>TFA releases
>eh, it was similar to ANH in too nany parts, but besides that
>now
>LITERAL REHASH OF ANH, SAME FUCKIMG SHIT, 2/10
What happened?
>>64275912
The contrarians finally got a chance to see it at the $6 matinee.
People had enough time to let it soak in and make all the connections.
>>64275912
The tasteless fanchildren all preordered tickets months in advance and everyone else waited so they wouldn't have to share the theatre with a group of whooping retards.
>too many plot holes
autists wanting everything explained is ruined movies
>>64275912
The honeymoon phase ended, and people have had enough time to sit back and actually think about what they saw.
>>64275912
Tell that to Kanjiklub
>>64275912
Hype blindness dies down
Initial hype wore off
Watched it 3 times so far and the more I watch it, the more I realize how much I dislike this movie.
>>64275912
The hype settled down and people started to actually think about it. JJ movies are designed that way, you're dazzled by the pretty explosions but later when you think about it you realize the movie is shit.
>>64276035
Everyone who's seen it a second time likes it more
>>64275938
You mean a cam got released
>>64276056
Most people I've talked to say they like it more on the second viewing.
>>64276013
>why cant you enjoy a movie without it making sense
pleb detected
>>64275938
same exact response in every fucking thread, you mindless cunt
>>64275912
People are weak-minded and fickle. They enjoy the movie when they don't have anyone else's opinion imparted on them, but then they start reading negative criticism for it on social media and they appropriate other peoples opinions in order to seem edgy and not get embarrassed later on when everyone else adopts that opinion and starts to hate the film. Very few people are capable of forming their own opinions regarding a movie.
>>64276173
It makes perfect sense, it just doesn't bog itself down attempting to explain every aspect of the lore.
no, it's more like,
>fanboy turds who actually saw it on the first day it came out
>give rationalizations for how it's not a piece of shit
then
>smart, well-adjusted people gradually get around to seeing it
>"meh it's rather shit"
>>64276086
Most don't, trust me
You have to understand one thing: For all the shit the prequels get, most of it is from people who didn't watch them when they came out, because they were too young. These are the people who missed out on both the original trilogy AND the prequels.
They copied the hate for the prequels to fit in with the jaded autists who are now in their 40s.
So for those people, it's their first star wars release that they are actively part of, so they HAVE to like it, it's like "shit, I wanna belong to this fandom, because I missed the two previous trains". So they blindly hype it, completely ignore all flaws. They're forcing themselves. And they'll defend this movie to the death. Every reviwer that uses phrases like "the first good star wars movie since 19xx" falls into the same category of youngsters who have no taste.
These people, from a subconscious fear of never really being part of this fandom, are now praising the movie to be the next coming of christ. Everyone who isn't still shitting their diapers and can actually judge the movie objectively will tell you: This one is the worst of the bunch.
Yes, worse than the prequels. It's like a chinese knockoff of star wars, bearing nothing that made the previous 6 movies charming (I say charming and not good, because they were both good at something, but not at the same thing". The only thing this has in common with star wars is the title. It's blatant nostalgia fanwank down to copying most of the plot from ANH, ripping off all major setpieces and shoehorning an "epic phrase" ála "i have a bad feeling about this" in the dialogue every 2-3 minutes.
Do me a favor and watch the prequels when you have the time again, just do it, and try to note how much they relied on recalling the original trilogy. It's not a lot. That's why the prequels, while having a different focus than the OT, succeed as a movie series. This movie does not. Conclusion in next post.
>>64276477
Keep it short dude. Just say
>people who like the movie aren't human
If that's what you want to say
>>64276477
You're a massive faggot. The notion that the prequel trilogy is some sort of paragon of originality is fucking absurd. The Phantom Menace was literally about a kid who's taken from Tatooine in order to train as a Jedi where he goes on to pilot a fighter jet and blow up the large enemy structure to win the day and receive an award at a large ceremony at the end. The one difference between Episode I and Episode VII is that Episode I does this with Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi (both of whom appeared in the first Star Wars movie), while Episode VII does this with completely new characters.
>>64276477
After you've done watching the prequels, watch TFA again and try and note how much new it brings to the table. How much substance and how much of the universe it expands on the 6 existing movies
The answer is barely anything. Sure they changed the names of some things. Tattoine is now Jakku, The Rebellion is now the Resistance, the Empire is now the First Order, but sticking a new label on something doesn't make it new content.
The true crime of this movie is that it set the tone for the next two. It didn't just ruin this one movie, it made sure that the next 2 would do the exact same shit, by setting a broke and unusable framework for the whole trilogy.
It's focus group tested, mass marketed hollywood garbage. Gone is the spirituality, the homages, the awe for greater things. The paying respect to techniques, franchieses, movies and series that came before. Look up how much influence the original trilogy had. From Western movies to Samurai films, tons of stuff. This movie only has itself as a reference. It's a shallow copy of something far greater than the sum of its parts.
And this is why neohipsters will love it to death, it's their free ticket into the fandom. It's their way to shit on the whole thing. Expect people to say it's the best of all the movies so far, fully expect it. Expect people to reurgitate the same old bullshit arguments that have been circulating the internet pretty much since it exists.
Because people have to believe them, because they want to believe them. Because they sacrifice taste and a potential good movie for a sense of belonging.
>>64276712
You can summarize every movie like that and make it look stupid. That alone proves nothing.
Try to compare how much Episode 1 expanded on the universe versus how much Episode 7 did. It's an insult to even mention the two in the same sentence. The pod racing sequence alone has more originality than the whole of TFA combined. Sit down kid.
>>64276712
Force Awakens had Poe, Finn, and Rey. Phantom Menace has Qui-Gon, Jar Jar, and Padme. Both used characters from the original trilogy.
>>64276848
>Star Wars movies are about creating as much new data as possible
Go back to wookiepedia
>>64276848
>You can summarize every movie like that and make it look stupid
No you fucking can't. Episode I was made as a remake of Episode IV. Remember the whole "it's like poetry, it rhymes" meme? It's intentional
>The pod racing sequence alone has more originality than the whole of TFA combined.
Holy shit you're a fucking joke
At release enthusiasts and fans saw it
Later on those who aren't as interested in SW went to see it.
>>64276884
>. Phantom Menace has Qui-Gon, Jar Jar, and Padme
Who got pushed aside .After TPM the main characters were Anakin and Obi-wan.
>>64276970
>Star wars movies are about memes and stealing every catchphrase from the whole franchise
gotcha senpai
>>64277010
We aren't talking about the prequel trilogy, we're talking about Phantom Menace. Try moving the goal posts some more.
>>64276975
That's because you idiot don't understand what the prequels were supposed to accomplish, and what they set out to do. Of course there are parallels between darth vader and his son, THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.
It's supposed to showcase his fall to darkness.
This new star wars doesn't have any of that in mind. It's a blatant rehash just for the sake of having a rehash. Zero world building, no plot cohesion, it's a childish reimagining of a movie that doesn't need reimagining. It's the quintessential parody of remaking a movie for a "younger and edgier audience". High budgeted CGI fest with no soul. Don't kid yourself that this isn't anything but.
And people are too smart to fall for this shit for a franchise as beloved as Star Wars, which is why people are waking up left and right and ripping this movie a new one, rightfully so.
You can stay in your make-believe fantasy land a little longer and then join us adults in the real world where we just accept the fact that Star Wars has hit the bucket.
