Most of TFA was fine. But this really stood out to me - how the fuck did they build Starkiller base?
Aren't the First Order a remnant group of the Empire?
How the hell, with the New Republic's massive influence over the galaxy at this point, did these guys manage to construct a gigantic planet (or terraform a pre-existing planet) into a humongous galactic weapon right under their noses? Not only that, but the most powerful superweapon the Galaxy has ever seen? There is no way this was an overnight process, this had to have taken literal years. The Death Star 2 took like three years and it wasn't even halfway finished when the Rebels attacked it.
It's not like they even hide it. This shit isn't exactly subtle - it looks like a planetary sized deathstar from even a complete layman's perspective.
How come no one even bothered to investigate this?
>>64133249
anon you're thinking too much! just turn off your brain, eat your popcorn and enjoy the movie ;)
it's what J(ar) J(ar) Abe would have wanted
they took a dwarf planet and dug a trench and put a big gun in it
id say it was harder to build deathstars from scratch
>How come no one even bothered to investigate this?
because its a kids movie and nobody fucking cares
>>64133332
>id say it was harder to build deathstars from scratch
No because the Empire had complete control over the Galaxy to supervise it. How the fuck do you build this kind of thing in secret?
>>64133249
It's implied the Resistance didn't really know anything about it to the point they did a recon mission right before Finn appeared to fill them in.
Giant sun-swallowing planet gun is built within firing distance of the Republic's main home planet and nobody thought to attack it before they got their defences up?
>>64133456
The Republic got lazy and careless, and instead of quickly stomping out what was left of the Empire, they let it be, thinking it would die off on its own.
Why the fuck does the resistance consist of a small army when the first order is a threat to hundreds of civilizations? Why don't these planets contribute to the army?
This shit all made sense in the OT because the empire was running shit.
>>64133332
The depth of that trench is greater than the height of Mt everest
Each pillar on the rim was probably a deathstar-level feat all on its own to build
The construction of Starkiller base deserves an epic narrative all on its own, this is some mind bending shit
>>64133577
There has been a peace treaty signed between the First Order and the Republic. Basically, the first order gets to do what it wants in its territory but that's it. That's how they were able to build a superweapon in secret.
The Resistance is a rebel group secretly backed by the Republic. They can't publicly back them because of the treaty.
But everyone knows what's going on, anyway.
>planet big enough to be circular because of gravity and have an atmosphere
>dig trench half way around the planet
>Millions of tons of displaced earth
>cover it with metal and windows so it looks star warsy
Just turn your brain off bruh
nanomachines
>>64133249
The engineers for the First Order got a copy of Halo and said fuck it we will copy that.
>>64133332
That cannon was the size of Australia and the whole planet was hollowed out to make the power core, judging from the way it imploded when the thing failed. It DWARFS the effort required to make another Death Star.
Completely agree with you anon. But there's even more.
>Death Star II in ROTJ was lazy writing. Death Star III is outrageous.
>Base is built inside a planet which sucks the sun energy. When the sun is over, planet is dead. The whole base has been built only for a couple of shots. Death Star was autonomous, mobile, cheaper and had similar firepower.
>Energy blast travels light years in seconds.
>Energy blast is smart enough to divide itself and calibrate five different shots to planets light years away. (BTW, how the fuck the Republic was downsized to only five fucking planets)
>"Shields? Fuck that. I'll hyperspace through them. They obviously didn't think about it"
>Destroying it was a piece of cake.
Starkiller base is the most idiotic concept in the movie and one of the worse things in the entire franchise.
TFA is a 6/10. And I'm in the mood.
I wanna know who the empires scientists are, they are the real heroes of star wars. They're fucking lightyears ahead of the republic.
>>64134469
>(BTW, how the fuck the Republic was downsized to only five fucking planets)
Was that seriously the whole Republic? I thought it was just the current location of the Senate with it's surrounding moons.
>>64134646
3PO says that the Republic's fleet was destroyed, so yeah, that's it.
maybe the empire had been building it in secret for the past 6 movies, would probably work if it just looked like a shitty snow planet
>>64134646
That was where the senate whas supposed to be.
There's a black woman on the scene when the sky turns red on not-coruscant that looks up in horror.
