Why did Rey, a dirt-poor, starving scavenger, tell BB-8 to go away after she saved it from the scrapper? The droid was valuable.
Even if its true value was not the 60 portions the guy offered when Kylo and his guys were looking for it, she could still expect to make good money off this robot that she stumbled upon.
Is this another case of Rey being unrealistically heroic?
becauseshe's force sensitive and could tell intuitively that it was a good idea to keep him
>>64564490
Stop being droidsist.
>>64564490
becauseshe is the key to all this
She's just quirky!
>>64564490
>Why did Rey, a dirt-poor, starving scavenger, tell BB-8 to go away after she saved it from the scrapper? The droid was valuable.
She knows what it's like to wait for someone and sympathized with the droid. It blatantly said this.
>>64564490
I liked TFA, saw it 3 times, but I have no idea. It was not necessary to have BB-8 captured. She should have just found him and that's all.
She also treats the little piece of equipment like a person, shades of TPM.
>>64564540
>muh force
>muh force
>muh force
it's never been perverted as a deus ex machina to this degree before
amazing
I thought it hadn't "awakened" yet?
>>64564635
that's the most contrived reason ever
she's a scavenger, and lives on a shithole planet where you do anything you can to survive and is so dangerous that she has to learn how to fight by herself
yet for some reason she suddenly cares about the livelihood of a droid
>>64564615
as someone whos never seen TFA and sees this webm everywhere, can someone explain to me why she randomly puts on a gigantic fucking helmet?
>>64564663
yes it has
>>64564748
because why not
also to look cuter
>>64564748
I saw the movie and I don't understand it either
>>64564748
There's no reason. She just does it. Maybe because it's supposed to be "quirky".
>>64564816
>>64564855
>>64564875
So JLaw x2? SHES JUST LIKE US GUISE?
>>64564875
>quirky
but i thought she was supposed to be tough survivor girl struggling on a backwater planet
>>64564748
It's a Rebel Alliance helmet. She dreams of adventures and hopes to get away from the damn planet someday.
Remember the scene with Luke playing with his toy T-16?pottery
"That's just blah blah, he just wants you for parts, no respect for anyone"
She respects other people?
And don't say droids aren't people
In star wars, droids are pretty much people
>>64564748
>>64564855
>>64564875
She was humoring herself pretending to be a pilot because a space ship was leaving the atmosphere in the frame preceding that
I hated the movie but at least I watched it
>>64564998
they aren't though
even the kindhearted luke skywalker responded to R2D2 and C3PO with sarcasm
>>64564971
she has to pandr to the female and the waifuist audiences so yes
>>64564982
Im confused, droids aren't made of pottery?
>>64564998
Droids aren't people, the only time they've been treated as anything but someone's walking talking property is in TFA.
>>64564748
>as someone who's never been alive, can someone explain to me why someone would randomly take all their clothes off?
>while at home and alone
fucking kike
>>64565065
Also Amidala in TPM
>>64565069
how is that autistic
she's literally struggling to eat and scavenges for a living, why would she pass up an opportunity to sell something that valuable considering her background?
speaking of which why did that scavenger guy even give her the droid at all?
>>64564748
I don't know. If I lived in the middle of the desert I'd walk around naked.
>>64565069
He's right though. Why does this girl, who literally sells mechanical equipment for a living, suddenly let this piece of mechanical equipment go?
>>64564998
>And don't say droids aren't people
>In star wars, droids are pretty much people
Actually that's wrong. Droids are property. Luke treats them as such in the first movie, 3PO is kicked out of the bar. After they bond R2D2 is at best treated like a pet, and 3PO is treated like a necessary nuisance.
George confirmed it back when he was sane and understood star wars. Droids were a metaphor for slavery.
Of course JJ wasn't paying attention to any of this over the course of 30 years, or the fact that humans can't understand astromechs without an interpreter.
>>64565141
because she would have beaten him to death m8, she's clearly a brute
and in the SW movies women have always been kind-hearted to the droids. Why? I have no idea
>>64565038
>>64565065
>>64565129
If droids aren't people. How come there was a droid sith
>>64564490
That guys not a very good scavenger.
He just let Rey take his shit without so much as a struggle.
>>64564748
>>64564816
>>64564855
>>64564875
Are you people serious? She's fantasising about being a heroic pilot.
>>64565141
>why would she pass up an opportunity to sell something that valuable considering her background?
How do you know its valuable?
>speaking of which why did that scavenger guy even give her the droid at all?
Because the screenwriter couldn't think of a rational reason for the exchange to take place, so they gave up, just like everything else in this movie.
>>64565038
Droidist scum.
>>64564748
>>64564816
>>64564875
>>64564972
You are all autistic. It's to communicate her inner monologue and dream of leaving the planet in a simple visual way. She puts it on while watching a ship take off.
No wonder /tv/ hates TFA, I'm actually amazed but it was over your heads. I honestly thought it was pretty straight forwards kids movie but you still didn't get even the simplest parts.
Never change /tv/, never change.
>>64565178
That's how you fry your skin
>>64565038
and no one would ever respond to a human with sarcasm
>>64565353
Not at sunset.
>>64565282
People here have problems understanding basic human emotions
>>64565383
deserts are pretty fucking cold when the sun goes down familia
>>64565392
well Daisy had a problem conveying those accurately as well
>that scrunchy constipated look at Luke towards the end
>>64565321
Oh, I thought you were talking about the helmet everyone is sperging over, nevermind
The reason she didn't sell BB-8 is because the screenwriters need BB-8 to be in the movie and they couldn't think of a rational reason why she would keep it, so they gave up
>>64564748
She's a Sith spy trying to find Luke Skywalker.
She knows Luke was a pilot for the Rebels and it's a form of sensory visualization to help her get in the mindset of the things he might do and where he might go.Some ship was taking off and she's just pretending to be a pilot because that's what she really wants to do but she has to stay there because she's deluded herself into believing her family is going to come back for her one day.
>>64564490
Isn't it obvious that she views droids as more than mere property? It's not as if she stole it from one scrapper to pawn it off to another. She rescued it because she wanted it to be free.
>>64565432
>i'm autistic
>>64565200
The mechanical equipment she sells are not robots with artificial intelligence and some degree of agency. If you cannot distinguish between a functional droid and some electronic or mechanical component fished out of a destroyed spaceship, you're a moron.
>>64565280
Maybe she fucked his shit up before.
>>64565507
she's childish and autistic and has a thing for mechanics. anakin treated droids with compassion too. she's definitely a skywalker and a sith in the works.
She is a selfless mary sue trope
>>64565210
Back in the good old days if you were caught trying to steal a slave from another honest hard working plantation owner, you could have easily been put to death.
Droids in Star Wars are probably similar. It's probably the norm to leave them alone cause you never know who you may be stealing from.
A Rey was basically a slave herself to one quarter portion guy. She wouldn't want any trouble.
>>64565788
You're probably right but I'd really, really like it if she got to be all those things without being Luke or Leia's daughter. I think the force works a lot better given how the OT talks about it if it isn't this genealogical gift.
>>64564490
I don't know what it is, but I never really found her all that attractive until I took a good look at this picture. Now I'm smitten.
>>64565976
She needs to be Sheev's gender bended sheev clone. It's the only way to salvage this.
>>64564490
Is it hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone can be a good person?
>>64564490
>stealing other people's droids
I can't abide these Jawa posters. Disgusting creatures.
>>64566137
>Anakin killed hundreds of these
>>64564490
Because he didn't belong to her.
>>64564615
>THIS IS POD RACING
>>64566159
Jawas aren't Sandpeople, anon. Jawas are like little ratpeople
>>64566223
In the camp there were Tusken raiders and Jawas and he killed them all
>>64566127
no, it's hard to wrap your head around the idea that a starving, struggling survivor who scavenges to eat and has to fend for herself would suddenly risk her life to protect a droid, which are almost always treated as little more than equipment, and then just decide to keep it for no reason when she could've sold it
it makes even less sense that in a shitty, rough planet like this a scavenger would just give her a droid because she asked
>>64566223
Let's be clear, Jawas and Sandpeople aren't people. That or Padme was a huge racist.
>>64566259
makes more sense than the queens handmaiden posing as the queen would thank an astro droid and then send the real queen to go clean it. sometimes stupid things happen in star wars to service the plot. you can say she has compassion for droids or she could sense with the force that the droid was important or whatever.
