I think I need something explained.
So at the end of BvS we see Clark being buried and we also see the government burying Superman, or at least an empty coffin with his emblem on it. We know it's empty because we know that Clark was in the other coffin at the Kent farm. So why does the world think Superman is dead if there's no body? Who gave confirmation that Superman is dead without having the body?
Okay, now the world thinks Superman is dead. He will come back and people will be shocked and surprised and probably happy and they will think he's Jesus because he came back and people will have questions but in the end he's an alien so how the fuck could we have been sure that he was actually dead? Right?
BUT! Clark Kent is also officially dead. So if Superman returns all those excuses might work, but how will Clark Kent come back? How are they going to establish that in the future?
Or is there something I missed?
MAKE SURE TO SPEND YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY ON THE SEQUEL TO GET ALL THE ANSWERS ANON :^)
That cape is too long.
>How are they going to establish that in the future?
He will fly around Earth to turn back time. They will retcon every plot hole found by fans inbetween movies. Every intro of every future DC movie will be a montage of Superman turning back time with certain events being retconned or otherwise changed to make more sense.
>>67668227
>HARD EARNED
>being a wagecuck
Nope, you're right on the money. All holes they decided to write themselves into.
If they would have buried Superman at the capitol, and left Clark's coffin empty, you could at least had the excuse of "Oh well he was just missing for however long with amnesia" or some shit to explain why Clark came back after being assumed dead. Can't do that now. Hack writers.
>>67668199
>>67668199
Pretty sure the news would have shown his dead body for days. When he comes back to life he'll claim he's clark's twin brother, clork
>>67668199
I believe the real body is in the Superman coffin, because we saw the dirt rise off it at the end.
Clark's would be the empty one just for show.
>>67668287
>yfw this is what they did in the comics but not the movie
>>67668323
Nope. Clark's coffin was the real one. That's the dirt Lois throws on it at the funeral.
>>67668199
Question, and a very important one, during the mourning in Kent farm, did Clark's body had glasses or not?
>>67668339
And that's why it worked! Sorta. I mean, it's still stupid as fuck, but at least you can sorta jump through the hoops mentally.
will only be a problem if they make another superman solo movie
they dont need clark kent for justice league movies
>>67668345
Oh, okay. My mistake. Well then yeah, one more retarded aspect of a bad movie.
>>67668373
Clark Kent is the best part of superman, anon
>>67668388
Yep. And in all honesty, it's a small flaw compared to the many others in the movie. So many things wrong.
>guise I totally wasn't dead when you buried me
>people come back to life all the time after being pronounced dead
I will literally throw my popcorn and drink at the movie screen if this is how they explain it in justice league
>>67668395
but the justice league movies will have enough shit going on probably.
no need for a clark kent story there
Good day gentlesir! My name is Ken Clarkson and I would like a job at the Daily Planet!
No, I don't have any references.
No, I don't have any documents dated before 2016.
No, I don't believe we've met before.
>>67668388
what
>one more retarded aspect of a bad movie
>>67668444
it just might work
>>67668442
You've got a point there, nigga.
I actually hope this is the case because I like the lack of reverence for status quo in BvS.
>>67668323
are you retarded? that dirt is on the clark coffin.
>>67668507
Nah, I just made a mistake - which was then corrected, and then I apologised, and then we moved on.
Chill, brah.
>>67668199
perry doesn't know yet. the moment lois is about to tell perry she will be informed that clark is back and not tell him. the only people who think clark is dead is from his little farm town, lois, batman and ww
>>67668199
My take is that Perry White discovers that Clark was Superman when Lois tells him that he needs the chopper to Gotham and it's not for a story.
Perry helps in keeping Clark's identity secret by burying Clark's obituary. Also, it would be easy for Bats, WW, and Lois to remove the suit from his body and claim that they didn't find Supes' body, only Clark's.
>>67668548
Dude Clark's picture was literally in the Daily Planet. Everybody knows that Clark is dead. There was even a scene with Perry picking up the paper and looking at it.
>>67668199
I'm betting that Lois, Bats, and Wonder Woman conspired to hide his body specifically so he could be laid to rest in a way that allowed his loved ones to honor his passing. They could claim that Superman in his weakened state was incinerated by Doomsday's final blast.
As far as the death of Superman goes, I think maybe they're going to give us something new - a Superman without an alter ego. If I'm right, they pulling a reversal of the original Doomsday storyline where Supers was legitimately laid to rest and Clark was conveniently lost amidst the devastation and presumed dead. This time, we officially buried Clark.
If that's the route they're taking, we're about to see what kind of place the world becomes with a Superman who's never not "on duty,"Be afraid.
>>67668266
He looks fucking ridiculous. I need to stop watching capeshit.
>>67668548
clarks death is in the paper. it says he died when trying to investigate the gotham battle.
>>67668548
Except, you know,
the giant fucking article Perry shows us is in the Daily Planet about Clark Kent being dead.
That might have tipped him off.
>>67668613
He knows, see >>67668569
but decides to listen to Clark's advice of writing about what's important.
>>67668605
#stopkryptonianfashionshaming
#kryptonianfashionmatters
Also, as a thought, can anybody explain to me how Superman suddenly knows that Batman is Bruce when he flies over to ask him to help save Martha?
Was it mentioned at ALL prior to that moment that Clark knows his real name? Did I miss that?
Why didn't they do an autopsy? Or the government do experiments on the body? You know because he's an alien.
They could of at least checked his fucking pulse.