She was supposed to be Leia's ambassador sent to try to convince the senate, but the scenes got cut, like so many others.
TFA was a rushed mess of a film. Expect at least an hour and a half of extra footage on the special editions once they release them
>>64133249
>There is no way this was an overnight process, this had to have taken literal years
Yep, it took 30 years.
>>64134759
Oh so they just started the biggest project ever after they lost the entire high command, most of their fleet and a hugely costly space station?
>>64134759
Stop trying to defent this shit.
TFA is shit on par with The Hobbit
Just turn off your brain bro.
>>64133249
This makes thread number 13 or 14 I've seen with this exact question, and so far no one has provided a clear and acceptable answer, except this: Disney fucked the canon, Abrams is a hack, we Marvel now.
>>64134873
Wouldn't Papls be smart enough to start building Starkiller base while they were finishing Death Star II so they can have another super weapon just in case?
>Sir, we've come up with technology to suck up a sun for power.
>perhaps it would be wise to build a space station or star cruiser capable of utilizing this to travel the galaxy and suck the sun away from systems which oppose us
>Imagine the raw terror our enemies would feel at the mere prospect of being forced to watch in futility as we suck away the stars which have given them light and life for millenia, slowly freezing to death and dying among everyone and everything they know in collective agony and darkness
>Sir? What do you think we should do?
>BUILD IT INTO OUR PLANET AND HAVE IT SUCK UP OUR OWN SUN SO WE CAN SHOOT IT HURRRRR
What a bunch of unimaginative pieces of shit. It's a good thing Sheev isn't around to witness such faggotry.
>>64133249
It's a star wars movie.
For kids.
Made to sell toys.
Stop.
Because this movie was actually garbage and half of you are forcing yourselves to like it because >it's muh new Star Wars and >it's so shiny and chrome
Overlooking the fact that this may be the worst Star Wars story-wise from a macro perspective
Why are you guys arguing logistics in star wars
it didnt make fucking sense with the death star, why are you crying about starkiller base now
They still have WWII era dogfights in spaceships with subsonic laser beams
>>64135744
I going to say sidious is still alive and snoke forgave him and they have been on this for over 30 years and the rule of two is now the rule of three. They are also planning on creating a more advanced/bigger version of the star forge so the sith can retake the galaxy.
>>64133249
space version of hidden nazi gold and french paintings
The third Death Star was built by white men.
That's why its such a bad idea that ultimately fails, Anon.
>>64133249
its made of midochlorians
>>64133249
It's been 30 years
technology improved
>we hollowed out an ice planet to build a horribly inefficient space laser that uses billions of years worth of fusion material to kill 5 planets
>we also made sure that if one building blows up on the surface of the planet, the whole thing implodes and becomes a star
man space nazis are stupid
>>64138240
clearly it hasnt
>>64138240
>incredibly vulnerable and surface level reactor still there
The republic just leaves the first order alone to do whatever they please because they're stupid. That's why the resistance exists. They fight the order while the republic sits on their asses
The starkiller was build inside the ice planet
>>64133249
Not to mentioned that such a powerful weapon wasn't even properly guarded. The damn thing can destroy star systems, but let's not send everything we have to destroy it (despite the fact that even if they don't they still risk losing it all), instead just like 50 fighters to take on a planet lol.
>>64138244
unlike the death star, the beam it fires travels much faster than light speed. that's why it uses so much energy.
>>64138260
>>64138293
>they didn't read the books
>>64133456
>>64134646
>>64134469
Wait, I thought the Rebellion/Resistance was the New Republic. So the Republic of the Rebellion is destroyed...So then what about the First Order, wtf do they control and where do they get their resources?
I understand this is a kid's film, but even those don't have these many plotholes - it's especially bad when even my seven year old nephew can spot them, holy shit.
>>64138456
>he's defending a 3rd Death Star as part of the "new" plot
you probably like the taste of your vomit too
>>64138477
But it's bigger than the death star and it works different
>>64138293
>incredibly vulnerable
their main assault actually failed and they luckily found a way to attack from the inside thanks to having finn with them
>>64138502
>>64138521
You did not refute my point lol
Wouldn't flying close enough to a star to suck it up scorch the fuck out of the planet? And when the star had been sucked up, wouldn't the surface of the planet freeze solid? How are there trees and shit on it? It makes no fucking sense.
