting your miserable tumblerina life.
>>67933148It's my first day here
>>67932804
Can you please discuss this back on reddit? Thanks
>>67933141
>ace pilot
>super gifted force user
>destroyed the Death Star
>held his own against Darth Vader in their first meating and impressed him
>defeated Darth Vader with under 1 year of training
>the same Darth Vader who crushed all Jedi and resistance fighters in his 20 years of serving the Emperor
Yeah, Luke totally isn't a Mary Sue.
>>67933017
Remove gender from the equation. Rey is a character who everyone immediately loves and is good at everything they try, without having to go through any kind of learning process. They save the day, usually unaided, every single time and overcome every obstacle with ease. Just to because JJ is a man doesn't mean Rey isn't a Mary Sue - on the contrary, she's about the most ridiculously Sue character there is.
>>67933017
>>67933083
Luke is not a Sue. A Sue is a new character inserted into an established canon who is better at everything than the established characters and is beloved by all.
And besides that, Luke was never perfect. He fucked up a lot, had flaws, needed to be rescued roughly 6 times, and wasn't immediately warmed to by his friends. He eventually grew into being competent. If anything, Han is Lucas' idealized self-insert, he's the cool badass who gets the girl in the end. Pic related.
>>67933246
That's bullshit. Rey was taken out by Kylo twice. Finn had to save her ass.
>>67933241
>held his own against Darth Vader in their first meating and impressed him
The fuck you on about, he got utterly rekt, and Vader wasn't even out to kill him. He also trained to be a decent pilot. You're also overlooking the very obvious fact that Vader was conflicted all throughout the final duel and Luke tapped into the dark side at that moment.
>>67932804
She bypassed the semen inspection.
>>67933314
>He also trained to be a decent pilot
so was Rey
FFS who keeps spamming threads about this retarded Mary Sue.
Make a Mary Sue general or something.
>>67933083
Luke doesn't excel at anything when we first meet him. The only thing he's even half good at is piloting, and even then we never see him do anything which even approaches Rey's crazy maneuvering in the Falcon. He spends the entire first movie getting rescued by others - even his moment of triumph, blowing up the death star, is only possible because Han saved him from Vader at the last second. Come to think of it, he spends the entire second movie getting beat and/or failing, too. And we *like* him for it! It's satisfying to see a character struggle through adversity, gradually master their art and eventually come out on top. It's boring when they just automatically win at everything right from the get-go.
>>67933265
>A Sue is a new character inserted into an established canon who is better at everything than the established characters and is beloved by all.
It doesn't get clearer than this.
>>67933313
She saved her own ass, I think you'll find. Both times. Second time she even saved Finn too.
>>67933324
She's a cute Mary Sue
>>67933324
You just know they fugged
>>67933314
He held out longer against Vader than everyone except Obi-Wan in RotS. He landed a blow on Vader. This is with zero lightsaber training. Vader himself said he was impressive. That's not getting wrecked.
And Rey trained her piloting too.
>>67933373
If Finn wasn't there when Kylo knocked her out she would have been a prisoner or dead, dumbass.
>>67933241
>practiced being an ace pilot by flying T-16's which are outfitted to have the same control as an X-Wing
>he never does anything special with the force beyond destroying the Death Star, a target that is the same size as womprats that he practices shooting, and he would have died then and there had Han not rescued him. After that he fails the most basic force tests and only manages to be able to lift a chair in ROTJ after at least 2 years of practice
>he didn't hold his own, Vader was clearly toying with him and he got destroyed
>defeated a heavily emotionally conflicted Vader (who was never set on actually killing his son anyway) after reaching into the dark side at the last minute
>actually ignoring this fucking fact
>implying you're not a troll
>>67933355
>The only thing he's even half good at is piloting, and even then we never see him do anything which even approaches Rey's crazy maneuvering in the Falcon
Except, you know, blow up the fucking Death Star.
>>67933462
Literally the only thing he accomplished throughout the whole series beyond influencing Vader.
>>67933440
>all this strawman shit
>Rey practiced piloting as well
>nobody did anything special with the Force in the OT because of SFX limitations
>Vader wasn't toying with him, the ESB novelization makes it clear Vader would have killed Luke if he wasn't strong enough to defend himself
>novel goes on to say Luke was Vader's toughest opponent in a long time
>ignoring that RotJ Vader tried to land a blow on a disarmed Luke twice
no, you're the troll and it's all because the new protag is a girl
>>67932874
She doesn't look masculine.
Go outside more.
>>67933241
>ace pilot
Because he spent his childhood flying on Tatooine
>super gifted force user
Because he was the son of a powerful force user, and even then had to have training under two powerful force users
>destroyed the Death Star
See previous flight experience, and experience with hitting small targets
>held his own against Darth Vader in their first meating and impressed him
lel, wut? He got his hand chopped off.
>>67933414
Gee, it's not like Vader had no intent on inflicting serious harm on Luke and wasn't just playing with him the whole time. Man, just look at how overpowered Luke is here, he totally owned that fight.
This isn't about Rey being a Sue, this is about you pathetically dragging a character through the mud to make her look better. Get fucked.
