Hello? Mary Sue speaking.
>>64279860
No matter how many threads you make your Reyfu is still shit
>>64279860
awkward
>>64279860
>Loses his shoes
>Gets btfo hard multiple times
>Gets tricked and double crossed constantly
>Outnumbered and often outarmed
>Mary Sue
U tried.....
>>64279860
Rey is a shit character and Daisy is ugly with Fetal alcohol syndrome and all the people who call her "cute" (lol) are just Disney shills trying to spin a desperate situation (that no one wants her toys and they are already forgetting her role)
>>64279963
>>64279959
He overcame every single challenge that has been put in front of him in 5 different movies.
Mary Sue as fuck.
>>64279860
true that
>>64280121
>over coming challenges makes you a Mary Sue
You reyfags are horrible
>>64280121
Couldn't keep his marriage together
>>64280121
He gets his ass beat in every one of those movies though. I think the most physical thing Rey overcame was someone trying to hold her hand.
>>64280121
They only made one die hard movie, dumbass. Now I know you're lying.
>>64280121
>divorced
>kids hate him
>wife hates him
>alcoholic depressive spiral is his happy ever
The entire point of those movies is he beats the bad guys but loses in his personal life
Unlike Rey, who beats everybody with no effort and everybody loves her despite just meeting her.
>>64280390
>not liking 2 and 3
>not tolerating 4
That's how I know you're a cockloving faggot
>>64280342
any challenge against the odds, literally the definition of mary sue
>>64280437
different characters and story but still unstoppable
>>64280507
McClaine does it by wits, te help of others, and getting the shit beat out of him in the end.
Rey does it through deus ex machinw powers
Also McClain is balding so by default he isn't a Mary sue
>>64279959
If you nerds aren't complaining that Kylo was too powerful for her to be able to get away, you're complaining that she wasn't challenged enough.
And I get that this is the new buzzword, but at least try to understand the concept.
>a young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities
McClane was some shlubby beat cop, and would have died like 6 times from the injuries he sustained. He only manages to defeat like a dozen professionals with machine guns through overwhelming amounts of protagonist luck.
>>64279963
she's cute as fuck. I enjoyed Rey as a protagonist. She had a more-than-adequate character arc, and she's the protagonist in the 3rd best star wars film. Do I get a check or cash for having enjoyed an enjoyable movie with dynamic characters?
>>64280437
>The entire point of those movies is he beats the bad guys but loses in his personal life
That doesn't make him NOT a Mary Sue. You niggers don't even know wtf the trope is. He's an everyday joe type of character, and a mediocre beat cop in Die Hard, and he saves the day through extraordinary abilities. That's the fucking definition of Mary Sue dipshit.
And Die Hard ends with him fucking winning back his wife. Every Die Hard sequel with a family member plotline is explicitly about him winning back that family member. He somehow fixes his broken relationships by inexplicably stopping elaborate terrorism heists.
>>64280951
True. in 4 he saves the world AND he manages to get closer to his daughter
>>64280951
But he's divorced from his wife
>>64280565
>Luck
He actually catches 90% of them by surprise, not with Jedi Mind Tricks....
>>64279860
it's right now in the tv
>>64280951
>luck is now an extraordinary ability
>>64280507
This is obviously bait, but I honestly hope that people don't think being a successful protagonist against the odds is the definition of Mary Sue
>>64280562
>McClaine does it by wits, te help of others, and getting the shit beat out of him in the end.
McClane literally should have died like dozens of times in each movie. He didn't "outwit" a bunch of explosions, falls, bullet wounds, and other maimings. He only survived the films because he has an EXTRAORDINARY ability to not die in spite of a fatal amount of injuries. Confirmed for Mary Sue. Learn what the concept is before whining about it, dingus.
>Rey does it through deus ex machinw powers
Plenty of exposition explaining why she knew how to fight, fly, and use the force. There's no exposition that explains how John McClane doesn't die from shock and brain bleeding after being exploded and shit beat.