>>64566259
She didn't risk her life, she fended off some midget bully who she knew by name and probably worked in the same settlement as. That's like saying you risked your life to save a dog that your neighbor was about to take to the pound.
I don't get why someone pitying a lesser "creature" enough to protect it from being destroyed or enslaved just out of the kindness of their heart is difficult for you to grasp but maybe it's a mental illness you suffer from .
>>64566360
yes, that was stupid too
what's your point, are you saying that because the prequels did it too it isn't dumb?
>>64566292
Would you care for some humanoids on another planet?
>unironically talking about the farce awakens
laughinggirlswithsalad.jpg
>>64564490
Watch the scene where she touches the lightsaber and gets visions through the Force.
It's clear that she was sold into scavenging. She knows what it's like to be little more than property, and thus sympathizes with the droid (a fellow sentient being with emotions that's considered property by others).
>>64566440
*tips fedora*
>>64564490
She humanizes it, she speaks to it directly and explains things to it. As far as I know there's nothing in the canon to suggest people have a rights concept for droids but she clearly sets him free out of altruism towards it, and then takes it in with just the slightest bit of persistence from it.
Once it tells her of its mission then she's vested in it anyway, so the 60 portions test wasn't as wrenching a decision as it could have been.
>>64566451
Don't bother. They're either too ignorant to grasp concepts that were so obviously telegraphed by the film, or they're too edgy and angry to acknowledge it and just want to shitpost.
>>64564490
She just wanted a friend. BB-8 is a good friend for autistic girl.
>>64564653
>>64564718
>>64565129
>>64565065
Luke introduced himself to R2-D2 and C-3PO you fucking idiots. Jesus this anti-rey circlejerk is getting out of hand.
>>64566398
Maybe if they dressed in cute little monk's robes with just their eyes glowing from under the hood.
Or if they were forest teddies, maybe then.
Or wise old swamp frogs.
>>64566373
That's not what we're talking about here. Pay attention.
We're talking about Rey first telling the droid to go away after she saved it, and then when she was at the scrapyard, not selling it off when she was offered 60 portions for it. That's just not something that a starving scavenger would ever do.
The only explanation is that this is one more aspect of Rey's character to be chalked up to unrealistic Mary Sueness.
>>64566518
he did it sarcastically you dunce, he didn't introduce himself like he would to another person
>>64564748
What, you wouldn't try on a cool helmet if you found one?
>>64566387
it's not as dumb as that moment no.
anakin and obi wan talked to droids in a kind way, only han solo was really an asshole to c3po even after the ewoks thought he was a kind. rey has a child like demeanor so it makes that her character would be like that to droids.
>>64566451
there is nothing suggesting she was "sold" into scavenging
she was just abandoned and left on jakku, there is no evidence that she was a slave
>>64566544
I didn't like her character but here's the reason m8
she knows that food portions guy and knows he's a stingy bastard, so as soon as he offered her a huge amount of food for the piece of junk she knew that that piece of junk was actually very valuable therefore worth keeping
it makes sense tbf
>>64566656
not that guy but in the flashback she was left standing next to the fat portions alien. I was confused by that too because I assumed he owned her as a slave or something.
>>64564653
>giving that much money to jew jew abrahms.
>>64566544
>That's just not something that a starving scavenger would ever do.
oh you know a lot of scavengers eh? you're coming up with a lot of dumb shit just to say mary sue again.
she's clearly lonely as fuck and has no friends. a little beep booping thing wanting to follow her around is probably a nice change of pace. the guy offering her a ton of "portions" for it might have tipped her off that it's an expensive droid or something is up, obviously. would you sell a droid for food? I wouldn't. that's like selling a really nice moped or something for food. it's an investment. the worse that would happen is that she goes another day without food.
>>64566722
he was a perfectly normal alien, thank you very much
>>64564663
"there has been an awakening"
>>64566398
Who's talking about "caring?" Padme is fine with Anakin slaughtering a whole village of them. That's pretty fucked up.
>>64566544
That is what we're talking about. First of all, is she starving? Really? She seems to be quite skilled at scavenging and in decent physical health. What makes you think she's starving? Are you just throwing out random words to support your argument? Do you know that starving means dying from not eating enough for a long period of time? That's what that word means, use it right from now on. She was literally eating when she heard BB-8 the first time.
Second of all, she obviously really hates the guy who was going to give her 60 portions for it, and really has a good moral compass, so she wasn't going to condemn the droid to slavery or dismantlement just to appease herself on the short term. That's called being a good person, not a Mary Sue.
Third of all, Mary Sue doesn't apply here, it replies to fanfiction that integrates wish fulfillment in a way that contradicts the source material, usually like a character based on yourself being added to the setting that is stronger than everyone and loved by everyone. Disney owns the franchise and created the movie. They can't make a Mary Sue, because they establish the parameters of the setting.
Fourth, in what world does pitying lesser creatures make you a Mary Sue? Let's create an analogy since you seem to be too much of a sociopath to put yourself in the shoes of another character. Consider a film where someone finds a starving kitten in a box somewhere in Chicago and takes it in, but then is offered 6,000 dollars to sell it to some jackass drug dealer who they know is going to abuse or eat it. They ultimately refuse because of their nagging conscience. Is this unrealistic? If the answer is yes, you're a sociopath, give your mom's home address so I can look up nearby free mental health clinics for you.
>>64566451
>It's clear that she was sold into scavenging.
No its not, it's not even a good explanation
>She knows what it's like to be little more than property, and thus sympathizes with the droid
Her family left her and she believes they will return. She knows what it's like to be abandoned, but there's nothing there about being sold.
>>64566798
Sand people are all terrorists.
>>64566656
In the flashback, she cries out "come back" and a large guy (who is probably the portions guy) is pulling her buy the arm and says "come, girl."
She probably wasn't a literal slave, but she is basically a slave to that scavenging company (only paid in portions so it's not like she can get a ride off the planet and start a new life somewhere). It's like how miners used to be paid in scrip, making it impossible for them to work their way out of the company because, if they leave, the money they're paid in was worthless (also makes it easy to abuse them, because if they protest, you just fire them and then any money they have is suddenly worthless).
>>64566907
>I slaughtered ISIS fucking shits like animals
Suddenly sounds acceptable.
>>64566954
so she's basically harry potter, nice
>>64566894
>shuttle flies off
>"come back"
>portion alien drags her by the arm
>"come on, little girl"
>she's stuck working a slave job where she's paid in food and thus has no way out of scavenging
>guy she's left with later sends thugs to beat her up and steal a droid because it's valuable
>family never plans on returning to get her
Yeah, clearly, her family just left her on the planet with a good friend to take care of her.
Anyone have a webm of the Finn/Rey v Kylo fight at the end?
>>64566999
Sort of, yeah.
>>64564490
>Why did Rey, a dirt-poor, starving scavenger, tell BB-8 to go away after she saved it from the scrapper?
#DroidLivesMatter
>>64566819
She spent her entire life scavenging to survive. It's not as if she had role models or proper parenting, or was taught about the difference between right and wrong. All she did from most of her youth and adult life was scavenge droids for food and learn how to survive. I would expect one flaw from not having any parents is being selfish or doing morally questionable things, but that never happens.
The example you put is a complete strawman. The person who finds the starving kitten isn't someone who A. had no parents or role models throughout most of their entire life B. had to fend for herself in a shithole planet C. constantly scavenged things to eat. Obviously I wouldn't sell the kitten, but I wasn't raised in the same conditions as Rey was, and droids are not treated the same as kittens in the Star Wars universe.
>>64566979
Even when it was the women and the children?
>>64567042
>Yeah, clearly, her family just left her on the planet with a good friend to take care of her.
You'd be making a strong case if this character wasn't so special and powerful, and JJ could do something new that wasn't pottery. I'd be astonished if she wasn't left on Jakku for her own protection.
Regardless she puts in in terms that her family placed her there, she doesn't seem to admit that they left here there, but if she was sold, neither she or the audience knows it, so how could she relate to the droid that way?
>>64564490
>Is this another case of Rey being unrealistically heroic?
Presumably. The ethics of owning sentient AI are questionable at best anyways. Slavery is okay if they're made of metal.
