>thirty years old
>trained under both Luke and Snoke, presumably has around twenty years of training/experience
>shown multiple times doing master-level force shit like freezing blaster bolts in mid air and then nonchalantly going about talking and walking around
>loses to someone who has had zero training and has never used the force or a lightsaber before
>doesn't use the force during the fight for zero reason
>>64145795
He's thirty?
Really?
>>64145795
>Gets shot with a bow-caster through the stomach (which instakilled everyone else in the movie)
>Opponent has proven herself to be a nimble and competent fighter throughout the movie, especially with her staff.
>Head is mashed up as fuck after killing his Dad and realizing he probably isn't the one to carry on Vader's legacy.
>Has probably never engaged in a real lightsaber fight himself seeing as no-one else has one; certainly hasn't had to fight in recent years as he simply bullies people with the force and only whips out his saber to intimidate.
>Opponent has just discovered the force and is calm and collected as fuck
Doesn't seem that implausible to me...
>>64145795
Rey is the strongest force use now. It's obvious what Disney, JJ and Kasdan want.
>>64146022
>Has probably never engaged in a real lightsaber fight himself seeing as no-one else has one; certainly hasn't had to fight in recent years as he simply bullies people with the force and only whips out his saber to intimidate.
He has definitely had a lot sabre training with Luke and Snoke. He deflected Rey's gunshots with his lighsabre in the forest, showing he is a potent lightsabre wielder.
>>64145834
Apnot OP but Adam Driver is thirty so yeah its safe to assume
she has the power of womanhood
nothing is stronger than a mother
>>64146022
>Has probably never engaged in a real lightsaber fight himself seeing as no-one else has one; certainly hasn't had to fight in recent years as he simply bullies people with the force and only whips out his saber to intimidate.
this is actually a really good point I haven't thought about
>>64146181
Deflecting shots is literally the easiest thing to do with a light sabre as a force sensitive person, literally the first thing Luke was taught.
I don't think he got taught to use a light sabre from Luke, Luke was never taught how to use one, so why would he teach his students?
>>64145795
The force was not with him :^)
>>64146234
He probably has while killing off luke's other apprentices. The thing is that he was badly wounded even at the start. He should have just let her go. Also he seems to not want to kill her since at the end he say he wants to train her in the force.
he's super weakened when he gets beat, and it's unlikely that he would have lost if he weren't weakened. i felt this was explicit with him holding his wound throughout the battle sequence and the multiple shots of him panting and wincing in pain. i get wanting to shit on the movie and everything but your complaint isnt even real.
>>64146497
OP is acting like a politician and just presenting parts of the story just to further his own gains
>>64146540
>OP is acting like a penis and just presenting parts of the penis just to further his own penis
>>64146219
Mothers are weak compared to women who choose not to have children.
>>64145834
Yeah he is 30 he was born right after RotJ ended. I don't care to cite the source but its on wookiepedia go look up kylo ren there
>>64146497
Uh, actually, he punches his wound. Multiple times. He feeds off of the pain to give him power.
>>64146234
Not really. Seeing as he carved up Finn pretty quickly and threw her into a tree using a force push. Not to mention he killed the old man with the lightsaber. I just don't understand why he would use the force to toss her aside like a rag doll but all of a sudden can't just freeze her and knock her out like he did the first time. She had no business holding a candle to him in that fight except for "muhh stronk womyn"
>>64146737
Yeah but he's still bleeding to death.
>>64146641
Wookiepedia doesn't work for me. All the Wikia projects seem to be down for me.
>>64146737
>takes a blaster shot directly to the chest shown to devastate everything it touches
>winded and wounded from a fierce fight with Finn
>dealing with Rey who has hand to hand fighting skills that he hasn't competed against in some time
>she is clearly demonstrating that she's some sort of force prodigy
did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe Kylo just isn't that strong of a force user? other than catching the bolt in mid air and supposedly mindfucking someone nothing he did was truly impressive
>>64146737
>He feeds off of the pain to give him power.
Is that really why he did that?
>>64146784
http://prntscr.com/9j0ejl
>>64146836
He literally froze Rey, put her arm down, walked up to her, snapped his fingers, and she passed out. That shit was impressive as fuck.
>>64146847
Yup. Thats why he kept punching his wound.
>>64146836
>stop blaster shots mid air effortlessly
>not a strong force user
>>64147125
>>64146836
>literally does 5 things nobody else has ever been seen done with the force, and all of them are badass
>not a strong force user
lolwut? cuz stopping blaster shots mid air while you didn't even know the shooter was there, using the force to freeze anybody you like and pull them to you, and vulcan mind meld using the force are all just weak shit right?
>>64147197
oh and I forgot being able to just snap your fingers and knock them out, as the 5th. My bad.
>>64145795
You forgot the faggot takes a tantrum like a 2 year old.
Keep in mind that he fought with mary sue
>>64145795
Why do you hate women.
>>64146847
>Is that really why he did that?
It is what you do on the Emo side of the Force.
>>64145795
>dude is bleeding from massive stomach wound
>before and during fight punches self to regain composure
Do you guys not see this stuff when you watch a movie?
All that had to happen was for Rei to out up a fight but get bested in the end. Then just as she's going to be killed the ground splits and separates them.
Rei needs more training to win, Kylo isn't made to look like a huge pussy.
But no, little ms.perfect wins. Awful movie.
>>64146022
I know it isn't necessarily related to your post but the way he uses his lightsaber is my favourite style, the fact he seems to just go for brute force and strength whacking at the other rather than stupid spins and jumps
>>64145795
>I was only nine years old
>I loved Darth Vader so much, I owned all the helmets and black capes
>I pray to Vader every night, thanking him for the Midichlorians I have been given
>"Vader is love", I say, "Vader is life"
>My dad hears me and calls me a nerf herder
>He is obviously jealous of my devotion to Vader
>I called him a TRAITOR
>He shoots me in the chest and sends me to my room
>I am crying now, because my chest hurts
>I go into my bed and it is very cold
>I hear a mechanical breathing moving towards me
>I sense a presence
>It's Vader
>I am so happy
>He whispers into my ear, "I am your grandfather"
>He grabs me with the force and lifts me in the air
>I'm ready
>I gasp for air for Vader
>He chokes my throat
>It hurts so much, but I do it for Vader
>I can feel my lungs tearing as my eyes start to water
>I push against the Force
>I want to please Vader
>He turns on his lightsaber as he asks me about the plans to the Death Star
>My dad walks in
>Vader looks him deep in the eyes and says, "I don't like sand"
>Vader flies away on his TIE fighter
Vader is love, Vader is life
>>64148521
This.