>>67933518
So a farmboy destroying the Empire's super weapon when no one else could is not a Mary Sue trait, but Rey flying through some shit is?
top kek
>>67933595
>assuming I ever called Rey a Sue
I'm just defending Luke, you nigger. Maybe you should stop shitting on characters to make your waifu seem better.
>>67933462
After Han saved his life and Ben calmed him down.
>>67933636
No, it isn't. Doing one extraordinary thing is not what makes someone a Mary Sue.
>>67933462
It's like you can't even read and didn't even see the movie, you pathetic fanboy. Blowing up the death star isn't even an act of skill; it's presented as a leap of faith. "Turn off the targeting computer" is a mirror to the drone scene where he pushes down the visor. It's not about Luke being le awesome pilot (reminder that he just flies in a straight line and was about to be shot by Vader before Han saves the day), it's about him putting his faith in the force, taking his first steps in a larger world.
But the thing is, you know this. You've seen the movie, and it's very clear in how the scene plays out. You're just trying to retroactively shit on it because the alternative is admitting that TFA is a weak and ultimately unsatisfying author-insert fantasy.
>>67933605
>Because he spent his childhood flying on Tatooine
same goes for Rey
>Because he was the son of a powerful force user, and even then had to have training under two powerful force users
again, same goes for Rey
>See previous flight experience, and experience with hitting small targets
again same
>lel, wut? He got his hand chopped off.
And almost cut off Vader's whole arm before that. Vader was only saved by his armor there.
>>67933610
Except that goes against the Sith code and the Dark side. Vader only wanted Luke if he was strong enough to help him overthrow the Emperor. The novel (approved by Lucas btw) makes that clear.
>>67933042
>I've never been to the ghetto
>>67933595
>declaring the movies were only made like they were because of limitations, even though we see Vader do plenty of badass force shit
>using novelisations as source
How are you so pleb
>>67933706
That's exactly the point. Luke did something experienced pilots couldn't because of his gift. He only won because he was a special snowflake.
>>67933595
>practiced piloting
Never seen or mentioned.
>>67933741
>we see Vader do plenty of badass force shit
>all Vader does is throw some crates at Luke and Force choke some niggas
Both are thing Luke has done.
>>67933709
>Vader only wanted Luke if he was strong enough to help him overthrow the Emperor.
That still involves, y'know, not being out to kill him or fighting at full zeal. Way to overlook every other point made as well, faggot. Look, here's some more super competent badass Luke winning his first fight against Vader.
>>67933766
she says she's a pilot, Luke says literally the same in ANH
>>67933766
She said she practiced to Finn. Not my fault you didn't pay attention to the movie.
>>67933742
>He only won because he was a special snowflake.
He only won because he was saved by Han at the last minute. If he was alone, he would've died immediately after.
>>67932804
Who cares? It's just a movie for kids. Just enjoy it!
>>67933806
Not what I'm talking about.
>>67933001
She misses more than the first shot and also she stumbles with making the thing even fire
>>67933772
In the last film, after years have passed. You gonna start saying learning skills after a few years = Mary Sue?
>>67933742
>Luke just felt the force something basically all force users can do
>Rey did nasty tricks that need training like say, mind tricking, etc
>Luke piloted a fighter, after instruction from the rebellion, with aid from other fighters and he had mentioned previous experience, beyond that he had a small bit of tutoring from Obi Wan
>Rey piloted the damned millenium falcon while dogfighting multiple enemy fighters, with no back up ships, with no mentioned previous experience and no force trainning background
Femifags get btfo.
There are a ton of good female characters that are excelent at what they do without being a sue.
>>67933742
But he had to learn that skill, didn't he? All that stuff with Obi-Wan on the Falcon, and then talking is his head, is what makes that possible. Luke goes on a journey of development throughout the movie, and learns to fight through adversity and trust in himself, lessons which he is able to call upon in the end to destroy the death star. This is satisfying to watch. Rey's many, many superpowers aren't developed from nothing over the course of the movie, she already has the skills to overcome everything thrown at her straight away. Hence the whole "bypassed the character development" meme, it's fucking true.
>>67933414
Luke had already been in war for several years at this point. He knew how to fight, and still had some force training from Yoda. He still lost the fight, and his hand.
Rey beat Ben Solo the first time she ever touched a lightsaber.
Because, you know, she had a flashback some shitty alien cellar, and all the combat training that 7 year old Rey went through came rushing back.
>>67933838
I'm afraid it's still a fact you can't gleefully ignore in an attempt to prove your point, junior.
>>67932804
She's a poorly written character made to target teenage girls, so they can join star wars fandom and buy merchandise.
>>67933163
>>67933717
Actually I have been to the ghetto.
I taught at Schenectady High School for 4 years in the run down neighborhoods of old Albany/Troy.
Yes, there's prostitution among the poor, but the idea that "most" women with no money (that's 50% or more) resort to it is objectively false.
>>67932804
>She was was a scavenger
soo a scavenger can
>bypass advanced spaceship machinery? >Know all the ways of the force including jedi mind tricks
>know how to fly any ship
she doesn't need any man to help her yet will allow Luke to train her.. how the fuck does that work? I wouldn't be surprised if she killed Luke in cold blood and joined Kylo. THAT would make way more sense but of course unbased Disney would never do that.
