No mean to sound /pol/, but would this documentary be as big of a deal if he were black?
>>65010650
It would be bigger
It would be bigger to the rest to the world.
/tv/ would give zero fucks about it, and if the show ever gets brought up it would be disregarded as SJW cuck propaganda. The threads would be derailed by BIG BLACK COCKS and dindu nuffins every time, and everyone would side with the police.
Nah, it's special cuz these guys have 70 IQs so it makes it kinda interesting, but that's all blacks, so who cares?
of course not. nobody cares about niggers. the more in jail or dead the better
>>65011691
This is so spot on.
>>65011913
Fuck you
>>65013135
Fuck you
Haven't seen the show, is it good?
Is he innocent?
>>65013375
>Haven't seen the show, is it good?
It is very good.
>Is he innocent?
It's up to you :^) but really, the show is more about the fuck ups of the justice system rather than knowing if Steven is guilty or not.
>>65013375
It's a tough call. The cops had a huge hard-on for the guy and were already caught massively covering up his innocence in a prior case. The two cops who discovered the evidence were in the middle of being deposed for the corruption. There was no blood and a lot of other fishy things about the evidence. If the cops are to be believed, yes he's guilty, but they had a lot of reasons to frame him and have done it before.
>>65013375
He is guilty as fuck.
But it's not the point of the show. The point is that you have no real rights.
Was it ever explained why Colburn had the license plate of the RAV4 on Nov 2?
The fucking thing is captured on tape. But everyone seems to just forget about it.
Nah, black people are wrongfully convicted all the time. Very few people give a fuck.
Probably wouldn't get half the reception it has if he were white. Either in terms of discussion, or just people even watching the documentary.
This show is a giant waste of time, he's guilty as fuck and there's nothing wrong with the system outside of the first 2 hours.
Cops did their job in the Teresa Halbach case. Jury did their job in the case. Steven had more than an adequate defense who did probably the best job anyone could do. However that doesn't help when you're actually guilty and actually retarded.
>>65013743
Because it doesn't prove anything.
All he did was ask to confirm the number on the plate. It sounds suspicious when you play creepy music, but his explanation that he was just making sure he had the right plate number makes sense.
>>65013375
There's no evidence that he's guilty, other than the forced confession of a mentally retarded child.
The only remaining evidence shows clear tampering on the part of the police.
It's a textbook case of reasonable doubt.
Am I the only one who is unironically sexually attracted to Barbara?
I'd wreck her pale white trash ass and make those saggy tits bounce hard
>>65013818
>The only remaining evidence shows clear tampering on the part of the police.
That's why the police officers were tried, right?
What is this clear evidence? I see some details that looks a little fishy, but there's no real reason to doubt it other than allow it to fit in your crazy conspiracy narrative. Could he have been framed? Maybe. Is it reasonable to assume so? No. That's unreasonable.
Whats the deal about this show? I watched one episode and its just aboutsome literal redneck retard with long history of violence who was framed/not framed/who gives a fuck but a bunch of equally retarded rednecks. At which point do I start to care?
>>65013816
then why did he call in to dispatch to just run a specific plate number? why not call the detectives to confirm? or why not just ask dispatch what the details of Teresa Halbach's car were? and why did he lie about knowing the make and year of the car?
>White trash
>Not honorary niggers
>>65013910
>and why did he lie about knowing the make and year of the car?
Because it was a leading question asking about insignificant details to him over a year earlier. He simply didn't know.
Also, what's the difference between calling dispatch and calling the detective? If anything the dispatch is a worse idea if he was trying to frame him because those calls are recorded.
>>65010650
there are hundreds of cases like this for blacks every year and no one gives a fuck about it
it happens to one poor white rural family in some shitty state and suddenly there's a justice system epidemic
>>65014016
Yes. Is there a problem with that?
>>65014016
>there are hundreds of cases like this for blacks every year and no one gives a fuck about it
Got a citation for that, Tumblr?
the show made me thankful for not being retarded
>>65013977
>He simply didn't know
>Also, what's the difference between calling dispatch and calling the detective?
they played him the audio of the call
he also said he called because the investigators had just given him the details and he wanted to confirm them...so why not just call the investigators back?
>>65013818
>forced confession
I must have skipped the part where they held a gun to his head and made him confess.
>>65014086
It was forced because they were mean and he's a big dummie >:(
I'm not even that mad that Brendan's in prison. I don't know if he did it, but he's in there based on his own stupid ass. He was so stupid he went to jail for a huge chunk of his adult life.
>>65014135
>coercing a confession out of a mentally retarded person and sending him to prison at the expense of taxpayers is okay
>>65010650
He is obviously innocent. I think the real killer was most likely his siter's husband and her other (not-retarded) son.
>>65014242
The ex-boyfriend was sketchy as hell, too.
>>65014016
>>65014226
First off, only some of it was coerced. The full four hour tape is up on youtube. Feel free to watch it.
And the coercsian really wasn't that coercive. They just said shit like "We're know you're lying, tell us the truth", and then he changes his answer and admits to murder.
That's not bad enough. He does it literally three times. First with the first interview. Again with his defense lawyer (Who was shitty, but still). Then again with the police after that. He's in jail based off his three confessions. Innocent people usually don't confess to a crime three times that they didn't commit.
>>65014339
Why, because whenever the documentary showed him they played creepy music? He completely cooperated with the investigation and took an active role in helping to find Teresa. There's literally zero evidence linking him to anything other than the fact that he knew Teresa. This is how fucking pathetic the Avery Defense Force is. They point fingers at everyone but the obvious fucking killer.
If he were black, he would have actually done both crimes.
>>65010650
If he was black they wouldn't have had to fake evidence
>>65014226
>coercing
There's that word again.
Please link me to footage of Dassey having false confessions tortured out of him with a power-drill.
You're like one of those college feminists that accuses frat boys of "coercing" women to have sex with them.
>>65014242
I'm one of the "conspiracy theorists" and I have no idea how people can say he's definitely innocent
what you can say, definitively and objectively, is that there was not sufficient evidence to find Avery guilty as reasonable doubt had been cast over the entirety of the prosecution's case
it's still possible he did it
>>65014575
>>65014086
you don't understand what 'coerce' means
>>65014449
This.
You truther-tards are hilarious.
Asking someone a question twice isn't "coercion".