>>64277045
You can't honestly say that Anakin and Obi-wan weren't as pertinent to the story as Rey and Finn.
>>64276987
So basically people who didnt watch it with rose tinted glasses saw it for what it was, a trashy SJW remake of the original.
Sounds about right.
>>64277154
>This new star wars doesn't have any of that in mind. It's a blatant rehash just for the sake of having a rehash.
It's an intentional parallel when TPM does it, but a rehash when TFA does. And yet you're still unable to articulate the difference without using vague nonsensical buzzwords like "soul."
>CGI fest
Now I know you're trolling. The prequel trilogy had fucking CGI sets.
>>64277166
Qui-Gon and Padme had more direct relevance to what was happening, both being the effective leaders of the group. Jar Jar drives a lot of the plot along and plays a role in the final battle. Obi-Wan a subordinate. Anakin was a child, and arguably a different character given he bears absolutely zero resemblance to Vader.
>>64277309
TPM parallels it invisibly, whereas TFA is constantly calling attention to it like it's winking at the audience, "Remember this?"
>>64276477
>>64276848
great posts. agree with everything. my review of TFA is literally a marvel style ANH with little substance and hamfisted SJW bullshit. not worth the money
>Just turn your brain off has become a legitimate point in defending bad movies
It's getting to the point where I can't tell if people are memeing the shit out of everything or this place is genuinely populated by fucking retards.
>>64277309
Let me rephrase:
The original trilogy was made with a backstory in mind, a fleshed out world that existed, but there wasn't enough time or budget to actually show it in the three movies, and the technology (CGI) wasn't there to show some of the things.
That is where the prequels come from, a desire to explain the missing things. That is why 1-6 is a sound and solid film series with a start and a finish, in a sense it's a story about anakin skywalker falling to the dark side and redeeming himself again.
Here is where the problem is: Return of the Jedi had a fantastic ending that tied up pretty much all loose ends. A new hope started with an open beginning, to have space for the prequels to fill in later.
TFA does not have this luxury. What people wanted was an original movie, because that is the only coherent thing you can follow up on ROTJ logically.
Worse, instead of trying trying to fit something into the existing films, they cold rebooted the franchise, using as much throwbacks and catchphrases to the old trilogy as possible, and even better, completely and utterly ignore the prequel movies, just as if they're saying HEY YOU DISLIKE THE PREQUELS RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT US TRUE STAR WARS FANS DO RIGHT?
From mentioning a bad feeling about six times, to copying all the plot points, it's a constant rush for more and more nostalgia to keep reminding you that you better be aware that this is a star wars movie, please clap!
For someone who this is their first movie, they'll be confused nonstop, because the movie expects you to consistently be aware of throwback references to the original trilogy all throughout the movie. This is something the prequels did MUCH better.
And the discontinuity of the prequels gets to absolute retarded levels in some parts. One thing the prequels really did well was make the world larger, planets actually looked like they had a shitton of people living on them. continued
>>64277340
Qui Gon died, Jar Jar was scraped, Padme was sometimes played by a prepubecent Keira Knightley. The three film arc was about Anakin and Obi-wan. Compare that TFA, where the only old character with any sort of presence is Han, who dies.
I really wanted to fucking like this movie. The prequels burned me and the reviews were so good. Nevertheless I went in with measured hype.
I don't understand how this movie is getting such good reviews. It's really not that good. The only redeeming factor is the acting.
>Needlessly complex backstory that is never adequately explained.
>Nobody on the Resistance is aware of Starkiller base until the end.
>Nobody reacts to 5 planets exploding.
>The Republic and First Order are never established, we have no idea of their scope & power.
>No stakes are set. "We can't let the First Order get Luke's location!" "Why?" "I dunno!" or "The First Order is bad! The Resistance will attack them!" "What's the First Order doing?" "I dunno LOL."
>Rey rapidly gains in power the moment she sets foot on Starkiller base.
>Everything to do w/ Han's freighter is ridiculous filler.
The movie was at its strongest during the first half. The moment they found the convenientally placed Millennium Falcon, things began falling apart, climaxing when Starkiller Base fires & the planning scene. "It's the Death Star but BIGGER!" "How do we blow it up?"
>>64277558
Finn is dead/comatose, Poe was supposed to be killed but unceremoniously thrust back into the story, only Rey seems to have any on-going story arc.
The Phantom Menace included a wealth of new characters and used them appropriately within it's story. They were all more or less necessary to what was going on. TFA is clearly filled with rewrites and sloppy characterization because they don't seem to know what their story is even about.
>>64277521
The one super short scene in TFA on an industrial planet EXPLICIBLY avoids showing any outdoor scene for no reason at all, except that a new hope didn't show the larger populated planets either. There is ZERO defense for this.
Likewise, they bend the plot to some stupid levels just to justify some visual imagery. By any stretch of the imagination, the republic should have a massive defense fleet ready to go, after all they are the official government now.
But instead we don't even get an excuse for the lack of thereof. No, they wanted to rehash the trench run from ANH (and they did, down to having a literal trench lead up to the generator on starkiller base), so an actual defense fleet wouldn't work, because they wanted to have this xwing vs giant battlestation thing again. It makes NO FUCKING SENSE.
The new republic doesn't even get the courtesy of being called that, instead they call themselves "THE RESISTANCE" now, because they were propably like "fuck fuck, they defeated the empire in the last movie, what do we do now, we want rebells vs empire in our movie". No explanation on how and where the new order was established, how it's even conceivable that they are still there, let alone have enough manpower and resources to construct such a mega death star 2.0 extreme jj version.
This is another thing the prequels did a hell of a lot better. There are an ABSOLUTE METRIC SHITTON of consistency pieces in the prequels, it all fits very well. From how the republic got its army, from how the jedis morale was eroded, how public opinion was played with, how menacing and dangerous the emperor turned out to be to be able to puppeteer this whole coup d'état. Everything was consistent, well explained or forshadowed and not only built on existing lore, but also greatly improved on the backstory.
TFA has NONE of that, because they don't give a rats ass about the franchise they're working with. It's an injustice really.
>>64277521
I get it, you grew up with the prequel trilogy so you have an irrational attachment to it. They aren't good movies, though. The notion that plot and lore are important aspect of any story is why genre fiction isn't taken seriously. The reason why most introductions to classic literature spoil the plot is because the writers correctly understood that the plot is simply an excuse to explore themes and characters. Making it the work's raison d'etre is how you get terrible fiction like The Lord of the Rings.
>>64277794
Nice meme copypasta, i rate it 9/11
>>64277794
>>64277820
No he's right to some extent. This is why A New Hope is way better than TFA. It's blunt and blatant in setting up its core plot, the destruction of the Death Star, but focuses primarily on character issues. TFA fails because it had a muddied and obscure plot and throws out the character for far too long to focus on a hastily introduced central threat.
>>64275912
The cam was uploaded lmao
People with taste are allowed to discuss it now
>>64277794
he right and youre right also, the prequels tried to be something, but ultimately failed because of lucas' autism
compared to TFA which was built from the ground up to be, memes aside, a glib facscimile
they intentionally copied the telling of ANH right down to the details even at the expense of the larger world
the prequels tried to expand the star wars universe, and storytelling aside, it did that
TFA destroyed the universe to tell its story, just because it wanted to be a cash in rehash
>>64277906
>TFA fails because it had a muddied and obscure plot and throws out the character for far too long to focus on a hastily introduced central threat.
