Say what you will about The Force Awakens, but Kylo Ren is a failure as a villain.
You can talk all you want about how he seemed vulnerable and "outside the stereotypical villain role", but at the end of the day, nobody cares about muh emotions, they want a threatening villain, and J.J. failed to deliver. Fortunately for him, there weren't repercussions to face, since he's only directing this one, but the next few movies may suffer as a result.
At least Rogue One will probably be good, since Vader's might be the bad guy.
>>64367512
Nothing will make sense to your American ears, and you will doubt everything that we do. But in the end, you will understand.
>wahh I'm frustrated that my low IQ can't understand the complexity of a great villain
>>64367549
Is 2016 the year of copypasta replies?
>first non-pleb villain in Star Wars
>plebs hate him
>>64367512
I see the ocean, I see the island.
>>64367512
>Episode 8 Climax: Rey faces down Kylo Ren on a desolate, barren planet
>Kylo is on his knees furiously pounding the ground and crying out in frustration and anger; his helmet is split in half and on the ground
>Kylo: RAAAAAAARGH!!! WHY!? AFTER EVERYTHING!! AFTER ALL THAT EFFORT!!! WHY CAN'T I STILL BEAT YOU!!!?
>Kylo: I EVEN..!! I-I even...
>Rey is standing above Kylo looking down at him with her lightsaber in the right hand and Kylo's in her left
>Rey: Give up and return to us, I know you can feel the light side beckoning you, it's what your father would have wanted
>Kylo: F-father...I-
>???: *Stop resisting*
>Kylo: !?
>???: *Consume you*
>Kylo hears a voice from within himself and becomes confused
>Kylo: W-who are you? Where are you talking to me from?
>Rey stares at Kylo in confusion
>???: *Your hatred*
>Kylo: I-I...
>Kylo stands up and just stands there quietly
>Rey: Kylo?
>???: *Let it consume you*
>The wind suddenly shifts
>Rey begins to look around with a worried expression
>Rey: What is this presence?
>Kylo: ...
>???: *LET YOUR HATRED CONSUME YOU*
>Kylo slowly raises his hand
>Rey: !?
>Kylo's lightsaber is ripped from Rey's grip
>Rey: K-Kylo!?
>Kylo slowly turns his head towards Rey, his eyes now completely blackened out
>Rey: W-what's happened to you!?
>Kylo extends his hand and summons lighting forth from his fingertips
>Rey: Aaaaahhhh!
>Rey manages to block with her lightsaber but is thrown back and lands on her back
>Kylo: I've...
>Kylo begins to laugh maniacally and takes a stance
>Kylo: Awakened
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TazywZDuj9I Starts playing at full blast
>[THE FORCE INTENSIFIES]
>>64367512
Just saw this, and completely agree. How do you get beat by a teenage girl who just learned she could use the force, and never touched a lightsaber? He was a bitch boy, but the movie wasn't that great anyway.
>>64367689
>>64367630
I bet you enjoy the films of Wes Anderson
>>64367689
>>64367871
>Weak villain who gets ass kicked by a girl who had never touched a lightsaber before, after completely submitting to the darkside.
How is this not the official pleb villain? He was basically written for the tumblr babbies.
>>64368189
Pleb, it's not my fault you don't understand that this is a three part story. Showing that Kylo is flawed only leaves room for growth, my pleb.
>>64367836
hmm maybe due to the fact that HE WAS BLEEDING TO DEATH
>>64368189
Kylo got his ass handed to him by a Mary Sue, that's hardly a knock against him. He's a good character who got shafted by terrible writing. Ironically, they've turned Kylo into an even more sympathetic character that you root for due to how stupidly overpowered they made Rey.
In the next movie they'll have no choice but to have Rey get her ass utterly handed to her by Kylo Ren, there's literally no other way they can handle it. They can't just shit on Kylo this movie and have Rey go on to curbstomp him again, people will call them out on it.
Rey's way too fucking good at literally everything way too fucking soon.
>>64367836
I thought he was actually wrecking her in the duel until the end. She was constantly being pushed back and was only able to overpower him when he stopped attacking to ask her to join by using the force.
>>64367574
Kill yourself you faggot.
>>64368363
Also not to mention the psychological toll ofkilling his fatherand being wounded as well.
>>64367512
>nobody cares about muh emotions
shh baby shhh
>>64368421
haha touched a nerve, retard?
>>64368255
Room to get weaker? It wouldn't make since for him to go to the darkside after he killed his father. It wouldn't make since for him to get much stronger since his training is basically done. Keep spouting pleb, though. It really justifies everything you say, and is probably a great way to cope with a shit movie you got too hyped for.