Bleeding stomach wound. He's bleeding out, face is pale from blood loss. He's already an emo boy with light/dark side conflict, now he just killed daddy so he's clearly not going to be all that attuned to the force.
Plus he offers to take Rey as an apprentice.
Not only did they power Ren down in every conceivable way, but they gave an additional out that he may have not even been going for the kill to begin with.
The thing is that most of these are explained in the movie not even subtly (even if you don't like the explanation)
But some of you kids are severly retarded you can't even pick up hints like these
>>64146163
Anakin was the strongest force user and Dooku carved his arms off like turkey drumsticks
>>64149028
Strongest potential perhaps, not the strongest. Yoda was superior in every way.
>>64148546
Just like the originals before the fat fuck lucas thought dance routines were what saber fights were.
Say what you will about the TFA, but my god was it fresh air compared to the prequels.
>>64145795
>master-level force shit like freezing blaster bolts in mid air
That's not master in the slightest
Remember kiddies before The Force Unleashed the force was basically just running around with a an invisible cable and using it for various things. After TFU it's like running around with a goddamn ion canon.
The force needs to be showcased properly but as long as Jew Jew Abrams is anywhere near the series it will be shit
>>64145795
remember that crossblaster that was knocking away 5 stormtroopers at a time like an hour earlier in the movie?
Kylo took a direct hit from that (he would literally be dead without body armor), got stabbed by Finn and then finally gets slashed by Rey. After he just committed patricide and faced the greatest temptation of his life.
So yeah I'm completely ok with him getting his ass kicked by Rey.
>>64148584
kek
>>64149170
>The Force Unleashed
Thank god that piece of shit isn't cannon anymore. I still can't believe the fucks made a second one too.
>>64145795
CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS
Why didn't Anakin just force ghost to Kylo and tell him that the dark side sucks ass?
>>64149184
He was also doubting himself throughout the entire movie and that is the biggest weakness a force user can have. Just look at how scared he is when Rey resists his mind reading and uses it against him.
Make a Jedi or Sith lose faith in themselves and they start to fall apart. Ren thought killing Han would give him the resolve he needed to fully sucumb to the Dark side but was instead left in despair.
>>64149291
Force ghosts can only appear after recent deaths, not like 30 years after.
>>64149316
Source?
>>64149316
So how did Qui Gon appear to Yeddo in ROTS?
>>64149384
Because thats only 13 years :^)
>>64149170
The old Sith used to be super fucking powerful
Darth Nihlus could absorb entire worlds of their life force to sate his hunger, Revan and Malak almost destroyed the Republic, Bane killed almost all the Sith
>>64149354
I just checked on wookiepedia
(I'm the guy who originally asked the question) it says its not permanent because its like limbo
This state was temporary, as Force ghosts were an intermediate state between life and afterlife; after a certain amount of time, they would then have to move on to the Netherworld of the Force, another realm of existence.
Though I'm pretty sure Anakin could of been a force ghost till at least Kylo was like 8 or could remember him for sure as a ghost
>>64149398
12 year old Kylo could of talked to anakin then
>>64146477
Isn't creating your own lightsaber something that a graduate jedi has to do?
I doubt anyone in Luke's lessons ever got that far.
>>64145795
He was wounded by Chewie, tired out by Finn and then beaten by Rey, you fucking retard. It took all three of them together to defeat him. It wasn't even subtle, so it's your own fault for missing it.
>>64149415
Yeah, Jedi usually make their lightsabers at the very end of their training
>>64149415
Kylo was a full adult and murked some other guys with light sabres in the flashback with the other knights of ren
>>64149406
>12 year old Kylo could of talked to anakin then
Why would he? He was training with Luke then.
>>64149452
Anakin might want to catch up with his family? Why wouldn't he talk to them if he could. Anakin has always been a selfish little shit. Would probably spend all night talking about how fun podracing was and he's the chosen one
>>64149452
He obviously wanted the beauty tips and life tips on how to be an emo bitch.
The book says that Snoke was active in the Clone Wars, so who is he?
He doesn't seem to be a Sith, as he admires both the light and the dark side, which is why he chose Kylo
So who is he? Some guy who has a bunch of Sith holocrons?
>>64146022
>Opponent has proven herself to be a nimble and competent fighter throughout the movie, especially with her staff.
You mean the opponent who was getting her ass handed to her until she went: "Oh right, I has the Force!" ?
>Has probably never engaged in a real lightsaber fight himself seeing as no-one else has one; certainly hasn't had to fight in recent years as he simply bullies people with the force and only whips out his saber to intimidate.
What the fuck do you think happened to Luke's other apprentices?
>>64145795
>muh powerlevels
Fucking Disney understands SW and the Force better than you. Fuck off to your video games.
Does he even know Vader turned good and killed the Emperor?
I can imagine Luke confronting him and telling him this and then he gets super butthurt about it
>>64149452
Though I can answer my own question.
According to an interview with J,J abrahms (i'l find it if people are interesting enough) He says that Kylo believes in Vaders ideals not anakins and believes he lost his power by going back to the light side of the force
>>64149170
The "proper" Force was in ANH.