Are you kidding? The one thing TFA did right was its characters. The fact that the plot is just a rehash allowed it to give us 20 minutes introducing Rey on Jakku.
>>64276316
A lot of things happen in the movie, but none of it has a reason for happening.
Literally, every thing that happens, ask "why?" and you get no answer.
Do that for all the other SW films, including the prequels, and you get an answer.
It's bad storytelling, through and through.
>>64278516
It didn't introduce her at all. SHe's just some scavenger who gets shorted food packs on the reg. But there's no clear indication who she really is, what her motivations are, where her talents lie. The latter of which are only revealed as they become immediately necessary later on in the film.
>>64275912
I never liked it. If anything I probably like it more now than I did when I came out of the theater, because some things were "explained."
But I've never thought of it as anything other than a 6/10, and maybe a 6.5/10 now.
I didn't hate it but it bored me. Beyond the moments when Kylo was on the screen, there was nothing to look forward to, and the endless amount of "coincidences" to make up for shitty writing and the total indifference towards worldbuilding left me upset.
I don't understand why it was important to have that stupid scene with the bounty hunters and monsters in Han's ship - or why Han have to pick them up at all instead of just happening to be on Jakku at the right time. After all, it's not like that wouldn't be a more logical coincidence than "I randomly found you first!!!" Those ten fifteen minutescould've been used to explain what the fuck is going on with the Republic, or why Finn is a special snowflake, or add a scene between Han and Kylo other than the one that was a total letdown.
But then again I'm not a visionary like Jay Jay :).
>>64278516
How is what you said in contrast to what I said? I completely agree. The best part was the characters. Which is why the movie fails. The plot lets them down constantly.
>>64278600
Have you watched the star wars films? Everything happened for a reason? Really? As most movies plots, those have coincidences galore.
>>64278839
The only real coincidence in A New Hope is Ben stumbling upon Luke after being attacked by the Tuskan Raiders.
>>64278652
Do really need everything to be spelled out for you? Her motivation is articulated when she looks at the old woman scrubbing the same parts she is; when she's scratching the days off in her AT-AT home; when she wears the old rebel fighter helmet. Did a Disney movie really go over your head?
>>64278600
>and you get no answer.
Each character has a real, obvious motivation. Did you watch the film?
>>64278965
No, the only goal she has is to sit around and wait. This only changes about halfway through the movie when she's forced to fight after being captured.
>>64279023
well that is probably due to some shitty cliffhanger writing done by jj
like shes waiting for someone, that someone is clearly important to her and to the story, but we wont find out till the next movie loool
>>64279018
>Each character has a real, obvious motivation. Did you watch the film?
Please go into detail about the motivation of each character. And I mean, INTO DETAIL.
Not:
>rey wanted to discover more about the force and help her friends
>finn wanted to be normal and escape the order
>poe wanted to fight for the rebels
>kylo wanted to overcome his fear and insecurities
Those may seem like motivations, but they aren't really. Those could be inadequate summaries we use to explain the complex motivations of characters in other movies -- you know, real characters, that have more than a single fucking thought, unlike TFA, where the "motivation" of each character is little more than an abstract MacGuffin meant to keep the thing rolling.
If you're still not convinced TFA is a rehash, check out this concept art for ANH. That's where they got their "new" x-wing designs from
>>64278839
Give me one plot point in any SW that is unexplained.
This is not the case for TFA at all, a kot is left unexplained.
Why do they need to search for Luke?
Why did Kylo turn to the Dark Side?
Why did the First Order come up?
Why is the Resistance sepperate from the Republic?
Why is Leia not with the Republic if she was Princess of the Rebellion?
Why did Luke exile himself instead of killing Kylo when he turned to the Dark Side?
Why does the orange imp have Anakin's lightsaber?
Why do they go see the orange imp at all?
Why did the FO build another death star?
Why did they blow up those republic planets, and why did they wait so long to do it?
Why does the FO wanna find Luke?
In fact, what do they even want at all?
List goes on, and these are all plot elements from the film as a standalone. A lot if which will go unexplained because the characters have no motives, no development.
Finn, Rey, Poe, we literally know NOTHING about them.
Finn's past being left out was exceptionally bad, since the film hinted to be going in that direction from the opening scene.
And that's not even getting into the HOWs, which are this film's most heinous crimes.
Like:
How did R2D2 wake up?
How did Poe survive and get back with resistance, and how did he lose his jacket?
How did Rey go SSJ on a sith lord?
How did the First Order get the money for the Starkiller base?
Most of these questions can be answered with a simple "to advance the plot." That's bad storytelling anon.
And don't say the sequels will answer it, because other books and media that set up sequels do a fair job at explaining the plot and characters on their own.
In LotR, we knew WHY Frodo had to go to Mordor, it wasn't left for the next film, in HP, we knew WHY Harry was sent to Hogwarts, we even knew he was special. It wasn't left hanging for Harry to pull a Deus Ex Machine, and then explained later that he was special. It was built up.
TFA fails at ALL of this.
I don't know if you guys have noticed but people are finally starting to wake up and realize how bad the movie actually is. Just go look at the user comments on Metacritic
>>64279149
I was replying to your claim that there wasn't any clear motivation, yet you put the onus on me to both make your argument and disprove it. Truth is that Han's motivation for returning to the Death Star to help Luke isn't just weak, it's non-existent. Finn wanting to leave the First Order after witnessing the violence it commits up close for the first time is far more well-articulated and comprehensible. Kylo obsessing over his lineage and finding a surrogate father figure in Snoke is much richer and more interesting than Vader's simple power trip. Rey wanting to STAY on her planet yet accepting the fact that she has to leave it is a millennial twist on Luke's need to leave Tatooine.
>>64279149
Deal is, Rey denied her call to action when given the lightsaber, it makes no sense based on her established character up to that point.
I know why they did it, they're literally following the Monomyth by the letter, but that makes it even more dumb when you break your characters to follow a cliche structure.
>>64279408
How much do you enjoy the smell of your own farts?
>>64276698
this
>>64279018
I watched the film.
It has some of THE worst character development I've seen in a film.
We literally have ZERO information about the characters and their pasts and motivations.
We knew plenty about Luke within the first act if ANH, that's what the first act is for, to set up the characters.
The cast of TFA simply exist for the sake of advancing the plot. They show personality, but they don't show any character or motivation. This makes them flat and stale.
>>64279632
A lot more than I enjoyed a 2 hour trailer for Episode VIII.
>>64279707
Figures
>>64279471
Han went back to the Death Star to help Luke cause he had a change of heart.
All throughout the film we saw Han talk tough, but show that he did in fact care. It's even outright said by Luke himself, when he decides to leave and fend for hinself, it's already set up for him to come back.
It's part of his character development, going from someone who only looks out for himself, to actially risking his neck for someone else for once.
It's part of Solo's transformation as a character, and we see it happening throughout the film.
Because he chooses to risk sometging he wasn't willling to sacrifice when he was introduced.
>>64279408
>Why do they need to search for Luke?
He went into hiding after he failed to train Kylo, like Obi-Wan
>Why did Kylo turn to the Dark Side?
We don't know yet, but we didn't know when it came to Vader until 5 films later.
>Why did the First Order come up?
>Why is the Resistance sepperate from the Republic?
Look at our current government and their willingness to fight ISIS. They're Chamberlain-esque appeasers.
>Why is Leia not with the Republic if she was Princess of the Rebellion?
Because she isn't. Do you really need the fact that she gave up being a princess in order to fight with the resistance explained to you?
