Why are we still calling her a Mary Sue when it's pretty much confirmed that she was trained by Luke but got her mind wiped? She's remembering her powers, not discovering them.
>i'll try amnesia, that's a good twist!
come on disney
>>64421178
>>64421210
It worked for Kotor
>VII was a New Hope ripoff
>VIII will be a KOTOR ripoff
>>64421178
Its probably a likely outcome since she was outed by some of the mainstream media as a mary sue and disney will probably make face to defend it.
I think it's just /pol/ being retarded because she kissed finn on the forehead. now they're preemptively insulating themselves with as much hate as they can in case they hook up in the next movie.
>>64421210
It makes sense given the situation. Kylo Ren murdered all of the Jedi padawans so Luke erased her mind and put her on some random planet in order to protect her until she was ready to take him on.
>>64421178
I want Kylo to fuck her shit up
>>64421232
>>VIII will be a KOTOR ripoff
Nah, Rey won't turn out bad.
>>64421273
>I want Kylo to fuck her
Reminder that Rey was actually an uber-powerful dark side force babby, that Kylo Ren and his gang went rogue out of disillusionment after Luke protected her, that she was the trainee responsible for the deaths of the other apprentices, and that Luke placed her on Jakku not to protect her, but to protect the galaxy.
>>64421178
>it's pretty much confirmed
citation required
>>64421178
oh yes, because the 'training' you had when you were 5 sticks with you forever
the bitch was almost a toddler when she got dumped. She would have remembered nothing
>>64421306
pls be true
>Jedi training lets you fly the Millinium Falcon better than Han Solo
Maybe if Luke focused more on lightsaber training and less on Corellian Freighter piloting the rest of his younglings would still be alive.
>>64421178
>JJ waves his hand
>"You must accept my commands"
>"Rey is not another Disney female"
>"Pay no attention to the lack of details, details don't matter"
>>64421317
>oh yes, because the 'training' you had when you were 5 sticks with you forever
It literally does, idiot.
>>64421178
>pretty much confirmed
I hope to god your confirmation doesnt come from a series of random images that
1. Dont implicitly or explicitly show her in training
2. Dont show her actually in Luke's training camp
3. Dont implicitly or explicitly show her in any situation any place other than on Jakku
4. Doesnt implicitly or explicitly mention that she has gaps in her memory
5. Dont implicitly or explicitly say that she was anyway involved in many of the situations shown when her simply channeling events where the lightsaber was present is just as plausible an explanation.
Even IF it does turn out that she is mindwiped and actually trained, that doesnt make The Force Awakens a better film. It means the NEXT film delves deeper in to her character. A film that makes so many stumbles that the audience is just supposed to ignore because, "Oh another film explains them" is a bad film. Its like having a cliffhanger at the end of a TV season when it isnt certain the series will come back for another one.
>>64421178
Because she is a Mary Sue.
It's like Based Max Landis says "women and Blacks doesn't belong in lead roles. They belong in the kitchen and plantations"
>>64421447
what stumbles do you refer to.
>I need every aspect of everything explained to me in dialogue, this makes the film bad if it doesn't do this. I can't internalize things.
are you new to art? are you new to how the star wars movies operate? is a new hope shit because obi wan dissapears and no explanation is offered? I guess the prequels are high art because it literally explains that force is microbal particles in dialogue from what character to the other. nigger.
>>64421383
i learnt some ping pong in elementary school, I should be able to beat an olympian now right?
because thats literally what she accomplished, kylo trained with the dirce his whole life, and dont talk about the blaster hit, its still ridiculous
bitch please I bet you cant even recall the names of your playground friends when you were 5
>>64421661
with the force*
typing on shit phone
>>64421178
because everyone has watched a shitty camrip while lurking on /tv/. That's also the reason for the Kylo is a sith lord meme.
>>64421661
>bitch please I bet you cant even recall the names of your playground friends when you were 5
That's easy
>
There, done.
she is Luke
a clone also
>>64421535
>Max Landis having any authority on saying who's a Mary Sue when the kid in Chronicle is an author insert
kek
>>64421661
jacob, tommy, rory, terry, kyle, zach.
>beat an olympian
>that's literally what she accomplished
no that's literally not what she accomplished. people can train at ping pong their whole life and still suck at it. it's not like he had a lot of other force sensitive people around to hone his craft of sword fighting with.
and he was severely injured and his lightsaber was of poor quality but I guess we've decided that that shouldn't have any effect on the outcome of the fight either.
>>64421661
trained at 7 the force awakens she is stronger than any other jedi now. not a mary sue tho herp a derp.
>>64421306
It's true
All of it
>>64421379
kek
>>64421447
From my understanding, the script has some extra stuff not in the film, like Kylo Ren actually recognizes her and knows who she is.
>>64421178
Why would we be accepting of the fact that star wars has been reduced to cliches shitty animes and video games are infamous for
>amnesia, how original
next they'll do time travel
>>64421849
using that staff to fight off sand rapists every night would probably have carry over benefit in sword fighting.
>>64421616
What do you mean 'what stumbles'? Like, the bad characterisation. The thing that this thread is about.
Yes yes the spoonfeeding meme. I'm stupid because the movie didnt tell me everything slowly and clearly blah blah. Nice try, but if you start a thread to have a discussion playing dumb when someone disagrees with you isnt that way to go about it.
How about I spell it out for you and anyone else reading who was actually misled by your response.
You said certain aspects not detailed in any way in the film were "pretty much confirmed". I countered that by saying what you call 'confirmation' is actually your own biases filling in gaps so you can justify your reaction to the movie when so many others on this board disagree with you. Go back and read my post >>64421447.
If you wanna compare to your example about obi wan, the real life situation would be something like.
