>How could Flash be in the Batman's dream!? Expain this DCfags!!
>Not noticing it wasn't a dream
How are retarded people allowed to watch kino?
>>67904183
looks like a good hdcam. sauce?
>>67904183
yea but why he mexican doe?
BvS was exactly the kinotherapy this board needed
>exposed RT drones
>people's complaints get proven to be pleb-tier with ADD when discussed
>brought forth an avalanche of butthurt from comicbookfags
What a time to be alive
>>67904183
speed force nigga
>>67904183
Should have been a Present Daniel Faraday (Flash) tells Past Desmond something and Present Day Desmond (Batman) sees it in a present day dream, but in fact both moments happen at the same time just in different time frames.
Basicslly Flash travels back in time, warns Batman, present Day Batman sees it as a memory whilst he's sleeping.
It was supposed to be ambiguous and not even Snyder could tell you if it was real or not.
There isn't really a reason for that ambiguity.
>>67904183
Cause Flash went to sleep, Martian Manhunter got into his head and Flash speedforced in his dreams and went back in time to someone's else's dreams. It was obvious
Are you retarded or something?
i haven't watched this movie yet, what does the flash do? is this it? just stand around as a ball of light and disappear?
>>67904183
I'm nervous about seeing this at the flicks this week. It looks so dissapointing.
Life's already shit at the moment. Games are shit. TV is shit. Netflix and others are shit. Movies are shit.
I know it's capeshit but I thought this movie would capekino. I might end up killing myself after watching this.
Obviously batman and flash are already well acquainted already in the DC universe at this point. Personally I thought it was Robin at first.
>>67906418
It's not ambiguous if you pay attention to the flying papers dummy. Stylistically it's meant to invoke the feeling you get when you've just woken up from a dream, and still question if it was real or not.
>>67906538
Man, it's fucking great. More than half of /tv/ agrees, but the shitposters that hated it are just very loud.
>>67906591
Just watched the webm. I think that flying paper is the one that's on the table just when Bruces awakes (0:13)
>>67906519
right after the Knightmare sequence he appears to Bruce and warns him about always being ''right about him'' and Lois being the key, then realizes he traveled back too early in time and Bruce wakes up again or something
the second time is on a security camera stopping a robbery on his civvies
>>67906182
this is the correct answer
the grey hair it is more visible in the dream than when he wakes up
>>67906538
It is capekino, it's awesome. Beautiful, brutal fights. Don't believe the detractors. Better than most Marvel and easily better than Nolan.
>>67906743
>that Instagram vid with Tom playing b-ball and says Grant is cool
oh gosh~
>>67906693
Wrong.
>>67904183
this is the first time I see that single sheet of paper flying
this means he was knocked out by the speed force, doesn't it?
>>67906802
>you will never bro down w the comfiest cast on tv
>>67906538
I saw it opening day but didn't know why reviewers thought it was shit
go in KNOWING that the pacing is shitty as fuck. I hated the editing but liked the overall product (7/10). it angers me how proper pacing could've made this a 9/10
>>67904183
Is this why so many people complained about the color grading? Looks awful in this scene
>>67906811
Or maybe i'm just blind
What I don't get that the dream itself seemed like a premonition of superman blaming batman for something happening to lois?? And then when he wakes up flash comes and says he was right blah blah. Like since when is batman clairvoyant???
>>67906884
The Flash crew and iZombie crew need to face off, then go out for pancakes
>>67906952
Yea, because of a camrip. You're doing great.
>>67906591
Snyder is literally a poet
>>67906952
this is the first time I hear that being mentioned. the colours were fine as fuck. even liked it in 3D (the colour tends to be darker through the glasses)
>>67906937
The editing is fine, the pacing is fine, your attention span isn't.
>>67906952
it's a camrip
>>67904183
Theory: he wasn't.
Bruce's vision was a residual effect of Flash's use of the speedforce to fuck wry time.
Then he "woke" from his vision and Flash was there. "Am I too early?" He says - then proceeds to go back to before that conversation, undoing it. Making it so Barry never flashed into the bat cave.
That's when Bruce woke up.
For the first time.
From what he thought was a normal dream.
It's poorly explained, but I'm pretty sure that's why the papers were flying around the second time Bruce wakes up. Barry undid the conversation Barry had because Barry was too early.
>>67906795
>>67906645
made me feel better desu senpaii hope guys are right, if you see this happy pepe in a BvS thread later this week or the next it'll be me agreeing with you that it was great. if you don't that means I'm dead.
>>67906984
agreed, really hope that happens in some form
>>67906728
wow so there's more than one cameo
it's pretty disgusting how this movie was made with no passion and just to shoe horn another synder movie Watchice League
>>67906969
Why would Superman do all that shit because Lois died? It seems just a little excessive.
>>67907025
Just be warned that you need to pay attention, everything is there for a reason. And asking questions after the fact isn't a bad thing.
>>67906969
this is a world with psychics, new gods, boom tubes, time travel, it's not Nolan's muh realism anymore, autists can get off the ride now
>>67907025
>talking to a samefag
lel
>>67907025I'll remeber you anon
>>67906562
>Obviously batman and flash are already well acquainted already in the DC universe at this point.
I don't think so.
>>67907013
for the record, I'm one of the few people here that always defend the movie but the pacing was horrible
>implying I wasn't able to pay attention and get everything
I understood everything the plot had to offer but the scenes were all over the place during the first half. scenes changed far too abruptly without being related to one another
>>67907069
Everything is there for a reason, it's more of a deconstruction of the genre than people realize. Yeah, they had to set up a cinematic universe, but they even gave a twist to the Justice League tease scene by adding some meta-commentary about this type of typical post-credit scene in there.
>>67907069
>it's pretty disgusting how this movie was made with no passion
Russos please go work on your cellphone commercial tier cinematography pls
>>67906170
>kinotherapy
thats a pretty neat turn of phrase anon, im going to put it in my next script
>>67907128
I wish everyone that used the word deconstruction had an I-beam collide with their face
>>67907122
agreed, i liked it a lot, and i'm sure it'll be better on subsequent viewings, but there were some curious or disorienting choices when it came to editing or pacing. Minor complaint in an otherwise very good film.
>>67904183
It wasn't actually a dream. He woke up to the flash screaming at him, fell asleep again for no reason, then woke up again after having a Freudian nightmare about his dad eating his penis.
>>67907069
it's pretty disgusting how this movie was made with no passion and just to shoe horn another synder movie Watchice League
how was anything but the justice league videos shoehorned?
>flash nightmare sequence
>darkseid nightmare sequence
people are retarded if they think those scenes didn't fit into the movie
>movie is about whether the world needs superman
>movie is about some people thinking superman is bad
this is exactly what those scenes were supposed to showcase
>>67907122
Well, agree to disagree, didn't find the pacing jarring or disjointed. Liked the big grand epic feel of the varying scene tones between scenes.
>>67906459
kek
>>67907070
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVa8KYgFoLs
>>67907072
this is why the film is shit but also why it will remain terrible. 'fans' claiming the flick is deep and meaningful. it was a poorly written pile of garbage.
>>67906645
This guy is a dirty liar. In its current form, it is ass.