And furthermore, if you come in and eliminate the star in a solar system, you wouldn't even have to blast them to shit, they'd freeze and spin out of orbit on their own.
Ugh.
>>64138532
But both of those things are true
>>64138456
they should have left it for the end of 9
>>64138591
Why does every planet (and even moons) have the same gravity?
>>64138593
Yes, and Death Star 2 wasn't fully finished
it's the subtle things that really expose true creative genius like this
>>64138521
Never underestimate a space janitor...
>>64138650
>implying death star 2 wasn't fully operational when your friends arrived
>>64133690
>rebel group
What are they rebelling against? Why are they calling themselves the Resistance and acting like some underdog group when The Empire was overthrown and had been gone for years?
>>64138645
I have never even thought of that and now I'm pissed ofr thinking about it.
So much wasted potential.
Stars Wars has droids. Build a plant with self-replicating droids, a few trillion later then they can start building whatever you want, death stars, star killers, anything.
>>64138780
say it with me anon
Disney ... attempted ... nothing ... new
7 ... is .. a .. rehash
They didn't build it, they found it
>>64138792
but then there wouldn't be any conveyor belts for natalie portman to get trapped on you fucking idiot
>>64138780
the republic chose not to fight the first order
Leia and many other former members of the alliance disagreed and wanted to wipe them out. As a result, they formed their own group and are the only ones in the galaxy "resisting" the first order
>>64133249
perhaps they were working on it since before, even during the original trilogies. and they just finished it up.
>>64138855
>kind of complacently sat there and let the First Order build up a bigger, blacker Death Star to absolutely obliterate them with before these Resistance memers manage to destroy it
this is a horrific story
>>64133249
pretty sure the First Order controls a large percentage of the galaxy
>>64138904
the republic just sucks and never learns
>>64138930
Yeah, if only a huge production house and creative team had the chance to rectify that with a new Star Wars trilogy
>>64138975
What a world that would be
>>64138904
they are fucking retarded and just wanted to live in peace and get fat. The most they do is secretly back the resistance
>It's a flick for kids lol turn off your brain nerd
>Said flick occupies 75% of the front page on the /tv/ board of an 18+ website
TFA apologists really irk me. Death star 3.0 was as dumb an idea as death star 2.0. Why does there always need to be a death star? Haven't they already shown the flaw in building a gargantuan super weapon that can be blown up by a single fighter?
>>64139074
but this time it can blow up 5 planets
Was there REALLY no capital ships that were willing to join the Resistance? Why the hell did the "fleet" only consist of a few X-Wings?! Like I was sitting there going "Did the Republic disarm themselves?" No defense whatsoever, I mean, the Starkiller only targeted the planets, and I DOUBT that the ENTIRE Republic fleet was left in that one system. They HAD to of been spread out....but NOPE! I mean, there wasn't even a hint of a Republic capital ship ANYWHERE!
>>64139199
Because they always have to be the underdogs, dewder!! just like ANH XPP
B R A V O J J
R
A
V
O
J
J
>>64134714
This.
Sheev started construction on the thing before he was even Chancellor. Probably as a Plan B in case Order 66 failed or the Senate wasn't retarded enough to believe his every word.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
>>64138904
Just like real life anon.
>Republic wins the war.
>Mon Motha disarms the Republic's military, puts an emphasis on independent planets providing for their defense and defense of the republic through a mutually beneficial coalition.
>Imperial Remnants still fucking around, but New Republic signs peace treaties with them to contain violence.
>First Order, the extremist occult (Read; Sith) portions of the Imperial Remnants begin to form at this point. Consolidate their power and build up the starkiller base over 20 years.
>Republic refuses to take their threat seriously, doesn't want another war on their hands. Doesn't know starkiller exists.
>Leia is pissed with this, forms the Resistance, a small group within First Order space to fight against the First Order.
>Is able to muster token support in the form of equipment and money, but not enough to break the first order.
>New Republic gets blown the fuck out in a sneak attack on its capital.
I'll give you three chances to guess what real life events this hearkens back to.
>>64139382
You aren't helping
>>64139199
>Like I was sitting there going "Did the Republic disarm themselves?"
