What went right?
>>64446599
The Highway chase scene and mechs
>>64446599
nothing
>>64446599
>>64446643
>>64446795
all of it went right, it was a work of art, flawless and perfect. revolutions by far was my favorite of the three. they're classics and by far too. they're infinitely better than that garbage the force awakens.
come, debate me, BITCHES!
Pretty much everything. They blow the first movie out of the water on every front, especially in terms of intellectual merit.
>>64447183
>>64447667
There are people who still believe this
>>64446599
>reloaded
Everything other than being timeless. It is hard to watch it now and be forgiving of the effects.
>revolutions
too much hype. It could never live up to the expectations and fail miserably
>>64447730
stop wasting time. say what you found out of place so i can correct you and then we can be done, hurry up , louse, i don't have all day.
Reloaded had the best fight in the entire trilogy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPyLF7NxZyY
Neo is such a Gary Stu it's not even funny.
>>64447763
what expectations it failed at. are you saying the movie or script was poorly written or is it, it simply didn't go the way you wanted because if its the latter then the movie was superbly done and your disappointment lies in the fact that you wanted Neo to be a Conqueror instead of philosopher.
you're like the pharisees who knew that JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD BUT DIDN'T WANT A TEACHER and one who ministered and aided the sick and insufferable, but wanted a conqueror who would crush their enemies. and smite the wicked to death.
>>64447929
That's the point of the character.
Seriously, can't make a character anymore without having some tvtrope infested redditor point that trivial fact out as if it's some legitimate critique.
>>64447929
except that's the whole point, stop trying to fit in by spamming buzzwords.
>>64446643
>>64447895
This is the kind of person who likes the sequels: wrong people. The highway scene is migraine-inducing, goes on far too long and has no compelling driving action or motivation. Who cares about a truck-top fight vs. a random agent when the agents have been so nerfed? Agent Smith is now Super Epic Powerful Agent Smith, so now I can't find myself caring the slightest about an unfamous actor agent, especially aided by two new characters who have no personality and the worst special effect in the entire series. It's like they morph into world of Warcraft models circa 1999. And there's too much staging: characters appear to have a fight, have their fight, and then end up going through a situation that perfectly leads to another fight. But that's pretty much every action scene. Especially the Chateau scene, which is probably the most derivative fight in the entire series. Just try to count how many elements of it you've seen in other movies ... here's a hint! ALL OF THEM.
And holy shit, WHO can like the mechs? They're like niggerbots. They actually hold big gats sideways. It's like I'm watching Bay's Mighty Rappin' Transformer's. God, and it's so clear that the people riding them are MS painted on, they look comically out of place. Awful.
>>64448000
>>64448148
>it's ok when a transvestite does it!
>>64447929
Neo is not a Gary Stu, boy! if anything he's anything but. he had the power and the potential to become the DEUS EX MACHINA IN FLESH, but instead he was irrevocably human. Neo's Sude ability existed mainly within the Matrix but after receiving his upgrade by going through the door of light in Reloaded, he was given access to the Source. Before, he could sense the Source and what it felt, but this was the first time he could wirelessly, access the Source. the process, as the architect pointed out, upgraded his consciousness. But even then, even after an upgrade that gave him virtual sudo control over all machines that originated from or originated with, the Source, he remained human and ignorant to the fact. He saw smith in Bane thanks to losing his eyes and by the end of Reloaded he could sense the machines and stop them being a virtual deus ex machina in human form.
the ability to copy didn't originate with Smith but the ability to do so came from Neo. Neo could have copied over others like Smith did, but such a thing didn't occur to him.
So you see, a Gary Stu, Neo wasn't because even after getting all that, Once Smith assimilated the Oracle and gained her powers along with facets of Neo's, well, Smith was unstoppable. Neo could have continued to fight Smith forever but that would not have brokered a peace.
>>64448183
I see you missed the part when the Architect named the Oracle the engineer of everything that happened because she wanted to broker a peace between the humans and machines.
Smith gained a part of Neo's equation, the part that sought to balance the equation, with said equation came a type of Sudo access. Sudo as you well know, allows you to copy files, Neo could have done the same but didn't want to.