>>67907220
maybe I have to see it a second time to be sure
maybe it's also that some scenes were left out which would've complemented the movie even better (like the communion scene those motherfuckers should've added straight away to the movie)
when you look at the big picture, every scene had its place and purpose but they should've just slowed it down a notch
>>67907245
>he's too dumb to realize all the nuances in the film
>>67907245
>implying there is a better written capeshit movie other than spider-man 2, the first two nolan batman movies and watchmen
>>67907289
>like the communion scene those motherfuckers should've added straight away to the movie
Wait, link?
![1458801778106[3].png](https://i.imgur.com/u7bBixu.png "1458801778106[3].png")
>>67907167
It is what it is, deal with it.
The banepost in that scene was intentional, pic related.
Also that whole JL teaser scene is made that way to feel as if Bats, Diana, and Lex are sharing memes with one another. Post-credit scenes are basically packaged to be shared virally.
The critique and frustration signal that those teases emotionally did their job, while also literally providing a DECONSTRUCTION of those kinds of teases in general.
>half assed teases forced into the movie at the end of production
how is this not literally all post credit scenes that have been placed literally at the end of the movies
we had already noted a lot of the hypocrisy of the reviews of bvs, but now the shit thrown at bvs are not actually faults of the movie specifically but of our own preconceptions of comicbook superhero movies
all the reviews read as such
>not what i wanted it to be
>i didn't catch all the logistics, fault the movie for not picking up on it
>the fact that i'm asking questions about the movie is somehow a fault of the movie
>the precise internal mechanics of the movie and their connection with my perception of the movie in relation to the story escaped me
>the movie presents an idea that is not only valid with the movie universe but in real life as well
The main complaint was that the scene breaks continuity, it's spliced right after Superman flies off to Gotham to face Batman. Snyder basically said, fuck it, I'm going to put this shit in the place where most people will get annoyed by it, because everyone paid just to watch Batman and Superman fight. In itself proving that these scenes are manipulative corporate garbage.
>>67907232
Technically, these aren't the same. Superman goes bad there because Joker blew up Metropolis and killed hundreds of thousands of people. In this, the only thing he mentions is Lois dying.
I enjoy DC and Marvel flicks.
I havnt seen BvS yet but I get the feeling that all these bad "critic" reviews are normie people fresh of the Marvel movies bandwagon with lighthearted fun etc.
Wasn't Man of Steel not good with the critics? And I fucking enjoyed that thoroughly.
>>67907339
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s
>>67907302
>superman = god
>batman = man
2deep4me. also having nuances is completely unnecessary given that its fucking batman vs superman / capeshit.
I didnt watch Lex's deleted scene w/ Darkseid's old man yet but it would have been pretty vital to see Lex getting some dank kryptonian knowledge. It's obviously implied, which was fine, but still, some hints at what he was able to learn may have went a long way. By the end, he likely knew a shit ton of info and was a changed man.
I liked Lex, but especially in the context that this was his origin story. He'll be able to be even shrewder and more brutal going forward.
>>67907128
>Everything is there for a reason
>it's more of a deconstruction of the genre than people realize.
I'm not sure what level of delusion you have to be operating on to actually believe that Zack Snyder enough self awareness or talent to do this.
>>67907434
Kek, cry more faggot. Feel free to read these great discussions.Of course I know you won't.Stay in denial.
Read these discussion threads and watch plebeians get BTFO when they're out of their depth.
http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/67754364/
http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/67879770/
>>67907428
(samefag)
Yeah, just watched it>>67907418
They really should have left it in.
>>67907434
>I'm not sure what level of delusion you have to be operating on to actually believe that Zack Snyder enough self awareness or talent to do this.
Go share your hot take on Facebook with the rest of the normies. Leave kino to us.
>>67907418
Honestly, as cool as this would have been, it still wouldn't fix the film. But I can think of a ton of utterly pointless scenes in the film that could have been cut out for this.
>>67907491
I really hope the ultimate cut is god-tier and that I will love it even more than I loved man of steel
>>67907434
god, people like you are so stupid and pathetic. it's all about hatred and being blinded by said hatred. it's always black and white, good and bad instead of being able to like something even though it's flawed
shit, I like all marvel movies (except for age of ultron) and at the same time love the DCMU so far. every movie has its ups and downs, fuck
>>67906459
>he went to speedforce in his sleep
>"Are you retarded or something?"
>>67907393
>I havnt seen BvS yet but I get the feeling that all these bad "critic" reviews are normie people fresh of the Marvel movies bandwagon with lighthearted fun etc.
Your prediction is correct. Honestly, most of these "arguments" can be dismantled just by staying awake during the movie.
>>67904183
HELP ME BRUCE
>>67907423
>also having nuances is completely unnecessary given that its fucking batman vs superman / capeshit.
Ladies and gentlemen, it's Marvelfag!
>>67907573
>utterly pointless scenes in the film that could have been cut out for this.
I heard people say "pointless scenes" a couple of times now. care to mention any? genuinely asking because I thought so too during my watching the movie but in the end everything made sense
>>67907637
>I really hope the ultimate cut is god-tier
It will be. Really would be great to see it in theaters, but in any case it's an exciting proposition it even exists.
>>67907670
Good. I'm sick of marvel movies desu. Man of Steel was and BvS looks to be refreshing.
Always saw and preferred the darker tone of DC heroes desu
>>67906591
It is completely ambiguous. Stylistically, Bruce has the exact same "wake up from a nightmare" action twice in a row. There is one CGI piece of paper floating around in the background after he wakes up the second time for that WAS IT A DREAM!?!? moment.
And Bruce even reacts to the situation as though it were a dream.
Obviously, the Flash doesn't penetrate your dreams, so it should probably be taken as it being real, but to say it isn't ambiguous is completely moronic. It was intentionally set up to be ambiguous.
>>67907393
yeah, they're blowing it way, and I mean WAY out of proportion
relatively few seem to mention the pacing, which was the actual problem of the movie. it made the cameos strange as hell and some scenes very wtf-worthy
the movie "not being any fun" is stupid because many people enjoyed it.
can't say I blame the masses for not liking it since I could instantly tell that normies wouldn't get everything going on in the movie. people expected marvel, which I can't blame them for either since modern movies seem to treat the human brain like the brain of an infant, and instead they got a fast-paced movie with symbolism and unorthodox action scenes
>>67907749
this flick was still shit. get mad all you like bozo. people might try and kid themselves that it's a great piece of artistic brilliance but only because they don't want to admit they wasted 3 and a half hours of their life and countless days waiting in anticipation only for it to end in disappointment.
unlucky lad
>>67907791
I like Marvel movies (definitely gonna watch Civil War), but I don't treat them as serious films. Not like DCkino.
>>67907637
>it's all about hatred and being blinded by said hatred. it's always black and white, good and bad instead of being able to like something even though it's flawed
See this is all projection based on your own personal insecurity, because I never said the film was 0/10 awful. I just said that, based on the films I've seen directed by Zack Snyder as well as his interviews, I just don't believe he could ever make a true deconstruction of a genre.
He tried with Watchmen, which was literally a deconstruction of the superhero, and failed miserably.
>>67907913
>this flick was still shit.
Great argument.
>>67907911
>>67907933
>>67907760
>>67907670
it's nice when a BvS thread is full of good people and not cry baby mongos
>>67907128
>the forced setup for JL was an ironic commentary on this superhero movies cliche
Jesus Christ, just fuck off and die
>>67907489
Do threads stay in the archive forever?
>>67907760
>movie reaches 800 million globally
>ultimate cut is released
>"ultimate cut also available in theaters guys!!!"