>obiwan simply vanishes
>people on this board post "But he clearly didnt die, he teleported! Its pretty much confirmed because he was still talking to Luke in the x-wing. Unless he can somehow talk from beyond the grave"
Now please actually explain why your assumptions about Rey's past and the very vague imagery shown in the flashback scene in Maz's dungeon confirm any of your speculation about amnesia or secret training. Even if I'm a moron missing something, you should be able to explain to me which elements are the proof you claim pretty much confirm stuff not at all implied in The Force Awakens. I got nothing better to do at the moment.
>mastered flight, jedi force skills, lightsaber forms, how to operate and repair antique ships
>by the time she was 5 and dumped on jakkoff
Is she an anime character?
>>64421943
>the flashback scene
Was it even a flashback? I thought it was the Force vision.
>>64422032
Well it was a vision of things that happened in the past
So both
confirmed Kylo Ren will turn to light side for cutie Rey
>>64421943
>pretty much confirmed
talking to different person senpai so your whole post is pointless. I'm just saying that art, especially fantasy art, intentionally leaves things quasi mystical intentionally so that the audience or reader can make his own interpretation.
my point is there is no rey should or shouldnt be this powerful based on the way the force is explained, because it's a mystical spiritual force. as a standalone movie you can interpret her powers awakening however you want, if you want to look to the other movies you can say well she has higher midichlorians or what have you. or if you want to look at it from a business perspective you can say they designed this film to appeal to feminists. it doesnt really matter.
>>64422082
What?
>>64422082
Wait
What if it was a vision of the FUTURE
>>64422082
>jabbing hilt into someone then activating it
pretty good tbqf
>>64422082
Kylo and Rey, the purest love :3
>>64422032
There's been a lot of arguments on /tv/ that it was all locked away memories and Rey was awakening to them.
>>64421248
Why couldn't Luke take Kylo Ren?
He's a whiny teenager with no ability whatsoever, taking him out should have been easy.
>>64422032
It's called a "forceback" in the script.
>>64422082
>former villain once again turns good out of love
>meanwhile an extremely powerful prodigy turns evil
POTTERY
>>64422243
maybe not with six other cunts attacking you as well.
>>64422243
Because maybe Ren's target wasn't Luke.
>>64421306
Rey is some super force sensitive mcguffin who luke adopted alongside kylo, she accidentally killed all the other jedi with her uncontrollable super force powers, luke took responsibility and kylo thought he killed them all. Luke will mention none of this to rey until kylo confronts them both and reveals it, then rey will run off distraught at the truth to not-degoba.
At that point she will have a character arc and development, as there will be emotions to overcome and character conflicts to deal with. Until then she is a mary sue who gained XP from killing bad guys and levelled up her force powers to become more strongerer. Instead the main character development of TFA was focused on finn, a retarded traitor, and kylo, the worlds strongest incel.
>>64421815
>it's not like he had a lot of other force sensitive people around to hone his craft of sword fighting with.
Yet some how this didn't hold Maul back. (The Jedi didn't know who he was until he jumped Qui-Gon.)
Didn't even really hold back Luke who did OK against Vader for having incomplete training.
But let's make this a convenient excuse any way for why Rey Sue beat a trained dark side user.
>and he was severely injured
No severely enough to alter the outcome against an untrained user who just discovered muh force.
>and his lightsaber was of poor quality
LOL WAT?
>it's a tumblr is still anal devastated that people are calling out their stronk-wymym-who-need-no-man as a shit character episode
>>64422294
Man imagine if her super force sensibility was revealed to have a downside to it, such as forming bonds that hurt her when the other person dies or is hurt for example
But nooo it just makes her awesome at everything
Fuck you disney fuck you jj and fuck you marey sue
Will they fuck?
>>64421248
/thread
makes the plot a little less retarded
>>64422362
Kylo Ren was also emotionally fucked because he had just killed his father. It's stated he feels like it made him weaker rather than stronger. Also, he clearly has a weakness for cutie Rey.
>>64422386
One of the best scenes in the film.
>>64421248
Why wouldn't he take her with him? That makes more sense.
>>64421317
>oh yes, because the 'training' you had when you were 5 sticks with you forever
What other explanation is there for your ability to form sentences and perform anything but the most basic motor skill tasks?
She could fight before the battle with Ren. The scene on Jakku where she takes out like 3 thieges with her staff, you forget about that? A lightsaber is still a melee weapon and if you are skilled eith one type of melee weapon, you can usually use most of them effectively.
>>64422386
>Kylo is in the dark
>Rey is in the light
That was the last time they spoke as friends
>>64422475
Applying Occam's razor, the explanation is that she's a fucking marie sue and JJ is a hack
I'm sorry tumblr, but your waifu is a shit character
>>64422469
Kylo Ren was looking for him. She wouldn't be safe with him.
>>64421178
The core issue is shit writing, having a character overshadowing every other because of "muh power level" isnt interesting
Explaining where "muh power level" come from doesnt even come close to fixing it, especially if it's to say "I'll say it's amnesia, it's a good trick"
>>64422362
>maul
more force sensitive better lightsaber.
was also trained under palpatine, grand imperial badass sith. we know as much about kylo's training as we do reys.
and are you forgetting that lightsaber fighting was handled completely differently in the prequels and TFA makes no reference to them?
>vader vs luke
luke was more force sensitive and had a better lightsaber?
vader was toying with him, neither were trying to completely dismantle the other.if he was, would luke be a mary sue in that case for holding his own? would that break the logic of the universe? vader was also in a really compromised state, we didn't know much about him at the time other than he's a weird maybe asshole in a robot suit. shitty vague star wars am I right.
>No severely enough to alter the outcome against an untrained user who just discovered muh force.
why not? are you a force expert? it's a mystical energy field that isn't well explained.
she's more force sensitive, had a better lightsaber and he was injured is how I understood it.
yes his lightsaber sucks, I know your camrip probably doesn't show it but the blade is unstable.
