So we already know it's better than RotJ, but is it better than ANH?Yes
>better than ROTJ
kek
>>64078259
Why do people shit on ROTJ the start of the movie is fucking great with jabbas palace etc
>>64078417
Is this a meme? No it was pointless shit
A New Hope > The Force Awakens > The Empire Strikes Back = Return of the Jedi
>>64078259
It isn't as it is for now, it doesn't work very well as a standalone movie.
Maybe after the sequels are released it's going to settle down with us a little bit and "get better" as things are explained, but as for now it doesn't feel half as fleshed out.
>>64078259
its barely better than Phantom Menace.
>>64078259
Its not even better than ROTS
>Weakwilled faggots nodded along with the crowd who said it was good
>They don't want to accept they're spineless cretins so they defend it to death on /tv/
>>64078259
Shitty bait.
It competes with epII for the place of the worst movie of the franchise.
>>64078447
The Special Edition seriously hurt it, with the replacement song.
>>64078417
ROTJ did have some of the best action sequences in the OT. The Han Solo rescue and the speeder chase were fucking GOAT.
>>64078259
Shitty bait.
>>64078517
>I make ridiculous hyperbolic statements on the internet in order to get attention
>>64078259
>better than RotJ
please stop
TFA wasn't all bad but you just cant come in and state BS like that
>>64078551
Oh, fuck of retard.
I am serious.
You by considering it at par or better than the originals, are either an idiot or a troll.
>>64078530
>Space: Battle of Endor
Godlike.
>>64078599
The Return of the Jedi is a bad movie. It's not even a flattering comparison. And even if you don't like it, your statement is far more ridiculous than his is.
>>64078609
The teddy bears were better characters than the Rey Sue.
ANH/TESB - 9/10
RotJ - 8/10
TFA - 7/10
RotS - 6/10
TPM - 5/10
AotC - 4/10
>>64078461
that's very true
there was not enough exposition, too much action and too little of it made sense without good explanation they might or might not give us with next films
It's obviously better than ROTJ, but it's not better than A New Hope. It's ostensibly a remake of that film, which alone makes it inherently less interesting. At best it's probably on par with the massively overrated Empire Strikes Back.
>>64078417
The Ewok parts, though handled well-enough, still manages to rob too much of the movie's (and the viewer's) dignity.
Watching little people waddle around in fur suits was stupid enough, but then they're killed off with loud, dramatically swelling music. Adults don't know whether to groan, feel sad or mortified.
>>64078738
>there was not enough exposition
Go to bed Christopher Nolan. Stop ruining your movies with too much explanation
>>64078641
It's not a bad movie.
And it closes the saga in a perfect way.
TFA is a mediocre movie with literally no reason to exist.
It's as unnecessary as the prequels.
And it's protagonist is more fake than the fucking ewoks.
>>64078750
Literally nothing wrong with the ewoks tbqh
>Little people in fur suits
This is so much more ridiculous than big people in fur suits?
I thought it was terrible. Instead of expanding on what the first trilogy accomplished, it just rehashed it and made them not matter.
Dull cashgrab carried on the shoulders of Indiana Jones and brand name.
TFA was more fun than ROTJ overall.
Jabba is much more interesting than Maz.
Death Star 2 shields & destruction is a bit better than the Starkiller shields & destruction. I'd say a lot better for its superior space battle and more thoughtful shield infiltration, but the Ewoks beating Stormtroopers with sticks and rocks nonsense takes away a lot of tension (makes it cartoony).
The final Jedi battles were equal in their own ways. Vader chooses his son in the end. Rey's Force powers fully awaken.
Two things set TFA just a little higher. Han is more important at the end, and Rey beats on the asshat who kills him. And it's a beginning film instead of an ending film; there's a lot of open mysteries that keep you thinking about it long after.
ESB > ANH > TFA > ROTJ >>> ...
>>64078811
The only worthwhile scene in Jedi was the confrontation between Luke and Vader. But even disregarding that, your contention that it's the worst film in the series is absurd. It's competently acted and well-shot; it's able to abide by basic filmmaking techniques that make the film watchable at the very least. Episode 2 is barely even a film.
>>64078738
> not enough exposition
Bruh, really? The first half hour was total spoonfeeding of everything you needed to know.
>>64078776
there just wasn't enough
they presumably had some scenes explaining the new republic and shit with leia but decided to remove them for whatever reasons, they would have really helped the story and pacing though
>>64078898
>The first half hour was total spoonfeeding of everything you needed to know.
No it doesn't. A lot of it is actually done without dialogue.
>>64078918
No it wouldn't have. I'm amazed that the biggest complaint people have of the film aside from how much it borrows from A New Hope is that the 30 years between Jedi and this aren't explained. To me that's the film's biggest strength; it lends it sense of mystery and makes the events in the OT seem mythological.
