>"Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control."
- Simon Pegg
>"A sweet-faced boy of twelve told me proudly that he had seen Star Wars over a hundred times? I said, 'do you think you could promise never to see Star Wars again?' He burst into tears. I just hope the lad, now in his thirties, is not living in a fantasy world of secondhand, childish banalities"
- Alec Guinness
>"I don't think they are making [comic book movies] an elevated art form, I think it's still just Batman running around in a stupid cape.. It's for kids, it's adolescent in its core. "
- David Cronenberg
>"I don't want to see or make films about super heroes that fly around in spandex and a cape solving the problems of the world. I think it's fine for children, children of all ages by the way, but it's not for me."
- William Friedkin
>“They have been poison, this cultural genocide, Because the audience is so overexposed to plot and explosions and shit that doesn’t mean nothing about the experience of being human.”
- Alejandro Iñárritu
>"Superman makes me vomit, Batman and all of that. That whole empire... this religion... It is so important that superheroes suffer... I don't give a damn, I shit on the United States."
- Alejandro Jodorowsky
>"To my mind, this embracing of what were unambiguously children's characters at their mid-20th century inception seems to indicate a retreat from the admittedly overwhelming complexities of modern existence"
- Alan Moore
>>67873089
>Simon pegg
Fuck that guy, he's a hypocrite and part of the problem
>>67873089
>They have been poison
>shit that doesn’t mean nothing about the experience of being human
Damn. Even my successful countrymen have broken english. Smh.
>>67873089
>using BvS pic when all that whining really applies to Marvel movies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2K1cm0Qvck
>>67873089
It's true, it's all about BvS.
>>67873587
He's probably tired of taking his boyfriend to see them :^)
>>67873587
His bf was a child not that long ago though.
>>67873721
He doesn't want his BF to watch movies without him in it.
>Alan Moore
>pretty much only famous because of capeshit
>somehow thinks he's above superheroes
>>67873599
Marvel movies are for kids, so they are what they should be.
I think most of this is shit - "superheroes" here stand for "fantasy". Yes, it's for children. What's wrong with that? The real problem is indicated by Alan Moore: the kidnapping of superheroes by adults.
anyone remember the ending of The Lego Movie?
I'm all for snobbery. I think people have been cottled so much that they don't understand criticism and boil it down to haters gonna hate.
That being said I don't really value the arguments of these people. A lot of there argument comes down to the assumption that we have gone from a bounty of culture to a wasteland.
But there is, and always will be, the good and the bad. They are choosing to remember the good of the past and not the bad.
Even before big blockbuster films there was schlock. Crappy sci-fi films built to scare children, romances all trying to copy this film or that, or comedies with crude innuendos. Did these things cheapen the great cinema? No they did not.
People seem angry at mass cinema but it is just something with a large appeal. It doesn't mean that the good isn't appreciated.
It almost feels like all these people can't understand that "plebs gonna pleb".
>"Superman makes me vomit, Batman and all of that. That whole empire... this religion... It is so important that superheroes suffer... I don't give a damn, I shit on the United States."
- Alejandro Jodorowsky
/tv/ literally
Superhero films are just the new popular culture. I'm sure other cultures before this were also aimed at children and weren't challenging to adults but does that matter? As long as film makers are still making things that are the opposite of Superhero films, the people who want to be challenged will seek it out. Even better is that in our current digital era is that more people can be exposed to challenging films than ever before.
>>67873089
>>"Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control."
He is still assblasted because of Ant-Man isn't it?
>>67873089
Alan Moore's quote is taken out of context - he was advocating comics and their ability to provide an escape from the horrific real world, not condemning them.
>>67874898
>>67874898
You're confusing Edgar Wright with Simon Pegg
>>67874748
The past had good though. That is why people are pissed. There used to be bad things AND good things.
Now it's just mediocrity and shit.
>>67874748
This, capeshit is just the current fad.
They seem to forget we endured like 30 years of mostly mediocre western movies.
>>67873089
>a retreat from the admittedly overwhelming complexities of modern existence
Oh, so you mean entertainment?
>>67875088
>They seem to forget we endured like 30 years of mostly mediocre western movies.
Not even that. Every tiny theatre would show the same horror/sci fi movies for kids.
Yet people only remember the good sci fi films.