>>64422486
>Kylo tells Han he feels conflicted
>face half bathed in red light, half in blue light
>kills Han
>blue light fades and his entire face is red
Bravo Jewjew
>>64421661
She didn't beat him with the force, she beat him with her lightsaber, and for all we know she has more experience fighting than him
>>64422500
Look mate. I cant stand mary sues and i fucking hate tumblr. Rey doesnt qualify as one, because there are plausible explanations for all of her abilities and relationships with the other characters. Its not my fault you have no ability to enjoy movies.
>>64422608
That was Lucas level poetry and you know it.
>>64421178
>pretty much confirmed
Except it isn't.
>>64422662
Han falls into the blue light(i.e. embraced by the force), so it's even better
>>64421661
The ENTIRE film it's explained how fucking powerful that crossbow is (with Han constantly borrowing it and being amazed with how powerful it is). It blew the FUCK out of TWO PEOPLE with ONE SHOT. And then Kylo is hit at his kidney possibly higher, maybe puncturing a lung, but definitely ripping the shit out of Kylos stomach.
That kid is fucking destroyed from the shot. It's not ordinary blaster.
>>64422653
She's the fucking dictionary definition of a mary sue, you stupid cuck.
Retard explanations for why she's the Galaxy's Greatest Everything, doesn't make her any less of a shit OP character with no depth and no arc
>>64421178
>it's pretty much confirmed that she was trained by Luke but got her mind wiped
how has this been "pretty much confirmed"
it has barely even been implied
>>64422690
He's right. There's a plausible explanation for her fighting skills, machinary skills, and basic force usage. Piloting might be a bit of a stretch but if Anakin can take down a crucial ship when he was six then she can fly the Millenium Falcon.
>>64422718
he was shot in the dick
>>64422718
Kylo keeps punching the area where he got shot too, probably to amp himself up.
>>64422513
But she was safe starving on some desert, living off scraps?
>>64422772
yeah because she's hella force sensitive.
>>64422737
>He's
>it's a tourist thinks we can't smell samefagging episode
>>64422737
>anakin can take down a capital ship
Watch TPM again you cuck, anakin was a good podracer (way more complicated than a simple landspeeder), had a crash course in piloting with Padmé's pilot in the Naboo yacht and didn't do anything with the fighter beyond crashing into a hangar and accidentally shooting missiles at the generator
>>64422737
>if Anakin can take down a crucial ship when he was six then she can fly the Millenium Falcon.
both of those things are retarded tho
>>64422766
No, he does this to get hurt even more since the sith extracts hatred from the pain, and the dark side of the force from the hatred.
>>64422746
I watch the movie again pretty much just to make sense out of this scene, he was hit around the stomach/ribbs area
>>64422772
Yeah I can't believe Luke would abandon her in that shithole. It was probably Kylo who couldn't kill her like he killed the other padawans.
>>64422653
>because there are plausible explanations for all of her abilities and relationships with the other characters
You know that's how Mary Sue work almost all the times right?
There's alway that bullshit explanation where they were trained by historical figure and/or have a super good valid legit background explaining why their power level is over 9000 and they cant be beaten by anyone ever
>>64422784
>yes because she's a mary sue
The second movie is her training with Luke and obsessively thinking about that hot cup of chocolate that is Finn. At the end of the movie Finn comes running toward her but by passes her into the arms of Poe and the engage in a deep steam interacial kiss while Rey watches in anger. She then takes out her lightsaber and decapitates both of them. Roll Credits. The third movies scrolling text is a her tumblr blog about her blossoming lesbianism and hatred for men although shes thinking about transitioning into one.
Giving an explanation for a boring character does not make her any less boring
>>64422818
you guys really like saying that huh
>>64422243
Because he's his sisters and a good friend's son
>>64422821
She can already use the force perfectly, what can Luke even teach her?
If anything it will be her teaching Luke
>>64422833
>you guys really like stating the truth
That's some defence you got there
>>64422821
If there is going to be a romance, it's going to be between Poe and Finn.
>>64421306
Then why would Han Solo and Leia not recognize her?
>>64422690
You can't bait with an anchor
>mfw /tv/ is so stupid it has to make up its own memesplanations to understand a movie
You could argue that touch the Skywalker lightsaber unlocked her memories and gave her super special powers with the force. But how was she so good at flying the millenium falcon? Dinner was struggling with the gun and he's been trained to shoot all his life.
>>64422847
I'm serious you learned that term like a week ago after max landis posted it and can't stop saying it.
protip: all the main heroes of star wars are mary sues by the very definition of what it means, and plenty of characters from other movies fit this description too. it doesn't invalidate the film or the character.
>>64422895
She flew quad-jumpahs a lot and spent a lot of time sneaking onto the Falcon. The visual dictionary on her character explains it pretty well.
>>64422852
It's been at least 14 years since they last saw her, if they saw her at all - and Leia might have recognized her since she hugged her immediately despite not having met her before. Kylo seemed to have recognized her, or at least found her familiar.
>>64422908
No I did not, I've known what a mary sue is since much longer
The second sentence is so wrong it's actually painful to read
You are a fucking retard
>>64422908
You spend an hour and a half arguing that she's not a mary sue, now you admit she's a mary sue?
>>64422945
>No I did not, I've known what a mary sue is since much longer
sure you dick max landis dick rider, sure you did.
that's why only now does it have widespread usage on /tv/.
Didn't the flashback show her being abandoned at like 5? How much training can you do so young?
>>64422968
>Anonymous
>you
>>64422999
I don't know that little kid in the goof ball helmet in the prequels knew alot.
>>64422793
>episode
You can't even meme right redditor, no-one gives a shit about what you think
>>64422800
Cool so he blew up the ship by accident that's much better. Turn down the bitchy attitude faggot, most of us don't have the time to watch movies aimed at autistic six-year-olds.