>Why did Luke exile himself instead of killing Kylo when he turned to the Dark Side?
Why ask why Luke disappeared if you already know why? Also, he was probably waiting for Rey to show up.
>Why does the orange imp have Anakin's lightsaber?
Story for another time.
>Why do they go see the orange imp at all?
In order to find the Resistance.
>Why did the FO build another death star?
Because they're empire fanboys and probably grew up admiring the Death Star.
>Why did they blow up those republic planets, and why did they wait so long to do it?
It was the first time the weapon was ready, and they blew it up in order to create a power vacuum for them to fill.
>Why does the FO wanna find Luke?
To kill all of the Jedi. READ THE OPENING CRAWL.
>In fact, what do they even want at all?
Power and land, like literally every dictatorship in human history. Might as well ask what Stalin wanted.
Now I finally understand why professional hacks like Christopher Nolan put so much exposition into their movies, people like you literally can't put 2 and 2 together.
>>64279471
You're talking to the wrong guy, because I hadn't posted before that. I don't give about the previous Star Wars, they're all bad films, all in various ways (although I still think TFA is the worst).
>Finn wanting to leave the First Order after witnessing the violence it commits up close for the first time is far more well-articulated and comprehensible
Actually, it isn't, because we're essentially talking about a person that's been indoctrinated and supposedly put under testing to make sure that indoctrination was successful. He didn't even have a fucking name, I somehow doubt he was watching shounen in his free time to discover how he feels about life. By all rights, he shouldn't even have a personality or a self.
>Kylo obsessing over his lineage and finding a surrogate father figure in Snoke is much richer and more interesting than Vader's simple power trip
You've literally said nothing with that at all that I haven't said already, and Snoke being a father figure is just plain wrong, and it makes me wonder if you've even watched this movie.
>Rey wanting to STAY on her planet yet accepting the fact that she has to leave it is a millennial twist on Luke's need to leave Tatooine
Once again, you've said jack shit about the character.
Just shut the fuck up. Come back to me when you can go at length about these non-entities you call characters, instead of - and the irony in this! - finding an identity in them only by comparison to the older characters.
>>64279471
>millennial twist
wtf am i reading
is this what millenials actually beleive?
>>64275912
The population of /tv/ varies wildly around the time of major new releases when the place gets raided by pretty much everyone. The movie has been out for like 2 weeks and you're posting on a weekday at ~12 pacific burger-time so most likely you're hearing from hardened /tv/tards and memers, rather than crossboarding faggot tourists like yourself.
I'm a big guy for you
>>64279753
You're an idiot.
>>64279844
You say that, yet you were unable to properly answer most of the questions.
>He's waiting for Rey to show up
WHY?
>>64279833
His tern is never earned in the film. But even disregarding that, this isn't any less of an arc than Finn wanting to run from the First Order to wanting to fight it, or Rey wanting to stay on Jakku to her wanting to leave.
>>64279844
But why would the Orange imp know about the Resistance?
>>64279961
>WHY?
Because he senses her as a powerful force user and someone able to defeat Snoke; look at his face when they meet up at the end.
>>64279995
Except we don't see why at all, considering they're all supposed to be brainwashed from birth. He hinted it had something to do with his past, but it's never explained.
We don't know why Finn had a change of heart with the FO at all. And if he's a coward, why he goes around shooting fellow stormtroopers just fine once he joins "the good guys."
>>64279997
She ran a watering hole and was 1,000 years old. She probably knows a lot of shit.
>>64276477
I think you are dead on about people wanting to belong to something as a reason why its become this giant 2-3 billion dollar movie. Everyone wants to see it because everyone is seeing it, because they want to have that community, so they'll call TFA the best ever and then it's all about THEM and their speculation for Episode 8. Good post.
In a weird way the little kid viewers just are happy they can start at the 'best' one and ignore the others lol
>>64276212
probably a disney shill.
>>64280068
That's never said in thr film though.
Why can't Luke do it himself? Why didn't he do it 10 years ago and prevent the war from happening.
And if he was waiting for Rey, why did he hide from everyone and abandon her?
>>64279872
and you are a stuck-up faggot.
>>64280118
But that doesn't explain why she'd have confidential info about a militant resistance group, or why she'd have Anakin's saber in the first place.
>>64279844
>We don't know yet, but we didn't know when it came to Vader until 5 films later
The difference is that Vader's turn was never a plot point, whereas Ren's is.
>>64280171
You're still an idiot though.
>>64280096
>supposed to be brainwashed from birth
The film literally states that his indoctrination never took, and that that was his first combat mission. The notion that he would defect in these conditions isn't unrealistic at all. People defected from the Soviet Union after being indoctrinated from birth.
>And if he's a coward, why he goes around shooting fellow stormtroopers just fine once he joins "the good guys."
It's pretty easy to justify shooting people who are literally shooting at you.
>>64275912
People realized it's easy to shitpost about, so here we are.
>>64275912
People actually sat down and thought about what they saw.
>>64280214
She simply does. If another character would know that information, then they'd go to that one. That's like asking why a pothole fits the puddle perfectly.
>>64280260
>People defected from the Soviet Union after being indoctrinated from birth.
>implying that's even remotely similar
How stupid are you?
>>64280260
Yet we never get this shown to us at all. We just see him freak out and someone makes a passing remark.
That's all the "character development" you get.
You ever hear of "show don't tell?"
Is this what passes off as quality storytelling these days?
Say what you want about Lucas with his stupid plotlines, but at least the dude knew how to write a coherent story.
>>64280355
It's closer to the Hitler Youth, which people also defected from.
>>64280337
>she simply does
Who is she then? Why does she know this?
>she just does
Why?
>to advance the plot
Ahhhhh, my point is proven. Again, this is bad storytelling.
>>64280356
>the prequels
>coherent
they are the mightiest example of not showing but telling
>>64280413
And they still tell a better story than TFA.
That's how bad Disney got it.
>>64280096
its not that the motivations arent given. theres just no weight to them, no build up. Its literally like >>64280356 says, they give a line and one facial expression and its settled and done and that is supposed to be good enough for the audience
who cares about characters right? we just want to see them kick ass and muh exploshuns
>>64280356
>You ever hear of "show don't tell?"
Holy shit you idiot, that's exactly what the film did. It showed as the moment he decided to defect rather than just telling us. This exemplifies the showing adage better than any other Star Wars film, including the original trilogy.
>>64280413
>b-but, the prequels did it too
And somehow with this we ignore all the faults of TFA?
>>64280483
WHY?
Why did he defect?
>>64280492
no just that citing the prequels is a bad argument
>>64280552
It's not when they manage to be better than Episode VII.
>>64280472
The moment Rey looks at the old woman scrubbing the parts across from her and then goes back to scrubbing hers does visual story-telling better than any film Lucas has ever directed. If you need hours of exposition and screen time there are plenty of bad television shows out there for you to watch.
>>64280391
Emphasis on CLOSER rather than the FUCKING SAME.
We're talking about people that are raised from birth to not even have a personality, with superior technology capable of controlling them, and which may or may not be swayed directly by Snoke and the Dark Side itself.
This is not real life.
If it were a case where he turned because he had a lot of emotional attachment to X or Y, like how certain clones refused to follow 66 because they had grown fond of the Jedi and the Republic during their years of service, I would understand - or be more lenient towards.
