I just saw Episode VII for the second time and it was even worse than I thought it originally was. Long story short, my mom wanted to see the new Star Wars, so I went to the movie theater with her.
The opening credits said "from the ashes of the Empire, the FIRST ORDER was created", but it didn't explain what the hell is going on with the galaxy. What's the dynamic of power now? We know there's the Republic, we know there's the First Order and we know there's the Resistance, but how do they relate with each other? Isn't the First Order too powerful for a faction that spawned from the ashes of another one? Hell, they built a fucking station that's 50 times bigger and more powerful than the two Death Stars combined. Where did that money come from, considering the Empire in its golden era couldn't afford something like it?
General Hux says before Starkiller Base's cannon fires for the first time that the Republic is secretly supporting the Resistance. Why do they have to do it secretly, considering the Rebellion was an anti-empire organization that wanted to establish the Republic once again?
C-3PO, after those Republic planets were destroyed, said the upcoming battle against the First Order would be hard because they wouldn't have the support of the Republic's fleet. Does that mean all of the Republic's power was in those 5~ planets? In ONE fucking system? Episode VII apologists say the First Order is fine because clearly not all the arms of the Empire were around Endor in Episode VI, but is it OK for the Republic to have its army and senate stationed in one convenient place in that huge galaxy?
I won't even talk about the stupidity that is having a "Supreme Lord Snoke", the complete death of Luke, Leia and Han's characters (since the movie ignored the character development in eps. IV to VI), the terrible nostalgia-driven jokes, the Mary Sue main character, the helicopter shot at the last second and the lack of world building. I'd need another 10 posts for that.
Who gives a fuck about the details and the politics of the galaxy, though? These films are supposed to be fun adventures with a bit of focus on character drama. I'm not going to pretend it was perfect but it was a fun, fast-paced, well acted and exciting film, and that's all it really needed to be.
>>64125392
You are the modern moviegoer and the reason why movies are dumbed down as much as they are.
Consider suicide.
>>64125392
Are you saying I should turn my brain off when watching this movie?
>>64125203
>>64125440
Star Wars is a fairy tale you absolute faggot. It's Buck Rogers mixed with King Author mixed with Rapunzel. If you care this much about the minutiae of the world then that says more about you than it does about the film
>>64125440
He isn't wrong, only you old fucking people care about this kind of autistic shit when at the end of the day this is just a Disney movie with flashing lights for bratty kids. It's rated pg for a reason.
>>64125520
>trip
>>64125547
>rated pg
0/10
>>64125520
Maybe they should have completely removed the First Order / Resistance / Republic plot in the first place if they knew they were gonna half-ass it because of "muh fairy tale".
Make it all about Jedi (good) vs Sith (evil).
>>64125465
>>64125440
you should realize that your stupid ego gets in the way of enjoying an enjoyable movie and good reboot of star wars.
>i'm the critical thinker
>nope not good enough
>mmmm me oh yea me me me
>>64125584
The First Order versus Resistance plot was just the macro representation of good vs. evil, the Sith vs. Jedi being the micro
>>64125618
>unironically says critical thinking is bad
I have no face
>>64125641
But the Sith and Jedi were properly explained (one is attuned to the Light, one is attuned to the Dark, one is about order, one is about chaos etc), while First Order and Resistance were half-assed.
>>64125641
That makes no sense at all.
>>64125667
good reply!
it's almost as if what you said has truth considering i didn't say that
>>64125667
I think he's suggesting that you're missing the point of the series. The plot of Othello doesn't really make any sense when you think about it, but that doesn't keep it from being a masterpiece because the plausibility of its plot isn't the play's raison d'être.
>>64125203
OP, with your level of autism the EU and Star Trek is more suited for you.
Yeah... the continuity is pretty bad.
They're going to have to release a dozen special / extended editions to patch that up.
>>64125392
>Who gives a fuck about the details and the politics of the galaxy, though?
Besides family, Star Wars was built on politics, kid. The prequels were more overt with politics than the originals, but that doesn't mean they're not there.
>>64125681
The motivations of both the First Order and the Resistance were as clear, and their goals similar to those of the Jedi.