>>64422975
>that's the best eh's got
Absolute kek
>>64423005
>you don't talk like a fag
>your shit's not all retarded
cry moar, faggot
>>64422908
>all the main heroes of star wars are mary sues
Every fucking time people attempt this desperate defense and every fucking time I get horribly debunked
>it's just another shitty Star Wars threat
When that retarded reddit spam will end? It's about time, mods. Do your fucking job.
>>64423046
>>64423050
>>64423057
continue adding nothing to the conversation and repeating your new favorite meme word, shitposting niggers.
>The First Order gets destroyed
>they'll just make a new movie with the Second Order in it
if they do that guys i kill myself
>>64422723
Ok then anon, give me an example of an explanation that would both make sense and fit with the movie. Im looking forward to this.
>anyone who disagrees with me is a cuck
>>64423101
Keep getting triggered by my new favorite memeword tumblrwhales
>>64423101
Continue being mad as fuck tumblr cuck
>>64423057
wait wut, obi wan was definitely a mary sue in TPM. he defeated maul even though he was an apprentice. they cleared this up in aotc by having dooku capturing him but that doesn't excuse the lazy writing in the first film.
>>64421772
Shut up, Mark SJWaid! You have t even written a good comic since Kingdom Come (and even that wasn't good). You and every other beta feminist needs to be put into a camp.
Max Landis is the Master Race
>drops the mic
>>64423045
>it's a tourist can't into regional argot so radiates his foreignism episode
>>64422812
>cant be beaten by anyone ever
I mean she would have gotten BTFO by Ren (whose training is still incomplete remember) if it werent for the injuries he sustained from Chewie and Finn but sure whatever mary sue herp a derp no fun allowed
kylo and rey
bro and sis
screenshot this faggots
>>64423127
>>64423134
>u mad
real human beans.
>>64423189
>kylo and rey
>bro and sis
>screenshot this faggots
this
>>64423123
She's a mary sue. JJ is a hack.
An "in world explanation" doesn't excuse a shit character, you stupid cuck.
>>64423189
And then they have sex. So progressive.
>>64422653
Plausible? No.
>Inb4 book the post
>>64423155
>Obi wan was definitely a mary sue in TPM
He was irrelevant for the entire movie except the last 10m when Guy-gone die and he edge a win against Maul, the end
Hardly the synopsis of a mary sue
>>64423228
no sex you fuckin mouthbreather
>>64423254
Incest is the key to Star Wars
>>64422746
I didn't know Tarantino is involved in Star Wars
>>64423189
I want to ship them but I know this to be true. I can atleast enjoy cute bro/sis fanarts of them.
>>64421306
and I think we have a winner. Bonus: Luke saved her because she was his daughter.
>>64423290
i like
>>64423238
he defeats maul despite maul being at full force capacity and having the high ground, that's at least crypto mary sue if not full on mary sue.
>>64423290
>I want to ship them
not sure what that means
>>64423101
>Being this #REKT
>>64423220
You... didnt even try to answer my question. You goddamn drooling retard.
>>64423290
Kissing a sibling is okay tho
>>64423290
they're cousins tho
>>64422589
>>maul
>more force sensitive better lightsaber.
More excuses, better wish fulfillment.
>was also trained under palpatine, grand imperial badass sith.
Isn't Snoke really Plagueis?
>and are you forgetting that lightsaber fighting was handled completely differently in the prequels and TFA makes no reference to them?
Don't you know the price of tea in China?
REY HAD ZERO TRAINING! There is no overcoming that. There is no excusing it. She is Mary Sue. Period.
>>No severely enough to alter the outcome against an untrained user who just discovered muh force.
>why not? are you a force expert? it's a mystical energy field that isn't well explained.
Everyone...even the chosen one Anakin...had to go through extensive training to develop skills as a lightsaber duelist. She closes her eyes, wishes upon a star...I mean the force...and kicks Kylo's ass.
M A R Y
S
U
E
>yes his lightsaber sucks, I know your camrip probably doesn't show it but the blade is unstable.
No indication what so ever that this would impact a saber duel.
>>64423349
shhhh I know. mary sue mary sue tumblr sjw reddit I know shh
>>64421178
>dumped on a planet at 3 years old
>but she was like totally trained and stuff
STFU
>>64423354
His point is that there's no coherent way to explain it, which is why the Mary Sue label is being applied.
>tfw you will never be Kylo Ren with a qt imouto to save you from the dark side
>>64423387
>Please stop bullying my waifu
>>64423427
>>64423346
it means I want them to fuck
>>64423387
>being this asshurt
Is pic related you?
>>64423391
This is correct. The actress who played young Rey is four years old.
Definitely not trained by Luke.
MaRey Sue confirmed.
>>64421178
>Luke becomes a Jedi master over the course of 3 movies and he's bretty gud at dogfights
>Rey becomes one over the course of the movie despite barely being able to take a few thugs at the beginning and she's a tech master too but lolamnesia she was a force kid all along
That said, it's a fantasy movie for children, so it's not really worth proper analysis
>>64423454
oh lol
well I stand by my statement
they are siblings
no fucking
>>64421178
That actually makes her even more of a Mary Sue, not less.
>>64423382
>More excuses, better wish fulfillment.
reasonable explanation given the prequels desire to explain force powers like it's a blood pressure reading.
>REY HAD ZERO TRAINING
calm down senpai. she had a bow staff that she used to fight off rapists, that would help her swing a stick around, ren was shot in the dick with a wookie harpoon and we know little about his training, or if he had any.
>even the chosen one anakin
not even adressed like canon in TFA. no mention of it.
>training as a lightsaber duelists
they're handling that as if the prequels never happened so the jedi academy bullshit is irrelevant.
>no indication that this would impact a saber duel.
why not? the "blade" didn't look as sturdy.
>>64423403
What exactly is incoherent about it?
We see firsthand evidence of her melee combat skills.