>>64149540
He wants to use both the light and the dark side, but he doesn't want to be "Good"
So he probably knows, but wants to succeed where Vader failed, use the dark side and the light, but not have to succumb to the light
Hence "Succeed where he failed"
>>64149540
Yes? He talks with Snoke about it.
tfw mary sue beats a sith master because she hast the thickest plot armor in all of star wars
Every other protagonist has had major flaws, has been defeated, has had to be saved, has taken a long time to become a competent fighter against the powerful sith/ dangerous empire.
mary sue waltzes in flies the milenium falcon first try, knows how to fix it better than han, beats sith lord first try, does force pull and jedi mind tricks first try.
there is NO WAY a male character would of gotten away with this. not in the star wars universe.
>>64149291
Because Lucas replaced the at-peace-grandfatherly-looking Old Anakin with Rapist Evil McFace Young Anakin as the Force Ghost in RotJ.
It was all part of the plan.
>>64149591
remember how long it took luke to learn to use the force? i guess mary sue is just a god tier master jedi with 0 training.even if it turns out shes been trained and forgot about it (which probably didnt happen) her power and infallibility is retarded.
>>64149474
>>64149591
With JJA? The genre isn't relevant. Have you watched his ST movies? They're even more Mary Sue's than Rey.
>>64145795
he's a pathetic faggot that lost to a little girl, I have no idea how anyone can take him seriously in future movies
>>64149692
If it isn't my good friend, ol' spidey-legs!!
So can we come to the conclusion that the republic has failed at least in policing the galaxy?
The First Order has been operating for 20-30 years. They haven't even felt threatened enough to resort to using clones (remember they also train their soldiers from birth) so the First Order has been raiding numerous planets to kidnap children and turn them into soldiers seeminly without any pushback from the republic (see Jakku) The republic ISN'T fighting the first order. They have a "resistance" fighting instead. The entire (or most) of the republic fleet is stationed on the republics homeplanet not doing anything at all. Is it possible Kylo Ren saw how ineffectual the Republic is and wanted to bring back the empire ? (explaining why he enjoys VADERS ideals and think he became weak by going back to the light side)
You're aware that him being trained under both Luke and Snoke is a bad thing for his skills, right?
Luke obviously trained him to utilize the light side of the force, which draws it's power from faith, patience and discipline. When Kylo made the switch to the dark side and started training under Snoke, he essentially had to relearn everything he knew up to that point (excluding sword techniques) to adapt to the dark side means of drawing upon the force, through hate and anger.
Think about it. Why would he still be a padawan/acolyte at 30 if this wasn't the case?
>>64149692
Doesn't he die before the events of ANH in the EU?
>>64149732
That would make too much sense. So... no.
>>64149702
Nigga got blasted by Chewie right before.
Also, his puny weaknes makes him more of a personality than anyone else in this flick.
>>64149312
seeing him lashing out with it's saber anytime there something that upset him made me think he was seriously weak mentally. plus wearing a mask for no reason except his vader boner.
>>64149772
Blasted by his Godfather? POTTERY!
>>64149732
It's the same Cold War that the Republic had against the Sith empire that Revan went off to fight, just thousands of years later
The more things change, the more they stay the same
>>64148996
them being explained =/= it makes sense or that those are good reasons, which is what we're talking about.
>>64149755
eu isn't canon though.
>>64149776
He wants to look hot for his waifu Phassma
>>64149790
It is known
https://a.pomf.cat/xsnrpn.webm
>>64149701
why is rey the only mary sue in TFA? she always wins the fight or proves how strong and independent she is. theres no one else close besides poe but he gets captured, tortured, and gives away where the key to the map is. rey never even gets hurt, when captured she out force mindcontrols a sith fuckin lord then uses jedi mind tricks to begin her escape. She could of saved herself by stealing a ship or whatever afterward she just happened to run into grandpa and booga booga. cool how she can pilot ships in space but has never left jakku
>>64149795
But the new film is drawing on some of the EU for inspiration, so I doubt they'd use him
>>64149634
>remember how long it took luke to learn to use the force?
He used it perfectly the first time he was flying a real fighter ever.
Then he almost lifted his X-wing on his first try.
And he was a Jedi after running around with Yoda for a week.
>>64149809
Nah, that would mean that the movie has character development and relationships that aren't OT2.0.
>>64145795
he's afraid to be called a racist and misogynist if he goes all-out.
>>64149438
There were no other lightsabers in the flashback.
>>64149591
I feel that Rey is channeling a bit more of the dark side
Think about it, throughout the entire movie she's very scared and emotional, perfect catalyst for force potential. When she went to fight Kylo, she hated him and would have definitely killed him had she had the chance
>>64149841
I still believe that in his fits of rage he anger fucks Phassma
>>64149836
He was only able to use it the first time because BEN LET HIMSELF BE KILLED SO THAT HE COULD HELP LUKE MAKE THE SHOT!
Ghostly ben was holding his hand the whole time in that trench.
>>64149864
>Rey Sue
>Ever scared or even remotely in danger
Nope. She had perfect composure. Even when she was mildly spooked by the light saber she was fine.
>>64149867
Phasma got crushed in the crashcompactor, no?
>>64149895
She's slated for the next movie I thought?
>>64149891
That's some mental gymnastics nigga.
He just closed his eyes and focused harder to make the shot. Ben didn't do anything but suggest it.
>>64148546
>>64146022
These are good points.
No retarded fucking spinny kicks
>>64149913
hm, she might be, I didn't even check that.
>>64149864
In the novel, she hears a dark voice in her head telling her to kill Kylo.
I don't know how 'canon' that is, or what it means (is it Snoke? The Dark Side? Is she a clone of a fallen Jedi? The last one might explain her skills in the Kylo fight) though.
>>64149946
Especially since she was supposed to be a major character originally
>>64149591
>Kylo
>sith master
kek
KEK
>>64146836
Yeah I just figured he wasn't that good of a force weilder. I feel like that's why he's so obsessed with Vader and living in his shadow. I think he knows he isnt that great either that's why he's so pissed of when he learns about rei.
That might be why he turned to the dark side and killed off the other jedi apprentices of Luke.
>yfw Elliot Rodger's biggest moral quandary was whether or not he was prepared to kill his father
Could Kylo's inspiration be any more obvious?