Interestingly, that was one of the very few choices she made (the only other I remember being not to sell it later). I don't know who convinced feminists that Rey is a strong female character, but kudos.
>>64567241
Yes.
>>64566518
They needed to know how to address him.
>>64567190
>orphans can't be good people because I say so.
she scraps all kinds of things, maybe droids but she probably doesn't run into many of that quality or that function. and again the huge amount of portions tipped her off. she was smart to get out of their before portions man had her in a net.
>>64566819
mary sue doesnt apply exclusively to fanfiction. thats like saying tvtropes only applies to tv shows.
either way its a pretty retarded argument when disney added that character for marketing and self-inserting appeal
>>64564490
>Why did Rey, a dirt-poor, starving scavenger, tell BB-8 to go away after she saved it from the scrapper?
because she has a heart of gold on top of everything else.
>>64567250
>audience doesn't know
No, it's pretty clear that she's basically owned by this company when they're paying her only in portions and the flashback shows her being dragged off by the fat guy who later sends goons to beat her up and take her droid (in other words, a guy who doesn't care about her).
Regardless of the motive of her parents (assuming that's even who left her on the planet), she's lived practically all her life "owned" by that scavenging company, and is thus able to sympathize with a fellow creature that's treated like property. She's able to see herself in this droid.
>>64567392
>all orphans are thrown out into a desert in the middle of nowhere to fend for themselves
stop
>>64566819
Droids are robots, in other words, inanimate objects. They're not at all comparable to kittens. People treating them as sentient beings is ridiculous, a good example of which is Luke being sarcastic towards R2D2 in Episode 4.
>she obviously really hates the guy who was going to give her 60 portions for it
Fine, but what about when she had just found the droid and told it to go away and leave her alone? That's roughly equivalent to me throwing away a winning lottery ticket.
>Mary Sue doesn't apply here, it replies to fanfiction that integrates wish fulfillment in a way that contradicts the source material, usually like a character based on yourself being added to the setting that is stronger than everyone and loved by everyone.
That's secondary to most people I think. The primary definition is a character that has no realistic flaws and makes no realistic mistakes.
>>64567190
How do you know she spent her entire life scavenging? How do you know she has no moral compass? She lives on the same fucking planet as Max von Sydow's character, for Christ's sake.
Why do you want so bad for Rey to be "realistically" portrayed as a total piece of shit? What's your agenda? Because you're coming off as unreasonable. What makes you think morality comes only from parents? What makes you think she can't be a good person due to a humbled existence as a struggling scavenger? What makes you think that there literally can't be a single good poor person in this setting? You don't seem to complain about Finn being a good person, despite being conditioned FROM BIRTH to be an evil shooter dude. Finn had WAY more of a reason not to turn good, his entire existence was being trained to be an oppressive stormtrooper, and he threw it away after his FIRST BATTLE. Nobody complains about him.
>complete strawman
You don't know what this word means. It isn't a strawman. It's an analogy, a very fitting one. Seriously give me your mom's address so I can get you out of the basement and into some therapy before you go around murdering people's pets because "the Dark Side told you to."
>>64565178
Melanin-enriched individual detected
>>64567479
>People treating them as sentient beings is ridiculous
I'll just ask, how so?
They think independently, frequently note their current emotions, act in accordance with those emotions, and can act independently of their orders, depending on their personality - and they have one.
They fulfill every criteria I can think of.
>>64567479
wouldn't telling it to fuck off, for whatever reason, be a realistic mistake since she could have made portions on it?
>>64567472
>No, it's pretty clear that she's basically owned by this company when they're paying her only in portions and the flashback shows her being dragged off by the fat guy who later sends goons to beat her up and take her droid (in other words, a guy who doesn't care about her).
No, it isn't. Literally the only proof you have is that an alien said "come here" after she was dropped off to Jakku. That means fuck all. You cannot conclude that she was a slave because of this, and even if she was one you can't assume that she she cares because BB8 is being treated like one too. The only justification that the movie gives for Rey suddenly giving a shit about a droid is that it was abandoned, which is a flimsy justification at best because droids are never treated as people.
>>64567479
>Droids are robots, in other words, inanimate objects. They're not at all comparable to kittens.
Gonna throw this in the trash where it belongs, if droids with actual emotions and free thoughts existed, I guarantee people would show them the exact same pity they show animals. Shit, people already do, it's a common topic in literature, television, and film, people applying humanity to non-human machines, and in most of those examples they don't even have actual emotion like droids do. Your lack of empathy for fictional droids doesn't mean the characters in the setting all universally have the same POV as you.
>That's roughly equivalent to me throwing away a winning lottery ticket.
It is? What gives you the idea that the BB-8 droid is a valuable model? No, seriously, what? Because the alien junker didn't want it for its value, he wanted it because the First Order put a bounty on it. Oh, you didn't catch that? Really? The Force Awakens was too hard for you to follow? Even though like four different examples of people doing the First Order's dirty work for bounty occurs in that one film? Jesus christ. Everything in the film points at BB-8 ONLY being valuable because of the First Order seeking what he has, otherwise everyone completely doesn't give a shit about the droid. She walks around a settlement of scavengers with it, why would she do that if it was a winning lottery ticket? The guy she saved the droid from bent its antenna and tried to catch it in a fucking net, is that how you treat lottery tickets? She tells it to leave, HOW STRANGE SHE WOULD DO THAT TO A LOTTERY TICKET... unless it was not valuable unless you KNEW the First Order wanted it.
>The primary definition is a character that has no realistic flaws and makes no realistic mistakes.
It literally isn't. Despite what you think, repeatedly using a word wrong does NOT mean it acquires a new definition.
>>64567409
>its a pretty retarded argument when disney added that character for marketing and self-inserting appeal
It really sucks but how else do you explain it? females like wish fulfilling mary sues, as demonstrated by twilight and to a lesser extent the hunger games.
Star wars is catering to women because it's the only way to expand the market. Most men are already suckered into seeing this, and most boys are suckered into buying the toys. So make a mary sue, promote her, and market the movie through make up and clothing lines so women will take notice.
When women by the masses are interested in fantasy/science fiction that has a flawed female lead that is challenged by obstacles and has difficulty forming alliances, then I'll take my words back.
>>64567660
Nobody will try to counter this.
>>64567657
>They think independently
>They think
"If droids could think, there'd be none of us here would there?"
Obi-Wan 'no fuckin around with the high ground' Kenobi.
>>64567492
How the fuck else did she survive then? The movie established that she scavenges to eat. The movie also establishes that she had a rough upbringing and had to learn how to fight. Did an alien crash land on the planet when she was 13, and suddenly teach her about what's right and wrong? Why aren't we shown this, and why does she make no mention of this?
>ou don't seem to complain about Finn being a good person, despite being conditioned FROM BIRTH to be an evil shooter dude. Finn had WAY more of a reason not to turn good, his entire existence was being trained to be an oppressive stormtrooper, and he threw it away after his FIRST BATTLE. Nobody complains about him.
That has nothing to do with anything. We're talking about Rey here. If this topic was about Finn then yes, I would also point out that made no sense.
>You don't know what this word means. It isn't a strawman. It's an analogy, a very fitting one. Seriously give me your mom's address so I can get you out of the basement and into some therapy before you go around murdering people's pets because "the Dark Side told you to."
No, it's a strawman. Is it really an inconceivable concept to you that someone raised in poverty, with no parents, alone, constantly having to fend for herself, in an environment that is so dangerous that she has to learn how to fight is different from an average person finding a lost kitten? Get a clue.
>>64567673
>which is a flimsy justification at best because droids are never treated as people.
>Queen Armadillo personally thanks a droid for saving her life
>Chewbacca spends his time in prison trying to repair C-3PO.
>Luke and many other characters have conversations with droids that don't specifically pertain to their functions.
>In the same movie, Poe LITERALLY LEAVES THE FATE OF HIS FUCKING MISSION on BB-8, then risks his life to buy BB-8 time to escape.
are you even trying?
>>64567479
Robots aren't inanimate objects. They're animate objects. They can move.
They're also sentient beings. They're able to perceive their surroundings and even feel pain (remember that scene where the droids are being tortured in the original trilogy?). They even fear death.
These words don't mean what they think they mean.
>Luke being sarcastic towards R2D2
Yeah, I saw that redlettermedia review, too.
>>64567782
Fittingly, the first google result for the quote leads here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_Revolution
Obi-Wan makes a mistake here. Actually two.