![81a67c854ed45d5b573929896853c5a6[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Lz6qa5b.jpg "81a67c854ed45d5b573929896853c5a6[1].jpg")
>>67668637
>>67668644
>Superman suddenly knows that Batman is Bruce
He finds out in Lex's party, he listens to his conversation with Alfred because muh super senses.
>>67668644
Clark heard Bruce's earpiece during Luthor's party and he has x-ray vision. There was no need for a scene where he finds out. Maybe a 2 second shot of him looking through the mask but people should know by now that Supes can do that.
>>67668657
yeah experiments on a kryptonian body that worked out well the last time they did this
>>67668644
At the party at Lex's place, Clark hears Alfred talking some serious espionage shit over Bruce's earpiece. That's where he put two and two together.
>>67668578
>Clark's picture was literally in the Daily Planet.
>>67668657
>Or the government do experiments on the body?
what happened the last time experiments were done on a kryptonian body I wonder
>>67668685
>>67668684
Fair enough, guess that never clicked for me. Although that feels a little bit flimsy still. Not that the audience-goers really care anyhow.
>"what did Luthor do to turn Zod into that monster?"
>"we're still trying to find out."
>"I wonder what would happen if we do the same thing with the monster. What would it turn into?"
And thus the neverending Doomsday cycle began.
>>67668279
since the flash time travels, theyll most likely have him retcon alot of plot holes
>>67668637
Forgive me, Invincible son.
>>67668735
I'm kind of hoping that they rein in Flash's OP time/dimension-hopping. All they'd really have to do is bring in the old "cosmic treadmill" from the comics and say that he has to stay on it and keep running or else he snaps back to his point of origin.
>>67668199
>Who gave confirmation that Superman is dead without having the body
Lois Lane confirms it as witnessed. Swanwick concurs as government rep.
(also Swanwick's driver Captain is now a silver leaf and a tac room insider. nice)
>>67668434
>eating popcorn at kino
>>67668199
>So why does the world think Superman is dead if there's no body?
Because it said so in the Daily Planet.
>Who gave confirmation that Superman is dead without having the body?
Lois Lane. She was there. Perry can confirm that she went to the showdown and she is the only eye witness there is. At least to only one willing to talk or whose identity is known. She said Superman died without leaving a trace and that statement coupled with Superman's absence is enough to make the world think he is dead.
With the help of Bats and WW she got the body to his mother so she could bury Clark.
>>67668279
Fuck that.
Just start on an Earth where the Justice League isn't a bunch of sociopathic assholes. They can be watching these events on some cosmic machine looking into alternate worlds / timelines. Booster Gold or someone like that could be showing then what a world without heroes is like.
Then you start a Justice League movie where they are actual heroes.
>>67668700
>aha! that must be the vigilante superhero from a completely different city and not just a thief
>>67668665
I see Batman converted him like Brodie in Homeland.
>>67668578
>Pic of supeerman,
>Obit pic of Clark.
>no one will ever put the pieces together
>>67668842
>that must be the vigilante superhero from a completely different city
what?
>>67668798
>>67668798
Is kino a new term for garbage?
>>67668986
>"The Bat is dead. Consider this mercy."
>"I will bring you in without breaking you. Which is more than you deserve."
>"If I wanted it wou'd be dead already."
>>67669010
Henry would be the perfect InJUSTice Superman.
>>67668199
Presuming
>''Clark'' will come back
>When everything's turned to sand, there's anyone significant to give a damn
>Superman will give a shit about alter egos
>>67668881
>>67668900
>>67668920
>>67668931
>>67668947
>>67668971
>>67668986
The movie would have been so much better with an emotional, heartfelt Superman scene like this. A humane Superman moment. Instead he was a grumpy asshole all the time.
>>67669100
this, he'll probably remain in the Fortress of Solitude
>>67669138
but that cant be from a comic, because Snyder told everyone who doesnt like his superman that thats superman from the comics if you just be a true fan and read them. God i hate snyder
>>67669138
What movie did you watch?
>tub scene with Lois
>watching the news from his apartment
>being torn apart at work
>his face when the Capitol exploded
>Day of the Dead scene
>I miss you son.
>This is my world. You are my world.
>>67668199
If he is dead...WHY DIDN'T THEY EMBALM HIM?
Are you telling me they just threw his body in a box? WTF? Is this shit written by children?
>>67669201
>tub scene with Lois
Not a Superman moment.
>watching the news from his apartment
Not a Superman moment.
>being torn apart at work
Not a Superman moment. (dude Clark Kent doing something is not the same as Superman doing something)
>his face when the Capitol exploded
You mean the face that conveyed annoyance? Superman would be emotionally devestated and hurt and sad but in the movie he was just kinda disappointed and annoyed. Also that wasn't an interaction with someone.
>Day of the Dead scene
He just stood there among people looking sad without talking to anybody. Nothing humane or emotional about it.
>I miss you son.
Not a Superman moment. Plus a dream.
>This is my world. You are my world.
Every moment with Lois is a Clark moment, not a Superman moment.
>>67669295
fanboys are the worst
Superman I'm Security Officer.
>>67668199
This superman is horribly written. He is basically a villain.
>>67669284
you can't embalm supes because of his krypton physiology
>>67669373
Embalm him in kryptonite.
>>67669354
>only guy in the movie that does nothing wrong
this board is full of sociopaths
>>67669398
>does nothing wrong?