>>64078861
>The final Jedi battles were equal in their own ways. Vader chooses his son in the end. Rey's Force powers fully awaken.
Surely this is bait
>>64078259
Pretty weak bait desu senpai
Fuck yourselves if you think you're cool for shitting on the Ewoks. It was made to appeal to kids and it goddamn worked. As a kid I rewatched my ROTJ VHS cassette until the tape fell apart.
>>64078958
>makes the events in the OT seem mythological
wtf am i reading
the entire scrolling text explains how everything is still the same
>>64078461
> it doesn't work very well as a standalone movie.
its not trying to be
>>64078259
Disney shills have lost all sense of moderation.
I don't get why everyone hates Return of the Jedi
>>64078694
>>64079020
They have to double down on the shilling now that their mary sue has been outed
>>64079041
Shills are just dumb.
No one hates the movie.
>>64078811
>And it closes the saga in a perfect way.
Are you only pretending to be retarded?
>>64079005
No it doesn't, you idiot. It's implied throughout that Luke and Han are very much mythological figures in Rey's world.
>>64079041
It's a mess
Everything wrong with the prequels is in RotJ
>>64079041
Because hating one of the of makes you seem less fanboyish and more nuanced, and thus Jedi gets flak
>>64079094
The movie was critically panned when it came out. It has a prequel-tier metacritic score. Plenty of people hate the movie.
>>64078823
Let's put it this way: they tried too hard to make them cute. Ewoks aren't like Jawas, or the pig men, or the bat midget in the cantina, or the droids - somewhat grotesque but intriguing.
No, Ewoks were solely created for the kids and ridiculously doe-eyed adults and it's a groan-inducing stain for the more intelligent among us who just want to see some high quality scifi, but instead are subjected to crude forest cuddle-bears "defeating" trained soldiers with guns and tanks.
It doesn't ruin the whole movie for me, but you (or a dif anon) asked "why do people shit on ROTJ" and there are probably countless other reasons.
>>64078417
Not to mention the best space battle of the entire franchise, the best lightsaber duel, the excellent ending.
>>64078259
disagree 100%. I'll grant that Jedi had some retarded shit but the highs that it hit were leagues above anything in TFA. and besides the photography in RotJ just blows TFA away.
comparing ANH to TFA is a bad joke
>>64078447
>pointless
in terms of its relation to the rest of the plot, yes, it was pretty disjointed.
but it established and demonstrated the changes in Luke's character since the end of Empire (basically he's a self-confident badass now) as well as returning Solo to the cast of characters... basically the opening sequence of RotJ is just an extended Indiana Jones sequence but with the characters from Star Wars lol (Raiders of the Lost Ark- 1981, Return of the Jedi- 1983)
>shit
no. it's really good film (except for the retarded CGI musical number which has been added by faggot Lucas to the newer editions)
>>64078742
I wouldn't even put this movie in the same category as the other six. It's not an authentic Star Wars experience
>>64078694
Here, let me fix that for you:
TESB - 10/10
ANH - 9/10
TFA - 7/10
RotJ - 6/10
TPM - 4/10
RotS - 1/10 See me after class
AotC - 1/10 Apply yourself
>>64079277
>and besides the photography in RotJ just blows TFA away.
This shot alone does visual storytelling better than anything in the original trilogy
>>64078893
You forgot Jabbas Palace and the space battle which actually had more ships than Xwings and TIEs. JJ Abrams couldn't even get that right
>>64079306
>TFA - 7/10
>RotJ - 6/10
>>64079306
Yeah, those are also fair rankings. As I said in another thread, the ranking I listed I am happy to have people swap the movies up or down one notch, to allow for opinion or taste. And you've done that, which is fine.
To bump TFA up any further, though, or to bump RotS any lower would be unfair.
>>64079354
That's not even a controversial opinion. Most people agree.
>>64079389
Eh, I wouldn't say most. About the same amount of people who reckon RotS is better than RotJ, I'd say. Not a large amount, but certainly more than a few.
>>64079233
But they beat the Imperials with the help of trained Rebels and they clearly had some fierce warrior tradition even if they were small and furry. And the fact that we still care about them 35 years later should indicate that Lucas was onto something. Will we be talking about any of the races from TFA in 30 years? Of course not. Amongst the many things this movie utterly failed at, it failed to build any interesting races or worlds at all.
Where do you faggots get this shit from? 7 can't touch the OT, this meme is ludicrous
>>64078259
It's not better than a A New Hope and it's barely better than Jedi. RotJ had a tarnished back end what with the terrible shit on the forest moon.
>>64079464
The originals have the benefit of time and nerd deification. Viewed objectively it's in the same league.
>>64079277
>in terms of its relation to the rest of the plot, yes, it was pretty disjointed
It was to show that luke had matured, he wasn't the dumb kid he was in ep 4 & 5 anymore, he had full control of the force, he became a skilled lightsaber duelist and he was in control when he got caught by vader.
