I've got some questions.
>Does this show's obvious bias make it shit?
>Is Steven Avery actually a piece of shit
>did he even do it regardless?
also Brendan Dassey is an innocent retard.
>>64888213
No, because if it was unbiased it would be less interesting and shit. No one gives a fuck about PC both sides of the coin in mainstream documentaries.
I also think there isn't enough evidence to convict him beyond reasonable doubt and it all lines up too neatly for me.
I think the show's bias doesn't negate the shady fucking shit the cops were doing.
Also the DA and Len were obvious villains. Like, even though it was a documentary, they were CLEARLY the bad guys. There was no need to spin their characters at all. It was written all over their faces every time talked.
Can I watch this on Netflix?
>>64888213
>will Brendan Dassey be home in time to watch WrestleMania?
I enjoyed the ride, even though it was so beyond biased it's not even funny.
http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamudererbloodvial.html
The blood vial is even pretty much irrelevant. Steven Avery is guilty as fuck. This documentary would have sucked ass if it was unbiased, because no one would give a shit about a murderer who's in jail for murdering a woman.
This show really highlights, among other things, the need for basic objective decision making and judgement training as part of an elementary school curriculum. If we expect each and every citizen to make an able juror, there should be some instruction on basic evidence judging techniques, emotional removal from situations and the importance and meaning of reasonable doubt instilled in each and every citizen at a young age.
This entire case, whether you believe Steven Avery is guilty or not, is circumstantial and contains NO piece of evidence that itself is beyond a reasonable doubt a piece of credible evidence.
>>64888831
>"W..w.we were gonna have this defence I swear! Nah she's dead now but yeah that's evidence!"
Keep moving cop
>>64888853
>Guys I watched a biased documentary that only pointed out defensible evidence, and ignored all indefensible evidence.
>All 12 jurors made the wrong decision. I know this because I watched a 10 hour documentary and know way more about the case than the jurors who sat in a courtroom for 6 weeks hearing both sides of the story, and deliberated for over 20 hours over all of the evidence
>>64888927
You will defend anything no matter how wrong you are.
>>64888648
Is that you, Brendan?
>>64889014
He didn't say they made the wrong decision you ignoramus twat.
Would you want anyone from the Avery family, hell anyone from that shithole town on your murder trial jury?
>>64889014
>All "unshown damning evidence!!" is just as circumstantial and easily rebutted as included "damning" evidence
>Just as much exonerating evidence not shown in the documentary
>Reports of improper juror proceedings including threats from multiple jurors, currently being investigated
>Consitutional violations and extremely improper and suspicious investigating practices permeate every single piece of "damning" evidence
>Steven Avery is a forensic genius and cleaned every single bit of DNA on the property after brutally and violently raping and murdering her guys!
I found the contrarian dumbshit, try think for yourself and make your own judgements sometimes you retard.
>>64888853
>This entire case...is circumstantial
>NO piece of evidence that itself is beyond a reasonable doubt a piece of credible evidence.
THESE STATEMENTS ARE STUPID AND YOU ARE STUPID
>>64889148
Yeah. Guilty or not, everyone from that town is fucking retarded.
>>64889148
>He didn't say they made the wrong decision you ignoramus twat.
>Whether you believe Steven Avery is guilty or not, is circumstantial and contains NO piece of evidence that itself is beyond a reasonable doubt a piece of credible evidence.
Maybe you have bad reading comprehension, but saying that there's significant reasonable doubt in this case implies the jury made the wrong decision.
>>64889221
Not knowing what they're doing != making the wrong decision
>>64889148
>He didn't say they made the wrong decision you ignoramus twat.
How's that autism working for you?
>>64889207
>"We KNOW Teresa Hallbach was in his trailer, we have an Auto Trader magazine and Bill of sale to prove that"
>>64889205
Name some exonerating evidence in this case that wasn't shown in the documentary.
For every piece you come up with, I can name infinity, because they threw the entire kitchen sink into this documentary making Avery look innocent. Nothing was left out that makes Avery look good, and a shit ton was left out that makes him look like the despicable human being is.
>try think for yourself and make your own judgements sometimes you retard.
Oh okay, I'll just blindly listen to the documentary then. Good advice.
>>64889253
What?
You're saying they made an uninformed decision, resulting in the wrong verdict. That's literally what you're saying.
>A child says 2 + 2 = 5, oh that's okay he doesn't know math. That means the answer isn't wrong.
Fuck off.
>>64889221
>>64889292
If you honestly think the prosecution made their case beyond a reasonable doubt even after reading all extra court documents and evidence available outside the documentary you are sincerely retarded and clearly have no formal legal training.
>>64888213
Yes to all three. It's an incredibly biased documentary. I use it as a litmus test to determine whether or not someone is gullible.
>>64889253
>watching the series showed me how flawed our jury system is
>all the evidence was circumstantial
>no one piece of evidence meets the burden of proof
>I wasn't saying I disagreed with the verdict
>>64888526
No one seems to realize this. If it was pure, objective reporting it would be incredibly boring to watch.
>>64889357
You're wrong, accept it.
>T..THEY INCLUDED EVERYTHING GUIZE
http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634
>>64888213
>Does this show's obvious bias make it shit?
No, but it calls into question its creditibility, and undermines its own intentions.
>is avery a piece of shit
Rapist, murderer, child molester, cat killer. Gee, I don't know.
>did he even do it regardless?
Yes.
>also Brendan Dassey is an innocent retard.
Half right. I feel bad for Brendan but he was involved.
>>64888526
>PC
As if being fair and critical is politically correct.
>>64888853
>This show really highlights, among other things, the need for basic objective decision making and judgement training as part of an elementary school curriculum. If we expect each and every citizen to make an able juror, there should be some instruction on basic evidence judging techniques, emotional removal from situations and the importance and meaning of reasonable doubt instilled in each and every citizen at a young age.
And it undermines all of that by being grossly biased.
>This entire case, whether you believe Steven Avery is guilty or not, is circumstantial and contains NO piece of evidence that itself is beyond a reasonable doubt a piece of credible evidence.
