Let's face it: Rey is no different from Luke or Anakin except that she's a girl.
>little boy Anakin is a genius, super strong with the Force for no reason besides being "the Chosen One", concieved by midichlorians etc. Only human who can podrace, beats Sebulba, steals a ship and fucks up a mini Death Star by himself.
>grows up to be alpha male Jedi who wins the heart of the Queen of Naboo, gets so horny he turns to the Dark Side.
>Luke is a dumb farm boy who grows up on a desert planet, somehow is strong with the Force, blows up the Death Star using the Force on his first try. Eventually kicks Vader's ass, resists the temptation of the Dark Side to the very end unlike Anakin.
>Rey is a scavenger girl on a desert planet, happens to know how to fix things and fly ships because she's surrounded by them, knows how to fight because the planet is dangerous. Turns out to be powerful as hell in the Force (just like Anakin).
So how is she a Mary Sue compared to Luke or Anakin?
Because she's a woman who doesn't spend all her screen time half-naked lusting for cock.
>>64406781
I like riling people up two but subtlety is key son. Anikins right. Cheers.
>>64406781
Mark hamill had more personality and flaws and anakin got explained by some plot device. She has literally no other characteristic outside of being super awesome.
All of these movies are poorly written and simplistic adventure movies that only became famous due to how revolutionary the special effects were, star wars is just the same as avatar
Let's face it. It was a pretty decent movie and most people enjoyed it.
Including you. And me.
>>64406781
http://whatculture.com/film/12-reasons-star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-a-disappointment.php
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hQVlRgFlU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDjXJqdXD-I&feature=youtu.be&t=39m26s
>>64406781
>no different from Anakin
yeah he was Space Jesus she's the second coming
>no different from Luke
I don't think so, Tim
>>64406781
>Luke barely wins any fight through the whole OT and loses a hand
>Anakin loses a hand and falls to the darkside
>Rey, literally curbstomps the big bad 20 mins after meeting him
WEW LAD
>>64407053
Vader wasn't a mentally unstable babby who just took a bowcaster bolt to the gut and was also infinitely stronger.
>>64406781
The only people drawing attention to the fact that she's a girl and making a big fucking deal about it are people like you, which is to say, not any weird shadow faction of "MRAs" or anti-feminists. You. You create your own problems. Now shut the fuck up.
>>64407053
this trilogy is where we see Kylo rise higher in the dark side until he conquers the galaxy by the end. this will set up a new protagonist for episodes x through xii
anyone else think hayden always seemed autistic in the prequel movies?
>>64406781
>Eventually
this is key
I'm proud of myself for managing to remain restrained in the face of such tremendous bait
>>64407053
THIS
>>64406781
>Anakin doesn't develops Force Powers just because he saw Qui Gon or Obi-wan perform them. Throughout the movie we only see his potential attunement with the Force through his incredible reflexes and intuition.
>He has to undergo a decade of training to become a full fledged Jedi Knight even though he's a prodigy. Because he's a prodigy he's careless, overconfident and a whiny bitch, especially towards his master. Anakin also has a severe character flaw, underlined throughout the three movies: he fears not to be in control and not be able to save those he loves, and repeatedly does stupid shit because of it.
>Luke is a dumb, whiny farm boy who loves to race with his redneck friends on their ships, and for several years has been planning to join the imperial forces so he can become a pilot. He doesn't because he has to help his uncles with their moist farm, and deep down he feels like those are impossible dreams. After he meets Obi-wan and learns the truth he has a very fast training section and sees glimpses of what a Force user is capable of. By the end of that movie he uses his innate powers to time his shot correctly, nothing else. He never uses any Force powers and barely attempts to use the lightsaber.
How can you honestly tell me they're all the same?
>little boy Anakin is supposed to be a genius but we never see him do anything but Pod Race, which seems like a literal redneck past time any idiot could do. Even after training for years he can't do shit but levitate a pear and twirl his lightsaber around super fast, but not fast enough to avoid getting his arm lopped off by a Count.
>Luke is a dumb farm boy who does fuck all in the whole first film but blow up the Death Star, which was essentially as hard as shooting a womprat. He gets his shit handed to him in the second film. The third film he only wins because Vader saves him.
>Rey has no training and beats a Sith Lord on her first duel.
>>64407211
>Kylo
>Sith Lord
No.
>>64407053
Kylo isn't Anakin's equivalent. He's closer to Luke, he wants to be a Sith Lord of the Galaxy like Anakin, but he's not nearly as powerful with the force or as well trained. Whereas Rey is more like Anakin, extremely strong with the force. It's also said that she used the dark side of the force to beat the injured Ren, but she just resisted it long enough not to kill Kylo.
>>64407211
>blow up the Death Star, which was essentially as hard as shooting a womprat
Yeah, sure that's why he needed to use the fucking FORCE to do what nobody else could. The literally who farmboy who has never flown an X-Wing pilots it perfectly and makes a shot nobody else could.
>>64407412
>makes a shot nobody else could.
source for this claim? only one other guy took the shot and he almost made it
>>64407643
Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope.
Watching The Force Awakens for a second time was nice
People who are shitting on it are either autistic or trolling
>>64406781
I think a lot of it's just new generation stuff. People don't want to see the MC's get their ass kicked anymore. Compare Mad Max 1/2 to Fury Road. Max got his ass kicked in 1/2 and everyone was fine with it because it added to the tension. Now he gets his ass in Fury Road and it's unacceptable and it must be FEMINISM.
Who's the last action movie hero who got hurt in a way that made you wince?
>>64407753
Luke specifically says that the shot is not so hard
>>64407859
I guess that's why he couldn't make it without using the Force. Must really have been easy.
>>64407813
John Wick.
>>64406781
This is bait, but I'll respond anyway.
First, Anakin in the first movie was 100% a Mary Sue. He's there for the express purpose of giving children someone to relate to as that was Lucas' target audience for some reason. The audience hated him though.
Anakin past the first film was not a Mary Sue. He was very skilled, yes, but at that point he'd had considerable training. Also he was really unsettling to watch and felt all around creepy. He was impulsive and whiny which are two big character flaws.
Luke sucked at everything he did and constantly had to be saved by other people. Even his final confrontation with the Emperor was a loss till Vader stepped in. His Death Star run was aided by his previously stated ability to pilot, and a decent culmination to learning the basics of the force: Get small ball into small hole. Luke is disliked by most people he meets and has character flaws.
Rey is like Anakin in the first movie. She does things effortlessly on the first try or learns at a pace far beyond anything believable. She's loved and trusted by everyone she meets, and can do things better than everyone else. The only thing that makes her worse than Anakin in Episode I is that the movie focuses on her a lot more.
Mary Sue is not a catch all for the main character. It's a moniker for character who are literally perfect and have no flaws and frequently no personality. They're pants for the viewer to put on and imagine themselves in the universe.
tl;dr Episode I Anakin and Rey are Mary Sues, Luke and Episode II & III are not.
>>64407053
Do you ever wake up wondering why you're a 30 year old virgin neckbeard still living with your parents?
>>64407053
When did that happen in Phantom menace?
>>64407813
Honestly, it isn't so much as violence against men. We see men get their asses kicked all the time.
It's some unspoken rule that when a female is the main lead of an action movie, she can't get her ass kicked as hard as a male does. She's not allowed to look like she's been through some hardship at all.
Look at all the recent female action movie protagonists, they get hurt, but they never get hurt as much as a male lead.