>Also McClain is balding so by default he isn't a Mary sue
So finally you fags are acknowledging that the Mary Sue hivemind is because she's not a dude.
>>64281194
not bait. pls google mary sue faggit
>>64281091
He suffers an overwhelming amount of physical trauma in each film that would unambiguously be fatal to an IRL human. That's protagonist luck brah.
>>64281274
Men and Women can be Mary Sues, you guys are just butthurt we called out rey for being one. And literally there is no explaination for her being able to mind trick a trooper
>but but, my sequels will explain it all
Then that's a fault on the film, isn't it?
>anyone who's not a complete fucking faggot is a mary sue
>>64281161
Goddamn you dipshits gotta get your arguments in order.
>Complain that Rey only escaped from Kylo because of Luck, and is a Mary Sue
>Argue that Luck isn't an extraordinary ability, and has nothing to do with Mary Sue.
Pick one.
And seriously, look up what the fuck you're even talking about gang.
>>64281437
Luck has literally never been mentioned by anyone when discussing Rey
>>64281437
We never argued her escape was luck, she never escaped from kylo ren. She beat the shit out of him
>>64279959
>alcoholic
>loses wife and kid
>>64281368
>And literally there is no explaination for her being able to mind trick a trooper
"Literally" there absolutely is. Kylo had Literally just inadvertently AWAKEN her force abilities trying to mind torture her. She is able to read his mind when that happens. And Jedi powers and the Force are legendary ideas in the Star Wars universe. She lived like a block away from the goddamn Church of the Force. She'd know what a mind trick is. She tried it out, having just realized she is force aware. It worked. Literally explained using only context clues and exposition explicitly shown in the film.
>Men and Women can be Mary Sues, you guys are just butthurt we called out rey for being one. And literally there is no explaination for her being able to mind trick a trooper
I'm not butthurt about it. I'm annoyed because you dipshits keep making it evidently clear that you don't even know what the fuck a Mary Sue is. The point isn't that she is a Mary Sue. The point is that ALMOST ALL PROTAGONISTS ARE. It's a standard trope, particularly in fantasy and adventure genres.
Read a fucking book people.
ITT Reyfags still in denial about how stupidly written their favorite star wars character is.
>>64281520
>She beat the shit out of him
No she didn't. He was easily controlling the pace of the fight right the entire time. She was retreating and defending and he was advancing right up until he she was cornered, and he gave her time to consider the offer to join him, and she took advantage of his "weakness" of compassion and managed to disarm him and get away. Goddamn you people are fickle and desperate.
>>64280951
>He's an everyday joe type of character, and a mediocre beat cop in Die Hard, and he saves the day through extraordinary abilities. That's the fucking definition of Mary Sue dipshit.
No you stupid faggot, a Mary Sue is inserting your OC Character in a franchise and being so utterly perfect and devoid of any flaws that the main characters have nothing but respect and admiration for you.
That is why we hate MaRey Sue, she is straight up bullshit in Episode VII.
>>64281898
It doesn't matter what happens before, the figt ended with his shit being beaten out of him by Rey and him being saved by a fissure
>>64280121
Remember that time a plane full of passengers literally blew up?
>>64281574
>Alcoholism doesn't have a fucking thing to do with Mary Sue. In fact it supports the idea that he is. He's a shlubby drunk beat cop who manages to win against overwhelming odds.
>Doesn't lose wife and kid in Die Hard. Entire story arc is about him winning back his wife.
>>64281985
>shit being beaten out of him
She disabled his weapon.
>and him being saved by a fissure
Implying either of them intended to kill the other.
Implying HE was saved by the fissure.
Implying that the convenient fissure that allowed her to escape wasn't luck.
>>64282171
It was luck FOR him. He was on the ground iirc and she was ready to continue attacking him
>>64282023
>Remember that time an entire solar system full of people literally blew up?
>Remember that time when literally every movie ends with John McClane having overcome every obstacle.