Only if you believe the conspiracy or take it seriously. Without any concrete evidence, I don't. To me, Avery did it, without a reasonable doubt.
>>64889440
If you honestly believe that Steven Avery didn't murder that woman, then you're an ACLJew or a dindu who thinks you need a video of someone committing a murder to be found guilty.
>>64888213
Reminder that like Serial, whether Steven is guilty or not is not the point of the documentary. Keep this in mind as the thread proceeds.
>>64888853
are you the idiot that keeps scaremongering about jury trials on /his/? the jury trial in a criminal case is a right of the defendant and nearly always works to the defendant's benefit.
>>64889357
oh yeah, you know, cause mentioning that he rammed a woman off the road and pointed an unloaded shotgun at her face makes him look like a saint.
Mentioning that he robbed a few stores and THREW A FUCKING CAT INTO THE FIRE made him look like a good candidate for pope.
the fact that people didn't give a shit about him throwing a cat into a fire is beyond me.
>>64889493
>To me, Avery did it without a reasonable doubt.
Saying there's reasonable doubt =/= accusing the state of conspiracy, no matter how much the prosecution wants you to believe that.
As I said, there wasn't a single piece of evidence that stood up to the burden of reasonable doubt - did it really not trouble you that the defence was able to find something suspicious, procedurally wrong, malicious or all three about EVERY piece of evidence the prosecution introduced? There was not one exhibit, contained in the documentary or not, where the defence was unable to point out lies or inconsistencies - that is NOT good enough for a court of law and in the judgement of a mans life.
Whether you think he did it or not, Avery is still entitled to presumption of innocence, a fair trial, and to be convicted beyond the scope of reasonable doubt - all rights that he did not receive.
>>64889440
Reasonable doubt has to be reasonable. Just because you can construct this narrative that the police framed Avery doesn't mean it's true.
The bones in his yard were burned with the same steel found on the tires in Avery's lot. The bullet that killed Teresa Halbach was shot out of Avery's illegal gun. Avery's nonblood DNA was found in the hood of the RAV4. Avery called Teresa three times the day of her disappearance, including from a *67 number.
Who gives a shit about the key. Who gives a shit about the blood in the car. Look at everything else surrounding this case. Look at Brendan's testimiony (The parts that weren't forced.) Look at Avery's cellmates testimony that Avery wanted to seek revenge on all women for being put in jail for the false rape. Look at all of his letters to his ex wife. Look at the interviews from his ex girlfriend, even she's saying he did it.
Again, there might be unreasonable doubt. Maybe aliens came in and abducted her then buried the bones in his firepit. That doesn't mean he should be exonerated.
>>64889550
Again, I'll add that, due to the documentary's bias, it has made Avery's guilt or innocence the center of the debate. It's the fault of the filmmakers.
>>64888213
I have just one question. How does someone not own a pair of underwear?
>>64889531
see, now I know you are trolling, because convictions require PROOF BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.
plenty of doubt in the case friendo
>>64889714
I don't know if we watched the same documentary, because from what I've seen it's all about how the Manitowoc County's department is full of pieces of shit.
It's almost like being a creepy weirdo with a history of violence and sexual abuse will be off-putting to a jury
>>64889714
I disagree. I don't think the show is biased toward his innocence. Innocent would be the wrong word to use at any rate. It's more about questioning whether or not there's enough reasonable doubt and mishandling of the case to warrant further investigation.
>>64889739
ball room is important to some, and underwear take that away somewhat.
Steve Avery likes to let his nuts hang
>>64889767
I'm not talking about a court of law. There are people who really believe that he did absolutely nothing. Of course there was reasonable doubt.
>>64889710
All of those "damning" points you mentioned can and have been rebutted with equally valid points from the defence, and could almost be argued towards the conspiracy narrative, especially the "non blood DNA" which was admitted was only enough to have come from a toothbrush, or from someone touching the blood DNA inside the car without gloves then opening the hood.. oh which is exactly what an investigator has literally admitted to!
Not saying this cunts innocent, just more playing devils advocate. To me the amount of reasonable doubt that some evidence was planted and Steven Avery was improperly investigated and targeted is much less than the reasonable doubt he's a mastermind criminal and forensic cleaning prodigy genius. But maybe that's just because I'm smarter than you.
>>64889890
i don't think he killed her.
but thats not to say that i don't think he's a good person either.
>>64889709
>Saying there's reasonable doubt =/= accusing the state of conspiracy, no matter how much the prosecution wants you to believe that.
I know, but since I don't believe there was any conspiracy, I take the evidence provided by the prosecution at face value. And the evidence overwhelmingly points to Avery. So no reasonable doubt.
>As I said, there wasn't a single piece of evidence that stood up to the burden of reasonable doubt
Reasonable doubt is for people.
>did it really not trouble you that the defence was able to find something suspicious, procedurally wrong, malicious or all three about EVERY piece of evidence the prosecution introduced?
Yes and no. No doubt, there was a lot of shitty work done on part of the state.
>There was not one exhibit, contained in the documentary or not, where the defence was unable to point out lies or inconsistencies - that is NOT good enough for a court of law and in the judgement of a mans life.
Right. Doesn't mean he can't still be guilty without reasonable doubt.
>Whether you think he did it or not, Avery is still entitled to presumption of innocence, a fair trial, and to be convicted beyond the scope of reasonable doubt - all rights that he did not receive.
To a degree. He deserves a retrial but is also guilty. Not sure I'm too enthusiastic about fighting for a murderer rapist dirtbag.
all i can say about this whole fucking thing is that i want to play Pheonix fucking Wright again.
>>64890023
>To a degree. He deserves a retrial but is also guilty. Not sure I'm too enthusiastic about fighting for a murderer rapist dirtbag.
*murderer dirtbag
**murderer(?) dirtbag
>>64889911
Saying all of the evidence is planted is not reasonable doubt.
I don't even see a real motive
>Muh lawsuit
Colburn had literally nothing to lose against Avery, and everything to lose including his freedom by framing him.