>>64078551
>Ridiculous
>OP states that a bad plagarism is better than ANH
At peast try to hide that you're shilling
Too much world building, not enough quippy humor.
Better make Lightspeed / Hyperspace travel time instant, can't have exposition or conversations anymore. Just one liners and bullshit action all day.
So what if the Starkiller base is retarded, we gotta top the death star.
I'm not waiting on a sunset, we'll just circle them in a helicopter.
Someone else can handle all the backstory in the next one.
>J.J Abrams, "Memories from directing Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)"
>>64078742
>massively overrated ESB
w e w
>>64079530
The notion that TFA is better than ANH is far less ridiculous than to say that one of the worst films of all time is better than TFA.
>>64079354
>overly long opening sequence that has little to do with the overall film plot other than rescuing Han and showing Luke force choking pigmen
>Ewoks rather than Wookies
>Leia barely matters
>>64079417
I honestly don't understand why people like RotS. It had the most feedback to work with after a mediocre film and a turd of a film before it. It retains all of the problems Episode II had, from lack of practical sets/effects, lightsaber rave fights (arguably the worst), video game-y action sequences (again, arguably worse than EPII), shitty dialogue, incoherent plot, poor acting, etc.
>>64079389
Almost noone puts tfa above rotj, get a grip
>>64079570
>little to do with the plot
>rescuing a main character
>>64079566
Hardly. You quite literally have to be on the disney pay roll to even think that's true.
>>64079570
>rescuing a main character and establishing Luke's growth as a character
Sure didn't have anything to do with the plot no siree
>>64079543
>So what if the Starkiller base is retarded, we gotta top the death star.
It topped the fucking Sun Crusher. That's why it's fucking retarded.
>>64079609
I acknowledged that, but it didn't need to be a 30 minute sequence.
I'm waaaaaaaayyy too mature for small fluffy aliens. They just don't belong in my serious adult series.
>>64079660
Why not?
Just wanna wrap it up in 10 minutes with a few one liners?
>>64079660
Proves Luke to be a badass. Return to Tatooine. Resolves Jabba/Han conflict. Rancor scene. Sarlacc Pitt scene. I mean, whatever you think, man.
>>64079613
>>64079592
Kids today will grow up thinking that TFA is the best film in the series, and it'll be a legitimate opinion.
>>64078259
how can it be better when its no more than a glib facsimile
V > III=VII > VI > IV > II > I
>>64079677
Yes exactly that, it was a simple task of retrieving Han from a criminal den, it didn't need to be this ridiculously convoluted operation
TESB = space operatic drama that works good when viewing at home on the tv, but the middle is too weak for cinema
ANH = epic/adventure story that still works great when viewed in theatres but loses this bonus when watched at home
>>64079713
So it'll be just as legitimate as thinking the prequels are the best films in the series
>>64079543
Sounds about right
>>64079763
Every aspect of filmmaking that can be critiqued, mise-en-scene, acting, dialogue, etc, is better done in Episode VII than it is in the prequels.
>>64079750
What's it like being twelve?
>>64079805
There are more inconsistencies in VII than the prequel senpai, not debating on the shit script/CGI though.
>>64079805
That's a nice opinion, dear. I'm sure there's someone who disagrees unironicly.
>>64079821
>There are more inconsistencies in VII than the prequel
Such as? That seems like a nonsensical statement, especially for a fairy tale that shouldn't really even bother concerning itself with logical inconsistencies. It's not like Star Wars is science fiction.
>>64079859
>literally "DUDE TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN ITS A FAIRY TALE LMAO"
>>64078738
Yep. I felt it had the problems that any big movie has now. Did too much shit, too much action, so all of it seemed rushed.
I would have likes one less escape from tentacle monsters and nod to OT and some more character building.
I still think we may need to watch the whole trilogy before making comparisons.
This movie had some problems, but it still delivered for me. They managed to check all the Disney corporate checkbox and make a decent movie.
Regarding RotJ, I really grew to getting annoyed by it, not because I dislike it, but because the great stuff in it is ruined by filler and other bullshit.
Right now I'd say pre-special edition RotJ is better, because TFA has those problems movies have now that I said
>>64079433
>still care about them
>nobody gives a shit about Caravan of Courage, or Return of the Ewok
I think you are confused. The only reason anybody talks about them is because they were a centerpiece of ROTJ, and in part, because of the strikingly different nature the film took due to their being heavily involved in the plot.
I'm sure if TFA had a "cute/comedic" alien race with as much devoted screen time as the Ewoks or the Gungans, people would complain about the movie just as much as they do with ROTJ and TPM. But that's beside the point which I was trying to make, which had nothing to do with TFA. Only "Why do people shit on ROTJ".