>>64149692
Snoke's not even the same species as Maul.
>>64146022
>>64146234
He probably spars with TR-8R
>>64146847
I thought it was him pumping himself up. It hurt and he was bleeding pretty badly maybe hitting himself kept him from passing out from blood loss.
And hes angry as fuck.
>>64149913
Clones. They mentioned that they have the tech to do it. It would Pottery the PT with the Jango Clones.
And as a storytelling device, having Finn's desertion be one of the reason for a new clone army would make thematic sense. In the second act, new problems should arise from the hero's attempt at solving his problems.
>>64149776
Exactly. He tries to emulate Vader, but everytime Vader choked a nigga he was calm and collected about it.
>>64149967
Well, a force user's lightsaber skills mostly come from their conviction and connection to the force, not just martial training
You can see this in the old movies, in Empire, Luke is just trying to barely keep it together fighting Vader on Cloud City. Compare that to Return of the Jedi where Vader taunts Luke to turning Leia to the dark side which enrages him and his hate drives him to defeat Vader
>>64150000
Quads confirm kylo for supreme gentleman
>>64148996
I'm confused how people can't watch a movie and see the obvious reasons for something.
Like the blood dripping on the snow and him sweating like a pig.
>>64145795
Are you fucking retarded?
Force ability is determined by midi-chlorians count, not length of time training.
>>64145795
must be hard not being able to have fun
>>64150158
>muh animu power levels
>>64149502
>What the fuck do you think happened to Luke's other apprentices?
They became the Knights of Ren, probably. The movie never says he killed them.
>>64149584
But he saw it as a momentary flicker of weakness and not a permanent redemption. He could still get butthurt by Anakin's force ghost turning up and saying "yeah that whole Dark Side thing was shit"
>>64150131
More and more people have autism. The majority pf people have ADHD because of phones and other mobile devices. The rest are just stupid.
>>64148584
>i don't like sand
kek
>>64149732
now youre just making shit up
>>64150255
All of that is established in the movie besides kylo idealizing vader which is said in this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwV07rhBBjk
>>64150198
The movie doesn't say much about anything.
I think it would have been a better, stronger movie if it was set a few hundred years in the future. We only ask all these questions because we care very much about the OT.
>>64145795
If I shot Connor McGregor I could probably kick his ass
>>64150219
We will definitely see the Ghost Squad show up right?
They are eternal force entities what reason would they not show up?
>>64148996
>it is explained why rey is such a mary sue
>it is explained why kylo wants to be an edgy sith
these are the two biggest holes in the picture, and without them all you can do is go wtf
>>64149502
>You mean the opponent who was getting her ass handed to her until she went: "Oh right, I has the Force!" ?
How do you think Obi-wan beat Anakin? Or how Luke made that shot to destroy the death star?
>>64149509
yeah, disney understands that there's literally nothing wrong with rey getting an emotion-based powerup and going super saiyan, i'm sorry i mean super jedi
>>64146022
>>64145795
But OP you forgot about muh bowcaster.
Tha bowcaster opened a huge hole on his stomach, his insides were falling out.
>>64149998
you are dumb as fuck. read
>>64147197
and >>64147219
He obviously is an OP as FUCK force user, you retard.
>>64151191
chewei shot him with his gun, did you see what that did to your target?
>>64148584
>I don't like sand
Out of all the lines you could have had Vader say, that was the best option
>>64146737
Rey has turned Kylo's force powers back on him before, due to her raw sensitivity. He caught her off-guard once. He knew he wouldn't be able to do so again, and so threw everything he could at her with his physical training, and she was stumbling backwards, barely able to hold him off until she truly embraced the force and let it guide her.
>>64146737
He punches above the wound, at the lungs, which is a very haphanded way to go about draining excess air that's collecting inside your guts and will kill you. He's literally DYING in that fight.
>>64145795
he lost on purpose how stupid are you?
>>64151144
They both had been trained in the ways of the Force unlike Rey the mary sue.
>>64151523
>>64151526
pic related
>>64145795
we know
>>64151526
what does the fact that he's wounded matter (although he seemed to have plenty of stamina left regardless) when he has the force aka magical powers and his opponents never heard of the force until just a little bit ago
>closes eyes for 10 seconds
>can now defeat a Sith (former jedi) that's been in training since a child
Great movie. 10 feminist thumbs up out of 10!
>>64145795
you made all those first points up..
>>64152058
What the fuck are you going on about?
>>64149692
This would have been the most awesome thing ever.
>>64151186
Are you literally retarded? This is how Force always worked.
Muh training, muh midichlorian count or muh chosen one are all PT and EU trash.
>>64152090
go back to /r/movies
>>64149692
When will you retarded apes finally understand that nothing PT related will make it to these movies?
Also worth noting, earlier in the film when the Order's analyzing the power of the force within Rey they comment how it's outrageously high, several times of that of Vader even
>>64149474
Darth Plaeguis
>>64152182
You obvi haven't seen TFA. PT shit made it in the movie.
>>64152155
I've never been to /r/movies but how are you suggesting any of those first points are made up?
He is 30 years old, he was born right after the battle on endor. It is explained in the fucking movie he is trained by luke and snoke. as >>64147197 and >>64147219 point out he does master level force shit that nobody else in the whole fucking universe is shown doing and is made to look like an absolute badass because of it, so, again, what the fuck are you going on about?
>>64152271
now who is making shit up?
>>64152146
Yoda said Luke was "too old" in the OT. Implying training is necessary. Faggot.
>>64151298
No he wasn't. Kylo wields Force like a sledgehammer, he had no finesse and his grasp of Force techniques was shit. He's powerful, but has no skill to use that power, it's all intimidation. Just like his shitty saber: the reason it's crackling and has the crossguard is because it's made from salvage and the crystal is all fucked up and can't create a cohesive beam without the exhausts without exploding. Never mind how many ways he was fucked prior to the fight. He's basically a rich kid born to privilege throwing a fit.