Like ramming that black terrorist guy through a bunch of stone walls which certainly killed him instead of just disarming him?
>>67668199
>So why does the world think Superman is dead if there's no body? Who gave confirmation that Superman is dead without having the body?
You could ask the same thing about Osama Bin Laden.
>>67669373
Huh? Why not? His "Krypton physiology" means that his cells are supercharged by the sun or whatever, right? But dead means your cells are fucked and being eaten by bacteria and shit.
>>67669138
I'm pushing the angle that the "hostage negotiator" Superman is who he's working on becoming. He just hasn't figured it out, yet. The Supes we have now would yank her off the ledge because too many other people are out there who could use his help while he hangs there talking her through her crisis. He's going to learn that that's not his role.
In his earliest appearances, Superman was extremely rough around the edges. It took us decades to finally see the Supes from >>67668986. If they gave us that Superman right off the bat, he really would have nowhere to go. No arc, no character development, nothing. Maybe just this once, we're going to see actual heartfelt character development in a cape movie.
>>67669428
>The woman I love could've been shot
>implying you wouldn't have done the same thing
>missing the point of the whole movie
>>67669444
they still needed a kryptonite scalpel to dissect Zod
>>67669444
but he's not dead
>>67669398
>does nothing wrong
He killed like 20 people for fuck sake
>>67669467
Are you saying he couldn't have solved the situation differently? He could have just yanked his arm away with his super speed. Sure the guy's arm would have been broken but he would live. Instead Superman smirks moments for ramming him at high speed through solid walls. What a nice guy he is.
>>67669284
Families get to choose whether or not a loved one is embalmed.
https://www.funerals.org/frequently-asked-questions/48-what-you-should-know-about-embalming
>>67669500
He could've saved the people in the Capitol, but he didn't. The point is that he makes human mistakes too, and you wanted Snyder to indulge your fucking power fantasy.
>>67668280
>>67669528
>He could've saved the people in the Capitol
No. How? Punch the explosion away?
>>67669500
maybe superman hit the wall first instead of the bad guy so he indeed did live
>>67669578
He says it himself idiot. He wasn't paying attention. Rewatch the scene, the last shot before the wheelchair explodes is Superman turning his head to his right and noticing something wrong with it, but it's too late.
>>67669578
he could have used his x ray vision to see the explosives but he didn't because he made a mistake.
>Punch the explosion away?
pretty much, I'm sure he could contain a small explosion like that if he knew it was coming
>>67669588
That's been my take on it the whole time. I'd have to see the scene again to say for sure, but was it even concrete? Mud brick seems more appropriate.
>>67668199
>yfw Cavil supes us a dumb Cuck
>yfw he literally loses to Batman
SuperKEKS BTFO!
>>67669610
To add to this, he wasn't paying attention because he was too ashamed to face the guy in the wheelchair. When he enters the Capitol he remains silent and looking to the front, I imagine he was nervous too. Literally people watched a completely different movie.
>>67669588
The sudden accleration alone would have killed the guy.
>>67669610
>>67669619
So he should have his x-ray vision always on just in case?
And no. Snyderman's power level is thankfully not comicbook retarded where he can actually do stuff like contain explosions in such a manner.
>>67669619
Not to mention that Luthor probably had the explosives disguised as battery packs. Everything else would just look like wiring and electronics to anyone besides an expert.
That's what I would have done, and I'm a professional supervillain.
>>67669284
that actually would be the more respectfull way of burriying someone
imbalming is garbage
>>67669610
>Superman notices a bomb
>Has a few seconds to stop it
>Doesn't
BRAVO SNYDER! WAY TO KEK OVER SUPERMAN!
>>67669696
>>67669636
>didn't watch the movie
we know you're samefagging bud
>>67669689
>imbalming is garbage
Go to bed Cletus
batman shoots people now
>>67669738
He also did so at both ends of his career, just not in the perpetual middle that we're all more used to seeing.
>>67669049
Dont you know anon, this IS the injustice supermans story. After Darkseid kills lois at the end of JL Supes snaps (no pun intended) and kills Darkseid and then takes over the world, to shape it to his vision. JL2 is the team fighting back.
>>67669578
wrap it in his cape
his clothes seem to be as strong as him
>>67669716
I saw the movie you cuck. There is at least 2 seconds between when superman notices the bomb and it exploding. That is plenty of time for superman to carry that guy into the atmosphere.
>but Snyder superman is too slow
Bullshit, he Rushed the African guy in the like second scene in less time.
It isn't our fault Superman is written inconsistently and retarded in BvS.
>>67669669
>The sudden accleration alone would have killed the guy.
no it wouldn't whiplash, yh, but is supes is in complete control when flying at you he can keep you intact over such a short distance
>>67669738
>now
What? He kills people in every movie except for Batman & Robin.
>>67669800
>this IS the injustice supermans story. After Darkseid kills lois
what?
Why was Batman so retarded?
>>67669836
How fast did he hit him? Imagine the scene with a car instead of Superman and then tell me that the guy isn't fucking done for.
>>67669828
again muh power fantasies
>>67669918
Snyder showed Supes being careless and emotional on purpose to cuck fanboys
>>67669865
villain in JLpt1 is darkseid
villain in JLpt2 is evil supes
what dont you get?
>>67669911
>with a car instead of Superman
flash moves faster in his scene yet simply disarms and pushes the thug a few feet away. I'm pretty sure supes can control how hard he hits you
Clark has no reason to exist once the Justice League exists, mate.