>>64079660
Rather than making this sequence shoeter (it was one of the best of the film) I wouldnt have had Han and Leia wait in front of a door for 5 hours
>>64079891
You're the asshole who reads Shakespeare's Othello and complains that the plot is far-fetched. That's not the point. The Star Wars universe is about the characters and what the events signify symbolically. It's not science fiction, it's a monomyth story based on European and Asian folklore.
>>64079989
Fair enough.
>>64079522
that's what I said in the next paragraph lol.
>>64079327
it was a good shot but it implied a bunch of stuff about the Empire and the galaxy that didn't end up being true, apparently the Engineering Corps of the First Order is capable of undertaking projects 50x the scale of the Galactic Empire at the height of its strength... makes perfect sense
besides OT had better shots than that
>>64079891
They're space fairy tales. The prequels were political/romantic/comedy space movies with shit story and retarded charafters
>>64080001
Exactly, people forget Star Wars is basically a combination of a Kurosawa film and a Buck Rodgers serial.
>>64079859
>First order being able to build something like starkilled
>The whole resistance fleet composed by a whopping 15 fighters (maybe 30 if we want to be generous, though they looked no more than 15)
>First order shrugging off the loss of star killer base like it's nothing
>Republic not having taken control or dismantled all of the ex imperial forces (implying the remaining of their forces wouldn't have surrendered to the republic after the death of their generals/admiral/emperor/vader, after all they also were normal guys and probably tired of fighting)
>Rey beating kylo and before you come out with a retarded explanation think of it for 2 seconds about it before making a fool of your self
>Han losing the falcon and then strangely happening to be right on top of the planet where the falcon was despite saying he should've checked twice the system but was actually there just for a coincidence
>Stormtrooper indoctrinated from birth conveniently having remorse just when the best resistance pilot gets captured and subsequently frees him despite having no reason to while he (finn) could have just escaped during another ground raid
>poe disappearing and reappearing out of nowhere (not that there was any suspense in his "death" considering we've seen him in the trailers)
And these are just the things that come to my mind at the moment, there was much more dumb shit, like sheev missing the existence of snoke.
>Anyone born after '00
>III > VII > I > II > V > IV > VI
The OT is sooo boring
>>64079897
The film's biggest strength was its lack of exposition, which is something that's also true of A New Hope. TFA actually had more character development than A New Hope, but we view Luke, Han, and Leia through the prism of three films, not just one, so of course they're more developed than characters we've seen for only 2 hours.
Oh come the fuck on, why does everyone like this piece of shit now?
Adam Driver as Ren was exceptional and portrayed all of his conflicting emotions with style. He's one of the best things in the entire series thus far and hopefully they focus more on him in the sequel.
Otherwise I thought the movie was bland. There was no creativity or sense of adventure. It was a cautious retreading of familiar material played by an inferior cast save Driver. Poe's actor is phenomenal and wasted. Finn and Rey have no screen presence or development save flimsy set pieces meant to drive the story forward. A movie focused on Ren, Han, and Luke's factor in their severed relationship with sprinklings of some elusive new chosen one might have been better.
I didn't hate it, but I liked all of the other movies before this one. The prequels, for all their faults, at least contributed to the building of the universe. TFA was just fucking dull.
>>64080001
That doesn't excuse shit writing f a m.
You can have a fun universe while having a believable plot within the universe.
>>64080125
>TFA actually had more character development than A New Hope
Luke has more character development in the first 45 minutes of ANH than there is development in TFA watched twice
>>64079530
The shills have been even stronger since the release-and sadly a lot of people are falling for it
>>64080125
I agree that we'll have to see the teilogy to make an informed decision
Though I think they could have done something more with the character, they werent as compelling as in ANH. Rey is just perfect, wants to go back to jakku and then that's it, would have liked some more backstory on fynn andnmore screentime for poe. Imo they could have saceificed some of those "Whedon" jokes for more character building.
I loved Ren
>>64080232
Troof
>>64080083
>>First order being able to build something like starkilled
We don't know how they garner resources, especially in a Universe spanning galaxies. They can mine entire planets for ore and use slaves.
>>The whole resistance fleet composed by a whopping 15 fighters (maybe 30 if we want to be generous, though they looked no more than 15)
How many x-wings beat the Death Star in A New Hope? Like 8?
>>First order shrugging off the loss of star killer base like it's nothing
They don't shrug it off. All we have is the reaction from the people on the base itself, which was pretty chaotic.
>>Republic not having taken control or dismantled all of the ex imperial forces (implying the remaining of their forces wouldn't have surrendered to the republic after the death of their generals/admiral/emperor/vader, after all they also were normal guys and probably tired of fighting)
The First Order is full of fanatical loyalists. You can't dismantle terrorism that easily, otherwise ISIS wouldn't be a problem.