>>67875046
Do you honestly think there is no good being created nowadays? Of course there is. It is a narrative to view the past with great pride and the present as worthless. If you look at what is consumed by the mainstream then you will see the schlock, the popcorn movies or reality tv. But there is loads of good things to discovery.
The idea that we just live in a sea of mediocrity says more about people's state of mind in the modern world; depression caused by feeling alienated or alone. All this crappy social media. Etc etc.
Good art is still alive.
>>67874748
This.
>>67873089
Was almost starting to miss this pasta
Simon Pegg is such a dork though, I doubt he said that. And if he did he read it somewhere and was just repeating it.
>>67875233
>The idea that we just live in a sea of mediocrity says more about people's state of mind in the modern world; depression caused by feeling alienated or alone. All this crappy social media. Etc etc.
And I should add: even this feeling is not completely original. We had the exact same arguments from existential thinkers who all viewed consumerism in the same way.
None of these ideas are "new". They are just the same recycled thoughts of people criticising the tastes of their society.
>>67873089
>Alejandro Jodorowsky
>Psychomagic
>Jodorowsky spent almost a decade reconstructing the original form of the Tarot de Marseille.[38] From this work he moved into more therapeutic work in three areas: psychomagic, psychogenealogy and initiatic massage. Psychomagic aims to heal psychological wounds suffered in life. This therapy is based on the belief that the performance of certain acts can directly act upon the unconscious mind, releasing it from a series of traumas, some of which practitioners of the therapy believe are passed down from generation to generation. Psychogenealogy includes the studying of the patient's personality and family tree in order to best address their specific sources. It is similar, in its phenomenological approach to genealogy, to the Constellations pioneered by Bert Hellinger.
>Jodorowsky has several books on his therapeutic methods, including Psicomagia: La trampa sagrada (Psychomagic: The Sacred Trap) and his autobiography, La danza de la realidad (The Dance of Reality), which he was filming as a feature-length film in March 2012. To date he has published more than 23 novels and philosophical treatises, along with dozens of articles and interviews. His books are widely read in Spanish and French, but are for the most part unknown to English-speaking audiences.
>Throughout his career, Jodorowsky has gained a reputation as a philosopher and scholar who presents the teachings of religion, psychology, and spiritual masters, by molding them into imaginative endeavors. All of his enterprises integrate an artistic approach. Currently, Jodorowsky dedicates much of his time to lecturing about his work.
>>67875191
That's exactly what Moore was saying, in fact the faggot OP took the line out of its context.
It's not a secret that Moore actually loves comics and Watchmen is proof of this, hell, he hated and still hates the "graphic novel" marketing term because he thinks comic book is as dignified as it is.
>>67875046
That's not really true though is it? There are plenty of great films released every year. Whether you watch them or can identify them or not is irrelevant. When you are looking at the films of the past you are only really seeing those that have been preselected for you by years of critical appreciation or destruction (see something like MST3K for this), the middle ground, the mediocrity, has already been filtered out and not so much thrown in the trash but filed away as uninteresting because it has no value either way.
>>67875397
So he invented a field of "expertise" and is now teaching it.
Damn genius that's what I call him, I've always admired scammers like that, because people who fall for that shit don't deserve the money they made.
>>67873159
Yeah, he was in Star Trek and wrote for Star Wars. He's as much a part of the problem as anyone.
>>67875657
>>67873159
He's not talking about comic fans and such, he's talking about the ones who watch Big Bang Theory, they play Call of Duty and they brag about how much of a ''nerd'' they are.
>>67875410
Dont get me started on the graphic novel term, i hate that shit.
>>67875299
He wrote it, but it's always quoted out of context. He basically was praising geek culture, but criticizing the overall direction it is going as it becomes more commercialized. (Or something like that, it's been a while since I read it and it wasn't that interesting.)
All anyone ever does though, is try to make it sound that the nerd who built his career on geeks suddenly did a 180, because it makes a good shock quote on its own.
its too deep for small minds
>>67875805
>as it becomes more commercialized
This.
If you want a perfect image of how commercialized it is then look at conventions. Comic Con and others started out as events of celebration of the mediums people enjoyed. Now they are used for big companies to parade their latest movies and cosplays to garner attention.
Simon Peg is insulting a culture that has seeped in.
