>>67924181
So Batman is actually killing people in this movie, right? I thought that was against Batman's whole philosophy.

>>67924181
I don't care what you think

>>67924210
Who cares, man. The Star Wars did it, they blew up a whole planet.

>>67924248
What are you talking about? Did I miss some fresh new meme?

>>67924268
Zack Snyder used "Star Wars did it" as his reasoning for why Batman kills in this movie.

>>67924210

No, he's leaving people to die while they still have a chance to live after stabbing them in the lungs, crushing their vehicles while they are trapped inside, throwing them into confined spaces with a live grenade, shooting a tank full of gas while its strapped to the back of someone and shooting live ammunition at pick up trucks that happen to have people standing next to them

>>67924268

>superman and batman kill a few dozen people at most and is reamed
>star wars kills BILLIONs and is applauded

fucking hypocrites

>>67924210
No you see, the greatness of the batman actor is correlated to the amount of people he kills

That's why ben and Keaton are the best and Clooney is the worst

>parents killed by gun-toting thug
>become gun-toting thug to get justicelol?!?!

>>67924181
Alfred was such a smooth operator. I hope we see more if him and batman working together

>>67924330
>tfw Christian Bale is now completely forgotten as having ever played Batman

>>67924401
He's the third best, he killed more than Val who only had one kill

>>67924401

Bale had like the highest kill count of all with his dojo destruction bullshit

>>67924210
>>67924335
Thats because he's been damaged by a certain dc villain

>>67924436
Zack, you gotta remember to include stuff like that in the actual movie, bro.

>There's a clear arc set up with the bat brand of Batman becoming more cruel after Superman shows up
>The news reveals dramatically that "THE BAT BRAND IS EFFECTIVELY A DEATH SENTENCE"
>Alfred gives him shit about branding another villain saying how cruel it is and how he's going too far and he didn't use to be like this
>Batman chooses not to brand Lex at the end to honor Superman

I feel like there was a story here where Batman didn't kill people, but Snyder just got carried away with how COOL and RAD his action scenes were without considering that Batman shouldn't be killing people.

>>67924436
This is why BvS is fucking everything up for this universe. You literally have to come into it with your own headcanon in order for shit to make sense in it.

>>67924479
I still don't get why having a Bat brand on you in prison would get you killed.

>what you in for?
>what you got the shit beaten out of you by Batman?!?!
>fuck you faggot ur gonna die!!!

That literally makes more sense if Batman secretly has his own prison gang or something.

>>67924181
goddamn Snyder
when he's good he's good
when he fucks up he pretty much divides by zero

>>67924460

>HA HA HA on a dead Robin's suit

are you really that retarded or did you not see the movie?

>>67924524
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Pedophiles already get the shit beat out of them in prison and I don't know how or why or when Batman would have released a PSA to Gotham's prison saying, "I ONLY BRAND THE REALLY BAD GUYS THAT YOU SHOULD KILL."

>>67924479
>I feel like there was a story here where Batman didn't kill people, but Snyder just got carried away with how COOL and RAD his action scenes were without considering that Batman shouldn't be killing people.

For fucks sake, Alfred says in the movie that he didnt use to be like this.
He started killing after the Zod invasion. He was fucked up after Jason died, and Superman fight in metropolis just pushed him over the edge.

>>67924460
>>67924484

everything you need to know is staring you in the face

Robin's defaced costume with the words "haha jokes on you batman" is a pretty big give away and then there's the expository dialogue from Alfred

Shit there's probably more scenes but the above two are the ones that come to mind.

>>67924549
>>67924587
>>67924606

The problem though is that this isn't actual character arc shit. These are just allusions to a previous incarnation of the character. This Batman in this story is starting out as a crazed murderer. This works great in the Dark Knight Returns because it's an arc about the lone crazy man in a crazy world willing to point out just how crazy it is. In this movie, it's just used as a substitute for an origin story. It isn't about Batman going back to the way he was, it's about this new Batman starting out as a literal criminal that murders other criminals and then I guess learning from these mistakes, but you can't just move past murdering people. He's now no better than the Joker, and while this is a cool and grimdark way to do your "hero" it completely takes away from the entire point of superheroes.

>>67924748

>starting out as a literal criminal that murders other criminals

If you think the Batman in this movie is just now starting, you 100% have not seen the movie. Get the fuck out.

>>67924181
Can someone upload the webm with this whole scene?

>>67924831
I'm talking about his character's arc in this movie. All the backstory stuff isn't the beginning of his arc. The movie is very clear about introducing him as a character that is killing and shooting people.

>>67924484
Thats why this movie is a 10/10 4 me

I love what Snyder's done

>>67924902

No, the movie is damn clear that this is a "change" brought about by the frustration of a broken Batman and the emergence of Metahumans. Alfred's whole "That's how it starts..." speech and all. I told you to leave if you haven't seen the movie but you're still here for some reason.