The first: He puts all droids on equal level. The second: He assumes AI has the same desires as natural intelligence.
>>64567685
>It literally isn't. Despite what you think, repeatedly using a word wrong does NOT mean it acquires a new definition.
I have to agree with this, but at the same time, if a disqualified would-be mary sue has the same narrative problems as a mary sue, calling her a mary sue may not be correct, but it's a good description of the problem that lets everyone instantly understands what you are talking about.
Being Author inserts and being apart of fan fiction are the least problematic attributes to a mary sue. In fact, some times those things aren't problems at all.
>>64567736
its not a realistic mistake because nobody would realistically tell the droid to fuck off. thats the point of the thread retard.
>>64567862
Queen Armadillo thanking the droid was a dumb prequel decision and was also criticized
>Chewbacca spends his time in prison trying to repair C-3PO.
Because C3PO could be useful
>Luke and many other characters have conversations with droids that don't specifically pertain to their functions.
People talk to stuffed animals too. The droids are still treated as equipment regardless.
>In the same movie, Poe LITERALLY LEAVES THE FATE OF HIS FUCKING MISSION on BB-8, then risks his life to buy BB-8 time to escape.
Yes, from the Force Awakens. Not from the previous movies. And because BB8 has the map.
>>64567845
>How the fuck else did she survive then? The movie established that she scavenges to eat.
The movie also shows her burring parts and being yelled at by her boss for stopping. But you're the same guy arguing she isn't a slave right? Right? She can't be a slave, right? She definitely ONLY scavenges at all times even though we only see a day of her life on Jakku, right? You know everything about Rey from a movie you don't like! You're a credible source!
>Finn is irrelevant
No he isn't. If it's unrealistic for an orphan to save a droid at the expense of not being less hungry for a few weeks, then it is WAY unrealistic for a trained and conditioned murder machine to abruptly become a hero. You can try to dodge this argument but you've been hopelessly checkmated here. Your argument is built partially on nurture, aka "she can't have a moral compass without parents to teach her," but Finn not only was taken from his parents as a baby, but he was trained to be a complete, murderous dick by the First Order. By your logic, there is NO EXPLANATION for him having a moral compass on par with Rey's.
>>64567685
>Despite what you think, repeatedly using a word wrong does NOT mean it acquires a new definition.
can you please recommend a word to use instead?
also it could be argued that shes a mary sue for the producer of the movie, kathleen kennedy.
>>64567673
Yes, it is.
She's paid only in portions. We see her only paid in portions. It's something they make a point of in the movie. When they start paying her less portions for the same work, her only option is to take the lesser pay because it's not like she can take her portions and go buy a house and work in the factory down the block or something, or even pay to get off the planet and find work elsewhere. The company essentially owns her ass.
I can only assume you're being dense on purpose, because I genuinely do not want to think you're actually this dumb. To this, I can only remind you that acting like a retard isn't really trolling.
>>64567886
But anon, that's not canon anymore. :^)
>>64567862
>Queen Armadillo personally thanks a droid for saving her life
Why would we ever want to base anything off the prequels.
>Chewbacca spends his time in prison trying to repair C-3PO.
Because he's a little child-like. And he's at a low point because his master is being tortured and he's in prison.
>Luke and many other characters have conversations with droids that don't specifically pertain to their functions.
They talk to R2D2 like a pet and turn 3PO off
>In the same movie, Poe LITERALLY LEAVES THE FATE OF HIS FUCKING MISSION on BB-8, then risks his life to buy BB-8 time to escape.
What does this have to do with droids being like people? BB-8 was a tool for a mission and its survival was mission critical. There's no way we can know if Poe loved his droid or not, especially not to the point of risking his life. But JJ probably thinks he does.
>>64568013
A primary trait of a Mary Sue is that the world bends its rules, or characters bend their personality, to accomodate her. While Rey's way above what she should be able to do, the world doesn't revolve around her.
>>64567990
>A droid that won't stop talking, got blown up the minute he came onto the facility, and who can't actually walk is going to be useful while you're in prison.
no
>People talk to stuffed animals too.
Kids do. We're not discussing kids. Should I misuse the term Strawman here, too?
>Yes, from the Force Awakens.
Then why is nobody criticizing Poe, when his act of droid empathy had way, way higher ramifications than Rey's? Rey humanizing BB-8 just made her stay hungry. Poe's put Luke's life on the line and possibly the entire Resistance, if Luke's fate is as serious as it seems.
Could it possibly be that your rage about Rey relates to her gender?
>>64568013
There is no word for "character who is more heroic than I personally want them to be," and there's probably a good reason for that.
>>64567919
why not? maybe it was a cheap common droid and not worth much.
>>64568076
>Chewbacca child-like
You realize Chewbacca is around 210 years old at this point in the story, right? So where's your evidence that he was child-like and therefore him treating a droid like a person is an invalid example of how the galaxy looks at droids?
>>64567919
>its not a realistic mistake because nobody would realistically tell the droid to fuck off.
How so? Typically, droids have owners. I mean, it's kind of weird to first butt in and save it, and then tell it to fuck off, but the "fuck off" part could simply be a desire not to get into trouble with the actual owner of the droid, who may accuse her of stealing it. A moderately valuable droid that's just not worth the trouble it could bring.
>>64568089
Did we watch the same movie?
Everyone good likes her and admires her. Leia doesn't even meet her until the end of the movie, yet sends her on the mission to return luke's lightsaber even though only rey and maz know she's tied to this destiny.
Also Kylo goes WHATT GIRRLLL and chokes the guy because she was mentioned as a mere pronoun describing who was with the droid. He has no reason to be interested in her, let alone obsessed, at this point, unless the world revolves around her.
Then there's the unbelievable/unexplained talents she has that emerge right when the plot requires it and not a moment too soon. She doesn't struggle, thus she doesn't overcome anything, she doesn't internally change, she doesn't have a character arc.
>>64568348
>she doesn't internally change, she doesn't have a character arc.
Did we watch the same movie?
>>64568066
That isn't slavery. Sure, it's a shitty position, but there is nothing suggesting that they own her and are entitled to her work without and recompense. It's like saying someone who hates their job, but works anyways to pay the bills is a slave.
There is nothing suggesting that she saves BB8 because she feels that she is treated like property, and sees BB8 as a human being also treated like property. Hell, there is no evidence of any of the aliens ever treating her as property, period.
>droids are inanimate objects
No, they move around on their own. In fact, the opening of the first Star Wars film opens with C3P0 and R2D2 moving down a corridor on their own.
>droids aren't sentient
Again, provably false. Droids are shown to be aware of their surroundings, themselves, and be capable of feelings. C3P0 is the best example of this since he can actually speak English: he worries all the time, he feels elated, he feels fear (he actually fears for his life in Empire right before the stormtroopers shoot him). R2D2, meanwhile, shows that they can feel paid by screeching out in agony when he's shot in the first one. He's not the only one that can feel pain: there's a scene in Jedi where droids are being tortured and are clearly in agony.
>>64568348
>Did we watch the same movie?
Yeah. The same movie where all good characters for some reason automatically like and trust each other, even if they've never met before. I'd like to mention that not one character in the whole movie ever even brings up the possiblity of Finn being a mole for the order.
>Then there's the unbelievable/unexplained talents she has that emerge right when the plot requires it and not a moment too soon.
Yes, that's what I mean by "above what she should be able to do". As for the rest, the movie doesn't allow her to be more than a plot puppet. I don't know why any feminist would appreciate Rey. She doesn't change because she's not given the chance to change. To that end, the movie doesn't accomodate her - it denies he improvement. That's the opposite.
>>64568261
>So where's your evidence that he was child-like
The movies. His ego has to be coddled, and he's the only one who is sentimental to 3PO.
>and therefore him treating a droid like a person is an invalid example of how the galaxy looks at droids?
Because human characters don't treat 3PO the way chewy did. Either major or minor. George lucas himself said droids were slaves and a target for discrimination. 3PO gets kicked out of a bar in the first movie. He almost gets left on Hoth. He gets turned off every time he talks too much.
>>64568126
He's in a shitty situation and could use whatever help he could get. It's better than nothing
>Kids do. We're not discussing kids. Should I misuse the term Strawman here, too?