>>64448201
What?
>>64447806
Not him, but you're delusional if you think the Matrix sequels are even 'good.' There are almost too many problems with them for me to form a cogent response. It would take an entire essay to go into the depth the flaws deserve. Here's the crux of all the flaws though: they were unneeded. Clearly, and obviously, these Hollywood money-suckers of sequels were only made because the first did so well monetarily. Everything bad about them points to the fact that they didn't need to exist, on a story level, and only exist for spectacle and to sell tie-ins (the anime, videogames, comics, and of course the DVDs). Here's my proposition for you, and here's how I'll show you how delusional you are: name me one element of the sequels that wasn't already implicit in the original.
What went wrong after failing to copy Dark City? Everything.
>>64448349
sensationalism isn't what's needed to bolster your views, i just cited several reasons why the trilogy was perfect, and here you are going on about something else entirely. cite what's wrong with the movies.
>>64448318
What? All I critiqued were the action scenes, why did you respond with that? And no, I didn't miss that - the plot of the Matrix movies is easy to understand so long as you have vocabulary above a college level - and once you do, they're laughably glib.
>>64448466
if you say so, and the fight scenes were epic and hasn't been repeated in anything since or before. well, maybe in a man of steel.
>>64446599
Mostly things that weren't important. The music was great, some of the design work was insane, some neat side characters, and a few of the action scenes CGI or not we're exciting.
However the films are a mess in terms of story. The characters are oddly executed, the ideas are more silly then not, the CGI is overwhelming, the dialogue is prequel levels of bad, and Revolutions is a 2 hour long 3rd act focused mostly on characters no one cares about instead of Neo and Trinity.
I personally love the fuck out of that hovercraft chase sequence. But that doesn't make it, or the movie good.
>>64446643
highway scene is one of the greatest action sequences ever.
movies are mediocre but pretty entertaining
>>64448425
>i just cited several reasons why the trilogy was perfect
Where? All I saw was you regurgitating, on a surface-level, the convoluted and meaningless plotting. You have failed to touch on what about the storytelling is good, or what about the cinematic merits are good. And I already argued my point, and you've predictably failed to respond: nothing in the sequels is needed, nothing is meaningful. Every single element of the sequels was IMPLICIT in the original, and had its effect already, and was not needed in two other movies. That's it. That's why they're bad. The plot is pointless and so the action that spans the plot is pointless - the Matrix sequels are nothing but wasted dialogue, needless scenes, long drawn-out action and CGI without justification, without being deserved. Show me one thing in the sequels that wasn't implicit and executed already in the original. I know that you can't.
>>64448606
Where are your reasons nigger.
>the sequels are unneeded
>without justification
>needless scenes
>wasted dialogue
Explain why you kekold. Your circuitous sentences don't disguise the content anemic quality of your posts.
>>64448513
>the fight scenes were epic and hasn't been repeated in anything since or before
Funny, because they were entirely inspired by Ghost in the Shell. The Wachowski Brothers even showed the suits a tape of GITS and said 'we want to do something like this.' The fights in the first film were new, for live-action Hollywood, and were cloned to death after (eg, Equilibrium). But the sequels? It was just showy choreography. Star Wars prequels flailing around. I can't even begin to list the action movies that do the same thing, because they pretty much all do. As for the highway chase, that's just their attempt at showing up James Cameron, but they went way too far with it and it just became silly. All the action scenes are badly edited, there's too much going on, it's just CGI bullshit flying all over the screen and area changes trying to give it a 'breadth.'
>>64446643
>mechs
The mechs were great, they evoke the feeling of stop motion animated effects without actually being stop motion or trying to literally replicate it with CG
Also while discussing CG, for all the wonky looking clone Smith and Neo fights, the "real world" stuff looked way better than it did in the original movie. It's a shame the CGI in The Matrix is just below the cusp of what I would consider passable now. Maybe Reloaded and Revolutions will be that bad in a few years time too. For now, it's great, it's just the rigging and animation of people that's bad. Gaeta was over-confident in what he could get away with
>>64448966
you can explain all the bad cgi away with it being a problem with the matrix
>>64448606
all of that and you have yet to say specifically what was out of place: what convoluted plotting?