>cinemas put the movie in their programmes again
>BvS reached 2 billion in half a month
>>67907911
Not that anon but good points
Part of the problem may be the disconnect between younger/normie fans and the final kino. As I was going into the theater two adorable young girls, like 9-10 were wearing Batman and Superman capes and looked so excited. This isnt a movie for them. I'm glad it's not, because it's great, and DC has Supergirl, The Flash, and a lot of other stuff for them, but i guess i'm trying to say, like you, most people expected a by the numbers, light Marvel movie. No surprises, nothing remotely challenging, clean, clear, "laugh now," etc.
>>67907913
>3 and a half hours
confirmed for not having seen the movie and still shitposting. marveldrones ladies and gentlemen
>>67908002
You're cool too, anon.
>>67906353
Lost was kino without even being a movie
>>67907972
>watchmen was bad
how much of a retard do you have to be, jesus christ?
>>67908002
Agreed, i'm actually glad to see fans here.
>>67908002
it annoys me how I as a semi pleb (in my eyes) tend to have proper discussions on /tv/ while the so called "film buffs" shitpost all over the place
the best threads I witnessed in a while were threads about
>special effects in movies
>symbolism
>best disney movies (go figure)
>artsy movies
>>67908018
read
>>67907371
You're not helping your case dumbass, the movie is more self-aware than you realize.
You can see sheets of paper move in the bacground after he "wakes" up... so they probably couldn't choose is the easy answer.
>>67908075
>like 9-10 were wearing Batman and Superman capes and looked so excited
kek, poor girls. I assume they didn't understand jack shit.
that's exactly the problem I mentioned. people are so dumbed down by marvel movies, they can't take in anything else
gotta compliment marvel and disney on their excellent marketing and strategies in general though. even though they use generic formulas in their movies, they just know how to get people to watch their movies
>>67907670
if you liked man of steel, this is pretty much that, on acid and steroids. It's bigger, louder and more fun. Batfleck is awesome. A mix of Tdk returns bats with a little "arkham saga" bats. Lex luthor is an idiot though. That's my only issue with the movie, i don't the way luthor is delivered here.
>>67908197
You a Mad Men fan? Those threads used to, and still occasionally, offer the best of the board.
Anyone notice how it employs the legal title used in lawsuits?
Plaintiff v Defendant.
Snyder bamboozled everyone who expected a big dumb fight movie like Hulkbuster vs Hulk.
>>67906952
>he cant tell it isn't a dream
>now he cant tell it isn't a camrip
>>67908317
>Lex luthor is an idiot though
apart from the pacing, this was my only other issue I had
he was way too fucking crazy. if they had wanted him to be like that in the end, I would've preferred it going like
>normal lex luthor from the comics
>same plans going on
>communion scene happens halfway through movie
>he goes fucking nuts and ballistic like it basically turned out to be in BvS
>>67907181
>fell asleep again for no reason
he passed out. you would assume it was a dream like he did, if nonsensical shit like that happened
>>67908128
It was pretty bad as an adaptation of the graphic novel. Especially the theatrical cut.
>>67908339
nah, still haven't watched that
currently watching veronica mars (fuck me, but I really like it). next on my list are "the shield", "justified", and "sons of anarchy". is mad men finished yet? I only binge watch shows since I have too many shows I follow on the regular
>>67904183
BRUCE, IT'S ME FLASH!!!
I don't understand people who like this movie. Is it ironic? Is that why fans on /tv/ only talk about the movie in memes? And the fans are all obviously /co/ or /v/ crossposters who have seen like 20 other movies in their life.
Arguments for this movie not being bad often include reasoning like "it had a lot of allusions and symbolism." Allusions and symbolism aren't inherently good. They don't just inherently impart quality. I don't know if I've heard any reasons for why the movie is good, only that it's not bad.
If someone says the movie has poor pacing because it's absolutely bloated with too many scenes that it jumps around from without letting any scene fall into a satisfying rhythm before whisking off to another scene that is only tangentially related for the first hour of the movie or so, people who defend the movie will say that you just have ADD and you're dumb. If you say that the movie substitutes for allusions and symbolism and parallels for any actual exploration or commentary on a theme, they'll say you're wrong because look at all these symbols and allusions and parallels you didn't get. If you say that all of the dialogue is stilted, puffed up pretentious crap only suitable for shoving in trailers with stiff delivery that barely work in an actual sustained scene, they'll say you're wrong and dumb. The dialogue is that way because it's supposed to be "mythic," it's supposed to be detached and alien and sterile.
In this thread, the abominable five minutes between action scenes where Batman emails WW teaser trailers for upcoming DC movies is regarded as a fucking deconstruction of the genre. I wonder if the people saying this even know what a deconstruction entails.
This movie was bad. It was not the worst thing in the world. There are some good scenes, like the intro stuff with Batman and the part where Superman walks into the hearing, but it's a muddled, dour, sanctimonious, and pretentious piece of crap on the whole.
>>67908349
Yea, another problem was the v/vs thing. Should have been Superman Batman: Dawn of Justice
Supes' standing in pop culture is tenuous at best. He's "gay," "overpowered," etc to many, where Batman's so edgy and awesome. So months of CHOOSE SIDES OH FUCK WHO IS GONNA WIN only served to degrade to Superman brand. He's trying to save his mother's life and the audience is literally cheering for Batman to kick his ass.
The antagonistic stuff also pigeonholed it, marketed it as just the fight. So when it was more than that, it confused audiences.
>>67908447
I don't recall adaptions having to be a 100% copy of the source material though. even though he copied a lot of stuff from the novel, I had nothing against the movie and actually thought it was a great watch and better than 99% of other cape movies
>>67906937
what's wrong with the pacing or editing?
>>67908480
I still need to watch VM as a fan of iZombie. Justified's awesome. Mad Men is GOAT and concluded, yes. All 6 seasons on Netflix.
>>67906562
>batman and flash are already well acquainted
No. Flash is communicating to him from the future, warning him.
Batman only starts looking for other Superhumans at the end of the movie.
>Personally I thought it was Robin at first.
kek
>>67908512
read the fucking comments. in several of my posts I point out that I liked the movie even though I hated the pacing.
the scenes do fit together but on the first watch you feel like "what the fuck, this shit is going way too fast"
once you get over that and see the overall big picture, it's a great movie. I don't give a fuck about allusions and symbolism, I liked the movie in general
>Even at his most pedestrian or bombastic, Snyder makes a far more engaging film than Christopher Nolan (an executive producer of “Batman v Superman”) ever did—because Nolan presumes to know and to show, whereas Snyder wants to see. Even his slender philosophical world seems like he’s discovering it, not delivering it.
>>67908317
>>67908416
I'm constantly surprised at all my fellow fans who didn't like Luthor? Is it because it's a deviation from canon?
>>67908550
see this >>67907911
>>67908560
nice, will check it out once I'm finished with the others, maybe I'll even watch it after I'm finished with VM and the shield
you really need to watch VM
>goat tier female lead
>goat tier banter
>goat tier cases
never thought this was actually that good when my teacher recommended this to me like seven years ago
>>67908675
>Snyder makes a far more engaging film than Christopher Nolan (an executive producer of “Batman v Superman”) ever did
I'm a fan, but he's taking it way too far.
>>67908747
Sounds good, I look forward to it.