But "hey it's blood!!! OMG!!! :(((" and suddenly turning on the only thing he's ever known, is stupid, and even if you found a way to make it work story-wise, it needed more of a build-up than what we got in the movie. Why not have him, you know, serve with the Order during the movie, slowly losing faith in it when the Rebels are attacking, only to be saved by Poe or Rey and switch sides in Ep 8?
But no let's make this rushed piece of shit with virtually no character development.
>>64280587
Explain what this tells us about Rey.
>>64280542
BECAUSE HE FINALLY SAW THE VIOLANE UP CLOSE YOU AUTIST. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HEARING SOMETHING AN ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING IT.
>>64276086
Well, the stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, so by the time you see it twice you should be through the first four, so that's probably why.
My first time I hated it and was quite depressed.
My second time, I mildly disliked it and was quite resigned, so you could say I liked it more.
>>64280587
Damn, scrubbing the parts, Half Life 3 confirmed?
>>64279408
>Why do they need to search for Luke?
Because Luke is the last Jedi and the main instrument in the reason why the Empire fell, they'd need him for the FO.
>Why did Kylo turn
Luke likely told him about Vader and the lure of the Dark Side and he had differing opinions.
>Why did the FO come up?
Some people liked the way the Empire worked more than the Republic.
>Why is the Resistance sep. from the Republic?
They just got out of a very long way with the Empire, they're looking to rebuild, not go prancing around dealing with Empire remnants.
>Why is Leia not with the Republic if she was Princess of the Rebellion?
Falling out with the Galactic Senate over the FO.
>Why did Luke exile himself instead of killing Kylo ?
He felt as though he failed as a Jedi and a teacher. The Knights of Ren are also more than Luke is alone, no matter how strong Luke is.
>Why does the imp have Anakin's lightsaber?
Magic I guess, I have no idea.
>Why do they go see the imp at all?
Because she has connections to get them to the Resistance.
>Why did the FO build another death star?
Because they're Empire fanboys and it's a great deterrent just like the Death Star was.
>Why did they blow up those republic planets, and why did they wait so long to do it?
To prove that they're the top dogs in the Galaxy, also they've likely been blowing up planets for awhile, they just finally located the new Republic capital.
>Why does the FO wanna find Luke?
To kill him.
>In fact, what do they even want at all?
To rule the galaxy as the Empire once did
>How did R2D2 wake up?
Mentioning of the map triggered it, granted he should have woken up prior to that
>How did Poe survive and get back with resistance
Movie says it.
>How did Rey go SSJ on a sith lord?
Bowcaster > Kylo Ren, he's also not a Sith Lord, nor is he even a Sith
>How did the FO get the money for the Starkiller base?
Sheev hidden funds, it might have also started construction during RotJ as they were finishing the Death Star II.
>>64280587
Lol, no it doesn't.
What does that tell us about Rey?
Don't just spout buzzwords you fucking tripfaggot, defend your fucking point.
Define to us exactly what that scene is conveying to the audience about Rey and her motivations and personality.
>>64280608
The realization that her situation is utterly hopeless, an that she'll eventually end up being that old woman unless she decides to leave Jakku. It's this film's binary sunset.
>>64280669
>Because Luke is the last Jedi and the main instrument in the reason why the Empire fell, they'd need him for the FO.
No, he wasn't. The rebellion destroyed Death Star 2 without Luke's help. Luke's quest in Jedi was personal, not strategic.
>>64280671
>Define to us exactly what that scene is conveying to the audience about Rey and her motivations and personality.
Are you fucking stupid? The old woman is doing exactly what she's doing; it's Luke's "I don't want to die on this planet" represented simply and succinctly.
>>64280684
That makes no fucking sense within the context of the movie, retard. If that were true, wouldn't Rey's main motivation be to get OFF the planet? Rather than you know, desperately wanting to go back there to wait for whomever the fuck?
You can't just interpret things as you please, context matters as well. There's no reason whatsoever for that to be the symbolic message of that scene. It contradicts most of the movie and the character itself.
>>64280684
And yet, this does not compel her to leave Jakku. Even after she's forced to leave to escape death, she is constantly talking about how she needs to get back. Only at the finale does she finally decide to set out on her own.
There is recognition when looking at the old woman, but it does nothing to impact her character or motivations.
>>64280638
But WHY?
What makes him different from the rest of the stormtroopers who doesn't freak out during their first combat mission?
Plus, it's not like they were fighting anyone, they were slaughtering a village. As someone who is fighting for the Order that idolizes THE RUTHLESS EMPIRE, you have to ask why he pussied out then.
Hell, why did he even join them.in the first places.
If his morals don't align with the Order, then why is he even with them at all.
THIS IS NEVER EXPLAINED.
This is key motivation and character development for Finn, and what the film should have given a LOT more focus to. But it's all brushed aside so we can rehash ANH.
>>64280587
Stop pretending you know a thing about cinema captain jeffko:^)
>>64280588
>something that literally happens in real life
>WHY DID IT HAPPEN IN A MOVIE WITH SPACE WIZARDS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Literally the worst nitpick one can make of the film
>>64280766
Except that it isn't at all. Luke is constantly talking about how he wants off Tatooine pretty much from the moment we meet him. Rey is constantly talking about how she can't leave Jakku.
>>64280832
>Hell, why did he even join them.in the first places.
Not that guy, but this actually is explained. They got taken away, they weren't recruited. They aren't like Stormtroopers in that sense, they're taken by force and indoctrinated. More like crazy Jihadists, less Roman legionnaires.
Funny as fuck how there's an inverse correlation between praise for a movie and movie quality here. The worst part about this board full of literal retards is that I recall the rough time period when I realized contrarianism was silly and childish... I was 12 fucking years old.
You "people" are literally garbage. This is what happens when you don't permanently ban subhuman types like stormshills and bane spammers. They eventually turn the place they infect into a circle jerk of barely-sentient drooling inbred morons.
>>64280832
Didn't they mention something about the Storm troopers being taken as kids and forced into becoming soldiers? or do they actually enlist?
>>64280766
Welp, people already beat me to it
>>64280802
>>64280810
Looks like even YOU don't understand Rey's character. So much for brilliant visual narrative huh?
>>64280802
>>64280810
Lol. Do you honestly think that she isn't conflicted? That setting up her eventual motivation to join the Resistance has to be a one-dimensional "I don't want to do this" to "now I want to do this"? You can't represent doubt and conflict visually? You people can't understand the most basic storytelling techniques.
>>64280877
>>64280907
Show don't tell though. What should have been a character arc, is briefly told and brushed aside.
>>64280982
>s-she's just conflicted, that's what
Just stop dude...
>>64280868
>>64280937
>characters only feel what they literally say
>characters can only feel one thing at a time
TFA detractors confirmed for children
>>64281049
>The moment Rey looks at the old woman scrubbing the parts across from her and then goes back to scrubbing hers does visual story-telling better than any film Lucas has ever directed
Very ironic :0)
>>64281038
How sad, a Disney movie went over your head. Her having a rebel doll, a rebel helmet, and starring longingly at ships leaving don't mean anything because she' thinks her family is coming back. The entire arc of her character is slowly accepting that her family isn't coming back. She both wants to leave and she wants a family, hence the conflict, hence the drama.
>>64281049
>incongruent charactetization means they're conflicted
Dude, this isn't Evangelion, these characters aren't very complex.
The characters literally fit the plot, and behave as the plot needs them to, not the other way around.