>>67875827
>too deep
Everyone gets it. Superman is Jesus. Nothing deep about that. I honestly don't know if I'm being baited or if you people really are this pretentious and dumb.
But enough about children's stories, here's some fish-man fucking.
>implying modern capeshit isn't the equivalent of mythological tales like beowulf, king arthur, achilles etc
Its only childish if you make it childish
>"Superman makes me vomit, Batman and all of that. That whole empire... this religion... It is so important that superheroes suffer... I don't give a damn, I shit on the United States."
Sounds like some villains
>>67876184
My favorite anything by Alan Moore
>>67876387
I was gonna say, sounds pretty Zod.
>>67874392
Please elaborate.
>>67876328
Yeah, they are our modern equivalent of those tales. People have always liked awesome stories about heroes. The problem with capeshit is not because they are movies about heroes, but, like you have said, because they are stupid.
>>67876167
When in doubt, you're being baited
>>67873089
meh....what do you think Westerns were in the 50s and 60s? they were made for men who has read dumb western dime novels as kids in the 1920s and 30s.
>>67876483
>>67876184
>implying a fish person raping and impregnating a woman isn't high art
>>67876328
Seems like it's more about promoting interracial relationships and muh strong womyn nowadays. I suppose a strong womyn counts as a myth but it's not a very good one.
>>67876648
I just can't fap to this artwork.
I feel like that Simon Pegg quote is really taken out of context. He's the biggest self-professed nerd there is.
>>67873089
I agree. How dare people enjoy things. People should be forced to endure the reality that they already live in.
>>67875827
Snyder has the subtlety of an elephant in a glass room. Superman is a god? big fucking deal. So fucking what? He can copy Alex Ross panels all he wants it isn't deep on any intellectual level whatsoever. It even comes across as ridiculously over pretentious often. The base material isn't Shakespeare, it's for kids ffs.
He might as well do a Bugs Bunny movie adaptation with a deep intellectual message. That's literally what he's been doing with DC. And guess what: it's utter shit.
>>67876706
It's not meant to be porn, it's deep and complex storytelling only adults can appreciate. That's why he had a woman getting deep dicked by a fish monster for like 8 pages in a 30 page issue.
>>67876756
This, he's the Hideo Kojima of movies.
He might as well have called Superman Clark Christ.
>>67873089
>>“They have been poison, this cultural genocide, Because the audience is so overexposed to plot and explosions and shit that doesn’t mean nothing about the experience of being human.”
>- Alejandro Iñárritu
That sounds pretty pretentious.
>"Superman makes me vomit, Batman and all of that. That whole empire... this religion... It is so important that superheroes suffer... I don't give a damn, I shit on the United States."
- Alejandro Jodorowsky
Now that's one pissed off Mexican.
>>67876997
It got to the point I was half-expecting a Stan Lee-esque cameo by Snyder, where'd look at the camera and go "Wow, he's exactly like Jesus."
Optionally followed by "Now pay me more money."
>>67873089
>“They have been poison, this cultural genocide, Because the audience is so overexposed to plot and explosions and shit that doesn’t mean nothing about the experience of being human.”
>- Alejandro Iñárritu
I couldn't agree more. Specially with the "overexposed to plot". People is getting used to receive every piece of relevant information several times like if it was normal.
Jodorowsky is an edgelord
MoS and BvS were smarter than anything "SW fanboy" Pegg has ever done and more poignant than The Revenant (still love Amores Perros though.
The rest criticize the same mentality BvS did.
Now what?
>>67873089
Inraritu's pisses me off the most.
WE LIVE AS HUMANS EVERY DAY.
Why the fuck would I want every film to be about the human condition?
I want something on occasion that makes me forget about how shitty it is to be a human living a pointless life.
>>67876328
LOL
>>67874748
"coddled" you pretentious faggot.
>>67877919
No, the problem is that BvS thinks it's smart because they made a bunch of religious references.
>>67876591
Capeshit didn't produce TGTBTU though. Nothing of value has come from it.
>>67878033
>implying BvS isn't the TGTBTU of our times
>implying it's not better than that shitty western anyway
>>67876997
go back to /v/
>>67873089
Does anyone have a link to BvS? I wanna watch the shitty movie without paying for the shitty movie.