Yep
remember the 6 million bothans
>>64136672
>Sure thing buddy, lets put all that power in a spaceship that can be easily destroyed by any fleet.
You wouldnt last 2 seconds as a general, mate.
>>64133249
i would defintly consider it due to plagueis imensurable amount of power and influence trough the force
>>64139199
Send capital ships against a planet-destroying super weapon and you're asking to lose those capital ships.
Squads of fighters are more maneuverable and thus can better avoid turbolaser turret fire, whereas the capital ships would need to deploy their own fighters to deal with that threat rather than just move fast and return fire. Capital ships and their fighter wings are good for combating other capital ships. Additionally, Rebel Alliance ships, unlike Imperial Destroyers, aren't equipped to carry out atmospheric bombardment.
It's the video game shooting game concept of force deployment of space weapons systems.
Think about this
In they movie they show a comparison between the death star and starkiller base. And the death star is smaller than the giant hole
>>64134469
Wouldn't firing it destroy the planets atmosphere?
I wish Disney had the resources to force a TFA Visual Dictionary on every person that saw the damn movie, since it explains the majority of the wrong posts in this thread.
Rebellion and Empire sign a peace treaty that says the Empire can't produce it's army anymore, and that the now-New Republic has to demilitarize 90% of it's fleet.
The Empire goons that couldn't take the defeat fled to Unknown Regions, which is unexplored by civilization, thus out of prying eyes of the New Republic. They turn into the First Order over time and carve out a planet (Ilum most likely) to replace with the weapon.
New Republic establishes the new Senate, which becomes largely useless in a couple years. The current Chancellor doesn't want to acknowledge that the First Order is even a threat, because muh peace and all that.
Leia goes to the Senate repeatedly to tell them to get in gear, but they basically tell her to fuck off.
She creates the Resistance from the ground up, recruits people herself and has to supply the ships herself (she can't). The Resistance has a very limited amount of credits to spend on it's operations, which is why they have just a few T-70 X-Wings, while the NR Navy has new T-80s.
What's left of the NR Navy is around Hosnian Prime just doing nothing because muh peace, at the time of Starkiller shooting the planet and moons.
It's assumed that the fleet gets fucked up in the explosions, which is why they don't go help the Resistance attack Starkiller Base.
>>64139707
>Send capital ships against a planet-destroying super weapon and you're asking to lose those capital ships.
That was true of the Death Star because the Death Star was an actual ship that could maneuver and aim its primary weapon in different directions. Also because said weapon could recharge relatively rapidly using its own internal power generator.
Starkiller is literally a planet with a massive fixed gun built into it, that consumes so much energy it cannot possibly power itself and therefore must swallow an entire star to fire a single shot. Even against the largest capital ships it would be difficult to aim, and it'd be a waste of a star even if you could.
>>64139911
See the problem here, is that most of this stuff is not explained anywhere in the movie itself.
It's like Plinkett said of the prequels: sure, a lot of the plot holes are explained in novels/comics/videogames/spinoffs/wikis/etc. But that doesn't matter because people go to a movie to see a movie, not to watch a mishmash of nonsense all because they didn't do the mandatory 500-page reading assignment beforehand.
A good movie stands on its own. The OT did, the prequels don't, TFA kinda-sorta does if you don't think too hard during the movie (which, to its credit, the action is engaging and the characters likable enough that most people don't).
>>64139911
>we're allowed to not explain anything and criticize anyone who points out the retardation of the movie portrayal
That's not how it works you triple nigger
should have told JJ to tone down on the vapid ass fight scenes
>>64139911
needs to literally be in the movie
>>64133615
>>64133249
Not really. In one of the cut scenes from Episode II you see droids building a part of Courscant. Machines do EVERYTHING large-scale in the SW universe.
>>64133249
Yes, buts it's pretty to watch 15 trillion lives end.
>>64140732
How did the First Order people not go blind when that thing was fired?
>>64140826
Shields anon...something to the tune of the other half of the power going into shielding just to fire the stupid thing.
>>64140885
They might as well just throw stars across the galaxy and see which planetary billiards they can sink.
I keep seeing people posting about how the Starkiller base can't move, but it's pretty obvious from the movie it has to. It's essentially become a rouge planet that moves from system to system as it uses the star of the system to destroy the planets of said system.