>>67933871
>>67933863
>>67933855
>>67933852
Lmao, Luke spent a couple of hours with Ben and a few days with Yoda, and suddenly it makes sense for him to defeat a Sith Lord with 20+ years of combat experience. But when Rey does the same to a much weaker Sith, who's injured it's a problem. You guys are pathetic and you don't even realize it.
"Mary Sue" might be a stretch, but the movie feels like it caters to her or is written around her in an unnatural, oddly self-aware way. It sucks a lot of tension out of the movie. The entire movie has this fixation, though. It's why things like Han and Chewbacca appearing so suddenly, or the what-a-coincidence Millennium Falcon reveal feel so odd. The biggest example is probably everyone's oddly casual reaction to Starkiller. It's like they knew they were in a Star Wars movie.
I think a lot of the issues with Rey come from this bigger problem.
>>67933595
>m-muh novels
>>67933924
Rey doesnt do the same (as in lose) faggot.
>>67933799
>>67933797
No she fucking doesn't you cockmunchers.
Can you point to the exact moment when she does? That's right.
>>67933914
A scavanger who dissects electronics should have some electronics knowledge. I don't see the big deal. She practiced flying so that's not a big deal either.
>>67932887
yes I believe that Rey was a sex slave while growing up.
>>67933709
>Because he was the son of a powerful force user, and even then had to have training under two powerful force users
>again, same goes for Rey
We don't know Rey's parents yet
>>67933972
Yeah, let me re-watch the whole movie to prove some jackass on /tv/ wrong.
>>67933924
>Lmao, Luke spent a couple of hours with Ben and a few days with Yoda, and suddenly it makes sense for him to defeat a Sith Lord with 20+ years of combat experience
Because it's inconceivable that Luke never fucking trained between the time of ESB and ROTJ (which is at least a year). You also keep ignoring that Vader was incredibly conflicted and therefore not at the top of his game in his last fight with Luke. He didn't want to kill his own son, you fucking retard, it's spelled out to you in ROTJ. That's literally his redemption and why he goes to the light side.
>>67932937
>Also, why did Leia hugged her instead of Chewie after Han's death?
because JJ done goofed up big time while directing this scene. Even he acknowledged the error of it as the intention was to have Chewbacca be too busy helping Finn BUT instead Chewy stands next to a crowd of cheering rebels a few feet away from Leia.. so fucking horrible I cannot believe JJ didn't do a retake of this scene and get the actor who played Chewbacca to LOOK MORE BUSY!!
>>67933597
Neither does a 13 year old boy, yet they both have the same body types.
>>67933914
>>bypass advanced spaceship machinery?
The MF was Platt's (the portions guy) ship, she worked on it.
>>67933972
>Finn: We need a pilot!
>Rey: You've got one!
when they running to the quod jumper
>>67934014
Just look at the transcripts you fucking mong.
She doesn't mention it and you just pulled it out of your ass to justify it.
>>67933991
It's pretty clearly Luke. The connection with Anakin's lightsaber is too obvious.
>>67934015
>Because it's inconceivable that Luke never fucking trained between the time of ESB and ROTJ
Not to mention there's like 3 years between New Hope and ESB.
>>67932804
I hope they make her Sheev's long lost daughter.
She'd still be a shitty written character, but at least it would generate some memes.
>>67933924
>Luke spent a couple of hours with Ben and a few days with yoda
Except, you know, time has clearly passed between 4-5 AND 5-6, and we already know he's training to become a Jedi. The very fact that he's built a lightsaber by the start of 6 tells us - with NO room for interpretation - that he's been doing his Jedi homework in the intervening time.
>Rey does the same thing
No she doesn't.
Besides, even if I humour your fanboying and accept all these excuses you're reaching so hard for, it wouldn't fix the movie. Logical justification doesn't excuse shitty storytelling, and having your character already OP from the get-go is shitty storytelling. There's no room for development, no tension when she's in danger, no sense of satisfaction when she finally masters the skills she needs and emerges triumphant at the end.
>>67933001
yeah so?
that still doesn't explain how she knew how to jedi mind trick the guard. IF in the beginning JJ showed the audience that she had a "ways of the force" novel in her hide out then we would all assume that she read up about the force and so it would make sense.
Hell she even states to Finn that she assumed that Luke Skywalker was only a myth - implying she READ up about him while on Jakku YET we were never shown any books near her or given any proof that she heard it from word of mouth.
This film is literally the worst story telling that I have ever seen on screen! The amount of plotholes and editing problems. It's as if this movie was 70% on cutting room floor and hasn't been completely edited yet
Damn I'm reading Before the Awakening and it's basically "why didn't you put that shit in the movie : the book"
Even a 30 second scene of Rey playing on her flight simulator would have been enough to shut 50% of the people up.
>>67934042
Obi-Wan talks to her, though, not Anakin.
>>67933927
It revolves around her for a much wider reason than just a storytelling point of view. Franchise needs a new hero. Everybody knows she isnt going to die no matter how much "danger" there is. Its just a matter of how badass you try to make a character, and Disney and JJ went overboard. Her complete and total invulnerability was made far too obvious.