>>67877960
The problem is that you were too dumb to notice them, and when people pointed them out to you you failed to dig deeper.
>>67877919
Pegg's quote is so out of context, and it's kind of sad how after so much reposting people still don't know this and just use it as ammo for their own dislike of him.
>>67877926
I think the point they're getting at is media is essentially becoming nothing but a distraction from real life to the point no one actually does know about the human condition.
Of course that is just one way to interpret that grammatical mess.
>>67878129
No, the problem is that those biblical references were already played in MoS, they appear again in BvS, and just like that, they go nowhere, and the movie just ends up being a generic superhero movie.
But with religious symbolism.
>>67876328
beowulf, king arthur, achilles, etc weren't created and commercialized by a mass media entertainment company. They wheren't products, they had social and educational functions.
>>67873089
While I'm normally against these edgy shitlord they are absolutely right about the ninja turtles movies. Hearing adults well in their 30's whine about the TMNT trailer not being like muh 80's cartoon is pathetic. That shit is for kids not you fuckers. Stop bitching about TMNT and impregnate a white woman and save the white race for the love of fucking god.
>>67877919
>>67878088
>>67874177
>>67873599
MoS and BvS is Snyder is pretending to be Nolan by wrapping marvel tier plots in grimdark. If you were to take either of those movies, up the saturation and exposure, and add a ton of quips, it would be a marvel movie. Every bit as thematically bare, but at least marvel gets the benefit of not trying to hide it.
>>67873988
Alan Moore is famous for criticizing and subverting capeshit. Learn to read.
>>67873089
I don't understand what Simon Pegg is saying. It makes no sense for comic books and superheroes to rail against capitalism, when many of them have benefited from capitalism in some way, shape or form.
I get the impression that these people are bitter because their stuff is not popular.
>>67873159
>>67875657
http://simonpegg.net/2015/05/19/big-mouth-strikes-again/
This is what happens when you take quotes out of context
>>67873089
>"I think it's fine for children, children of all ages by the way, but it's not for me."
- William Friedkin
by far the best.
Not completely dismissive but still throwing shade at the comic obsessed man children who care way too much about the current glut of capeshittery
>>67878129
Dig where? to the sewers?
What's the deep message here kid? Superman is a god then what? is he being used as a political tool like he was in Miller's TDKR? Because I think I missed that part in the movie.
What is this deep message and meaning Snyder so masterfully crafted? It's been 2 weeks now since release, and I have yet to read anyone with a valid argument about this hoax of intellectual grandeur.
Pic related, it's a deep religious statement à la Snyder.
What's wrong with normal adults watching superhero movies and reading comic books? A lot of what Moore and the others are criticizing sounds like mass hysteria.
>>67874748
This is such a load of reddit tier fucking retard bullshit
This isn't just the fad now, it isn't just going to blow over and everything will go back to normal. Movies are fucking over. They're dead. They're all garbage now. Every single one. Multiple capeshit movies every year for the next two decades and then every cinema will shut down and Netflix will rule
>>67875233
>Do you honestly think there is no good being created nowadays? Of course there is
Name one good popular mainstream movie from the last 5 years. Name one.
>>67878157
The fact that you're focusing your attacks on the religious imagery, and not on the other countless references to novels, movies, cartoons, mythology and history proves that
>A: you didn't watch it or you didn't pay attention
>B: you didn't get them and as already pointed out didn't understand the movie
>C: you've just exposed yourself even more as the dumb dimwit that you are.
Cry harder.
>>67878612
Superhero movies are just a fad, anon. They'll be replaced by live action adaptations of manga from Japan in a few years.
>>67873089
I think it is OK to enjoy childish stuff from time to time
>>67878684
>hurrr muh time is cyclical
Nope, movies are over.
>>67878684
it will be Kaijukino
>tv shits on capeshit all day long, every other post wishing it was over
>celebrities shit on capeshit
>tv shits on celebrities for having the same opinion, albeit slightly more pretentiously
this is what pisses me off the most about 4chan, you don't care what your viewpoint is, as long as it's yours, only yours, and better than the other guy's
>>67878791
>>67878612
You left your brain in middle school. You're completely incapable of finding the good on your own, you need to be spoonfed by a father figure or a corporation before you can consider something good.