>>64282269
Who was talking about a solar system? You're crying about John McClane being a Mary Sue, what's a solar system got to do with it? And he didn't overcome the obstacle of a plane full of people not being dead, or upsetting black people.
>>64282204
They were both on the ground. She was never shown trying to "continue attacking him" once he was down. It was luck FOR both of them. He didn't want to kill her, and she was trying to escape because the planet was imploding.
HE'S A TRAINED EXPERIENCED COP, FUCKWITS
>>64282372
>Cites a plane blowing up as evidence that John McClane isn't a Mary Sue.
>Doesn't understand why that idiot logic also means Rey isn't a Mary Sue.
The Terrorists murdered a plane, and the First Order murdered a fucking solar system.
>And he didn't overcome the obstacle of a plane full of people not being dead
For fuck's sake dude google the fucking term. A: The plane being blown up wasn't an obstacle that he could have even overcome. Establishing that the antagonists in a story "mean business" and are bad people by showing them murder random people is scriptwriting 101. The random plane being blown up served THE EXACT SAME STORY FUNCTION as the random solar system being blown up in TFA. Kick the dog brah.
And 2: HE STILL SAVED THE DAY IN THE END. The plane his wife was on DIDN'T blow up, thanks to his extraordinary abilities.
>>64279860
He's constantly gets beaten up, tricked, and double crossed
Nice try Reyfags
>>64282753
I didn't say anything about Rey. I haven't even watched The Force Awakens you mouthbreathing sperg.
>>64282699
Doesn't mean he's not a Mary Sue. He's a low-rank, and the things he accomplishes are extraordinary. No IRL TRAINED EXPERIENCE COP would survive what he went through.
and also, regarding Rey. SHE'S A TRAINED EXPERIENCED SCAVENGER AND SURVIVOR, DINGDONG. She lives alone on a lawless, hostile planet. She makes her living working on spacecraft and has survived because she learned how to defend herself. If he's not a Mary Sue, she's not a Mary Sue.
Except McClane gets seriously injured and deceived all the time. In fact he was pretty much the antithesis of an invincible hero
The worst that happens to Rey is that she gets thrown into a tree. Whoa, I can feel the tension now
>>64282753
>extraordinary abilities.
He literally got btfo and thrown off the plane, only thing that stopped the bad guys getting away was him seeing the fuel pump and opening it.
>>64280121
The worst thing about this Rey discussion is that it's killing people's definition of what a Mary Sue is.
By the way that this is going, any character that wins/overcomes odds or some shit will be called a Mary Sue
I rarely see anybody use the term 'Mary Sue' correctly (present company included).
And I don't think I've _ever_ seen anybody intelligently or persuasively call somebody a Mary Sue. Ever. It's always a sign of some highly emotional negative reaction to a character that the accuser cannot rationally justify.
It's voodoo criticism. It's trying to critique by chanting a magic phrase, because the accuser doesn't understand or can't articulate the real problem they feel.
>>64283250
>arguing semantics
>>64280565
>she chews with her mouth open
>and she rudely hands Luke his saber with the business end pointed right at him
Savage.
>>64279860
>disliked by his estranged wife
>forces on the ground constantly undermining him (actively shoot at him)
>reliant on Al for information
>gets shot
>gets his feet all fucked up
>cries in the bathroom
>gets life saved by Al at the end
>>64280951
Nah. A defining characteristic of a Mary Sue is everyone inexplicably loving them.
Like Rey :)
>>64283035
>In fact he was pretty much the antithesis of an invincible hero
Bullshit. McClane would have died 3 times in Die Hard if he wasn't invincible. The entire point is that he's invincible. Sure, he gets "seriously injured" but it doesn't prevent him from always winning. And every movie after that gets more and more ridiculous and he gets more and more Mary Suey. He's driving cars into helicopters by DH4.