>>67934015
Whoa, a whole year of self-training. That definitely puts him on a Jedi's level, never mind that Jedi train for 15+ years with masters and sparring with each other. That's like saying you can learn to fight by watching a movie and shadow boxing.
Vader was conflicted but that didn't stop him from taking 2 cheap shots at Luke.
>>67934022
>we need a pilot
>you've got one
Immediatelly followed by him asking if she ever piloted that thing before and she saying no.
So we have a thrown away statement that does not really mean previous experience or even it's level if existing.
And followed by her indicating lack of skill with that specific ship.
Despite that she still beats all the fighter pilots without other ships' support while flying an old piece of junk.
>>67934073
The movie doesn't need to be "fixed" it received box office and critical acclaim.
>>67934089
>Even a 30 second scene of Rey playing on her flight simulator would have been enough to shut 50% of the people up.
IKR! I am so fucking pissed at JJ for making a BROKEN FILM!! The amount of editing problems and plotholes pisses me the fuck off and yet it gets such a high score on rotten tomatoes despite all these story problems
>>67934132
Just like Luke when he pilots an X-Wing for the first time in his life and blows up the Death Star. And Anakin too. Force users are supposed to be supernaturally good at everything. God is pretty much guiding every action they take.
>>67934073
>There's no room for development, no tension when she's in danger, no sense of satisfaction when she finally masters the skills she needs and emerges triumphant at the end.
This is the real issue with Rey. Aside from learning her heritage and beating the final boss, where can she go from here as a character when she's already at the top of her game?
>>67934146
Because no generic shitty franchise movies ever achieve this
>>67932804
Name one fault she has.
You can't.
There, I proved she was a mary sue. I am smart and you're stupid.
>>67934213
She has fetal alcohol syndrome.
>>67934213
/thread
>>67934186
Well, you sure proved me wrong.
>>67934181
>Just like Luke when he pilots an X-Wing for the first time in his life and blows up the Death Star
Luke had prior flying experience in a spaceship similar to X wings, and prior experience hitting small targets.
Anakin had experience with pod racers.
>>67934119
>y-years of training doesn't count because I said so!!!
>Vader was conflicted but that didn't stop him from taking 2 cheap shots at Luke.
That still doesn't erase the fact that he wasn't out to kill him. Any shots he took at Luke were his weak attempts at reaffirming to himself that he's not going soft. Are you seriously arguing that Luke's constant pleading with Vader didn't fuck with his emotions or influence the fight at all? Are you seriously trying to minimize the turning point that caused his redemption?
>>67934213
she wants to return to jakku, I guess.
I have no problem with her being competent tho, but she should've failed mind-tricking the trooper and let Finn properly rescue her.
How does she speak Wookie?
She lives on a desert planet that she's never left.
She's the only one other than Han to be able to talk to Chewie.
>>67934117
That's sort of my point, yeah. She doesn't feel natural in the story the way Luke does in the original. Everything is too contrived and desperate to get to the "Star Wars" stuff.
>>67933017
No but he's MaryCUTE
>>67934262
Yeah, pod racers and a T-16 are exactly the same is a massive space battle. And Anakin was fucking 9, too. But you know, what Qui-Gon Jinn said about Anakin's reflexes applies to Rey. She flew well because she has enhanced reflexes due to the Force.
>>67934285
BECAUSE SHE'S A MARY SUE
>>67934119
If Luke were just a random Jedi mook and Vader wasn't battling himself over his love for his son the whole time, the fight would've gone differently. You can't leave these pivotal facts out, nigra.
>>67934285
Yoda could speak Wookie too. So yeah, she's as fluent as a guy who literally lives with one and a 900 year old Jedi master.
What a shit fucking character.
>>67934300
>justifying shit in TFA by citing the precedence of shit in a shit movie
Dude, similarities to the prequels are not what you want to prove that TFA is perfect
>>67934300
>T-16 are exactly the same is a massive space battle
T-16s are very similar to X-Wings, yes.
>>67934275
A year of self training and zero lightsaber sparring doesn't equal 15 years of training under Obi-Wan and 25 years of combat experience. No way.
Vader wasn't going all out, but you'll notice that Luke wasn't either. He put away his saber several times trying to talk to him.
>>67933036
Han Solo: That's not how the force works!
>>67934338
And blowing up rats on Tattooine is nothing like fighting imperial TIEs.
>>67934300
They're not, but that's why Luke had friends there to protect him, some of whom died doing so. Luke himself would've died if Han hadnt rescued him.
>>67934251
>your sole response to my last long comment was "but it was a hit!"
Yeah actually, I did prove you wrong. Now settle down and go get your fucking shinebox.
>>67934365
Why not?
I'd like to point out that at no point was it ever established that Kylo Ren as good with a lightsaber or that he spent a great deal of time practicing his combat abilities rather than force sensitivity.
>>67934343
>A year
It's more than that. And, once again, Vader was fighting his fucking son, the one person who made his cold burnt up heart feel again, not some random fuckboy he couldn't care less about.
>>67934405
Except he's supposed to have killed all the new Jedis or some shit.