The Republic wants to avoid full scale war with another faction, so they just secretly fund a rebellion within that faction's territory.
>>64125793
ooh he said kid. burn! that makes your argument look weak. he called you kid!
>>64125203
I liked it more the second time.
>>64125392
Star Wars has gone too far for us to ignore the political situation of the galaxy. This isnt some rebels and an empire anymore. You are an absolute melt.
>the Prequels were better because there was more political exposition, they were more cerebral movies, for patricians.
>"she has been running this place for a thousand years", "don't stare at her, don't stare at anything"
>it's literally just an orange 80 years old woman
Wow, nice job JJ.
Also,
>Solo: "How did you get Luke's lightsaber?"
>Maz: "It's a long story"
>>64125392
The relevant details (New Republic and First Order are officially at peace and fighting a proxy war through the Resistance) could've been easily summed up in the opening crawl. Instead it's Skywalker Skywalker Skywalker, and if you're being pulled out of the movie by confusion every time a character mentions anything related to the factions and balance of power, fuck you, you should've played Battlefront or read some novelizations and shit.
>>64125203
>reading the opening title shit
AHAHAHAHAHAHA autism
>>64125760
>trip faggot
>mentally retarded
What a shocker.
>>64125784
According to some nerds in /co/, there's 2 canon books and a graphic novel that explain the First Order.
>>64125203
>Isn't ISIS too powerful for a faction that spawned from the ashes of another one? Hell, they built a fucking caliphate that's 50 times bigger and more powerful than the two Islamic Republics combined. Where did that money come from, considering al-Qaeda in its golden era couldn't afford something like it?
>>64125924
there's no way you're over age 15
>>64125885
They were better movies because they tried something new with that franchise, instead of retreading the same plot points.
>>64125203
>prequels drone on and on about galactic politics and people hate it
>the new trilogy doesn't go into political details and people hate it
>>64125547
I'm a 40 yo Star Wars fag and I don't want no Star Trek in my Star Wars. The original trilogy had ONE line of politics. The emperor has abolished the senate, the end. All the rest is from the EU and the prequels.Which isn't canon anymore anyway.
>>64125203
Jar Jar Abrams tried hard to avoid any backlash from the fans by trying to distance TFA as far as possible from the prequels, so no politics or any other kind of exposition.
But he failed to realize that in the OT politics are not discussed because they are simple as fuck but in TFA they aren't so what's left is a jumbled mess that needed to be explained outside the movie with interviews and novels - and not just the politics but also all other kinds of details like R2D2 sleeping and the reasoning behind character's actions.
>>64125392
>politics of the galaxy
Was my favorite part of TFA to be honest
>>64125938
>Al-Qaeda and ISIS are similar groups that want similar things
Jesus Christ, don't you guys have History lessons in school? Also, I don't remember ISIS having more powerful weapons that the United States or Germany.
The movie could've done a much better job to establish the changes in the setting. But the amusing part is--well-discussed by this point--is that as far as we can tell there haven't been any. Nothing relevant to the immediate story, anyway. We still have a creepy old shadowy figure in charge of an oppressive regime and a less-supported by courageous group of rebels trying to destroy their superweapon.
The movie's biggest issue isn't in its lack of originality or even its lack of exposition. Those are really just two symptoms of a bigger fundamental issue with the movie's ultimate goal and its way of attaining that goal. The movie's pacing is atrocious because it's in such a hurry to pander to what people think "Star Wars" is. The movie never slows down.
I think Rey's poor character and ultra-competence might also be because of this. The movie is desperate to create tense scenarios but not desperate enough to let the movie slow down for the audience to grasp the consequences or context of them. Rey stumbles through every problem she faces scot-free from one rushed sequence to the next. There's no time for world-building in The Force Awakens.
>>64125681
There are no Sith in Awakens.
>>64125889
What the actual fucking is this
>>64112175
>>64126025
>or any other kind of exposition.
This is a good thing, by the way. JJ's best quality is how dissimilar he is to Christopher Nolan.
>>64125993
It's almost like you have to balance how much of a subject a script needs for it to be good.