>>64890163
he didn't.
but the people he worked for (the state) did.
>>64889822
Yeah? And you're saying it's not biased?
>>64889834
It downplays his violent past and presents his family in a very uncritical light, playing on heartstrings about his poverty and disadvantages in life.
Many people come away from the documentary thinking he's innocent. That's not a coincidence.
>>64890206
>Colburn, you're fired unless you do something extremely immoral and illegal
Now you're talking about a massive conspiracy, which again is completely unreasonable.
>>64890256
Its not really a conspiracy, its the state covering their own ass.
>>64890256
is it?
$36 million that could be used in Aaron Rodgers next contract unreasonable?
>>64890163
You're right, saying the evidence is planted is not reasonable doubt. Successfully undermining the credibility of evidence by proving inconsistencies, breach-of-protocol and malicious behaviour involving each piece of evidence IS reasonable doubt. Show me a piece of evidence that is non-circumstantial, was handled and or tested with a valid and fair procedural method, made available to the defence fairly and in accordance with precedent and absolutely points to Steven Avery beyond a reasonable doubt. None exists. and that's why this is scary no mater what your personal opinion on Steven Avery or the documentary is.
>>64888213
Yes
Yes
Very likely
>>64890241
I don't think those are the parts that make people have some doubt, anon.
Prize here.
Ask me anything.
>>64890390
Cut or uncut?
>>64890317
Avery's blood in the RAV4
>B-b-b-but the blood vial
http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamudererbloodvial.html
>>64890317
But some sloppy police work doesn't destroy the creditibility of the evidence or prove there was tampering.
People need to realise that there doesn't have to be some massive State conspiracy with diabolical and intricate schemes working against Steven Avery. What the defence is arguing is that in combination with a successful killer who new where in the county to dump the body (as anyone with two braincells would), certain opportunities arose for the Manitowoc investigators to exercise their belief that Avery is guilty and simply add or augment evidence to see justice done. I think it's a very important distinction between conspiracy and abuse of power based on personal prejudices, which may even have been somewhat subconscious a lot of the time.
>>64890313
I think you need to look up what Conspiracy means.
>>64890428
Both. I had a zipper installed to take it off and on, similar to pulling your hood up when you get cold.
>ep 8
>think "Ken Kratz seems like the dentist that fondles you while you're out on knockout gas
>mfw episode 10
>>64890432
>We swear this dead chick said this!
Yeah nah, just destroyed the credibility with one sarcastic statement. Try again retard.
>>64890501
BASED PRIZE
The main thing for me that makes me it hard to believe is the fact that none of Teresa's DNA or blood was found anywhere near Avery's trailer, garage and everything else. I doubt a man with such a low IQ would be capable of cleaning every bit of DNA. I have no idea if he did it or not but I don't believe he did it the way that was suggested. That being said I haven't really looked further than the documentary yet so maybe theres an explanation for that thats not in the documentary.
>>64890460
The most puzzling part to me is the lack of a murder site. I do think Steven is the most likely killer but I can't figure out where and how he murdered Teresa within the given timeframe.
>>64890530
Are you 12? How come Strang and Buting aren't refuting this?
>Guys I don't trust any evidence no matter how much corroboration it has
I'm glad you weren't on the jury, because you could have been a personal witness of Avery murdering Teresa, and said there's reasonable doubt.
>>64890470
I know that. I understand their argument. Problem is, they didn't prove anything beyond some sloppy police work. They need to provide something more than suspicions.
>>64890470
The defense came no where close of proving, or even highly suggesting a framing.
The motive they gave was so fucking weak, and their only evidence is the circumstances seemed sort of fishy kinda.
>>64890390
Why aren't you in jail yet?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KLJnEdTZhN
>>64890597
Also the blood in the RAV4 appears to show that the body was transported from somewhere.
>>64890671
Prizes are for winners. Winners don't go to jail.
>>64890692
Yeah, Steven raped her in a field somewhere and put her in the back of his car, then burned her in the bonfire.
>>64890597
Agreed. It's a big piece of the puzzle that's missing, and is much more unnerving than any of the suspicions raised by the defense.
>>64890734
Okay but then Brendan comes into play.
Why do people keep focusing on whether Steven is innocent or guilty? That isn't the point of the series.
also, for every piece of prosecution evidence left out there is a counter piece of defence evidence left out - it's a television series covering events over 30 years, and just like every documentary ever made it's not going to be able to include absolutely everything
>>64890809
His testimony wasn't even used in the trial, and the jury acquitted him of any sort of sexual assault or bodily mutilation.
Yes
Yes
Yes
Dassey's innocence is debatable, what isn't is that he and everyone else from that gene pool are absolute scum and need to be removed from the world of the living immediately.
>>64890809
Brendan's confession is bizarre. It's somewhere between reality and bullshit, but he probably helped clean up the crime scene, wherever it was, and watch the bombfire.
>>64890852
Understood, but I'm not buying the "I made it all up for no apparent reason because it was in a book I read" part. His confession really is the wildcard here.
Steve is going to get out of jail, go back to the Avery metal farm, have a mental breakdown, and end up becoming one of the most prolific serial killers in American history.
>>64890912
Oh.
I think Dassey is innocent of murder and rape. I think he just helped Steven dispose of the evidence. I think she had chains and ropes around her at the time while they were burying the body.
He obviously had a lot to lose and knew that much. He thought if he told the police what they wanted to hear, he'd be okay.
>>64890967
I legitimately hope this happens so that we can get another series of Making a Murderer
>>64890967
He's going to murder another woman, not make the same mistakes and get away with it.
>>64889714
>>64891024
there is no bias though
read my post again
if you;re claiming it's biased towards Avery, why did they leave out a significant amount of pro-Avery evidence?
>>64890912
This goes some way towards explaining how much of an effect hours of intense interviewing and an authority figure telling you what you did can have on a normal person
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/01/science-behind-brendan-dasseys-confession.html
On top of that are Brendan's learning disabilities and obvious incomprehension of the situation. I honestly believe he made it up after having worked in a special education environment for so long with similar children and experiencing them under scrutiny and when in trouble. I actually chuckled as he almost immediately recalled the name of the novel to the obviously surprised prosecution, classic autismo.