She would have had some experience flying, and has knowledge of the falcon prior to the scene where she flies it.
Her fight with Ren is impacted by his injuries and emotional state. He also isnt interested in fighting her until she picks up the lightsaber and is probably trying not to kill her, possibly because he has a prior familial bond to her or just wants her on his side.
>>64423354
Are you a literal fucking potato?
I'm not the fucking writer of the fucking flick, you stupid cuck.
She's the Galaxy's Greatest Everything because JJ is a mary-sue-writing hack. There is no in-world explanation as of NOW, and IF an explanation is given in future flicks it won't matter because an "in-world explanation" DOESN'T EXCUSE A SHIT CHARACTER.
>>64423503
Sure it is, and if you think otherwise you're an idiot.
Children deserve quality too, even more so than adults. Just look at how you turned out. You're an idiot and its because you were raised on garbage that people said "well we don't have to think about it because it's for kids."
>>64423516
>they are siblings
>no fucking
You're such a no fun puritan, holy shit
>>64421178
Anyone trying to mind wipe her would have had to fight a thirty minute long lightsaber battle with a three year old Rey before having the mind wipe reversed back onto them.
The abandonment story is likely a cunning backstory she came up with in case anyone came looking for her, and landed on the planet via the Millennium Falcon that she won in a card game and then sold it to the ration guy for a house and a bike.
No she gets to become a tutor to Luke Skywalker.
>>64423535
>being this ass blasted about your shit opinion
Go outside anon, its a beautiful day
>>64423516
At this point, I just want them to be together because I think they are qt. I don't care if it's only as brother/sister
>>64422908
Nah, man. We frequently use the term on /a/, especially when talking about Kirito.
>>64423477
The fuck is going on in that webm?
I gotta know man. Source, something
>>64421447
>Doesnt implicitly or explicitly mention that she has gaps in her memory
I think that was both implicitly and explictly mentioned in the film
>>64423626Posession (1981)
>>64423646Thanks you're the best
>>64423161
Why are so many people so fucking pissed off that Max Landis had an opinion? I'm not even a huge fan of the guy but Jesus Christ I underestimated just how many people are going against him for his very correct opinion.
Incidentally I don't think adolescent girls are gonna really give a shit about Rey in a few years. The memorable female characters for real girls are usually much more traditionally feminine and "female." Taking traditionally masculine heroic traits and implanting them into a woman is a nice meme, but it only ever "really" panders to a niche crowd that'll eventually get smaller and smaller as the years go on.
>>64423529
Youre wasting your time. These basement dwellers will cling onto their meme word for as long as they like, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.
>>64423656np senpai
>>64423586
>Rey is the true villain of the Star Wars franchise
>>64423529
>>More excuses, better wish fulfillment.
>reasonable explanation
Just stop. There is no reasonable explanation for how JJ fucked up her character. This is Disney princess wish fulfillment. She literally wishes upon the force like it was a cartoon with a princess wishing upon a fucking star.
>calm down senpai. she had a bow staff that she used to fight off rapists,
Oh, well, that explains every fucking thing. Now I understand how she piloted the MF like an Ace: she had a doll of a pilot that she played with.
>and we know little about his training, or if he had any.
Yeah...he can only freeze blaster bolts mid air, deflect blaster bolts with ease (Luke couldn't do this before RoTJ), freeze people in motion, and and pull information from people's minds. He probably never even knew Luke. Snokes probably picked him up at a gas station or something.
>>even the chosen one anakin
>not even adressed like canon in TFA. no mention of it.
It's canon.
>>training as a lightsaber duelists
>they're handling that as if the prequels never happened so the jedi academy bullshit is irrelevant.
But ESB is and it clearly takes tremendous training in the force before you can effectively use a lightsaber. Luke could not deflect blaster shots on Bespin. He had less training at that point then Kylo in TFA. But "when you wish upon a star...makes no difference who you are..."
>>no indication that this would impact a saber duel.
>why not? the "blade" didn't look as sturdy.
Did it break? Bend? Nope.
Most likely some that would mean she had to have learned all those advanced force techniques as a very you've child.
>>64423532
>Her fight with Ren is impacted by his injuries and emotional state. He also isnt interested in fighting her until she picks up the lightsaber and is probably trying not to kill her, possibly because he has a prior familial bond to her or just wants her on his side.
this, snoke told him implicitly to bring her to him. if he was going straight for the kill he wouldn't have banted with her for so long.
>>64421248
Naw dude, Kylo left her there. Luke thinks she's dead. What good-guy parent would do that?
>>64423601
Now this would be visually striking, rather than the dumb way in which the battle and particularly this moment was filmed.
>>64423699
ooooooooooooooo
nice twist
>>64423601
>tfw you just want to train your qt imouto but she thinks you are a meanie
>>64423662
I suppose the argument is that many of those 'traditionally masculine' things dont really have any reason to continue being seen as exclusively masculine.
The things that people like most about Rey aren't even her abilities. They like her relationship with Finn and how she interacts with the OT characters
>mind wipe
I think Rey is a qtp2t and I would drink her bathwater etc but this mindwipe shit has to go. You're reaching so hard you might as well jerk me off
>>64423753
>>tfw you just want to train your qt imouto but she thinks you are a meanie
jdimsa
>>64423601
UN
FUCKING
LIMITED
POTTERY
>>64423598
>opinion
I'm not the one trying to concoct fanfic explanations to handwave shit writing in blockbusters, cuck.
>>64422213
Why would she have any memory of the Cloud City lightsaber duel? She didn't exist then.
>>64423753
>their faces
>"notice me imouto chan!"
>"nigga wat who the fuck are you?"
>>64423690
>Just stop. There is no reasonable explanation for how JJ fucked up her character. This is Disney princess wish fulfillment. She literally wishes upon the force like it was a cartoon with a princess wishing upon a fucking star.
you're so mad you lost track of the argument. I was talking specifically about maul possibly having a higher force power since the only movie he's in they mention midichlorians and how force powers can be read with a blood test. if we're following that movies logic rey could conceivably have a "higher midichlorian count" than kylo.