>The worst that happens to Rey is that she gets thrown into a tree. Whoa, I can feel the tension now
She also watches her mentor figure get murdered. She also gets captured and tortured for a while. She also watches every place she goes to get blown up by air assaults targeting her, causing her to be in a constant state of flight to escape the people attacking her. Just because she doesn't get grievously injured doesn't mean she doesn't go through a lot of shit. And relative amount of injury =/= make or break a Mary Sue diagnosis.
>>64283453
>inexplicably
She is charming, sweet and cute.
>>64279860
he's a mary sue in the new ones but no the original ones
>>64282960
absolute shit. Alla ction movies have unvelievable plots. That's got fuck all to do with Mary Sues.
Rey hasn't been trained in anything and she learn force powers and saber fighting in zero time, flies a freighter like s stunt pilot with no experience etc etc
Your counter argument is nonsensical
>>64283107
>He literally got btfo and thrown off the plane
Well you see, when most ORDINARY people get thrown out of a plane, they fucking die. If they manage to not fucking die, they are still too going to be incapacited. Ol' John though, he's EXTRAORDINARY. Not only does he never fucking die, but he still manages to always save the day.
>>64280565
>a young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities
That's not a Mary Sue though. That's just a standard Hollywood "chosen one."
Bella Swan is probably the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sues and she's fucking useless.
nobody ever says the Black Widow is a Mary Sue. Why?
BECAUSE SHE ISN'T
Rey is though
>>64283494
>hey Rey, my name's Leia. I know we haven't met before and it'd be far more appropriate for me to hug Chewie after Han's death seeing as we were both intrinsically linked through him, but I'll hug you instead because you're charming and cute
>>64283614
>three second scene
>>64280121
That's called a protagonist anon, typically they come out on top in the end. And as other anon's have pointed out, he beats the bad guys but his personal life is always deteriorating
>>64280507
>any challenge against the odds, literally the definition of mary sue
It literally isn't. 90% of movies are about protagonists winning challenges against the odds
>>64283613
She was nearly one in Avengers 2
Ultron: I WANT TO KILL THE AVENGERS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Captures Black Widow and locks her up without harming a hair on her body
McClane is a Gary Stu in Die Hard 4 and 5. It's a big reason, with many others, why those movies are shit.
>>64283641
What's your point? It's this kind of shit that cements Rey as a Mary Sue. Everyone loves her!
>>64283698
You haven't got a fucking clue have you?
>>64283453
Before the events of the movie, she is a loner in a hostile, exploitative area. The fact that she makes friends with the people with which she has common cause isn't a fucking Mary Sue. Luke didn't like Han too much when they first met, but they were totes brahs by the end of ANH. They were so tight after one movie that Han almost died saving Luke on Hoth, completely in spite of what he would normally do. Han "shoots first" Solo is willing to freeze to death for Luke. Luke confirmed for Mary Sue.
>>64280121
Nigga that's dumb. Someone who overcomes challenges isn't a mary sue, that's a protagonist
McClane gets fucked up constantly and loses his family life. The reason why Rey is boring as fuck is that she barely struggles and is ridiculously competent at everything she does. Everyone instantly like her even though they barely know her. She almost never loses or suffers so there's no sense of vulnerability or humanity to her either. The few times she actually does make mistakes end up actually benefiting her more than anything else
>>64283742
>Han
>Finn
>Chewie
She impresses Han and Chewie and saves Finn's ass.
Leia likely knows about her from Han. Would you really have wanted a scene where Han says "HEY YOU'RE REALLY GONNA LIKE THIS GIRL" because THAT would be Sue shit.
>everyone
>>64283745
She's an avenger
Yet he didn't kill her
Yet tries and blows up the planet anyway
>>64283614
>Hey Rey, we're definitely closely related. You look all fucked up from your ordeal. I'll hug you first before I hug that gorilla dog alien.
>>64279860
A hero winning isn't a Mary Sue
>>64279860
>got cucked by his wife
>is a bit of an ass
A Mary Sue isn't just about being OP, it also relates to your personality. If you have no character flaws and everyone instantly like you (aka Han Solo and Chewie instantly loving Rey despite knowing her for 5 minutes) it starts crossing into Mary Sue territory.