What elements were shown IMPLICITLY in the original?
what scenes and dialogue were drawn out and needless? which action sequences were drawn out?
you're being horribly vague.
>>64448775
much like the guy above, you're being vague, give instances.
>>64448731
God, you just won't play ball, will you? Here' I'll give you my own example then, because you're too scared to have your bad taste exposed: the Oracle's monologues about choice and destiny. There are two entire scenes with her where she gives a long spiel, but none of them have any more of an effect than her single line in the original movie: "Oh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?" That single line contains all of her monologues in the sequels. This is a problem with all of the 'philosophy' of the sequels: it thinks for you. Characters stop to extrapolate things you could've already extrapolated and mused about. They talk about the general concept of fate and sacrifice and choice as if it's a class on what those words mean, when everyone already knows the import of those things. The story does nothing to make those concepts compelling through plot or action, it just expects you to be compelled once it starts giving you the Wikipedia definition for 'choice.' This is the same for ever other plot element of the sequels: it beats the dead cow of something that was implicit and understated in the original. The first Matrix was beloved because it made the audience think and suggested more than it showed. The sequels do nothing but show, and all they do is point, and then they run off and throw fists, and then they explain what 'fate' means on a surface-level, as if they think they're dropping some sort of hot epiphanic truth. Prove me wrong, give me one thing the sequels said that was new and needed and worth sitting through fight scenes for.
>>64446599
In the matrix:
The omnipresent 4th wall breaking tone of "everything you know is data" ghosts and shit are virus, Seraph is avast, every door has a backdoor for a hacker, agents gets "upgrades", etc etc etc.
Out of matrix:
Mechs, the chinese general dude, zion was pretty pauper, a gazillion squidssquad, the elders didn't give a fuck if they die or not, a lot of screen for sexy Jada Pinkett
>>64449087
I gave a literal instance of a before, which is a fact, that it's based off Ghost in the Shell. Do you want a more detailed example? Because the directors have already literally said that they mirrored a scene where Motoko bounces up an alley-way wall and lands on a rooftop, crushing the tiles due to her heavy prosthetic body. In Matrix 1, Trinity does the same thing ... except here it doesn't make sense, because she's not a cyborg. They ripped off a shot because they thought it looked cool without understanding what the action was communicating. This is because the Wachowski Brothers don't know how to communicate through film.
How about you show me some aspect of a fight scene in the Matrix sequels that WASN'T done in a movie before? Why do you expect everyone else to prove their arguments but not yourself? Burden of proof is on the positive claim, after all.
>>64446599
>it ended.
>Bellucci's tits.
>pretty much nothing else
>>64449022
What about in the original? The worst CGI was the hovercraft and the sentinels. That's what I was talking about, to be clear. It's like the believability switched around.
First movie
>In the Matrix: believable effects (excellent use of photogrammetry and even models + real people)
>The "real world": pretty bad looking CGI
Sequels
>In the Matrix: CGI's amazing! Let's do everything with CGI! Fuck performance! Fuck believability!
>The "real world": Nicely competent renderings of mechanical things. Some not so convincing greenscreen.
>>64449237
>How about you show me some aspect of a fight scene in the Matrix sequels that WASN'T done in a movie before?
Those two dreadlock ghosts who could phase through things
Made for pretty original fights
>>64446599
>What went right?
This motherfucker.
>We will never get a Plinkett review of the Matrix sequels.
>>64449295
Those looked awful though, and phasing was done in R.O.D (another anime) and has been done in the X-Men films since.
>>64449325
>wanting reddit content
>>64449309
He's such a forced 'the internet'll go crazy about this eccentric character!' meme.
Reloaded was great at the time
Revolutions had a literal deus ex machina (the machine intelligence is listed as deus ex machina in credits) and had an unsatisfying resolution, which just weakened the shit Reloaded built up and makes Reloaded weaker retroactively.
>>64449022
If you have to make up an excuse for why something is bad, it's just bad.
>>64449355
>and has been done in the X-Men films since.
why are you bringing up things that have been done since as though that means anything
>>64446599
All those chicks in latex in the bdsm club in revolutions.