The exception is when they're an evil character, but you still see them go down too clean compared to a male villain
Film makers should take some notes from anime once in a while, women protagonists get equal opportunity BTFO
>>64408127
He's a fucking kid in the first one
Good luck giving meaningful character development to a fucking child
>>64408177
They did. He made c3po and redefined what it meant to be podracing
>>64408078
>your average reyfag
> Can read trained apprentice's mind
> Can resist trained apprentice's mind read
> Mastered the Jedi Mind Trick in 1 try (no hand wave even!)
> Defeated a sith in a lightsaber duel
Can we just call mary sue a Jedi already or does she still need "training"?
>>64407053
>Comparing a trilogy's worth of character development for two characters to one movie of character development shared with other characters.
>>64408265
>Blaming me for JJ's mistakes
plot twist: she's anakin's force reincarnation or someshit
it literally makes a lot of sense.
>>64406981
did anakin do any of that in the first movie? fuck no.
>>64408236
> Can resist trained apprentice's mind read
> Can read trained apprentice's mind
He made himself vulnerable immediately after she shut him out mentally. Also it's been established multiple times he wasn't fully trained.
> Mastered the Jedi Mind Trick in 1 try (no hand wave even!)
It took 2 tries, but that's the only point you have.
> Defeated a sith in a lightsaber duel
What sith? There wasn't a sith in the movie. He barely qualified as a sith apprentice.
Are you a retard who thinks sith = red light saber?
>>64407999
>First, Anakin in the first movie was 100% a Mary Sue.
Luke is about to have his insides turned to soup by sandpeople when ob1 finds him. Lukes character needs training to develop, its even part of the plot of tesb.
>>64408137
I think Emily Blunt got a harder ass kicking in Sicario than I've seen in any other 2015 film. It's a completely different feeling though. Watching a little girl get beat up is just kind of sad
>>64408361
>He made himself vulnerable immediately after she shut him out mentally. Also it's been established multiple times he wasn't fully trained.
And she hasn't been trained at all.
>muh mindwipe
It's fanfiction at this point, and even if it is true, there's no fucking way the training she got as a toddler is more complete than what Kylo has received throughout his 30 years of life.
>>64406981
ANH is simple but by no means is it poorly written
>>64408236
Yeah. That was some lazy writing. Not once do you feel Rey is in actual danger as she just casually gets out of everything.
>>64408461
>Muh mindwipe
Nobody even mentioned the retarded Kojima hypnosis shit. She overpowered him because he's weaker in the force than her. Which I can understand since she has more will than he does.
>there's no fucking way the training she got as a toddler is more complete than what Kylo has received throughout his 30 years of life.
Kylo started his training late as fuck canonically because his connection to the force was weak. Yes he has had more training than her but keep in mind his mental strength is weak as fuck compared to a girl that's practically been living as a monk for her entire life.
>>64408236
>> Mastered the Jedi Mind Trick in 1 try (no hand wave even!)
What's Rey's mitachlorian count? Anakin had the highest ever recorded and he couldn't just randomly perform Jedi tricks.
>>64408647
>What's Rey's mitachlorian count?
They didn't mention that at all in this movie and I'm pretty sure they might just retcon that out right.
>>64406781
Luke failed a million times and literally everyone was better than him at first.
Rey knows fucking everything and can do everything.
Everyone hated anakin and mocked the jesus metaphor shit. You are literally proving the opposite by bringing up anakin.
Luke had flaws and didn't completely overshadow han.
>>64408758
This. Luke was a complete failure when he rescued the princess and then destroyed the Deathstar and became the hero. What a travesty he was.
>>64408826
oh you are right.
I am just realizing how much of a Mary Sue luke was.
I mean he beat vader in the first movie, right? Without ever having hold a lightsaber.
He learns to use the force and is stronger than vader over the course of one movie without any training.
>>64408758
>Overstating the battles that luke lost.
>Forgetting that It's literally been one movie for Rey
I'd agree with you if she had 3 movies worth of development at this point. But she doesn't. She has plenty of room to fuck up.
Honestly just place Rey in ANH or Empire and you see how different it is.
can you imagine her just running away after vader kill obi-wan?
Can you imagine her being thrown around for two movies before training for years to finally beat vader?
No. She in ANH would just run and beat vader after obi-wan dies. She wouldn't need lightsaber training or force training. she is already the best.
>>64408915
oh boy, it's that guy who thinks that kylo ren and darth vader have the same power level again
>>64408915
We're talking about the first movies here, senpai. It wouldn't be fair the compare Luke's character over 3 movies when Rey has only had 1.
>>64408930
They failed by having her learn the Force on the go without any help and having her display great saber skills on her first go at that too
if she needs a long time to learn something in the next episode it will feel entirely out of place as she picked up on everything possible immediately in 7
>>64408930
you seriously think she'll fuck up?
you haven't been watching much lately right?
Strong female characters can't ever fuck up.
Every single strong female character is basically Liam Neeson in any movie.
>>64409037
Liam Neeson died in Star Wars.
>>64408396
Read. Anakin, not Luke. Anakin in the first movie is a dumb nine-year-old kid who's randomly the greatest pilot ever.
Meanwhile, none of Luke's talents in ANH were just suddenly there. His abilities as a pilot are repeatedly foreshadowed, we can see early on that he's a good shot, and Obi-Wan trains him (albeit briefly) and talks him through his most impressive feat.
>>64408987
Only comparing one movie here.
Luke was fucking useless in ANH against vader.
He was a good Pilot I guess but even that was a group effort and he just was the one to do the lucky shot.
He barely could defend himself against that toy. Rey can fucking use the force to get herself a lightsaber and is already stronger than vader in anh.
>>64408915
>Vader, a fully trained Sith lord that's been hunting down Jedi for years
>Kylo, a historically weak minded dickhead that worships Vader and is barely a sith apprentice let alone a sith lord.
>>64408978
>can you imagine her just running away after vader kill obi-wan?
Nah, if Obi-wan was the exact same to her as he was to Luke and judging by her personality, she would've tried to fight him. At that point she would have also lost pretty badly because Vader is a robot sith lord.
>Can you imagine her being thrown around for two movies before training for years to finally beat vader?
Not by mooks because she clearly already has experience fighting even without a light saber. Luke started with zero combat experience compared to her. If she fought against Vader she would have lost for sure though.
>>64406781
unlike luke and anakin, she hasn't been shown to have negatives that hold them back and also because she lives in a time where no real sith exist and the only jedi didn't even finish his training with yoda
>>64408826
Luke basically fumbled his way through the rescue, and he had a lot of backup. Even Leia called him out for what a shit job he was doing.
>>64409112
Vader is this old crippled guy who can barely see anything and barely move in his suit.
Rey would've wiped the floor with him.
>>64409112
>Vader is a higher level see
Okay seriously vader was also a lot older and basically a relic.
Rey is already stronger than vader in anh. That is not even a debate.
>>64409193
No he's not. You're just butthurt over Rey and are trying to find excuses to hate her.
She would have definitely gotten her shit wrecked by Vader.
>>64407211
>Kylo
>A SITH LORD?
>>64409249
Are we seriously debating if Rey is stronger than Luke in Anh?
Fucking hell she could pull the lightsaber out of the ice.
The same thing luke has trouble with in empire
And there wasn't even somebody else pulling it from another side.
There is no fucking question that Rey would've beaten Vader.
>>64409182
He still succeeded didn't he? Rey also had help from Finn, Chewie and Han and would have been fucked without them. Finn basically saved her ass when Kylo tossed her like a ragdoll and fought Kylo. Without them coming to get her on the Falcon what could she have done? The base was destroyed and she was stranded.