>>67908713
I usually don't give a crap about faithful representations of characters but his craziness was off the charts
sometimes I got the feeling I was watching the joker and not lex. I obviously didn't have anything against him being younger and some kind of zuckerberg-ish hipster but this was too much
I feel like a more calm version of the character would have fitted the movie way better. say what you will but michael rosenbaum (lex from smallville) would've fit here perfectly
>>67907911
>>67908747
ahh, i liked the film, but i see why people think that. Really the 4uCIA scene was a bit off putting and i would have liked Cyborg to happen during the invasion, like his current origin
I was just curious, because other than that scene i thought the pacing was fine and was a slow crescendo with peaks to keep kids from being bored. i thought the movie was fun as fuck though
>>67908657
Understanding the plot, which isn't hard and was done by almost everyone, doesn't make the plot good. Just because I know that all these different threads are working toward a common conclusion doesn't mean that them being chopped up and apparently thrown at random at timeline with some velcro and just editing them in where they landed means that they are good.
Let me ask you this. Why did we need a scene of divers finding kryptonite in the Indian Ocean when two scenes later we have Lex show someone a piece of kryptonite, talk about all of its properties, and say they found a big piece of it in the Indian Ocean? What purpose does that previous scene have? Was it necessary? Did we really need another abrupt scenery change before we were launched into another one?
What is great about the movie?
>>67908859
He's not. Nolan's movies were awful, i'm sorry.
>>67908713
Brody's got you senpai(ily)
>The devil gets, as usual, the most florid dialogue, and Jesse Eisenberg dispenses it with exuberant intelligence. He steals every scene. In a recent interview in Le Monde, Eisenberg discussed his approach to the role:
>"Luthor becomes a character from Greek tragedy. At least, that’s how I approached it, in accord with the screenwriter. He only talks about ideas, which makes him a profoundly theatrical character. I can also play on a paradox: rendering this individual funny although he behaves in an appalling way, also showing him prone to deep depressions because of his internal conflicts. I did everything I could to theatricalize him in the extreme. I had read lots of the adventures of Superman in comic books, but it was impossible to draw on them to find a way to play Luthor. Too schematic. Too much of a caricature. I reconfigured the character as if he became in fact the center of the film."
>Eisenberg’s gleeful and inventive performance suggests that he may be at his best in a tight framework that restrains his physicality and converges his acting to vocal inflections and turns of phrase, gestures and facial expressions. (Those were his great contributions to “The Social Network” as well.)
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/batman-v-superman-is-democrats-vs-republicans
The only thing that bothered me is that they kept showing again and again some scenes/shots from the beginning of the movie (like Wonder Woman's WWI picture or Batman's parents stuff), as if I needed to be reminded of something I had quite literally just seen... what the fuck?
Snyder is aware that he's dealing with one of the most iconic characters in popular mythos, he respects Superman immensely. And accordingly he strives to elevate the medium in order for it to fill Superman's shoes.
Meanwhile, entitled manchildren fail to grasp his work emotionally and intellectually, and incessantly complain about petty shit because they arrogantly believe they have the last word on how these characters should and would act, not realizing Superman belongs to no one and everyone.
Don't worry, you fucking fat fucks. Snyder's so aware of this that BvS practically took a magnificent artistic shit on you fanboys and you didn't even notice. And he knew that you weren't going to notice. The whole film criticizes this way of thinking. Most of the complaints from fanboys were actually deliberate artistic choices fully aware of the consequences. For example Joker Lex, or the JL teaser spliced right in the climax, when after all everyone just paid to watch Batman and Superman fight (for all they care they could fastforward everything else).
Snyder provides an alternative to mindless entertainment, escapism, and power fantasies. He uses Superman as the vehicle to inspire a cynical generation.
People haven't noticed that their reaction to BvS was exactly how Snyder predicted they were going to react. He understands modern society and its decay so well, that he knew he was going to get crucified by glorified bloggers and "nerds".
Just face it, you're out of your league, and you've been exposed as lacking basic film and film analysis understanding, not to mention the emotional maturity of a brick.
>>67909007
Emotional maturity. Yes; I think this movie requires a serious ability to be in constant connection with at least one of the characters on a deep level.
Most movies introduce an unrealistic emotional response to certain situations. Joking during near death experiences. Being cutesy during brawls. These moments remind us that it's a movie, and that we're nothing like these characters. BvS provides a more organic connection between the viewers and Batman, Superman, Lex, and even the senator a little.
Do you think the Flash went back in time to watch Clark put the nuts to Lois in the bathtub scene? I know I would.
![1455811225640[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/abhNq3B.jpg "1455811225640[1].jpg")
>What's the oldest lie on /tv/, Anon?
That Lex Luthor behaving like The Joker wasn't intentional.
The entire point of the movie is to show that the Superman mythos belongs to no one and everyone at the same time. This is the historical baggage that Snyder is aware these characters carry: An endless barrage of fanboys and comicbook lore since the 30's, comparison to other iconic characters, and everyone thinking they have the last word on how these characters should and would act.
Superman is Christ, Moby Dick, King Arthur, Zorro, JFK, The White Rabbit/Bugs Bunny, the Classical hero.
Batman is Ahab, a vampire, Lancelot, Charles Foster Kane, Dr. Bill Hartford, John the Baptist, the tortured soul seeking redemption.
Doomsday is a fire-breathing dragon, King Kong, a falling meteorite, a nuclear holocaust, the mythical Hydra, Mordred, the monster inside oneself.
The Kryptonite spear is Excalibur, Longinus, Zeus' thunderbolt, Ahab's harpoon, Zorro's rapier, Alexander the Great's sword, dispassionate power and judgement.
Lex is The Joker, The Mad Hatter, Elmer Fudd, Oedipus, Icharus, Salome, the Tragic cynic.
There are many comparisons with the Nolan trilogy because this film embraces it as part of the mythos too. For instance, the Batmobile scene culminates in Batman running into Superman, while in the Nolan version he decides to spare the Joker on his motorcycle. The Gotham football team's uniform is the same color in both films. Rachel Dawes and Lois Lane are dropped from a skyscraper. The interrogation scenes of The Joker and Luthor are accentuated in one case because of its physical violence and in the other because of the lack thereof.
It's a deconstruction and analysis of the characters themselves.
(1/2)
>>67904183
>literally wakes up from it
>not a dream
nice try snyder
>>67908919
as I already stated, I hated the pacing too. if that had been fine, the movie would've been much better.
knowing that the pacing is off though, I can rewatch the movie without a problem because I actually find the story, characters and visuals interesting
>Why did we need a scene of divers finding kryptonite in the Indian Ocean
I get what you mean but why not have the scene? I thought it was nice to watch and why should people in movies always speak about stuff happening off-screen when you can actually show it for a change?
>>67907025
I haven't seen it, but now I hope you like it, anon.
If it is shit, you gotta hold out until they release the 3 hour version, though.
>>67909111
nice trips
>>67909083
No, he would've said "Am I too late? AAAA too late", because the tub scene had already happened when he visits Bruce.
>>67909097
never mind, I'm just a faggot
(2/2)
>>67908524
Actually, the movie made a good job by making you want to see Batman wrecking the shit out of Superman. But when that's about to happen, you kinda feel bad for them, you don't want them to fight.