>>64126058
Regardless of similarities ISIS is literally an al-Qaeda splinter group. And besides you don't think they got some of Bashar's sweet sweet sarin?
If you're a Star Wars fan and don't pay attention to the expanded material they put out, but wanna bitch about not knowing everything from the movies only, you're a retard and deserve your ignorance.
All of your questions can be answered by paying attention to the movie, and reading the extra material.
>>64126065
Maz Kanata says the First Order is led by a Sith.
>>64126068
oh shit. reddit. that's an insult here on 4chan. we're opposed to that site.
fuck i cant believe im reddit. damn im not cool enuf for site. fuck
BACK TO REDDIT AH HAHA!! differing opinion. such reddit!
>>64126087
The fuck are you droning on about? Major plot points were simply not explained properly and how the fuck is Nolan even relevant.
This isn't a science fiction film where we need to know where they get their energy and sociopolitics of everything.
WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW AND IT WOULD BOG DOWN THE FILM IN UNNECESSARY DETAILS.
You've never made a film. You don't understand what a poor decision it would be to include that information. You could ask the same questions in IV. How did this Empire get into power? Why is she a Princess if there's a Republic? Who fucking cares?
>>64126077
>>64125889
We want the Minions audience
>>64126087
>JJ
>no forced exposition
did we watch the same movie?
My girlfriends 6 year old really liked it. That should tell you everything you need to know about this "film."
>>64125889
Coincidentally it was during that fucking hogoblin's rant about eyes or some shit that I started clawing mine out of my skull
>>64125983
>They were better movies because they tried something new with that franchise, instead of retreading the same plot points.
Do people actually believe this?
>>64126185
Little kids loved the prequels, too. But they also liked the OT.
It really doesn't say anything at all.
>>64126087
Are saying stupid things just for the fun of it?
>>64126176
This. And if you really are autistic enough to need your questions answered, they provide books and comics and television shows to explain and flesh everything out more.
>>64126077
It looks like Disney violating Dreamworks IP.
>>64125203
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order
All of this explained.
There was no time to put 30 minutes of explaining political shit in the movie.
>>64126177
minions
>targetted for kids
>funny in a retarded sense
maz 'A FUCKING ORANGE' kantana
>wise yoda insert
>witty one liners
>prop for delivering force lore
how does this equal minions audience? they already got that with chewbacca and the bb8 droid funny reddit humour gags
>>64125889
How could they fuck up the alien designs so fucking hard?
Literally all new aliens look like burn victims and the old aliens barely even appear.
>>64126164
>Major plot points were simply not explained properly
Wanting everything spelled out is what's ruining mainstream films. Episode IV's success came from how much world it was able to build with very little exposition, which let the audience speculate and fill in the gaps themselves. It's also why the tertiary material like books and comics were so successful. Nolan, on the other hand, is the type of the director that explains every single aspect of his plots, to the point where characters who should now what's happening are asking questions about what they're doing.
>>64125993
>>the new trilogy doesn't go into political details and people hate it
Awakens is universally loved though. It's just a few trolls, /pol/tards and butthurt autists who complain here. It's pretty easy and cool to be a contrarian.
>>64126282
>how does this equal minions audience?
By having her look like an old minion
Same like the BBC staff Ridley holds to draw in the BBC womyn crowd
>>64126025
Yeah, Space Nazis vs Good Guys is real complicated.
>>64126331
Yeah all the normals like the movie for the most part.
Actually with a bit of imagination, the plot can work. After the call of the empire, the new republic was born but struggled against the remants of the empire armada, exploding into various factions. To keep existing, the new republic had to compromise and create a new equilibrium giving much liberties to the factions. When the first order emerged, the republic was forced to stay out of the way because any action would have make other factions fear for their indépendance, so they funded a secret résistance under Leia's command. Meanwhile the first order, stuck under the empire's shadow, mimicked their last actions and focus their ressources into building the starkiller base while the empire was more about large armies controling the galaxy. Maybe the first order control a much smaller sector and can concentration on this only project. Also the starkiller base is on a real planet, not a fully artificial one, and need an outside source of power to fire. Worse, it can't move, at all. So it destroyed the republic planets in range, probably not all of them.
