He did literally nothing wrong
>>67560260
except killing a bunch of people
>>67560372
He killed millions of people to allegedly save the world from nuclear holocaust.
You can't be sure of what might have happened.
Did as many people die in the graphic novel with the giant alien squid ruse? Also did Ozy turn the world against Dr. Manhattan?
>>67560640
Other than the scene showing nixon clearly willing to launch nukes preemptively?
He did what was necessary.
>being a jew
>did nothing wrong
Quentin?
>>67560260
He did a lot wrong. The problem is he already did it and undoing it would do more harm than good.
>>67560793
No, 3 million people, about the entire Manhattan island, die in the graphic novel. In the movie it's upwards of 15+ million. No, Ozy doesn't turn the world against Dr. Manhattan in the graphic novel.
>>67560260
Except the "boys" folder in his computer
>>67560260
>blew up half the world so he could become king
>blamed it on someone else
everything he did was wrong
he killed more then a million people
>>67560260
He was a narcissistic genius who believed who knew what was best for the world.
The irony was that (in the graphic novel) as he commits his 'final plan'. Nixon and the Soviets call each other to perhaps resolve their conflict minutes before Nuclear War.
You cant predict the future. Ozy believed in pure objective right and wrong - which is why Dr Manhattans answer fucks him up when he asks if the did the right thing 'in the end'.
>>67561105
>The irony was that (in the graphic novel) as he commits his 'final plan'. Nixon and the Soviets call each other to perhaps resolve their conflict minutes before Nuclear War.
I don't remember this...
>Ozymandias will never save your Earth from Islam
>>67560823
I'd argue that his entire plan was unnecessary. All he did was add more fuel to the fire think of this whole situation without Adrian in the picture.
So by Rohrshack giving his diary to the press, doesn't that undo all the "good" Ozy thought he was doing?
>>67560793
nah it was like half the population of manhattan or something so only a few mil compared to the movie which was dozens
>>67561282
If they use it and if anyone believes them. God Watchmen is such a good story for how much discussion it warrants.
>>67560640
I wouldn't call Ozymandias a good guy necessarily, but since he's the smartest man in the world and all that shit, he must have been pretty sure there was a nuclear holocaust coming to resort to this.
>>67561282
Its not as simple as that. Watchmen is more about how you cant change human nature.
Rorshachs journal will allow that 'conspiracy' to live on. Most people wont believe it - but the truth will be out there.
Adrians future will largely come to pass - a unified world. But it wont last as alluded to by Dr. M here >>67561105
What he did was objectively correct - but morally reprehensible - and as time goes on humans will revert back to their nature and try to kill each other - or something else will occur. Ozy viewed it as a 'final answer to mankinds problems'
>>67560260
is ur copy of the movie in 2000x1339, if so, hook me up
>>67561357
Not even Dr Manhattan could have truly predicted the future So yeah being the "smartest man and shiet" and "pretty sure" is not good enough to justify what he has done.
>>67561341
>If they use it and if anyone believes them. God Watchmen is such a good story for how much discussion it warrants.
This.
Is it truly the master of Capekino? I remember Watchmen got really shit ratings as well.
BvS follows closely behind it imo.
Reminder that Dr. Manhattan could have disarmed and destroyed all the nuclear weapons in the entire world (NATO and Warsaw) in the blink of an eye. For all his moping and bitching about human nature he sure didn't do much.
>>67560994
>3 million
I think you forget his little spiel afterwards about Jerusalem becoming a widow to Egypt. Ozy foresees and is willing to stage another alien attack if his peace begins to falter. That being said he is in the right with what he knows but Moore fucks him over with foreshadowing because he doesn't like authority figures.
>>67561857
>Reminder that Dr. Manhattan could have disarmed and destroyed all the nuclear weapons in the entire world (NATO and Warsaw) in the blink of an eye. For all his moping and bitching about human nature he sure didn't do much.
He had no idea where they were. Hes not Omniscient - he says this himself, he can only see his OWN future (and that was getting fucked up because of all the possible paths of nuclear destruction).
He was also still dealing with his fading humanity - and not wanting to be seen as a God figure.
>>67561857
He actually can't although it's ambiguous if this is due to apathy or not. The comics touch on this.
>>67561159
>detonate nukes in mecca and every single urban center with a majority of muslims
>blame it on israel
>trigger second holocaust and kill all the jews
>finally piece on earth
>>67561339
Jesus fucking Christ. This is why people think the movie ending was better, cus they're fucking retarded. In the movie and the comic millions were killed in major cities all over the world. The plan wouldn't have worked if they only killed a couple thousand in one US city.
The whole fucking point was to unite the world against an outside force. Which Dr Manhattan the American born scientist wasn't. He fucking fought in Vietnam.