>>64409193
Come on now. You don't honestly believe that.
>>64409247
>>64409193
>Vader would lose cause he's old
No he wouldn't. Even at his age he's more machine than man for one and for second he's way more powerful than Rey. Are you really telling me that a Samurai cyborg with stronger force powers than most in the known galaxy would lose to an untrained bowstaff fighter?
You faggots are just trying to confirm your own fucking biases now.
>>64407053
You know Rey's only had 1 film right?
>>64409249
>She would have definitely gotten her shit wrecked by Vader.
that's the point, she would, in all logic.
but if the fight happened in that movie, she would've won, because she's perfect.
that's exactly the problem.
>>64407928
ding ding ding
>>64409405
Look at the fight between vader and obi-wan and tell me that rey wouldn't beat him.
She is already stronger than vader.
For fucks sake the prequels have overwritten your memories of ANH
We are ignoring the prequels here so Vader is not Space-jesus yet.
Just comparing the first movie of the OT with the first movie of this trilogy.
Rey would not have lost against vader.
>knows more about the falcon than han
>its a heavily modified ship
>>64409576
>A heavily modded ship that was stolen multiple times throughout the years.
>>64409477
You guys keep using that argument, it's like you don't even realise it's an argument for the 'rey is bullshit' side.
She's already up there even tho she hasn't had same story time as other characters, training and all.
>>64408137
>Emily Blunt dies like 20 times in EoT
>Furiosa gets her shit rekt like 5 times and almost dies in Fury Road
Be completely honest, /tv/, does it bother you that The Force Awakened and possibly Rouge One have female leads? Would you prefer they had male leads?
>>64409643
Two movies out of how many?
Reason I hate Rey is that she's a little skinny girl i can't dominate and slap around and fuck as much as I want on Jakku. SLAP her into place and show her who is boss.
She is over powered which annoys me as I want to just slap her around and show her who is boss.
>>64409651
I've no problem with TFA having a female lead, if anything I welcome it. It only makes sense after the last two trilogies have had males.
>>64409651
I honestly just want good leads. I would take a good female lead over a shitty male one every time.
I just wish wish you could criticize both gender's equally.
>>64409619
She's literally Anakin Episode I level except she wrecked a mediocre and badly injured Kylo Ren who doesn't seem to have received any training in lightsaber combat whatsoever.
When we finish VII and IX, and if Rey is still perfect af by the end, then yes, I will agree, she was a "mary sue".
But for now, it's still too early to fully determine.
You probably won't agree with what I just said, but hey, my opinion.
>>64409704
This is what buzzfeed on tumblr are hearing when they hear someone complain about her being a Mary-Sue?
>>64409764
>anakin episode I level
LITERALLY EVERYONE HATED ANAKIN. LITERALLY EVERYONE COMPLAINED ABOUT ANAKIN
WHY IS IT SUDDENLY SEXiSM YOU PRICK?
>>64409522
>>64409551
>2nd most powerful Sith Lord of all time
>losing to Rey
I can't believe I'm acutally reading this shit. The overrating of Rey has gone too far.
She beat a poorly trained, injured, mentally unstable and overconfident guy who possibly hadn't had a lightsaber duel against a competent opponent in years. There's a fucking difference.
>>64409807
I never hated Anakin because of his abilities.
I just disliked him cause he was whiny as fuck and even then I can still understand it cause most 9 year olds are whiny as fuck.
>>64409764
Anakins "hijinks" in Episode I are credited largely towards luck and mistake, and for the record no one was happy about a lot of it
We are given the impression that Rey is actively teaching herself how to use the fucking Force without any prior knowledge throughout the movie and beating a trained saber user at his own game is just the icing on the Mary Sue cake
>>64409823
People are definitely asserting she would win against Vader. It's time to bow out of this conversation
>>64409867
People mocked the Jesus metaphor and endlessly complained about how this little shit blew up that donut.
>>64409823
>>2nd most powerful Sith Lord of all time
Where are you getting that from?
Because he was just this really intimidating general in ANH.
>>64409877
For the last time, Kylo is not fully trained, was injured and has not had to fight a jedi in years.
>>64409704
she could probably lift you, manlet
https://www.instagram.com/p/6puNsxFE1e/
>>64409953
It's a general consensus that Sidious is numero uno and Vader is 2nd on the power level scale.
Look it up on google.
>>64409651
Would I prefer? Maybe, if it meant they left the "tuff girl!" shtick out of the movies. Each character race/gender in every product Disney produces is scientifically chosen to maximize profits, and the obvious preference for female leads on the young adult action segment of the market that has been going for the last decade in the industry is nothing but a capitalistic, cynical choice. Why not throw a bone to enfranchised nerds that helped to build and pay for those franchises throughout the decades with a cool male character?
That said, I'm not like women who are incapable to either empathize with lead characters from a different gender or are incapable to see the flaws of a character because I somehow "identify" with him.
Rey is a terrible character, Finn is the bumbling comedic relief with a paper thin persnoality, and Poe Dameron is generic dashing roguewho might be gay.
>>64409972
Yeah, but he is trained. With a weapon fundamentally different from a stick.
>>64410011
We are just using the first movie here.
No Expanded universe no prequels.
Just the first movie.
That was the fucking rules you guys came up with.
>>64409651
I was going to give her a chance to at least make me like her.
They didn't do that, I just felt pissed and cheap-shotted leaving the theater. Basically the culmination of all things female power character over the last trending decade or so, and it had to happen in one of my favorite childhood franchises.
It is very distracting, on top of ruining the suspension of disbelief.
>>64409972
So?
Nobody is saying Ren is stronger than Vader.
Just that Rey is stronger than vader.
Her being able to beat the emo doesn't really matter in this equation.
Rey > Vader > Kylo
>>64409877
With Anakin, I just kinda saw it as Anakin being guided by the Force, etc... even if he was whiny.
I doubt that she didn't have any "prior knowledge".
She'd heard of the "myth of Luke" beforehand so knowing something about the Force doesn't seem that unreasonable.
I will admit that being able to use the Force that well that quickly can be seen suspiciously, but we still don't have the context behind it until we've seen VIII and IX because she might have had some training behind it.
Who really knows at this point.
As it is, I tend to agree with you guys I guess, but I still enjoyed the film and enjoyed the character of Rey.
>>64409907
I guess I'm in a minority then, I thought he was whiny but I didn't see it as unreasonable.
>>64410058
That makes absolutely no sense.
>>64410131
obvious b8
>>64410140
>I thought he was whiny but I didn't see it as unreasonable.
you honestly thought him blowing up the death donut was perfectly reasonable and not terribly forced and just generally stupid.
And fuck that. That is not what this is about.
The assertion is that Rey gets criticized because of her gender when Anakin got even more complaints so even if you yourself thought it wasn't stupid that doesn't change anything.
>>64410220
>That makes absolutely no sense.
>hurr Rey might get flaws. you are comparing her one movie to Luke's three movies
>>64410220
It's time to ignore him. He's just set on confirming his own bias and hating Rey for being "a marysue" because she's not a bumbling retard.
>>64410305
Oh yeah luke was a bumbling retard.
>>64410280
We were discussing your stupid notion about how Rey could beat Vader, not Rey's character development.