The people don't need to see the dead body in order to believe in a death.
Did you even put two seconds of thought before making the thread?
>>67670028
Yes, which is 2 seconds more than the filmmakers put into their film.
>putting iconic characters in situations implying theyve had sex to make them more reel and dramatic
good job snydie boy
they saw it
Batman would have taken the body
The governments not going to tell Batman no give us the body
>>67669993
darkseid will be part 2
an apokalypse general will be part 1.
and dark seid wouldn't give a shit about lois, thats a joker like thing to do as it was in injustice
supes went berserk because he trusted batman to keep joker in line since they are basically a couple and he couldn't resulting in Lois's death
>>67670048
>haha a snarky comment to justify my dimwittedness
>>67669845
The point isn't that he kills a few people. The point is that he is supposed to be adverse to killing and guns in general. This is because of his parents death and his subsequent high ethical standards he has for himself. That is an essential part of Batman. It's what makes him a superhero as opposed to just some criminal vigilante. This isn't reflected or touched on in BvS. In BvS batman doesn't have any ethical standards. He is a criminal.
Snyder Batman is basically just the Punisher. He isn't a superhero anymore. He is an anti-hero at best and a villain at worse.
>>67669836
>>67669911
This is really hard to explain in the context of a movie without having Professor Exposition show up and give us the comic-book science, but basically fast guys like Supes and the Flash have abilities that stop that from happening if they choose it to. With the Flash, it's tied up in the same aura that stops him from being torn apart by his own acceleration and friction. Superman's is partially explained by his weird telekinesis thing - basically, he doesn't drag people along with him(at least not entirely) - he's telekinetically "flying" other objects he touches, which is how he can lift objects that wouldn't support their own weight. They nod in the direction of this ability when they show the pieces of debris around him floating before he takes off.
>>67669918
>wanting consistency in the plot and characters = power fantasies
U WUT M8?
>>67670127
>consistency
You want consistency with your headcanon of how Superman should act. How is that not a power fantasy?
>>67670088
The Batman in Dawn of Justice is an old bitter man.
After Robin's apparent death he became ruthless and cruel with criminals because his "no killing" mentality is what caused Robin's apparent death, the fact that the Joker always escapes and takes advantage of Batman not killing him. In many Batman media the Joker mocks Bats because of this mentality.
What we see in BvS is a PTSD-ridden Batman filled with regret for letting his protege dying while he was "trying to do the right thing". So he stop believing that criminals can be rehabilitated.
This mentality stops once he humanises Superman, believing again in change.
Did you watch the movie?
>>67670088
What we're seeing in BvS is the Batman near the end of his career, disillusioned, cynical, and riddled with PTSD. That's the significance of his statement near the end of BvS - "I failed him in life. I won't fail him in his death," implying a return to his mission, inspired by Superman's sacrifice. It's basically The Dark Knight Returns turned on its ear where Bats's death inspires Supes to abandon his role as a government stooge and become a true hero again.
>>67670187
thanks for explaining why this version batman is garbage
>>67670257
muh power fantasy
Fucking Armond was right.
>In this age of petty Marvels, most comic-book movies merely perpetrate fantasies of power, but Snyder, enacting his personal aesthetic, braves a film that examines those fantasies. He boldly challenges popular culture’s current decay.
>>67670309
>He boldly challenges popular culture’s current decay.
top fucking kek
>>67670370
Explain in detail why you disagree
>>67670370
He's not wrong. Name one time Tony Stark(as portrayed thus far on film) inspired you to want to be like him instead of just imagining *being* him.
They had a chance to do that, as in the comics, Tony's struggle isn't against villains; it's wrestling with addiction and trust issues. They flirted with it in IM2 and backed away from it just as quickly.
Whether you think they're successfully implementing it or not, Snyder et, al, at least seem to be striking at some of the deeper ore the genre has to offer,
>he boldy challenges popular cultures current decay
where? what scenes?
>>67670575
In the gestalt. One of its central themes is "How does a man with the powers of a god find his place in the world?"
>>67670639
really?
>>67670659
Remember all those fanboys and SJWs watching from outside the Capitol?
>>67670659
Snappy comeback, junior.
>>67670699
there was a god hates fags poster print there too
>>67670639
>with great power comes great responsibillity
spiderman already did this
>>67669738
>>67668920
>hurrrr it's not faair! I was lazy and dumb and have a shitty life because of that
At least cry about shit outside your control bitch
>>67670877
spider-man doesnt have to save everyone all over the world, only in NY, supes is on another scale
>>67670877
It goes further than that by adding the political subtext, the media's portrayal of the God, the discussion if Superman should act intervene in wars, even Clark's moral obligation and free will to act is questioned when he visits his mother.
"Be their hero, or be none of it."
>>67670936
>devils dont come from below.... they come above
>>67668971
>>67668947
>heeey thousands are being killed around the globe!
>better stand here for hours waiting for this self-pitying bitch to help herself
>hurr durr muh layf, i will kill muhself
Nothing of value woudl be lost.
Man it really bothers me. The story was garbage and most of the main characters were garbage but the action in the movie was fucking great. We had small scale stuff with Batman beating up thugs, medium scale with BvS, and big scale with WW and Doomsday. And it was really well done.
What a fucking shame that such great action was wasted on a movie like this.