>>67876648
More?
>>67879029
People only post when they disagree anon. There's no point in spamming "I agree" every time you agree with someone. You could up-vote a post, but there is a different website for that.
Here you only see disagreement, which doesn't mean there IS only disagreement. Agreement, by its nature, is tacit.
>>67879029
mfw people are literally defending and praising the star wars prequels now, not even ironically, so desperate to have unique taste
>at your age, your father was married with 2 kids and had already bought a fucking house and a car
>you sit on a teen imagesite arguing who would win in a fight between superman and goku
>>67879154
completely agree, but I can't help but think people who disagree are basing their opinions completely on being contrarian. I also have a bad habit of subconsciously visualizing all of tv as about 12 of the same people, posting over and over again.
>>67878161
No genre is inherently devoid of value. Dismissing them only proves your arrogance, close-mindedness, and pretentiousness. For thousands of years, our myths have shouldered the weight of man pondering the meaning of humanity. Comic book characters are, at their worst, just power fantasies. At their best, they're the spiritual progeny of those same myths and a medium through which that dialogue continues.
>>67879256
>projecting this bad
Not everyone is a waste of space like you kid.
>>67879309
just reading this post, a tiny, organic fedora sprouted on my head
>>67879346
youre right, people who argue about superman and goku are brilliant specimen of our species
>>67879359
For dismissing actual coherent arguments?
*tip
>>67879384
I didn't say that. but people that don't use apostrophes aren't too brilliant either.
>>67879399
for trying to inject that deep of a meaning to fucking comics
>>67879309
>>67879424
write me up on /tv/'s book of bad boys with bad grammar nigga
>defends capeshit
>is a grammar nerd when it comes to fucking apostrophes
who wouldve thought
>>67879450
Reread the second sentence in that post slowly. I haven't even read a comic in my life and I know it's true.
>>67879484
>wouldve
To me bad grammar and spelling are almost instant red lights for discardable opinions. Cr
>>67878656
>other countless references to novels, movies, cartoons, mythology and history
Big deal. All hollow, all fruitless. References for reference's sake. There is no deep meaning here to be found, just a meta childish trick coming from someone who obviously confounds references and substance. Style over content. Photography over storytelling.
Only uneducated fedora millennial plebs of the first order keep defending this piece of shit flick.
>>67879492
I read what you said. Yeah, comics probably come from the same urges which urged people back then to write epics. But today, it literally is just a manchildren hobby. So whats your point? If you dont read comics, do you "hope" deep inside that some of them are written in the same vein as classical epics? Are you saying something so grand can come of them? This has literally never happened for as long as comics have been around. If anything, they get more infantile by the year.
>>67879471
You're beyond the point of no return if you took the time to save that picture.
>>67879515
But arguing about superheroes when youre an adult, isnt
>>67879554
You still have to dig deeper imbecile, there's a reason for every single one of these references.
>Miss the references
>Dismiss the movie
>Someone points out the references
>Dismiss the movie
>Someone points out that you missed didn't analyze the reason they're there
>Instead of trying to dig deeper, dismiss the movie
Seriously, how old are you?
>>67879622
>isnt
Opinion discarded
>>67879706
goku could beat superman easily
>>67879706
Not even going to mention starting with a conjunction and leaving off a period? I think someone needs to hit the books.
>>67874748
I dont mind all that capeshit but i mind that teenagers, people in their 20s think that capeshit is peak of cinema, they think that capeshit films are the greatest film ever made and they dont even know any old movies and they dont like them because they are old.
>>67879309
>Comic book characters are, at their worst, just power fantasies. At their best, they're the spiritual progeny of those same myths and a medium through which that dialogue continues.
>Then proceeds to admit he hasn't read a single comic book.
Full retard.
>>67874748
Except schlock was cheap and wasn't everywhere.
Capeshit is annoying in its omnipresence. You see it on billboards, ads, if you have pleb friends, odds are you have heard them talking about it, facebook. Worse yet, it corrupts OTHER blockbusters. Star Wars, Kingsman, Hobbit, even the fucking James Bond.
>>67879554
>how old are you?
Seriously?
Go ahead punk, make my day!
Enlighten us with the intellectual depth of your shit movie. We're waiting here, 2 weeks and counting.