>>Rey beating kylo and before you come out with a retarded explanation think of it for 2 seconds about it before making a fool of your self
The film made a point to show that Kylo was seriously injured. He was hit by Chewy's blaster, which was able to send Stormtroopers flying.
>>Han losing the falcon and then strangely happening to be right on top of the planet where the falcon was despite saying he should've checked twice the system but was actually there just for a coincidence
The entire series is made of coincidences. Darth Vader built C3PO.
>>Stormtrooper indoctrinated from birth conveniently having remorse just when the best resistance pilot gets captured and subsequently frees him despite having no reason to while he (finn) could have just escaped during another ground raid
Movies are about extraordinary circumstances.
>>poe disappearing and reappearing out of nowhere
Poe wasn't a main character. It wasn't out of nowhere, he came back with the resistance.
>>64079327
there's no storytelling in this shot, it's literally just a cool shot. If you're going to talk about visual storytelling this isn't the shot to do it with.
>>64080351
Wow. Just wow.
>>64080351
>there's no storytelling in this shot
Articulates the passage of time, tells us the environment Rey is living in and what she does, gives us a sense of how the events of the original trilogy still affect planets that weren't even directly involve, shows us the aftermath of space battles which we don't see in Star Wars movies.
>>64080347
>We don't know how they garner resources, especially in a Universe spanning galaxies. They can mine entire planets for ore and use slaves.
And the republic let this go how?
>>64080347
>How many x-wings beat the Death Star in A New Hope? Like 8?
That was dumb as well never said the contrary
>>64080347
>They don't shrug it off. All we have is the reaction from the people on the base itself, which was pretty chaotic.
Snoke doesn't care about it in the slightest, people on base just want to save their life
>The film made a point to show that Kylo was seriously injured. He was hit by Chewy's blaster, which was able to send Stormtroopers flying.
I told you were going to be a dumbfuck, they literally LITERALLY AND FIGURATIVELY show how that makes him stronger, he hits himself on the injury to further tap into the dark side via pain.
>The entire series is made of coincidences. Darth Vader built C3PO.
>Movies are about extraordinary circumstances.
Sure, 2 or 3 of them, not the whole movie where every critical point is based around "le force did it", It's shit writing, unjustifiable, at least if they were going to pull the remorse card they could've avoided saying all the stormtroopers are indoctrinated from a very young age.
>Poe wasn't a main character. It wasn't out of nowhere, he came back with the resistance.
You are literally saying nothing and he is one of the main characters.
>>64080351
It's an establishing shot. It lets you know what Rey is salvaging, where she's salvaging it, what the environment is, other likewise downed starships... are you for real?
![for-sale-baby-shoes[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Byegxc8.jpg "for-sale-baby-shoes[1].jpg")
>>64080351
>implied context doesn't matter
>>64078259
The worst movie of the series.
A lot of potetial destroyed
>>64080451
I don't have the time to address every single point individually, and that's a boring way of debating anyways, but it's worth pointing out the distinction between how you think and how I think. To me what's matters about Star Wars are the characters and what the events signify symbolically. Star Wars was inspired by the Joseph Campbell dissection of myths from the around the world, myths that don't care about establishing an internal logic, but about telling a story that resonates with people in an innate way. Pointing out unexplained aspects of the lore and complaining about it is like complaining that poetry doesn't make sense when thought about literally, or that the lyrics of a beautiful song are stupid. You're missing the point.
>>64080655
It's closer to the best film in the series than the worst.
Nah.
But I wouldn't really mind if that's how you honestly feel. It's basically just a "soft" reboot of that film anyway.
>>64080949
Its in the middle at absolute most generous
>>64080915
>To me what's matters about Star Wars are the characters and what the events signify symbolically.
Listen, I don't mind coincidences and fun movies, but when everything becomes "it's the force that did it" it's shit writing, it's just a bad movie, basically the force in EP 7 isn't something that flows in the living creatures it's like the christian God that actually controls the destiny of the galaxy and forces people into certain roles, that actually fucking sucks.
>>64080980
There's a larger gulf between the films in the series that are worse than TFA than between the films that are better than TFA
>>64081014
Then you don't like Star Wars, which is fine. This conception of the force comes from A New Hope, and is made even more pronounced in Empire
>>64080083
>trying to apply real world logic to Star Wars
>fucking Star Wars of all movies
>implying Star Wars has ever had any pretensions of being a "hard" sci fi
ESB> ANH> ROTJ> ROTS> TFA> TPM> TCW
The only true ranking
>>64081022
The gap between RotS and tFA is pretty small and the gap between RotJ and tFA is enormous
It isn't better than RotJ or ANH.
>>64081102
That's absolute nonsense. TFA is leagues ahead of the prequel trilogy from every objective filmmaking standard.