>>64410236
If Luke can blow up a Death Star by "using the force" then Anakin, who has a greater force potential, etc..., blowing up a "death donut" doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
>>64410305
There's a difference between being a "bumbling retard" and displaying:
>great engineering ability
>great piloting ability
>great Force ability
>great melee fighting ability
>great marksman ability
with the limited, one movie screentime she is given and a hazy backstory about being dropped off on a desert planet as a toddler
hyperbole is not going to help you win this argument
>>64410344
You do understand this is not a powerlevel discussion right?
This is not "what if they fought each other in my head"
This is "what if A new hope was written like the force awakens."
Rey would not lose
>>64409651
Be completely honest
If in a new Matrix movie, there was a Neo #2 who was learning everything faster than the original Neo, would wipe up the floor with Morpheus #2 and beat up agent smith #2 with 1 hand within the first hour...
Would it bother you?
Now if I tell you that Neo #2 would be a female, would you suddenly not be bothered by it? Would it be sexist not to like it?
>>64408078
>roastie getting toasty
>>64408078
Reyfags confirmed for normies.
This is exactly what Disney wanted, more plebs eating-up their prole feed.
>>64410408
>Rey would win because I say so
>>64409767
Just being honest, m8. I want to own her.
>>64409977
No chance, I've seen her lift her 80kg, shit. I could lift her and that weight together.
>>64409883
Just to make it clear :
People are not saying "Rey is better than Vader"
They are saying "The jews behind the movies would make Rey win against Vader (or anyone else) regardless of trainings or powerlevel or plot logic/continuity, because they'll never make her fail".
>>64408137
>Look at all the recent female action movie protagonists, they get hurt, but they never get hurt as much as a male lead.
Furiosa nearly dies and Max literally has to save her. She also has a missing arm right off the bat
>>64407204
there's nothing honest about that post. you're getting the fuck trolled out of you.
>>64406781
>people still calling her a Mary Sue
It's called the Force Awakens. The force is essentially sentient and helps her with her powers.It even shows her visions after touching Luke's old lightsaber and goes against Ren, flying to her during the fight
If you wan't to complain, complain about them not making the force being sentient obvious
>>64408137
>It's some unspoken rule that when a female is the main lead of an action movie, she can't get her ass kicked as hard as a male does. She's not allowed to look like she's been through some hardship at all.
Probably because degenerates like the ones here get a sick sexual thrill from women getting physically abused. Hell, most porn involves women getting smacked around and violently fucked. There's an unsettling sexualized slant to most things involving chicks, so writers and shit just avoid including that stuff altogether.
Little do they know, grills also enjoy seeing men get beat up too ("woobiefication"). The sooner society catches on to the idea that women are also deviants who sexualize men, the better.
>>64410436
Underrated post
>>64409764
>She's literally Anakin Episode I
Anakin didn't use a lightsaber in EP 1 so that argument is redunant
The two people who did use lightsabers Qui Gon got rekt and Obi Wan got rekt till he pulled a last second desperate surprise move on Maul
He didn't close his eyes and suddenly become a pro duelist either, he had trained in the force since childhood up until that point.
>>64410611
>If you wan't to complain, complain about them not making the force being sentient obvious
Or they could just listen to what Obi Wan tells Luke in ANH.
>>64409099
>Read. Anakin, not Luke. Anakin in the first movie is a dumb nine-year-old kid who's randomly the greatest pilot ever.
except we know he's been podracing, and despite having good reflexes (for a human) he's never even finished a race until the movie starts.
>>64410657
Did you even read my post?
"except she wrecked..."
I conceded an opposing argument.
Also, Kylo Ren is a shitty duelist regardless. Who does he fight against, who does he practice against? Even Snoke, his master, says that he has to finish his training meaning that something was lacking, which has to mainly be lightsaber dueling. Kylo literally had no one to practice dueling with so of course he would be shit.
Add on a bowcaster injury (that should have blown him off the bridge) and the emotional toll of killing his father (it made him weaker according to the script), and it doesn't seem unreasonable that a Force prodigy like Rey who is part of this "awakening" beat him.
>>64410657
Maul was also a fully trained Sith Lord. Kylo is a complete shitter compared to any other Dark Jedi/Sith in the other movies.
>>64410808
Just to make this clear.
One thing that is also annoying about mary sues in fiction is that the villains are crazy incompetent for some reason.
So anyone bringing up how "Kylo Ren was shit anyway" is not really helping this argument.
>>64410808
That doesn't excuse her knowing everything and anything about the Falcon, being able to masterfully pilot it to get rid of all the TIE fighters, being able to use the jedi mind trick when it was never established she even knew what the fuck that was, being skilled with a gun and freeing herself without needing the help of anyone else and being liked by literally every single character she meets for no reason
>>64410862
A mary sue's core trait is not that they're girls, hot, super powerful, etc.
Their core trait is that they kill all dramatic tension with their perfection. The audience cannot invest in the story of an MC they know will always come on top in every scene, nevermind who opposes him/her.
>>64410862
Is he "crazy incompetent" though.
He wrecks Luke's academy, wrecks Han Solo, wrecks that Jakku village and Lor San-Tekka, wrecks Finn and Poe, stops a laser in air, and freezes people.
>>64410808
We'll have to wait and see how many off Lukes new gen Jedi he singlehandely wiped out next movie.
Then again, Luke himself isn't even a top 10 duelist either especially now the old EU is finito which means he had no one else to learn from so shitters learning from him isn't even a steep learning curve.
Which is interesting because the Flashback showed Rey being 6 or 7 so where did the sudden power/skill come from
I don't know, Disney fucked up and now everyone is wasting their lives arguing over it.
>>64410808
You're a stupid fucking faggot.
The training Kylo lacks is on the "Dark Side of The Force"™, not on lightsaber dueling.
Also, if we are to make assumptions we could say he had the Knights of fuckin Ren to practice with, if he wanted.
Regardless of how much actual practice he had with lightsaber dueling he's atleast 10 years older than Rey, he actually went to the Jedi Academy, and had been actively using and practicing his Force Powers and is able to do some advanced fucking shit like stop blasters midair and force choke people.
The battle scene is, literally, the first time Rey lights up a fucking saber she only held once. It doesn't matter how shit Kylo is, there is NO REASON for him not to beat her.
>>64410644
>Hell, most porn involves women getting smacked around and violently fucked.
what fucking porn are you watching, freakshow
>>64410862
Not to mention that they seem to at least drive home that he's great at using the Force
he stops a blaster bolt and holds it mid-air, interrogates captives with it, etc.
and yet, they still go out of their way to have Rey inexplicably resist his interrogation despite having never faced a test like this before or knowing how to actually use the Force
this is a Kylo Ren "at full strength" btw
>>64410996
Not ture
What mary sues come down to is that the entire story is warped to make them look good.
Everyone loves them. Everyone is slightly stupider.
That is the origin of the fucking name. Some fucking fanfiction character.
>>64411065
>there is NO REASON for him not to beat her.
The Force.
>>64406781
>blows up the Death Star using the Force on his first try
With the help of Obi-Wan, and he used to bullseye Womp Rats the size of that exhaust port all the time on Tatooine.
>>64411006
He is useless when confronted with rey.
He is scary against everyone else.
Mary sues is all about making the sue look good.
>>64411086
>What mary sues come down to is that the entire story is warped to make them look good.
>Everyone loves them. Everyone is slightly stupider.
That's killing dramatic tension.
>>64411016
>I don't know, Disney fucked up and now everyone is wasting their lives arguing over it.
Let's face it, no one here has got anything better to with them anyway.