One star, one volley. Then it uses some form of propulsion to move to the next system. Considering the modifications of the planet it's not surprising it has a decently effective propulsion system.
Additionally it has a whole planet to store fighters and defense systems, so anyone complaining about how it's main weapon is ineffective as a deterrent needs to note this thing has more backing it than just a giant laser, and more storage capacity than a typical star base.
Lastly, something that I just think is possible, is that the planet wasn't originally an ice planet. The fact it's a rouge planet and moves around without a sun to constantly heat it means that they likely converted a habitable planet that had much life on it and it just froze over when they moved it.
Now that that's said; it's a stupid fucking idea and all this explanation doesn't mean the thing makes any proper sense in the universe. Digging a trench like that must have fucked the stability of the planet and gravity must make that thing a mess. No matter how much I want to like it, when you think about it you'll always find a giant flaw. Politics aside.
>>64140732
>4 planets get btfo including aparently the Republic capital
>Nobody really cares
>>64140924
I said to my friend that they probably just turn the planet around,and use the laser to propel them to the next star.
>>64134469
>>Energy blast is smart enough to divide itself and calibrate five different shots to planets light years away.
The dear star was able to converge multiple beams into one. Starkiller was able to diverge one beam into multiple
>>64140917
Olaf and Doc. would be proud anon!
>>64140924
Well, one thing is certain, this CLEARLY puts the tech level for the Galaxy in the SW metaverse as a high Type II.
>>64140924
it doesnt even rotate. they dont even wait for firing alignment.
A sensible answer would be that the Star Killer was just a weapon that the Empire was working on before it fell.
One which the First Order took over and continued working on it in secret.
>>64141075
Just assuming it makes sense, they could have positioned themselves on the other side of the sun so when they siphon it completely it's a clear shot to the targets within the system. Wouldn't need to reposition then. Also adds another layer of defence as defenders would need to go around the sun and you couldn't fire your own giant beam canons first.
>>64141150
Because it's easy to conceal the construction of a massive object that would require millions of workers and completely avoid any detection from Republican intelligence.
>>64140940
Alderaan pretty much got the same treatment
>>64133249
>how the fuck did they build Starkiller base?
I'm not sure. They either hollowed out a planet (which I'm sure they can do with a galaxy of tech and manpower) or they built it from scratch (which I'm sure WOULD take 30 years).
>>64133249
So, did it implode and become the sun it absorbed? It didn't linger on the shot long enough to tell if it was a temporary or permanent state
>>64133249
I think you're all missing the point here.Of the movieThere was noneThere was no point to the movie
>>64141379
Considering the backstory noted in this thread I don't think the Republic has any idea what intelligence is.
I'm kind of pissed they didn't even mention this kind of thing in the opening crawl to catch everyone up if it is indeed accepted for the movie. Seemed like a really short condensed crawl for 7 too so it's not like a paragraph explaining the truce would have been out of place.
>>64141432
Yes it did. It showed the basic reforming after imploding and then back on the target planet it clearly was still day so it "replaced" the sun. Not sure how that works, but considering I don't know how a giant space canon works I let it pass. Of course the whole solar system will have fucked orbits and the sun isn't really moving in space anymore so they didn't really save the planets.
one thing i missed: did they move the planet into the system with the senate/republic plants or did it shoot from its own solar system?
if it moved, then why didn't they just move it away at the end?
if it shot from its old system, wouldn't it take years for the energy to reach the other planets?
>>64141620
>did they move the planet
how would you even move something that massive at any reasonable speed
>>64138050
Take your racist bullshit elsewhere
>>64141620
it fires at hyper lightspeed
They say so at the breifing
>>64141153
but alderan countdown scene
>>64141550
Doesn't make sense that the Republic would go full retard because surely they would have been aware of the threat of Imperial partisans, I mean the Republic and the Rebellion never indicated they were incompetent or naive. Doesn't make any sense really
>>64141808
I wonder how they could do that, or how it fires at all, really.
I imagine it would have something to do with the superluminal conveyance of a burst of cross-phased super-massive neutrinos, but I can't be sure. What do you think?
>>64133480
It's not "within firing distance". It's in a whole other system. There's never been a weapon with that kind of range before.