>>64368566
*go to the lighside
>gets blasted in the gut by bowcaster
>visibly shaken after having just killed his father
>1v1's Finn, a trained fighter, and wins decisively
>then immediately 1v1's Rey, holds his own for awhile but ultimately is defeated
>"yeah what a trash villain, complete failure, what the fuck was jj thinking"
no one can seriously be this unironically retarded
>>64367512
No one would be saying this if he didn't lose to Rey at the end. Kylo losing to Rey at the end is the worst thing about the movie. It ruins the villain and the hero at the same time.
>>64368782
>Finn was a pussy
>Relieved after killing father
>Rey was a teenage girl
Fixed those for you
>>64368357
>They can't just shit on Kylo this movie and have Rey go on to curbstomp him again
That's what will happen and the movie will be praised for being progressive and empowering. Disney has no reason to try to turn Rey into an actual character. They'd probably just get criticized for trying
>>64368566
>It wouldn't make since
>make since
>>64367826
Yes. YES.
>>64368782
>loses to some hillbilly bitch on a backwater planet
fixed
>>64368999
Rey can be saved. There's only one way to do it, though. Make her the villain. That's too risky, though, so they won't do that.
>>64368999
Progressiveness and being a strong womyn can only go so far, especially when handled in such a hamfisted way as it was here. If they pull that two movies in a row it WILL 100% cause large criticism from non-biased movie critics.
People all around are already making the case of Rey being a Mary Sue, but it's being given a pass because it's the first Star Wars movie after the disaster that was Episode 1-3. It's not gonig to fly a second time.
>>64369032
>Pointing out typos because you're mad.
Sense. Nice rebuttal :)
>>64367836
>Shot with a gun that killed 2 Stromtroopers previously
>Just killed his own father despite apprehension.
Toyed with Finn becuase he wanted him to suffer, got hurt by him because of his arrogance.
Then fights Rey and gets beaten
WHAT A WEAK PUSSY LMAO REY MARY SUE
Fuck off, please. There are legitimate issues with VII, but Rey and Kylo and not among these issues.
>>64367512
He is Anakin tier in terms of being a shit character and poorly cast. Fuck Star Wars fans they accept this only cause Lucas didn't make it.
>>64368782
>Finn, a trained fighter
..With a blaster. Finn is completely garbage with a lightsaber.
Anons...
You are all bitching about how J.J. has failed. Yet I don't see Jar Jars dumbass in this movie.
Yes kylo is a sissy little boy as the villan, but his character will grow. Just like his grandfather ep.1-3 to the original 4-6.
Ren is awesome. She hasn't perfected her connection with the force at all, yet she has found her abilities quickly. That just shows how powerful she can become. After all... The force is awakening...
>>64369199
>gets beaten by a girl that learned how to use the force an hour ago
>>64369199
Yes he got shot but he gave no fucking indication that shit was slowing him down. If he fought and winced in pain maybe I would buy it but he does not miss a fucking beat as he fights Rey and Finn. Fuck off reddit with this bullshit excuse she is a Mary God Damn Sue. Disney is terrified to make a female character that isn't God because they don't want bad PR.
>>64369264
>fresh fighter
>versus severely wounded and burned out fighter
and it still wasn't even a one-sided fight, kylo held his own until some force bullshit pushed it to rey's favor
>>64369260
>but his character will grow
Oh please at best he will "finish his training" which just means his DBZ power level will grow but he will still be the same shit 1 dimensional character.
>>64367689
that's irony coming from a full underage pleb like people like you
>>64367512
>at the end of the day, nobody cares about muh emotions, they want a threatening villain
You are speaking for your own close minded autistic beliefs, not the common opinion of the public
>>64369199
Rey was one of the only good things about the movie. Finn couldn't act for shit, and it was painful hearing him try to act white. The only good fan service was the introduction of the millennium falcon. Plus, some of the cgi was terrible. Kylo started out great, but go more and more pathetic. Which leads me to believe he will continue to get more and more pathetic.
When the movie ended I laughed. Reminded me of the ending of Resident Evil Code Veronica.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfoh-aTGVhw
Wesker vs Chris with Claire being Finn. They fight and then as the killing blow is about to happen the characters get separated and Wesker basically says you haven't seen the last of me like Kylo basically did. Such a shitty and cliche ending.
I think Kylo is unable to kill Rey because of they're possibly cousins and were close back when they were training with Luke.
There is that theory that was taken from Rey's childhood flashback that Kylo was the one that actually may have saved her during the massacre and put her on Jakku.
>>64369352
>>fresh fighter
Except they establish right at the start of the movie that rey is capable of fighting off two scavengers at once with a long stick
At the end of the movie she's just using a light stick instead of the long stick she's already accustomed to
>>64369260
>She hasn't perfected her connection with the force at all, yet she has found her abilities quickly.