>>67934367
Anakin activated the autopilot by accident. He didn't really fly the ship at all and accidentally shot the shield generator or whatever the fuck it was by pushing every button in the ship.
>>67934400
rats don't shoot back for starters
>>67934563
which were probably just students and there were 6 other Knights of Ren with Kylo
>>67934616
And he was established as the only human podracer ever and it was made clear he never finished a race until Qui Gon helped him focus and build a super fast podracer.
>>67934300
>a force-adept granddaughter has the same force abilities as space Jesus
ALRIGHTY THEN
>>67934426
Didn't stop him from attacking an unarmed Luke twice. Vader was conflicted but he was still fighting.
>>67934651
Haha! Fuck off dickhead.
>>67934669
Why not? Luke was said by Lucas to be what Anakin would have become if he wasn't crippled, ie twice as strong as Sheev. If Rey really is his daughter she could have inherited his OP Force powers.
>>67934374
>critics loved it
>audiences loved
>b-but it's everyone else who's wrong
>>67934021
Interesting you think so, that's completely wrong lol
>>67934654
And he was unpopular/laughed at by the other kids and a slave.
Later he is fully duped by Sheev and becomes a fucking psycho mass murderer.
He is only redeemed by his son showing him the light path.
>>67932862
ye , with an soulou
It doesn't matter if they can explain it, the problem is that somebody good at everything as your main character just isn't very interesting narrative wise.
>>67933843
For all of what, a minute?
>>67935296
/thread
>>67935329
10 seconds?
>>67933017
Luke almost always gets his ass kicked when he gets in a fight.
She isn't a Sue, she's just a shitty, poorly thought out character with no discernable flaws.
>>67935296
Fucking this. All of the 'but maybe she had training! She worked as a mechanic!!!!" is completely missing the point. You could replace her with an older character whose myriad skills are explained and established up-front and it wouldn't make her any less of a shit character.
>>67933241
You mention all the other jedi, but the issue is is that the prequels weren't written in 1983, therefore despite being canon, are completely irrelevant to the originals since they were never kept in mind when making the originals.
>>67933241
>Defeated Darth Vader with only one year of training
>3 years pass between ANH and ESB, 1 year between ESB and RotJ
Whelp
>>67934736
You can't defend your opinion any more can you? You literally have to resort to "it's popular so I'm right!" jesus fucking christ what a stubborn child
>>67932804
In the context of her upbringing it makes sense she'd be a competent enough pilot....of small vehicles, not starships. Any more than just because I drive a car I can hop in an M1A1 Abrams and roll away with 10 seconds notice.
I can get how being a tech scavenger she'd be pretty competent with getting damaged gear salvaged so I'll give them a pass on that.
As for the rest, pure Mary Sue shit. But then again Star Wars has always been able to just hand wave and say "A wizard did it!"
>>67933341
What precisely did she have training on besides her little hoverbike? Being competent at that doesn't train you jack for a starship
I think Rey flying the falcon was the main problem i had.
All they needed to do was like, throw in a sequence early on where she finds an old tie fighter or something in the star destroyer wreck and goes on a joyride.
>>67935622
Then she sells this fully operation fighter for a million credits.
No.
>>67932862
U had to do it
>>67935622
Nah, still sucks. Logical justification doesn't automatically make it a compelling narrative. You can't have a character arc of they're already OP.
When Luke started being a smartass and telling Han how to pilot the Falcon, Han basically told him to shut the fuck up and called him a kid.
>>67932804
If jj Abrams was a women. 100% of you would agree Rey was a sue.
Aragorn was a mary sue
>>67935962
He's not the protagonist and he also had to be rescued in frequent places.
>>67935962
Aragon needs others to help him succeed. Rey is a strong woman who don't need no help.
>>67936249
>Everyone loves him
>Singlehandedly destroys hordes of orcs
>Can wisper to horses
>Also hes a king n shieet
>So charismatic that an elf wants to give up immortality and some random blonde falls in love with him
He's absolutely horrible, self insert male power fantasy shit character.
MARY SUE
>>67936348
>>Everyone loves him
>Boromir
>>67936348
Jesus was a Mary sue
>>67936430
I think you mean Moses.
Jesus was like the gay best friend.
>>67934058
>Rey Palpatine
I have never seen such vitriol towards a character in a Star Wars movie for being heroic and good at things. I mean, fuck, you even have people defending Anakin compared to Rey when in Episode 1 he blew up a Trade Federation ship on accident despite no flying experience, going "WHOOPS" and "WHOOOOOOAH" and "YIPEEEEEEEEEEEE" the whole time ruining any sort of tension
I hate to sound like Anita but I genuinely believe a lot of hate is thrown her way simply by virtue of being a woman. and hell, a lot of people, despite complaining TFA is too much like ANH, bitch that the characterizations and plot aren't exactly the same as ANH, like this guy >>67933141
>>67936561
the reason anakin gets a pass from a lot of people is that we know he becomes darth fucking vader. and they establish pretty early that he's a super duper jedi and the chosen one etc etc. Not saying it isn't stupid, and not saying I didn't hate some of the things you just described.
Oh and also Ani was with jedi's from the start pretty much, getting training on the way
This cunt just magics advanced force abilities out of nowhere.