>Dr Manhattan isn't on Earth anymore so he's an extra terrestrial instead of American
Bravo Zack
>>67561892
>I think you forget his little spiel afterwards about Jerusalem becoming a widow to Egypt. Ozy foresees and is willing to stage another alien attack if his peace begins to falter.
I'll have to reread it I don't remember that, but if that's true then the future of peace is certain.
>>67561857
Adrian had tachyon satellites in place to fuck up Dr. Manhattan's view of the future.
>For all his moping and bitching about human nature he sure didn't do much.
Well yes he doesn't care about humanity. The Comedian calls him out on this. In the film, Rorscach calls him out on this too.
>Suddenly you discover humanity...convenient. If you had cared from the start, none of this would've happened.
He only cares when it comes to semi-selfish reasons, that the scum of humanity can produce a beautiful woman like Sally Jupiter. All this to say: Dr. Manhattan is a fucking cunt yes, but none of us can know what it's like to perceive time as he does so it's not too fair.
>>67562083
>In the movie and the comic millions were killed in major cities all over the world
That's not true. The "alien" is only teleported to Manhattan island, killing 3 million. I remember that number distinctly.
>The whole fucking point was to unite the world against an outside force. Which Dr Manhattan the American born scientist wasn't. He fucking fought in Vietnam.
It adds a new layer to the film if you ask me. Dr. Manhattan discovers humanity, accepting his role as "Superman," so to speak. But in discovering his new found care for them he is immediately ostracized and made the villain that will unite them all.
>>67561282
Yes if anyone cared to believe it. The point is Rorschach only cares about punishing evil. He didn't care if it was all for nothing or the big plan he just wanted Ozy to pay for his crimes
>>67562083
>Every major city in the world gets fucked over by an American superweapon
>The rest of the world will dogpile the US; the US will be everyone's common enemy and the US will immediately declare that Manhattan fucked off or something, it's totally not their fault! No one will give a shit what they have to say since their attack dog they paraded around for three fucking decades got loose and killed a shitload of people
>Insanely surreal alien monster teleports into only an American city, murdering millions with the blast energies from the teleportation and simultaneously releases a psychic wave where every human on the planet has visions of it and some impending alien force
You can argue about how outlandish and dumb the psychic squid is, but its effect on the world is far and away more logical than what Snyder's Manhattan craters would produce.
opinions on Nite cuck
Comedian calls the human race basically lobotomized retards. That was really funny. Adrian couldn't save the human race from itself, he could only deform it and create something else.
>>67562195
>But in discovering his new found care for them he is immediately ostracized and made the villain that will unite them all.
But he leaves anyway in the comic. He comes back to resolve one thing and then leaves to another galaxy. In both versions of the story, him being demonized or him just witnessing squid shit, he doesn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of him.
>>67562324
I've been saying this since it came out and the usual response is "lol how does a giant squid make more sense than explosions lol you're dumb XD".
>>67562338
which Batman movie/tv series is that from?
>>67561700
But the movie sucks. It has literal 10/10 source material to work with, but Snyder manages to fuck it up with his style that feels like fucking sludge on-screen and his masturbatory fight scenes.
>>67562083
Dr. Manhattan becomes an "outside force" after the world is led to believe he attacked them. He killed Americans and Soviets, now they are brought together in a mutual struggle to defeat him. Not to mention he's the only true superhero with supernatural abilities. So to all humans, yes, he is somewhat of an alien.
>>67562083
>The whole fucking point was to unite the world against an outside force.
No, it fucking wasn't. It was to unite against a common threat. Manhattan was a common threat given he apparently murdered millions of people indiscriminately in an instant.
I'm convinced Watchmenfags are completely retarded when they make this bafflingly stupid claim about how only psychic squid aliens can ever be a threat worth setting aside differences over.
>>67561105
>The irony was that (in the graphic novel) as he commits his 'final plan'. Nixon and the Soviets call each other to perhaps resolve their conflict minutes before Nuclear War.
Are you sure? Don't remember that.
>>67562419
>But he leaves anyway
That's true, but it's just that little bit of substance. When Manhattan is viewing the TV screens, seeing the world unite against him, his face contorts to helplessness for a second because he knows he can't punish Veidt and he knows he has to accept the world hating him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SOSVAHXF4oI#t=15
He effectively gives up, and Billy Cudup's voice hammers it home with the very uncharacteristically weak "he's right."
For the record I enjoy the comic more.
>>67562324
Not to mention it almost makes the Comedians story arch completely pointless. The whole "it's all a big joke" thing doesn't make any sense. If he told Owl or Rorsh that Ozy was gonna kill millions and frame Manhattan they would've listened. Also thematically the Black Freighter doesn't fit in at all anymore.