That's the problem though. She just knows how to do everything.
>>64369260
>using the prequels in a positive reference
>>64369532
>Except they establish right at the start of the movie that rey is capable of fighting off two scavengers at once with a long stick
Scavengers aren't trained fighters. They're scavengers.
>At the end of the movie she's just using a light stick instead of the long stick she's already accustomed to
the difference between a sword and a quarterstaff is huge. Stop posting.
>>64369532
>using a stick against common thieves is just as good as using a sword against an expert
Are you fucking serious. How about how she is a blaster expert? A technical genius with the millennium falcon? She is a fucking mary sue fuck off back to reddit.
>>64369199
Do we have to go over this again? Rey:
- Top notch melee combatant, athletic, strong, beautiful out of the box
- Top notch pilot, instantly so, even in a craft she's never flown before
- Even her mistakes make things better, as when she let loose the monsters and they ended up saving Han and company
- Instantly loved by Han and Chewie and instantly better at fixing the Falcon than Han
- Shows no familiarity with a blaster and then is a crack shot ten seconds later
- Resists the Jedi Mind Trick, reverses it on a trained force user with no training or practice of her own, reads his mind, then divines how to use it on a Stormtrooper, again with not one second of training
- Rescues herself, completely self contained character, doesn't need help the way Luke constantly did
- Instantly learns Force Pull to get the saber, something Luke could barely do in Empire three YEARS after learning about the force
- Her Force Pull is stronger than Kylo's
- THEN she beats Kylo in a duel
- In the end Leia ignores Chewie, who just lost his life-long friend, to comform a girl she's barely met - because that girl is the center of the universe and the only important person
It's not JUST the duel. It's everything. She's good at EVERYTHING and instantly picks up new, very hard to learn skills and is instantly an expert with them. This is one of the defining traits of a Sue, along with "everyone instantly loves her" - which she ALSO has. There's hardly a Sue box unchecked.
It's not a bad movie. But Rey is a Sue.
>>64369665
Agree with everything except not a bad movie.
>>64369613
You can't deny it would take some skill to fend off 2 fully grown men when one of them is behind you also.
>>64369665
>It's not a bad movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU
>>64369665
Well as for the Force abilities, they are saying she may have already had started here Jedi training as a kid with Luke but had her mind wiped.
>>64369664
>blaster expert
The only time she used a gun she missed on her first shot and had to shoot a second time
>technical genius with the millennium falcon
She was familiar with the changes that had been made to it since it had been in the possession of her boss and they establish her as being interested in ships by showing the rebel pilot doll in her house, the rebel helmet and her admiring a ship leaving the planet. it's not an unreasonable amount of knowledge and they establish the precedent for her to know those things.
Did you actually pay attention or were you too busy trying to find excuses to hate the movie?
>>64369731
I'm not saying that, but the leap of difficulty from fighting two random men and a trained lightsaber and force user is quite significant, and it's not like she completely overpowered the two men from the start: they had the upper hand for a portion of the fight.
>>64369815
That isn't establishing shit you dumbass she is a scavenger. She has those things because she sells shit she finds which they established not because she likes them. Did you watch the movie or were you too busy blindly jerking off to everything going on?
>>64369871
She's a scavenger with aspirations, it's not any stretch of imagination to suggest that she would read up on the things she's interested in
>Did you watch the movie or were you too busy blindly jerking off to everything going on?
wew
>>64367826
That better be Sheev's voice in his head.
>>64369903
>She's a scavenger with aspirations
No she isn't. She says clear as day she is waiting for her family to come back. That is as far as her "aspirations" go you dumb fuck cuck.
>>64369665
>- Top notch melee combatant, athletic, strong, beautiful out of the box
Luke was a top notch pilot right out of the box and no one cared.
>- Top notch pilot, instantly so, even in a craft she's never flown before
See above
>- Even her mistakes make things better, as when she let loose the monsters and they ended up saving Han and company
And nearly ended up killing Finn? This wasn't a good mistake by any means.
>- Instantly loved by Han and Chewie and instantly better at fixing the Falcon than Han
She's not better than him, she just knows a lot about how ships work, especially the Falcon since she's a fangirl.
>- Shows no familiarity with a blaster and then is a crack shot ten seconds later
Point and shoot big deal.
>- Resists the Jedi Mind Trick, reverses it on a trained force user with no training or practice of her own, reads his mind, then divines how to use it on a Stormtrooper, again with not one second of training
She heard all the legends of the Jedi including their techniques. Loads of people would have tried the mindtrick before her but since she is force sensitive it actually worked.