>>64411119
He was literally playing with Finn as he attempted to saber fight him, seconds earlier
I dont know why people are trying to shit on kylo ren.
>He was lukes skywalkers apprentice
> he was so skilled in the force that snoke decided he needed to turn him to the dark side
>he kills all of lukes other jedi students and luke isnt able to stop him
>forces luke into hiding
>further trained by snoke and eventually becomes the top dog of the Knights of Ren
The movie sets him up as a pretty badass Vader like character, but Ren completely shits on him by closing her eyes for 5 seconds. He may not be a sith but hes supposed to be a legit threat.
>>64406781
You faggots got baited by this fucking reddit SJW? jesus.
>>64407053
>>Luke barely wins any fight through the whole OT and loses a hand
He killed that Wampa, a Rancor & Jabba's small army of mercs.
>>64411153
Yes.
And who does look better thanks to that?
He is dangerous when it comes to anyone else but compared to Rey he is a pussy.
>>64411188
He barely won against the Wampa and the Rancor
He'd been partly trained by two of the GOAT jedi knights by the time he beat Jabba's cannon fodder and he still struggled against a 60+ half cyborg vader.
>Luke falls down after getting his arm chopped off by his father and is hanging on a tiny antenna then gets picked up by the falcon
>Bravo Lucas
>Rey begins to try powers out from the Force, a sentient thing that is reaching out to her
>Hurr durr mary sue!
>>64411313
Yeah that's it, that's the entirety of the argument! Silly us! well done!!
>>64411156
>The movie sets him up as a pretty badass Vader like character
Pretty early on we see him talking to Vader's mask about having doubts and feeling the pull of the light. Compare that to the stoic, calm and imposing Vader.
>>64411156
This
The movie opens up with the focus on him and establishes him firmly as a legit thread and all around a good mirror of what Vader was at the beginning of ANH. He's legit terrifying as a villain and everyone wonders what is with this new mysterious sith
And then halfway through the movie he becomes Anakin 2.0. Even when he absolutely destroys every other character he comes across, he is completely incompetent against Rey for absolutely no reason and then loses all credibility as a villain.
>>64411104
There was also no reason for Anakin to get rekt against Dooku because he was literally space jesus, and yet he lost an arm to a more experienced ex jedi. And again lost to Obi Wan who was more experienced because he let the dark side cloud his judgement
In TFA Rey lets her own rage drive her and ends up beating an opponent who's far more skilled in the Force than her and someone who has decades of training over her.
>Tfw never get to see prime Dooku beat Mace Dindu in a fight
>>64411346
i'm glad you understand friend :^0
>>64411172
>expecting people to ignore shit baits on /tv/
>2016
>>64406781
>So how is she a Mary Sue compared to Luke?
Because she fits the definition of the term and Luke does not.
>>64409764
if this is true, it means that it's gonna have to be like Empire strikes back, with Rey losing to Kylo Ren in the "dark chapter" of the trilogy. And that's going to suck, because one of the problems of TFA is that it followed A new hope's template far too closely. I really really hope they have a different story with different story beats planned for the sequels, and still manage to get Rey not be a mary sue.
I think an interesting route to go would be for the second movie to be Kylo Ren's redemptive arc, with him joining forces with the rebels for the third movie where they all fight together against Snoke. If it's just the same "Oh shit he leveled up" in the 2nd movie and our heroes are at their lowest point, with the third movie being the last chapter where Kylo Ren turns on the emperor like Darth Vader did, that would be lame.
>>64411313
>Luke has some minor success in an ocean of failures/having to be rescued by others, until eventually his training allows him to be great
>Rey wins at fucking everything right off the bat, and everyone is fucking terrible compared to her.
>Just fucking because.
>Don't question it or you're sexist mysogynist nazipighitlerdemon
>>64411016
To cuck my own arguement here
>Luke is a shitty lightsaber duelist
>Especially now the old EU is gone unless they bring Datacrons and Force Ghosts back in the new movies
>Kylo learnt from Luke while he was teen
>Rey while she 6 or 7
*breathes*
>Kylo and The KOR supposedly killed most of Lukes new Jedi
>Rey got a mind block or some shit put in and never practiced with a lightsaber again till EP7
>Kylo got a new master in Snoke
>No one knows whether Snoke improved Kylo's saber skills
>No one knows if Kylo has been hunting down Lukes Jedi that escaped or ever seriously used his lightsaber again since he cucked Luke
>EP7
>Kylo gets injured
>Kylo injures Finn and vice versa
>Kylo rekts Finn and Rey
>Rey closes her eyes
>Either Light side or Dark side force powers her up
>She rekts him after using a lightsaber with this powerup for the first time since she was 6 or 7
The only explanation I have for all this is;
Luke is quite simply the shittest Lightsaber teacher around as evident of Kylo getting injured by Finn and Snoke never taught him shit lightsaber duelling wise, he just uses his raw force power to get shit done while he draws Luke out to finish him himself.
Rey got some powerup that will be explained in the next movie. Cause I have no other way to explain how someone who hasn't touched a lightsaber since she was 6/7 suddenly beat Kylo.
>>64407307
>It's also said that she used the dark side of the force to beat the injured Ren, but she just resisted it long enough not to kill Kylo.
I didn' see this implied at all in the movie, but it would be a really cool way to play with her mary sue-ness if it turns out that she has actually been channeling dark side powers and that that's only when she's powerful, so she's going to have to choose between being a really powerful sith which kylo ren will use against her, or she's going to have to gimp herself and go with the light side.
To see her actually cross over the line in a meaningful way would be cool to see.
>>64409764
>But for now, it's still too early to fully determine.
Except it's not, because in this movie, she was a Mary Sue character. Maybe in the next movie she won't be, but for all time, Rey in Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens, is an Mary Sue.
And that's just it.
>>64411570
yeah, disney kinda fucked itself for the trilogy, like bay did with the autobot victory in transformers 2.
let's face it, it's only going to get gayer from here.
>>64410422
Yes it would, because it goes against everything we know about Neo at that point.
>>64411415
>There was also no reason for Anakin to get rekt against Dooku
Except he was a brash, arrogant and stupid padawan going up against a fully fledged Sith Lord who was previously a Jedi Master. Kylo was neither.
>And again lost to Obi Wan who was more experienced because he let the dark side cloud his judgement
And Obi Wan's mind was clear, Anakin was in turmoil and again brash and arrogant.
>In TFA Rey lets her own rage drive her
Source on how she lets her rage drive her?
And again Kylo was injured and mentally fucked. It's funny you people always seem to completely ignore this.
For any Force user, being in a stable state of mind, dark or light, is the alpha omega. If they begin to doubt themselves, like Kylo did, they leave themselves vulnerable.
>Luke
>established as a good pilot also clueless as fuck
>Anakin
>literally a magic child so his talents are explained
>Rey
>has a vagina in the trendy feminist empowerment decade
It is impossible for Rey to be allowed to develop in the way Luke does. If Luke whispered through the Force to aid her in the duel with Kylo Ren, it would instantly be sexist, because her power derived from a male's assistance. Female protagonists are not allowed to have any assistance from men ever.
This is so even if every male protagonist ever did have a mentor in some form.
Its a rigid formulaic attempt at an independent female character with no regard for context. In an attempt to not be seen as weak, female protagonists are not allowed to require help. Being helped in any way plays into stereotypes of women being weak
I dunno about Rey really. The only really bullshit thing she was that mind control trick to escape. Because that's one of the first things she learns with the force and to me, that's something that needs more intermediate or advanced training to do.