>>67670926
that plus the fact that he can't be everywhere at once even if he tried, whcih ties in to this>>67670936
if superman saves one child and can't save another because of it, why did he choose that child over the other. it makes the relatives or witnesses say why did superman not choose us. it was brought up in the film an dis the part of Snyder superman that I actually like
>>67670877
Sort of, but not quite. Think about it - Spidey's cool and all, but he's still just a step or two above a street-level operator like Daredevil. Working from Spider-Man's creed, what is that responsibility? What would Spider-Man do if he woke up with the power to right any wrong at lightning speed? What about every wrong? Should he?
That's the question Superman's trying to answer for himself, and it's not coming to us in a neat little cause/effect relationship courtesy of Uncle Ben. While I hate the Pa Kent death scene from MoS, it works marginally better when viewed in the larger context provided by the two stories taken together. In essence, "Life is lost by my inaction. More life is lost as a consequence of my actions. Where is the balance? What is the right way forward?"
Now that you mention it, I've got several posts that have important information saved:
Flipping Lex's painting, angels come from below. Meaning that they don't look down on the common people. Remember Superman's monument, it's exactly the opposite of this, it is reaching down from above to the people, and this only causes people to fear and hate him. The crippled man takes Superman's monument's hand reaching down to him, climbs, and taints it with red graffiti, similar to how Bruce slashes his cheek with the spear. (This isn't the first time Snyder has made this comparison of bleeding Gods).
>Do you bleed? You will.
The red graffitti serves as a foreshadowing of bringing Superman to mankind's level. The first thing Doomsday does after being born is destroy this monument. So clearly this way of seeing the Gods doesn't work. Also remember how after saving Lois, Clark has to rise to the top of Lex's tower (the highest in the city) to face the demon.
On the other hand, angels come from below, they struggle against adversity and rise triumphant. The opening sequence shows Bruce as a kid rising from the hole, this foreshadows his fall from grace and eventual redemption when he discovers that the God he feared is in reality just as human and vulnerable as he is, so he decides to cooperate with him. The final sequence, on the other hand, shows a closeup of the flipped painting, the demons are now coming from above, and the rising dirt on Superman's grave symbolizes him rising from below. The new monument for Superman is now a simple plate at ground level that reads: IF YOU SEEK MY MONUMENT, LOOK AROUND YOU. People gather around it from all directions as they mourn his death.
This is juxtaposed with Bruce's speech that man is still good, emphasizing the importance of cooperation and fraternization, signaling the Justice League's necessity to assemble, and for mankind to cooperate.
>>67671028
A bad movie doesn't sprout this kind of discussion pal, read the thread.
>>67669295
Henry gave an interview where he said they were going for a clark kent that is - one - with superman.
>>67671036
supermans a mary sue
>>67671035
>. it makes the relatives or witnesses say why did superman not choose us. it was brought up in the film an dis the part of Snyder superman that I actually like
'What we call God depends upon our tribe, Clark Joe. Because God is tribal - God takes sides. No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations. Mm.
I figured way back: If God is all powerful - he cannot be all good. And if God is all good, he cannot be all powerful. Just like you.'
K I N O
I
N
O
>>67671096
not in this movie
>>67670309
>>67670639
He didn't challenge things, just briefly flirts with the idea and then never explore it again because Supes need to team up with Bat and WW to fight the main villain. Once that's done, the day is saved and we never got any resolution or further things to ponder about the position of power in our society etc.
While I do agree with the point raised in >>67670515 'deeper' in this comparison really doesn't mean much since the bar appears to be pretty low anyway. Because face it, by the end of the day, there isn't much point pondering about the place that supes has in our world when you're going to have powerhouses like Darkseid reigning hell every few weeks.
>>67671041
>they struggle against adversity and rise triumphant.
"They will race after you. They will stumble, they will fall, but in time, they will join you in the sun."
>tfw we're supposed to be the angels
>tfw that's the entire point
>>67671041
>(This isn't the first time Snyder has made this comparison of bleeding Gods).
Xerxes, forgot to add that part
you guys are just defending it becuase it didnt so well in the majority ratings
/tv/ contrarianism at its finest
>>67671027
You could make that argument for any moment where Clark is Clark and not Superman.
>"why are you here? why aren't you flying around at 10000 miles an hour saving everybody who's in trouble?"
If Superman would actually do everything he can to help humanity, humanity would lose its drive. He would be our babysitter. We would never grow with him constantly our hand. Superman lives a tragic life where he experiences all the tragic things heppening around him and always having to make the decision to sometimes not intervene. He's actually deciding when to help and when not. Is this cruel? Shouldn't he have a right to live a normal life as Clark Kent? Should he stop being Superman altogether? Should he only be Superman and retire his actual persona, Clark Kent?
He knows that there are things he could prevent or stop. He's constantly being reminded of that fact because he hears the cries for help, he sees it on tv. He has to decide when to act. Never a moment where he doesn't notice pain and suffering around him. His hyper awareness is his curse. That would drive him into deep guilt and depression sooner or later.
>>67670936
Call me a pleb or whatever but I personally think that BvS should not have been an action flick. It should have been more in the vein of Unbreakable where the action scenes are just a minor aspect and that the bulk of it should be more of a psychological or political thriller. It's probably going to be much more boring bring in way lesser money, but I think it'd better fit the sort themes Snyder wants to explore. As said in >>67671117 there isn't much to really ponder since this is at its core, an action movie so the solution is simply you need Superman to fight some other alien invader.
>>67671190
>holding our hand
>happening*
>>67671190
>That would drive him into deep guilt and depression sooner or later.
He asks his father if he ever overcame his guilt of drowning the horses.