>- Rescues herself, completely self contained character, doesn't need help the way Luke constantly did
She's had to survive on a harsh planet her entire life. Luke was a sheltered farm boy.
>- Instantly learns Force Pull to get the saber, something Luke could barely do in Empire three YEARS after learning about the force
Once again, she probably fucked around pretending to force pull things all the time from hearing the jedi legends. Only this time she was fully aware that she was force sensitive and knew she could do it.
>- Her Force Pull is stronger than Kylo's
Kylo was wounded as fuck, his pull was always going to be weaker than hers
>- THEN she beats Kylo in a duel
See above, other posts
>>64369979
So why does she have the rebel pilot doll or the rebel pilot helmet or admire a ship leaving the surface?
You can have aspirations and still have something tying you down
>>64370036
Because they are worth 0 portions so she decided to keep them rather than toss them you dumb fuck.
>>64369815
>She was familiar with the changes that had been made to it since it had been in the possession of her boss and they establish her as being interested in ships by showing the rebel pilot doll in her house
Doesn't explain how she is an expert at repairing the ship, to the point of being on par or surpassing Han.
>>64368189
>Wounded by a rifle that knocks back people about his height
>Didn't fall off that ridiculously thin bridge
he's is probably doing all he can to keep his organs in and he had to fight Finn before Rey did.
He was still winning the fight as first as well.
>>64367630
Never fucking reply to me again unless you're contributing to the thread.
>>64367512
I can't fathom how people can say Kylo Ren is a good villain while having also watched the OT. Right out of the gate Vader is on a giant fuckoff ship shooting lasers at a bitch cruiser, boards said cruiser, THROWS PEOPLE THE FUCK AROUND searching for his shit. He's a bad man on a mission and it's clear.
People compare this to Kylo freezing the blaster bolt, but that skillful manipulation of the force actually makes him look even fucking dumber when he loses to stupid shit later.
Vader goes from invading a fleeing rebel ship, to MURDERIZING the MC's beloved mentor (another thing they tried to parallel, but Han's death was handled with much less class and weight than Obi Wan's in ANH). Vader completely and utterly shits on Luke the entire series until the end, where Luke starts to use the Dark Side to overcome him. Here's why Kylo is stupid: Vader worked as the villain for every movie he was in that he was the villain, self-contained.
You people use the excuse of "It's a trilogy!" like that's supposed to assauge my complaints, but that actually only points out why I hate this fucking movie. It was a flashy, overly long commercial for THEORETICALLY better movies down the road.
It isn't grand, sweeping storytelling, it's quality rationing for dollar efficiency. And this backwards writing style is EXACTLY what led to a lot of the problems in the prequels. George was writing all the movies with the idea that there would be 3, and they'd all end up at Anakin becoming Darth Vader.
Do you people even like the original Star Wars?
>>64370082
>probably
That's the thing we don't know. From what I saw his fighting was not affected at all by the wound. His stance, moves all that shit did not seem impeded at all by the wound.
>>64369199
no fuck you. rey is a mary sue and just because kylo wasn't at his best doesn't change the other dozen or so legitimate complaints against her that they have.
>>64370124
>assauge
assuage*
>>64370130
Looked like he was smacking his intestines back in or something during the encounter with Finn.
>>64370024
>>64368189
He was shot by a fucking super-blaster
>>64370124
This 100 fucking percent. A good movie can explain itself well and not rely on the bait and switch of there are more movies down the line to explain this shit. You watched Star Wars and left complacent everything made sense and when you learned Vader was the father that was a bonus not something that explained unexplained bullshit from the past.
>>64370163
To me that looked like emo shit to pump up his adrenaline.
>>64370124
Isn't the whole point of Kylo not to make another Vader clone but do something different?
>>64370077
Name one time in the original series where Han was portrayed as being competent with repairing the ship
>>64370210
>hitting yourself to get pumped is emo
>I'm not old enough to know what emo actually is
>>64369539
Everything? She used a mind trick and she force pulled a lightsaber. That's not everything.
>>64370162
>assuage
>a sausage*
>>64370124
You can have a 'good' villain that isn't an impenetrable wall of evil
Good is referring to narrative depth not in-world competence
>>64370130
He kept smashing his side when he had the time to keep himself conscious and make his intestines stay in place
>>64370222
So far Kylo is a incompetent Vader clone. Seems like he is going to get training and going to get stronger. I suspect this will be a copy of the empire strikes back where he fucks over everyone and there are massive losses which is retarded because it just wipes away his incompetency and doesn't build on it.
>>64370222
Yes, but don't expect that to not go over people's heads
>>64369352
so you admit rey needed bullshit to win? there you go.