Meanwhile, Rey grew up in a shithole where she had to learn how to be a mechanical genius just to survive, taking apart all those wrecked ships. She even helped Unkar with repairs, judging from her dialogue. Like Luke who was also a good fucking pilot, she probably also handled a variety of groundcraft that gave her the basics. Everything her character can do is easily believable for someone who is basically a scavenger. Only sketchy thing is how quickly she learns the Force, but that's implied because the Light side itself is guiding her.
>>64151791
Blame this women, she was more concerned with making muh stronk women faggotry than keeping faithful how the force works.
>Anakin, despite being the chosen one gets his ass kicked by dooku and gets his arm cut off even though he trained for at least a decade
>Luke couldn't really do shit despite having some actual training with yoda and ghost obi wan despite him going all out
>Vader was basically fucking with him in ESB saber fight trying mind fuck him
>Gets his hand cut off
>Luke only prevails in ROTJ after 3 fucking movies because he channels the dark side at the very end
>Force awakens comes along and rey just knows everything immediately and wins no problem, completely ignoring how intricate the force is and how hard it can be use efficiently and master
Complete mockery solely because she has a cunt. Kylo was channeling the pain from the bowcaster hit, rey's fight should have been similar to finn's just longer with a touch of her force sensitivity until she gets fucked up or escapes until later movies, now kylo isn't intimidating at all, and this is before she is obviously getting trained by luke. In fact the only scene that I think should have really shown her winning was the scene with her in the chair to show she's force sensitive and mind fuckery doesn't work on her.
>>64149474
>as he admires both the light and the dark side
Count dookie after head transplant.
Mace Windu after a skin transplant.
>>64145795
Rey had the high ground
>>64145795
He also does the Prequel lightsaber turn thingy
you know, that flick of the wrist
>>64146181
> He has definitely had a lot sabre training with Luke and Snoke. He deflected Rey's gunshots with his lighsabre in the forest, showing he is a potent lightsabre wielder.
Not that anon but training=/=real time competence, that was among the first things TFA was trying to prove through Finn.
Also Kylo Ren can stop lasers with force power. There is no way to prove his lightsaber deflect is actual skilled sword play or amplified force power through sword play.
I'm still convinced that Kylo is just a "mage" pretending to be sword fighter. Kinda like how Palpatine could use a light saber but hated them and preferred shooting with force lightning.
I am completely fine with Ren not being as strong as he wants to be. He has the potential to be a really interesting character in the long run and he already is the most interesting thing about this new trilogy. However, I think it was a huge mistake to make him seem so powerful in the first half of the film. Having him freeze a bolt in mid air and easily force choke people made him seem like a fucking badass, and I was vibing to his voice. And I get that the reason JewJew did all this was to make the end fight scene mean more, but to me it was handled poorly.
For example, I can find the blaster shot weakening Ren to be believable, but they should have shown him in much more pain instead of a few wince/bleeding shots. Instead they went for a route that showed a mix of Ren being weakened and Rey being a Mary Sue. I mean come on, at least have Ren completely dismantle Finn in a second.
>>64152457
>wields the force like a sledgehammer
His whole game is intimidation and badassery, of course he uses the force like a sledgehammer
>no finesse and his grasp of the force techniques is shit
And yet HE STOPS A FUCKING PLASMA BOLT IN MID AIR, WHILE ALSO FREEZING POE AT THE SAME TIME, AND CONTINUES TO INTERROGATE HIM WHILE DOING THIS. but oh sure, his grasp of techniques is shit. Just like his ability to go into peoples brains and take information as he pleases, or snap his fingers and make this same cunt stain faint at the drop of a hat.
The shit about his lightsaber and her childhood is irrelevant, we're discussing his ability to use the force, which the WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE showed him, if nothing else, being the most powerful range force user in the whole series. Nobody else in the series demonstrates the skills he does. Until lil miss mary sue closes her eyes for 10 seconds and then all of a sudden he's completely incapable.
Also, you're a retard for >muh rich kid privilege comment. Jesus christ.
>>64146022
he wasn't the only person luke was training. he's had lightsaber fights before. not good ones, but still more than rey. he really should not have lost that fight. fucking faggot. worst antagonist ever.
>>64152577
> However, I think it was a huge mistake to make him seem so powerful in the first half of the film.
The mistake was giving him a Light saber, it's pretty clear he can accomplish a lot of his task without a light saber so why give him one story wise.
>>64145795
HE TOOK A FUCKING BOWCASTER WOOKIEE HOT PLASMA BOLT INTO HIS GUT
>>64152634
Fucking this.
Even with the bowcaster hitting him the prevailing theory is him hitting himself is just channeling the dark side more. Now that she basically beat him with no training, the fight in the later movies that inevitably going to happen isn't even something to look forward to as she already beat him with no training, and now she is going to be trained by luke most likely.
>>64152799
>Now that she basically beat him with no training, the fight in the later movies that inevitably going to happen isn't even something to look forward to as she already beat him with no training, and now she is going to be trained by luke most likely.
exactly this.
even if Ren is completely trained he looks like a wanker now who lost to a chick with no training.
this fight is akin to trying to convince me that a jv high school football team who doesn't know the plays or even most of the rules to the game beats an NFL team who's been playing since childhood, but some of the guys are back ups because the starters got injured.
its totally not convincing, contrived as fuck, and only done to pander to the shitty girl lead. she is boring, too good at everything, and leaves nothing for the fans to discuss and nothing to be developed in the remaining 2 movies. All they can with her now is continue to make her more OP in which case people resent her for being superman/one punch man archtype, they kill her, or, they turn her to the dark side. Since its implied she is Luke's daughter in the books and the trailer, I don't see them killing her or turning her. Which means she is destined to become fucking Goku by the end of DBZ when they should have left his ass for dead after the Frieza Saga or even the Cell Games. FFS.
>>64149895
She is being set up as Finns enemy.