>>64891075
Because
A. The points they brought up were already demonstrated. The deer blood, for example, is already brought up when they said they found Avery's blood. It's redundant.
B. The points they brought up would have required talking about the prosecutions argument, like they'd have to explain why the DNA under the hood was important to the case.
>Steven Avery’s ex-fiancee says “he’s a monster,” and she believes he killed Teresa Halbach
>“It was all an act. I — he told me how to act. You know, smile, be happy. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to get hurt. Steven is one person I don’t trust. He’s like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde,” Stachowski said. “A nice person, semi-nice person and then behind closed doors…he’s a monster. He told me once — excuse my language — ‘all (expletive for females) owe him’ because of the one that sent him to prison the first time. We all owed him — and he could do whatever he wanted.”
http://fox6now.com/2016/01/14/steven-averys-ex-fiancee-says-hes-a-monster-and-she-believes-he-killed-teresa-halbach/
please post an example of a narrative documentary that is not 'biased'
>>64891169
DELETE THIS
STEVEN AVERY IS INNOCENT
>>64891169
>"I hated him and wanted to get away from that monster!"
>spends the next few years while he's incarcerated visiting him and vocally supporting him
Gotta get them sweet netflix bucks somehow, what a lying bitch
>>64891075
>there is no bias though
Um, really? The movie that plays sad folksy music when it's showing Avery's parents and plays DJ Spooky during the conspiracy theory non-sense, isn't biased?
>read my post again
Okay. You're saying what a bunch of people already have. I get it.
>if you;re claiming it's biased towards Avery, why did they leave out a significant amount of pro-Avery evidence?
Doesn't change the fact.
>>64891173
That's why you need to fact check these things.
Unfortunately reddit doesn't want to believe that a homicidal maniac is what he is, no matter how much proof they see.
>>64891223
>Gotta get them sweet netflix bucks somehow
she'd have earned more for being in the Ridiculous Six
>>64891141
>A. one example proves the entirety
please
this point is entirely false
>B.
the pre-prosecution points were all counter-pointed by items left out of the documentary, so by your logic, those points are 'redundant'
>>64891223
Where does it say that she hates him?
>>64891282
this
Prize needs to leave, no one likes your fat eunuch ass
>>64891173
It's all a matter of degree. Those that strive for objectivity are more credible and more challenging works.
>>64891226
>sad folksy music
>DJ Spooky
>conspiracy theory non-sense
sounds like you're biased yourself
>Doesn't change the fact.
what fact?
>>64891226
They spend like half the time just showing Avery's parents being sad.
The only part they show of Teresa's family is the brother who is mad and angry at innocent Steven >:v( What a bad guy
>theres people out there who TRULY believe avery was set up
>>64891336
and where do you think Making a Murderer sits on this range of degrees, and why?
>>64891336
I completely agree, that's why MaM is one of the most important and significant documentaries made this century, and I've already successfully encouraged almost all my family and friends to experience it and the plight of the Avery family against shocking and impossible odds.
>>64891344
I'm convinced they're all dindu nuffin libtards from reddit.
>>64891338
>sounds like you're biased yourself
Doesn't change the fact.
>what fact?
The documentary is extremely biased.
>>64891169
Isn't she a drunk?
>>64891394
It's funny. My sister recommended this to me, and every single person I've talked to about this case is convinced that Avery is guilty.
>Fucking contrarians man you just want to be different!
You're becoming the contrarians. The more light this case gets, the more people think he's guilty because they're not attached to some biased documentary.
>>64891339
>They spend like half the time just showing Avery's parents being sad.
they had access to his parents, and it is a documentary about Steven Avery, who lives in close proximity to his family (who are all in close proximity to to the alleged crime scenes and alleged murderer) being charged with and tried for a crime - of course they're going to show his family
>The only part they show of Teresa's family is the brother who is mad and angry at innocent Steven
what is wrong with showing parents being sad their son has been charged with murder?
what do Teresa's family have to do with the investigation and trial other than being related to her?
what is wrong with showing Teresa's brother being mad and angry that his sister died?
>>64891464
>every single person I've talked to about this case is convinced that Avery is guilty
so they missed the point of the series as well?
>>64891410
>literally every significant and relevant scholar, intellectual, scientist, novelist, professor, clergyman, teacher, popular artist and philanthropist are "liberal"
>this is still some sort of insult in the twisted, delusional minds of disenfranchised and angry retards
I honestly just feel bad for you at this point, being confined to a Morrocan tapestry-weaving forum to spout your nonsense.
>he still hasn't realized it was the brother and ex
You sheep
>>64891419
>The documentary is extremely biased.
how so?
>>64891486
>what is wrong with showing parents being sad their son has been charged with murder?
Because you're adding an emotional connection with Avery and his family. If this was about facts of the case, then they could have cut half of the documentary out as showing his parents adds nothing but compassion to Avery.
>what do Teresa's family have to do with the investigation and trial other than being related to her?
What does Avery's parents have to do with the investigation?
>what is wrong with showing Teresa's brother being mad and angry that his sister died?
Because when you juxtapose that with Avery's crying mom and dad, you get a protagonist and a villain. When you show pictures of Avery as a kid, and nothing but pictures of him either smiling or looking concerned, you create a positive light. It's not neutral at all.
>>64891370
It's much more sophisticated than your average agitprop documentary, and there is plenty of worthwhile material within the series, but it must be watched with an extremely critical eye. If you want a better example of what MaM does, I'd point to the Thin Blue Line. That too is biased but not to any degree that its credibility comes into question.
>>64891394
Trollin?
Friendly reminder that the jury contained the father of a Manitowoc County Deputy and a Manitowoc Clerk, and there are reports from at least three jurors of coercion and threats of physical violence against person and family if a guilty verdict wasn't reached.
>>64891515
Or they saw past the point of series.