>>64280951
>>64281070
Anything after 3 doesn't count
>>64281070
And 4 was a shit movie, what's your point?
Literally everyone hates him.
Seriously every person he meets and everyone in his family is irritated by this guy
He saves their lives and his personality is still annoying enough that they hate him.
Lets genuinely place Rey in a situation like that.
She wouldn't have fallen for Gruber and wouldn't have given him the gun.
>>64283839
Yeah
>Han
>Finn
>Chewie
>Leia
>BB-8
Otherwise known as the main characters. All love her. Even fucking Kylo likes her and wants to train her.
So you're wrong :)
>>64283894
>we're definitely closely related
Nice projection. This movie gets much better when fans start plugging the massive holes in characterisation with their own fan fiction.
>t-the sequels will fix it
>>64279860
>Die Hard was literally a classic because it featured a flawed action hero that got beat up and suffered to kill bad guys
>Mary Sue
It's confirmed, this board is worse than r/movies
>>64283787
>getting this desperate to defend such shit writing and characterisation
Luke, Han and Leia spend the entirety of ANH arguing and then bickering. Luke is underminded by Leia and Han throughout the movie. Because they butt heads early on, we get to see their relationships grow and change. It's far more real. The relationships in TFA are so contrived and artificially forced because of weird decisions like making everyone love Rey immediately.
>>64283805
>>64283926
>>64284370
This. Rey-cucks don't seem to understand that being a Mary Sue is equally about personality.
TFA made Rey into a force of nature and kylo the weak one that has to overcome his flaws, I wanted to despise him because he was such an edgelord but because he's the only character that's even slightly interesting I'll be rooting for him throughout this trilogy
>>64285075
I'm sure Rey will switch places with him as the antagonist. It's the only arc for their characters that makes sense at this point.
>>64279860
> Mary Sue
-You wish.
>Luke, Han and Leia spend the entirety of ANH arguing and then bickering.
First 2/3rds of ANH actually. And it's almost like they had different personalities than the new characters or something.
>Luke is underminded by Leia and Han throughout the movie.
Not in the third act. Basic screenwriting brah. They went from being stuck together to being good friends to the point that they're willing to die for each other. Same thing as the new trilogy, except in the new trilogy the characters aren't assholes. Leia was a spoiled Princess, Luke was whiny and naive, and Han was a cynical dick.
>The relationships in TFA are so contrived and artificially forced because of weird decisions like making everyone love Rey immediately.
Ok. Totally. It's totally more contrived that 2 not assholes working together toward a common cause would get along better than 3 assholes stuck together for awhile. It's so wackily contrived that Finn, a stormtrooper who grew up in an almost-exclusively male, militaristic environment where everyone wears helmets wouldn't hate Rey.
I get that you're trying your darndest, but the things you're saying are stupid, and you should feel stupid. Both Rey and Finn were lonely characters who were longing for families and normal relationships their entire lives. Complaining that their relationship is "forced" because the 2 lonely orphans got along 20 minutes earlier in their film than the smuggler, princess, and dreamer did doesn't mean a fucking thing.
Seriously, the "people don't hate Rey" moan is the fucking weakest Mary Sue argument there is. Finn didn't hate her and Han quickly saw that she had utility. They shaped the character's relationships with each other around their personalities instead of making them bicker inexplicably. How fucking contrived.
>>64287318
You are so fucking mad.
Rey ticks literally every Mary Sue box.
Sorry if that upsets you :)
>>64285075
They made the protagonist someone who has great power dumped on their lap, and made the antagonist someone who is torn between being a goodie or a baddie?!
Spider-Man confirmed for Mary Sue.
>>64279860
Is this marry sue?
>>64287405
>You are so fucking mad.
Maybe we have different definitions of mad. I'm waiting for a ride shitposting on /tv/ about nerd shit that is pretty objectively well done. That I'm giving your autistic contrarian whining more consideration than it deserves has nothing to do with emotion.