>>64152634
Dude, stopping the bolt and interrogating Poe? That's the same brute force thing I mentioned. Know how Jedi can read minds without you ever knowing? He can't do that, so he just slams the Force in your brain until you submit. He doesn't even know how to do Force precog properly.
Not to mention he's a pretty fucking shit duelist. Only thing he has is raw power, but no knowledge or skill to use it like Vader or Palpatine.
And he is a rich kid rebelling. It's literally his character, you stupid cunt. Go watch the damn movie.
And like I said, Rey's sudden empowerement at the end WAS stupid and a definite flaw in the movie. I'm just saying that it had foreshadowing. Doesn't mean it was good tho.
>Shakey ABRAMS ACTION that's no better than a Micheal bay film
>filled with "LOL REMEMBER THIS THING? REMBER THE ORIGNALS>?! XD
>Unlikable cast that couldn't act
>Retarded fucking villain
>The Empire has another Death Star with the SAME FUCKING WEAKNESS THAT KILLS THE WHOLE THING AS IF THEY DIDN'T LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES
>Abrams bragged for months about them using "Acutal Make up effects and no CG" yet literally every fucking alien in the movie was god damn CG ala Lucas
>Nonstop fucking unfunny quips that undermined every scene, it felt like I was watching a god damn marvel movie.
>>64150017
Have you seen Snoke or just some hologram?
>>64153012
Actually I have never seen Jedi read minds without people knowing. I have seen them read emotions and intentions but not flat out visuals/thoughts the way Kylo does. On top of that, his ability to read Finn in the village and know Han Solo landed on the base, those were not examples of him using brute force but still knew? And my point about the bolt and interrogating Poe at the same time was to show you that his technique was not shit, seeing as he pretty god damn effortlessly did it all while keeping his cool.
Again, his dueling skills werent being discussed. But since you wanna take it there, he carved finn up like a turkey and looked pretty good doing it there, then all of a sudden is a brute vs Rey? C'mon. And I have seen it 3 times, I don't need to watch it again. His character is not rich kid rebelling, his character is emo baby putting on badass front to live up to expectations as granddad. He doesn't act entitled, if anything he acts insecure as fuck, trying to please Snoke and the legacy of Vader.
>>64153113
You deleted and reposted this, and spelled actual wrong in both. Fantastic job friend.
All these retards in this thread.
Kylo Ren is only a badass competent fighter when he is wearing his helmet.
Every time he takes his helmet off he becomes weak and reveals his true nature.
New topic: how did the title relate to the movie? I.e "The Force AWAKENS". They only mentioned it once and it wasn't even that clear. What did the force awakening do?as snoke clearly referenced it, it had to have been a big thing? Are there more force sensitives? More jedi/sith? What caused this awakening. Apparently some of it is explained in the novel but its stupid as shit that they cant explain that in the movie. Explain plz.
>>64151623
Good argument, senpai.
>>64153309
Rey was the awakening.
>>64153433
I used that answer instead of explaining for the 5th time in this thread
A.) About how he had just recently used his force powers to throw her into a tree but somehow after slashing up Finn lost confidence in his ability to do that?
and
B.) How its pretty widely known that he was punching his wound to make himself stronger because he was trying so desperately to be with the dark side
that it was just easier to say they're both retarded because those points had already been rehashed multiple times in this thread had they taken the time to read them.
7/10 got me to respond with paragraphs.
>>64145795
>has had zero training and has never used the force or a lightsaber before
>>64146022
It isn't even about plausibility, it's about bad writing. You shouldn't have your main bad guy lose to someone like that.
>>64149403
>Bane killed almost all the Sith
Bane?
>>64153725
He was a big sith.
>>64153721
This. Its not about it being possible or probable or plausible, its about the fact that now despite all of the badass build up Kylo went through in the first 90 minutes of the movie, that any fight with him in future movies is going to be Jesse & James vs Ash tier because its been proven he is a bitch. Which is stupid, because he is the most interesting character in the whole fucking movie.
>>64146641
>implying Wookiepedia is a credible source. We're talking about the same people who created:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chair
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Breast
>>64153785for you
>>64148948
He also still needed the map to skywaller, which since he let the droid go, he only has her as a lead
>>64149471
>Kylo, what you're doing isn't podracing, but what I did, now THAT was podracing!
>>64153652
None of that invalidated the other guy's point about Ren being afraid his powers might be turned back on him, though.
Even if he was pumping himself up through his pain, we see that Ren isn't terribly smart. He lets BB8 go and is desperate to find conviction he doesn't have.
Also, most EU material does suggest force users put up force shields to prevent powers from fucking with them, which is why most jedi and sith resort to using sabers in combat instead of the force.
None of these are great explanations on their own, but togeter they are servicable to support Ren resorting to his saber, which he previously used as an intimidation tool.
>>64149291
maybe force ghosts are just part of lukes desperate imaginary need for guidance after the death of yoda and obi wan
>>64151559
This. I can kind of accept that Rey could beat Ren in a lightsaber fight. But it is retarded that she could use the force better than he can. Like mind reading and pulling the lightsaber.
>>64149429
It took all four of them.
Hans death shook him up more than it did to anyone else
>>64145795
Hurr durr, everyone in Star Wars shits in their pants because there's no scene or dialogue specifically showing them get potty trained, MAJOR FUCKING PLOT HOLE !!!
>>64153999
He knocked her out cold by throwing her into a tree using his powers just a few minutes before hand, so how the fuck would he be afraid of using his powers when he literally just did it to her before he fought Finn?
>>64154217
A quick push is different from the concentrated effort of holding her still.
I think Rey geting back up and not being dizzy and unfocused is more bullshit than anything else, honestly.
>>64145795
>Zero training.
you assume.
just wait until the sequel comes out.
>>64154423
He could have continued to push her around, throwing her into trees and shit, rather than even contend her with the sword. But no, its too convenient for them and muhhh lightsaber battle
>>64149284
Gameplay was good and story was ok. The second one was even better, too bad it took 4 hours to beat.