They should've just gotten her to use the force to flip a switch or steal a key from the guard or something.
>>64411687
The implication of Kylo's own shitty lightclaymore and his interest on Luke's on lightsaber is that there are very few of those around, and most likely no one in the Academy actually used them, besides Luke himself.As far as we know Luke was the only person to know how to build new ones (no EU shit to tell us about the hidden jedi around the galaxy) and might have not done if he became a pacifist.
>>64406865
This.
Nobody except fedoras and Max Landis think she's a Mary Sue.
>she closed her eyes and became ultra good with saber
>exact same thing Obi Wan does when he sees his master die
>>64411156
Seriously, fucking this.
>Ren is set up to be a legitimate threat, possibly more so than previous sith
>responsible for the slaughter of Luke's other pupils, likely single-handedly against other talented force users
>has enough power to freeze a blaster bolt mid-air and hold it in place for several minutes with no apparent effort
>completely paralyzes Rey with the force upon their first meeting
>capable of mind-reading to extract something as detailed as star charts
And then Rey completely thrashes him in a single fight, after never having held a lightsaber before. Hell, I shouldn't be surprised considering that Rey has god-mode turned on the entire film and always beats everyone at everything.
This raises the question though, how the fuck do they redeem this? If Rey gets any sort of training under her belt, she's going to obliterate anyone that gets in her way unless they find some bullshit reason to strip her of her uber force, or if they give all her opponents equally bullshit powerups.
I wouldn't ordinarily give half a shit if Rey wasn't already the best at everything else, I'd say let her be the Galaxy's greatest force savant; but she's already the best pilot we've seen, has a near 100% accuracy rating with a blaster pistol having never held one before, picks up difficult force powers on the fly with no training, and is a more accomplished lightsaber duelist than a Sith Lord, and has luck that borders on absolutely insane. It wouldn't seem out of place if she started finding gold doubloons every time she sat down to take a shit.
>>64411947
You mean when he got his shit kicked in and then got thrown down a pit and only won because of his opponent's overconfidence in having the high ground?
>>64411785
>doesn't know there was no 'light' side of the force in previous movies
Gtfo reddit fag. So tired of this bullshit emotional turmoil argument. Seen it countless times. You mother fuckers are so stupid its unbelievable.
Just think about it for a second, actually try to turn your middle school critical analysis on. You just kill your pops willfully, INTENTIONALLY, NOT heat of the moment. It was fucking premeditated god damnit. You are going to be fucking jacked on chemicals. Blood pumping, heart pounding and body shaking at LEAST.
Yet because of the shit writers you get hit by a laser bolt from a 10 foot dog monster when you just earlier in the week stopped a fucking bolt in mid-air while having a conversation, probably HALF the fucking distance giant dog shot from.
You emotional turmoil cunts are lapping up bad writing like nothing. Did you think Kylo was going to go put his head between his knees and start crying after killing pops? He's more likely to go bang Phasma you dumb mfers.
If anything your senses should be paranoid and heightened as fuck.
This is just the FIRST stupid ass part of the fight, do I even need to go on?
>>64411970
Rey barely won against a wounded Kylo,
>>64411970
Kylo took a bowcaster blast (they went out of their way to demonstrate its power) to the gut, a glancing blow on his right arm, and had Rey on the ropes for most of the fight
>being this retarded
>>64411947
Obi Wan was trained with a saber, for a long time, as well as in the force
next
>>64412084
You seem triggered.
>>64406781
luke was getting pwned by a fucking robot sphere thing, while Rey had even less training and was able to take on a sith lord.
>but muh injuries
he's a fucking Sith. She's a nobody.
Plus Luke didn't do jedi mind trick until RoJ. She's doing it right off the bat.
>>64412086
>barely won
C'mon nigger. She slapped his shit, broke his saber and scarred his face after porking him twice.
>>64407813
>Now he gets his ass in Fury Road and it's unacceptable and it must be FEMINISM.
Misandry must be immediately pointed out, whether it's feminism or not. That's how feminists have won, and that's why they control all governments and media now.
>>64412084
This right here.
emotional turmoil is such a woman thing to say.
Shit like that would pump up your andrenaline, not turn you into a useless crying pile of waste
>>64406781
>luke sucks at everything he tries for the entire first movie and manages to use the force to fire a single critical shot that's the climax of the first movie
>luke still sucks shit and he hangs out with yoda to train. He thinks he can save his friends after training for a little bit but in reality he accomplishes nothing except for getting his ass handed to him and has to be saved by the people he was coming to save (same thing happened in the first movie btw)
Episode 3 comes around and luke has been training like a mofo and now actually has some time under his belt. He's actually kind of a badass at this point. Too bad he still gets btfo by the emperor and his daddy has to save the day.
If you ask me Luke kinda sucked at almost everything he's ever tried to do. The only times he showed up and went big was right at the end of episode 3 and at the start of episode 6. He's also not particularly good at dealing with people in general.
Anakin episode 1 is a mary sue but that shit fades in episode 2 because he becomes a whiny bitch that everybody hates except for Padme and Obi-wan and he doesn't actually do a whole lot except get manipulated by the villain.
>>64406781
>steals a ship and fucks up a mini Death Star by himself.
Which was heavily criticized when that movie came out. Using one of the worst scenes from the worst star wars film to make your point isn't helping.
>>64412131
she seemed pretty good with her staff :^)inb4 it doesn't translate over
>>64406781
>>64412086
>barely won
She literally didn't even receive a scratch from that fight because it's sexist for women to be hurt.
She came out of that fight cleaner than when she went in.
>>64412142
Can't downboat me here reddit.
>>64412192
It doesn't at all, good god
which begs the next question: how the fuck did a frail little girl with a fucking stick manage to survive on a harsh desert planet crawling with bandits in a universe where they're armed with blasters, stun guns, etc.
>>64412146
>kylo
>a sith lord
kek
>>64407813
Mad Max wasn't feminism because he got his ass kicked. It was feminism because the whole point of the movie was that men are evil and women are oppressed.
>>64412084
>>doesn't know there was no 'light' side of the force in previous movies
Yeah, well it is literally mentioned in this movie. Deal with it
And Kylo was obviously not "fucking pumped" after killing Han, he was completely off balance which let Chewie shoot him.
>>64412288
Great counterargument, word for word how a redditfag would respond.
>>64412146
>Kylo
>Sith Lord
>even a Sith
You know nothing.
>>64412084
Also the "emotional turmoil" fags forget that the Dark Side feeds on anger, sadness, aggression, etc. Kylo's pain and rage would have upped his power level, not made him weaker or more off-kilter.
He was even beating his wound in what seemed to be a method of causing more pain to keep himself focused and angry. Arguing that his wound and killing daddy are just in support of him being stronger.
>>64411970
I'd be willing to try to suck gold out of her ass, desu
>>64411156
>>64411415
>>64411970
>The movie sets him up as a pretty badass Vader like character
Yes, which would have been boring. It then later on subverts the expectations, and we find out that he actually doubts himself, that he only wears the ridiculous vader like mask because he wants to be like vader, but clearly isn't as strong.
He may show great promsie, but he is still flawed and not a fully trained sith.
What's also very clear is that he's just killed his father and he's been shot in his side, something that they make a visual reference to several times with him holding his side and beating over it in frustration.
Rey, also a natural talent sees through him and exploits his mental weakness. Would Rey have taken on Kylo when he was in full strength and his mind was calm, he most likely would have won. This was not a fair straight up 1v1, and the movie was pretty clear about this.