And innocent people typically don't admit to elaborate crimes they didn't commit, even if they're stupid.
>>65013895
When his retarded 16 yo nephew gets framed due to a manufactured forced confusion and a lawyer that threw him under the bus
>>65014610
It certainly doesn't mean "asked a question more than once".
>>65010650
So did he get framed?
>>65014631
>his retarded 16 yo nephew gets framed due to a manufactured forced confusion
I'm assuming you meant "confession"?
Nothing about his confession was "forced", and if anybody manufactured it, it was him.
So you're wrong on both counts.
>>65014614
>And innocent people typically don't admit to elaborate crimes they didn't commit, even if they're stupid.
Except it has happened before
>>65013329
Mad nigger
>>65014614
>And innocent people typically don't admit to elaborate crimes they didn't commit, even if they're stupid.
Typically, innocent people will admit to just about anything if someone in authority promises that they can go home if they just confess.
>>65014648
>tell us the truth
>no, not that truth
>tell us this truth
bam, we gottem!
I think Avery's probably guilty. His demeanor in the documentary from the time the murder happens is so odd and reserved compared to how he was when he was released. Then he doesn't take the stand because he says he's innocent which doesn't make sense.
Dassey is a poor motherfucker though. still dont know how he got convicted on charges that were thrown out of Avery's trial. seems very susp
>>65013375
All evidence pointing to him can be explained by a narrative which, although lacking in concrete evidence, can be easily inferred due to a number of anomalies and coincidences in the investigation- that is, that the cops tried to frame the shit out of him. That includes plausible cause for them to do so btw
>>65014648
>if you answer this question truthfully everything will be ok, if you answer this question untruthfully things will be bad for you
>here is my answer
>that is untruthful, things are about to be bad for you unless you tell us the truth, in which case everything will be ok, btw the truth is this specific thing we are telling you right now
>ok I don't want things to be bad so I will repeat these specific things you have told me because everything is going to be ok
>thank you, you are now going to prison for the rest of your life, oh and btw everything will be ok
>>65011913
Yup, it this was a nigger his crimes would be assaulting a store for skittles etc.
>>65013895
that's just the set up to the rest of the season you fucking moron
>>65014721
>His demeanor in the documentary
it's because he's resigned to the fact that he's going to prison, regardless
watch him after the guilty verdict is read out, it's not the reaction of a guilty person upset he didn't manage to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, it's the reaction f someone who has been resigned to his fate for a long time - he knew it was going to be guilty
i fucked a girl from manitowoc and am here to answer any questions you might ahve about the case.
>>65014614
>And innocent people typically don't admit to elaborate crimes they didn't commit, even if they're stupid.
Yes, he admitted to slashing her throat and choking her until she died while she was tied up to the bed, and then all the blood magically disappeared.
Dassey's confession contradicts so much of the material evidence, that there is no way it could possibly be true.
>>65014575
It has been documented that some confessions are false due to all sorts of reasons. Dassey was a 16 yr old with the mental capacity of an 8 yr old who was questioned for more than 4 hrs. The police keep on insisting that he had something to do with it, you can tell that he has no idea what they are talking about and he just starts guessing. His stories are not even consistent with one another and there was zero physical evidence to connect him to anything he said.
>>65014847
>Manitowoc
Were her parents siblings or cousins?
>>65010650
Are you kidding me people would be making a way huger deal about it if he was black on top of everything else
>>65014847
>that grammar
Are you from Manitowoc County as well?
If you've watched the show, seen how much the letters mean to the Avery's, live in the US and haven't sent them a letter, why are you so goddamn cold?
>>65014847
how is vagina like?
>>65014847
was brendan a result of steve and barb doin' it?
>>65014841
I mean even when the news interviews him while Teresa is missing. His answers are very short like he's just clammed up saying he doesn't know. Seems like something a dumb person would do after he murdered someone and hopes to get away with it.
I still dont believe she was killed like the police say. seems like there has to be a murder site somewhere else on the property or in some woods close by
>>65014894
no
>>65014916
No. what's the problem with my grammar? Do you mean orthography?
>>65014943
it's okay.
>>65014948
honestly I think it's probably anoxic brain injury during birth.
>>65014847
How's it like to have sex with your cousin? Does it get awkward?
From the way he neglected his children and doesn't even list them in his "things I want to get back to" list, is there really that much of a difference?
>>65013329
sick argument breh
kim k boutta get them all freed
>>65015057
>I mean even when the news interviews him while Teresa is missing. His answers are very short like he's just clammed up saying he doesn't know
or maybe he just didn't know?
>>65010650
Society is obsessed with blacks for some reason. This shit would be even bigger if it were about a black guy, dude wouldn't even have to be innocent.
>>65014614
>And innocent people typically don't admit to elaborate crimes they didn't commit, even if they're stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
>>65015057
>His answers are very short like he's just clammed up saying he doesn't know.
If you've been falsely suspected of murder and the media starts asking you questions, what would you do?
>>65013743
You can easily get on motor vehicle records, search someone's name, and find vehicles titled to them with plate numbers.
>>65011691
Wrong, you're a dumb faggot. It's obvious this guy is guilty as shit and the cops are right even if he's white.
If Brendan's mom was hat home during the time of the murder, wouldn't she have heard the gunshots? The trailers are so close together.
>>65014721
>Then he doesn't take the stand because he says he's innocent which doesn't make sense.
innocent or guitly, you NEVER take the stand. No defense attorney with a brain would let you do that.
>>65014697
>Typically, innocent people will admit to just about anything if someone in authority promises that they can go home if they just confess.
I'm innocent of killing Teresa Halbach. The police could keep me in their room for 6 days. I still wouldn't say I murdered her.
>>65013743
>99 Toyota?
>yeah
>ok thx bye
>>65015555
you're also not retarded.i presume
>>65015555
>It wouldn't happen to me, therefore it would never happen to anybody!
>>65015555
are you a 16 year old with an IQ of 70 who needs to get home to do their homework so they can watch Wrestlemania?
>>65014771
Part of the problem too was he was being inconsistent in that interview with the police.
He talked with them earlier than that and he told them some things. Then when he started telling the police again those situations changed. I think if you truly sit down and watch the whole interview you can tell Dassey is hiding something about this murder. Yeah the police told him a couple of things to say and he said them, but to think Dassey is completely innocent from all of this is silly.