>>64081058
If I was to apply real world logic I would ask how the FTL or the shielding or the lightsabers work in star wars, which is not what I'm asking.
And it's really not hard to make something consistent without going full retard like 7 did, just face it it's EU levels of retarded.
>>64081050
But I like star wars, the force in the original trilogy was just something around living creatures, something that some people were able to control to manipulate reality and get other powers from it, then in the prequels it became a power level race of midi-chlorians and in EP 7 there's no free will, it's the force that controls everything and everyone not the other way around.
>>64081143
>TFA is leagues ahead of the prequel trilogy from every objective filmmaking standard.
But noone is comparing TFA to the entire prequel trilogy you dumb fuck
>DUDE IF YOU TAKE THE AVERAGE OF TWO BAD MOVIES AND ONE DECENT ITS WORSE THAN MY DECENT MOVIE
>>64081143
Nope
>>64081177
>and in EP 7 there's no free will, it's the force that controls everything and everyone not the other way around.
As opposed to the force that made Luke meet up with his father and long lost twin sisters for no logical reason in the original trilogy.
>>64080125
This is wrong. ANH is filled to the brim with exposition.
>>64079570
>>64079660
Here's what the opening does:
>Ties movie in with previous movie
>Establishes the characters and their relations
>Showcases Luke's improvement since the last movie, by putting his newfound powers and skills on display
Maybe it could have been cut down a little bit, but it does a lot for the movie, even if it doesn't tie directly into the main conflict.
The droids getting captured and sold by Jawas and then getting cleaned by Luke didn't really propel A New Hope either, nor did Luke getting lost, looked for, saved, found and returned home in Empire Strikes Back, but I don't see anyone complaining about those things, though they did just about as much or even less to establish the entire cast, and didn't take just a minute either.
>>64081276
>As opposed to the force that made Luke
>???
What are you talking about? Obi wan was on the planet tatooine because he was watching over luke and leila was actually going to find obi wan so nothing of it was a coincidence, the only one and there's only 1 compared to the dozen of TFA is the fact that the raiders found the droids and went to sell them by luke's farm.
Then the droids proceed to tell luke what was their mission and he knows there's a weird old guy hanging around by the name ben and everything that follows is tied together.
>>64081143
>objective filmmaking standard
I agree with you, but that's a bad argument.
>>64080347
All your points are dumb.
>>64080347
>First order being able to build something like starkilled
Why not? We literally know nothing about their procurement capabilities or even how many worlds they control.
>The whole resistance fleet composed by a whopping 15 fighters (maybe 30 if we want to be generous, though they looked no more than 15)
Go watch Episode IV again and count the X Wings.
>First order shrugging off the loss of star killer base like it's nothing
The Republic lost 5 planets and they're entire fleet. The New Order. Lost one superweapon/planet. Sounds like a win to me.
>Republic not having taken control or dismantled all of the ex imperial forces (implying the remaining of their forces wouldn't have surrendered to the republic after the death of their generals/admiral/emperor/vader, after all they also were normal guys and probably tired of fighting)
Do you know how big the galaxy is in Star Wars? Literally thousands of planets, many of them with their own governors and fleets. Just because Sheev is dead, doesn't mean everyone is ready to call the Empire quits, much less would the Republic be able to overrun all the holdouts.
>Rey beating kylo and before you come out with a retarded explanation think of it for 2 seconds about it before making a fool of your self
(cont)
>>64078417
>the start of the movie is fucking great with jabbas palace etc
It is, but it falls flat in the context of the entire film. It could have been a short film in itself. It disrupts the structure of the film, causing it to blow its wad early.
>>64081482
>Go watch Episode IV again and count the X Wings.
The difference is, that the Resistance is at least in part supported by the Republic, and isn't an illegal organization, hunted throughout the galaxy by the Empire.
Also consider the fact that the Rebels had Y-Wings too, and unless I missed something, the Resistance literally has nothing but a couple of X-Wings.
Oh, and the rebels also had the blockade runner from the start of the movie, in spite of being hunted.
>>64081482
>Why not? We literally know nothing about their procurement capabilities or even how many worlds they control.
Because it doesn't make any fucking sense, all the grand moffs died if I remember correctly, what happened when hitler suicided? Yeah, his generals surrended shortly after, after the death of the emperor there was a legitimate change of government and since the troops weren't clone but actually people paid to do that job (as luke mentions there's even an academy where everyone can sign up to become part of the empire military) they would have to recognize the new government and obey them, we can sure guess that some went rogue and a small part became the first order but it's SMALL PART if they were big enough to subjugate planets and take slave labor or enough funds to buy something as big and dangerous as the starkiller the republic would have destroyed them a long time ago, there's not debate, holy shit I don't get how you people can be this dumb.
>Go watch Episode IV again and count the X Wings.