I can make references too like snyder you see. I'm so fucking deep man.
>>67879554
be madder
>>67873089
>Simon Pegg
>Only popular because of his work in nerd culture films. Just committed career suicide.
>Alec Guinness
>Bitter, closet case homosexual saddened by the fact that his only memorable role was that of Obi-Wan Kenobi
>David Cronenberg
>Sexual deviant who wrote a film with a bug that has a talking anus.
>William Friedkin
>DUDE I MADE A MOVIE FEATURING HARDCORE GAY ANAL FISTING.
>Also hasn't made a good film in years. Most of his films were commercial flops.
>Alejandro Iñárritu
>Didn't have a clear ending for Birdman and it shows.
>People only went to see it because it was super hero movie related, and starred a former Batman
>Alejandro Jodorowsky
>LOL DOSE UTHA COMICS IS GHEY BUT MY COMICS ARE SO DOPE!
>LOL I MADE A MOVIE WHERE A GUY TURNS HIS FECES INTO GOLD
>Also all his films, every single one, were flops.
>Alan Moore
>LOL DUDE I WORSHIP A SOCK PUPPET AND I'M CONSTANTLY BITTER
OP, it's so easy to BTFO you out every time you post this. You're clearly a bitter little manchild.
>>67880502
Daaaayum. Op status = REKT
>>67880502
Look at this alpha chad supporting comic books and BTFOing everyone
>>67880502
Wreckage... with no survivors.
i really can't tell anymore do yall seriously and unironically like capeshit?
>>67880707
>Wah wah wah people like things I don't lilke!!
>>67880502
>were commercial flops
>were flops
Are you a Jimfag or something that you think money is a good argument?
>>67879779
Film is for plebs. People who like old movies are just as much fedora wearing autists.
>>67880755
>Wah wah wah why don't his films make money? Why doesn't anyone want to see them?
BvS is the Family Guy of capeflicks.
>>67880727
>>67880786
>Wah wah wah people tell me I'm a retard for liking children's movies
>>67880502
>BTFO you out
>>67873089
probably the best thread created on this toxic wasteland of a board
>>67880755
Well, they do all sound bitter that this stuff is more popular than their work.
Highly recommend "Jodorowsky's Dune"
Fantastic documentary on one of the greatest films never made
>>67878591
There's nothing wrong with that, unless your definition of 'normal' includes emotionally immature man-children who get excited just over the fact that there are superheroes punching each other for no reason.
>>67878263
capitalism needs to infantilize people since it makes better consumer
Pegg is stupid thinking it's a conspiracy. It's not a secret at all and any marketer knows that
>>67873089
>"Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control."
>t. writer of nuTrek III
>>67873089
>I don't give a damn, I shit on the United States."
kek
>>67879929
What an insightful comment.
>>67875508
>When a girl has a heart of stone, there's only one way to melt it. Just add Ice.
> Ice
> Melting stone
that doesn't even make sense, god damn
>>67881742
Yeah, we should refresh her warm heart with a cool island song.
>>67881778
Oh fuck, I recognise this reference but forgot where it comes from.
Can some anon remind me?
>>67881845
South Park, the episode where Geroge Lucas and Steven Spielberg digitally changed Raiders of the Lost Ark to have Ewoks in it.
>>67876167
No, you missed the point. The film's not trying to say Superman's Jesus; it's driving the point home that everyone in his world views him as a god when he's not nor is he trying to be.
It's also a visual metaphor for how his nature and environment conspire to present him as a god in his spite of his efforts to the contrary.
>>67878113
Well for Zod's sake, whatever you do, don't go into it with an open mind. I'd hate for you to have your horizons broadened in any way.
>>67882824
Why so desperate, Zack?
>>67878645
I'll name two. MoS and BvS. They manage to make some pretty insightful statements about the nature and integral responsibilities of true heroism, the disconnect between the subjective and the reality, the changing perspective in the relationship between a father and a son, and the perils of cynicism.
To top it all, they manage to tackle these themes inside the framework of the stereotypical Hollywood cape movie, and do so without drubbing people over the head with them.
i hope wonder woman has the same tone and theme. too bad zack snyder cant direct all the movies.
i loved his work since 300
>>67882848
Why can't people have a civilized discussion about the merits and shortcomings of the film? What the fuck is this culture of extremes - it's either shit or it's genius and if anybody disagrees even a bit with your extreme, they must be retarded?