>>67562582
All of this could have still happened with the squid ending.
>>67562619
> Comedians story arch completely pointless
Are you serious? Maybe I interpreted it wrong - but the Comedian actually AGREED with Ozy - hence "Its all a big joke". He choice his name to parody the brutal - stupid nature of humanity in the first place.
Obviously the severe brutal degree of what Ozy was going to do broke him - killing children and others in Vietnam and more he could fit under his Psyche - but Ozy's mass murder of millions led him to fall apart.
In fact Ozy only killed him to keep the other Watchmen distracted from realizing what he was doing.
>>67562324
>Osama Bin Laden is an American agent
>al Qaeda blows up shit in New York, and in Africa, the Middle East and Europe
>every country on Earth declares war on the US for setting that asshole loose
Oh wait that didn't happen. I wonder why? Fucking plot holes in reality.
>>67562665
Yes I know I read the comic too. But it's that little bit more of layering, in that Dr. Manhattan accepts his role as earth's villain to unite them all despite having just discovered his ability to care for them. So good.
>>67562619
>If he told Owl or Rorsh that Ozy was gonna kill millions and frame Manhattan they would've listened
This criticism can be leveled against either iteration I think.
>>67562555
>psychic
That's how it unifies people. The psychic shockwave it sends out scares those not at the blast site due to the stories survivors give about the imagery and sound imprinted in the squid's psych.
>>67562582
>uncharacteristically weak
And that's where I dislike your interpretation. Crudup made Manhattan feel distant and detached pretty well, but it wasn't through a confident objectivity when talking around others, it was through Manhattan feeling entirely ethereal in his presence. He feels weak and uncaring at all times in the movie except during I SAID, LEAVE ME ALONE.
The way the conversation goes in the movie, it doesn't sound like he cares about the world hating him, it sounds like he's sulking because he was kind of outsmarted. He lays a savage verbal beatdown on Veidt, taunting him for an implied arrogance. There's an incredulity that Veidt, a man, could do anything to outmaneuver Manhattan.
>What's that? Another ultimate weapon?
And then he realizes that Veidt "wins" by appealing to his rationality. I don't think Manhattan gives a shit about people hating him. He hasn't given a shit about that in a long time. He barely gave a shit about Laurie cheating on him.
Manhattan craters don't add anything to the movie for me.
>>67560886
https://desustorage.org/_/search/tripcode/p3mpBqBwOeY/
he hasn't posted in a while
>>67562619
Another glaring plot hole is: how the fuck did the Comedian find out about about the plan? In the comic he finds out about the missing scientists and the island and uncovers everything. In the movie he just knows somehow.
>>67562804
>the only thing that can unite people is if they literally mind meld during a catastrophe
Just proving how fucking retarded you are.
The movie played things smart. It isn't a comic book. It doesn't have as many issues as it fucking wants to establish how the fuck a psychic squid alien works. They adapted it properly to so it would fit in a more manageable run-time (and even then, the movie borders on too long). Making Manhattan the apparent villain was an elegant solution.
>>67562808
>but it wasn't through a confident objectivity when talking around others, it was through Manhattan feeling entirely ethereal in his presence. He feels weak and uncaring at all times in the movie except during I SAID, LEAVE ME ALONE.
In interviews, Crudup gave Manhattan that voice because he felt, I'm paraphrasing, that a being as powerful as Dr. Manhattan would try to make people feel at ease around him. I agree with the sentiment about confident objectivity, that's something I loved about Dr. Manhattan in the comic.
>If I'm to have a symbol it shall be one I respect
Love that part.
>The way the conversation goes in the movie, it doesn't sound like he cares about the world hating him, it sounds like he's sulking because he was kind of outsmarted. He lays a savage verbal beatdown on Veidt, taunting him for an implied arrogance. There's an incredulity that Veidt, a man, could do anything to outmaneuver Manhattan.
That's an interesting take on it, but I can't help but disagree. His facial expression says it all. His reluctance to kill Rorscach says it all.
>I don't think Manhattan gives a shit about people hating him. He hasn't given a shit about that in a long time. He barely gave a shit about Laurie cheating on him.
You're objectively wrong here for both iterations. On Mars, Dr. Manhattan discovers the beauty of humanity in Sally Jupiter's existence from someone as despicable as Blake.
>>67562804
>The psychic shockwave it sends out scares those not at the blast site due to the stories survivors give about the imagery and sound imprinted in the squid's psych
Was that a thing? I don't remember that being part of the squid's programming.