>>64448349
I possibly have never read something so long that said so little. What I’m getting though is you feel the first one summed up the story pretty much and the sequels were made solely based on the monetary success of the first in order to capitalize on making a shit house more money?
>>64449479
not really
(unless you want something to be bad)
>>64448349
>name me one element of the sequels that wasn't already implicit in the original.
The notion that vampires, werewolves and ghosts were once agents of the Matrix. I never felt that was suggested at all by the original and to be honest it took the sequels to a place that was a little too whacky for me.
The first movie suggested that deja vu was due to a glitch in the Matrix, and that I was willing to buy, deja vu is an entirely internal thing. We all experience it, but we can't experience it on mass or share it with each other, so to explain deja vu by linking it to the Matrix was pretty cool.
The paranormal, though? What an unnecessary leap.
>>64448731
Well, as for wasted dialogue... the script for the original was tight, but while watching the sequels you literally don't need to pay particular attention to what's being said during about 85% of the scenes and you'll still be able to follow it. That's a sign of incredibly weak dialogue.
>>64449771
See, it had an effect and the sequel tried to milk it. The effect they were going for with the paranormal stuff was 'woah, that's crazy, that would totally explain that, it's like we're in the Matrix!' but they'd already done that, and better, with the Deja Vu.
>>64449529
I'm saying that everything in the sequels is taking something from the first and attempting to amplify it, and that when it's not doing that and appears to be introducing a new concept, that concept is actually, if you think about it, just something that was implicit and hinted at and already had its effect in what was left unsaid in the first film.
>>64449237
so the movie isn't at fault, persae, but it is because it may or may not have used elements from other movies? that's why the movies are flawed? seriously? c'mon man, are you high? almost every film maker since the fat man at 24 did Citizen Kane was influenced by something else that came before it. Jeez man, you're being silly.
and you're going to tell me in which movie did you see the burly brawl or where did you see the final fight in revolutions done before the matrix did it.
>>64449493
Because you said before or since.
>>64449947
It doesn't matter what came first, only if it was done well or not. I was responding to the anon who said
>if you say so, and the fight scenes were epic and hasn't been repeated in anything since or before. well, maybe in a man of steel.
Which is patently false.
The sequels are bad movies for the reasons given several times over in this thread.
Also, the burly brawl was never done before because it's a stupid and boring idea. Neo can just fly away at any time since the ending of the first movie, and Smith's power is only so great that the specific right balance can occur and the right action choreography can happen. There's nothing compelling happening there, it's literally just spectacle that occurs for no other reason than to show off visual effects that have aged like milk and looked stupid at the time as well.
Also, the ending of Revolutions was just a DBZ fight. The Matrix movies are just an assemblage of anime fight scenes and Philosophy 101 concepts.
>>64447183
>they're infinitely better than that garbage the force awakens.
Well you got this part right at least
>>64449771
>on mass
Damn, I made a typo I normally get annoyed by when I see others make it.
>>64449848
I would also say that characters who were explicitly programs (but not Agents) were new to the sequels. In the original there's people who are aware of and have escaped the Matrix, and the Agents. It's pretty clear cut. The only outlier is the Oracle, who I don't think it's suggested is anything other than a person who is aware of the Matrix and apparently gifted.
Then suddenly in the sequels the Oracle's confirmed as a program and there's her bodyguard and the Merovingian and Persephone and all of their goons and the ghosts and the Key Master and the Architect. The whole thing became way more comic booky.
>>64449968
That's cute, you think you're talking to one person. You're trying to discredit The Matrix franchise so hard by discussing its influences, I'm not sure why anything that's been done since would matter to you.
We should have never seen Zion
>>64450160
Was Neo and the others meeting at the secret meeting bad in which it was revealed the Icarus crew lost their lives to send a last message.
is it when neo sensing smith since a piece of himself was copied into smith and which smith uses to copy himself over others and have back door access to constructs?
is it when neo fought and beat the upgrades, or is it when he flew about looking for the oralce?
is it when when they returned to zion or the pissing contest between lock and morpheus. is it when bane and his crew gets the message from the oracle or is it before that when zion danced?
is it when neo and the oracle has a talk or is it when smith and neo had a talk?
you're being general as to why it sucked, give specifics.