>explains everything
explains why she could hold her own in a sword fight with a severely disadvantaged opponent who was probably not trying to disarm her since his boss wanted her brought to him.
>it's canon.
they make no reference to the prequels in TFA.
anakin is the mary sue to end all mary sues.
>ESB is and it clearly takes tremendous training in the force before you can effectively use a lightsaber.
Luke spins it around and deflects blasts from that droid in a new hope like it;s nothing. WITH a blaster shield on that he couldn't see through, just after some gentle prodding by obi wan
>did it break? bend? Nope.
I'm just saying that it is a possibility. doesn't matter if it's as effective or not imo.
I just realized, as much as a darth Vader wannabe/worshipper that kylo is and how he tried so hard, why doesn't he recognize the lightsaber in the end, or doesn't it even matter?
>>64423120
I hope they do it then.
>>64421210
Rofl
Sometimes I forget how quick witted some you are
>>64423892
subtle
>>64423502
9 year old Anakin's was deemed "too old" to begin training.
>>64423973
I try senpai i try lol
She's fanfic-grade Mary Sue.
"My character is named Rey. She has a mysterious past, but she's probably a girl who was trained by Luke Skywalker until bad guys killed the Jedi but she got away and Luke wiped her memory and left her on a planet. She's totally good at fighting, at fixing things, at flying, and even the Force. Every boy character loves her upon first sight. Even Han Solo, who is usually surly and mean, is totally impressed by her when it turns out she knows more about the Millennium Falcon then he does *giggle!* Han even asks her to join his crew, but she turns him down because she's that cool. She gets caught by the bad guy, but then she totally turns the Force against him, and then mind controls a guard to let her out and get her a gun (even though the boy characters come to rescue her, she doesn't need their help and winds up rescuing them teehee)! Then she completely beats Kylo Ren, who has been training with the Force and lightsabers for thirty years, in a lightsaber fight! She even finds Luke and he's totally impressed by her!"
Only way you could make her a bigger Mary Sue is if she was also a Gryffindor. Jesus H. Christ.
>>64421210
>let's have the villain be the hero's father, that's a good twist!
come on georgie
>>64423120
I prefer second order differential equations to first order differential equations anyway
>>64424053
I'll have to double check but I think at the time it was relatively unheard of.
>>64424050
I just don't get why you guys are so mad.
>>64421178
So being trained as a kid and having your mind wiped, forgetting the abilities for most of your life, should let them be second nature as if you were training the whole time?
Still breaks canon
>>64423871
>you're so mad you lost track of the argument.
>said by the guy throwing shit fanfic explanations out for a mary sue
>if we're following that movies logic rey could conceivably have a "higher midichlorian count" than kylo.
So life long saber training from the prequels is non canon, but midi counts are? Whew lad.
>>explains everything
>explains why she could hold her own in a sword fight
>a staff is a sword
>smacking rapists in the face with a staff is dueling with sabers
Nope.
>with a severely disadvantaged opponent
Kylo wasn't at a disadvantage.
>>it's canon.
>they make no reference to the prequels in TFA.
It's canon. And even if it wasn't canon ESB shows the same thing: it takes a lot of time and effort to master a light saber.
>anakin is the mary sue to end all mary sues.
It took him two movies to obtain the powers Rey Sue had after wishing upon a star.
>>ESB is and it clearly takes tremendous training in the force before you can effectively use a lightsaber.
>Luke spins it around and deflects blasts from that droid in a new hope like it;s nothing.
>being taught and guided by Jedi Master
>under calm conditions, not while life is threatened
>still gets shot in the ass
>"like it's nothing"
Maybe you better watch A New Hope 1.0: The Version Before JJ. And ESB 1.0: JJ Gonna Copy This Next. Luke could not deflect real blaster shots in cloud city. TFA Kylo > ESB Luke.
Rey Sue > Yoda and Sheev combined when she closes her eyes and says "the force!"
>mary sue...mary sue...strong independent pretty mary sue...
>>64424050
Basically. This can be a good pasta.
>>64423892
He recognized the fuck out of it.
"THAT LIGHTSABER. BELONGS TO ME!"
>>64424090
>raping childhood memories for sjw's and profits
>"i just don't understand why you guys are so mad"
Imagine a director makes a movie about Jane Austen. Only she's a vapid valley girl slut who does gang bang porno.
It's kind of like that.
>>64424090
I'm not upset. I just find the whole thing kinda funny and I'm just having a laugh out of how poorly written the whole thing was.
If I'm going to be honest, I actually kinda liked the movie and Rey, but that doesn't make her any less of a Mary Sue because she is a total Mary Sue.
>>64424175
>raping childhood memories
You take this the Starwars stuff too seriously. It's easier to enjoy it when you don't really care all that much.
>>64424100
>said by the guy throwing shit fanfic explanations
wew lad indeed. reading midichlorians with a blood test is george's fanfic. you brought up darth maul and his saber wielding ability to draw parallels to ren and I offered an explanation.
>Nope.
I think it would help and there would be some carry over. guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't think ren was going for the KO anyway. he could have just force pushed her again if he wanted.
>Kylo wasn't at a disadvantage.
crossbow shot. finn got a hit on him. he was bleeding. how is he not at a disadvantage?
>it takes a lot of time and effort to master a lightsaber.
not according to A new hope, all it takes is a jedi to tell you to chill out and use your feelings.
>it took him two movies
we don't see any of his training, he could have picked up force powers very quickly for all we know.
>still gets shot in the ass. once, and then deflects three blasts after that. BLIND.
>being taught and guided by Jedi Master
all he says is use your feelings.
>under calm conditions, not while life is threatened.
is that canonically the best and only way jedi techniques and saber fighting can be learned? I can do this all day.