>>64280982
reys motivation has nothing to do with the resistance. she doesnt even join the resistance
she wants off planet, that is given with that scrubbing scene, but she is waiting for that someone to come back before she can leave, which isnt really a conflict. shes already decided she has to wait even though jakku is a shithole
it isnt much of a character point, since it has no weight, becuase the first moment she gets off jakku she gets told that the person shes waiting for isnt coming back anyway loool
>>64280982
The only place this conflict is present is in your own mind. The only thing present in the movie is an imbecile screaming that she wants to go back to Jakku. Again, don't project. Going by this I could say that the prequels aren't just the best of the Star Wars movies, but the best movies ever made, because I know so much shti surrounding them from outside sources and I can romanticize the material.
The reality is, there is virtually no symbolism of value in that scene, because it never becomes manifest in the movie, or the character's PRESENTED concerns. You don't have a scene where she's desperately trying to decide whether to get off Jakku or not, but then decides to stay. She's just going about her business, being an antisocial twat, then she goes nuts for being taken away, and continues saying she wants to go back (without even questioning this), even after she's seen what's on the outside.
So go fuck yourself. See, this is what makes this a bad movie: directing that doesn't line up with the writing and shit writing overall.
>>64280669
Look at all this speculation that has nothing in the movie itself to support it.
The fact that the novelization or the visual dictionary can try to save something doesn't change the fact that the movie is a confused mess. If the novel is good but the movie is balls, people should just read the novel and the movie can go fuck off.
The one bit you have there is that Poe explained his escape, but his explanation made no fucking sense. His jacket was caught on the TIE's cockpit, implying that he was thrown straight throw the windshield, which caught his jacket, so he got thrown through the windshield far enough away that Finn couldn't find him, was unconscious until after Finn started walking to the outpost, managed to get to the outpost after it had been strafed to hell by TIEs -- while it was crawling with stormtroopers -- and radioed for Resistance pickup, all in time to show up on Takodana with an X-Wing squadron and without a single scratch on him?
It would honestly be easier to believe he died in the crash and it was his identical twin brother Joe Dameron who showed up on Takodana.
>>64280982
Luke has real conflict. When confronted with the reality of leaving Tatooine he backs down and declines to join Obi-Wan on his journey to Alderaan. Prior to that it's established that he isn't really a farmer, that he has designs to apply to the academy, that he'd even like to leave early if possible. There's a back and forth as struggles between setting out on his own and leaving everything he knows behind.
Rey is constantly talking about how she can't leave, that her parents might return. There's no conflict here, she isn't considering leaving to find her parents on her own or anything. Her primary goal and motivation is to sit her ass down and wait. Even when she must leave, her primary goal is to try to get back home. It's only at the very, very end of the movie, after her surrogate replacement father is killed does she finally decide to actually do something.
There's no conflict here. She never makes a choice to leave, she's forced under threat of death. She doesn't make a choice not to return, she's captured and taken away. Only at the very, very end of the movie does she suddenly decide that now's a good time to take a star trip. It's a total 180 that does not build naturally off of anything that precedes it.
>>64275912
>>TFA releases
>>eh, it was similar to ANH in too nany parts, but besides that
I don't remember this at all, I only remember the second one
>>64281231
By the way, even detractors like >>64281228 understood that scene. I finally understand why people here don't enjoy TFA, it's literally too deep for them. How many people here even understand visual storytelling? How many threads about how Kylo Ren was framed and filmed, or how the editing is very 1980s, or how some of the lenses used were homages to Lucas?
>>64281222
>>64281172
>>64281228
>>64281231
>>64281321
Tripfag status: BTFO
You can go back to wanking to your Rey posters boy.
>>64280982
Lol, so if she was wearing a Stormtrooper helmet because it was lying around, it would symbolize she wants to be part of the empire?
Are you seriously reading into that instead of attributing it to what it is: namely, fan service?
Like I totally understand what you are trying to say, and it would make perfect sense in a movie that actually depended on this kind of storytelling, and there were good reasons to believe the directors and writers gave a fuck. This is not such a movie. If anything, going by the script, all we know is that they're a bunch of hacks that can barely put together an average movie.
With everything you're saying you're reaching, and while it would be fine to say that if we didn't have a living character - we do, and she embodies the opposite of what you're trying to say is being told through visual storytelling.
There is never, at any point in this movie, any inner conflict in Rey.
It's
>I want to wait for my family
>i want to go back to Jakku
>I want to go see Luke
That's basically it. No conflict to speak of.
>>64281462
It isn't very hard "BTFO" of someone that has no taste of his own and apes his superiors all the time.
>>64281321
>Rey is constantly talking about how she can't leave, that her parents might return.
Which clashes with her very obvious wish to leave the planet. Again, a character saying something isn't a reliable indication of their motivation.
>>64281454
Being nonsensical isn't being deep. Taking random shit and putting it together in a way that makes no sense, is not, as far as I know, considered deep and convincing storytelling.
>>64281547
>which clashes with her very obvious wish to leave the planet
Obvious to whom? Where? Where is this obvious? Gazing after a fucking ship doesn't make it fucking so, you nugget.
I gaze out my window all fucking day long, and you best believe it's not because I want to be outside, but because it's there - and I'm not even living in a desert.
>>64281500
>so if she was wearing a Stormtrooper helmet
The rebel helmet she randomly wears while she's eating.
>Like I totally understand what you are trying to say, and it would make perfect sense in a movie that actually depended on this kind of storytelling
You're assuming that the film has no subtext so you're ignoring the subtext that's there. You made up your mind before you saw the film.
>>64279844
None of that shit makes any sense. It's fucking stupid.
>>64281547
No, Rey acknowledging that she might wait forever, and that she could one day be that old woman does not mean she obviously wishes to leave the planet.
Luke chooses to leave, and he'd chosen to take steps before the movie even began to leave. Rey never chooses anything. She's forced to leave. She's prevented from being able to return. When a character's goals to stay on a given planet are constantly thwarted, it's obvious that they, in fact, do not want to leave.
How you'd come to the exact opposite conclusion, I've no idea.
>>64281640
>The rebel helmet she randomly wears while she's eating.
I KNOW. THAT'S THE POINT. IT IS RANDOM FANSERVICE. SAYING THAT IT SIGNIFIES SHE WANTS TO JOIN THE REBELS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT BECAUSE SHE BARELY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE GALAXY, THE REBELS, THE REPUBLIC, OR THE FIRST ORDER.
HOLY FUCK.
How could that possibly stand for her wanting to join the Rebels when she never does ANYTHING to state her feelings to that effect?
All she has is some half-assed stories. It has no bearing on reality. None whatsoever. She doesn't know the reality of the galaxy, and has no stakes in it.
>You're assuming that the film has no subtext so you're ignoring the subtext that's there. You made up your mind before you saw the film.
I'm not assuming, nor did I make up my mind before I watched it. I realized there was nothing to it after I watched it, and after I saw the kind of shit they were making.
Like, for example, it's reasonable to say that the light play during the Kylo/Han scene symbolizes Kylo's inner thoughts, because it's supported by what fucking happens in the movie.
At BEST you could call the Rebel helmet and all that other shit foreshadowing, and even that's a huge stretch. It's basically there to tell YOU about Rey and her situation, but it has jack shit to do with Rey herself and her thoughts on her conditions, as she never does jack shit about it, nor does she voice anything noteworthy. Except, you know, "I WANT TO GO BACK TO JAKKU."