Also, he was read his Miranda rights multiple times and acknowledged that he understood what they meant, so he was informed that anything he said in that room could be used to convict him of murder.
recommendations for new true crime series/movies pls
I've seen
MaM
The Jinx
Thin Blue Line
Paradise Lost
Murder on a Sunday Morning
The Staircase
Capturing the Friedmans
>>65015666
>Also, he was read his Miranda rights multiple times and acknowledged that he understood what they meant
the kid was a fucking potato, i could convince him he was a fucking cat.
>>65015666
it remains possible that Brendan was involved in the murder...because Bobby & Scott did it, got him to help and told him to say Steve did it if he was ever asked
>>65015628
His post implied that innocent people in that situation will admit to anything.
>>65015110
Probably because his ex wife doesn't want them anywhere near him because of all this shit.
>>65015555
Brendan had an IQ of 70 or less. The police tell him "tell us the truth", Brendan says something. "No that is not the truth if you don't tell us the truth(i.e. what we want to hear) things will not be okay." Brendan never even tells them they shot Theresa, the detectives tell Brendan and then he just nods. And when he finally tell them what they want to hear he doesn't even understand the gravity of the situation and is more worried about his 6th period project at school.
>>65015307
This video has made me so fucking paranoid.
>>65014721
Taking the stand is a fools errand. If you can avoid it then you never ever take the stand.
>>65015666
Just because somebody says they understand something doesn't mean they actually do. Dassey is a literal retard. He was probably under the false impression that if he was innocent, then he couldn't hurt himself by talking.
>>65015746
It won't always happen, but it can and has happened, especially when the person being questioned is dumb.
>>65015555
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession
>>65013375
He's probably guilty. Show is really fun, but its portrayal of the legal system is pretty hogwash. Lots of documentary bias, so take the perceived corruption with a grain of salt.
>>65015798
Again, watch the full interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOaIDxirHE
>>65015826
Being dumb is not reasonable doubt. It was his word against his own word. If he was innocent, he shouldn't have said all the things he said. I don't care if he's stupid. He was read his Miranda rights, the interview was completely legal, there was nothing excessive or even excessively coercive about anything in the interview. It was presented before a fair trial with a fair jury and a fair verdict was given to him.
>Oh but he might be innocent
Then he shouldn't have admitted to it. Especially not three fucking different times.
Never forget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
>>65014703
That's STILL not coercion.
I've been asked something multiple times too. I didn't immediately start making shit up afterwards.
>>65015914
>I don't care if he's stupid
retarded, he's psychiatricly retarded
>>65015837
If it was just the one interview, you might have a point.
But it was three separate times. The second two were made after being well well informed about the legal implications of his words.
>>65015929
People don't know what coercion is. They think questions that attempt to get an answer = coercion, but that's what the police do. They must abide by rules or the interrogation gets thrown out, but they didn't break any rules here.
>>65010650
I went and searched up "man wrongfully imprisoned" and I just found six different black guys. I doubt it would be as big of a deal. Maybe people are desensitized to black people getting shafted by the law.
See this is why innocent people go to jail. Because they "seem" like they did something. Instead of being as objective as possible and using facts, people just decide guilt based on how someone looks or acts.
>all these people who claim suggestion isn't a thing
Niggas, it's like you've never fucked a stranger before
>>65015837
>In 2000 Corethian Bell, who has a diagnosis of mental retardation, was accused of murdering his mother after he found her body and called police. Police questioned him for more than 50 hours. He said he eventually confessed to the murder of his mother, Netta Bell, because police hit him so hard he was knocked off his chair, and because he thought that if he confessed, the interrogations would stop, so that he could then explain himself to a judge and be set free.
>more than 50 hours
How is that legal?
>>65015986
If you watch the interview they weren't even really all that aggressive. They were just like "No, we don't believe you tell us the truth", and then he changes his answer. They didn't slap him. They didn't even yell at him.
>>65016001
Or they admit to it three separate times, then change their minds when they go to court.
>>65015955
He's not retarded. He had a borderline IQ, and he attended normal school classes and played school sports. He was your average complete dumb shit, but he wasn't some "yeah. yeah. yeah. yeah." savant that some people here actually think. Hell, I found out the other day that the "yeah" thing is just cultural for that area - it's hick/sounds dumb as fuck but regular people do it all the time.
>>65016056
>savant
Do you even know what that word means?
>>65015914
>It was presented before a fair trial with a fair jury and a fair verdict was given to him.
The lawyer that had been appointed to him at that time was a relative of the victim and made terrible decisions for Dassey. When he was thrown out, that confession should have also been thrown out. His three confessions were inconsistent, in one they are literally telling him what to draw, and there is zero evidence to back up any of his outlandish story which involves rape, multiple stabbings and torture with ropes and chains. I find it hard to believe that Dassey was capable of getting rid of all the blood that he story required, all and any fingerprints, and any fibers of rope anywhere on Avery's trailer.
>>65016001
That's why OJ, Zimmerman, and Casey Anthony are in prison, right?
Trolling aside, did this dude get away with the prefect murder?
>>65014847
Sup Greg
>>65016080
Yes, but most people think Rainman when they read savant. Hoffman wasn't retarded, but he acted retarded / was really susceptible to any questioning. That's really what the pro-Dassey side is - they think Dassey was especially susceptible to the interrogation, when really there's not much that shows that unless you're already biased (and the documentary makes sure to tell you Dassey is retarded as fuck before you see him... so of course you see him as retarded - its the documentary bias skewing shit up).
>>65015798
>Brendan never even tells them they shot Theresa, the detectives tell Brendan and then he just nods.
he actually does, but it isn't until they've already told him she was shot
he claims they shot her five times, in the head and stomach
>>65015383
Yikes
>>65016125
https://twitter.com/preid84/status/684381538230878209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
DENIERS BTFO
>>65011691
>It would be bigger to the rest to the world.
not in mexico desu
>>65016119
>I find it hard to believe that Dassey was capable of getting rid of all the blood that he story required, all and any fingerprints, and any fibers of rope anywhere on Avery's trailer.
I find it harder to believe he would incriminate himself voluntarily on three separate occasions.