You focus too much on the lightsaber skills, when really this was a mostly mental battle.
>>64412322
>can't refute arguments
>starts spouting reddit
>>64412338
but Kylo isn't a full dark side force user. He's conflicted which makes him weaker.
>>64412338
No kidding. I like how they use the injury as an excuse yet Kylo manages to catch up to Mary Rey and Jar Jar Finn NO PROBLEM!
>>64412362
>It then later on subverts the expectations
No, it just fucks up the character by making him inconsistent and also ruining as an antagonist for the next film, meaning all that's left for him now is to turn good at this point.
>>64412365
Lol. I wasn't given a counterargument you dumb fuck. Did i need to add /s to great counterargument?
>>64412338
That's the fucking point you goddamn retard. Kylo wasn't fully in tune with the dark side.
Jesus Christ.
>>64412369
>full dark side
The fuck are you talking about? Have you ever even watched Star Wars before TFA?
>>64412369
The entire point of the killing his dad sequence was his full transition into the darkness you idiot
Did you miss that?
>>64412262
>It doesn't at all,
why not? the issue here is the raw sword fighting skills is it not? If she's a skilled fighter with a melee weapon such as the staff, why would she not be able to swing a lightsaber effectively?
>>64412487
Because a blunt stick relying primarily on physical trauma and leverage is not a "light" saber which can cut through almost anything like butter, turds for brains
>>64412463
>Kylo wasn't fully in tune with the dark side.
Oh, you're just stupid.
Rage makes you immediately in tune with the Dark Side, because that's literally what the Dark Side is.
How the fuck are their people in Current Year trying to talk about Star Wars who don't understand basic Star Wars philosophy?
>>64412474
He THOUGHT it would give him the strength when it did the exact opposite. Did you literally not see the movie?
This is like arguing with children.
>>64412487
>all metee weapons work the same
>a staff is comparable to a Gladius
>a Katana is comparable to a polearm
>>64412552
>Rage makes you immediately in tune with the Dark Side, because that's literally what the Dark Side is.
Ok, so Obi Wan was completely a Dark Jedi when he fought Maul after Quin Gon got stabbed? He looked pretty furious to me.
>>64412192
she'd really be perfect if she had a dick
>>64412487
the reason jedis need so much training for lightsabers is because the blade is weightless, they need the force to sense the position of the blade
otherwise just think about it, if all the weight is in the hilt, and you parry a blow, how are your hands going to recoil in time to prevent you from slicing off your own face?
after luke uses it in ANH he doesnt use it the rest of the movie (in the falcon)
and Anakin never uses it until like what 7-10 years pass?
and he gets wrecked by dooku
and luke gets wrecked by vader
>>64412557
And you know this how, retard?
>durr hurr I was reading his facial cues
are you fucking serious right now? This defies all precepts of the OT and prior
>>64412568
>>64412538
>all melee weapons work the same
In general, yes they do. This isn't a videogame where your axe skill only makes you good in swinging an axe and nothing else. Naturally you could get specialized with a weapon, but fighting with a staff would give her GENERAL fighting skills. I seriously hope you're not disputing this.
>>64412633
AND WHAT WOULD KYLO REN TRAINING WITH A SABER HIS ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE GET HIM TO YOU THICK FUCKING DULLARD
>>64412606
I keep seeing SJWs like you claim theres a bunch of Gary Stu's running around. Name any Gary Stu not in a b-movie and I'll fucking school you.
>>64412086
>>64412122
People keep bringing this up. Let's dissect this matchup a little bit:
Training: Edge to Kylo, Sith Lord training undoubtedly includes lightsaber combat and force training. Rey has none.
Physical Strength: Edge to Kylo. He clearly has greater muscle mass than her, as he should since he's a man and she's a woman.
Natural Force Talent: Draw. If we go by the assumption that Midi-Chlorians are hereditary and that they are a direct measure of natural force talent, Luke and Leia should both have about the same natural power level. As Leia's son and Luke's (probable) daughter, these two should ALSO have about the same natural power level. If the midi-chlorian's AREN'T hereditary, then we can default to training to determine force talent, in which Kylo clearly has the edge.
Current Physical Condition: Draw. Kylo has taken a bowcaster bolt to the stomach (enough to briefly bring him to his knees), while Rey has been sprinting around the not-Death-Star for the better part of an hour trying to not die - however, given Kylo's apparent ease in the early stages of the duel, he was clearly holding his own despite his injury.
Everything prior in the film tries to build Kylo up as a threatening, short-fused sith who was perfectly adept at kicking asses. And then Rey crushes him after her improvised meditation while doing the limbo over a collapsing chasm a foot behind her while Kylo uses his greater muscle mass to lean on her while she somehow resists and eventually overpowers him. Either the fight had a shit outcome do to poor writing, or Kylo was made to look to competent due to poor writing. Either way, Rey single-handedly brings the movie down to mediocre when it could have been a solid Star Wars entry.
>>64412659
>>64412633
You have to be joking right? Is it possible to be this dumb? If all melee weapons are easily interchangeable WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY? Jesus christ. The weight of a weapon DRASTICALLY changes how it must be wielded and can often result in a GREAT DEAL of practice required to do so effectively.
>>64411271
Oh i'm not arguing about that. Luke was halfway to being the GOAT Jedi in RoTJ so of course he is gonna dominate.
People say Rey was too perfect, but the only dumb thing was the Mindtrick shit.
-She's good at repairing ships because she's spent like a decade working around broken starships
-Was a shit shot who didn't even know how to use a blaster (JJ cut a scene which had her nearly get captured because she didn't take the safety off)
-Her lightsaber skills were honestly pretty shit, especially in the first half of the fight. Luke should have spoken with her through the force to help her beat Ren though...that would have been the right way to do it
-Is a good pilot because she's a Skywalker
TFA is a 7.5/10 movie, but Rey is not the problem, it was JJ's cowardice which cucked it.
>>64412146
>sith lord
Someone wasn't paying attention.
>>64412633
You're the one acting like its a video game dipshit
>>64412633
You've literally never picked up any weapon in your life, not that you could with those limp wrists, candy-ass.
A staff fights nothing like a weightless short sword.
You're the one talking in video game nonsense when you think someone repeating an action enough makes them level up and suddenly they're good at other nonsense they didn't practice
>>64412656
The autists are coming out.
Read the thread. Kylo is wounded, his mind is in complete turmoil after killing his father, he's a 100% in doubt mode.
>>64412669
>Physical Strength: Edge to Kylo. He clearly has greater muscle mass than her, as he should since he's a man and she's a woman.
irrelevant when you bring osmething like the force into it
>Current Physical Condition: Draw. Kylo has taken a bowcaster bolt to the stomach (enough to briefly bring him to his knees), while Rey has been sprinting around the not-Death-Star for the better part of an hour trying to not die - however, given Kylo's apparent ease in the early stages of the duel, he was clearly holding his own despite his injury.
No, this isn't a draw. He was clearly laboring and in pain from the shot
Seriously, fucking Kylo fags are as bad as Rey fags
>>64412610
>they need the force to sense the position of the blade
That is some extended universe bullshit and I am glad they are dropping this.
>all those redditors saying it's ok for Rey to beat Kylo because he's not fully trained
He's still way more trained than Rey who only found out that the Force was indeed real hours beforehand. He has most likely been trained by Luke and then Snoke since a very young age and we see him stop blaster bolts mid air, read people's minds, choke and toss people. He's at least a capable Force user while Rey is a total novice who heard some legends that turned out to be real and that somehow instantly gave her the ability to "outforce" someone who was trained for years.