As I said that was retarded
>The Republic lost 5 planets and they're entire fleet. The New Order. Lost one superweapon/planet. Sounds like a win to me.
>
Do you know how big the galaxy is in Star Wars? Literally thousands of planets, many of them with their own governors and fleets. Just because Sheev is dead, doesn't mean everyone is ready to call the Empire quits, much less would the Republic be able to overrun all the holdouts.
Just read what you said, you contradict your self B R A V O.
>>64081482
>The Republic lost 5 planets and they're entire fleet. The New Order. Lost one superweapon/planet. Sounds like a win to me.
At what point is it stated that the Republic lost its entire fleet? I hear people bring this up here, but from what I remember seeing in the movie, there was no fleet present, and I don't see how the galaxy spanning Republic's entire fleet could be centralised around 5 planets.
Let's not forget that the Republic isn't some small organization. In the official merch, it's established that the Republic all but replaced the Empire, with the First Order being a last holdout, implying at the very least that around half the galaxy is the Republic's.
>>64081191
>But noone is comparing TFA to the entire prequel trilogy you dumb fuck
Except the numerous people who are. Have you read the thread?
>>64081702
>The gap between RotS and tFA is pretty small and the gap between RotJ and tFA is enormous
Clearly this post was referring to the entire prequel trilogy
>>64078861
>Rey's force powers fully awaken
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
It doesn't work that.
>>64081392
This is a retroactive explanation in the prequel trilogy. In the original trilogy R2D2 finding Leia's brother in a galaxy with millions of planets is a far more egregious coincidence than anything in TFA. At least Rey, Poe, and Finn have no apparent connection to any Original Trilogy main character.
>>64078516
I don't remember any shitty acting in TFA.
>>64081482
fuck meant to reply to
>>64080083
and >>64081177
anyway...
>Rey beating kylo and before you come out with a retarded explanation think of it for 2 seconds about it before making a fool of your self
Kylo wasn't even that powerful. He's just one of only THREE force users with any training in the entire galaxy. His only major feat until this point was killing a bunch of padawans. Big whoop. He barely even knows how to build a functional lightsaber. Everything about him screams insecurity and inexperience. That's why he's so obsessed with Vader and why he wears that mask. He wants people to think he's more threatening and powerful than he actually is. Rey beating him wasn't a surprise to me at all. Kylo's entire image was a big fucking act to mask how weak and unskilled he is in the ways of the force.
>Han losing the falcon and then strangely happening to be right on top of the planet where the falcon was despite saying he should've checked twice the system but was actually there just for a coincidence
Literally half the shit that happens in Star Wars is a massive coincidence. Hell, look at how they stumbled across Anakin or Luke/Rey found the droids. THE FORCE, etc.
>Stormtrooper indoctrinated from birth conveniently having remorse just when the best resistance pilot gets captured and subsequently frees him despite having no reason to while he (finn) could have just escaped during another ground raid
Finn was already under suspicion and he has no idea when another raid would come, much less if Poe would even be alive by then. That was also Finn's first combat action. Saw his friend (I assume, since they had some implied connection) die in front of him followed by a slaughter of civilians. That would mess anyone up.
>poe disappearing and reappearing out of nowhere (not that there was any suspense in his "death" considering we've seen him in the trailers)
Finn was dumped a mile or two away. Poe probably ended up in a similar way.
>>64081745
I wasn't referring to a single post. That's wrong, by the way. RoTJ is universally acknowledged to be a poor film.
>>64078259
I tend to put it around equal.
>>64078417
The Jabba part is only good because of Luke.
>send waves of his friends to infiltrate
>offer up droids as plant to smuggle in his lightsaber
>come in like a boss
>use legends of Jedi to intimidate
>Jabba doesn't buy it
>proceed to fuck their shit up
The real reason I love ROTJ his confrontation with Vader and the Emperor though.
>>64078259
Better than the precuels
Finn was a good character
Rey was pretty weak, but not as awful as some people say
Jokes weren't as annoying as people said
That's all I can give you
>>64081804
False. The Tantive 4 was heading to Tatooine since Leia needed to meet with Obi-Wan. Having Uncle Owen buy R2 and C3P0 was the coincidence, but at least the probability of that happening is much greater than what you suggest, let alone anything that happens in TFA. As soon as the Falcon appeared in TFA, it went from a great movie to a trite fanfic.
>>64079464
Without nostalgia glasses it's about on par in my opinion but benefits a bit from the forward March of technology and better action sequences.
I'd say,
Empire>Hope>Awakens>Jedi>Sith>>>>>Phantom>Clones
>>64081680
>At what point is it stated that the Republic lost its entire fleet?
They literally say that exact line in the film. try paying attention.
>>64081594
The Republic fleet was annihilated. They even say in the movie "without the Republic fleet, we're doomed" . Obviously paraphrasing, but you get the point. The Fleet was a non factor after the weapon was fired.