I genuinely believe some people have jumped on the hate bandwagon because it's popular right now and it makes them seem superior and like they know more than they do.
>"Their mother sharing the same name ends the battle - it's so retarded!"
>"Yeah, but have you considered that Batman has been psychologically messed up for years because of the death of his parents that this name, the last thing his father said, triggers the trauma and also makes him realize that he has become the very criminal he fights?"
>"Fuck you, DCuck, your pseudo-intellectual analysis of the film is bullshit, it's a shit film! Why can't you accept it?"
Seriously, I understand there are things wrong with the film and we can discuss how it could have been better but this attitude of thinking you're smart by repeating 'it's shit' is just fucking cancer.
>>67882848
Zack's not desperate. If anything, he's probably telling Nolan, "See? I told you they wouldn't get it."
>MOOOOOOM
>THE OTHER KIDS R MAKING FUN OF MY MOVIES AGAIN!!
>oh honey just tell them theyre for mature people
>THEY DONT GET IT MOM MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
>>67878113
you don't want to pay $8.50 to watch a fifty million dollar movie how much of a nigger are you
>>67883228
I know..but what did you expect from the same people who think fucking girls with feminine penises makes you gay
>>67883274
where the fuck am i replying to
sorry bro
>>67883101
>They manage to make some pretty insightful statements about the nature and integral responsibilities of true heroism
ARREST MOMENTUM UNASSAILABLE BROOD
>>67873159
Dude was doing a bit on a radio show, and talking about himself.
>>67880502
ad hominem: the post
>>67879309
>At their best, they're the spiritual progeny of those same myths and a medium through which that dialogue continues.
Everyone's just going to post fedora but this contradicts your previous sentence
>Comic book characters are, at their worst, just power fantasies
The difference between mythology and comic book heroes is subtle but crucial - myths were not only of actual relevance regarding ethics etc. - the characters in myths acted in accordance with the gods' wills. Superman, Batman etc. are beholden to nobody, not even the people who are supposed to make the rules in society. I found it interesting that SvB tried to point this out with the whole congressional thing but it was cut short by the bomb and nothing came of it.
All of OP's quotes sort of shed light on this idea. The dialogue has died, since if mythological heroes existed nowadays they'd abide by the laws. The similarities with myth are superficial, and what's being extended is what Ayn Rand believed in.
>>67883347
Here's the full context. Bear in mind, this relationship and the shifting perspective are both Clark's and the audience's own.
>The first thing we hear Jonathon advising Clark to do is perhaps consider *not* saving a bus's load of children and it sounds callous and stupid.
>The next pivotal moment comes when he reveals Clark's alien heritage to him. It's a glimpse at the softer side of Jonathon and it's the first real clue that his motivations might be more carefully considered than initially thought.
>Then there's the tornado. Immediately leading into this scene, we see Clark being the typical rebellious teen arguing with his father, after which we see Jonathon making what appears to be a stupid and pointless sacrifice by going back for the family dog, forbidding Clark to save him.
>Later in the movie, we hear Martha explain to Clark that Jonathon did what he did because he felt that not only wasn't the world ready for Superman, but also Clark wasn't ready to *be* Superman
>On the mountaintop, Jonathon gives Clark what is essentially a parable that illustrates in microcosm that heroes have to be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions, both good and bad, and that ofttimes what seems to be the right thing in the moment can have repercussions that reach far beyond the here and now. In light of this parable, many of Jonathon's motivations come into still clearer focus.
The emotional impact of these scenes serves to mimic the changing perspective of a young person growing into maturity and coming to understand the wisdom and reasoning behind the actions of a wise parent when viewed through the lens of time.
In short, Jonathon feared more than just the repercussions of Clark falling into the government's hands, he also feared unleashing a "child star" Superman upon the world, forever emotionally stunted and scarred by having his journey into manhood poisoned by ever-present scrutiny.
>>67883865
The "best and worst" statements aren't contradictions, they're there to illustrate that there are comics that fall on both ends of that best/worst spectrum and at all points in between.
>>67884192
He probably should have made the stupid and pointless sacrifice to go back for a dog. Clark could have easily done that.