The point is it isn't inconceivable to find a situation where someone has talked to an inanimate object in joking way. And everyone still treats the droids like property regardless. Talking to droid =/- acknowledging them as human
>Then why is nobody criticizing Poe, when his act of droid empathy had way, way higher ramifications than Rey's? Rey humanizing BB-8 just made her stay hungry. Poe's put Luke's life on the line and possibly the entire Resistance, if Luke's fate is as serious as it seems.
Because Poe saved BB8 because it was important for the mission of finding Luke Skywalker, you autist. Holy fucking shit.
>>64568298
>trouble with the actual owner
She was clearly holding the droid for the actual owner. Her dialog implies it told her that its owner was classified and not available. When the droid pointed out Finn wearing Poe's jacket, she attacked Finn.
Perhaps the anti-Rey sentiment in this thread relates to people not understanding that she was protecting someone else's property, and perhaps hoping for a reward.
Also why would she get in trouble with the droid's owner for rescuing the droid from a known scavenger asshole (she spoke very ill of the guy who was trying to capture BB-8, if you remember), when the droid can simply tell the owner she rescued it?
>>64568461
Ok, i'll be honest, her changes is that every half hour she remembers she has wizard powers.
Eventually she remembers enough wizard powers to decide to meet luke.
>>64568348
>Everyone good likes her and admires her.
Actually, Han was pretty leery of her until she helped him understand the modifications made to the ship. People liked her because she was pretty decent to them, except Finn, but even Finn explained that later in the film.
She'd be unrealistically bending the setting if she was totally unlikable and a bitch but people still liked her. People liking her for being nice, heroic, and on their side is completely normally and a rational response.
>Then there's the unbelievable/unexplained talents she has that emerge right when the plot requires it and not a moment too soon
This happens with the main Jedi protagonist of literally all six previous movies.
>>64568614
>Also why would she get in trouble with the droid's owner for rescuing the droid from a known scavenger asshole (she spoke very ill of the guy who was trying to capture BB-8, if you remember), when the droid can simply tell the owner she rescued it?
Because people are assholes. Poor areas tend to take accusations of theft very seriously, so if the owner thinks they can get something out of it, it may be worth a shot to accuse her anyways. It's a risk.
>When the droid pointed out Finn wearing Poe's jacket, she attacked Finn.
Fuck if I know why. That's overreacting and jumping to conclusions if I've ever seen it.
>>64568466
>That isn't slavery
Mmm, no, it's like slavery. It's like a sweatshop. It's like how coal miners were treated in America long ago (and how they're still treated today).
It's not the same as working a job, because you actually do have the option to leave your job and do something else, even if that "something else" is flip burgers. Rey's options are "scavenge and accept what rations they give you" or "starve."
Yeah, that scavenging company essentially owns her (keyword: essentially).
Quit trying to be so pedantic about this.
>>64568628
She goes from beating up Finn and hating physical contact with him, to kissing him on the forehead and accepting him as a dear friend.
She goes from being obsessed with staying on her planet, to embracing her destiny and bringing the lightsaber back to Luke.
She goes from wanting nothing to do with the Force due to the scary visions she got from touching the lightsaber, to embracing the Force and realizing it's a part of her and she has a responsibility to use it for good.
She was very appreciative of Finn's rescue. Showing appreciation was an unusual quality for a character who previously survived on their own and didn't trust many people.
Her whole arc is learning to let people into her hear and letting go of what's already gone (her family.) Her arc is going forward and being a part of the conflict, rather than existing in her own microcosm of self-pity and denial.
>2016
>Apologists defending Rey as a good character
>>64568722
>Because people are assholes.
You think they are. That doesn't mean Rey does. We don't know much about Rey's time on Jakku. Before you claim everyone on Jakku was a dick, remember Max von Sydow was on that planet and he seemed to be a decent guy.
>>64568805
>current year
>current year meme
>>64568731
>Yeah, that scavenging company essentially owns her (keyword: essentially).
No, they don't. We never see any instance of them treating her like property. All they do is sell her food. Even if they "essentially" own her the point is that she's been treated as property and can empathize with a droid being treated as property. Except, there is no proof of her being treated as property. All they did is exchange goods with her
>>64568686
>She'd be unrealistically bending the setting if she was totally unlikable and a bitch but people still liked her. People liking her for being nice, heroic, and on their side is completely normally and a rational response.
Wait, run yourself through that a second time
A mary sue is a character that is "too perfect", and also a character that bends the setting or other characters when she/he contacts them. But as I understand it, you said she can only bend the setting if she is unlikeable (imperfect), or else the response is rational.
How can anyone be a mary sue then?
>People liking her for being nice, heroic, and on their side is completely normally and a rational response.
Yeah, but leia and kylo go further than that.
>>64568847
Yeah, but there was also the guy handing out rations, and that was very clearly a dick. And the scavenger was also a dick. So there's definitly dicks around, and it's quite plausible she didn't feel like taking those odds.
>>64564615
Did anyone else notice her helmet says Ræh on the side?
>>64564748
>Mad Max tells it's story visually
>/tv/ loves it
>TFA has one character moment that's told visually
>/tv/ doesn't get it
Just goes to show the variety on this board I guess
>>64568802
>Her whole arc is learning to let people into her hear and letting go of what's already gone (her family.) Her arc is going forward and being a part of the conflict, rather than existing in her own microcosm of self-pity and denial.
Luke did this as his first step in the first act of star wars, not the ending
Nothing you listed has dramatic punch or moves the audience. Thats why people "like" the force awakens instead of loving it.
>>64568975
Because Mad Max is a classic. and TFA feels like a overly safe film?
>>64568986
>Rey doesn't advance at all!
>Wait let me shift the goal posts, I mean she DOES advance, but in a way I don't like!
>>64566518
>not telling your dog your name when you first get it
>not telling your slaves your name when you first get them
They've always demonstrated intelligence and comprehension, they need information to work properly.
>>64568885
>sell her food
They don't sell her food. They pay her in portions.
If you tried doing this in America, it would be illegal because it creates situations where the employee is essentially a slave to the employer.
The fact that you thought she was just grocery shopping, and not being paid in portions, shows how little you understood of the film (and the film isn't complex and straight forward), so I have nothing else to gain in this conversation. Goodbye.
>>64568889
Also I agree that a character that wins the approval of other characters with talent or positive straits instead of "no reason" is preferable, but one of the hallmark problems of a mary sue is those talents and traits. There has to be an inadequacy somewhere, and in the case of star wars, an inadequacy that must be overcome.
>>64568975
Don't be surprised. Hating TFA is a meme. It'll die out and we'll go back to baneposting soon.
Just screencap claims that it won't beat Avatar for now so we can post them later.
>>64568986
>Nothing you listed has dramatic punch or moves the audience.
It's a very, very flat arc.
The problem is that most of those changes have to be forced on her by the movie. She doesn't come to any of this by herself, everything has to be pushed on her from outside. And when she finally has a chance to try something as a character, the movie intervenes, to the point where literally the earth itself moves her away from a choice.
>>64569073
No I do like those things, I just wish they mattered to the extent you painted them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_arc
The audience requires a sweeping change that means something to them. If it was enough for you, I'm glad you liked the movie.
>>64568889
they omitted a lot of details about what all kylo ren knows. when rey has the vision she see's kylo ren so there's some kind of connection that they're hinting at. seems kind of shitty to leave it so vague but she's probably luke's daughter and kylo already knew about her, she was a jedi that got away from his slaughter and was sent to jakku to be hidden, just like luke.
>>64568942
Someone seriously needs to redo this with correct spelling
>>64569101
Jesus christ, and you complain that I'm being pedantic.
Yes, they gave her portions. That's still an exchange of goods. No, there is still no proof that she was ever treated as property. It's obvious you have no fucking proof of this and are just grasping for straws as to why Rey wouldn't sell the droid
>>64569132
That's a good description
We basically never see her make a choice she really had
>>64564718
You asked for the reason and you got it. Next time don't so stupid you miss the reason.
Technology in the starwars universe is so prolific that stuff like droids are more annoying than valuable. Maybe the scrapper was gonna take bb8 because it was convenient(it's not like he went out of his way to chase him down) or maybe he was simply just being an asshole and felt like breaking something.