>>64370244
That was a suggestion faggot because i can't explain why he was doing that. Something tells me it isn't standard medical treatment to do that when you suffer a wound.
>>64368189
The only people who are angry about Kylo Ren getting beat by Rey are autistic weeaboos who watched too much DBZ and now are unable to see the flaws with power level logic.
Just because B defeated A and C defeated B, that doesn't mean A can't defeat C. Stop being such a fucking pleb.
>>64370222
Are you asking me? Because I agree with you, but the filmmakers didn't do that.
You can tell every scene Kylo has is meant to be a parallel to Vader. The initial intro with the mask (which he removes, an extremely condensed version of Vader symbolism), the "initial moment of intimidation" in the form of the blaster freezing, akin to Vader's force choking the dude on the ship with him who questioned him. He kills someone important to both the audience at that point and the characters, really all they did was make EXACTLY a Vader clone but make him wildly ineffective when the plot called for it.
So if you're asking me whether the point of Kylo Ren was to be different than Vader, I'd have to ask you that even if that was the intention, how did they fuck it up so badly?
>>64370024
>Luke was a top notch pilot right out of the box and no one cared.
But he was not a top notch melee combatant, nor is he particular strong or handsome.
>And nearly ended up killing Finn? This wasn't a good mistake by any means.
You're right, but instead of killing finn the monster decided to go on a fucking tour and give Rey a lot of time to correct her mistakes.
>especially the Falcon since she's a fangirl.
She called it trash. She didn't know it was the falcon.
>Point and shoot big deal.
Get a gun and go out to the nearest gun range right now and pop off a few shots, then do it while both you and your target is moving, then come back and post.
>She heard all the legends of the Jedi including their techniques.
If jedi techniques are so easy to learn that you only have to hear about them then why the need to be trained at all?
>She's had to survive on a harsh planet her entire life. Luke was a sheltered farm boy.
Valid.
>Once again, she probably fucked around pretending to force pull things all the time from hearing the jedi legends.
Now this is just conjecture. It doesn't mean anything.
>THEN she beats Kylo in a duel
Actually she was losing, despite kylo's injuries but bullshit force powers let her win.
>>64370350
Literally at the end of the movie Snoke retracts Kylo to "finish his training" implying his DBZ power level will go up in the next movie.
>>64370393
>nor is he particularly handsome
>>64370345
You already explained anon, it was to pump himself
>>64367512
nah he was good
>>64370450
Yes mentally. You don't fucking hit your chest to keep your organs in place that isn't how medicine works.
>>64370281
Vader wasn't an impenetrable wall of evil. He is shown as quite vulnerable under his mask, which is the entire point of his character. At his core he's just a man, one driven by anger and hate at the point of life you meet him in, but he's given a lot of character, even in the first movie, when he talks to Leia for example. He's not an "impenetrable wall of evil", hell, you could actually make that argument about Palpatine, who makes much more sense there.
Kylo could have been removed from the story entirely and it wouldn't have made a single bit of difference. He literally was in there because the movie needed a villain with lightsaber "skills".
He's even a fucking clear subordinate to a shadowy evil mastermind! How the FUCK is this not Vader 2.0: retard edition?
>>64370247
She also knows how to pilot a ship masterfully, ship repair, melee combat, ranged combat, and producing an aura that causes everyone to like you.
>>64370350
it was shit. accept it.
>>64370306
He reminded me not of Vader himself from OT but more of the Anakin turning to Vader phase from Prequels. Though with different emotional problems.
>>64370294
If you want to keep your intestines in place, smashing that is not how you do it. He's probably hitting himself to keep himself awake and conscious.
>>64367512
He's like a gay Darth Vader, what Lucas wanted to rewrite Anakin as anyway.
>>64370498
That's true, but hitting himself caused pain and anger, thus putting him in touch with the dark side, which was his ally in the fight
>>64370332
I wasn't the one you were replying to.
>>64370549
Look whatever the reason he did it they did a terrible job showing why and that is a problem. How about instead they have him limp as he is fighting Rey. That would have been a better indication that he is fucked up but no he still did his Jedi twirls and shit with no problems.
>>64370614
I assumed he was punching himself to get more in touch with the dark side through his pain
>>64370614
>How about instead they have him limp as he is fighting Rey.
Apparently, hitting himself worked.
>>64370663
Which is fine but still she Mary Sue'd him the fuck up which is what everyone is annoyed about.
>>64370665
apparently
>>64370665
He hit himself to numb the pain. It is a real life tactic that wounded soldiers use.
However, you can't exactly ignore being shot in the torso.
>>64367512
They made this guy such a fucking edgelord.
