Just watched TFA
I actually liked Kylo Ren. The only thing I didn't like was some of his dialogue was cheesy, like him talking about his pull to the light side with Vader's mask. Just could have been worded differently. Otherwise there's great room for character development for him and Rey.
And I don't know why anyone in their right mind would think Kylo would come back to the Light.
TAKE THIS WHITE SEXIST SCUM
>>64237437
Finn should have been the jedi.Rey could have been jango fett type of character but as a hero.
>>64237384
He's another thrilling, non-whiny member of the Skywalker family
>>64237384
He did have a few cheese lines, but I liked him as well.
I think people might consider the possibility of him coming back to the light because he's struggling just to fight the draw of the light. He's going above and beyond to avoid the light opposed to just naturally choosing the dark side. It's a clear sign of internal strife that could honestly go either way depending on where they want to take this trilogy.
> like him talking about his pull to the light side with Vader's mask.
literally my favorite line you fucking nertard!
>>64237623
There can only be one black jedi.
>>64237623
Why does he hit himself like that? I know he got shot and it hurts, but wouldn't that make it worst?
>>64237384
>Show me again, the power of the darkness, and I'll let nothing stand in our way. Show me, grandfather, and I will finish what you started.
that was the best line what the fuck.
>>64238208
kek
>>64238295
to make him even more angry,
>let the rage flow through you
>>64238295
Maybe he wants to use pain and those bad emotions to buff his dark side abilities.
Besides, when I'm in some extreme pain I tend to supress it the same way - I push on the soring part of my body. Doesn't matter if it's a tooth, hand or knee - it helps somehow.
He's a good character but an awful fucking villain
>>64238410
thats the point of the movie.having a voice box and having the force doesnt hide the fact that hes not done training.pretty reflecting of the First Order.
>>64238493
he shouldn't have been the main villain then. There was nobody threatening to the heroes
>>64237623
>Rey could have been jango fett type of character but as a hero.
>tfw no Rey clone to have sex with
>>64238556
Snoke is the "real villian."
Do all your antagonists have to be super menacing and completely evil?
The best conflicts are when both sides appear to be like real people, with real emotions and faults.
The end Star Wars stories and characters are those that delve into the grey. Things become much more interesting in that universe when morality isn't so defined.
>>64238295
To remind the audience that he is injured.
in-film reason was probably because he was either in pain or trying to make himself more angry.
>>64238295
I think it was, oh shit I'm losing blood and might pass out and need to focus and hitting himself helped him snap himself out of it.
Just my opinion.
Have you ever been zoned out or needed to stay awake and not fall asleep? Pinching yourself makes you focus again.
>>64238665
>The best Star Wars stories and characters...
>>64238665
That would work better in an universe where the dark side wasn't objectively evil and the good guys objectively good from second one, though.
>>64238665
i'm not talking about morals i'm talking about tension
there's really no tension when all your villains are incompetent failures
>>64238824
Tension doesn't come from a terrifying villian. The goal of the protagonists in the final scene was to get the fuck off Starkiller base, not to engage in an epic good verses evil battle to defeat the evil sith. The tension increased because Ren was getting in their way. Besides the lure of the dark side, Rey didn't finish him off because she accomplished her goal--removing the obstruction (Kylo) to the Falcon so she can get the fuck off the base before it blows up.
>>64238726
There's numerous media (cannon and Legends) that show the grey morality in Star Wars. Not to mention the subject of redemption and returning to the light has been done again and again in various tales with various characters.
>>64239293
>Tension doesn't come from a terrifying villian
yes it does. If a villain is incompetent the audience will not see him as an obstacle
kylo was alright until that final act. first he kills his dad in the most edgelord way and then gets btfo by rey who is supposed to be a total noob.
the combination of those two really undermined his character and made for a really anti-climactic ending
>>64237384
He's pretty good. Makes a better "young Vader" than Hayden Christensen did. I like the way he sort of switches modes. When the mask is on, he's Vader. When it's off, he's a whiny insecure padawan again. I love the duality.
>>64239743
Except he's whiny as fuck even with the mask on and has temper tantrums when stuff doesn't go his way.
There's no duality, he's just a whiny, angsty shit
>>64239806
Rewatching the OT I noticed that Vader was actually pretty whiny and prone to get tantrums. He was just more cool about it and had more class, being a mature man who ruled the galaxy and not some edgy teenager fanboy. But he was a total emo asshole.