Think of the working millennium falcon, an intergalactic spaceship with hyperdrive and weapons, just sitting in the dump relatively unclaimed and unused. They have so many ships and droids and parts everywhere(especially after the war) that you only get a quarter ration for hard found parts. Think of Rey getting that part from the star destroyer and her pay. Imagine if you worked all day for a quarter bowl of soup. Assuming a $1 can of soup and 8 hours of work that's like 3 cents an hour.
Droids and parts are worthless in starwars. Think of Coruscant, the Republic capital. The entire planet was one giant city miles high. Or the deathstar, an entire moon sized object made entirely out of their technology.
The only thing in less valuable and more abundant than technology in star wars is sand. Which may even be a questionable statement considering how many relatively important characters choose to live on sand planets.
>>64568889
Alright let me spoonfeed you.
The term Mary Sue comes from a Star Trek fanfic in which a character named Mary Sue who was like 19 or something became an admiral and all of the major characters like Kirk fell in love with her. These are things that bend the setting. The term Mary Sue came to mean a character in a fanfiction who's very presence bends the setting to allow them to exist, since admirals would never be that young and it's unlikely so many character would fall in love with a 19 year old for no reason.
Rey is not a Mary Sue because she fits into the setting seamlessly, a Force Sensitive Skywalker who discovers their powers during a crucial moment when people they care about are counting on them, just like Anakin and Luke. People don't go out of their way for Rey or anything, they just immediately like her because she's a bright, sincere person. But even if Rey bent the setting harder, it wouldn't matter, because she is canon. Disney makes the movies and they define the parameters of the settings. If they say that someone is strong in the Force, that's normal for the setting so they aren't a Mary Sue. She wasn't even that strong with the Force, though, she performed some very basic Force miracles at crucial moments just like the other two Skywalker protagonists.
>>64569231
>>64569101
One of you is being too fucking literal about what slavery is and the other is being too loose with their words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIfu2A0ezq0
>>64569264
>implying I'm OP
And midichlorians were an explanation too :^)
>>64569132
She chose to defend Finn. She could've ran from the scary Dark Jedi.
She chose to defend BB-8. She could've left him be or sold him off.
She chose to make sure BB-8 gets to the Resistance. She could've gone back to Jakku at the same time Finn was trying to get away from the First Order at Orange Yoda Lady's bar.
She chose not to take Luke's lightsaber originally, because she didn't want to shoulder the responsibility.
What more do you want?
>>64569205
Yeah but even excusing all the destiny and premonition shit, why would he suspect that a girl who happened to be in the company of this droid was rey?
It's just like anything else in the movie. They decided on the pieces they wanted, but they didn't logically connect them.
>>64569263
>We basically never see her make a choice she really had
I was particulary mad at the "Let's literally move the earth" scene. Because the choice she would have faced there is the quintessential hero/anti-hero distinction, and very important in the context of star wars: Is it okay to kill an unarmed, helpless enemy if leaving him alive may mean other people have to suffer for it later?
This is also at times discussed in the prequels, and the general gist of it is no.
>Luke's surrogate parents die in the first act
>Luke has the entire fate of the Rebellion put on his shoulders despite nobody knowing him originally and him being a farmboy
>Luke turns out to be the spawn of Force Jesus all along
>all of the most powerful Force beings in the universe want him to be their apprentice because they believe he can surpass them
>the Rebellion regards him as a war hero because he uses magic he's only barely heard of to accidentally blow up a space station
Luke is literally a Mary Sue.
>>64569270
It's like seeing a bottle on the street 2 blocks away.
Very few people are going to give a shit enough to walk two blocks over to pick it up and take it to a store to get the recycling return from it. People don't seem to get how worthless droids actually are.
You might consider picking it up if it was literally in your way. And there was a trash can a few feet away. Because doing your part ect...
>>64569538
Except on Jakku it's valuable because you need it to eat. And that guy who gave her the droid for no reason sends two guys after her anyways.
>>64569270
>Maybe the scrapper was gonna take bb8 because it was convenient
He was pursuing the First Order bounty on the droid.
Otherwise I agree entirely with you. People are jumping to a lot of conclusions about this film because they think they know more about Star Wars from now non-canon sources then Disney does.
>>64569567
She wasn't selling the droid, you know. She was selling parts. The guy asked for the droid abruptly. She didn't know the droid was of any value. Everything about those scenes implies the droid was irrelevant, EXCEPT that the First Order wanted it.
>>64569567
He was probably more interested in why she wanted the droid than the droid itself. Because who knows, it might contain something of actual value. Like a map to the last jedi.
>>64569388
idk. might have to dl a cam and watch that part again.
>>64569290
We don't know if she fits seamlessly because we don't know her background, thus we don't know how powerful she should be.
She's not like luke, she's more powerful and struggles a lot less than luke, in terms of abilities and winning the approval of others.
I'm glad you brought anakin up, because he's actually a lot like rey assuming she's justified by the setting. Anakin was space jesus, so his abilities are earned, and george lucas ordained him as space jesus and george lucas defined the parameters of the setting to include said space jesus. Neither of them fit the text book definition of a mary sue, especially anakin because he's fucked up and doesn't overcome his largest obstacle, but I'd argue both are less interesting because of the talents they have and audiences relate to them less because of it.
Also "Disney defining the parameters" sounds like a cop out. It's basically saying that if fan-fiction style writing is canonized instead of fan-fiction, it can no longer be labeled with the same tropes, and criticism of those tropes is deflected that way. Bad writing is bad writing, and it's all we're interested in when throwing the word mary sue around.
>>64569771
>Also "Disney defining the parameters" sounds like a cop out.
If 4 billion dollars doesn't give them the right to write it how they want, what the fuck does?
>>64568942
>instantly skilled at using a lightsaber
No.
This is something people apparently didn't notice: Kylo Ren sucks at this whole "Sith" thing. He's terrible at what he does, a complete amateur.
A trained force user with a lightsaber would have hacked Finn apart in seconds. Kylo Ren had trouble winning, in a lightsaber duel, against a regular guy with no training or force. Yes, he eventually won, but he shouldn't have needed more than two hits.
It's not that Rey is good with a saber. It's that everyone in this movie sucks at using one.
>>64569491
>>Luke's surrogate parents die in the first act
>>Luke has the entire fate of the Rebellion put on his shoulders despite nobody knowing him originally and him being a farmboy
>>Luke turns out to be the spawn of Force Jesus all along
>>all of the most powerful Force beings in the universe want him to be their apprentice because they believe he can surpass them
>>the Rebellion regards him as a war hero because he uses magic he's only barely heard of to accidentally blow up a space station
Wasn't he saved throughout the movie by Han, Leia, and Obi-Wan, all while being kind of a doofus? A little short for a stormtrooper, all that jazz?
Rey solves everyone else's problems- she fixes the ship, saves Finn from the monster, and frees herself from imperial captivity, ultimately defeating Kylo Ren in the climax. The only thing holding her back is her desire to wait for her family to come home.
>>64569939
Kylo was able to freeze a blaster bolt in mid air and trained under Luke for years. Even if he was, relatively speaking, a sucky sith it makes little sense for Rey to instantly be able to best him when she just figured out what the force was moments ago.
>>64569771
Of the three Skywalker protagonists, Rey accomplished the least.
Anakin was a child and he won a pod race then blew up a Trade Federation space station on accident.
Luke rescued a high value prisoner from a super secure space station, then was allowed to pilot a starfighter for the first time in his life during a crucial battle against the Empire on which thousands of lives depended, and won that battle using the Force. Keep in mind that Luke was put in a ship. I can't really imagine that they had more ships than pilots, and that they could just spare a starship and put a newbie in a battlefield with so much to lose... but they did.
All Rey did was beat a relatively inexperienced Dark Jedi who was SERIOUSLY wounded and SERIOUSLY fucked in the head in a fight, after he'd been bleeding out for like ten minutes, most of which was strenuous fighting or pursuit of the two. Oh, and she managed to mind fuck a stormtrooper (the setting's mookiest mooks).
I'm a little tired of people thinking that the Force is some complicated magical puzzle you have to study for 20 years to perform basic feats with. This has never been the case in Star Wars, Force Sensitive protagonists ALWAYS manifest powers before they even become actual Jedi. I'm firmly convinced that the point of the Jedi temple is to teach responsible use of powers and to expand their culture and philosophy.
>>64564663
Yes it has
>>64565282
but she didnt want to leave the planet...
