People think Starkiller was more offensive than ending the OT with this?
Yes, if only for the fact that they literally did the same thing for a third time.
This ain't your momma's death star!
It was because Sheev's plan was different in RotJ than in ANH. Meanwhile TFA's ending is literally a combination of RotJ (destroy a generator on the ground to weaken the not Death Star) and ANH (destroy the not Death Star before it destroys the not Rebel base)
>>64427721
>literally the same thing
that death star 2 though, not starkiller
The one from ROTJ at least makes sense due to Fox execs making Lucas rework the story. The one from TFA is just a blatant rehash.
Neither is bad.
In A New Hope the focus on the story was to destroy the big super weapon Death Star.
In Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, the Death Star / Starkiller Base acts as a back drop for the main story of Luke vs Vader and Rey vs Kylo.
Even though super weapons were brought in again, the story isn't about them and instead focuses on the personal conflicts of our main characters.
So it's kinda different, Senpai.
>>64427687
Yes, because the plan around the second Death Star was completely different. It was deliberately set up to resemble the situation of the first Death Star, which would make the rebels overconfident and lure their whole fleet into a trap.
Starkiller base just copied the original.
>blows up a planet full of people
>is targeting the rebel base
>gets destroyed by X-Wins flying down a trench at the last second
>>64427816
>>64427786
>>64427721
>defends a L I T E R A L rehash because its an old flick
It's fine to reuse an element once. When literally two more movies in the series do it (I'll Try Spinning and Planet Death Star), it gets pathetic
Plus DS2 was more interesting
>not completed--most visually appealing
>built with various mechanisms to shield vulnerabilities
>huge scale space battle simultaneous with coordinated land assault
>huge reveal that DS2 was actually already operational and Sheev knew the Rebels were trying to shut down the shield
>>64427846
>more interesting CUZ IT LOOKS KEWL
>>64427687
At least this gave is the greatest space-battle in film history. Starkiller base was just a unecessary sidenote to the real climax which was the duel with Kylo Ren
The second Death Star was silly (maybe say they were building 100s of them or something)
I mean the first one was still successful , it destroyed a planet
The plan was to draw out the rebel alliance though, so the point of the second one was different. It was more of a decoy
I let out a slight chuckle when starkiller was shown as being a super giant Death Star killing 5 planets at once , that was cheep
>>64427838
I'm not defending Death Star II, I'm only saying Starkiller is more offensive. Read the original post.
>>64427919
>something is more offensive for at least attempting to be slightly different
>>64427880
It was more interesting because its purpose was different from Death Star 1 while Starkiller is just Death Star 1 but bigger and badder
The problem isn't just with them recycling the death star a 3rd time. But to touch on this real quick, having one repetition is far more acceptable than having a repeat of the repeat. It gets exponentially worse as you go on.
But more importantly, the main issue is PACING. The death stars in ANH and ROTJ were central to those movies' entire plots. In ANH, it's shown very early on and it has plenty of set-up and important scenes taking place on it. Same with ROTJ. But in TFA, it's unveiled out of the blue in the 3rd act of the movie and destroyed in what feels like 15 minutes later. It had absolutely no setup whatsoever.
And this is forgetting the basic lapses in logic that you have to accept.
The galactic empire, with all its resources, needed 20 years to construct the first death star.
Then suddenly some shitty remnants group cargo cult who has basically been banished to the far corner of the galaxy is able to make a brand new super advanced weapon that's 10x as big and 100x as powerful? What a load of horseshit.
tldr; didn't make sense to have it, the idea was too stale, and it wasn't set up properly and felt more like the "final level" of a video game than an actual part of a plot
>>64427880
You a faggot or something?
>>64427938
Sorry buddy, a giant laser that destroys planets isn't "slightly different" enough in the same sense that the Death Star II being unfinished isn't "slightly different" enough.
>>64427989
B-B-BUT IT WAS BIGGER AND SHIT
The starkiller is the perfect representation of everything wrong with Ep7. Same shit as before but cranked up to 11 and taken with 30mg of adderall
>>64427687
Death Star II was perhaps not the best possible choice for the ending. However, RotJ they have put enough new spin on the old plot - Palpatin was counting on the Rebels trying to repeat their ANH victory all over again, and setting a trap.
Each one shows a better thought process over the last:
1) Eh. Lucas admitted he had to skip right to the epic's end because he wasn't sure there'd be another film.
