Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that this was the worst entry in the series?
Actually fuck that, I don't even consider it an entry in the series. This is the point that will be remembered as when the franchise crossed into zombie mode, like the Simpsons. Disney will keep churning out these soulless corporate products until every last dollar has been squeezed, and then reboot it to do it all over again.
>>64103990
GLIB FACSIMILE
>>64103990
II was still worse.
I know that 4chan is at full swing with the heart and soul meme crap, and I won't deny that this is made to make toys and all that shit. It wasn't a good as the original but it was better than the prequels. Watch those movies again, and when you see the wooden acting, the bland dry delivery of lines, the insipid dialogue, and trade route disputes, the ridiculous overuse of cgi, you can't possibly tell me with a straight face that that's soul and heart.
>2 hour long trailer
I'd rather watch this than the prequels. Probably rather watch this than 4 or 6. Probably recency bias though.
I'm going to be honest here.
I actually think that all of the star wars movies are bad on a really basic storytelling level. Hopelessly reductive morality, no social relevance, essentially just wish fulfillment.
That being said, the original trilogy and even the prequels are better crafted than VII due to Lucas's attention to the universe's internal logic and how small details interact with that universe.
The new movie feels like a fisher price version of star wars which is pretty incredible considering that star wars is a fisher price version of Akira Kurosawa and John Ford.
>>64104120
>Lucas's attention to the universe's internal logic
why does anyone actually have light saber fight and not just insta-kill their enemy by force-moving their heart one inch to the left? whole universe has been kiddy shit since day one
I don't know about you guys but the only thing I remember is how extremely beautiful Rey was. Her impact on my brain simply blocked out everything else.
>>64103990
>worst entry in the series?
How? The prequels exist. Even if TFA was another disappointing Disney cookie cutter factory made blockbuster, it wasn't as bad as the prequels.
>>64104170
They're space katanas so that he can make chanbara movies. It's a narrative conceit that they will fight on essentially even terms.
I don't have a problem with things like that, I know what I'm getting into.
>>64103990
>can we agree that this was the worst entry in the series?
no
>>64104120
You have some good points, but why even bring up the prequels? They are utter nonsense
>>64104294
There was a moment or two where it really did feel like the sequel to the OT we deserved. But that was mostly washed out by bad decisions
This is right. The intrinsic quality that defines Star Wars, whether it's just used to sell toys or not, is its courage to cross borders into new territory which the new flick fails completely to deliver. It's not groundbreaking, nor memorable nor nothing. It's a soulless piece of shit that only lives off the brand which plinkedditors thrive off.
>>64104338
What ground did AotC and RotS break, exactly? Please enlighten me. Not all stupid decisions are bold ones.
>>64104338
As hard as I try to be upbeat about it, it's really hard to denysearch your feelings you know it to be true
the sad dirty diaper contrarian baittrain never ceases
>>64104120
>universe's internal logic and how small details interact
Can you name some of these small details?
>revisionists trying to make the prequels look good
wew lad, those are barely even films, go suck on a midichlorian
>>64104442
Obi Wan is an old man in the OT.
He made him younger in the PT to make you understand that it's in the past.
Just one example of many.
>>64104303
The prequels are a muddled attempt to inject politics into the formula that made the original movies work. Lucas does not know anything about politics and it shows. His style of direction and tone do not lend themselves to a political thriller to begin with.
The problem with the prequels is not the production design or the details of the star wars universe but rather Lucas's inability to tell an interesting story set in the star wars universe. He also injects several things into the prequels that have no business being there such as C3P0 and R2D2 but these were mainly done for brand recognition. VII does not remain consistent with the rest of the star wars universe in tone and also lacks a lot of the nuance in production design and character treatment that lucas retained even in the prequels. Lucas for instance would not make quippy lines of dialogue with 2015 intonation straight out of an iron man movie. He doesn't know how to make it interesting but he does know that you don't make modern references in space fantasy.
Also, even though most of the characters in all the movies are embarrassingly thin by almost any standard, none are quite as thin as the episode VII characters
After watching this I won't be watching any trailers or those TV spot things.
They put way too much shit in the movie the whole time I was like
>this is when this shows up
>this is when this bit happens
>this is when they go here
>>64104115
>>64103990
It had the right feel and tone akin to that of the OT. So it felt more authentically Star Wars then the Prequels did. Tone-wise, the Prequels were all over the place and felt nothing like the OT aesthetically. The Prequels had horrible, clumsy storytelling that was amateurish at best. TFA had a coherent, if rehashed, story.