>>64126152
>Maz Kanata says the First Order is led by a Sith.
No she doesn't.
>>64126059
>Nothing relevant to the immediate story, anyway. We still have a creepy old shadowy figure in charge of an oppressive regime and a less-supported by courageous group of rebels trying to destroy their superweapon.
I still can't believe how much this film actually shits on the original trilogy. It basically nullifies the ending of Episode VI by saying nothing that was accomplished really mattered and by ignoring the main characters journeys.
Luke (after all he has done in eps IV, V and VI) ends up a coward, Han Solo (after finding love and something - the rebel's cause - to die for) ends up a coward, Leia is just a lazy and complacent general...
Plus, the Starkiller Base battle was so boring. The thing was 30 times larger than the Death Stars and it was dealt with with no trouble. I didn't even understand the battle was over after Poe Dameron shot what seemed to be a normal internal wall. All I could think was "is that it?"
>>64126348
>BBC womyn crowd
We all know nigs don't take white hoes to the moving pictures.
>>64126133
I'm not a big Star Wars fan, but I do pay attention to the plot of movies I watch. When a movie about "Wars" fails to explain who are the factions in conflict, it's the director and the screenwriters' fault. I shouldn't have to read extra material to get the plot.
Finn was a really pointless character put there to move the plot along (freeing dameron). He's a simple minded dolt that has good intentions. Kinda boring actually.
I can't help but think another actor would bring more life into the role.
>>64125392
You should at least try to give the audience some explanation of what's happening in the universe and why. Just having generic evil and good guy factions exist without plausible backstory makes them uninteresting plot devices. This is a shallow movie for stupid people.
>>64126589
But it's explained...
>>64126307
>Episode IV's success came from how much world it was able to build with very little exposition, which let the audience speculate and fill in the gaps themselves.
Thank you!
And it's when they tried to fill the gaps in the Prequels that everything turned to shit.
>>64126176
In Episode IV, it was clear that the Rebels were trying to re-establish the Republic (which was once in power) after the Empire took control of the galaxy. Princess Leia was the daughter of a Senator, who was secretly supporting the Rebels fight against the Empire.
Everything was explained.
>>64126307
No you retard, IV has a lot of exposition worked through the dialogue, that's why Luke is the naive farm boy that asks about everything (Obi-wan explains the force and Han explains how hyperdrive works for example). The whole rebel base chapter is expository dialogue (we need to do this and that to destroy the Death Star).
All major plot points are either extremely simple (good vs evil) or explained a great deal.
In TFA there's none of this, only "funny" quips and "epic" dialogue like Hux's Hitler speech that is simply confusing.
>>64126423
>with a bit of imagination
I think you're talking to the wrong crowd.
>>64126499
>dealt with no trouble
Sure they didn't need a starfleet or a moderately sized force of commandos to take it down like DS2 but they lost a lot of X-wings andHan Solo
I think they could have done better on that part but the force that did go in took heavy losses.
Also if you think about it, the empire was one on a galactic scale. So taking out the emperor and yet another death star would not completely undo it's power. They still have many garrisons and fleets scattered across the galaxy, with Admirals and other officials hungry for power.
There was always an Imperial remnant, this one just has a different name. The biggest thing for me was the lack of a Republic standing army. Instead we have a "resistance". I think by now they would have had the ability to call themselves something other than a name that invokes the idea of an underdog. The victory at Endor would have shifted the balance of power more towards an equal status, or one in favor of the Republic. The New Order is just the result of the remnant restructuring itself.
>>64126524
They do with side chicks though
t. black twitter historian
>>64126713
>confused by a Disney movie
o...k...
>>64126423
>a bit of imagination
Nice, I don't know why they bother hiring screenwriters when they have such a fanbase. Clearly you don't care about the script or the plot, since you just fill gaps according to your own agenda.
>>64126713
Episode IV has almost no exposition after they leave Tatooine. Compare it to Interstellar, where a pilot who's flying a ship into a black hole needs to have someone explain what a black hole is while he's already on the ship heading towards it. Or characters who are yelling out what's happening to them while there's no one around to hear it. The exposition in Episode 7 is much more natural, and is picked up through natural dialogue (like the status of Luke Skywalker's story in the world made clear by Rey's reaction to Finn mentioning his name).