>>64239625
There is no super scary evil villian in plenty of literature and television and film, and you can get tense scenes without a villian.
I just finished reading Roadside Picnic and there was no villian or evil, but there was plenty of stuff to give dramatic tension.
X-Files often had wonderful episodes with antagonists that weren't super evil, or sometimes no antagonist at all in standalone episodes. Or when the "villian" is fully exposed, he becomes much less terrifying, and you even sympathize.
>>64239806
I think the temper tantrums and angsty shit worked this time, where it didn't in the prequels. For one, they don't take up a third of the movie. And you're not supposed to be rooting for Ren, whereas Anakin was a main protagonist (who you're not supposed to dislike so much). There is a duality, and it's still present when the mask is on, sure. You can tell how hard he's trying to be James Earl Jones' Vader, but inside he's Christensens Anakin. And old Vader threw tantrums as well, he was just a bit quieter about it. He never smashed up a control panel, but he was just looking for excuses to force choke a mofo.
>>64237384
Star wars has always had cheesy dialogue.
>>64240058
You're losing his point and confusing terrifying with evil. His point was that there's no tension because Kylo is shown as incompetent, a Team Rocket kind of villain you expect to be defeated. You can get tension as long as the obstacles the protagonist faces are well presented as threatening, terrifying, something to worry about at the end. No matter if they're people, natural disasters or simply situations, but different kinds of obstacles have different ways to be portrayed as threatening and proficiency is pretty much a must if said obstacle is the main antagonist.
>>64237623
>>64240316
The point is that his entire persona and fear factor is a mask, not his true nature.
He even said his opinion of Kylo comes from the end of the movie. Therefore he was intimidating and seemingly unbeatable for the first 3/4 of the movie. Which I think is nice, you don't understand his full nature all at the beginning.
You have to admit he seemed pretty badass stopping that bolt midair and making Rey unconscious with a wave of his hand.
This also sets him up for character growth. Snoke's last lines in the movie are about how now is the time to complete Kylo's training.
He is Luke Skywalker in the OT, following the dark side of the Hero's Journey formula. Which requires you getting your ass handed to you, only to come back stronger. It is a quintessential trope of the hero, except they are applying it to the antagonist this go around.
>>64237623
>>64237437
>People still pretend this was not one of the best lightsaber fights ever.
The film was overall shitty and Rey doesnt work at all, but the rest was pretty fucking excellent, and Kylo Ren is by far the best character of TFA
>>64240514
People complain about how much TFA is a clone of A New Hope but then they complain about how Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader.
Pretty dumb and retarded I think.
>>64239806
He's not whiny though.
He gets shit done and looks quite dangerous.
Why the fuck do you want him to be Vader?
It's like you want the same characters all over again-
>>64240765
>Why the fuck do you want him to be Vader?
Indeed. His first couple of scenes, I thought it was a shameless Vader-alike and I was disappointed by the laziness. Liked him much better when they started displaying his angst and vulnerability.
>>64240654
it's because Kylo is superficially a clone of Darth Vader (for the marketing) but unlike Darth Vader doesn't work as an impressive villain. building him up as a visual analogue for Darth makes his emoness disappointing, not interesting. then he loses to Rey and is still treated like he's being rewarded with more training, which makes Snoke look retarded as well.
original ideas that don't do the job they're trying to do are as bad as direct clones. see Rey being a more perfect version of Luke.
>>64240765
>He gets shit done
he murdered two unarmed old men and narrowly beat a non-Jedi in saber combat.
>>64241560
How would you suggest fixing the character?
>>64241560
Snoke was referring to him killing his father.
Also probably suffering a defeat from the first jedi he has crossed blades with. He normally fought people with blasters. The philosophy of "what doesn't kill you makes you atronger" is something Sith like.
The movies and related material talked about physical combat and having to adjust for different foes. Many jedi were defeated by Count Dooku because his lightsaber form was efficient against other opponents with lightsabers. Most jedi trained in other forms because their primary enemy wielded a blaster or other projectile.