>>64891519
>>>literally every significant and relevant scholar, intellectual, scientist, novelist, professor, clergyman, teacher, popular artist and philanthropist are "liberal"
What? That's completely wrong on so many levels. But just keep believing that.
Also, libtard is different than liberal. I consider liberals to be people who study both sides of things and come to a conclusion, which may be different than mine. Libtards are people who have no critical thinking skills and just listen to what the media tells them.
>>64891582
Friendly source for this?
>>64891639
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-discusses-his-suspicions-about-the-jury-20160114
Daily reminder that Steven Avery was on a business trip in Hawaii in the crime window of the murder, the jury consisted of 12 Manitowoc police officers, and the real murderer admitted on the stand that he did it, yet Steven was still convicted.
>>64891582
>Friendly reminder that the jury contained the father of a Manitowoc County Deputy and a Manitowoc Clerk
Friendly reminder that that isn't illegal or anything.
>and there are reports from at least three jurors of coercion and threats of physical violence against person and family if a guilty verdict wasn't reached.
Relayed by the filmmakers. I'm sure it must be accurate.
>>64891710
>the jury consisted of 12 Manitowoc police officers
Laughed hard at this.
>>64891710
>Better make shit up because my small mind can't handle the magnitude of the implications of proof of police corruption and conspiracy!
>>64891744
>Relayed to the filmmakers by a juror*
ftfy
>I don't trust this person! But I sure as hell trust the proven liars in the prosecution's case!
kek
>>64891697
Not too convincing.
>>64891831
>can't take a joke
>>64891831
>proof of police corruption and conspiracy!
Let's see it. All I saw was "Oh this looks fishy"
>Steven Avery can't be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt because there was a police conspiracy to frame him for murder
>Can't prove the police are guilty of framing someone for murder beyond a reasonable doubt
Checkmate, atheists.
>>64891744
Most people I've seen posting here think the jury was from Manitowoc. The trial was in Calumet county and the jury was also. Brendans trial was held in Manitowoc.
>>64891971
The jury was SAID TO be from Calumet, just as the investigation was SAID TO be covered by Calumet, despite massive Manitowoc active involvement including several occasions of volunteering to conduct searches and evidence gathering.
>>64891577
are you saying that MaM's credibility comes into question? if so, please explain why
>>64891571
>Because you're adding an emotional connection with Avery and his family
this is a documentary series - not a news report
>What does Avery's parents have to do with the investigation?
>nothing but compassion to Avery.
for you maybe, I saw it as another part of the story
see>>64891486
>lives in close proximity to his family (who are all in close proximity to to the alleged crime scenes and alleged murderer)
members of his family are even witnesses
his family are an important component
>Because when you juxtapose that with Avery's crying mom and dad, you get a protagonist and a villain
you're putting your own interpretation of things on to this
it's simply two different parts of the story
if my sister was murdered I would be angry and mad
if my son was charged with murder I would be sad
these are not things that create "villains" and "protagonists"
>It's not neutral at all.
pro-tip: there is no such thing as a "neutral" documentary
>>64891613
what was the point of the series?
>>64891410
Great argument brah
>>64891697
Problem here is that I'm seeing the usual lawyer tricks being used here by how he quotes the juror: "fears for their public safety." There's no context there. Could mean something entirely different from what's being suggested.
requesting the anon's version of ken kratz vocaroo
>i had a good laugh and would like to share with others
>>64888213
No, as it isn't really that biased. It was more about how the justice system itself is broken, and not that Avery was innocent.
>>64891971
you do realise the jurors in question were related to people from Manitowoc, one of which was the father of a Manitowoc cop right?
that doesn't mean they're FROM Manitowoc
this series has fucked with me
i just finished watching it and loved it but had to find out exactly how biased it was
so i went and started googling around and people kept referring to missing evidence
but theres no god damn missing evidence
i keep amazing myself by finding out that any possibility avery did it has been addressed by based strang and its just impossible for me to accept he did it now
>>64889710
>The bullet that killed Teresa Halbach was shot out of Avery's illegal gun.
pls dont trigger me with such stupid assertions, familia. there is absolutely no way to prove something like that based on the impacted bullet. all they can determine is the caliber of the bullet, which was .22LR which just happens to be one of the most popular calibers in the US. they'd need to have found casings for any sort of credible ballistic fingerprinting.
>>64891571
>What does Avery's parents have to do with the investigation?
nigga he just said in the post you quoted it was about steve avery
>>64892175
>PLEASE
I need a link
>>64892233
>based strang
Hello reddit.
>>64892308
>I hate these guys that are smarter, more successful and better spoken than me! How dare they fight for justice against a corrupt system! How dare people support them for that!
>>64889710
>The bullet that killed Teresa Halbach was shot out of Avery's illegal gun
Incorrect. The bullet was fired out of a gun similar to Avery's.
>Avery's nonblood DNA was found in the hood of the RAV4.
It's been confirmed that that DNA could have been planted just as easily as the blood. Additionally, multiple officers admitted to not changing gloves when handling evidence.
>Who gives a shit about the key.
Me. It's worth noting that the key they found wasn't even the key TH used.
>Look at Brendan's testimiony (The parts that weren't forced.)
All parts were coerced in some way.
>Look at Avery's cellmates testimony that Avery wanted to seek revenge on all women for being put in jail for the false rape
Never confirmed or used for a reason.
>Look at the interviews from his ex girlfriend, even she's saying he did it.
She also provided pieces of evidence that imply Avery didn't do it. The fact she's his ex now and the fact that she can earn money off of this doesn't tip you off?
>>64892308
don't try to set up the narrative that you gotta be reddit to love yourself some based strang and the other guy i shamefully forgot the name of
people were going loco for them here too
Even if you included everything that people are saying was left out there is still enough reasonable doubt to acquit him or, at the very least, get a retrial.
>>64889078
kek
>>64892363
>I think a bunch of lawyers making a killing for playing a righteous indignation angle against the justice system are cool and based
>>64892375
>Me. It's worth noting that the key they found wasn't even the key TH used.