>>67924748
Don't know about you but I'm tired of Batman origins. We all know how he started and everything about him already it'd be pointless to include shit again

>>67924748
>These are just allusions to a previous incarnation of the character. This Batman in this story is starting out as a crazed murderer. This works great in the Dark Knight Returns because it's an arc

Is this where your retarded ass claims you can't have a subtle backstory and that you must start the story at the start every time?

You want a million fucking origin stories?

One of the few good things about BvS was that they didn't fucking do that. No long flashbacks to Batman fighting Joker or crying over a dead Robin.

The character's been around for almost a century. There are at least 9 movies, 1 live action show, several animated shows, dozens of animated movies.. I think the backstory is well enough known you can trust the audience to follow along at this point.

>>67924947
>>67924966
>>67925046
The point I'm making is that it isn't treated as a major character departure so much as a "phase" or like a lazy device to give his character an arc. You can't have him do shit that fundamentally crosses the line of the entire reason why he ever decided to become Batman specifically and not just some vigilante and then just take it back because he remembers. He starts out the story as a former hero turned murderer then has him just go back to hero. It feels like Snyder is honestly not interested in Superheroes as actual heroes but as big violent monsters killing and destroying everything without exploring the ramifications of that except as like a little throwaway thing that's never fully explored. He did it with Superman and he's doing it with Batman. I'm sorry, but you can't just make Batman killing people a "phase" he goes through. Death means a lot in his worldview and when you take that away, it makes the character kind of generic. I guess it just looks cool seeing a big fat batman shooting and crushing people so whatever.

>>67925409
>I'm sorry, but you can't just make Batman killing people a "phase" he goes through.

Did you ever read the comics?

>>67925441
Sorry, let me fix that.

You can't just make Batman killing people a "phase" he goes through if you want to make a compelling or good Batman story.

>>67925409
m8, it's past your bedtime

>>67924587
>For fucks sake, Alfred says in the movie that he didnt use to be like this.

But that's literally my point. Alfred is getting uppity because Batman branded (GASP) another criminal and indirectly killing him. By the time they report that another criminal had been banned, they state that the first criminal he branded was in critical condition after an attack. By the time the movie starts, Batman had branded like only a handful of criminals. The one we see may even just be the second one.

And Alfred is telling him he's taking it too far. By virtue of Batman just tying up and branding that first guy, the human trafficker, it feels like Batman doesn't just murder criminals.

But then the batmobile scene comes along and Batman casually kills like 10 people. It's so jarring.

>>67925478
>whaaaaaa Snyders Batman doesn't follow by favorite comic's Batman
every serious take on Batman in movies has had him kill at some point
older movies had him directly blow up groups of people with bombs and missiles and throw them off roofs

>>67925511
literally no confirmed kills in any scene though except for flamethrower man and his buddy

>>67925557
If you're going to take on the subject of Batman killing then you have to take it on in a way that makes sense in the rules you set up for the character. Also, every serious take on Batman is like, what, 3 movies (not including this one)? The Nolan movies still made a point of showing that he doesn't willingly kill. I'm not saying I am a fan of the Nolan movies, but they did have rules that they followed.

>>67924748
The character arc is fine. This is a story of damaged man finding peace with the world. Allusions work out great because we know too much shit about baman at this point so there is at least some room for the brain to work. Even if you don't know shit, the dialogue between Bruce and Alfred ("bla bla you know that people in this town don't stay proper heroes for long" or something) tell us enough backstory to understand and appreciate what is going on.

>>67925661
By serious i mean everything except Clooney.
Earlier Batmans had easy double digit kill counts and nobody's shitting themselves over them. This one has a reasonable rationale behind it yet still people don't get the concept. Regardless of any of this, we're looking at 2 dead for sure and the rest are assumptions, so there goes the murderous lunatic argument.

>>67925608
I feel like the car that he just plows through as it goes up in a fireball is a confirmed kill. Then there's more borderline stuff like the car that he flips like three times, harpoons, drags behind him for a while, and then whips into another car resulting in an explosion. And the slow-motion scene where he busts out of the side of the building in the batmobile and shears off the top of the truck and it shows him basically running over a guy before cutting back to the truck and he's missing is a confirmed kill. And that guy he punches and just leaves in a room with a grenade.

>>67925874
Also I feel like Bats shooting the flamethrower dude was to prevent Superman from going berserk like in the Knightmare as a result of his mother dying.

>>67925822

not just peace with the world but SALVATION

the symbolism has a purpose, SUPES IS BATMAN'S JESUS
he literally dies for his sins and gives hope again

B R A V O S N Y D E R
R
A
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O

>>67925874
The Burton Batman movies are a whole other discussion.

As far as Battfleck is concerned, you can't color it as he only killed two people tops when the entire philosophy and theme of this universe is the destruction of a city via reckless behavior from Superman. Batman is acting equally recklessly and is by proxy causing people to die. He isn't thinking rationally at this point in his career right? Okay cool, explore that, but don't make it a plot device to have him fight Superman and and then just throw all that away afterwards.

GRIM DARK
R
I
M

D
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R
K

>>67925822
If the movie spent half as much time flashing back to his origin, and instead used that time to better illustrate his 20 years as Batman and the downward spiral, it would have helped immensely.