>>65016056
70 IQ means retarded
>>65016122
>Zimmerman
>guilty
>>65010650
Is there a magical place a can go to on the internet that isn't a shithole like this? I mean fucking seriously all you people care about are liberals, jews, races, communist, and guns and I'm so sick of it. It's not entertaining to read at all and the internet's just becoming a tool to indoctrinate people into political sides. I don't mind a little sillyness but all you people do is bait people into debates for your shitshow.
>>65016056
>and he attended normal school classes
Some of his classes were for "special" kids. Borderline retarded is just that, almost retarded, he doesn't function like a normal person. How are you gonna question a kid like that without a lawyer, parents, not even a counselor? Do you really think he understood his miranda rights?
>>65016157
What the hell are you talking about? A savant is an intelligent, educated person.
You may be thinking of "idiot savant". Nobody in their right mind would consider Dassey to be an idiot savant.
>>65016222
only thing he is guilty of, :D
>>65016125
>>65016174
>>65016202
During court, the testimony said he had a borderline IQ. How many criminals do you think have a borderline IQ? How many murderers? A ton. I don't think Dassey was actually an accomplice, and he probably did say a bunch of shit to the police that wasn't actually true because he tripped over his own shit... but he definitely was involved SOMEHOW with the sudden changes + telling his cousin. Personally, I think Avery is a fucking violent, bad person who abused Dassey and got Dassey to help him cover up the murder.
>>65016241
>omg this place allows for NON-LIBERAL opinions? someone get me out of here! #triggered
There's plenty of places for you.
Reddit. Neo-Gaf. Something Awful.
They all censor any non-liberal opinions to make sure delicate people like you feel like they have a safe-space.
>>65016167
>he actually does, but it isn't until they've already told him she was shot
That was my point. The police ask him tell us what happened to her head? Brendan just starts guessing, we punched her, we stabbed her, etc... the police tired of not getting what they want, are the ones who tell him he was shot which he then confirms. If Brendan had really been there for the shooting he should have told the police before the police suggested it.
>>65015974
his story kept changing, adding more details that were fed to him by the investigators AND the investigator
>>65016242
His mom consented to the interview, so there was no wrongdoing on the police. Blame her for not bringing in an attorney immediately. If he accidentally/for whatever reason incriminated himself... that's really not the police's fault.
>>65016290
is this real?
>>65016201
>I find it harder to believe he would incriminate himself voluntarily on three separate occasions.
For the millionth time, the guy was is nearly retarded and doesn't think like a normal person. His confessions were not consistent and on one of those confessions he is told what to draw, "draw yourself raping her, now draw the chains, now draw this and that". The physical evidence is what should have counted. Now I'm not talking about Avery I'm talking about Brenda, where was the physical evidence that connected him to anything he said?
>there are people who actually think Steven is innocent
>>65016317
This. He is a retard and leave. They promise him if he did it they would let him go.
>>65016317
people are now claiming that the more elaborate confession gives, where he describes everything in detail without pause, is concrete evidence - but that "confession" is given on May 13th - the day after the Michael O-Kelly interview (the shitty investigator who worked for Len Kachinsky, where he basically coaches Brendan into describing and drawing specific things), and it's a full 3 months after the initial video interview
>>65013816
This, the entire fucking thing was dishonest film making
they spent the last episode slandering Krats, which was completely unrelated to the case
they also failed to bring up the sexual assault chargers his brothers were caught on, the actual confession from Brandon that showed Steven took out the car battery
and the biggest piece was Brandons sister/cousin who told the police that he had told her shit about killing Teresa
This whole thing was made by two dykes looking to jump on the #BLM movement and fuck the police shit
I hate that after one biased as fuck series people want to see this fucked up asshole go free
>>65016301
No you fucking dipwit. Here you go again spewing politics. How predictable.
I don't give a shit about NON-LIBERAL ideas. I Don't give a shit about LIBERAL ideas. I don't want censorship. I don't want a safe-place. I just want somewhere to actually discuss the topic instead of using it as a place mat for a shit-flinging show. Is it so difficult for people to understand that it's possible to leave your political views behind and actually have factual discussions that enable others to make their own opinions? I fucking hate reddit with a passion just as much as this place. You all just want your stage to say the things you would never say in real life and that's the only reason you obsess over niggers and faggots. End of story.
>>65016290
>afraid of women
>kills a woman
Theory doesn't fit. He's afraid not angry.
>>65016430
>the confession is given the day after a Michael O-Kelly interview
What does this mean? What are you implying?
>>65016174
Oh wow, I was just memeing when I said he did it but this is something else.
>>65016174
The boyfriend theory is really the most retarded one, imo. It basically requires police tampering with evidence, and it just doesn't make sense that officers would risk their careers and reputation to frame this guy. That shit doesn't happen as much as people think... and while they prob didn't like Avery, there was no motive (the bs about the suit is a joke - the officers weren't personally on the line for that).
>>65016384
Yes. It's from the student paper while he was at UW—Stevens Point. Just after Halbach dumped him, about two years before she was murdered.
>>65016435
>spent the last episode slandering Krats, which was completely unrelated to the case
the unethical behaviour of the prosecutor in the case is unrelated?
>failed to bring up the sexual assault chargers his brothers were caught on
Scott Tadych?
>the actual confession from Brandon that showed Steven took out the car battery
F: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after that car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car.
B: The he left the gun in the car.
F: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).
B: I don't know.
F: OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to the car?
B: Yeah.
F: What was that? (pause)
W: What did he do, Brendan?
W: It's OK, what did he do?
F: What did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? (pause)
B: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under.
F: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that?
B: Yeah.
>Brandons sister/cousin who told the police that he had told her shit about killing Teresa
after it had been in the media, and she then broke down crying in court saying it asn't true
>This whole thing was made by two dykes
see your point about things being completely unrelated to the case
>>65016496
Not samefag. But Okelly tells Brendan that he can help him only if he writes a confession and draws the crime. Both the confession and the drawings were directed by Okelly. Brendan writes that he wasn't there and that he only saw the fire wich Okelly tells hims it's wrong and to write that he raped her and murdered her, and that only by this he can help him. Brendan being the idiot that he is thinking if I say this, they are going to help me, so he goes along with the story.
>>65016603
To add, Dassey's brother is the most likely of the not-Avery theories (not that any of them are likely/good!). Access to burn pit. Could have for whatever the fuck reason wanted to kill Halbach, was there. Got his brother to incriminate himself + his uncle. But it's such a stretch... like, yeah, OJ's neighbor maybe could have done it (not that much of a stretch, but you know what I mean)
>>65016435
Ken Kratz, pls.