And?
>>64892375
Fucking finally another sound minded, objective view in this thread. I don't give two shits if Avery did it or not, the fact that there is no evidence presented by the prosecution that wasn't met with an equally valid and sometimes for reasonable explanation or description by the defence. In the words of the great Strang, the prosecution has to swim upstream. They have to overcome all points the defence makes and PROVE beyond ANY REASONABLE DOUBT that Avery is guilty, something that just wasnt done. The cases are too equally plausible and equally bullshit to unequivocally say the prosecution beat the defence, it's as simple as that.
>>64892517
The only key that Steven Avery had access too was a spare key that you could have only of found within the Halbach household.
This doesn't seem off to you? It doesn't seem strange that the keys that Halbach would actually have on her person hasn't shown up in Avery's house?
>>64892545
Really, Reddit is that way.
>>64892458
>I'm literally jealous I'm not smart or dedicated enough to become a successful lawyer, and am now projecting this on an anonymous image board
Jesus, you poor stupid kid.
>>64892559
not who you're replying to but I never actually thought about that
I guess it's possible that he removed the other keys and dumped them
but it is strange that it was just a car key and no other house keys
>>64892581
Haha you got nothing
>>64892559
>The only key that Steven Avery had access too was a spare key that you could have only of found within the Halbach household.
Or maybe the key was in her jeep.
>>64892375
>It's worth noting that the key they found wasn't even the key TH used.
can you source this?
>>64892630
It's been widely speculated that the key was a spare, since it had no fingerprints or dna from Halbach on it. This is the first time I've heard someone claim it must have been taken from her home. Conspiritards are really the worst.
The documentary is pretty biased
They left out the part where Steven Avery would request that Teresa be the one to come to the house to take pictures, and how she would request that she wouldn't want to go to Steven Avery's because he would answer the door in nothing but a towel.
What really got to me was Steven's face after he was found guilty a second time. It wasn't the disappointment of a killer trying to pass for innocent, like "Oh no, they got me!" or anger or anything else. It was just... He already knew.
He just sits there with the same defeated expression on his face. Tears almost come out of his eyes, but then they go back in, and he looks like he just soaks it in that he lost his life a second time. It all happened again.
It was such a powerful moment.
>>64892581
this >b2reddit shit really needs to stop being a thing
>>64892826
It'll stop after you go back.
>>64892765
They left out that part because it wasn't proper evidence.
Avery requested Teresa to come to the house and take pictures because people like to work with people they've worked with before. The claim that she requested to not go to Avery's house is completely unfounded with no one to testify that it happened. the co-worker that reported Teresa didn't want to go to Avery's house because he answered the door in the towel explained how they all laughed about it, with no real implications that it scared Teresa especially.
![c4057c90-9866-0133-f210-0e8e20b91aa1[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/GU4na1s.png "c4057c90-9866-0133-f210-0e8e20b91aa1[1].png")
>dude deleting voicemails lmao
>>64892814
anthropomorphism
>>64892765
>left out the part where Steven Avery would request that Teresa be the one to come to the house to take pictures
she'd been there dozens of times before to take photos of cars he was selling, maybe he requested here because the ads were successful
>she would request that she wouldn't want to go to Steven Avery's because he would answer the door in nothing but a towel.
he did that ONCE out of dozens of visits
he also owned no underwear and lived in a trailer, it seems like something a person like that would do pretty often
>>64892814
Oh are we physiognomists now?
I've not seen much talk about Deputy Coulburn and how he was quite obviously looking at Teresa's car when he called in it's plates, two days before it was officially found by search parties. I wish the defence had highlighted this more.
>>64892729
did it have fingerprints from Avery? i know for sure that his dna was found, but >manitowoc excellence in police force could be to blame for that as well
>>64892982
So could aliums though, or OJ Simpson, or George Washington raised from the dead.
>>64892898
>>64892939
Eh, he still burned a cat alive. That's fucking weird.
>>64892898
>They left out that part because it wasn't proper evidence
A lot of the documentary wasn't proper evidence.
You guys will bend over backwards to defend this shit. Classic conspiracy theorist nuttery.
>>64892973
Yeah, it was only a major part of the documentary, and a prime argument for the Avery Defense Force.
>>64892891
i can't go back to somewhere ive never been to faggot
>>64893010
IT WAS A PRANK, BRO
>>64893064
Kek, I just wish that there was some omniscient God I could ask, "Who killed Teresa?"
I wouldn't be surprised one way or another if it turns out he did do it.
>>64892375
>Me. It's worth noting that the key they found wasn't even the key TH used.
What's that mean? A spare?
>>64893010
And he raped two women. Kinda strange. Getting a weird feeling about this guy...
>>64892982
Doesn't matter what evidence was there. You'd blame everything on the Manitowoc police.
>>64893011
I know! The amount of backflipping and illogical cognitive leaps these people have to make to say Manitowoc County properly investigated and convicted the right person is fucking insane.
>>64893011
no, I mean, "not proper evidence", as in a lot of it was dismissed from the trial. ESPECIALLY the part where they claimed Teresa Halbach asked to never go back to Avery's again.
So which one of you idiots posed as the "hacker group anonymous" and claimed they were going after Colburns phone records and blowing the lid off this police corruption? I still lol about that.
>>64892921
him and Mike made for a great team
>completing each other's sentences
>same awkward feet and head movements when asked specific questions
>Nancy Drew-ing together to crack the case
>both loved Teresa so much they wanted to help the investigation
>both left out of or glossed over in Teresa's super-cute "if I die" video because Teresa wanted to make sure no-one would ever suspect them of having anything to do with her death because they're both the most stand up guys she knows
they're a cute couple
>>64893001
you can't tell me that her not having dna or fingerprints on her own key doesn't sound fishy.
i miss the old 4chan. they would have solved this shit by now.
>>64893130
>And he raped two women. Kinda strange.
source?
>>64893155
Nobody is saying that though. Almost everyone acknowledges that the case and trial was a shitshow. But that doesn't mean the documentary isn't biased. And that doesn't mean that Avery isn't guilty as hell.