>>64424100
>the prequels are canon but reading midichlorians with blood tests arent canon
>>64423715
>rather than the dumb way in which the battle and particularly this moment was filmed.
It was filmed just fine. Jesus, the shit people choose to nitpick with regards to TFA.
>>64424304
Sorry the thread where you tried to bait people by calling Luke a Mary Sue for deflecting those three lasers didn't work out. It wasn't a very good trollpost, though.
>>64424304
He clearly was shown not to be disadvantaged when fighting Finn
>>64422737
>stupid thing happened in bad movie
>so now this other stupid thing in this movie is not bad at all!
fuck any of you who use the prequels to defend shit writing in TFA
>>64422833
>you guys really like applying a fitting term to a character
well yeah
>>64423028
>prequels are shit
>but using the same stupid shit in this movie makes it a good movie!
>>64421178
If that's true then that's still dumb because that means she was somehow able to learn all of her force powers and be better than kylo at it in almost every conceivable way at the age of a toddler, because she was dropped off at Jakku when she was like, 6, even though kylo supposedly trained with luke for years
How is that not a Mary Sue? That's insane
That also rehashes the dumb prequel idea that jedi are trained literally as 4 year olds
>>64424492
even when it doesn't fit apparently
>>64424373
>finn clearly was shown not be force sensitive unlike rey and he still got a hit on him
>>64424304
>reading midichlorians with a blood test is blah blah, blah blah blah, blah blah
She's a Mary Sue.
>>Kylo wasn't at a disadvantage.
>crossbow shot.
He was walking and moving fine. It hurt, but pain increases dark side power. (Which is why he was hitting himself.) Only way this would put him at a disadvantage is if it harmed his mobility which it clearly did not.
>finn got a hit on him.
Yeah...ABOUT THAT. Untrained duelist who can't even wish upon the force...should have been dead within 30s if not 15s. But then #BLM would have protested the movie.
>he was bleeding. how is he not at a disadvantage?
Could you kick a UFC champion's ass thanks to a little bleeding?
>>it takes a lot of time and effort to master a lightsaber.
>not according to A new hope, all it takes is a jedi to tell you to chill out and use your feelings.
Really? Luke was a master duelist in ANH? That's your excuse now?
>>it took him two movies
>we don't see any of his training, he could have picked up force powers very quickly for all we know.
Did you even see ESB?
>When you wish upon the Force
>Makes no difference who you are of course
>Any lightsaber your heart desires
>Will come to you
>If your saber made you dream
>No Sith Lord is too extreme
>When you wish upon the Force
>Like dreamers do
>Disney is kind
>She brings to those who love
>The sweet wish fulfillment of
>Their Mary Sue longing
>Like a Sith bolt out of the blue
>Fate steps in and pulls you through
>When you wish upon the Force
>Your feminist super character comes true
>>64424543
>a wound is worse when you fight a force sensitive
He was also shown not to have any trouble btfoing her until she unlocked her mary sue powers
>>64424557
>blah blah fanfiction reasons
lol ok
The reason is less important. It's the very fact that she's a burning one man Force with the right skills at the right time who needs no help from any man and is loved by all beings large and small.
>JJ writes a crapfest of plotholes and cliches
>Abandons doing sequels
>Someone else now has to scoop up all this shit
>Copies ideas from /tv/ since hollywood is hack trash
>Sequels are actually good and redeem the franchise for the first time in 32 years
It just occurred to me that Satele Shan had more character development in the video game movie from Star Wars The Old Republic then Rey had in TFA.
>JJ
>JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP
The new hit Comedy
Everybody Loves Rey
>>64424540
>I don't know what Mary Sue means
>better argue with everyone using the term
Let's forget for a minute I never stated wether or not I liked or disliked Rey as a character, or even stated my opinion on the movie.
Let's get the "defending the movie bias" just out of the way.
YOU tell me the definition of Mary Sue.
You tell me it's anything else than a young/inexperienced person overcoming any obstacle in her way through either unrealistic/unexplained, or even poorly written/explained, means.
Because that's exactly what Rey is.
Wether or not it's bad is another argument entirely.
>>64424602
>needs no help from any man
>clearly asks Luke to help her
>>64424652
The lightsaber fights in those trailers were the perfect mix of Prequel Flippery and OT Realism
It's a shame the game is such a piece of garbage
>>64424557
>blah blah blah the prequels are canon, anakin being the chosen one is canon, but midichlorian force reading isn't canon because it doesn't help my argument.
ok. is this you conceding? are we done?
>pain increases dark side power
nice fanfic.
>UFC champions ass
you're drawing parallels that don't make sense. there isn't a world wide jedi dueling federation.
>really?
I'd say deflecting bolts gracefully blindfolded is pretty impressive.
it's almost as if he has a natural grasp of the force. it's almost like rey does too.
nice song senpai.
>>64424575
>Rey has instant Force wish powers
>"hurr durr arguing she's a Mary Sue using fanfic reasons"
Wat?
>>64424684
>young/inexperienced person overcoming any obstacle in her way through either unrealistic/unexplained
Only the force, which she uses exactly four times.
wow
much mary sue
>>64421661
>kylo ren
>an olympian-level force user
>>64424050
Nice pasta material, I'll take it lad
>teehee
I chuckled, thank you
>>64424557
>He was walking and moving fine. It hurt, but pain increases dark side power. (Which is why he was hitting himself.) Only way this would put him at a disadvantage is if it harmed his mobility which it clearly did not.
We never saw him fight uninjured, we have no idea to what extent it hurt his ability, common sense would suggest that it severely hindered him, so we'll go with that until we have something better to go by
>>64424688
Aw great, he's gonna give the Mary Sue another power up.