>Rey ticks literally every Mary Sue box.
I'm pretty sure my entire point has been that quite a few characters tick "every Mary Sue box."
Mary Sue is a trope that was developed around secondary characters who were perceived as being unreasonably capable for their station. The trope is retarded when you try to use it to describe THE PROTAGONIST, because quite a few protagonists "check every box" and almost all of them "check most boxes." The protagonist is the audience surrogate. They're SUPPOSED to carry a level of wish-fulfillment in their role in the narrative. They're SUPPOSED to be friendly and pro-social and likely to develop relationships with other characters, because if they don't there's no goddamn story. They're SUPPOSED to win in the third act, against overwhelming odds. That's how narrative fiction works. That's how fucking drama works.
>>64282025
>protagonist
>losing
he had flaws, you knuckle head
>>64280951
He's NOT a mary sue. He was a cop, he was good at being a cop. He knew critical thinking, negotiating, handling a gun, etc. He wasn't a fighter pilot, a swordsmith, a mechanic, a race car driver.
>>64288136
He IS a Mary Sue. Most protagonists generally are.
I'll go ahead and paste my point from right above, as it's pretty much all that needs to be said. The point I'm assuming OP was making was that when you try and criticize the protagonist as a Mary Sue, you're misusing the trope. McClane is without a doubt operating above his station.
>Mary Sue is a trope that was developed around secondary characters who were perceived as being unreasonably capable for their station. The trope is retarded when you try to use it to describe THE PROTAGONIST, because quite a few protagonists "check every box" and almost all of them "check most boxes." The protagonist is the audience surrogate. They're SUPPOSED to carry a level of wish-fulfillment in their role in the narrative. They're SUPPOSED to be friendly and pro-social and likely to develop relationships with other characters, because if they don't there's no goddamn story. They're SUPPOSED to win in the third act, against overwhelming odds. That's how narrative fiction works. That's how fucking drama works.
>>64285075
This.
Kylo actually felt like he had a character arc with internal and external struggles and with room to meaningfully grow.
Rey just closes her eyes and gets mind tricks and lightsaber-fu uploaded into her head from the Matrix.
Kylo is a much better character
>>64288335
He's good, but he's not "perfect at everything despite no training, blazing through each struggle with minimal effort and having everyone instantly like him for no reason" good like Rey.
How is it so hard to accept that she was written too squeaky clean?
>>64288503
>How is it so hard to accept that she was written too squeaky clean?
Muh. Sojiny.
>>64288335
But he wasn't likeable. Nobody believed him, even the dispatcher thought he was a bullshitter when he tried calling for help. If he was a Mary Sue, he would've gotten immediate help.
>>64288335
Not in the first film.
Mclane suffers and screws up- yes he does prevail, but he is beat up in the end- rey doesn't really suffer for her exceptional abilities.
>>64279860
>John McClane
>Mary Sue
Reddit friends, how by your own defintions of perfection can someone who walks around with a I Hate Niggers sign be a mary sue?
He is obviously racist which means he can't be a mary sue.
>>64288503
>How is it so hard to accept that she was written too squeaky clean?
I don't fucking get this either. You can like the movie and like the character while conceding that she's a Mary Sue. Daisy Ridley did pretty well with the material she had to make Rey as endearing as possible.
Is it just undying fanboyism that some refuse to see the character for what she is?
>>64288688
There are also GLARING differences in the personalities of these characters and how other characters view them.
>tfw we will be stuck with Rey for the next Star Wars movies
I mean she was the weakest actor of them all. Even the fucking robot had more personality than her.
Listen. The point isn't that she overcomes the odds, every main character does that otherwise stories would be shit. The point is that Rey is so flawless she breaks the immersion. I only really like the first Die Hard, but when McClane is stepping over that broken glass barefooted in Nakatomi, you feel he is vulnerable and is struggling. Yes it's an action movie but they still manage to convey the suffering and range of emotions McClane exeperiences.