>>65016056
Steven was the on with an IQ of 70.
Brendan's IQ is never given, but Steve implies that he thinks Brendan's a retard.
>>65016416
I think there was not enough evidence to find him guilty
>>65016157
Rainman was an Autistic Savant. Not just a savant.
He was Autistic, that's why he acted the way he did. Did you even watch the movie?
Brenden wasn't Autistic. He was just stupid.
>>65016660
Why would the officer do this though? They have everything. They have blood. They have burned corpse on the property. They have criminal past. Why would he risk his career to add an implausible theory to an already slam dunk case? The murder/rape stuff doesn't even make sense due to the lack of blood, etc.
>>65013592
>the show is more about the fuck ups of the justice system rather than knowing if Steven is guilty or not.
This. Not many people seem to get that though.
>>65016496
did you watch the series? do you remember the scene with Michael O'Kelly where O'Kelly gives Brendan that sheet of paper that says "I am sorry I did X" and asks him to write out what he did?
>>65016222
I never said he was guilty. The media sure made him sound guilty though, and the jury made a fair and right decision on whether or not he was guilty of 2nd Degree Murder.
>>65016753
whats the borderline retarded IQ at?
>>65016332
And some details that weren't fed by the investigators he said too, like going underneath the hood of the RAV4, which is corroborated by physical evidence. Watch the whole interview, it's been linked in this thread already.
>>65016603
>the bs about the suit is a joke - the officers weren't personally on the line for that
actually it was quite possible that they would have been on the line for it - if it was found to be genuine misconduct and/or negligence the insurance wouldn't have paid out, and both the county as well as the individual officers involved could have been sued
>>65016798
I know what autism is anon, I mean fuck we're on 4chan. I was saying in my response that I used "savant" really liberally. We can argue about whether I broke its term, and yeah I probably should have said down syndrome instead, but come on nigga.
>>65016873
There's a huge fucking difference between being a savant and having down syndrome.
>>65016828
70
below that and you are actually deemed to be disabled
in reality anything below 75 means that you're basically a blank vessel
>>65016861
The lawsuit was already filed, anon. It was against the county, not officers in their individual capacity. You don't sue average joe for $$$ - you sue the government because that's the big bucks. If the insurance doesn't pay out, sucks for the county but they've got money.
>>65016639
>the unethical behaviour of the prosecutor in the case is unrelated?
Yes, because it had literally nothing to do with the case, or his ethical role as a prosecutor. Yeah, he took advantage of some girl. How does this affect the Avery case at all?
>after it had been in the media, and she then broke down crying in court saying it asn't true
>I was lying before but you gotta believe me now!
>>65010650
is this or The Jinx better?
>>65016753
Brendan is the one with the IQ of 73. It's in episode 4 at time 11:07
>>65016909
Yes, I know.
>>65011691
Yo Dre I got something to say
>>65016809
O'Kelly was Dassey's first attorney's investigator
he was trying to get a detailed confession so that they could plea bargain, and most of Brendan's confessions up to that point had been fairly inconsistent
the fact that none of Brendan's confessions were used in Avery's trial speaks to what the prosecutors actually thought of them
>>65016873
Yeah but you said something dumb of course I'm going to call you out you little fucking bitch.
>>65016809
O'kelly wasn't an officer he was a defense investigator who was working for Brendan's lawyer. Which makes the whole thing more fucked up for Brendan because his lawyer (kachinsky) and O'kelly should have actually done their best to protect the interest of their client, instead they are basically telling him to confess. The theory that the docu gives is that Kachinsky being a distant relative to Theresa wanted to build a case against Avery.
>>65016950
it's said he is 69-73
>>65016949
The Jinx is much better - but MaM is still very good
>>65016943
>how is it relevant to a case that a prosecutor is proven to be unethical
are you fucking serious
>>65017009
>The Jinx is much better
cool, I was weighing up between them both last night and started watching The Jinx. Good so far, creepy fucker.
>>65016978
You can't use confessions that are submitted during plea negotiations - just like you can't use settlement negotiation communication. Policy reasons being that we want to encourage people to negotiate and settle - don't want the criminal defendant to be told, "okay, tell us what you know and we'll decide whether to grant immunity" then later use the shit against the guy if they decide not to grant immunity.
The other stuff is wholly speculative. Again, it's possible... but it's for sure not crazy evidence of anything suspicious.
>>65016943
dont man,
this guy is an armchair reddit activist who thinks theyve uncovered a major conspiracy to make this rednecks life a living hell
These people are retarded and are looking for a purpose in their meaningless lives, this fills some sort of deep whole in them
>>65017045
Unethical in his personal life. Not in his professional life as a prosecutor.
Why did they spend 30 minutes showing how much of a piece of shit Kratz was, but they didn't talk about how Avery told his cellmates that burning bodies gets rid of the DNA? Or that after he got out of prison he was going to build a rape chamber to punish all of the women in the world for his wrong conviction?
I think those details have more relevancy than what a prosecutor did that had nothing to do with the case, or his ability, ethics, or judgement in said case, that was admitted to the justice system.
>>65017114
m80 don't even have to tell me. Every day I post the same shit in these threads. They'll never learn. Still fun to argue.
>>65017009
Paradise lost remains the GOAT though.
>>65017130
>jail snitches
Literally the lowest of the low of all witnesses. The police could have filled out their statements for them, had them sign, then put in a good word to the parole board.
>>65017114
Some of the shit on reddit is hilarious as fuck. Like when Avery's ex got on Nancy Grace, people were saying the ex helped kill Halbach and frame Avery.
>>65017130
>but they didn't talk about how Avery told his cellmates that burning bodies gets rid of the DNA? Or that after he got out of prison he was going to build a rape chamber to punish all of the women in the world for his wrong conviction?
The purpose of the documentary is to highlight alleged misconduct by the police/justice system, not to regurgitate every bit of evidence presented at the trial.
>>65017130
Agree with >>65017184
I don't think those witnesses mean anything and I think Avery's guilty. I've heard Canada doesn't jailhouse informants. If so, that's a really smart idea.
>>65016435
I just really don't understand why Steve would kill this woman, unless they got into some huge argument.