>>64424729
>Only the force, which she uses exactly four times.
and is able to use with such competence and efficiency that she can outperform and completely overpower another force user at it, in spite of the fact that said force user trained under Luke for years and she just realized the force was real ten minutes ago
>>64424729
An anon with your mental gymnastics could even argue Batman's not a Gary Stu.
Holy shit.
Double amnesia. She is Revan and trained by Luke.
>>64424684
>You tell me it's anything else than a young/inexperienced person overcoming any obstacle in her way through either unrealistic/unexplained, or even poorly written/explained, means.
A Mary Sue is somebody who's introduced into a previously existing fictional universe and is able to upstage every existing character thus far, usually while gaining the approval/praise of those characters. They're usually unnaturally talented, related to major previously established characters by blood or friendship, and exhibit several traits that - while not unreasonable in-universe - are "unique" to them. A clear sign of a Mary Sue is that their only "flaw" is actually a strength. These characters are often author self-inserts for the purpose of wish-fulfillment fanfiction.
That's my definition, didn't copy it from anywhere.
You're right - Rey IS a Mary Sue, but your definition of the term is super wrong.
>>64422687
also right when Kylo handed his saber to Han, the sun went down making it dark, then he killed him. POTTERY
>>64424175
>>raping childhood memories for sjw's and profits
Facebook tier post
Someone in the movie mentions how Luke used to train young Jedi but quit and went into hidong out of shame when something went wrong with one. Everyone thought it was Kylo but it's actually Rey. It's just that her memory got erased.
At the beginning of the second movie, Luke is not gonna want to talk to Rey and will tell her to gtfo, mark my words.
Movie posters are a hint, Rey's weapon is aligned with the red lightsaber while nigga is holding the blue one.
>>64424765
>competence and efficiency that she can outperform and completely overpower another force user at it
What the actual fuck are you talking about? The only time she uses it "against" Ren is when he attempts to extract info from her mind which shows nothing except she has a stronger mind; which, canonically, non-force using characters have used to withstand force persuasion.
>>64424783
Explain what she's inexperienced at besides the Force which you can still somewhat easily explain
>>64424851
Same thing happening on the second poster.
>>64424873
>>64424851
oh shit
>>64424861
she not only overpowers him mentally, but is also better at telekinesis at him and wins at a lightsaber tug-o-war with the force pull
keep in mind that this is a guy who can literally freeze a blaster bolt in mid air
>>64424695
>>blah blah blah the prequels are canon, anakin being the chosen one is canon, but midichlorian force reading isn't canon because it doesn't help my argument.
>MUH STRAWMAN!
The prequels are canon. All of it. Even the shit we hate.
But midi counts do not allow Maul to be a good duelist with no previous real fights while Kylo got his ass kicked by Mary...er...Rey because he had no previous real fights. Bringing them up and pretending they might save your Sue is the definition of a fanfic excuse.
>>pain increases dark side power
>nice fanfic.
So you've literally never seen Episodes I-VI?
>>UFC champions ass
>you're drawing parallels that don't make sense. there isn't a world wide jedi dueling federation.
Let me throw you a slow ball. Make sure it doesn't go over your head: a little bleeding does not disable a highly trained opponent in combat.
>>really?
>I'd say deflecting bolts gracefully blindfolded is pretty impressive.
Luke could not control it and repeat it at will until Jedi. Which is why he was hiding behind corners on Bespin. He didn't want to get his ass shot off.
Kylo was taunting Mary...darn it...Rey as she fired at him over and over again. He had no problem deflecting every blast.
TFA Kylo > ESB Luke
But TFA Mary Sue >>>>>>>>> Everyone
>>64424793
But didn't you just write the same thing as him, just using more words?
I'd argue a Mary Sue is just an overly competent character due to poor writing. No use to list 50 examples of Mary Sue traits in your definition of the term.
>>64421306
Then why does he privately whinge about fearing the light side of the force?
>>64424737
>freezes blaster bolts mid air
>freezes opponents mid stride
>confidently deflects blaster shots
>can read detailed information from people's minds
>oh yeah...killed Luke's new Jedi class
>
>he's clearly a fucking amateur
>>64424851
>memory got erased
based on what evidence?
>>64424851
Thought I wouldn't catch you slippin huh Disney
>>64424748
>We never saw him fight uninjured, we have no idea to what extent it hurt his ability,
It did not impair his movement, therefore it did not harm his abilities as a duelist.
And as someone else said above: he was kicking her ass until she got her ForceWish powers. So whatever impact it had, it clearly was not an impact that mattered. It's not the reason Mar...Rey was able to beat him.
>>64424861
She should be inexperienced at speaking wookie.
>>64424901
>but is also better at telekinesis at him and wins at a lightsaber tug-o-war with the force pull
Prefacing with Disney has the right to pull whatever from the EU they want and make it canon again.
If they're going with the EU explanation (that the sabers are basically like Harry Potter wands and are "bonded" with, and choose, their user) then it does make sense.
Now you can have all the issues with that you want, as I do, but it's still an explanation that, by the rules of the Star Wars universe, works.
>>64424955
>It's true
>all of it
>>64424948
Of her being a talent out of nowhere and Luke looking like he just shat his pants when he saw her.
>>64424901
Based on the fact that the lightsaber called out to Rey, I'm more keen to see that 'tug of war' as the lightsaber rejecting Kylo and flying to Rey, who snatches it out of the air.
>>64421178
She wouldn't be a Mary Sue if she wasn't trained by Luke. If she is one then Luke is a Gary Stu.
> A Mary Sue or Gary Stu or Marty Stu is an idealized fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often but not necessarily this character is recognized as an author insert and/or wish-fulfillment.
From Wikipedia.
Also...
> complaining about unrealistic abilities in a franchise full of telekinesis
>>64424979
Fair enough. You got me on that one.
>>64424948
Massive speculation and headcanon.
>>64425005
>the lightsaber rejecting Kylo
>>64425005
What a special person she is.