>>64281640
if there was a subtext, its so obscure that only fanboys like you would read into it
there probably was no subtext
>>64281462
>>64281559
>>64281615
>>64281746
>When she looks at an old, wrinkly women cleaning scrap for sale, then later wistfully at a ship leaving the planet, it’s clear Rey is worried she’ll spend her whole life
How many published reviews mention and correctly interpret this scene? If anything, it's too obvious.
>>64281936
Worrying that her parents won't return and her entire life will be spent on Jakku doesn't mean she wants to leave. It means she wants her parents back.
>>64281454
>TFA is too deep
>>64281891
Watch enough films, read enough criticism, listen to enough commentary tracks, and you'll develop a higher cinematic IQ. Here's a hint: if it isn't action or plot related, the shot means something. The Tree of Life isn't just random shots strung together.
>>64281988
IT means that she's conflicted between wanting to stay and wait for her parents and wanting to leave her shitty situation, WHICH WAS THE POINT OF HER ARC.
>>64282154
nope.
shes determined to stay on jakku the whole time. at no point does she doubt her determination until she basically gets told that they nobody's going back for her
>>64281936
>published reviews
What could I expect from a garbage tripfag. So failing to make your own point, you use the argument of authority? Pathetic.
>>64282202
You don't understand a Disney film. How fucking tragic.
>>64275912
The exact same thing happened with Phantom Menace back in the day.
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-1999
Conversely, the original trilogy was extremely well-received by cinemagoers but reviled by critics.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QuQCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA71&dq=%22george+lucas%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OO_FVLH3EonyoATh2IG4DA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22george%20lucas%22&f=false
Since then, critics seem to be terrified of slating a Star Wars film for fear of exposing themselves as clueless, out-of-touch, pseudointellectual morons.
What you're seeing now the initial flurry of hype and paid reviews has died down is a more honest appraisal of the film coming to the fore.
>>64282206
You can't argue against "nuh uh" by cinematic troglodytes.
>>64282250
>he thinks disney films are full of subtext and hidden meaning that only film initiates can observe
>>64282080
>and you'll develop a higher cinematic IQ
>Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2
>>64282296
>cinematic troglodytes
>Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2
>>64282285
Nice revisionist history, faggot. The original Star Wars was a critical hit that was nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars, while The Phantom Menace was critically panned, especially by European critics.
>>64282080
Dude, do you even realize how stupid you look? Are you seriously comparing Tree of Life, or any serious movie, to The Force Awakens?
And then proceed to imply that others are ples? Are you fucking serious?
And no, the shot means something only if it can be interpreted as a part of the greater whole; then, and only then, can you take it to support your overall theory.
This is literally the same idea as quote-mining a text. You can pick a line from a philosophical text and build an entire theory around it that's completely contradictory to the views of the philosopher himself, which are only evident once you juxtapose the quote with the other thousands upon thousands of fucking things he's said.
Taking an unrelated shot and claiming it's deep when it has no further reverberations in this shitty movie doesn't imply depth. That depth is imaginary. You could say it's good directing, but it has no overall bearing on the story itself. It is not visual "storytelling." It is not connected to the story in any direct way. It's like trying to take a very artsy photograph of a poop. It's still a piece of shit.
>>64282308
>full screen shot/reverse shot of Rey reacting to an old woman as the camera pulls in
>"hidden"
>>64282403
Oh look, the dumb uninformed tripfag is mad.
Disney made all their money and don't pay people to shill on internet forums anymore.
They're just pretending to because they don't wasn't to let go of their hip cool "I like star wars" platform/don't want to have to admit that they spent $30-$40 watching a movie they didn't really enjoy and didn't even get a hard copy out of it
>>64282403
>anon posts links
>he disagrees, calls him a faggot, then proceeds to post no evidence of his own
Tripfag in a nutshell.
>>64282080
Rey's desire to leave the planet doesn't actually mean anything though. It's never acted on in the film.
>>64282479
exactly its not hidden, and has no greater meaning the moment she leaves jakku
the only thing you could say is that it gave her a sense of urgency when she was on jakku, but that disppeared completely and was never referenced again
>>64282427
Your brain divides films into separate classes necessitating different methods of dissection. You simply don't notice artistry in blockbuster films because you aren't looking for them due to an internal cinematic bias. So an obvious shot that even reviews are pointing out doesn't count because a film with a $200 million budget isn't allowed to have a shot like that in it. It's a silly bias, though. Listen to commentary tracks by directors like Nolan and Cameron; even when they make bad films they're thinking of stuff like this.
>>64282599
>>64282285
>The film was met with critical acclaim upon its release. In his 1977 review, Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times called the film "an out-of-body experience", compared its special effects to those of 2001: A Space Odyssey, and opined that the true strength of the film was its "pure narrative".[141] Vincent Canby of The New York Times called the film "the movie that's going to entertain a lot of contemporary folk who have a soft spot for the virtually ritualized manners of comic-book adventure" and "the most elaborate, most expensive, most beautiful movie serial ever made."[142] A.D. Murphy of Variety described the film as "magnificent" and claimed George Lucas had succeeded in his attempt to create the "biggest possible adventure fantasy" based on the serials and older action epics from his childhood.[143] Writing for The Washington Post, Gary Arnold gave the film a positive review, writing that the film "is a new classic in a rousing movie tradition: a space swashbuckler.
>>64276848
saved familia
>168 posts
>38 posters
I hope you know that some angry contrarian made half of the anti-TFA posts in this thread
>>64282673
This has nothing to do with what I said, though.
What I said was that the symbolism was meaningless so long as it's not actually present in the story of the movie itself - which it isn't.
Your interpretation isn't wrong - just meaningless. Rey doesn't think those things, nor does showing her with a rebel helmet add anything to the audience's overall understanding of the story.
This is literally what Jar Jar does, what he has always done: he copies things he sees in others without understanding them, which is why he hasn't made a single amazing movie in his entire fucking life. Everything he has made is average or worse, and this is no exception.
So you can take that interpretation and put it right where it belongs, in the trash. It has no value in the overall interpretation of the movie. A scene is just another part of the movie. So long as the movie itself (you know, those other 120 something minutes) contradict the scene that takes a few seconds, the scene can essentially be disregarded, or pointed out as a fault in the director that doesn't see the incongruity.
>>64282974
This isn't /b/ or /v/ kid
> Saw TFA for first time
> Didn't like it
> Watched it again anyway
WTF?
>>64283060
Here's the problem, you're incapable of watching a film where the lead character's statements contradict their internal feelings. Rey wanting to return to Jakku because of her family while simultaneously wanting to leave is internal conflict 101. She hates Jakku, but she wants a family. It's the typical fear any teenager has while leaving their hometown to go to college. You're being belligerent now; you even concede that the scene intended to mean something, but moved the goalpost to complain about its contextual placement within the story.
>>64283612
It's not moving the goal post, you're just being arbitrarily narrow in your definition of meaning. It means nothing within the context of the film. It doesn't inform how Rey behaves. It doesn't inform why she does what she does. It's a meaningless scene that could have been cut and everything that happens would happen in the exact same way.
>>64283729
>it doesn't inform how Rey behaves
Why would she fight Kylo and attempt to train with Luke if she honestly just cared about returning to Jakku to wait for her family? Why wouldn't she just give up BB-8 and go on with her life? She very clearly didn't want to continue to live the life she had.