>>64126499
>I still can't believe how much this film actually shits on the original trilogy. It basically nullifies the ending of Episode VI by saying nothing that was accomplished really mattered and by ignoring the main characters journeys.
>Luke (after all he has done in eps IV, V and VI) ends up a coward, Han Solo (after finding love and something - the rebel's cause - to die for) ends up a coward, Leia is just a lazy and complacent general...
This is what pisses me off, more than anything else. It just blows my mind as to why people are calling this a good "Star Wars" movie, or praising it for being close to the OT, when it essentially makes everything that happened in it pointless by restoring things to as they were at the start of ANH, whilst shitting over the original leads. What's happened to Luke is just awful, I can't believe the guy who was willing to go up against the Death Star, his own father turned to the dark side and the Emperor just pussed out and ran away.
>>64126764
>Also if you think about it, the empire was one on a galactic scale. So taking out the emperor and yet another death star would not completely undo it's power.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that this would be the case. But making the new status quo so similar to the original Star Wars' is a contrivance intended as a pacifying gesture and nothing more.
Luke is in hiding because Obi-Wan and Yoda were. Han is back to doing smuggling jobs to get by because that's where he was 38 years ago. Leia's role as a general feels natural and fitting, but there's not much to her either way in TFA. Instead of the Emperor we just have Snoke, and instead of the Death Star we get the Starkiller. The characters even remark--in nearly comical self-awareness--how it's the same old song and dance.
Rey's character has the same problems, they're just expressed somewhat differently.
>>64126764
>The biggest thing for me was the lack of a Republic standing army. Instead we have a "resistance".
No, my friend. C-3PO says they won't have the Republic's fleets at their side against the Starkiller Base because all the planets in the Republic's system were destroyed. They had an army, which was not the Resistance, but apparently ALL OF IT was located in those planets.
Meanwhile, the excuse people use to justify the First Order creation is about the Empire had garrisons all over the galaxy.
It was poorly written and it basically implies the Republic is small as fuck and the First Order is more powerful than the Empire, since it can build something that can destroy whole systems instead of just planets.
>>64126940
IV has lots of exposition and you didn't realize it, also TFA has a far more complex plot and it has far less exposition which is just poor movie making, you shouldn't need supplemental material to understand major plot points and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a ploy to sell more novels.
>>64126942
>I can't believe the guy who was willing to go up against the Death Star, his own father turned to the dark side and the Emperor just pussed out and ran away.
To be quite honest, this makes me angrier than all prequel movies combined.
>>64127054
>No, my friend. C-3PO says they won't have the Republic's fleets at their side against the Starkiller Base because all the planets in the Republic's system were destroyed. They had an army, which was not the Resistance, but apparently ALL OF IT was located in those planets.
I didn't catch that somehow, so that was Coruscant that got blown to bits after all. They sure didn't act like their whole Republic got wiped out, it really felt off.
>>64127057
A New Hope had Obi-Wan explaining what the Jedi are and what the force is. Aside from that and the opening crawl, most of the world building was through genuine discovery, like the Death Star blowing Alderaan up, or dead Obi-Wan speaking to Luke. Very little of this is established before it happens.
>>64127266
I didn't catch that the first time I saw the movie either. It happens when they're all around the Starkiller Base hologram, before they come up with a plan to destroy it.
I'm still not sure it's Coruscant, though. They mentioned that those planets were all part of the Deshan (spelling?) System. Does any /tv/ turbonerd know anything about this?
>>64127388
it was the Hosnian system, so it probably wasnt coruscant
The First Order and lack of any explanation of what happened post-RoTJ definitely was a problem.
Who in the First Order is from the Empire? Everyone in it seems like they're 28 years old. How the fuck did the Autistic Ginger become a fucking General?
Did the First Order have a truce with the Republic like the remains of the Empire did in the EU? Is that why the Republic wasn't at war with them, but supported the rebels? If the Republic knew that they had a weapon to rival the Death Star why the fuck wouldn't they declare war on them?!?