>>64370711
>However, you can't exactly ignore being shot in the torso.
Kylo can. Apparently. Blame Abrams.
>>64370350
No, the people are mad because Kylo Ren being incompetent drags down the competence of the entire universe.
Why wasn't he assassinated more easily if all it took was a stray bowcaster shot and then people so untrained and green like Rey (Finn was there, but he sucks at lightsabering)? How did such a wildly incompetent guy and tantrum throwing unstable freak assume a position of command? Vader was a controlled, useful, skilled murderer and he was STILL scoffed at by the military. The US Army wouldn't let this dipshit in.
And it also makes the entire movie a plot contrivance. You mean to tell me you really had to go grab up some nobody scavenger and her cowardly stormtrooper friend to go take care of all this shit? So what was she doing there, being as badass as she was? Chilling out doing nothing while the galaxy burns? How does she have these abilities, why? Why has she not employed them previous?
If any of the answers to those questions are "wait for the next movie" you are the marvel anthology obsessed shitter killing the movie industry, and are part of the fucking problem more than any "autistic weeaboo concerned about power levels" ever would be. Movies are supposed to be self-contained stories. Fucking 22 Jump Street was a fucking better sequel than this movie.
>>64370393
The hardest thing about learning Jedi techniques is that you have to unlearn what you've already learned, let go of your expectations of what will happen, that's the essence of the training. Take the submerged x-wing for example. Luke is full of doubt from the very start, he just can't clear his mind and be open about the possibilities. To hear this kind of power is possible is complete bullshit to him. Yoda even says he failed because he couldn't believe it. However Rey already knows what is possible and is fully aware of the power of the force from the legends. No one in Luke's time had even heard of the force let alone believed it. The moment she becomes open to the idea that she can use this power she takes to it like a moth to a flame. Also her heritage will likely play a key role.
>>64369275
He slams his wound like 4 times you fucking retard. Watch the movie instead of jacking off to anime next time.
Why did he have weighted boots
>>64370999
It's almost like he was using his pain to strengthen himself, you know that thing called the dark side of the force
>>64367512
For me the film at two immediate antagonists: Kylo Ren and General Hux.
Of the two General Hux was more threatening.
I've dealt with people like Kylo Ren. They were the kind of people I picked on at school for shits and giggles, by virtue of the fact they were all pussies.
>>64370754
UNDERRATED
>>64369457
Anon, I think you're forgetting how little the masses get invested and actually care about that sort of thing.
>>64367689
>Darth Vader
>Pleb
>Sidious
>Pleb
Sent you a rope through Amazon.
>>64367689
>Sheev
>pleb
Where do you think we are?
Kylo Ren will turn to the light side while Ray turns to the dark side.
Screen cap this because when I'm right you can remember I called it.
Reminder that Leia says to Han that he "always had Vader in him" and that's why "she sent him to Luke".
Kylo confirmed for torturing insects and listening to space Linkin Park as a kid
>>64370549
Darkside draws strength from pain as well as other carnal emotions. He's smacking his wound to both stay awake and get a power boost.
>>64370500
>He is shown as quite vulnerable under his mask
Name one scene in A New Hope where he was shown as vulnerable
>>64367512
Vader had the same issues in ANH his character got better in ESB.
I'll wait and see.
If Kylo had just been a stereotypical masked guy in a cloak with a creepy voice and mysterious past you guys would be complaining that he was just a copy of Vader and that he was bland and didn't contribute anything to the series. At least he has a character this way.
You guys are impossible to please. It's like you want to hate this movie
>>64374223
I think whoever the actor is, isn't suited to be a villain you need an actor with personality not some skinny 20 something dude that probably post in reddit.
Snoke is going to kill Luke in the next movie
>>64374118
It was never a question that Vader was a threat though.
>>64374594
But he was dude in a black suit in ANH, he had 0 personality.
>>64374284
For an imageboard that takes itself seriously you guys sure lose your shit when an actor isn't conventionally attractive
>>64367630
tell that to kanjiklub
The more I think about it, this movie was shit.
>>64374684
>>64374719
There have been a million posts complaining about how ugly he is or how he isn't suited to play a villain just based on how he looks sort of dorky. He has a unique character who he plays pretty well (probably thw most believable character in the movie)
You'd think a board that tries to be serious could look past his looks
>>64374609
>Being probably the baddest mofo in the galaxy and showing your supreme authority like a sith should
>Every time he talks and gives large insight into how he has high respect for the force and the balance of it
>No character
>>64374684
>>64374805
This is good bait.
>>64367836
>She was clearly skilled with melee combat as shown in the scene where she had to fight off thugs with her staff, a likely common occurrence, thus her skills got better over the years.