>>67936561
The problem is there are no characters to reign her in. She has no mentor. She has no one to compare to. Finn is an idiot. Poe has no interactions with her. Everyone else is old as fuck. She has no one to engage in meaningful conversation with. She is forced to do the job of 2 or 3 characters whereas Luke had obiwan, han, and the Droids along for the ride, Rey essentially had just Finn, who was of no help really. This causes a lack of knowledge of Rey as a deeper character, because when her only interaction is with Finn of course she's going to come off as smart and a know it all.
>there are people that actually defend rey
>they claim she's not a mary sue
>they try and delude themelves and others that she's "the same as luke"
Are these people trolling or does people this dumb and delusional actually exist?
>>67932804
>>67932963
>inexplicably a good pilot
>inexplicably liked by everyone except for le fatass trader man
>inexplicably is good at using force persuade
>inexplicably good at light saber wielding
>inexplicably good at force telekinesis
>inexplicably good at fixing a ship with modifications she knew nothing about
yeah she's mary sue as fuck you nigger.
>>67935962
literally the opposite of a Sue in every respect
>>67934281
>I have no problem with her being competent tho
There's competent and then there's mary sue.
You can be competent but still have tons of flaws. It makes a character more interesting.
Finn was 100x more interesting as a character than Rey.
It just feels like that they got too obsessed with making a STRONG WOMYN that they forgot to make her into an actual character people could relate to and root for.
>>67936874
a little from column A, a little from column B, probably.
Some are SJW morons who see sexism in everything and some are 4chan trolls shitstirring
>>67936907
except they spend a good deal of the movie hammering in that she's delusional about her family and holding onto a past that's long gone, she runs away from her potential as a Jedi in order to hold onto that delusion, and she gets captured by Kylo Ren in the forest. If she were really a mary sue, she would never have been captured in the first place.
People always bitch about Rey "having no training!" but that brief spiel with Maz in the basement is about the exact same amount of training Luke had in ANH, and if you notice, she follows the advice Maz gave her during the saber lock with Kylo.
>>67936851
Also doesn't help that the actor daisy just comes off as snobbish instead of heroic. She doesn't have that actress quality that heroines need. She desperatley needed at least a hint of grace. Instead she looks like an edgy teen girl going through her fuck you dad phase.
>>67936965
>that moment where Finn literally SQUEE XDs with Rey
star wars is dead to me
>>67937063
yeah god forbid these people have a sense of wonder and adventure and are excited about all the great things they're doing
everyone should be mopey static robots like in the prequels! Didn't you hate it in ANH when Leia shouted WE DID IT! and hugged Chewie when they destroyed the tie fighters? Fuck that
>>67936965
>Finn was 100x more interesting as a character than Rey.
All of the characters were more interesting than her really.
>>67936996
>but that brief spiel with Maz in the basement is about the exact same amount of training Luke had in ANH,
I guess, if you ignore the parts where obi wan is training luke.
>>67933895
this.
/thread
>>67933976
I fly cessnas and have over 1500 hours of flight experience solo.
Does that mean I can hop in an F22 and go flying through the grand canyon?
>>67937003
Western female protagonists indeed lack grace.
>>67934300
Anikyn only got into orbit because of the auto-pilot and then proceeded to get shot down and crash land accidentally in a hanger and then fly his way out of there pod racer style.
>>67937220
The only part he "trains" Luke is the five second bit on the Millennium Falcon where he basically tells Luke the exact same thing Maz tells Rey
"close your eyes, feel the force around you, let it guide your actions" is basically what both mentors tell their student
>>67936996
>If she were really a mary sue, she would never have been captured in the first place.
That's not how it works. I also see how you forgot
>without 0 training not only manages to resist a force mind probe but push kylo back in just a few seconds (she didn't learn this after repeated sessions, but on the fly)
>similarly she also learns to mind control someone to release her instantly with 0 training
>she escapes all on her own
>later on she whoops kylo's ass in lightsaber combat despite, yet again, never having used a lightsaber before (it was also established that her weapon of choice was a stick)
And the list goes on.
The consequences of her getting captured was 0 and only serve as a vehicle for her to show everyone how competent at everything she is.
>>67937365
yeah and after that he never uses the light saber again to combat anyone until episode 3
>>67937365
This argument might hold up except for the fact that Luke was worthless minus the ending. Rey on the hand did tons more sue stuff before and after maz.
>>67936965
What could've been if Finn were the only protag without Rey
>>67937429
sorry meant episode 6.
>>67933241
>Defeated Darth Vader with under 1 year of training.
>Defeated Ren with under 1 minute of training.
Wew lad. Good comparison.
>>67937365
>The only part he "trains" Luke is the five second bit
You do understand that the movie is not going at real time, right? That with those scenes they establish that Obi Wan is training Luke along the journey, right?
On Tatooine - Luke was a great pilot and marksman.
Literally flew down a canyon at high speed and literally shot at targets smaller than 2m on a regular basis.
And he was still treated like shit by everyone he knew, except Biggs who was his big brother figure and inspiration to leave Tatooine and Ben, who was keeping an eye on him.