>recently got out of jail after 8 months
>working
>has a gf
>is about to sue the county/sheriff for 36 MILLION
why fuck all that up?
>>65017184
Yeah but when it's multiple sources, and you pair that up with the letters he sent to his ex-wife, and his history of abusive relationships, and now what his Ex fiance is saying. It makes since.
>>65017184
holy shit
it makes more sense that the police forged statements from convicts then Steven Avery said angry shit after getting locked into a jail for 16 years after a false conviction?
eat shit you tin foil hat nut job
>>65017268
I mean sense.
>>65017267
He was obsessed with her dude. She was afraid of him and thought he was creepy as fuck. He specifically asked for her. It's probable he raped and murdered her, just probably the murder happened a different way than the prosecution's theory.
His gf was in jail at the time iirc, was expected to get out soon. She said Avery hates women and is abusive as allll fuck. Like, serious beatings abusive.
>>65014903
Nah false cases involving Blacks/whites/browns/Clowns have happened so often that it's often ignored.
One father was on the other side of town when his young daughter was killed. The interrogators pretty much abused him and broke him to the point that he confessed that he did travel at impossible speeds form across town to kill his daughter then somehow return even faster then before. Then they revealed that he would be getting the Death penalty so he spent nearly a day proving that his obviously false and forced confession earlier on was false.
>>65017271
Because he's a psychopath who thought he could get away with it.
>>65017130
he sent sexts to the victim of a crime whilst he was prosecuting her ex-bf for it
>they didn't talk about how Avery told his cellmates that burning bodies gets rid of the DNA
>they didn't talk about how Avery told his cellmates that burning bodies gets rid of the DNA etc...
first, none of those things were presented at trial, and, second, part of the reason they weren't presented at trial is because they were unverified statements from sketchy convicts currently in prison (i.e. completely unreliable)
you know they also left out that experts testified that the fire could not have damaged the bones in the way they did? or an that an expert found that the bullet could not be linked to Avery's gun? or that Bobby Dassey's description of Teresa Halbach's clothes was completely at odds with what her other clients said she was wearing that day? or that a propane delivery worker said he saw a green SUV leave the property at about 3:40? or that there was deer blood all over the garage? or that there were no fingerprints on the key?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGU61L8u-hc
I just found this on the jewtube.
I'm literally fucking dying. This is the Avery Defense Force.
>>65017268
One thing that's really true is all the shit that's come out about this case that wasn't in the documentary is all really against Avery. I figured Avery's taped prison comments littered throughout the series were bullshit... but man this guy is fucking dangerous and a sociopath - it was all faked to the documentary guys. Everything in the documentary painted Avery as a fucking SAINT. From the very first episode with one of the younger relatives talking about him. It really goes to show that putting a camera in a criminal defendant's face + the face of his relatives is probably not the best way to get at the truth.
>>65017268
>multiple sources
who?
>letters he sent to his ex-wife
I'm guessing you have never been involved in a family dispute regarding children - abusive, even violent, letters are par for the course
>>65017419
>he sent sexts to the victim of a crime whilst he was prosecuting her ex-bf for it
What does that have to do with the Avery case. What does that have to do with Kratz other than he's a sleazy human being?
>>65017419
To be fair, there's a massive ass difference between getting obsessive toward a girl you think you can fuck and altering evidence/trying to get an innocent man convicted/whatever it is you guys think The Prize did.
Here's what I don't get:
Avery shoots Halbach in his garage or trailer or wherever. He then does an immaculate job of cleaning up blood and nearly all other evidence, but forgets to do something about the bullet.
He then proceeds to burn her body in some quarry on his property (but well away from his house) and then hauls her bones and other remains back closer to his home.
Wh would he do such a good, thorough job, but then make such huge blunders?
I'm watching this show, on episode four now. I'm not American. Can someone tell me what the fuck is the deal with these poor white people? Fuck, I must have seen Steven and Jodi in jail so many times I think they had more of a life spent in there than out. They also talk about it like a minor nuisance, not fucking jail.
What's with the IQs also? How can someone in a decent state of a world superpower grow up to be as stupid as the Brendan kid without at least being clinically recognized as retarded? The rest of the Avery family also doesn't look like the pinnacles of intelligence. Maybe the smartest ones are his mom and Barb because when they talk, it sounds NORMAL.
if he were black they wouldn't own a business, thus the documentary wouldn't be made.
the fact they had some amount of money and represented, basically, the middle class, is the only reason this documentary was made.
also the fact rectify exists, is the exact same story, except everyone involved was given 50 or so more IQ points.
>>65017607
First, he probably didn't kill her in the garage/trailer. There'd be blood splatter - there'd almost have to be blood splatter.
Second, criminals can do really good jobs but also make huge ass blunders when it's not planned. It's all about how things go down. Lots of room for success and/or error.
>>65017271
If you came out from the other end of that documentary thinking that the Sheriff's Department was full of honest cops who were above trading deals with criminals to get statements that help them in the Avery case, I don't know what to tell you.
Once you get caught planting evidence, you lose all credibility. The planting of the key alone created reasonable doubt that should have made a guilty verdict impossible.
>>65017616
Because some people are just stupid? The US has a population of 318 Million. Not everyone who lives here is going to get the best education or have the best genes. Especially not poor people.
Its a big deal beacuse its an extraordinary circumstance, regardless of race, gender, nationality, etc.
There are very few people who are exonerated from prison and then almost immediately involved in another high profile criminal case where the circumstances are extremely dubious and questionable. Most people who are freed after decades of being in jail and then go on to commit more crime very clearly guilty of it.
There are very few cases that have such a high degree of potential for and evidence suggesting police corruption and coverup.
There are very few cases where the somewhat sympathetic "protagonist" if you will, with his low IQ, poor white trash family, failed marriage and victim of justice system, goes from being the villain (suspected rapist), to being the hero (exoneration) to being ambiguous as to their guilt.
The bottom line is, I sincerely doubt there are many, if any at all, black people who are ever caught up in similar drama (usually they are unquestionably guilty) but if there were, I think it would still be fairly compelling, despite the currently level of SJW fervor and cuckoldry rising in society.
>>65017616
Welcome to rural America. It's a big country, and all sorts of interesting folk live in the open plains. Europe is pretty condensed, so there's less opportunity to have such celebrated people.
>>65017674
Did they get caught planting evidence? I missed that part.