>>67909097
The film thrives on these types of associations, like the red Jolly Rancher pushed into the senator's mouth - "it's cherry" - coming back as the blood dripped onto Zod's face, the red graffiti on Superman's monument, and his slashed cheek, not to mention the nods to internet culture and memes (4U CIA). It's precisely this uncomfortable reevaluation and redemption of sugary pop imagery that drives the film. "Snyder intends to resolve the conflict between commerce and art," as Armond White notes. The basic thesis is that Superhero franchises are antithetical to what Superman actually stands for.
The fact that not a single character behaved the way fanboys expected just proves the point that all this was intentional (for instance, Alfred isn't a butler and Lois isn't a typical lady in distress).
>I'm not a lady, I'm a journalist.
(2/2)
>>67909111
The guy just experienced speed force time travelling shit, my guess is that he passed out for a sec, which makes both the audience and Bruce thinks it was just a dream
>>67908937
>He's not. Nolan's movies were awful, i'm sorry.
I'm sorry, but your opinion is wrong.
>Brody's got you senpai(ily)
Kek, this is why you love 4chan. You disagreed with one of my opinions, while agreeing with me and saying i love you, without realizing I'm the same person. Due to anonymity. Can't do that on Reddit. Btw, thanks for the reading.
>>67904183
Flash went back to change the past, thus creating a new future in which he doesn't need to go back in time. Bruce's subconsciousness somehow still remembers the visitation, hence the "dream."
>>67908969
F a m, I think they were trying to brainwash us. I don't remember the repeating shots, but that photo is ingrained in my brain.
>>67909310
the film did a great job of explainging that, thnanlks
>>67908259
>self-aware
I guess you like when comedies call on their cliches and do it anyway.
>>67909351
>opinion is wrong
not same guy, but the Dark knight was only good because of the Joker being fun. everything else was shit
>>67909117
>why not have the scene? I thought it was nice to watch and why should people in movies always speak about stuff happening off-screen when you can actually show it for a change?
Because at 2 and a half hours of runtime, the movie is already bloated and bursting with people showing and telling the same shit over and over again, regardless of importance. It needed to cut the chaff and roll scenes together. It needed to let scenes actually develop and its characters to actually interact for prolonged periods of time.
Again though, I ask you what's great about the movie? I could sit here all day and talk about pacing issues, thematic transparencies, characters never being grounded and treated as people always as metaphors for something else which makes it hard to care about them, blunt and obvious symbolism that is just repulsive, and, yes, annoying contrivances and logical inconsistencies. But I won't. This movie doesn't deserve that level of discussion.
I just ask people what they liked about the movie and I don't get any answers other than "it was deep because of symbolism and allusions" and people liked some of the acting performances. What was in the movie that you think made it great? Don't tell me why my opinions about it being bad are wrong, tell me your opinions about why you think it's good.
>>67909284
How was cia/aiden refrenced in bvs?
>>67909410
>>67909351
i love you too btw
>>67909351
Wow, great post man!
Do you mind if I screen shot this and post it to www.reddit.com? Thanks for your time.
>>67909396
into watching the WW solo movie... probably... and yeah same here
>>67909284
what was the jar of piss a reference to?
>>67909512
What she said literally two scenes earlier
>you give me a jar of piss and call it Granny's Peach Tea, doesn't mean i'm gonna drink it. You can take a weapon of assassination and call it a "deterrence" that doesn't make it one, so no Mr Luthor you won't be getting kryptonite
>>67909097
>John the Baptist
This is pretty deep f a m. I'm gonna need you to explain this one.
>>67909420
>Because at 2 and a half hours of runtime, the movie is already bloated
that's a very reasonable point. I would've preferred the communion scene instead of the indian ocean scene anyday
>Again though, I ask you what's great about the movie?
I already told you. I liked the character motivations, the overall plot, lex' evil plan, batman, wonderwoman, superman, the fights, the cgi. I'll leave out the symbolism because it was just a nice addition
of course you don't give a fuck about all of that due to asking me what is great about the movie while only posting negative sides. you didn't like it, I get it. doesn't mean others didn't like it for the reasons I listed
>>67909463
As long as you wire 10% of your upboats to my offshore account.
>>67909227
kek
>>67909573
Oh, thank you. I found this movie a little too hard to follow to be honest
guess I'm just not smart enough :)
>>67908713
yep, pretty much that's why for me, it's not the usual luthor, but it's not that insulting either, i expected another kind of luthor, but it never came close to, let's say, bane from batman and robin (that was one of the biggest insults ever made). Even so, i liked how he plotted things out
>>67909410
The Joker was the best part, I agree.
>everything else was shit
Yeah see, this isn't an argument. And it doesn't even make sense. There would be no movie without Joker. It's like saying "my sandwhich is only good because of the meat, cheese, and lettuce. Everything else is shit."
>>67909420
not the guy you're quoting but here I go
>depiction of raw-style batman
>bat cave
>wonder woman actually being a likable character
>all batman choreographies
>the space fight between doomsday and superman
>how the scenes during the first half culminated in the court scene
>the cameos
>>67909177
nice dubs
>>67909727
Good lord, I'm a fan, but you gave the worst argument ever.
>>67909759
Nice singles
>>67909633
No, I do give a fuck about the fact that you liked those things, my point was that everyone who raves about this movie on /tv/ pretends that their love of BvS is because they're enlightened film analysts and that everyone who hates it just didn't get it or is a Marvel fan or some buttmad fanboy who doesn't like the depiction of their Superhero. My point is that when faced when rational film making or even just story construction analysis, these same fans don't have any arguments other than "you're wrong and dumb."
I don't care that you enjoyed what I think is a bad movie for shallow, superficial reasons like "lex's evil plan, batman, wonderwoman, superman, the fights, the cgi," but I'm sick and tired of people saying that some deep, philosophical exploration of the human condition is only masquerading as a dumb, stupid action movie. It is a dumb, stupid action movie.
>>67909764
why? what did like about it?
obviously, during these discussions, one shouldn't delve into story elements because haters will instantly tell you everything regarding the story is shit
>>67909846
From your list, I liked:
>depiction of raw-style batman
>all batman choreographies
I'll add the scenes where Batman saved Martha, the symbolism in the movie, and the incredible first half.
>>67906170
>people's complaints get proven to be pleb-tier with ADD when discussed
Except the complaints are largely about pretty significant plot holes, weak structure with random shots shoved into places, and Superman being literally retarded.
Even the flash scene OP is talking about is awkwardly inserted into the movie. He has the fucking desert dream, dream ends, then it's like they just inserted the stupid fucking Flash sequence into the avid timeline, making basically no effort to have it blend with the previous dream.
The flick is a dumpster fire, and you retards pretending it's "kinotherapy" is why this board is so shitty now.
>>67909834
>It is a dumb, stupid action movie.
See, this is why we have to call you a buttmad Marvel fanboy.
>>67909962
>Except the complaints are largely about pretty significant plot holes
Such as?
>and Superman being literally retarded.
How?
>>67909834
>my point was that everyone who raves about this movie on /tv/ pretends that their love of BvS is because they're enlightened film analysts
I think BvS offers a lot of potential for theories and analysing of scenes, which is pretty cool
>and that everyone who hates it just didn't get it
there are people who didn't get it though. I literally had a former classmate whom I met after the movie ask me "why the hell were they fighting?"
usually the plebs who don't visit this board didn't get it but often, I even see some people lurking the board who didn't get simple scenes
>or is a Marvel fan
said former classmate concluded his hate speech with "Marvel is way better anyway". again, I noticed that a lot of reviewers are like this which is a pity if you ask me.
why not just like both for their unique takes on the characters and stories? I don't have anything against watching a well-made marvel movie which is light hearted and switching to the rather dark DCMU
>or some buttmad fanboy who doesn't like the depiction of their Superhero
people not liking the depictions of their superheroes aren't actual fanboys. they are just retards who know nothing about actual comics. the same goes for marvel retards who think that adaptions have to be 100% accurate
>>67908919
Or how about those fucking flashbacks to the terrorist part during the scene where Lois and that guy who works for the government discuss the Lexcorp bullet.