>>64241560
exactly. his "character progression" is backwards, we learn that as a villain he is worse than when he started
its a real anti-climax
>>64238410
Nah, he was threatening enough in the first half to give us the Vader knockoff we wanted, but turning him into a wuss in the second half gave his character more depth for the subsequent episodes to explore. He was the best part of the movie by far
If you want Vader again, just go watch 4-6 again.
>>64242127
>his "character progression" is backwards
That's what makes it so interesting though. In a film that's basically an 80s Lucas knockoff from head to toe, flipping the script on the villain was a breath of fresh air
I wonder what Han did to him. Bet he Solohandidly Leia'd a hand on his Organaand still came first
>>64237437
This was the best lightsaber fight in the franchise. Only dumb kids and autists disagree.
>>64238295
He was literally bleeding to death. That makes you go unconscious. Pain was keeping him awake.
>>64242360
In terms of choreography it's great, but it would have been much more impactful if it occurred at the end of Episode VIII, after Rey received some training by Luke
>>64238295
I figured he was doing it to get a surge of adrenaline from the pain, so that he could stay focused because he was losing a lot of blood.
>>64242267
>its better cos its different
>>64243265
>I love watching the same kind of story with the same character archetypes again and again
>>64237437
>>64237623
Perhaps the best duel sequences in the entire franchise
Just saw TFO today and fuck do I get tired of this feminist bullshit. Get your own movie you dirty fucks.
But all of this aside, I do not think that Disney did it for some white male genocide conspiracy bullshit. Its all about the money. They know that every white nerd will watch it 5 times and now they want to reach the wallets out of women and minorities. But it sucks how that bitch is all like "I dont need no man to control this ship"
Overall it gets a 7/10 at best.
>>64245842
literally the only overr feminist shit was when she said stop taking my hand. cool those heels cleetus
>>64245902
overt*
>>64245902
not him but it's more like the whole movie
>she engineers
>she pilots
>she fights
>she shoots
>lol the force
how trite
>>64245902
Yeah right also notice how 99.9% of the evil empire were white men? Clearly there is no need for diversity there.
I am telling you bro shit is fucked
>>64245969
literally luke. Except that they expedited her development a bit too soon, which is the only criticism i'd personally go along with
>>64246021
That's just confirmation bias, imo
>>64241673
You just needed to have the final battle be going in his way when the planet cracks.
Sure, the girl can be stronger mentally, as he is still conflicted, but the magnitude with wich the last fight doesn't make any sense overshadow anything else.
We're talking of a universe where literal jedi jesus was defeated because his fighting technique was weaker against the one of his opponent, a universe where luke spendt a whole movie deflecting lazers from flying toys, and here at the first time holding a lightsaber the mc can defeat a trained (not fully trained but still trained) sith.
>>64246077
>That's just confirmation bias, imo
Go fuck yourself the only reason why Han Solo was killed off was because he is to politically incorrect for Disney. If he should die, he should go off as a rock star but no they had him pussified too with "Oh my deer son, dont go to the dark side!" Fuck that shit
>>64246021
One of the officers inside Star Killer Base was a black chick
>>64246077
>literally Luke
all in one movie? with no training? no, that's the entire crux of the problem
on top of look never being known as a shooter or engineer
>>64245902
It is harder to run while holding hands, to be fair.
>>64246286
Yeah exactly 1 of 100 of them = 99.9%
>>64246300
You really think that in this political climate that it is just confirmation bias? Sure I admit that I am abit delusional but I am not completely wrong here.
>>64246290
I guess you skipped the stuff i said after
>literally luke
dat selective reading
>>64246370
True enough. But the tone of how she said it suggested she didn't like people holding her hand
Also
>let go, please
>don't get excited
>captain, being held by you isn't quite enough to get me excited
Also look at Han's lips when she says that. You'll see it every tiem now
>>64246370
>don't need to hold me man, i'm IN-DE-PEN-DENT
>did you hear it girls? that's what we are
>oh wait, you didn't hear it? let me try again
>OH WOW YOU ARE TAKING IT AGAIN? WE ARE IN-DE-PEN-DENT I TELL YOU
p.s. i don't regard this as a problem, but the reason why that line was how it was is so obvious defending it is impossible
>>64246471
>99.9
99, actually
Yes it perfectly is confirmation bias becuase
>womyn protag
>white dude villains
>omg SJWs are responsible!
>male protag
>white dude villains
>no remarks
>>64238824
They said Kylo turned six years before TFA, so it makes sense he's still not 'complete' yet.