But the Prequels had actual theatrics, mythology, and world-building. The state of the galaxy in TFA is murky at best and it relies almost entirely on nostalgia. As badly and clumsily executed as the characterization was in the PT, there was at least an attempt to give them some semblance of conflict and motivation. Everyone knows what motivates Anikan, whether they like him or not. Rey, Kylo Ren's, and Finn's motivations were so vague they were practically non-existent. Thus, the new characters came off as extremely shallow and hard to be attached to.
Perhaps they will rectify this in the next one. However I think the damage to Kylo Ren's reputation will be impossible to repair.
The Force Awakens was objectively better, as entertainment, than Attack of The Clones and Revenge of the Sith. It was about on par with The Phantom Menace, which had plenty of huge faults, but also had amazing cinematography, music, set pieces, and Liam Neeson.
Can we talk about Disney's biggest fuckup with this film that doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet?
Specifically Kathleen Kennedy. She seems to have been brought on board due to her track record with Back to the Future, The Goonies, Indiana Jones, etc - but for years she's been trying to push a feminist agenda in film. While I don't believe more female and minority leads are inherently a bad thing, her management of this process is disastrous to say the least. Characters are treated as a quota first and foremost.
What Disney should have done, is gotten Gary Kurtz onboard. Kurtz, for the short of memory, is the man who guided Lucas's early efforts like American Graffiti, Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back to being critically-acclaimed timeless classics. As soon as he was out of the picture following ESB, we got Kazanjian and the uneven mess that was Return of the Jedi. Now we have Kennedy and the complete mess that is The Force Awakens.
Kurtz is the key to all this. They should have showed up to his home in London with a briefcase full of money back in 2012.
It feels more like fan fiction than an actual Star Wars movie. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.
this whole "TFA sucks, the prequels were awesome" bullshit is really rustling my jimmies
pls stop
>>64108216
Hi Bob Iger.
Please hire better people to make these films next time. You're not handling shitty Marvel comics here, you're handling something that, for better or worse, has become a surrogate mythology for the modern Western world.
>>64108272
>surrogate mythology
pls kill self
>>64108303
Prove me wrong.Protip: you can't
>>64104477
o i'm laffin
>>64108326
Protip:ur a faget
>>64104477
Han Solo is a young man in the OT
They made him older in NT to make you understand it's in the future.
>>64103990
>The Good
Designs; from sets to new aliens, to me coats of paint on old ships the look was right.
Sound Design; crisp shaor sounds especially with the force that withoit would have made Kylo's force moments look absolutely ridiculous
Some characters and some character moments; Chewy amazingly hit a home run and managed to actually improve upon his character from a comic relief side kick into a half comic relief side kick half kick ass Warrior who actually got shit. Finn was alright as well and seeing a storm troopers perspective was neat at first. Poe was very underused and fit the mold perfectly for a leading character but they wasted it. BB8 also worked out well too, overly cutesy and shit sure but he wasn't annoying at least and had some fun moments.
>The Meh
Han Solo; Ford didn't totally shit the bed which is a plus, and the character would have been served well if he actually acted like a surrogate father to Rey, but he served his purpose I guess. Leia served hers as well, poor Carrie Fisher though, she talks like her lungs were soaked in Bourbon than set in fire. Hux was fine too, a bit too baby faced to come off as a general though.
>The Bad
Totally safe with no risks or divergences in the plot, it was just episode 4 again with a scene from 5 for good measure. Rey was broken and has no flaws so there's no room to develop. Kylo is a nest idea that was executed horribly (I don't know whether to blame Driver, the writer, Abrams, or all of them),Han's death was not well handled at all and was poorly edited, and the direction and editing was all over the place. Like I expected that snappy quick shot transition from Abrams in some scenes but it happened too often to where it was just exhausting and it became hard to absorb what was happening. Also there were fee screen wipes more anywhere to really use them since the editing was so quick and shakey.
>>64108461
Protip:ad hominem does not substitute for a rebuttal, even if you or I don't like Star Wars's position in the public consciousness - especially in a place as history-less as America - as a monocultural surrogate for myth and folklore thats relevance has been lost to time and geographical changes - that doesn't change the fact that it still occupies that position no matter what we say or do.
This movie is simply not Star Wars. It looks line Star Wars but it doesn't feel like Star Wars.
>>64104170
I actually heard why on Reddit this doesnt happen.
Apparently in comics(?) it was explained that this doesnt happen because one of the first things learned is creating this 'force' shield around you so you cant be strangled, and like your said, cant have your heart moved.
>first order can't locate and detain a single droid
>something fucking jawas were able to do with a little remote control
>tie fighter struggles to escape the star destroyer hanger
>if only star destroyers had shield generators keeping things from leaving the hanger bay
>if only the empire had tractor beam technology
>oh wait... they fucking do. guess they just forgot