>>67884241
I can't think of any that actually follow mythology since the concepts regarding it have no relevance to us.
>>67884192
The movie does a pretty shitty job of showing us this, even if it's true.
If it had done a better job maybe so many people wouldn't have been so upset about it.
>>67883865
>I found it interesting that SvB tried to point this out with the whole congressional thing but it was cut short by the bomb and nothing came of it.
I freely admit that I could be mistaken, but I believe that's a theme that will carry through into future films. I believe you might be premature in thinking nothing further will come of it.
Also, in regards to mythology, there myriad tales of gods, demigods, and heroes, and in their original context, they were presented as that era's version of everything from comedies, to tragedies, to morality plays. I contend that the comparison stands.
>>67884356
Both MoS and BvS suffer from this, good plot points represented in the worst way possible.
MoS should have wasted less time with clark destroying trucks or wasting screentime with Lois, and more with clark and his family.
And bvs should have wasted less screentime with autistic dream sequences and more with with the building of batman and supes character.
luthor should have died five seconds in the movie.
>>67884356
In my opinion, that sort of misses the point. I believe it's intentionally jarring to draw the audience into questioning Jonathon's in the same way any child would, especially Italy a child like Clark. I have a feeling that if there are any more Jonathon scenes, they will continue to shed light on just how wise a man he was.
The cynical and the dull will probably each in turn label such reveals as the director "retconning" Jonathon into a warmer, wiser character, or citing what they see as bad characterization, both overlooking the through-line and what I at least believe to be some masterful film-making.
In other words, how many coincidences does one need before one stops calling it coincidence?
>>67884413
superficially at best
>>67873089
How could anyone say no to collecting these gems?
>>67878181
>MoS and BvS is Snyder is pretending to be Nolan by wrapping marvel tier plots in grimdark
i want this meme to end. bvs isn't grimdark.
>>67884623
I'll take that as a begrudgingly ceded point.
>>67884765
yeah, snyder is nowhere on nolan's level
>>67873089
>>"Nerd culture is the product of a late capitalist conspiracy, designed to infantalize the consumer as a means of non-aggressive control."
>- Simon Pegg
A bit rich from Pegg isn't it?
>>67878181
>Alan Moore is famous for criticizing and subverting capeshit.
Yeah but before moore Capeshit was still for kids. Him and his rape fetish did more harm to comics than anything. That northern monkey even had Swamp Thing get raped
>>67884909
There is literally nothing wrong with rape.
>>67873089
I like how this thread is all about Capeshit when Guinness would hate most of what /tv/ is into. He would hate the /who/fags the most
>>67884909
This. Moore did more to turn comics into grimderp bullshit than nearly any other writer.
To his credit, I think he's realized this, and that's part of why he seems to hate both himself and the industry now.
>>67884922
Well unless u just say touch the grill's leg and feel her skin without any fugging or taking ur private out then all should be fine
>>67884792
they're not even remotely the same. snyder is thematic, nolan rarely is.
most movies about batman are dark.
>>67884982
Before DC jewed him out of the rights to Watchmen he was all for movies being made of Superhero films but only if they were done in a mature way. He's just a bitter old man anon
>>67885100
Nolan is good, Snyder isn't.
>>67873988
>Wathmen, V for Vendetta
>Capeshit
>>67885152
i don't care which you like better.
>>67875716
nice boogeyman
>>67873089
Yeah, Cape shit sucks right? Haha. I'm just going to go watch regular tv instead, like big bang theory, American Idol, America's next top model, the young and the restless, etc....
You can criticize any and all entertainment, it really only becomes a problem if you center your life around it (like neckbeards playing video games 8 hours a day or that kid watching star wars a hundred times)
>>67885152
It doesn't matter than Nolan isn't a good filmmaker, that's not the issue.
>>67885695
this
>>67885764
Nolan *can* make good films. He just doesn't always hit home runs.
>>67873089
But wait, if nerd culture is hostile towards BvS doesn't that mean the movie isn't the kind of thing these quotes are talking about?
>>67885912DING DING DING DING DING
This film goes so far beyond the established norm for a cape movie, it's not even in the same category.
>>67873599
BvS is far more adolescent in its strained attempts at depth.
>>67876658
Jesus Christ just fucking leave