As a matter of fact, that entire terrorist scene really served no purpose, because the men were killed with bullets, and clearly not by Superman. In fact, this film gas a penchant for immediately exhonerating Superman of any consequences his actions may have had in order to give Lex something to do throughout the film. Imagine if there weren't any Lex Corp hired thugs there and Superman had actually killed all those people. Then his actions would have had actual consequences i.e. the local government cracking down on the innocent that happened afterwards.
>>67904183
Are people really this stupid? None of them where dreams, rather they are memories from different timelines.
>>67906170
>If a person criticizes the problems with the retarded characters, attack them as "comicbookfags."
>If a person criticizes the problems in the film, attack them as plebs or drones.
>>67909645
only 10%?!?! talk about a deal!
>>67909962
Name a plothole
Oh wait, you cant.
>>67909952
>'m a friend of your son's.
>I figured. The cape
funniest scene in the whole movie, goddamn
>>67910080
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but that was awkward as fuck. Maybe it'll funnier on the rewatch.
>>67906877
he goes straight to grab his chest in the webm. you wrong nigguh.
>>67909993
But Marvel movies are also dumb, stupid action movies. Why would me saying that this movie is a dumb, stupid action movie make me a Marvel fanboy?
If I say that Live Free or Die hard is also a dumb, stupid action movie, which it is, does that also make me a Marvel fanboy?
>>67910114
>>67910080
I liked it as well, too bad all /tv/ can say is FUCKING QUIPS QUIP LOVING FAGGOT GO BACK TO MARVEL MARVELKEK
FFS
>>67910210
My point is that you made a retarded, unsubstantial argument.
>>67910218
Don't make me quip you, boy
>>67906984
Congratulations Reddit comment of the day! XD
>>67910114
I wasn't being sarcastic. actually, the whole theater laughed out loud which didn't happen that often. I think the fact that it came out of nowhere was the part that made it work
>>67910210
/tv/ logic: quips are bad in Marvel movies and make the movie intolerable and bad and joss Sweden reddit etc etc. They're ok in other movies though :^)
>>67910277
Congratulations on being a fucking faggot with no friends, now go jump back up your own ass and lick the bowl clean
Why did they even need to have so many dream sequences? Surely if the characters were given more time then their motivations would be clear. But watching how this all panned out, one would assume that Batman finally wanted to kill Superman after having a dream, which is retarded. The dream sequences just felt lazy, like some excuse for action, but then you have shit like the Flash appearing in the dream.
>film gets bashed by most critics
>/tv/ likes it
what a surprise
>>67910240
I feel like your point was that I was a Marvel fanboy. If it wasn't, rather poor words to use. Your point wouldn't even make sense because a lot of different groups of people have made retarded, unsubstantial arguments that aren't Marvel fanboys.
Do you want me to detail why I think the movie is dumb or stupid? Because I think my previous comments on nonsensical inclusion of unnecessary or redundant scenes, substituting symbolism and allusion for actual depth, making every piece of dialogue stilted, pretentious crap, not grounding any of the thematic work in the actual characters in a way that the audience can be invested, and plot contrivances and logical inconsistencies make an argument for it being dumb and stupid. Do you want me to go in depth on any of these?
Or do I need to substantiate my claim that the movie is indeed an action movie?
>>67910380
Not an excuse for action, but an excuse for Fan Service. Which i'm completely ok with
>The Flash is some flip that was only casted for diversity's sake
>the movie Flash will never surpass how good the CW's Flash is
>the movies will never cast a good Captain Cold
>>67910380
>Why did they even need to have so many dream sequences?
Nigga, what other dreams were there?
>Surely if the characters were given more time then their motivations would be clear. But watching how this all panned out, one would assume that Batman finally wanted to kill Superman after having a dream, which is retarded.
>not realizing the dream just further convinced Wayne of his paranoia
>not realizing the entire 1st half was setting up the character's motivations
>>67910444
>Do you want me to go in depth on any of these?
Yes, yes I do.
>>67910023
>Why did Lois Lane throw the spear into the water?
>How did Lois Lane know to go back and get the spear?
>Why do a flash time-travel tease... in a dream?
>How did Luthor have footage of Zod's body being cut by Kryptonite before the government gave him Zod's body, and before he had the fucking Kryptonite?
>Other than product placement, why was Wonder Woman on that plane?
>Why would Lex excitedly introduce billionaire Bruce Wayne to some shitty sports journalist for the local paper?
>Why didn't Lex's asian assistant leave Bruce to continue hanging out in the restricted server room after she found him there?
>Why was Morpheus demanding that Clark be writing about sportshit? Was Clark on the sports beat?
>Why did Morpheus give Lois Lane the chopper ON THE ROOF just because she said "it isn't for work" or whatever? Seems like there'd be more pressing matters than blowing your budget on a helicopter for someone who vaguely says they have a person issue. Do newspaper editors have a lot of clout in the short-notice helicopter rental services? Why would a helicopter pilot fly into the middle of a giant city-wide arc flash hazard? Why would he be allowed to?
>Why did Superman stop Batman from stealing the Kryptonite from Lex? Why was Superman cool with Lex having a big shipment of Kryptonite?
>Why was that whole sequence in the movie when it literally accomplished no forward momentum in the plot? If all Batman needed to do was get a tracker on the truck then sneakily break in later, why didn't he just do that instead of murdering a bunch of people for literally no reason?
>What was Lex's plan for Doomsday if Batman had killed Superman? What was Lex's plan for Doomsday if Doomsday killed Superman? The military couldn't kill it and Lex didn't have any Kryptonite.
>Why does a mild name coincidence suddenly change Batman's entire opinion on Superman?
>If Snyder Batman kills, why is Joker alive?
>>67904183
I find it pretty funny how delusional the people that defend BvS actually are.
I'm pretty sure they genuinely believe that the movie is a 9/10 or a 10/10 and that it's highbrow entertainment.
>>67910078
>>67910023
forgot to tag you in
>>67910709
>>67910709
I dont think you understand what a plot hole is, maybe you should stop watching cinemasins
>>67910816
this
>>67910547
>What other dreams were there
Pa kent and the horses
knightmare
dream with Man-Bat
opening scene of movie
>>67910591
Which ones do you want me to go into?
I think me and the other anon talked about the inclusion of unnecessary or redundant scenes when we were discussing how bad the pacing is, directly as a result of those things. I briefly touched on the idea that symbolism and allusion aren't inherent goods nor do they inherently impart quality on a piece. I rolled my eyes when Doomsday literally beat Superman over the head with the names of the people that died in Metropolis when Zod attacked. We already know that Superman is racked by grief and guilt over collateral damage and unintended consequences of his actions, that's his arc in the movie, is anything added by shoving it down our throats with a blunt and obvious metaphor? What is even accomplished by drawing parallels between Superman and King Arthur with Excalibur and Lady of the Lake iconography? What is even the point?