>>64246518
>dat selective reading
ITS THE WHOLE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU TIT
>>64246548
>>64245902 here
Thats why I said that was literally the only overt case of MUH STRONK INDEPNDONT WOMYN
Just expressing agreement
>>64245192
literally every movie that comes out every year.
I bet you watch capeshit
>>64246622
Wait, so Kylo went to the dark side only 6 years before TFA events happened?
Why didn't he use force lightning? He seems gifted enough to use it.
>>64246615
All I am saying is that the whole relationship is fucked. When a male student has a male master, he listens to him, looks up to him and looks for his advice and compliments
But because it is a women this time she dun need no man and can do it all herself. It just completely disconnects from how star wars was.
Not to mention a huge majority of the hardcore star wars fans are white male, and Disney completely shat on them
>>64246888
he didn't even use force push. Well actually he did, and it worked perfectly against fin, so of course he couldn't just use it again against rey
>>64246021
There are several female officers, captain phasma, another female storm trooper that tells Kylo that Rey isn't in the hangar when she's running around the base.
>>64246290
Remember this? Luke did this with just a lil pep talk from Ben
>>64246932
He did use it against Rey at the start of the forest fight.
>>64246794
My friend and I were talking about that. It makes sense, because otherwise Kylo's gone dark side for like 10 years and snoke's never gotten aroudn to training him kek.
Which makes the question of why Rey would be left on the planet 8 years prior to that, harder to answer
>>64247144
I'm sorry but was Luke in a life or death situation then? Was he able to crush a Sith apprentice first try? He barely even passed that test.
>>64247394
>>64247394
Skip to 11:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBG2rJZGW8
at first I was like "faget." but then "finally a young, struggling villain who´s not overpowered" and I liked that idea
also like the jedi girl, she´s strong without passing the small feminism-cunt-line
just saw it aswell some hours ago, best scene were those two stormtroopers who were like "nopenopenope" when Rey was raging in that room
>>64248210
>Ren
But yes, all told the movie was great. Very excited for the rest of the series. I hope Finn's goofiness is played down a bit though, it was a little too crazy.
>>64248210
>>64248491
Here come the "reddit" posts. Thanks
>>64249096
here comes the 4chan classic: everything i disagree with is reddit
Kylo was awesome, loved his character.
The only reasons why he didn't take out Rey was because he was injured and struggling with the fact he just killed his dad.
>>64249170
I meant it more as a slate against how this board works but I do think your opinion is shit as well.
>>64245902
Maybe she just didn't want anybody to think she's dating a black guy.
The best part of TFA was establishing that the light side has a pull. Formerly it was always the case that the light required control and you had to resist the pull to the dark side but this flipped the script quite nicely.
I thought Ren was a really interesting villain and did angsty teen way better than Anakin.
>>64242414
What's the deal with lightsabres anyway?
Are they really harder to handle than any other weapon?
If not then it's not to much of a wild idea that someone who grew up alone as a scavanger would be able to fight, right?
>>64238046
i think Rey is gonna turn dark, she always seem to be able to tap into the force in situations when she has something to be angry at.
>>64237384
Kylo Ren is great. He's the only character in that film with any depth or any sort of character arc.
Honestly, if it weren't for him, I'd probably be done with Star Wars. Instead, I'll watch to see what happens to him. As far as I'm concerned, he's the main character.
>>64250284
Same for me. He's the only character with any sort of interesting direction
>>64246119
People always talk about the final fight of TFA as if it was a fight in Kylos favor but he was already shot and got nicked by a lightsaber.
Not to mention the complete neglect of Rye's fighting skills. Although she has never trained with a lightsabre she most likely has too have bin in a few fights when she grew up.
>>64245969
The fact that she is able to handle herself in a brawl isn't all that surprising considering she was a lone-wolf scavenger since she was a child.
Seeing as both Anakin and Luke were naturally proficient pilots makes Rey being a good pilot not all that groundbreaking.
Rey has been scavenging tech all her life so she was bound to pick up on a few things making her an excellent mechanic.
Now when it comes to her being so easily able to tap into the powers of the force during extreme circumstances, I theories that she draws power from her feelings of anger, hatred and such. Implying that she is corrupted by the dark side and will turn out too become evil.