It was the exact same shit in IV. Who the fuck is the empire and rebellion? Why is the empire so bad? What is the balance of power? Clone wars???
Ultimately it does not fucking matter. The movie is not about shitty political minutiae. They'll release a book for you autists at some later point that explains it in retarded depth and you'll eat it up.
Meanwhile the rest of us will enjoy it for what it is; a faithful sequel that captures the heart of the originals.
>>64127446
According to the Star Wars wiki:
>The Hosnian system was a star system in the Core Worlds that was under the control of the New Republic thirty years after the Battle of Endor. The capital planet of the system, Hosnian Prime,[1] and four other planets were destroyed by the First Order's Starkiller Base.[2] The system was home to the Republic's new capital,[1] and hosted its fleets, all of which were destroyed upon the firing of the Starkiller superweapon, leaving the Resistance without the aid of its primary official backer. The destruction of the system was witnessed by all those at Maz Kanata's castle, on Takodana, and Finn immediately informed the others that it was the doing of the First Order.
>>64127497
But IV told us all we need to know.
The Empire is in charge, they are at war with a guerrilla group of rebels, and they took power 20+ years before when the Jedi were wiped out.
We don't know a fucking thing about the state of things in TFA apart from the First Order is a shitty version of the Empire
>first order blow up several republic planets
>nah senpai, we aren't going to start flinging massive asteroids at them, have fun lmao hope you can find an exhaust port again
>>64126059
10/10
>>64127497
>faithful sequel that captures the heart of the originals.
>>64125203
>Why do they have to do it secretly, considering the Rebellion was an anti-empire organization that wanted to establish the Republic once again?
That's the thing that bothers me most. The movie establish that there is only 3 factions: the Resistance, the First Order and the New Republic. The Resistance likely uses the same ships as the Republic (X-Wings and such) and their general is fucking princess Leia who likely was one of the founders of the New Republic. Gee, I wonder who is behind the Resistance? Surely it's not the Republic, the only galaction faction that would want to destroy the First Order.
>>64127634
Also, why are all their fleets grounded in one system? Surely there were a few on standing patrols/based elsewhere
>>64127337
What do you mean by genuine discovery? Do you even know what exposition means?
The Death Star blowing Alderaan up is preceded by a lengthy scene explaining why Alderaan is important and why they want to blow it up. That's expository dialogue.
If ANH was directed by JJ we wouldn't have an explanation of what the planet is or even who Leia is and why she needed to be rescued.
IV has all these little tidbits of information scattered around (Wookies are ferocious and proud! The general population doesn't even believe in the force! We need a translator bot because the galaxy is full of different kinds of languages!) to build a believable and consistent world.
For example, what the fuck do we know about the orange alien slut other than "she's older than Yoda lel".
>>64126636
I think Finn should be a kid soldier and played by a 16 years old actor. His character act like a scared kid anyway
>>64127757
If Episode IV was made by JJ, we wouldn't even know the name Alderaan. What a disgusting man.
>>64125392
he is right. the story is set several years after episode 6 so you expect that they give you at least a brief information what changed over the years
>>64125547
it doesn't matter if this is Disney or not, that's just shitty storytelling
>>64125764
you are a brain dead retard who eats the shit up
>>64125440
Star Wars has always been dumb.
Always. It's a rip off of fairy tails and Kurosawa movies.
>>64127757
The type of mentality that makes modern films unwatchable, and the antithesis to masterpieces like 2001 and Bergman's Persona. Mystery is just inherently more interesting
>>64128260
but this is a soulless rehash of the ideas (which are probably borrowed from Kurosawa)
>>64128288
Mystery is the clone wars and Luke's father, Rey's past and Snoke.
None of which are immediately relevant to the plot.
The movie not explicitly stating the political climate (which is the main point of the overarching plot) and which Star system is being blown up and then being nonchalantly explaining it in a visual dictionary is not mystery, it's just poor storytelling.
>>64128260
>implying Kurosawa isn't ripoffs of western films
this thread has been an excellent peer review of a creative work.
I'm sure all of you can point us to examples of your superior craftsmanship and storytelling. That, or your just fedora tipping consumers.