>>64450209
My main problem with the program characters is that they don't really serve a point. They just serve as talking heads to dispel bad armchair philosophy and maybe give Neo something or take him to the next important set-piece.
It's simple guys,
The Wachovskies made lore for these movies so deep they didn't even comprehend it them selves cause that would have taken many more years to come. And with cinematography that revolutionized action as we know it the movies ended up being too good for it's audience which is why it did poor in reviews and the box office was mediocre.
>>64446599
they could have made zion something like an acual city like they said it was in the first but it was just a depressing and dull underground bunker. the mechs were cool though. Too many hack actors. and the extras that look like they just drove around california looking youngish people and a good ethnic mix for the african rave orgy. The bowling ball pins sound wtf like the whole scene was decent then that stupid fucking sound like come on. Could have written smiths character way better. the last dragon ball z fight was fucking cringe worthy and pointless. The baby face I think would have been more frightening if it were an actual childs voice. yada yada yada
>>64450389
What was the point of your post up until the ending there? Why are you summing up random scenes?
At least it gave us The Animatrix.
>>64450519
The lore is not deep.
>>64449325SOON
>>64450389
Why was it good? For all the claims of dissenters being vague or general, no one in this thread has given any valid reason for anything in the sequels being good.
>>64450622
>>64450622
saying something is bad and not being able to say in what way, like you didn't like the way a character was fleshed out or lack there of. or how a scene was shot, or the music used or the poor editing. something other than, i didn't like what they did to the mythos after the first one, isn't saying a movie is bad or not. you simply didn't like what they did with the theme.
>>64450754
it was good though. no complaints. every complaint was as vague as yours. much like the guy above, you wanted the heroes and the movie to go some where else.
>>64450637
This, to be honest fampai.
>>64451597
The only one being vague is you. You won't give reasons for why it's good that are as specific as what you're asking from those who think it's bad.
And I actually have gone into depth about many of the film's problems. You haven't gone deeper than a puddle into what the movies do right.
>>64449325
why would we want one? It's pretty obvious that they don't do intelligent reviews anymore. They'd just side with larry wachowski and suck his girl dick the whole time.
>>64451782
>>64451782
every scene was good, it furthered the methos and enhanced the lore. you're the one who thinks it was bad. it was all good, no complaints here. the burden of proof is on you, for i said it's all good.
>>64452390
Lol. 'You're being general, be specific!' 'Ok, you're being general, you be specific.' 'It was all good, everything!!!'
This is our conversation. And no, burden of proof lies on the positive claim. This is literally how it works. Look it up.
>>64446599
the dock attack of Zion was good.
>>64452543
You want this then here it is, I found it all proficient and efficient in every possible way.
the movie establishes the machines are on the march towards zion. it then establishes zion, the place where the machines were going who were at risk of being invaded. it shows the people and their feelings and their fears and their hopes and the range and the score of not only the many characters but it effortlessly sets up a foundation that is to be the oncoming war. it then helps us see what is also at stake, and it's not just humans either. it tries to build for us an understanding that machines can be and are, equally as important in many ways, as the humans of zion are. You see Neo couldn't just decide to broker a peace if he didn't see what was at stake. if you'd remember, in the third movie, neo was surrounded by millions of machines many of whom were bug sized. to neo they were all golden, in effect, they were all beings who reflected the light of god.
>>64452543
>>64452839
I think i loved revolutions the most for it establishes who was the real deus ex machina, the engineer of all of it, was the Oracle. Smith acknowledges the Oracle gave him the choice to reject returning to the source so he called her Mom, but as to why she did it he was oblivious to.
Neo ask her plainly what was her purpose, and she said, quite plainly and with icy conviction, that her purpose was to unbalance the equation. in the second film, her previous shell said to Neo that she has one interest, the future, and that she was willing to go as far as Neo was, to get it.
And she was, she sacrifices her body to see Neo through to understand why he made the choice. The choice he made was for Trinity, who was a part of zion, which was a part of the human race, which gave neo the push to sacrifice his form, as the oracle already had done.