>>64283952
because the orange goblin told her that the person she was waiting for wouldnt come back, but at that point it didnt matter cos she was already far from jakku and never had a chance to return anyway
>>64283952
>Why would she fight Kylo
Probably because he was trying to kill/kidnap her. You're seriously suggesting she fought Ren because she didn't want to live on Jakku? What was he going to force her to scavenge on Jakku after defeating her or something?
>attempt to train with Luke
Probably because she inexplicably started firing off every single force power in the book.
>Why wouldn't she just give up BB-8 and go on with her life?
No fucking clue. She thinks of it like a person? She's an advocate for droid rights? She has some weird droid fetish, maybe? Keeping a droid has nothing to do with living or not living on Jakku.
why do most people who hate tfa suddenly saying that the prequels were good? can't we just agree that all these films were horseshit and were only made to sell stupid merchandise made from third world kids?
>>64284133
Maz was telling her what she already knew, hence her getting angry and running away.
>but at that point it didnt matter cos she was already far from jakku and never had a chance to return anyway
She had the millennium falcon by the end. The reason she didn't return is because she accepted the fact that she's a Jedi, not because she thought "well fuck it i'm too far now."
>>64284265
yes she didnt need to go back, but it wasnt a conflict. she just didnt need to go back anymore
>>64284154
So you're saying that she never consciously makes the decision to let go of Jakku and become a Jedi? She had multiple chances to go back by the end, but never does.
>>64275912
>now
MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE
>>64284375
I'm saying that none of the things you mentioned have a single thing to do with her seeing herself in that old woman. If they cut that scene entirely, she'd still keep BB-8, she'd still fight Ren, and she'd still seek out Luke for training. Her attachment or lack thereof to Jakku have nothing to do with these events.
>>64284503
>If they cut that scene entirely, she'd still keep BB-8, she'd still fight Ren, and she'd still seek out Luke for training.
Same with binary sunset. Expressing internalization through film language isn't the same as advancing the plot. They can almost always be removed without affecting the proceeding sequence of events.
>Her attachment or lack thereof to Jakku have nothing to do with these events.
She wouldn't train with Luke if she cared about returning to Jakku.
>>64284375
well no actually, she doesnt
compared to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P4Q50PiGCo
she really doesnt, at least the movie doesnt show it
>>64284691
It's less obvious, but the fact that she doesn't go back the multiple chances she gets to is a clear indication. It's shown rather than stated in TFA.
>>64284646
>They can almost always be removed without affecting the proceeding sequence of events.
Then why did you literally just offer them as examples as to how Rey's desire to leave affected how she behaves?
>She wouldn't train with Luke if she cared about returning to Jakku.
Sure, she would. First, Maz already told her no one was coming back. This is what effected her choice not to return, not seeing some old lady on Jakku. Second, when it became clear she was strongly force sensitive half way through the film, that could easily override any obligation she felt to return to Jakku. The deciding factor being the radical shift in her own abilities.
>>64284860
it isnt shown. it just 'happens' and we the audience must assume it because thats what would make the most sense
>>64284860
She gets one chance at the very end of the film. What multiple chances are you referring to?
Because when a films main character has zero development and is literally killing the canon because she can is fucking stupid.
>"Oh hey guys, I can use the force just as good as Yoda on MY FIRST FUCKING TRY"
Absolute shit, fucking dropped
http://www.atlredline.com/if-you-think-rey-is-overpowered-in-star-wars-the-sexis-1750161638
This makes it even worse, stupid bitches trying to call sexism
>>64282760
>Quoting Wikipedia
>A source anyone can edit
>Which has been edited to reflect the modern narrative that the OT is the crowning gem of cinema
It was largely reviled by critics whose opinions counted. Read some film history books instead of Wikipedia sometime you raging faggot.
>>64275912
you mean the early premiers that were viewed by paid critics with Non-disparagement clauses and paid for by disney?
>>64284878
>Then why did you literally just offer them as examples as to how Rey's desire to leave affected how she behaves?
Why use binary sunset as an example of Luke's desire to leave when it's already articulated in the conversations he has with his uncle?
>First, Maz already told her no one was coming back.
Why would she assume that Maz knows that? She flat-out denies Maz's offer.
>that could easily override any obligation she felt to return to Jakku.
It's overridden because it replaces her need to wait for her family. So instead of the conflicted feelings of waiting for her family and getting off Jakku, she has the congruent feeling of finding a new family and wanting to stay off Jakku. This desire to get off Jakku is still required, otherwise she'd have no motivation to seek out a life in other planets.
>pro and anti skub both clutching at straws
fuck you all, it was a simple, satisfying movie.
it wasn't amazing, but the people trying to nitpick are making weak justifications to call this 2/10.
To summarize:
>Rey's character was weakened by having too many good traits/abilities, the rest were likable characters (though development is lacking in the most part)
>Because this is meant to be a new series of SW movies, it is okay to leave some elements unexplained for the time being granted with some exceptions
>The story did make sense, the motivations were clear, and people who say otherwise are either contrarian or dense.
Star wars is great, but fuck, there is only one film in the entire series that is a masterpiece.
>>64285489
>Why use binary sunset as an example of Luke's desire to leave when it's already articulated in the conversations he has with his uncle?
It reinforces what is already stated outright. In TFA you're talking about something that contradicts what is stated outright. In the original trilogy, each scene serves to build the characters. In TFA, they simply contradict each other.
>Why would she assume that Maz knows that? She flat-out denies Maz's offer.
Why wouldn't she? She's spooked because she just had some crazy vision.
>It's overridden because it replaces her need to wait for her family.
You're saying that Rey has zero desire to find her family now? Just because she made some friends she suddenly stops caring entirely? How can you simultaneously argue that early on in the film she can have conflicting feelings, but at the end she cannot?
>>64277730
All of this is true.
On the other hand, I wont hate it before I get to see the other two. I think there's some openings to a trilogy that can actually become good. But it needs to expand some of the politics. It doesn't need to go full prequel, but right now it seems that the once mighty republic with 1000s of systems apparently was only 5 planets, and that the empire didn't really need it anyway. Poor Sheev - all that scheming for nothing.
I can see the potential and the greatness in the film both. I will not be swayed by petty arguments from fourth rate criticism.
>>64285682
I watched it twice and really liked it, I agree with a lot of the concerns that have been posted here.. but I still really like it.
>>64276086
>>64276135
watching a movie more than once is admitting your inablility to pay attention
>>64285854
>In TFA you're talking about something that contradicts what is stated outright. In the original trilogy,
How utterly fucking simplistic. Again, it's implied that wants have a different life, but is afraid to leave due to the potential of her family coming back. Internal conflict; basic character trope. The world calls her to adventure, which is the first step of Campbell's Hero's journey.
>How can you simultaneously argue that early on in the film she can have conflicting feelings, but at the end she cannot?
It's called a character arc. The film is her learning to let go.
>>64286280
>The world calls her to adventure
And she refuses. Then it calls again, and she refuses. Her acceptance is entirely sudden and doesn't follow her repeated refusal. It's not a natural arc. You have a starting character and an ending character, but nothing that explains how the former got to the latter.
>>64286417
Jesus dude, the film explicitly ends with her accepting. The final shot is ostensibly her asking Luke to train her.
>but nothing that explains how the former got to the latter.
Finding her force powers. This film treats Rey's arc like a superhero origin story. Whether you like that or not, like in every other superhero story it was the discovery of those powers that became the impetus for her accepting the responsibilities that those powers entail.
>>64287363
I'm starting to think this dude is right