All I got was some of the evidence was found under slightly suspicious circumstances. There was no proof to support that a single piece of evidence was planted. Not even a real credible motive was established. Colburn and Lenk had barely anything to do with Avery's false rape conviction. They had no reason to risk their jobs and lives to frame him.
>>65017697
Sure there are many factors and most of the family also seems stupid, but how is it possible that that kid was considered normal enough to depose in court and be taken seriously?
>>65017674
Most of the investigation was conducted by non-county police. You can believe the key was planted and absolutely 100% believe Avery killed Halbach.
>>65013779
this
>>65017759
Because he's not retarded, he just incredibly stupid. He had no diagnosed conditions. Just because you're fucking dumb doesn't mean you should be excused from normal court proceedings.
>>65016986
Kachinsky was related to Halbach? Jesus fuck, could there be any more conflicts of interest in the case? Next we'll be finding out that Brandon left dog shit in a burning bag on Kratz's doorstep and Steve fucked the judges wife.
>>65017759
Maybe he's not as dumb as you think he is? I mean you don't really know who Dassey is. Everything you know about him comes from a few video clips and what we heard from biased sources (family).
I think Brendan knows what happened for sure.
I think Avery did it
Why didn't HE take the stand?
>>65017742
>slightly suspicious circumstances
3 days of searching didn't find the victim's keys laying on the floor of Avery's bedroom in almost plain view until Lt. Lenk did the search himself. That's not slightly suspicious. That's an obvious plant.
I'm not saying for sure that he didn't kill her. He might have killed her somewhere else and left the keys in the car. I don't know and neither do you, because the police fucked up the investigation horribly. That's reasonable doubt and an easy not guilty verdict if you even halfway understand the law.
>>65017759
Intelligence is not clear cut. He is known to be borderline.
He seems to have a sense of right and wrong, but is terrible with communication.
>>65017738
Sure, I'm not European also and we have our own brand of redneck here, but they are... different. I mean, they're not the smartest kids around the block and just go through necessary education, but mostly they just have a weird sense of humor, take pride in big muscles and soccer and fucking bitches. They aren't going to jail 4 times a year.
But this was really enlightening, I remember watching a South Park episode called Poor and Stupid and I had fun thinking of our rednecks, but the situation there is a bit different and this made me understand white trash.
>>65017857
BECAUSE HE'S GUILTY! No stand, no freedom I say!
>>65010712
HA!
>>65017868
>That's an obvious plant.
You need something called proof to make that claim. Not suspicious circumstances.
>>65017877
I mean, remember that these are the really poor trashy ass shit ones. There are good people in rural areas - normal people with values and who are classy as fuck. Your average person. But there are so many rural areas that are just poor... low median family household income, etc., so you get these blighted areas that after a few generations produce these types.
>>65017922
Incredibly suspicious circumstances are proof. You don't need video evidence to prove everything that happened. You clearly don't understand the law.
Plus, the prosecutor has the burden of proof, not the defense. You're flipping the presumption of innocence on its head.
>>65017857
Because based defense lawyers knew he was a fucking moron who would have made a spectacle and dropped his spaghetti about how the cops are out to get him and most likely advised him against it.
>>65017491
it goes to the man's ethics (especially since it was directly related to his job as a prosecutor), and he also revealed that the reason he did it was because he was addicted to prescription drugs, which in turn brings into question his ability to properly perform his job
>>65018010
>Incredibly suspicious circumstances are proof.
Then Avery is beyond a reasonable doubt guilty.
You can't have it both ways. The prosecutor has the burden of proof of proving the defendant guilty. But the defendant has the equal burden of proof of saying that the evidence was planted.
>>65018045
I say the fact that he got a conviction means he's capable of performing his job.
He was a prosecutor, not an investigator. None of the evidence he used was procured by him. He just argued facts. I don't see how making him look like a piece of shit solves anything.
>>65018010
You don't understand the law, anon. The prosecution has the burden of proving the criminal defendant is guilty of the charges, but all the various motions and showings that must be made on all issues evidence or anything else... the burden is on the movant; i.e., the party who filed the motion with the court.
What are you asking for with the whole key and reasonable doubt thing? Wasn't the jury shown the key? They could have inferred a huge police conspiracy if they believed that bs, but they didn't.
>>65018052
Once you show that the cops are dirty and planted evidence, you've shown reasonable doubt. The cops did a disservice to the victim by using her murder to advance their own agenda by using illegal methods.
If you don't think that evidence was planted and that the cops didn't horribly mishandle the case, then you're a fucking idiot.
>>65015686
pls respond
>>65013779
They're actually not. Very few people of any color are wrongfully convicted. Just doing a back-of-the-envelope analysis of Innocence Project successes as well as the appellate process, it's something like 99.237% of all convictions stand.
That does however tot up to a couple thousand innocent people in prison or under other correctional control as we speak, one of whom is of course Steven Avery.
It's fucking ridiculous to drag race into this. The Central Park Five got their film, but Riley Fox's father didn't. Of the dozen or so true crime wrongful conviction films or series available on Netflix at the moment, just two concern whites (MaM and Thin Blue Line). I can't think of a single fictionalization of a wrongful conviction that didn't involve a black actor hurling Oscar bait, like Denzel Washington in Hurricane.
And just look at Table 43 of the FBI's annual UCR of any fucking year it's been produced. No matter how you slice, dissemble, or obscure it, blacks are about ten times likelier than any other demographic to commit some gruesome crime for the fucking dumbest of reasons (shoes, snack food, pocket change, ten seconds of sex). And this society not only ignores it, it actively lies about it. So maybe the occasional wrongful negro conviction is just desserts.
>>65016020
Hitting people is breaking the rules. Police are trained how to elicit confessions through coercion and psychological manipulation.
>When you say you didn't do it, we know you're lying.
>If you want us to believe you, you'd be best served telling us things, even if they make you look bad. Especially if they make you look bad.
>Now tell us what you did to her head.
>OK. But what happened to her head?
>Something happened to her head. What was it?
>OK I'm just gonna ask you, who shot her in the head?
That was the only thing that the retard confessed to that was supported by forensic evidence, and he repeatedly failed to confess after repeated cues from the detectives. He only confessed to it after they made it part of the narrative. That shouldn't have been admissible. Especially considering no lawyer, mom lied to, retard didn't understand the stakes, etc.