Not the same guy but i kinda get it.
With luke its understandable because he wanted something more out of life, he wanted to leave, go on adventures and whatnot. Rey wanted to stay.
>>64566012
you want her to tie you up?
>>64569979
And do you think Luke trained him in lightsaber combat and using the Force for battle? Why do you think Luke would focus on teaching Kylo on how to be a fighter, if he'd already seen the death of the last two Sith Lords? Why do you think Luke was training warriors?
>>64569364
>She chose to defend Finn. She could've ran from the scary Dark Jedi.
She didn't do anything until finn was incapacitated. She tried running from kylo in the jungle but got force held, she never had the choice to run.
>What more do you want?
A defining moment where the character takes a chance and makes a leap of faith. It's actually the most important moment in star wars.
Luke didn't have to use the force. He had never done anything impressive with the force, only blocked some zappers blindfolded that could be attributed to luck. It was an "impossible" shot that everyone else before him had failed. He could've attempted it with the targeting computer like everyone else, instead he let go and trusted his belief. The impossible is possible through faith, that is the central theme of the force.
Even han solo had an arc, he put luke ahead of his money, cowardice, and selfishness, and chose to save him despite complete safety being an alternative.
So what do we get? A movie called the force awakens lacks the central theme of the force and reduces it to convenient magic. Rey doesn't make a leap of faith, she just remembers she has powers, knows they will work, and uses them.
>>64566451
she's a woman. ofc she knows what it is like to be treated like an object
>>64570029
Because Rey was only around for one movie. Rey also makes the least mistakes out of everyone and ultimately suffers no consequences for them
>I'm a little tired of people thinking that the Force is some complicated magical puzzle you have to study for 20 years to perform basic feats with.
It doesn't have to be. But there's a difference between training for 20 years and just barely figuring out what the force was and instantly being better at it than an experienced force sensitive and being able to do a bunch of crazy things instantly. It's boring as fuck.
>>64569979
>Kylo was able to freeze a blaster bolt in mid air and trained under Luke for years.
This training apparently didn't include lightsaber combat. Because he sucks at it. He's a good force user in general, but he can't handle himself in a fight, and he lacks the restraint his more competent counterparts displayed.
A force user trained in saber combat should be able to take a non-force user apart in seconds, without trouble. That Finn could hold himself for a good while means that he just sucks.
>>64569939
>Kylo Ren sucks at this whole "Sith" thing
Well, first, he's not a Sith. He's a Knight of Ren.
Second, he freezes a blaster bolt, freezes people, mindrapes Poe, killed the Jedi, and then toys around with Finn.
He's no chump.
>>64564663
the force is not the thing waking up, the Force is the thing doing the waking.
>>64570042
Eh, it was a conflict of character. She was clinging to that bit of hope that her family would return but deep down believed they wouldn't.
>>64570147
Except Kylo was having the upper hand until Rey tapped in to force super saiyan mode
>And do you think Luke trained him in lightsaber combat and using the Force for battle? Why do you think Luke would focus on teaching Kylo on how to be a fighter, if he'd already seen the death of the last two Sith Lords? Why do you think Luke was training warriors?
How did Rey suddenly know how to use a lightsaber then? Why was Rey better at the force than Kylo was?
>>64569771
>we don't know her background, thus we don't know how powerful she should be.
that's faulty logic desu, since the force is partly genetic and partly intuitive. all you're required to do is accept that she is highly force sensitive. comparing her to luke does nothing, we don't know how the other would react if put in the others situation.
>>64570147
Well Yoda didn't train Luke in light saber combat either
>>64570178
This. The Force awakens Rey.
>>64569955
>Wasn't he saved throughout the movie by Han, Leia, and Obi-Wan, all while being kind of a doofus?
Nope, he saved them all, except for the Tusken Raider thing in the beginning of the film.
He saved them in the trash compactor by contacting the droids to get them to stop it, he saved them from the pursuing TIE fighters by manning the gun turrets and getting more kills than Han Solo (this literally happens, he's a better shot than Han Solo.) He kills more stormtroopers in the Death Star than all the others combined. He saves Leia by swinging across the missing bridge area. You could say Han saved him during the trench run but he was the one who convinced Han Solo to go against his life long instincts and come to the battle back on Yavin IV, when he guilt-tripped him about it, and honestly even before that, Luke was outperforming all of the other pilots.
And remember, Rey was rescued by Finn and Han, and Finn also probably saved her on Jakku by helping her run away since he knew about BB-8's importance.
So really, they're roughly even on Sueness.
>>64570091
>
She didn't do anything until finn was incapacitated. She tried running from kylo in the jungle but got force held, she never had the choice to run.
Oh shit you just gave away that you haven't seen the movie.
>>64569899
That's not what I said
I said owning the material doesn't make them immune to mary sues or other fan fiction writing patterns
>>64570208
>How did Rey suddenly know how to use a lightsaber then?
She didn't. Did you watch the fight? She charges forwards blindly, hoping for a hit somewhere. Her approach is without any sort of planning or strategy.
>>64570224
I always assumed Obi-Wan handled that part, on the Falcon, and that they just didn't show the full training montage. As in, he got the basics there, and then refined them himself.
>>64570143
>instantly being better at it than an experienced force sensitive and being able to do a bunch of crazy things instantly. It's boring as fuck.
Strawman. She didn't show any qualities that implied she's better than an experience Force Sensitive. She wasn't even better than Kylo Ren, Kylo Ren showed way more power and skill than her throughout the movies and was obviously wounded and fucked in the head and trying to avoid killing her on Snoke's orders when they fought.
Stop fucking ignoring this. Stop fucking trying to dodge this point, because it's always going to come back and prove you wrong.
Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded. Kylo was wounded.
KYLO REN WAS FUCKING WOUNDED.
>>64570216
>all you're required to do is accept that she is highly force sensitive.
Luke had to be taught about the force and trained, so did kylo. Maybe even rey, we don't know.
>>64570178
>>64570230
no, that's not what anyone has said
>>64570271
It literally does, though. You can't write a Mary Sue unless you're writing fan fiction. They aren't. They're immune.
>>64570208
>Except Kylo was having the upper hand until Rey tapped in to force super saiyan mode
Pretty much. She's like scrambling up hills trying to get away from him, barely deflecting his attacks, struggling to survive, running away from him. Then they cross blades, and he's pushing down on her, and she's like barely keeping up, and he says, "You need a teacher. I can show you the ways of the Force!"
And that's when the Force awakens in her and she turns the tables on him.
>>64564490
>Why did Rey, a dirt-poor, starving scavenger, tell BB-8 to go away after she saved it from the scrapper?
A better question is how she knew how to speak Beepy Beep Beep fluently.
>>64570232
No they aren't. Luke fucked up constantly, lol
He screwed up against the tusken raiders and also needed to be saved by Obi Wan from the cantina. Him "contacting" R2 doesn't mean that he saved everyone, it was R2 and that is no different than someone crying for help. I don't know where you got the TIE fighter thing from, since he cheers like crazy after being able to shoot one down. He doesn't kill more stormtroopers than everyone else, he mostly just shoots blindly and kills one or two. His idealism nearly gets him and Han killed and it's mostly Han and Leia that need to carry the weight when they escape.
>You could say Han saved him during the trench run but he was the one who convinced Han Solo to go against his life long instincts and come to the battle back on Yavin IV, when he guilt-tripped him about it, and honestly even before that, Luke was outperforming all of the other pilots.
This is the most contrived thing I've ever heard. They began liking each other because they fought together. And you're also forgetting how Wedge had to save Luke as well. He didn't outperform everyone, he got lucky for the most part and only used the force once to aim a shot
>>64570143
>one movie
I described only one movie for both Luke and Anakin. I didn't describe any of the other shit they did, like Obi-Wan saying Anakin surpassed Windu and Yoda despite only having been trained for like ten years, or Luke pulling the lightsaber into his grip in the wampa cave despite never having any Force training whatsoever, just like Rey.
>>64570367
They are writing fan fiction lol. The entire movie's plot was fan fiction.
>>64570091
>The impossible is possible through faith, that is the central theme of the force.
>Rey doesn't make a leap of faith, she just remembers she has powers, knows they will work, and uses them.
Maz says to let the light guide her so in the zero hour she trusts the force (part of her arc) and that is what lets her win the day. What part of that conflicts with the OT?