>it's another "Is Rey a Mary Sue?" episode
Holy shit, I feel like /tv/ will still be talking about this for another year.
>>67937593
and Vader would have fucked him without Han's intervention
"The Force is strong in this one."
>>67937345
anon you're comparing live actors to animation. You're looking foolish.
Which character were kids supposed to relate to the most? I related most to Han Solo, and he's an old guy who dies.
>>67937654
It won't ever end. /tv/ has been turned into a Star Wars discussion forum. This is the future you chose.
>>67936561
>I hate to sound like Anita but (sounds like Anita)
>>67936561
Only idiots defend Anakin. Anakin is shit-tier, and child Anakin is absolutely definitely a Mary Sue. It's not a comparison you can use to defend Rey, I'm afraid.
>>67938251
>child Anakin is absolutely definitely a Mary Sue
You can say this as many times as you like but he doesn't fit the paramaters of a Sue at all.
He's not a well written character but he's not a Sue by the definition.
>>67936874
These people are depressingly common because they comprise of two usually seperate groups:
A) Die hard Star Wars fanboys
B) SJWs
But yeah I'm with you, comparisons with Luke are just so painfully obviously untrue that it's depressing how desperate people are to swallow it.
>>67936996
A) Luke had plenty more training than that in ANH
B) If he'd fought and defeated Vader in that movie you may have had a point, but he didn't so you don't
InB4 "Kylo isn't as strong as Vader" - doesn't matter, he fulfills the same narrative role
Kylo is just a moody little ballbag. The least cool baddie in cinema history.
Vader was cool as FUCK right from his opening scene.
>>67938312
Expand on this? He's extremely good-natured, strong in the force, an amazing pilot, able to build a droid from scratch...seems pretty Sue to me
>>67938516
you're a fucking moron mate. you'd like that, wouldn't you? Me wasting time explaining what you already know and laughing at me wasting time.
fuck off you pathetic troll and waste your own life
>>67935962
In the movies, yes completely.
But in the books it's another story. he is not as competent and also he is way more older. So him being experienced enough to beat the shit out of orcs and be a talented tactician make more sense.
this entire film was a meme
it was a Meme Wars
>>67938665
>Film
It was light cinéma.
>>67938554
Okay now I see your point, good explanation there frrrrrriendo (:
>>67938711
This generic flick you call that cinéma??
It was pretty much a parody of SW
>let's see what it looks like with minorities
>>67933901
You're trying to preach rationale to a bunch of fucking chimps. Just laugh at the monkeys and move on.
>>67933901
I don't remember Rey receiving welfare checks from Space Obama, tard. I'd argue a fucking ruined garbage desert planet is an objectively more hostile environment than the hood
>>67938554
Fucking rekt.
>>67933597
white knight
>>67938093
That's not true.
We talk about Batman v Superman too.
It doesn't matter if you can justify why she's so skilled. You can always hand-wave strengths by saying "oh they learned it by training for a gazillion years offscreen"
What matters is she doesn't have any weaknesses or character flaws, and therefore lacks depth.
There's no excitement when you know she's going to effortlessly succeed at anything she tries.
That's the problem.
Luke in ANH:
>Nobody respected him
>Naive and irrational
>Couldn't fight well with a lightsaber
>Good aim from shooting womp rats
>Adept X-Wing pilot since his landspeeder has similar controls
Rey in TFA:
>Everyone immediately likes her
>Beats a sith lord with no prior lightsaber experience
>Knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han does
>Essentially takes on the role of both Han and Luke by the end of the movie
>Good at using blaster despite having never touched one before
>Leia cares more about her than she does Chewie
>Rey isn't a Mary Sue
Why won't you let this meme die?
>>67939596
that sounds annoying to watch
>>67939588
>There's no excitement when you know she's going to effortlessly succeed at anything she tries.
not in the sequels
>>67939226
you're a fucking rectum, mate
Kylo Ren >>> Darth Vader
he killed his own father. vader is a bitch. he was a soft pussy to his son that he has never seen.
>>67939641
What point are you even trying to make?
>>67939641
You don't know that.
Plenty of people loved just watching her kick ass and having no flaws, they may very well continue that way.
And even if things were to pick up later on, that still leaves TFA a bad film.
>>67939730
you know what I fucking liked
I liked that a girl, who was pretty much a nobody, was more in tune with the real spirit of the force than some faggot bitch boy who thought he was hot shit because he had Vader's midichlorians in him and she kicked his ass
it was a subtle fuck you to the space jesus shit in the prequels, and I dig it. Sorry you think Star Wars has to be subversive edgy entertainment like your Game of Throneses and Breaking Bads.
>>67939821
Autism
>>67933241
>>ace pilot
Not really. He used the force to get the shot on the Death Star, but wasn't all that amazing apart from that
>>super gifted force user
Son of Vader
>>destroyed the Death Star
Yes, because he was able to use the force to hit the weak spot. Non-force users were also hoped to be capable of doing this with a targeting computer
>>held his own against Darth Vader in their first meating and impressed him
>meating
>pic related
>>defeated Darth Vader with under 1 year of training
Vader was clearly having doubts at this point
>>the same Darth Vader who crushed all Jedi and resistance fighters in his 20 years of serving the Emperor
Vader didn't actually fight that many jedi. He possibly only killed Obi-Wan himself. He was powerful with the force, but so was Luke.