You don't get false confessions through torture or violence, you get them through exactly what the police did.
>>65018185
>Once you show that the cops are dirty and planted evidence
Which they DIDN'T PROVE you fucking retard. Show me one piece of damming evidence that shows they planted it.
>Lenk found the key and he has a conflict of interest in the case
That's not proof you fucking idiot. Maybe the key should have been thrown out, but that doesn't mean it was planted.
>>65018261
Two courts reviewed the interrogation and determined it was properly admitted and the interrogation techniques weren't coercive.
>>65018199
>Riley Fox's father
worth noting that Kevin Riley's wrongful-conviction attorney was Kathleen Zellner, who both had him exonerated and won an $8M lawsuit against the detectives
Zellner is now Steven Avery's attorney
she works on a deferred fee basis, taking her fee from a proportion of the settlement/ lawsuit money her clients receive
>>65013816
>the state's lead investigator gave me the plate
>better call the dispatch to make sure he got the right plate number
>and confirm the vehicle type
>because it's super possible that the state's lead investigator has the two most critical details in a missing person case wrong
It's almost like you're a fucking moron.
>>65018271
>Which they DIDN'T PROVE you fucking retard. Show me one piece of damming evidence that shows they planted it.
>That's not proof you fucking idiot. Maybe the key should have been thrown out, but that doesn't mean it was planted.
You don't understand what the fuck you're talking about. Other than like fucking footage of them doing it, you'll never PROVE they did it. Particularly not now. There is, on the other hand, a significant amount of evidence that supports the narrative that they planted evidence. And more to the point, the evidence that they "discovered" absolutely shouldn't have been presented to a jury. They shouldn't have been there. Even if the car key was there, it shouldn't have been admissible because people who were ordered not to be there due to conflicts of interest were the ones that found it.
Not to mention the blood sample. That would be a way to PROVE that the blood in the car came from the blood sample. Right now, the blatantly tampered-with blood samples in their custody is absolutely evidence of unambiguous police misconduct.
>>65018394
Well she did.
Why do you think he called the dispatcher? So he could make sure the call is recorded when he's about to perform an extremely immoral and illegal act?
>>65018394
It's possible to believe anything with enough edits dude. Just because it was a documentary doesn't mean it's true or it lacked a bias.
>>65018458
>the blatantly tampered-with blood samples
I'm officially done talking with you. Do more research on the case.
http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamudererbloodvial.html
>>65018461
>>65018465
You notice how he used a cell and not his radio? Maybe he didn't know calls to the non-emergency line were recorded.
Faggots can't explain the key being at a open area. Its all a set up.
>>65018337
They didn't determine that they "weren't coercive." That doesn't even mean anything. All interrogations are coercive, and coercive interrogative techniques aren't automatically considered unlawful or inadmissible. And the fact that two heavily prejudiced courts allowed evidence to be admitted doesn't make the evidence any less shitty. The pederast DA had already made poisoned the well by publicly announcing as fact the details of his confession.
>>65018358
I'm dying to know what she knows. She's the most succesful wrongful conviction attorney in history. She has to know there's new evidence somewhere, otherwise Avery is fucked.
>>65018555
Again. You keep saying how he should have called the investigator. If he made the same call to the investigator, how is it any less suspicious? How is calling the dispatcher specifically suspicious at all?
What does that fucking add at all? I'm sick of you fucking pieces of shit. You're all fucking retards that can't use any sort of higher level thinking.
>>65018199
>Implying a vast majority of people don't just take plea deals.
just want to make sure that everyone knows that the most successful wrongful-conviction attorney ever has agreed to take on Avery's case
>>65018503
That article has been debunked numerous times. The facts about blood testing are outright false. The court documents don't even mention this nurse ever coming forward to testify. Some of the people mentioned and quoted in it don't even fucking exist.
I worked with blood testing for a multi-year project on comparing asthma patients with the regular populace. The stardard protocol is to replace the purple stopper BEFORE filing it away. You never leave punctured samples EVER.
>>65018613
No, dumb fuck. I didn't say he should've called the investigator. I said it is absolutely incredulous that he thought hours or days after receiving the info from Wiegert that Wiegert, a state DoJ agent, might have the two most crucial details in a missing person investigation wrong. So following your tard thought train, he thinks Wiegert somehow fucked up the plate and vehicle ID, as absolutely impossible as that is. So he doesn't radio dispatch, he calls from a cell phone to a non-emergency administrative line with a clerk who has DMV access instead of calling any of dozens of other cops involved in the investigation. Moreover, he doesn't call and ask what Halbach's license plate or vehicle type is, he asks a plate to be run, then posits the make and model of the vehicle himself.
There is nothing about your position that stands up to any type of logic.
>>65018732
are u trying to imply that in the history of US law there has ever been a lawyer better than Avery's original trial attorneys?
Can we all agree that Buting and Strang were based as fuck?
>>65018785
Strang's bit about presumption of innocence was great.
>>65018503
>onmilwaukee.com
>/movies
nice source m8
also, see >>65018771
>>65018785
they are
not as based as pic related though
>>65018979
That """"""journalist"""""" was also responsible for an article claiming that Avery owning pornography was "troubling evidence" left out by the documentary.
>>65019084
a single man owning pornography is sketchy as fuck though
>>65019138
True, but Avery wasn't single.
>>65011691
Maybe in America and the UK.
South America and Mexico hate blacks.
What pissed me off were Avery's defense team. why did they abandon him after the trial and now Avery has to make a case all by himself with no legal knowledge? Fucking assholes
>>65019197
>if you're good at something, never do it for free
>>65019084
whats wrong with porn?
>>65013375
It's hard to say.
The cops do a LOT of incredibly shady shit and the prosecution has way too many holes in it and its filled with coincidences that are too insane for there not to be some conspiracy going on. Not even mentioning how they mentally abused a literal retard to confess to something he didn't do.
But on the other handSteven doesn't testify, and some of the aspects of the situation and some of the evidence are hard to ignore.
The doc is definitely in support of Steven, but the title can go both ways
Making a murderer through falsehood or making a murderer cause 18 years in jail for a crime he didn't' commit made him crazy.
>>65019270
No clue. See: http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/evidenceagainstavery.html
>>65019283
>Steven doesn't testify
That shouldn't be evidence of anything. You should never testify at your own trial.