>>64154477
I know everyone likes to set it up as she had a memory wipe, but something tells me it isn't this clever. I think it'll turn out that she really IS just that powerful just because.
>>64145795
Of course
twitter MareySue_SW
facebook marey.sue.sw
>>64154565
Which is why at that point I suggest the force shielding technique. Not that Rey should even know about it, or the mind trick, so y'know, that was a shitty answer from me to begin with, but hey, she knew about mind tricks, so why the fuck not this.
Shit, I mean, this argument applies to almost every saber duel. Why didn't Obi-Wan just toss Grievous over the edge in the first place? Grievous wasn't even force sensitive, so he couldn't have done shit.
I think the simplest answer is Kylo was an angry unfocused brat who wanted to show off, which is why he offered to train her at the precipice.
The best thing at this point would somply be for him to lament on losing his focus during the fight in the next movie, for Snoke to grill him on how and why he lost, and for him to not make the same mistakes in the next movie.
>>64154845
The point here though is basically this >>64153803
>>64153807
The source they cited is Pablo Hidalgo, who is basically the guy at Lucas Film in charge of all Star Wars official info, canon and EU. He stated Kylo is 29-30.
Also according to those info books about TFA Rey is 19, Finn is 23 and Poe is 32.
>>64154972
Yeah. So it could have been done better. Good thing is, there's room to address this.
Notice how bith Ren and Rey are set up to recieve more training. The next installment in this sequel trilogy will be the "bigger darker second act" where the bad guys get to win a little. So while Kylo might have been better in his duel, even exhausted as he was, there's room to make him the threat he could have been in the next movie.
>>64155176
ever apologists defense amounts to: "It'll be rectified in the next movie, don't worry lol"
We're talking about this fucking movie you retard, not one that doesn't exist yet.
>>64145795
>caring about fan fiction
wew lad
>>64152281
Most underrated comment on the thread.
how did rey know the mind control force thing that she used on the stormtrooper
how did she know it was a thing the force was capable of doing
>>64153807
that breast page is surprisingly comprehensive
>>64145795
she used jedi battle meditation. But that's bullshit because it's a level 15 skill
>>64146022
He wants to lose.
Ala Thanos.
>>64146404
>sabre
this movie is american, so spell it the american way. This spelling is wrong
MARY SUE. DEAL WITH IT
>>64149291
Since no one gave you an honest answer, they aren't 'ghosts' like you think. Not everyone can see them. They were appearing to Luke. Like in ANH Obi-Wan's voice wouldn't be overheard by the people Luke's comsystem is tied to. In Empire and Jedi it's clear they can appear to more that one person at a time (obi-wan talks to Luke and Yoda) but it's not like all the Ewoks saw the force ghosts.
Or maybe they are just like ghosts and voices and can be overheard but only if you're a trained Jedi.
>>64146022
>>64157293
You know that this has nothing to do with Mary Sue shit right? Even if an author put in a bunch of reasons why Mary Sue is good at everything or everyone around her fails it doesn't take away from why it's bad writing.
>>64157543
Was that supposed to be a thumbs up or was he giving him the finger?
>>64146181
>He has definitely had a lot sabre training with Luke
Like all that saber training that Yoda gave luke? Oh wait...
If Luke followed yoda-style teachings his jedi academy would be all about meditation and supression of emotions. The one time luke used his saber on dagobah he failed the test.
Luke was never a trained fighter with his saber. He was 100% self-taught. Why would he teach sparring to his students?
I am skeptical if his students even had their own lightsabers yet. Kylo Ren made his own red saber and it was crude and unstable. If luke had trained him on light sabers he would have made it right.
>>64157659
I want this meme to die.
>>64157776
This, I really doubt Luke's students were at lightsaber construction level and it's not like they all had their dads' lightsabers. Even still, if you're Luke you're probably gonna focus extra hard on the Yoda-tier harmony lessons about control because you even think of introducing them to weapons.
Kylo probably went dark side because he felt Luke was holding them back. Sound familiar?
It was mediocre. There's no vision or emotion behind it. The action feels neutered. It has shitty CGI but I guess that's for nostalgia? If this movie had a different name it'd be forgotten in a week. People behind me in the theatre laughed when Han died. Why?
>>64149291
Force ghost is an advanced technique available to light-side force users, or Jedi. More specifically very skilled Jedi, such as a Jedi master. While Kylo has some knowledge in Jedi techniques from Luke's training it can be inferred that Luke never taught him how to see force ghosts as it is a more advanced technique.The Sith don't believe in the afterlife, so I doubt Snoke could or would teach Kylo how to see the ghosts.
>>64146022
Also
>Ren has a poorly assembled lightsaber
>Rey uses Anakin's and Luke's original jedi lightsaber
>>64149474
In Snoke's mind Kylo represents the Force perfectly. He (Kylo) is the embodiment of both aspects of the Force, the light and the dark due to his Jedi and Sith heritage and the internal struggle pulling him in different sides of the Force.
He is easily scared. He has not been hardened enough. Still feels the pull of the Light.
>>64145795
>people not seeing Vader's rage awakening in Rey
She definitely wasn't using the light side of the force at the end.
>forgetting Snoke literally told Ren to capture and turn her
For all we know, Snoke hasn't trained him yet.
Who would Kylo Ren practice lightsaber against after murdering everyone at the jedi academy, anyway? That means 10-15 years of him just owning fools and being over confident.
>>64149591
>thickest plot armor
>she's not even thick
doesn't matter she's cute
>>64146022
Ren murdered all of Luke's trainees. It's fair to be he had to Lightsaber fight all of some of them.
>>64160248
In Snoke's mind he is a potent tool capable of great power being he is Darth Plagueis.
>The tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise Sidious goes on about him being able to will people into existence and fabricate force visions so powerful even the most experienced believe it to be real
>Snoke just happen to be the same race as Plagueis
>referred to as Wise by Ren
>versed in the dark side
>same music used in the tragedy scene as Snoke's scenes
>>64146022
That and
>He purposely didn't want to kill Rey
>In the novel he begs her to train under him so he won't have to kill her
He was mentally unstable, emotionally wrecked, and he let his weakness for Rey let her get the best of him. If he had really wanted to kill her, he'd have just kicked her off the cliff. The novel makes several nods to him already knowing who she is, which is most likely his cousin. I don't think it's that hard to understand why he lost.