>>67939821
Then you're a fucking idiot, and your presence in the movie going public drags the standard down for the rest of us. I don't want to say "kill yourself" like an edgelord, but maybe stop paying for movies at least?
>>67932804
Only Max Landis thinks she's a Mary Sue.
>>67933709
>Except that goes against the Sith code and the Dark side. Vader only wanted Luke if he was strong enough to help him overthrow the Emperor. The novel (approved by Lucas btw) makes that clear.
Vader was testing to see if Luke could handle himself, sure. But that doesn't mean he was going flat out to kill him. He was obviously nowhere near using his full powers.
>>67939821
>I liked that a girl, who was pretty much a nobody, was more in tune with the real spirit of the force than some faggot bitch boy who thought he was hot shit because he had Vader's midichlorians in him and she kicked his ass
I just hope they won't ruin it by making Rey related to Luke/Obi-Wan/Palpatine.
>>67933017
>muh director
directors aren't allowed to decide shit in modern hollywood
kathleen kennedy was much more influential than jj
>>67939821
Oh, you're one of those people who think that if you didn't like TFA very much, that means you love the prequels. No. The prequels were shit, and TFA was pretty bad too.
Is it true that people who find Rey attractive are closeted pedophiles/homosexuals?
>>67940089
I think people who think like you just enjoy hating the new star wars movie so much you can't, or don't want to, comprehend the possibility that TFA is a good movie
>>67939890
>Non-force users were also hoped to be capable of doing this with a targeting computer
yup, but Vader fucked them all
>>67940135
I didn't hate it. I just thought it was a bad movie. I didn't have any high expectations either, I expected something on the level of Star Trek 2009, and got Into Darkness.
>>67940135
How convenient that you believe something which allows you to instantly dismiss any criticism of TFA
>>67940279
let me guess, it was bad because
>niggers kikes sjw feminism mary sue!
>>67932887
she had her ways
>>67940229
True, but Luke would also have been taken out if it weren't for Han swooping in to cover him. It wasn't because Luke himself was special (except that Han gave just enough of a shit to help him).
>You're all clear, kid, now let's blow this thing and go home
>>67940229
As he was about to fuck Luke, were it not for Han
>>67940318
I bet you're one of the people who thinks it's sexist to criticise the new Ghostbusters movie too, aren't you?
>>67940362
yeah I was agreeing with you. Those pilots may have shot the vent but vader stoped it.
And yes Han saved Luke, vader was about to take him out too.
>>67940121
You tell me.Plutt lusted after Rey for 15 years
>>67940402
>I bet you're one of the people who thinks it's sexist to criticise the new Ghostbusters movie too, aren't you?
No, the new ghostbusters looks bad because it's unfunny as fuck and relies on nostalgiabaiting for its own sake instead of using it to make a thematic point
most people who hate TFA refuse to engage with the material and just say shit like "hurr durr female protag, nigger lead, it sucks"
>>67940121
No
>>67940412
Ah cool.
Really all this thread is doing is making me excited to rewatch the OT before TFA comes out on home release.
What the fuck were they thinking with that robot donkey thing?
Genuinely fucking slow and useless design.
>>67940121
But I'm not in the closet.
>>67932804
She has zero flaws.
>>67940484
>most people who hate TFA refuse to engage with the material and just say shit like "hurr durr female protag, nigger lead, it sucks"
if you ignore ALL the cogent arguments being presented on this page alone
very few people say what you've suggested, that's just an excuse to demonise all opposing arguments
>>67940513
You mean this thing?
I think it's kinda cool in a is-it-organic-or-droid kind of way
>>67940567
She's a virgin.
>>67940121
No? Daisy is cute as fuck. She's not supermodel hot, but that's part of the appeal I think. She looks attainable and someone you'd know irl.
>>67940121
Rey is like a reverse trap. Nothing wrong with that tbhfam.
>>67940513
>>67940590
I don't get why the rider put up with Rey jacking his shit, or even why Rey even cared that much. He found it, he should get to do what he wants with it.
Although, then again she magically knows every single fucking language, even droid's. And despite what the previous 6 movies taught us, droids are suddenly people too.
What a shitty fucking movie.
>>67932804
a scavenger that was able to perfectly identify and repair core spaceship functionalities that even a space veteran couldn't when she hasn't had a day of training for this kind of thing in her life
>>67940441
IS THIS TRUE?!
>>67940484
>most people who hate TFA refuse to engage with the material
Read this thread mate. Plenty of people, myself included, have gone into great detail about why it sucks. This isn't uncommon, either - the flaws in the movie are very easily identified. In fact, we've only really discussed Rey here, but I could talk for hours on how rushed the whole thing is, how lazy and JJ-esque the entire character of Maz is, or how awful it is that the entire plot literally stops for the death star rehash, or how R2D2 comes online for literally no reason at the end, etc etc etc...
>>67940590
it is the opposite of the Star Wars design ethic. There really is no visible reason to design it that way at all and it's laughably slow, too.
>>67940594
A female being a virgin is not a flaw.