>Kylo was wounded
>Kylo was winded from the fight with Fin
>Kylo's training wasn't complete
Yeah, I wonder how she beat him.
I swear plotholefags don't have the memory to hold the simplest details for more than 20 minutes.
>>64374284
His voice was pretty cold sounding. I think it was good that it wasn't some wrinkly old fart or someone with a cliche scarred/mutilated/burnt face and was just a normal looking guy under the mask. Also the actor was a former Marine if that means anything.
>Kylo Ren is a failure as a villain
Nope
>but at the end of the day, nobody cares about muh emotions
Nope
>J.J. failed to deliver
Nope
>>64374284
The real reason 4chan hates him is because he reminds us too much of what we'd look like in that universe. I guarantee Kylo went hoe afterwords to shitpost on /k/ about how hard lightsabers are and on /pol/ about being cucked by Finn
>>64374100
The completely outrageous way he reacts to the admiral shit talking the Force. It gave you a sense that he wasn't just some mook hell bent on evil, he believed in something. You know, like humans often do.
>>64367512
How did he lose when he can time stop a laser blast?
>>64375524
That didn't show he was vulnerable, it showed he was powerful and dominating
>>64374223
No I wouldn't you don't know me fucking cunt
>>64375558
He didnt stop Chewbaccas laser.
>>64374223
Holy fuck I don't understand you people. They drew deliberate allusions to Vader with every aspect of his character precisely because they were too afraid to do anything different. Instead, realizing they can't copy him one for one, they made Vanakin in the movie, but this completely undermined everything else in the movie. Say what you want about the prequels, but everybody getting fucked up by Anakin was absolutely believable because they're shown to constantly be arrogant and retarded, with the possible exception of maybe Obi Wan, who has a personal bias.
The whole time Kylo is on screen I found myself asking "Why do they need someone special to kill this retard again? Could it really have just been any half functioning force user and her comedy sidekick? Why is the "resistance" struggling so hard against such an inept force?
Kylo takes the entire movie and makes you question stupid things like this, because the answer to all of this bullshit is "WATCH THE NEXT MOVIE"
Fuck you and your extended trailers for potentially better movies.
>>64375628
Chewie2gudHe did just kill Han though
>>64375524
Wasn't really outrageous. If it was Ren in that situation, he would have probably thrown the admiral out of his chair using the force and bashed his head against the desk.
>>64375673
>Han Solo dies +5 to Chewie accuracy -20 to Sith deflection
No it doesn't work this way sorry.
>>64375579
It showed that he considered the force something special enough to him that even shit talking it was an egregious offense to his sensibilities. People called him an evil bastard all the time and he didn't pay the slightest bit of attention (Leia), but the second they shit talked the force he almost murdered one of his own officers. That tiny scene tells you everything about the relationship Vader has with even his own "side". He's a scary, mysterious outsider even to his own people, who only tolerate his presence because they know he could fuck their shit up. You see exactly how alienated he is from everybody but the Emperor.
Before you say "BUT HOW WAS HE VULNERABLE" his reaction shows exactly how vulnerable he was.
>>64375698
Exactly. We knew Vader was holding back all the time. If he was that much of a threat at a fraction of his power, imagine if he went all out. Kylo does not hold back, and as such, we see that his max power is far lower than anything before.
>>64375740
Maybe not. I kinda thought the 'I just killed my dad' probably going on in his head would of at least been bit of a distraction from what's going on around him.
>>64375772
In what way is that vulnerable? People talk shit on his homie The Force, and he turborekts them. Sounds like a man that does what he wants to me.
>>64375698
It'd be akin to someone saying "Nobody cares about your religion" and someone responding by literally choking the life out of them.
Is it a particularly unlikely scenario? Not really, people get touchy about that sort of thing, but considering he was in a military room with high ranking officers, even at his special post, his reaction was ridiculous. Which was the point. I'm not saying I hate the scene, in fact I love it. I'm saying Kylo had no place in a military organization, but unlike Vader, didn't have the sheer might to make it so nobody could oust him.
Of course, we know the reason Kylo is there, he's probably Snoke's bitch. But how am I supposed to feel drama or suspense when some literal who from nowhere kicks the shit out of some bellyaching mook?
>>64375855
Nah, he seemed pretty happy with his decision to me.
>>64375902
Because nothing else drew out his ire enough to lose his composure. Vader is shown to be an impassive mask the entire 3 movies for the most part because this is the illusion he surrounds himself with. The entire point of his unveiling in Jedi is that he was a weak old man who was barely kept alive by machinery. His overreaction to the admiral was the very first hint of this vulnerability: that he wasn't just a creature of pure willpower. He could be hurt, he could be insulted, enough that he'd let it get to him to the point where he'd try to kill one of the people fighting for exactly the same outcome he is.