>>64893130
>literally completely EXONERATED from rape case by definitive DNA evidence
>Manitowoc County and the Judge both clearly ignore this and count the rape as part of his character and passed crimes
Get out of here Kratz
>>64893114
Yes. It was a "valet key"
>>64893010
>he still burned a cat alive
which he went to jail for, so I guess it's fair that he definitely deserves to go to jail for the rest of his life for an unrelated crime
>>64893130
>And he raped two women
false
>>64893224
I'm not talking about the wrongful conviction or Halbach. There were two other instances he raped women.
>>64893130
well if they didn't have any involvement like they were supposed to, then any evidence against Avery would never come into question, and all of the tin foil hats you hate would disappear.
they probably hurt themselves worse by being involved
>>64893251
I think the reason people are bringing up the cat incident is because, mentally stable people don't burn animals alive. That's something psychopaths do.
>>64893299
Very true.
>>64893169
it was reddit, they did it, 4chan would never do that, they don't even own underwear
>>64893222
You're missing the point. Yes he's guilty as fuck but the point is just saying it and "knowing" it don't make it so. You have to PROVE it with a solid case in a fair court of law, which has not been done.
You're as bad as the prosecution saying "Who cares if that key was planted? Steven Avery killed Teresa Hallbach, he is guilty, we know that with or without the key, say he is guilty", it's just completely at odds with the aim and purpose of the judicial system.
>burns cat to death
>burns corpse of his victim
POTTERY
>>64893297
no, there were not
does nobody care that a bonfire like Steven Avery had on the night wouldn't have been enough to burn a body like that?
>>64893416
Does nobody care that her bones were found in his yard?
>>64893416
If you cut the body into smaller pieces it would be, ya cuck xD
>>64893416
An expert forensic witness testified this at the trial AND they destroyed Traybach's account of "flames higher than the garage" - this wasn't a fair trial though so it didn't matter.
>>64893302
my grandpa once cut a cats whiskers off, put mittens on his feet, tied him inside a cloth sack and tossed him off a bridge onto a train track.
he also has went to church everyday of his life from the time he was 6
and people think kids who grow up playing video games become sick psycho's.
>>64893452
bones that couldn't have been on his yard from the fire he made because the fire wouldn't have burned the body like that
ignore the anonymous tip that they received that the body was burned in a smelter, too
it's not like any murderer watching the news couldn't put together that dumping evidence on Avery's property would be a good way to get any possible attention on them removed.
>>64893347
>You're missing the point. Yes he's guilty as fuck but the point is just saying it and "knowing" it don't make it so. You have to PROVE it with a solid case in a fair court of law, which has not been done.
It's proven by the evidence. Again, the trial was a shitshow, but there's no reasonable doubt here. Just a bungled investigation and trial.
>You're as bad as the prosecution saying "Who cares if that key was planted? Steven Avery killed Teresa Hallbach, he is guilty, we know that with or without the key, say he is guilty"
Nah. You're missing my point it would seem.
>>64893487
>when to church since he was 6
You're not helping your case m8...
>>64893452
does nobody care that there was evidence that the bones had ben moved?
>>64893480
>a forensic anthropologist testified at trial that an open fire wouldn't have generated enough heat to burn a body in the way that those bones were destroyed
>>64893380
Two signed affidavits say otherwise.
everyone needs to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBAoe8hNPk
>>64888213
>Is Steven Avery actually a piece of shit?
Yes he torched that cat by setting it on fire for "laughs" karma caught up to that son of a bitch, so I could care less. With that said, what the cops did was even worse.
>>64893524
im just saying, he's never killed a guy, and never will. people do shit to animals all the time and don't graduate to murder.
>>64893572
oh cool
please point me to the charges and convictions that resulted from those affidavits
>>64893518
>It was proven by the evidence
No. It wasn't. You clearly don't know what you're talking about or understand reasonable doubt, so I'll stop trying to explain to you.
Just a question; you believe that a copy of auto trader magazine, a bill of sale for the van once it's been sold and NO DNA EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER are evidence beyond reasonable doubt that Teresa was in that trailer and events follow the State's timeline?
Please find a way out of any jury work you're asked to do, for the good of justice and society.
>>64893588
>mainstream news source
no thanks
>>64893615
And some do, like in Steve's case.
>>64893600
i always laugh when people care more about animals than people.
>>64893560
>when you cut the body into small pieces you can
:D! See how that works?
>>64890671
Came to this thread for this.
>>64893646
*according to his unfair trial
He probably did it. You could make another entire 10 shows of the effects 18 years of incarceration would have on a mind that wasn't up to code to begin with. The honeymoon of being free would wear off pretty quick and I believe there might have been some people that preferred things the way it used to be.
"Probably" isn't enough though. Dude should get a retrial at the very least. While I think he did it I think there was some police fishy stuff that went beyond your usual part for the course stuff like getting Brandon to confess to kidnapping the Lindberg baby.
>>64893643
it's Kratz giving the evidence he claims they left out, followed by Strang providing counter points
Megyn Kelly is easy on the eyes too
>>64893681
what, you mean you lying?
>>64893182
Yeah, the aliens wiped it from the key.
>old 4chan
You're either incredibly new or incredibly autistic. Please stay on /b/ where you belong.
>>64893756
No, when you cut a body into smaller pieces it is able to burn, whereas burning a whole body in a fire would not be able to burn.
>>64893671
people are shits, animals kick ass
>>64888213
He did it.
>>64893793
a forensic anthropologist at trial gave testimony that directly contradicts what you're saying
are you a forensic anthropologist?
>>64893671
It takes a special kind of fucked up to torture something that can not fight back, that something being a cat, dog, child does not matter.
>>64893832
She was talking about a whole body, not a cut up body.
>>64893636
Neither pressed charges.
>>64893639
I believe the evidence provided by police, and it points to Avery. No reasonable doubt here. Just sloppy police work and questionable methods.
>>64893886
>She
who?