>>64145795
Kylo Ren has fucking nothing on Darth Caedus. Nothing.
>>64152281
Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power...which, eventually of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death...but not himself.
>>64161656
>twin
>fucking
>sister
Why? Because there is no originality in ep 7 and there won't be any in the next ones.
>>64162416
Not twin sister, cousins. There's no way they're twins, he's got seven years on her. He's also way too tall in her betrayal flashback to be the same age as her, since she's about seven or so when she's screaming at whoever left her on the planet to come back.
>>64157659
Thumbs up
>>64145795
You have to admit, he has a pretty cool voice, with or without his mask, despite being a whiny John Snow on heroin
>>64162873
read the EU
you'll figure out that it's just a shit rip-off of the EU, so they'll be brother and sister at the very least, if not twins
anything else would require originality
something none of these films will have
His true name is Vsratus. Screen it.
*rogue one insider*
![1395517713157[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CDUhPON.jpg "1395517713157[1].jpg")
>oh shes able to do all these things because she had training
>you don't understand shes a scavenger
>she can use the force because luke did it that one time
shes just a boring character.
Did Kylo Ren succeed at anything in this movie?
>>64153803
>badass
>looks like a potato
>"you are scared you'll never be as powerfula s Vader" "WWWUUAAAHHHHHH"
>literally a comic relief with retarded storm trooper gags avoiding him and his orders
>literally no reason at all to join the dark side so far
The whole movie is a mess.
>>64155985
I'm saying if those answers STILL don't satisfy your autistic nitpicking, then maybe they'll address it later.
But really, Kylo was not of sound mind, nor a strong tactician. Him engaging in saber combat worked well in the movie, and as a very last resort, you could always just take into consideration je was puckered out and unfocused, both of which hinder use of the force.
It works within the movie just fine.
>>64146737
>her aside like a rag doll but all of a sudden can't just freeze her and knock her out like he did the first time.
IM SO TIRED OF ALL THESE BASIC ASS CASUALS IN THESE THREADS WHO CLEARLY HAVENT EVEN READ A SINGLE NOVEL OF STAR WARS!
Hell i dont even like star wars and even i know most of this shit cause its basic common lore.
You fags do know that the force doenst work on other force users, right?
For example force suggestion only works on the weak minded.
>HURR DURR WHY DOESNT ANAKIN JUST FORCE CHOKE OBI WAN
>HURR WHY CANT KYLO JUST FORCE CHOKE REN AND PARALIZE HER
FUCKING AUTISTIC SCUM!
Their is a reason why jedi never attempt to use it on each other.
Because it wouldnt work unless you are that much stronger than your opponent.
For examlpe anakin could force choke a padwan( youngling leanring to be a jedi) even though they have expeience in force traing because anakin would most likely be physically and mentally stronger than a child even if hes being trained in the force
Thats why most jedi/sith fights rely on sabers and force push/pull cause all those other techniques dont work on other trained force users.
Most jedi and sith tend to be on the same/near similar levels of powers and abilities.
Once rey force powers awakened he could no longer use those techniques on her cause she would have broken it just like she broke his mind reading technique.
Thats why snoke wanted rey to be brought to him cause he would have had no problem in reading her mind as he is cleary very old and wise in the way of the force and could easily overpower her.
I dont have an issue with newcommers,but at least attempt to learn and read about shit before throwing in your half assed wrong opinions and thinking you know shit.
The movie was too inconsistant with Kylo's powerlevel, they should have established him as much weaker since even a weak force user could be a huge threat in a world with no competition.
Make it clear that Luke placed little emphasis on lightsaber combat preferring to teach about the philosophical side of the force, it would explain why even a normie like Finn gave him trouble.
also make it clear that Kylo has only recently been learning from Snoke and was fucking around in the years since he slaughtered Luke's new jedi academy.
>>64146593
Reported
>>64146181
>sabre training with Luke
Luke has had 0 sabre training, he's am amature.
>>64150654
>>it is explained why kylo wants to be an edgy sith
but it is. I think it's Han that mentions he was brainwashed by snoke
>>64151186
>emotion-based powerup
not sure but I think that was her using the dark side. Kylo killed her mentor and critically injured her friend so it makes sense for her to use hate and anger
>>64152462
yeah, honestly it should've been reversed, with the collapsing earth saving a near-defeated rey instead of a near-defeated kylo
>>64163372
So why wouldn't Leia and Han recognise their own child? Or if they recognised her, why not say anything? Come on.
>>64148584
underrated
>>64153309
It's probably referring to Rey. She's force sensitive as fuck, and is liable to be a powerhouse once she gets Luke's training.
Finn might also be force sensitive to a lesser degree, since something made him back out of a lifetime of stormtrooper brainwashing.
>>64145795
Anakin died a good guy iirc. Also at the end of ROTJ his force ghost is seen with other Jedi who became one with the force. So why the fuck doesn't he just appear to Ren and tell him that Darth Vader died a good guy.
>>64145795
I had faggots at work defend Ma-Rey Sue because "SHES REALLY GOOD AT THE FORCE"
THE FORCE DOESNT LET YOU MAGICALLY FIX ANYTHING YOU ENCOUNTER
THE FORCE DOESNT LET YOU GAIN MAGICAL POWER LEVELS AGAINST AN EXPERIENCED SITH
HARD WORK DOES
I'm not a big Star Wars fan, but this movie sucked shit. The pacing was horrible, and just from a writing stand point it was unbearable regardless of how it dealt with the lore. I want my money back.
>>64164746
why didn't Kylo just force push Rey into that chasm? Why didn't he start force throwing trees at her or some shit? Are injured people somehow less able to use the Force?
>>64146593
lol
>>64148584
good job anon