You can probably count the number of actual conversations in the movie on one hand. None of the characters really interact with each other. Everyone seethes in their own little bubble until they get the chance to bounce a zinger or some philosophical little fortune cookie line off someone who talks to them. You could fix pacing issues and build nuance in your characters if the movie rolled some scenes together and got the characters into a room to interact with each other.
Plot contrivances and logical inconsistencies smack of nitpicking and plenty of people have gone into those since the movie's release, but I could detail some that really bothered me if you want.
>>67910709
Most of these aren't plot holes (not entirely sure if you know what that even means). Some of these are straight-up-autistic (like your first one...). I'm definitely not wasting my time going through all of these. Give me 3-5 that you think are strong.
>>67910709
Lois knowing to get the spear back is the only real plot hole on the list.
Something or someone being really dumb is bad, but not really a plot hole.
>>67911076
>What is even accomplished by drawing parallels between Superman and King Arthur with Excalibur and Lady of the Lake iconography? What is even the point?
Your central point in this paragraph seems to be "Why do I need symbolism?"
I'm honestly not sure how you respond to that. It's like saying "Why should I watch a movie?" Because it's interesting.
>Plot contrivances and logical inconsistencies smack of nitpicking and plenty of people have gone into those since the movie's release, but I could detail some that really bothered me if you want.
Sure. But like I told >>67910709, I only want 3-5.
>>67908512
Not everyone is an ironic contrarian shitposter, no.
This movie's great.
>>67907371
this is what happens when /x/ autists and /tv/ collide
I'm glad you enjoyed the movie though
>>67904183
Of course it wasn't a dream, it's an alternate reality.
Portraying it as a dream sequence however, made it dumb as fuck.
if they just straight up made it obvious that this was a future in an alternate reality, then through in flash. It would be good. Instead, they have batfleck waking up from the images of someone the audience doesn't know, and a fucked up future.
One piece of paper flying around won't identify the audience that it's not a dream sequence.
>>67911196
Nah, you can argue that it was intuition, or just having a deep, almost psychic connection with Clark. That's why they always show up when the other is in dire danger. Another way you could argue is that she put two and two together and that the monster that sprung from the Kryptonian ships wreck was Kryptonian in nature (she had already witnessed what the spear could do to Clark).
>>67910709
>gets asked for a plothole
>doesn't post a single one
Damn, Marvelcucks on suicide watch.
>>67911096
He just proved how illogical most of the scenes in this film were but your comeback is that some of his points are 'autistic'. You're shit, son.
>>67910709
>>Why would Lex excitedly introduce billionaire Bruce Wayne to some shitty sports journalist for the local paper?
Because he already knows their identities, later he teases Bruce with the line:
>we should work together sometime, my R&D is up to no good.
This foreshadows Bruce resorting to steal Lex's Kryptonite.
Lex is mocking them by telling them about his plan.
Honestly I can answer every question but I don't feel the need and don't have the time, I have to go now. Maybe when I get back I'll take my time to indulge your shitposting.
>>67911044
they also cut out
>Dead Robin and laughing Joker nightmare
>Supernightmare about the destruction caused in MoS
>Zod nightmare
>>67911330
>or just having a deep, almost psychic connection with Clark. That's why they always show up when the other is in dire danger.
Eh, you're reaching.
>Another way you could argue is that she put two and two together and that the monster that sprung from the Kryptonian ships wreck was Kryptonian in nature (she had already witnessed what the spear could do to Clark).
Yes, this is a good argument, and this is why I think there's nearly no plotholes in this movie.
>>67908512
Snyder's adolescent symbolism hits a key demographic on /tv/. People feel validated when they manage to "figure out" the symbolism, and assume that everybody else dislikes the movie because they were too stupid to understand it.
When in reality, the majority of viewers are put off by the pretentious and shallow parallels that Snyder seems to be in love with. He beats you over the head with this shit. I mean Doomsday literally hits Superman in the head with the his own death toll monument. Snyderfags feel like they have to explain the subtle nuances of that scene. Y'know, cause we're all so stupid.
>>67910733
I find it funny how delusional you are.
>>67911436
I told him to give me 3-5.
>>67911467
>adolescent symbolism
redditor please go and learn what iconicism means
>He beats you over the head with this shit. I mean Doomsday literally hits Superman in the head with the his own death toll monument. Snyderfags feel like they have to explain the subtle nuances of that scene. Y'know, cause we're all so stupid.
You and I both know that the average viewer didn't get that.
>>67910733
>STOP LIKING AND DISCUSSING WHAT I DONT LIKE!!!!!!
>>67911197
>Your central point in this paragraph seems to be "Why do I need symbolism?"
Then you should reread the entire conversation because my point was that symbolism doesn't equate depth. Nor does it equate quality. And that overuse or misuse of symbolism is an active detriment to a movie, especially when it's blunt and obvious. It comes off like someone thinking they're really smart for getting something that everyone gets.
Here are the plot contrivances or logical inconsistencies that bother me because they actually detract from the whatever the movie was working toward:
>Superman showing up with the intention of talking to Batman, trying twice, but then beating the absolute shit out of Batman and threatening him for a minute or two instead of just saying his piece, even though he still thinks he's invincible and not in any real danger
>Batman's father whispering "Martha" and Superman, for the first time in two movies, calling his mother by her first name
>Lex having a super convoluted plan involving the Wayne Enterprises employee that was crippled in Metropolis to stoke Batman's hate of Superman and get him to try and kill Superman for him, but never offers an open partnership despite having the exact same motivation as him. Even though Lex wants Batman to kill Superman, he has to have Batman steal the kryptonite from him
>Lex's convoluted plan to manipulate Batman barely even worked. They made a big show of it with the YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE letters and shit, but Bruce didn't even see them until the day of the hearing when his secretary finally showed them to him after Bruce specifically asked about the situation
>Lois knowing to get the spear back after throwing it in the water despite being inside an abandoned warehouse in an abandoned area of Gotham when all the stuff involving Doomsday was revealed and happened
>>67910709
>Why was the Superman getting framed for Africa deaths in this movie? What if congress didn't call a hearing about it? Also why would people think Superman shot a bunch of people?
>Ultimately, what narratively was the point of the attack on congress in the first place? Supes was depressed before, Supes was depressed after. And it's not like it really led to anything other than talking news heads being annoying. It's not everyone thought he did it.
>Why did broody, rebellious vigilante Superman have beef with broody, rebellious vigilante Batman?
>Why would fucking Superman trust Batman to save his mom? Even if they didn't hate each other 5 minutes earlier, Superman can fly at supersonic speed and is invincible.
>How exactly was Doomsday created? Was it Zod's body? Why would Lex's blood and dna be of any benefit to Doomsday's creation?
>What exactly was Lex's plan? And why? What's the point of repeatedly trying to frame Superman if you're intending to release a big monster to kill him?
>How did Lex get all the files on the other superheroes? Why did he have custom made logos for them? Where's the graphic designer he hired to make logos for them?
>Why wouldn't the people in the Wayne building already be evacuating when 9/11000 is happening?
>>67910816
>>67911096
>>67911196
Eh I decided to just go ahead and list all the inconsistencies and horseshit that doesn't make sense. Not that most of those don't quite easily fall into the definition:
>In fiction, a plot hole,plothole or plot error is a logical inconsistency within a story.