>>67671215
The action sequences also hold a lot of symbolical meaning.
For instance; Bats slamming Supes with the kitchen sink is supposed to mean that he's slamming the slab of the 10 commandments on his head (reminds me of how people get angry about him hammering us with religious imagery). In order to become a monster, he has to get rid of his code, and the message is that men can commit horrible crimes (as the fight progresses, his mask is destroyed and his true face is revealed, just a man commiting terrible deeds).
This is mirrored in the fight with Doomsday, when they're standing beside Supes' monument, Doomsday picks up a slab with the names of the people that died on the world engine incident, and again slams it over his head, representing the guilt Superman feels for what happened that day. By confronting his demons face to face, Superman is able to overcome the grief and guilt.
>snyder puts some convoluted existential phillosphical shit in a cape movie to give the psuedo intllectuals to jerk over
smart move actually
>>67668318
clork smush
>>67671260
I'm not saying the action scenes are meaningless, rather the question is, would having the action be the 'main' be the better way to showcase all that messages?
>>67671268
Dude, just get over it. A good film is a good film regardless of the genre or who directed it. Don't take it as a personal attack on your intelligence. If you don't want to discuss it, then don't. If it is still bothering you and can't ignore it then you have personal issues to address.
>>67671117
see
>>67669454
and reposting >>67667500 here, too:
I think there's plenty of places to take him. So far, all we've seen is inexperienced, conflicted Superman. This isn't a Supes who has a long career of working in secrecy and perfecting his approach to heroism. He's still struggling to find a way to be an inspiration instead of the ultimate symbol for the futility of human accomplishment.
Scenes from BvS that really demonstrate that struggle well are the flood and fire rescues. In the flood, a family paints his symbol on their rooftop like some sort of magick ritual and wait for rescue. When their "saviour" arrives, they reach out to him - the "man in the sky." In the fire scene, he lands among them with the rescued child not only, I think, to deliver her to her parents, but also to try to come down from the sky and find his place among them. Instead the crowd reaches out to him en masse, Clark's not a stupid man. He knows they're not reaching out in camaraderie, or support, or even in simple appreciation. They're reaching out in praise.
It troubles him.
You think it's going to get any easier to shake godhood when he rises?
I think it's going to be a theme that carries forward, at least I hope it is.
>>67671307
*tips fedorah*
>>67670515
Steve Rogers makes me want to be as good/brave as him
Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, they are supposed to be characters with their own conflicts, you're not supposed to want to be them or be like them.
Hulk is a raging faggot that doesn't belong since one slip means many dead, Thor is a daddy's boy who is the target of his brother's jealousy, he is mighty but when you look at him all that he owns is his hammer, jane? Gone, kingdom? Gone, daddy? Gone. Iron Man is rich, sure, but he also has to deal with being the cause if many deaths through ultron, ptsd from NY, alcoholism (which only doesn't come back because they will certainly not have a fourth movie) and being a manlet.
Hawkeye is basically a dude. Black Widow is a barren subject of child abuse who gets passed around more than a bong in a stoner' circle.
Scarlet Witch lost her parents, her brother, was the subject of supernazi experiments and the had her country very much rekt by a robot army. Ant-Ham was in jail, lost custody, got cucked, and his only friends are either insects or retarded.
People shouldn't want to be like them, but Marvel's light tone makes it seem like their lives aren't so shit and they don't explore it enough.
>>67670925
>it's a teenager on 4chan thinks that he's the übermensch who can do no wrong episode
Again, writers? Really?
>>67671300
I personally was happy that this movie wasn't afraid to break the mold, and if you ask me it's a fucking delight to watch.
>>67671190
Yeah sure but standing around for 10 hours? He at least needs classes on counseling.
>>67671300
>would having the action be the 'main' be the better way to showcase all that messages?
but it isn't, the film is 2 and a half hours long, and probably has a max 40 -50 minutes of action. the rest is dialogue, flashbacks, and "snyder cam" where he keeps cutting between scenes
>>67668199
>Clark Kent is also officially dead. So if Superman returns all those excuses might work, but how will Clark Kent come back? How are they going to establish that in the future?
He'll come back as someone else with a different haircut and glasses.
Klark Cent.
>>67671215
I would be totally on-board with a more character-driven piece. Sadly, I'd imagine that being a hard sale to make with the suits in charge of funding,
>>67671348
steve rodgers is better written
>>67671215
I disagree somewhat. While there's over-the-top action at the end, it's a logical culmination of Batman and Superman reconciling their respective nihilism and morality. Man and God coming together to battle a demon is pretty straightforward imagery.
I agree that the fight is a genre trapping, because apprently we're not allowed to have a blockbuster without it, but the fact that the film managed to have all these interesting messages at the same time is what makes it so interesting. It's still a superhero movie, but one with a lot of thought put into it.
>>67671260
I really don't buy the 10 commandments bit, that sound silly. But Doomsday destroying the Superman momument is obviously symbolic.
I think the sink was just to highlight that it's an unglamorous and nasty fight.
>>67671381
Not him but yes, it certainly is.
>>67671363
Oh sod off. When you realize people close to you were close to have their life taken, all it was gonna take was one bullet, then you realize how fragile life is.
If you can't stand on your own without a supergod to tell you not to kill yourself then what's the point?
t. Depressed man
>>67671465
Stand on your own? No one can stand on their own. We're human beings, social animals. Also in that comic it doesn't really matter that he was a superman, other than that he could fly up to her.