>>67562747
>Osama Bin laden is an American agent
lol
>every country on Earth declares war on the US for setting that asshole loose
I wonder if you realize that America is actually demonized by most of the world as this war mongering bully that is fueling terrorism through their intervention in the Middle East. It is upsetting that you are actually oblivious about this.
Not to mention that this is a fucking god awful analogy. I don't think America had Bin Laden shake hands with the president. I don't think America paraded Bin Laden around as the pinnacle of American military might. I don't think America had him single-handedly win a war for them. I don't think America wrote puff pieces and had him on talk shows all day.
>>67562851
>plot hole
No not really, given the whole cut and uncut up versions of this film, them simply not having a scene where he discovers his plan is not a plothole
>>67562851
The Movie doesn't cover it enough in detail - but they briefly mention that he worked for the Government after Vietnam and was investigating some research base - and found out that way
>>67563032
>I don't think America had him single-handedly win a war for them.
He won the Afghan-Soviet war for us dickhead
>>67563017
>His facial expression says it all. His reluctance to kill Rorscach says it all.
He understands without condoning or condemning. His own objective rationality, after discovering a newfound love of life, has lead him to not be able to take any action against Veidt. He was outsmarted by Veidt. His facial expression is just another melancholy look in a long line, after horror that so much life was just taken.
>You're objectively wrong here for both iterations. On Mars, Dr. Manhattan discovers the beauty of humanity in Sally Jupiter's existence from someone as despicable as Blake.
One: It's Laurie. Sally is her mom.
Two: He rediscovers an appreciation of life. It doesn't mean that he cares about people hating him. Those things are completely mutually exclusive. You don't have to feel bad about the guy next door disliking you for you to be affected by someone robbing and murdering him.
I guess I should revise my statement and say that Manhattan hasn't given a shit about a lot of stuff except for things close to him. He's pretty fucking selfish. The only people seems to give a shit about are Janey and Laurie. It's why news of Janey's cancer is what is used to pressure him off the Earth in the first place.
>>67563134
Yeah, dude, it was just America that funded the Mujahideen. Wait, no, sorry, in this version of events, America, acting independently, paid Bin Laden to do what Manhattan did--grow to 70 feet tall and walk around exploding people with a wave of his hand.
Shit, did I get a different history book than you?
>>67563465
>He understands without condoning or condemning
That's after the helpless "he's right," line. Again we can just agree to disagree here.
>One: It's Laurie. Sally is her mom.
Oh right.
>It doesn't mean that he cares about people hating him. Those things are completely mutually exclusive. You don't have to feel bad about the guy next door disliking you for you to be affected by someone robbing and murdering him.
Guess we'll agree to disagree here too. The actor's face says it for me.
>I guess I should revise my statement and say that Manhattan hasn't given a shit about a lot of stuff except for things close to him
Yes, at first. Then Laurie and he have that conversation on Mars that's the bulk of his arc.
>It's why news of Janey's cancer is what is used to pressure him off the Earth in the first place.
Yes, this is an event prior to the Mars conversation.
>>67563621
You're saying that if Bin Laden was more effective during the Afgan-Soviet war, then his future attacks on everybody would have been blamed on America?
>>67563621
>Yeah, dude, it was just America that funded the Mujahideen
More or less. CIA did train a lot of Mujhadeen who in turn turned into AL Qeada
But blaming America for more violence in the Middle east is like getting made over spill lighter fluid on the 450 acre tire fire. They've been more or less at war since the 6th fucking century, not EBIL BIG BAD AMERGGDA :D:D:D:D
>>67562324
Holy shit you are autistic. The squid ending would have ruined the film. The film ending made sense. You are just too stupid to see that
>>67564610
seriosuly the fuck, for the most part the comic book version is superior, but the movie ending actual makes fucking sense.
The Extended not for normies cut of WM is far better than the theatrical, pretty much different movies
>>67565010
Fun story, I only ever saw the director's cut of Watchmen and thought it was bretty gud 8.5/10 and was confused by the negative press it got up until a few months back when I watched the theatrical version with a friend; then I totally understood the reaction. They should have just put the 3-hour version in theaters, consequences be damned, because the theatrical cut is weak as fuck.
It really is amazing just how much of a discrepancy can exist between the version you see in theaters and the original vision. On one hand I thought BvS was utter shite, but on the other I'm genuinely interested in the director's cut version because I'm wondering if it's the same situation (though honestly probably nothing can salvage Wonder Woman watching what amounts to the trailer for her upcoming movie).
>>67565212
>BVS theatrical cut better
Unless there are cut scenes of Lex having actually fucking motivation to do anything he does in the film, it will still be shit.
and yeah No Black freighter backstory cut and other cut scenes.
All in all the biggest thing is a movie was too fuckign short to do watchmen