Ian McDiarmid(Sheev) was born only 7 miles away from where I was born
woah
>>64133979
That isn't the same thing at all, moron.
>>64141827
It doesn't make sense in a way, but it does in others.
The way the Republic got painted before the Empire doesn't speak highly to any sensible governments at planetary levels. It really was naive as hell for the prequels, and then "liquidated" by the originals. After the fall the whole rush to grab power could easily distract the senate as it tries to rebuild, relearn, and retake power from a galaxy that was just getting used to its new form of government. With a peace treaty involved spying on a potential enemy could bring war back to a galaxy that's been at war for a good 50 years again. That might not seem worth it. It's not even without precedent within our own history that militants would be ignored for hope that they would not drag everyone back to shit again.
As for the Resistance, it really does seem like a very small scale group, even compared to the Rebels. Much of the leadership of the Rebels would have gone to trying to repair the Republic leaving only those who have a stake in ensuring the Empire's total submission happens. Such as Leia who basically lost everything to them--before, during, and after the war. This group can't afford to send 100 Bothan spies, who usually end up dead, to know what's up at every point of interest.
Assuming that most of this wasn't what happened and the Republic had its shit together then there's no excuse to the base being unnoticed. That said this obviously didn't happen if there needed to be a Resistance fighting for them instead of the Republic actually doing what it could in the first place.
Which brings us back to why the hell JJ didn't add a paragraph explaining why the Republic even needed the Resistance in the opening crawl.
>>64133315
>needing to turn off your brain to enjoy a movie
>>64139382
i really cant think of anything
>>64140924
>Additionally it has a whole planet to store fighters
To bad the guys who ran defense didn't know that.
>>64142255
back when there were people aorund lucas to tell him "no, george, bad george, can't do that george"
>>64139382
me and your mom last night
>>64141550
>I don't think the Republic has any idea what intelligence is.
I'm probably going to regret getting a wooki link, but are there any intelligence agencies in Star Wars galaxy?
>>64142338Still, kinda funny
>>64142324
Considering the whole set of toys and merchandise they have coming out I wouldn't doubt it was cut to make things "flow" better, sell more blu rays next year, or from shear incompetence. The movie really did a bad job explaining things in the movie itself. You have to basically be a nerd or assume a lot to tie everything together.
>>64142378
the jedi
>>64142413
normies dont care about such things as internal consistency or good stroytelling
they really dont
>>64142378
Not a big enough nerd to know much outside the movies, but there are the Bothan spies. Apparently a whole race that's really good at spying on things. And getting killed doing it.
>>64142255
that scene was cut though
>>64139382
I knew Disney hates Muslims
>>64142475
>really good at spying on things. And getting killed doing it.
Seems like a slight contradiction.
>>64142430
I thought they were like monks/advisers.
>>64142413
I'd just personally prefer if Space Nazi Base was a prominent location throughout and built up to be a constant threat.
>>64142564
Well you can spy on things, tell someone else, and that gets the information to your client eventually. That or you go in with a lot of decoys and that ensures at least one spy gets out alive. Don't need to actually survive yourself to be effective.
Of course I could be interpreting the movies wrong and the Empire just had really good spy detection. Which wouldn't be hard considering all spies look the same I suppose.
>>64140732
>4 planets just standing there next to each other
>>64140999
fuck me. i always thought movie characters saying things they think out loud was dumb lies but when i read that i couldn't help but sigh and say "that is so fucking dumb".
Christ.
>>64134469
Mostly agree with you, except for the fact that... Why WOULDNT they build another Death Star? I mean, it's not like it isn't a FUCKING planet destroyer, it makes perfect sense they try to make another one, to show the power of the Empire. It indeed can be seen as lazy writing, and probably is, but it kinda makes sense...
>>64140732
>literally blowing up the prime location of the prequels
JJ Abrams is a true poet
>>64134469
should have been a World Devastator.
shield run should have been the fighter bay.
trench run should have been up the side crevasse.
and continue the entrance into the belly scene. strafing run to stem the tide of fighters.
shit happens
dog fights inside a World Devastator
hero fighter lucks out for a chance to hits the core construction pipeline.
same principal without the fully on the nose repeat.
leaves room for escalation of danger.
>>64141620
More importantly, if it is firing from its own system, why the fuck would they make it swallow its own sun?