>>67671431
>was just to highlight that it's an unglamorous and nasty fight.
I agree on this, but also consider that Snyder's proving to be operating on autistic with his christian references in this one. Notice how after Bats drops Superman off the railing, he lands on a pile of rubble and makes it seem as if he's on an altar, then Batman unceremoniously drags him down and smashes him to the pillars, symbolically destroying the church of Superman.
>>67671422
This.
Not to mention that Steve's far closer in tone to Superman than any of the powerhouse characters.
>>67668318
Sweet potatoes in my mouth
That was good
>>67671521
Stand as in live. Only you can live your life, only you can will yourself to live.
Stopping a gun? Superman can do that.
But apparently he has better uses of his time, like helping someone crying she couldn't land a good job after hs in a first world country, and how sad she is that nihilism is right.
>>67671587
Good catch. I couldn't put my finger on exactly what was striking a chord with me in that scene, but you nailed it.
>>67668345
So the dirt brought Superman back to life?
>>67671676
No, you need support from others to live. Most people realize this when they stop being teenagers.
Also, how can you be this tonedeaf? How can you try to pick logical holes in a fucking superman comic?
Also also
>first world
Oh right, because only one starving limbless african child in a barrell being shat on every day is allowed to feel sad.
You guys are missing one important thing. Lex is still alive and knows Clark is Superman. MMMM.
>>67671751
are you retarded?
>>67671780
and?
he's apparently known for a while
We know from Red Son what would happen if baby Superman landed in Russia instead of the US.
What do you think would happen if he landed in a crime-ridden part of Africa? How would he develop being raced by niggers?
>>67671844
Oops raised not raced...
>>67671780
For me, that and the death of Clark Kent were main cues as to what lies ahead.
>>67671780
He also knows Batman is Bruce Wayne, but he'll never tell.
Reminds me of when the Riddler found out Batman is Bruce Wayne and Batman isn't worried in the slightest because he knows Riddler's ego won't let him reveal such a huge secret.
I gotta be honest. I loved the Batman vs Superman fight. It was really intense and really well done. Great shots and pacing and editing. From a technical standpoint it was pretty much flawless.
But why the fuck would Bruce decide to use those fucking tiny gas grenades for the kryptonite? Why not kryptonite brass knuckles? Or spraying it on his armor, covering it in a thin layer of that stuff? Or why not rig the bat plane with a launcher and let it hover a couple miles above and away from you and then activate it which would make it should a big kryptonite grenade at your location, exploding 20 feet above your head covering the entire area in kryponite dust/gas?
But aside from that I loved the fight.
>>67671890
>He also knows Batman is Bruce Wayne
What's the consensus? Does Bats know he knows?
>>67671869
kek, was that subtext?
>>67671988
Supes needs to be exposed to it.
Kryptonite being in the air and then in his lungs is a better form than just punching him.
>>67671988
Someone else mentioned this, but once I read it, it made a lot of sense. It appeared that kryptonite was some stupidly hard mineral, like diamond cranked up 11. What we saw might have been Bats machining the best weapon he could out of it and collecting the residue for the grenades. In the comics, he figures out how to synthesize it, so we might have just seen his initial efforts.
>>67668863
That bird is fucking adorable man.
>>67672066
Remember he has to use a big ass laser to sharpen it.
>>67671988
>>67672062
>>67672066
>>67668318
Hello my name is Mr. Tnek and I come from some place far away. Yes that'll do.
>>67672168
Fucking nice.
>>67668199
>>67668199
USE FUCKING SPOILERS YOU DIPSHIT YOU'VE RUINED THE MOVIE FOR ME
>>67672261
>thread starts with "I think I need something explained. So at the end of BvS we see..."
>still keeps reading
You got what you deserved you retarded faggot.
>>67668199
Surely that hairline isn't real? Please tell me its been shooped a little bit.
>>67671770
>allowed to feel sad
I never said you are not allowed to feel sad. I said if you lost your will to live then maybe it'd be better for the supergod to be saving people who still want to live but are being snuffed out because of shit like crime or accidents, you know stuff that can't NORMALLY be prevented.
Instead he is comforting someone who can't live with the fact that life isn't peachy and thar getting Bs in high school doesn't qualify you for MIT.
>muh african child
I just said first world because it's even more ridiculous: it's someone who can't accept existence even when it's an incredibly comfortable one, and yet superman wastes time saving her instead of say, person being murdered #5532
"Oooh but anon if superman helps us all and fixes everything he is evil because we lose our drive"
Wait so temporarily convincing someone witgno drive to keep going is better than saving peoppe from the otherwise INEVITABLE?
Oh shut the fuck up you supercucks.
>we don't stand alone
True that you don't live isolated from other humans, but that doesn't mean others can live for you. Support is one thing but your will to live comes from within not without, there are people having everything -taken- from them but superman in thar comic wastes time on someone who is willing to -give up- everything.
>>67668920
>comparing Castro to Kadaffi and Manson
>Ghandi and JFK would be have died of old age by now, and Ghandi was 78 when he died anyway
Superman's a moron
>>67672168
indeed, nice
>>67672364
>Superman's a moron
No, but the writer is.
>>67671988
Well good thinking but I'm just glad Batman won the way he did. Cause if he lost it would've been unBatman-like or even lacking common sense to not do those things you mentioned.