>>64375987
But he wasn't insulted. Somebody talked shit on the force, so he reminded them why they shouldn't. It's no different than obiwan educating Han on the force, just dark side
>>64370867
underrated post
IT'S NOT "JUST A PHASE," DAD!
>>64376042
Vader is never really shown to be openly hostile towards his officers at any other point as far as I know. Dismissive, callous maybe, but definitely not murderous. And yet one offhand comment from a guy enraged him so much he decides to try and kill him?
It was a total vulnerability. A sore spot. If I can say one sentence and make you act in a way you normally would not, how is that not a vulnerability? Especially when it could make you do something so reckless as attempt to kill someone on your side of a fight? He had to be called several times by another guy before he calmed down enough to stop murdering him.
If that isn't a vulnerability I legitimately do not know what is. Vulnerable doesn't necessarily mean a bright glowing red spot on your body that if someone presses you explode. Sometimes it's just little things that force you to act in ways you normally do not.
TL;DR: Vader got triggered and the ability to get triggered off of such innocuous behavior is absolutely a vulnerability.
>>64376259
Gotta keep your subordinates in line, otherwise you get what Vader did to Sheev.
The Sith don't care who's side you're on, they want personal power, and wish to further their own agendas.
If anything, the fact that he doesn't care for the lives of his officers makes him stronger.
>>64367574
decent impression of reddit
>>64367630
today I will remind them
>>64376491
No, it really doesn't. Even someone as evil as Sheev knew he had to manipulate people into following him, not simply try and force them. This is illustrated by the fact that the military basically doesn't even believe in the Force: Sheev clearly doesn't give a shit what they think about it, because to him that only further keeps them in ignorance of the force and therefore less likely to try and find ways to counteract it.
Caring for the lives of your officers, at least as far as a resource can be cared for, is a basic tenet of military principle. You can't do jack shit to a population of gorillions by yourself. Even Palpatine didn't try something that stupid.
>>64374805
I meant why do you think we take our self seriously? We're all bros here.
>>64373927
>space Linkin Park
>>64367512
>>64367512
hi OP, i am literally reddit: the reddit plebian literally the post: literally the reddit
i'm replying to let you know i disagree!
i really thought he was pretty good. like, i thought he was a believably complex character and that surprising shit might happen with him. i am wondering if he worships vader because he turned to the dark side, or if he turned to the light?? that kind of thing, that adults think about.
>>64377350
LITERALLY REDDIT
LITERALLY THE POST
You guys are forgetting something. Vader had been allied with the dark side since Luke and Leia were born (ep3), that's a good 18 years at least of him honing his potential and keeping his pussy fits in check.
Kylo Ren, on the other hand has only been allied to the dark side for a short amount of time. We can see this during the vision Rey has where he buttfucks Luke's 'Jedi academy', there is no noticeable change in his height or build, suggesting it wasn't all that long ago (maybe a few years). Which means he hasn't got the experience Vader does, which is why he isn't as powerful or menacing.
>>64367512
>kylo hates himself because hes not darth vader
>i hate kylo because hes not darth vader
meta poetry
>>64378146
I'm pretty sure Snoke has left Kylo to his own devices rather than guide and train him. He doesn't seem to be a particularly close and helpful teacher. At least in both the EU and new canon Palpatine questioned and challenged Vader quite a bit.
Kylo is a kid trying to stand with Vader and the Sith from the past and he doesn't know how. People just like to bitch.
>>64378204
his personality was based off the Star Wars fans
>>64377350
>surprising shit
>kylo ren
lol. kylo is a predictable as fuck character
>>64378261
its true, i also hate myself because i am not darth vader
>ywn be vader
why even live bros
>>64378204
>I hate Kylo because he is a completely inept retread of Vader
You're lying straight out of your bitch ass if you're gonna pretend the movie tried to make him anything other than Vader 2: School Shooter edition. The fucking mask he wears, the presence he projects, all of it was designed to make you associate it with Vader, but because he has an in universe reason for being a copycat he's a BRAVE NEW VILLAIN NOBODY UNDERSTOOD.
I'd have been fine with him if he was like Maul and just that guy who goes around fucking shit up while the real villain (Sheev, but in this case Snoke) does actual work. But we don't see that. Instead we see a bunch of supposedly legendary heroes require some random scavenger to deal with someone who is weaker than the guy whose ass they helped kick back in the day? What? What has the resistance been doing?
All of these questions pull me right out of the movie, because the answers are always "NEXT TIME ON DRAGON BALL Z".