2) This time it has a shield, and Sheev is actually counting on the Rebels sending some of their forces to the ground and disabling it, because assembled fleets crush the Rebels. If you imagine that this was the original plan the whole time and that the first Death Star never existed, you get something closer to the original vision of the story.
3) Starkiller's shield is moved inside instead of living on some nearby planet. The only problem with this plan is that Han's reflexes are apparently good enough to come out of FTL somewhere between the planet's atmosphere and the ground.
The good guys had to do succeed with some really stupid bullshit to win this time. It wasn't entirely on the bad guys walking around with a Kick Me sign.
Everything that was retarded about the Deathstars is even worse with the Starkiller.
It was comical how easy it was to disable the shield.
>>64428202
I just realized the plot point of using warp speed in an impossibly precise way like that to solve a major problem is ripped straight out of JJ's startrek movie
>>64427989
the point with it being "unfinished" is that it's bait along with the emperor overseeing the completion personally. Maybe it wasn't the most creative idea ever, but I feel that it worked rather well. The movie certainly has bigger problems than that.
>>64427962
It makes even less sense when you consider the fact that the order built it while the republic supposedly had control over the galaxy.
>>64428332
The thing they failed to repredentx completely, is that the First Order is actually a real imperial remnant, think Byzantine/East Roman Empire to Rome.
They are not just terrorists, they are an actual force, meanwhile the republic is still adapting to controlling their newly acquired systems and while they are powerful they don't directly confront the remnants, isntead funding the resistance.
But JJ is a bad film maker so ofc he wasn't able to show this.
>>64427687
>looks exactly like the first DS
>it's twice as big
wookiepedians will defend this
There are 3 battles at the end of RotJ
Space battle, which is going badly.
Ground battle.
Luke's battle against the dark side with, conversely, Vader's battle of conscience.
All these are intercut to perfection.
>>64427687
Why did Lucas think it was a good idea to bring back the SAME thing from the first one?
>hey guys remember how we had that deat star? yeah its do it agian..but bigger
>tfw people bashed the expanded universe before TFA was out on things like the sun crushed when the new death star is something more dumb
>>64428491
It's a shame that absolutely nothing was explained at all. It was like they were absolutely 100% allergic to any sort of galactic-level exposition because the prequels went overboard on that stuff. So they ended up not wanting to touch on politics whatsoever, but this was just too extreme in the opposite direction.
In ANH, the names were self explanatory (empire and rebel alliance) and even then, there was enough backstory and exposition to give you a rough idea of what's going on politically and you got the sense that there really was this entire world and we were just seeing a small part of it. I didn't get any of that from TFA.
>>64428287
>>64428202
Originally, it was gonna be a massive Resistance ship called the Warhammer that broke the shield generator. Thickly armored thing about as big as a Super Star Destroyer that pimpslaps the First Order ships in orbit and punches through the shield to deliver the airstrike teams
>>64428633
There was a feeling of urgency to them that the ending of TFA lacked
If you could hyperjump through a shield then shields would be virtually useless.
You could jump unarmed ships through packed with explosives or just antimatter.
It doesn't even have to be accurate to be devastating.
JJ is a fucking idiot,just like Steven Moffat. He tampers with ideas without any thinking the changes through.
>>64428967
Exactly. And there was even a sense of the possibility of failure.
>>64428967
>ewok battle
>lack of urgency
>>64429003
>You could jump unarmed ships through packed with explosives or just antimatter.
or just tie a hyperdrive to an asteroid
>>64429554
Yes. If it materialises inside the target then even better.
>>64427838
Are you stupid? The emperor set up the second death star to be a trap for the alliance so he could corner their fleet and then warp in the imperial navy to wipe them out in one big battle - not to mention the Death Star 2 was being shielded this time. Of course it was "rehash" because the emperor knew the headstrong and confident rebels would fly right into a trap thinking "oh another Death Star - no problem"
>>64429899
That and while the structure itself was a rehash, its role in the plot was not.
ANH was about returning the plans so they could blow it up. Jedi was about how destroying the endor base. Same basic situation was used in two separate ways. But in TFA, it was basically just a mashup of both situations, including both blowing up the shield generator as well as a trench run.
Exactly this. DS1 and Star Killer were a show of force. DS2 showcased trickery and deception.