>>64893899
>Neither pressed charges.
oh right
then I guess the rapes definitely happened
>>64893899
>sloppy police work and questionable methods
>I believe the evidence provided by police
top kek
>>64893785
please explain me why a woman who has to travel often using her car would have no dna or fingerprints on the key that she uses.
also, i don't give a fuck who found the key. im not saying it was part of manitowoc police framing. i just want to know if it was a main key or a spare key
>>64893961
>who?
The forensic anthropologist
>>64893588
you gotta believe him, he's got a 350k house!
THE PRIZE!!!
>>64893899
No, you believe the police. You've not made an attempt to objectively and critically analyse each piece of evidence, its credibility and what it means. It's okay to just believe the police, you're socially conditioned to from a very young age and it feels almost unnatural to admit there may be something more sinister behind this "sloppy" police work as you see it.
Like I said, you believe the narrative of the prosecution, which is fine and valid. Saying you believe every piece of evidence, even as its torn down and exposed as far from credible right in front of you, is plain retardation.
Unless of course you just haven't watched the series.
>>64893977
oh right
then you're wrong, because she didn't
>>64893860
yeah, theresa halbech could have fought back too. i don't feel as sorry for her as the cat.
>>64894010
Steven Avery is the murderer. How does that make you feel?
>>64893963
>Main key or a spare key
Why is that relevant? What if she was driving that day with a spare key? What if the spare key was in the car? I believe it was a spare key, but I don't understand how that has any bearing.
As far as why she would have no fingerprints, I don't know. Maybe Steven bleached it. Maybe the police bleached it. Maybe aliens bleached it. Maybe it was just sitting in the wheel well of her car forever and she never touched it, but it fell out and Steven picked it up. Who the fuck knows or cares.
I don't even see the key in the house as a critical piece of evidence for the prosecution, Kratz even said in his closing arguments that the key was irrelevant. The defense and the documentary made it a much bigger deal than it actually was.
>>64894058
i feel like we should find out exactly how we did it through a re-trial
>>64894058
>I have no reply, so I'll try to b8 you into some sort of emotional response
>>64894112
>re-trial
I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.
>>64893961
>oh right
>then I guess the rapes definitely happened
Doesn't it seem curious the amount of bad luck this guy has that two women independent of each other in different decades allege they were raped by Avery, and both declined to press charges because he threatened to kill their families. Very odd that it's consistent with other threats he made to Jodi and his wife. The Mantiwoc police district really had it in for him.
>>64894139
>I'll keep making things up because of my own confirmation bias
>>64894137
not a re-trial, but some other hearing is definitely a possiblity
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/downers-grove/news/ct-dgr-zellner-takes-avery-case-tl-0114-20160111-story.html
I'd occasionally look away for a moment while watching this, and occasionally, I could have sworn it was a woman was speaking when Kratz spoke.
>>64894107
you don't bleach fingerprints. you wipe them.
also, the key is a big deal if it was planted.
but you know what? this has got me thinking that too much has been done to prove steven innocent or guilty and not enough to find out how, when, and where halbech was murdered.
>>64894278
>too much has been done to prove steven innocent or guilty and not enough to find out how, when, and where halbech was murdered
You're the one focusing on the key. Teresa Halbach was killed by a rifle, the bullet was found in Steven's garage, and it was fired by his rifle.
>>64894007
>No, you believe the police.
Yes. I do.
>You've not made an attempt to objectively and critically analyse each piece of evidence, its credibility and what it means.
I have. I've just come to a different conclusion as you.
>It's okay to just believe the police, you're socially conditioned to from a very young age and it feels almost unnatural to admit there may be something more sinister behind this "sloppy" police work as you see it.
I'm not a fan of the police, and you sound 12 years old with your socially conditioned horseshit. But that doesn't mean they planted evidence. You have zero actual proof of that.
>Like I said, you believe the narrative of the prosecution, which is fine and valid.
No, I don't. I find the case they made out of the evidence to be weak, but the evidence is very strong. I believe the evidence
>Saying you believe every piece of evidence, even as its torn down and exposed as far from credible right in front of you, is plain retardation.
Because I didn't buy into what the defense was saying.
>Unless of course you just haven't watched the series.
It's okay that you believed the grossly biased documentary. You're socially conditioned to be that way.
>>64894340
right.
that was all found by the blood splatter in the garage.
oh wait there was only blood in her car.
was she shot in her car from stevens rifle in the garage?
>>64894345
>a different conclusion as you.
>as you.
Opinion discarded, you're fat and gay
>>64894405
Christ, give me a break. I'm on my phone.
>>64894278
Right from the get go the investigation used the working assumption that Steven Avery was guilty, and focused on him rather than Teresa. For example, the defence asks the investigators for an alibi for Teresa's roommate, whose whereabouts are unaccounted for for THREE DAYS surrounding Teresa's disappearance - they have none, they've barely spoken to anyone not connected to Avery.
>>64894397
I don't think she was murdered in the garage, I think the prosecution was wrong about that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they found a bullet with her dna on it in Steven's garage fired from his rifle. That's a fact in the case.
The thought that she was killed in the garage was speculation that I personally disagree with.
>>64894485
Yeah? How do you know that?
>>64894458
>Posting on 4chan from a phone
Also, the Avery Defense Force doesn't listen to logic, instead they resort to name calling. It's like trying to convince people that we landed on the moon. Some people just like their conspiracy theories.
>>64894523
>fired from his rifle
literally impossible to prove, are you fucking retarded or something?
go ask /k/ if you can attribute a impacted, crushed .22LR bullet to the gun that fired it without also happening to have the casing.
please stop repeating nonsense
>>64894458
>Hurr durr social conditioning is a 12 year old conspiracy
You clearly have no knowledge of social or group psychology.
Please, tell me again how one of Stevens favourite magazines and an unfilled bill of sale for the car he was selling is proof Teresa Hallbach was in his trailer? Seriously, if the evidence is SO strong, and this is an extremely important bit of evidence, please explain your mental gymnastics to reach this oh so wise conclusion?