Was Lois Lane subplot the most pointless thing ever? She goes on this quest to prove that Superman is innocent (when he did kill at least one of the terrorists despite Lex's conspiracy), then that whole thing that sort of kickstarted """"""the plot"""""" was completely overshadowed by the senate bombing, and then when she finally learns about Lex's involvement she immediately gets captured so she can't use any of the information she gained.
>>67672564
The entire bullet subplot was useless and pointless.
>>67672564
>She goes on this quest to prove that Superman is innocent (when he did kill at least one of the terrorists despite Lex's conspiracy
The point is that she's no angel either, that whole scene in the desert with Lois is a moral dilemma. The terrorist was supposedly acting to defend his people while they were being monitored with drones and shit. But he was also possibly going to murder Lois, the woman Superman loves. So, how should Superman have acted here?
Also remember what she says in the desert, she's a reporter, not a lady. So you have to see her plotline as how the media portrays Superman. Should she be profesionally obligated to hide/reveal his identity? To what lengths should she strive to portray him in a positive light to the general public (giving back his halo)?
>>67672564
>Lois Lane subplot the most pointless thing ever
Nah, that's just Snyder being faithful to the comics.
>>67673131
Dammit Zack, you're not supposed to adapt filler issues.
>>67671073
>Discussion about how disappointing and incoherent the movie is somehow makes it a good movie.
>>67668199
Just don't bring Clark back. It doesn't stop him seeing his mother or Lois. What's the big deal.
>>67668986
What a shit comic. Zero excitement. Pretentious crap.
Terrible art.
>>67668199
>utterly disjointed and confusing movie
>I think I need something explained.
>>67669138
No it wouldn't. This is just pretentious shit and totally devoid of action.
>>67668920
Do a flip faggot
>>67669295
Dude.
I hate to spoil it for you, but Clark Kent IS Superman.
>SHIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
>>67673301
power fantasy
>>67673718
Power fantasy to want someone with superpowers to use their powers for something useful, like saving people who want to live, instead of worrying for hours about some whiny fucking bitch who works at mcdonalds?
>>67673340
I don't get it, WB says it was a fun movie and you jump into the ship shouting it was mindless. Then you come up with this, make up your minds.
>>67668971
Tearing up here.
>>67673875
You are a homosexual.
>>67672202
Why doesn't Clark use his super facial hair growing powers to grow a large moustache when he's pretending to not be Superman? Glasses are one thing but it's not as if the average person can grow a moustache that quickly, it would probably allay suspicion better.
Why did superman ever leave the farm?
couldn't he literally just be a farmer and use super powers to do with with ease and quick as fuck while making decent money, it would even let him fuck off whenever he needed too as no one else would be on the farm and it involves a lot of waiting.
>>67668388
>doesnt pay attention to a simple detail of the movie
>one more retarded aspect of a bad movie
I think the movie isn't retarded, but you are
>>67674060
Someone showed me an episode from Justice Leage where Superman gets trapped on another planet without his powers and in short order, he's grown shaggy hair and a bushy beard, and wrestles wolves.
Most badass Supes ever. Also better writing than this shit movie.
>>67674111
Man, I'd checked out long before the final three minutes.
You'll also note that I acknowledged my mistake and owned it - something the filmmakers aren't very likely to emulate.
Guys, settle an argument for me. Who started the fight between Batman and Supes? I say Superman started it because he directly confronted Batman and threatened him, while Batman has been working covertly the whole time. My brother said Batman is at fault because he's been seeking a weapon to use against Superman the whole time. But I say their was no proof that he was going to use it. He's the type of guy who likes a contingency plan. So who's right and who started the fight between them.
It should have been two movies.
Suicide Squad should have been this month, then next month/June we should have got BvS were Batman goes of the deepend and kills joker, Supes could then intervene and then we could get the great Batman fucking up Superman scenes we wanted. You could then end the movie with Batman faking his own death.
6 months later we could have got Superman: Dawn of Justice, were Aquaman, mexiflash, Cyborg, and Wonder Woman get found by Supes/Batman, and then get their ass handed to them by doomsday, leading to the actual death of superman and the formation of the Justice league.
Instead we got a shitty conglomeration of story lines, and supes, who is basically omni present in this universe, cant even save his mummy.
>>67674123
>Superman gets trapped on another planet
It was a Planet of the Apes deal: Earth in the far future.
Superman cant go back being Clark Kent. JL movies will be pure Superman characterization.
>>67674192
You would then have to change the entirety of the plot of Suicide Squad, or throw another film in between. Though I have no idea what the fuck Suicide Squad is even about so who knows, there may be more Batman in there than anyone is expecting.
>>67674221
Spoilers
>>67674333
Suicide Squad is pretty much standalone,it's just Harley& friends doing shit for the government.
>>67670257
Which part? Please elaborate.
>>67669993
>>67669865
>Wasting Darkseid in JL part1
Not even Snyder is that retarded. Part1 will be gathering the Leauge and Darkseid's generals coming to earth. Part 2 is Darkseid on earth+earth 2 evil Supes mixed in with some Injustice.
>>67674533
And it will suck
In this "real world with real consequences" of Snyder, nobody would believe Superman resurrected.
Everyone would say his death was just a government ploy.
Reminder that Clark's body contains the entire Kryptonian race in microcosm.
>>67668578
It just said he was missing
It never specifically said hes kill
>>67675257
Did you even watch the film? It said Reporter killed in Gotham clash.
Jesus.
>>67668947
>Damaging tax payer's property when he could have just flown down and asked
Typical statist scumbag.
>>67672261
I am not your doormat.