There's even a clear point when Kylo and Rey lock blades, Ren starts talking to her about the Force, she goes "oh, right, the Force" which causes her to go super saiyan and wreck Kylo's shit in seconds.
All Rey needs to be a proficient Force user is a vague knowledge about the Force's existence and that's 100% bullshit
>>64412735
It's ironic you tell others to read the thread when that tired and stupid argument has been dismantled over and over again not just ITT but in every other thread it's been spewed into.
>>64412735
Ah yes, the usual bullshit "retorts"
his wounds weren't hindering him for most the fight, including against Finn, and the turmoil think is just an utterly ass argument that isn't consistent at all with the other movies or dark side practitioners
Anakin's idea of "turmoil" is waltzing into the Jedi Temple and killing hundreds of children and teenagers
>>64412158
>>64412163
>tips fedora
>>64412618
I was paying attention to the movie. It was obvious that Kylo wanted to embrace the dark side, but was held back. He thought killing daddy would solve it, but instead it backfired. Theres even a fucking scene with him literally saying he feels the pull of the light.
Did you not notice him being complete inattentive after killing Han?
>>64412735
>the villain is stupid and incompetent to make the sue look better
>somehow you are arguing that she isn't a mary sue
This is getting really stupid.
>>64412659
I don't know where you got that from, I only meant that Rey would be perfect as a trap/shemale.
>>64412214
>FEMINISTS ARE RAPING MY MIND!!!1
>>64412792
>Anakin's idea of "turmoil" is waltzing into the Jedi Temple and killing hundreds of children and teenagers
and then he gets raped by Obi wan, because Obi wan knows his place and feels justified in his actions, where as Anakin is doubtful and therefore loses.
>>64412802
He was in such "emotional turmoil" that he feverishly chased these two fucks out into the forest and cut Finn down handily
>>64412691
LOLLLLLLLLLLL
Aragon, thats who you choose? Based fucking Tolkien and you pick Aragorn?
Do you even know LOTR is based off a huge ass novel or do you think its just a movie?
How old are you? No seriously. Have you even seen LOTR? You picked a character so absurd to call a Gary Stu that unless you are mentally challenged...jesus.
Aragorn fails a fuckton in the first movie, despite being a warrior for, oh, i dont know, 60+ years? Oh yeah and having blood of the greatest humans to ever walk Middle Earth. Fails to save Boromir, fails to save Frodo from the wraith.
>>64412691
>literal magic blood
>still isn't the ultimate hero of the story
Nice try tho
>>64412855
The problem is that Anakin isn't doubtful at all you idiot
that high ground scene is the most straightforward and rudimentary one in the entire saga
He's high off the dark side and thought he could do a 30 foot quadruple backflip over Obi Wan with no problems
The characters were fine. The biggest problem with the film was Deathstar-Z. It was pointlessly overpowered to the degree that there was obviously zero chance that it wouldn't be destroyed, so what should have been something grandiose ended up just being pointless background noise. They could have spent that time actually looking for Luke, as the first act suggested, instead of just tacking him on to the very tail. Also, why can't Abrams properly express the vast distances that separates objects in space? It's as if they had all the right parts an people to make something great, but at some point decided that it needed sharks with lasers.
>>64412879
>LOLLLLLLLLLLL
You have to be 18 to post here.
>>64406781
If anything, reading your synopsis, Luke is the real Mary Sue.
>>64412855
What? No. Anakin is doubtful until he allows Mace to die. At that point he goes double downs on the emperor and takes a ride or die mentallity. After Obi-wan shows up he's 100% convinced that everybody has been playing him for a fool since he was a child.
>>64412742
Kylo is an edgy Vader wannabe, but the writing for this whole movie reeks of ass the more I examine it. Nothing holds any water because from the looks of it JJ just wanted to 1-up everyone's power levels from the previous films and forgot that most well-written characters actually have flaws - at least Kylo has his inner turmoil and a short temper, but Rey seemingly has none. By default I'm going to take Kylo's side just because he's not Ms. Perfect the entire film, and because he honestly should have won the fight - natural talent won't get you very far against a fighter trained with a weapon that can instantly kill you. She could've made one bad swing and lost an arm or worse, but in the end she walks out without a scratch while Finn is probably paralyzed.
>>64412338
>Kylo's pain and rage would have upped his power level, not made him weaker or more off-kilter.
This is like autists arguing about DragonballZ power levels. Pretty sad if you can't enjoy a movie because of your paranoid perceptions of fictitious power levels, shaking my head family.
>>64412879
I'd argue Aragorn's entire life up until RotK was a failure as he was afraid to step into the shoes of his ancestors and become the rightful king of Gondor even when the kingdom was in great turmoil. His arch is about defeating that fear and believing that he can be better than Isildur and he doesn't do that until the 3rd movie/book
Whether she's a Mary Sue or not, Rey's main problem is that she's really fucking boring. She has no real character arc or personality. She joins Finn to get away from the attacking First Order, then just as she's thinking about going back to Jakku, she gets kidnapped by Kylo Ren and taken to Starkiller Base so she can be present at the climax. Rey doesn't choose to do anything or have any real motive to do anything in TFA, she's just dragged along by the plot. Rey is easily the least interesting character in the entire franchise.
>>64406781
>lets
Stop this shit. This ain't your secret club, no one accept you here.
>>64412842
Ha My bad then brother, I've seen others say roughly the same thing and they always mean at as 'if Rey was a guy no one would be calling her (him) a Mary Sue (Gary Stu)'
Oh my god when will all this stupid culture war shit end? When is it going to fucking end. I am so tired of it. I can't even believe how tired of all this stupid bullshit I am. It's all over the place too. Online and offline.
There has to be something I can do to end it- there has to be something I can do to set things right again.
>>64412966
This is star wars. The fucking motto of the dark side is that your rage makes you stronger. In the context of this universe he's right.
>>64412698
>f all melee weapons are easily interchangeable WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY
Because they fulfill different purposes? IF RIFLES ARE SO EASY TO USE WHY ARE THERE SO MANY. Same thing.
>>64412728
>>64412732
>You're the one acting like its a video game
If someone knows how to fight with a certain melee weapon, they'll be more likely be more competent at fighting with another one straight away no? How can you even begin to dispute that?
>>64412968
going off of the movies alone, Legolas is clearly the Gary Stu of the series, but he's also not the centerpiece and still seems to tend to be more of the bowman so he doesn't fuck with the plot of the movies
Of course these jackasses don't even know what a Mary Sue actually is and are associating it by default with every main lead in every series
>>64412552
>being angry ranks up your Force power to 9000
This is embarrassing.
>>64413017
>durr hurr competence is enough
I'm competent at playing basketball, but how well do you think I'm going to fare against Russell Westbrook? or even a D1 athlete?
>>64412973
She could be a more interesting character in the next film
I mean she could be written to be more interesting. Her acting is beyond saving
>>64412904
remember when he's talking to Padme, and says he can overthrow Sheev and they can rule and then basically kills her and blames Obi? You can't possibly tell me that's someone without conflict going on
>>64412968
Quite so, I'd agree. I only mentioned a few since the I'm guessing redditfag either won't reply or is just a feminazi.
>>64406781
>All three of these characters are exactly the same
>One's a genius, one's dumb
>One falls to dark side, one doesn't.
Are you actually trying to list similarities or have you somehow forgotten your own point?