That moment when you realize Kylo is the only one who will get any character development in the entire new trilogy.
And that development is going to be entirely limited "Killed dad, I am actually a bad guy now."
Every other character will not undergo any changes what-so-ever. I'm calling it.
>>64570341
>no
Yes, that's exactly what happens in the film.
The Force isn't sleeping. There was the Jedi Order, and now the Knights of Ren and Snoke and Kylo Ren.
The Force clearly wakes Rey up. It's in that scene where she fights Kylo and he's got her pinned. The Force wakes her up and she beats his ass.
>>64569939
Why is it good to have the villain of the movie be a lame dick with no moral principles or redeeming qualities?
Darth vader LOVED the Force. He thought the Death Star was meaningless compared to it. He loved his son. And he will go to the ends of the earth to get what he wants.
Kylo Ren loves his dad, and Darth Vader, and loves the First Order, maybe. But he doesn't really act in the name of these loves. He kills his dad, destroys First Order equipment when things don't go his way, and he just sort of pretends to be Darth Vader in an attempt to look cool. He doesn't actually CARE about Darth Vader's legacy, he just wants to be seen the same way.
Maybe this is intentional, to make him grossly and ineffectively immoral to some dramatic purpose? Who told abrams that people wanted villains like this?
>>64570321
>Strawman. She didn't show any qualities that implied she's better than an experience Force Sensitive
Yes she did buddy. Overpowered Kylo during the mental probing and was better at him at telekinesis (force pulling the lightsaber). Even when Kylo was wounded he was having the upper hand before Rey tapped in to force super saiyan mode, then he lost. Because he's less proficient at the force than she is.
>>64570431
Good point, Obi-Wan was also a Mary Sue, he kept defeating everybody despite being an old man, and only lost to Darth Vader on purpose, and it made him more powerful to lose. He also knew that the Death Star was a space station when nobody else did, and just seemed to always be right or super wise. He never faced any conflict whatsoever, didn't even need a disguise to sneak around the Death Star, and he never got caught.
Wow Star Wars is full of Mary Sues!
>>64565321
She used her Jedi mind tricks.
>>64570367
>JJ Abrams and pretty much everyone involved were huge Star Wars fans
>this is fiction
It's fanfiction, tomodachi. "Official" fanfiction, but fanfiction nonetheless.
>>64570563
That's not what fanfiction means. Sorry but you're wrong. Accept it so you can move on with your life, you poor thing.
>>64570029
>Luke rescued a high value prisoner from a super secure space station
That was part of the empire's plan
>then was allowed to pilot a starfighter for the first time in his life during a crucial battle against the Empire on which thousands of lives depended, and won that battle using the Force. Keep in mind that Luke was put in a ship. I can't really imagine that they had more ships than pilots, and that they could just spare a starship and put a newbie in a battlefield with so much to lose... but they did.
Fair criticism
>All Rey did was beat a relatively inexperienced Dark Jedi who was SERIOUSLY wounded and SERIOUSLY fucked in the head in a fight, after he'd been bleeding out for like ten minutes, most of which was strenuous fighting or pursuit of the two. Oh, and she managed to mind fuck a stormtrooper (the setting's mookiest mooks).
Accomplished less, but still far more talented
>I'm a little tired of people thinking that the Force is some complicated magical puzzle you have to study for 20 years to perform basic feats with. This has never been the case in Star Wars, Force Sensitive protagonists ALWAYS manifest powers before they even become actual Jedi. I'm firmly convinced that the point of the Jedi temple is to teach responsible use of powers and to expand their culture and philosophy.
So what do you say when the next movie reveals rey is highly trained? Would you accept any other explanation? You don't find it strange that she's about as strong as luke at the start of ESB despite the only known history is she searched for junk her whole life? Luke couldn't perform a mind trick. But then again, vader couldn't read minds, yet kylo can, which suggests force powers are asymmetric with different talents.
>>64570495
In a way, this is Kylo's growth potential. He can grow from a pretend villain to a real villain - from someone who just copies and isn't sure what his path is yet, to being himself, and to coming to terms with himself. He can grow up, as a person. Right now, he simply shows all the signs of immaturity, he acts like your average teenager.
IF they're making something out of this, it can work. But right now, he's just an emotional teenager wearing a costume he can't fill yet, and it shows.
>>64570596
They're fans making fiction.
That's fanfiction, chingu.
>>64570321
>She didn't show any qualities that implied she's better than an experience Force Sensitive.
She turned the mind probe around on kylo, seconds after learning such a thing existed.
>>64570631
>So what do you say when the next movie reveals rey is highly trained? Would you accept any other explanation? You don't find it strange that she's about as strong as luke at the start of ESB despite the only known history is she searched for junk her whole life?
It'll make perfect sense. Skywalkers are always naturally gifted and she's a Skywalker. Luke had no training by ESB (or rather, super minimal training) but could see the remote shooting lasers at him and could pull the lightsaber into his grip, and used the Force to guide his photon torpedo. If you ask me, they're already at equal skill, and they're probably about the same age.
She's a chip off the ol block, and that's the end of it.
>>64570268
Oh thats right, she got knocked out of frame so finn could have a dramatic light saber draw
>>64564748
If you were that bored and had nothing- entertainment can be found in a piece of garbage.
>>64570676
They're not fans, they're authorized filmmakers.
You wouldn't call Timothy Zahn's books fanfiction just because he's a fan of Star Wars.
>>64570631
>but still far more talented
you contradict yourself.see
>which suggests force powers are asymmetric with different talents.
yep.
>>64570679
We know nothing about how the mind probe works. For all we know, you make yourself vulnerable to counterattacks when you invade someone's mind. For all we know, his light side compulsion made him vulnerable and caused him to indulge her in some Force training, mentally.
Stop using this as an argument, it's only making you look stupider. The Force isn't and has never been something you REQUIRE training to be good at. The Force has NEVER been an RPG-based level system where more training = you automatically win.
>If you've been trained a few years with the Force, no natural talent with the Force can ever reasonably defeat you!
You heard it here first, folks.
>>64564490
obviously she thinks of droids as people, not slaves
>>64570467
Because it wasn't a test of faith. She knew she was competent with the force, it's not faith, that's knowledge. And there was no safer alternative.
If luke was inadequate with the force or the force wasn't real, using the targeting computer would've been the far better option. Instead luke chooses to test his faith.
>>64570773
Timothy Zahn also wrote fanfics, pengyou.
>>64570736
What Luke does in A New Hope is nothing like what Rey does, and the movie goes out of its way to emphasize this
He managed to deflect the blaster bolts from the training droid after some difficulty, but then Han steps in and says it could've been luck and there's nothing special about that because he doesn't use it against actual combatants. Which is true, Luke doesn't do that until Return of the Jedi
He didn't use the force to guide the torpedo, he used it to aim it. That's why he turned off the tracking device and that's really his only actual use of the force in a real situation
He doesn't use telekinesis until years later in Empire Strikes Back
Rey mindtricks, is better at mindprobing than Kylo, is better at force pulling than Kylo, and has access to super saiyan force mode to BTFO of Kylo, who trained under Luke for years and could freeze a blaster bolt in mid air. All after just barely realizing that the force is real
>>64568043
I thought the same thing.
>>64565788
Fuck you, Bubble.
>>64564816
>>64564855
>>64564875
>being this socially autistic
>>64564490
she views droids the same way we view puppies, cute as fuck.
>>64570826
>you contradict yourself.see
How? What a character can do and what results are two completely different things
>>64565352
It's like poetry.Except it actually achieved that down to traitor's neat trick.
>>64570904
You know that wasn't the first time Luke used the force either, right?
Luke doesn't doubt the force and was even showed a mind trick that could only be explained by magic. No way Han Solo could have called that luck.
Luke rejects mechanical/physical aid and lets himself be controlled by the force. Rey rejects her own instincts and lets herself be controlled by the force. Pretty similar senpai.
>>64566954
>and a large guy (who is probably the portions guy) is pulling her buy the arm and says "come, girl."
BANE?
>>64570848
>Lifting rocks takes practice
>Moving minds is easy because we don't know how it works
>For all we know, his light side compulsion made him vulnerable and caused him to indulge her in some Force training, mentally.
Chances are if you have to asspull some hypothetical, you are the one looking stupid