To quote another anon
>The reason you can't invest into Rey is because everything about her is predictable.
>In the next movie we already know Luke will absolutely adore her (maybe because she's his daughter, Luke actually HAS a reason to adore her, but since the rest of the cast does so too, it will feel just like another addition to the Rey fanclub)
>She's already beaten Kylo Ren, she will only be even more overpowered when she receives proper training from Luke.
>Of course the movie will need to compensate that by making Snoke an even more threatening villain, but this is the problem: We already know how the movie's are going to be because "Rey needs to be a badass everyone loves" is actually a universe rule now. It bends around her. The entire movie universe will revolve around what Rey will do instead of actually feeling like an universe filled with characters independent from each other.
>And it's not like Snoke or powered up Ren will even pose a threat to powered up Rey.
>We already know that she's such a badass she will never need help from anybody and if anything she'll storm in to save Luke's and Finn's ass.
>All the next movies are just gonna be a parade about how strong and cool Rey is. She will never have struggle that feels real and she will never have any character to her. She's just there to be a wish fulfillment character.
And that's it, if they continue to portray her in the next films as they did in the TFA, she will never seem real.
>>64288868
She'll transition to become the antagonist.
It's the only way to create any tension for the character.
>>64288922
And if they do manufacture some vulnerability for her, it's going to involve some serious backtracking.
>>64288929
>implying
It is a room full of suits that calls the shots, and they go for the safest, most boring option which will basically be this:
>after some doubts, Luke agrees to train Rey since she obviously has the most potential of them all and is way stronger and any Jedi before her etc.
>Snoke then sends the Knights after her, which she all defeats
>In the end, she defeats Snoke by "resisting" the dark side
Maybe they will make Kylo kill Snoke just like Vader did, but that will be it.
>>64288991
Well, TFA already mudding the Force. You can now flip flop between the light and dark side.
>>64284550
It's tumblr invading and trying to defend their terrible character because they don't watch things with actual good female characters (read: non-mainstream movies).
>>64288991
Exactly. She's gone from dust planet girl to space's deadliest warrior in what seems like a couple of days.Perhaps you could forgive end product Flawless Rey as a character if there was more development, but development was mainly focused on Kylo Ren which is probably why he comes off as one of the best characters.
It's the same with Finn, but the fact he does fuck all after the first 20 minutes means people aren't so bothered. Great setup, Stormtrooper begins to see past his conditioning and is morally conflicted by his duties - fantastic, there's tons to work with here! but as soon as he escapes he becomes a wise-cracking sidekick with tons of personality who happily shoots tons of other Stormtroopers who may be experiencing the same thing he did.
You just can't leave this sort of stuff out. Character development is important otherwise characters just aren't believable.
>>64289627
>but as soon as he escapes he becomes a wise-cracking sidekick with tons of personality who happily shoots tons of other Stormtroopers who may be experiencing the same thing he did.
This is why I don't quite understand why people say Finn was a great character or had a proper arc. Boyega did quite well with what he had, but Disney and JJ turned him into Comedy Side Nigger #647. So much for progressiveness or freshness.
I (regrettably) watched the first Percy Jackson movie earlier today, and there's a black guy in there as the protagonist's friend playing the exact same role as Finn. Finn is just Chris Tucker from Rush Hour toned down a little. There are countless other examples.
What the fuck does this thread have to do with star wars? Absolutely no where in the title does this say star wars thread. This is a die hard thread, get fucked
>>64290247
It's progressive though because he's side nigger to a female now
>>64290441
It's Reyfags defending shit writing. They've changed their standpoint from "she's not a Mary Sue" to "who cares if she's a Mary Sue, so is every other character!".
More like MaREY Sue.
Get it?!
The only way to make Mary Sue not a mary sue in the next movie is to probably make her force powers VERY UNSTABLE but powerful. Like she has no real control over it but can use it I guess?
Although it feels like a plot hole since she was able to control it throughout the end.
>>64290779
yeah that's great but what does this have to do with die hard?