What's the point of a grim setting when you have zero levity to contrast it? Its just bad writing.
When the characters are unrelentingly grim for 2 and a half hours, they cease to feel like characters. It's almost worse than the quip-bots that we get out of Marvel movies.
Do you think something like the Wire would have worked without the moments of dark comedy?
>>67911532
I'm sure they did. It wasn't very subtle at all.
Did they really need to put so much shit relating to the future movies in there? Do they really think they can play catchup with Marvel this late?
>stay in office while alien weapon destroys city
>decide to leave when bruce wayne tells you to leave
Good thing he called
>>67911375
Standard response it seems. Can't actually address any of the listed inconsistencies or illogicalities, so just try and pretend to be pedantic about the definition of "plot hole."
>>67911608
>hat's the point of a grim setting when you have zero levity to contrast it?
did you write the review on top?
>>67911532
so what? Does that make it any less blatant? The symbolism isn't particular insightful or clever. Couple that with a halfbaked script, mechanical characters and shockingly bad editing and you've got a legitimately poor film.
The only people who enjoy it are the ones who can latch onto the blatant symbolism in an effort to elevate themselves above the unwashed masses. Looks, he's still doing it >>67911501
>>67911665
I don't have time now, but I'll address your autism list the next time you post it in a different thread.
watched the movie today with my mom (no singles policy) and she liked it and i agree with her. it was not a perfect film. it was not as good as batman 1990 or the dark knight but it was entertaining. problem was that the plot was a bit all over the place. the doomsday fight was not necessary. if the movie would have been focused on the batman superman conflict with a better motivation for supes above "onoez, my mom is in danger" it could have been a really great movie. i dont think it is the trainwreck many people make it out to be, but maybe i am just a plebian who does not get film.
>>67911548
>Then you should reread the entire conversation because my point was that symbolism doesn't equate depth. Nor does it equate quality. And that overuse or misuse of symbolism is an active detriment to a movie, especially when it's blunt and obvious. It comes off like someone thinking they're really smart for getting something that everyone gets.
So what do you believe symbolism is for?
>Superman showing up with the intention of talking to Batman, trying twice, but then beating the absolute shit out of Batman and threatening him for a minute or two instead of just saying his piece, even though he still thinks he's invincible and not in any real danger
This contributes to the idea that Superman is hot-headed, and too reckless, and thereby helps justify Batman's argument. Literally the opposite of an inconsistency.
>Batman's father whispering "Martha" and Superman, for the first time in two movies, calling his mother by her first name
I didn't keep track of how Superman called his mother, or how often he did, so I can't address this.
>Lex having a super convoluted plan involving the Wayne Enterprises employee that was crippled in Metropolis to stoke Batman's hate of Superman and get him to try and kill Superman for him, but never offers an open partnership despite having the exact same motivation as him. Even though Lex wants Batman to kill Superman, he has to have Batman steal the kryptonite from him
The Lex in this movie is more of a Joker, and different from the other iterations. He likes these contrived, theatrical plans. The fight itself was similarly theatrical (see: the dialogue from Lex on the rooftop).
>"Lex's convoluted plan to manipulate Batman barely even worked. They made a big show of it with the YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE letters and shit, but Bruce didn't..."
The fuck...he still saw it, and it helped push him to do something.
>>67911548
Oh and I should append:
>Lex is identified as a human intruder on the Kryptonite ship and is given complete control of it and its systems for seemingly no reason. In MoS, even though Clark was on board and just looking around and it accepted him because of identifying him as Kryptonian, it tried to kill Lois when she wandered aboard.
>>67911678
By all means, ignore my argument. You don't have anything to say.
>>67911680
>so what? Does that make it any less blatant?
Because it's all relative. If the average person doesn't get it, then it's deep.
BvS is the Evangelion of Capeshit
>>67904183
why did Snyder edited it like it was a dream? for what purpose?
>>67911558
>talking news heads being annoying.
I really hate this film's over-relience on news footage yo tell us what the film itself is supposed to convey and make us think about.
>that entire sequence where Superman is being heroic
It's like they didn't want to shoot scenes with actual people expressing their hatred of him i.e. refusing his help or throwing shit at him, and just used the news to convey people's reaction to Superman's actions.
Not that any of the actions he took had any real consequences.
>terrorists killed
Wasn't him.
>Senate explosion
Wasn't him, as the news explains immediately afterwards. The film tries to spin a "well maybe he chose not to stop the bomb", but why would he choose not to stop it if he actually knew it was there?
>>67911787
You're comparing a fully functional ship to a damaged ship at 30-something% efficiency?
>>67911854
>the average person doesn't get it
I feel like I have to point out that you have nothing to support this claim
Other than your superiority complex, of course.
You would have to be an outright retard to call it subtle.
>>67911788
>IT ISN'T FUN
>lol k fag
>J-JUST IGNORE MY "ARGUMENT"
lol buttblasted redditors are the best
>>67911875
It would derail the fuck out of the plot. it's easier to have it be played off and pay off down the road.
https://youtu.be/hgnz9CbQODY
>>67911787
I never even thought of that.
>>67911901
Why establish something within the universe's logic if you're going to blatantly contradict it later with zero explanation?
It's hack writing. There is no reason to defend it
>>67911899
>why would he choose not to stop it if he actually knew it was there?
that's the point. People who hate Superman are going to hate him no matter what.
>>67911784
Symbolism is for drawing or highlighting comparisons between people or things in a visual medium. Used intelligently, it can add real depth to a scene by having the viewer consider what is happening a new or different light. Cramming it down the viewer's throat in scene after scene after scene in the most blunt and obvious ways to reinforce meaning that is already readily apparent is terrible.
>Literally the opposite of an inconsistency.
Superman says he has to go get Batman to help him save his mother. So he shows up, floating above Batman, and says, "We need to talk," but then does barely any talking. The second Batman actually engages in a dialogue by NOT attacking Superman, Superman stops trying to talk to him and just beats the hell out of him. Completely contrived.
>The fuck...he still saw it, and it helped push him to do something.
But the point is that it was super contrived. Bruce even asking about it is contrived. He sees a fairly put-together man in a courtroom, in a super fancy and technologically advanced wheelchair who is at the courthouse addressing the same kind of fear and frustration that Batman has for Superman, and then he basically asks his secretary, "WAIT A MINUTE, WHY ISN'T THAT GUY RECEIVING THE CHECKS I SENT HIM?" Can you draw the line of logic for me?
>>67911787
he took it over with that hand scanner, didn't he?
BVS is about to getting BTFO next week by Jungle Book.
>>67911901
Was that ship fully functional? It was stuck in ice for like 20,000 years.
>>67912051
He accessed the ship by using Zod's fingerprints over his own, that's fine, but then the ship actually recognized him as not Zod and as a human. It knew him as "Alexander Luthor" and gave him direct control for seemingly no reason.
>>67911974
>it's easier to have it be played off and pay off down the road.
or even easier, just omit it out entirely.
>>67912114
probably cut or i didn't catch it in the theaters. The North African frame scene was cut badly too, because it gave the film an R rating
>>67912068
DISNEY/MARVEL FOR LIFE
god, DCfags must be just about ready to kill themselves
>>67912078
It was and it could speak perfect English
>>67912190
why, it was fun and will be cool.
If it wasn't a dream, then why was Bruce clearly asleep?
so Snyder is off the project for Justice League now, right? This is pretty much confirmed?