>>64081625
>bringing up the Nazis
Again, you're comparing real world scenarios to a fantasy sci fi universe where magical warrior monks fight with laser swords.
If you're even going to go down that road, try looking at what happened when the western Roman Empire fell. There were short lived rump states that emerged from remnants.
>>64081625
I didn't contradict myself at all. I said the Empire was organized in a decentralized manner. The Republic apparently decided to house all of their fleet in one system for whatever fucking reason. Again...
>logic
>Star Wars
fucking pointless.
>>64081823
>Kylo wasn't even that powerful
>Grandson of the most powerful force user ever
Killing a bunch of padawans was much more than anything Rey ever did, she was a very young girl when she was dropped on jakku she looks maybe 8 years old, if not younger, so she had 0 training in the force or lightsaber training it was the greatest example of super sayan deus ex.
>Literally half the shit that happens in Star Wars is a massive coincidence. Hell, look at how they stumbled across Anakin or Luke/Rey found the droids. THE FORCE, etc
Learn to fucking read>>64081392
>>64081804
Retroactive explanation my ass, unless I imagined everything I'm pretty sure obi was supposed to train luke to eventually beat his father but he kind of gave up.
>
Finn was already under suspicion and he has no idea when another raid would come, much less if Poe would even be alive by then. That was also Finn's first combat action. Saw his friend (I assume, since they had some implied connection) die in front of him followed by a slaughter of civilians. That would mess anyone up.
He has 0 reasons to care about poe Z E R O, yes it was implied that stormtrooper was his friends, but they should have shown a short scene of them both without helmet showing off their deep friendship, maybe during a launch and then an alarm going off signaling they were to launch a quick raid where he dies, but then the whole TFA is the epitome of shit writing.
>Finn was dumped a mile or two away. Poe probably ended up in a similar way.
Then why include him at all? Couldn't it have been a random pilot that dies on the torture chair? And that point finn decided to leave as soon as another occassion happens? Maybe on the planet with the new cantina, they have a raid, finn runs off in the forest, removes his stormtrooper shit and meets Rey, Poe is also introduced here as the ace pilot of the resistance.
>>64080236
>people disagree with me
>better throw around buzzwords
>>64081921
Leia bringing the droids to the brother she doesn't know about while being chased by the father she didn't know she had while that droid is accompanied by the droid her father built in his adolescence is a far larger coincidence than someone completely unrelated to Han Solo finding the stolen Falcon.
>>64082027
First post you replied to here:
As I remember, the line goes similar to how you quote later.
"Without the Republic Fleet we are lost", this I remember.
However, why would that mean that the fleet was destroyed? It just means it's not there to help them. You're assuming a lot. It could be that the Republic is not willing to launch a counter attack right away, it could be that they are too far away. Hell, it could be that it's engaged with the First Order on a different front, thinking that attacking the Starkiller base would be suicide.
As long as they don't outright say that the fleet is destroyed, just that it's not coming to help, we don't know that it's gone.
>>64082027
Again nothing you write justifies shit writing, I'm not asking for the fantasy elements to be explained but I'm expect the story to be coherent withing itself and it's not.
Also
>Empire
>Literally the definition of a centralist power it has even a new "emperor" which is snoke and controls it
>Decentralized
Then you come in saying the galaxy is enormous and we don't know how many ships the first order as (despite me explaining to you why almost all of the empire forces would've passed onto the republic) are around the galaxy but conveniently the entire (cit. you) THE ENTIRE fleet of the republic is concentrated on 5 nobody planets, one of them isn't even coruscant (the capital of both the old republic and the empire) instead of having various minor fleets around the galaxy patrolling the borders.
Your explanation is as retarded as this whole movie.
>>64081099
>ROTS> TFA
Come on now. TFA wasn't perfect, but ROTS is very bad. The dialogue is the worst of any Star Wars movie, and the visuals aren't good. The story of exactly how Anakin becomes Darth Vader is flawed as well.
This is the correct ranking:
The Empire Strikes Back- 10/10
The Force Awakens- 9.5/10
A New Hope- 9/10
Return of the Jedi- 8/10
Revenge of the Sith- 8/10
The Phantom Menace- 5/10
Attack of the Clones- 3/10
>>64081850
>Episode 6 Luke
>confident, but not arrogant. Powerful, but not a Mary Sue. Competent in the force and a true Jedi. He has a clear character arc that led up to the skills he has in the movie. Willing to go into the heart of the dark side in order to save his family and the ones he loves
>Episode 7 Luke
>Runs away from everything as soon as something bad happens. Couldn't see obvious shit like Kylo turning evil right next to him. Character doesn't resemble any of the personality or heroism that we saw in the OT. Lets his best friend in the galaxy die and doesn't even mention it when we finally see him in the film (and that helicopter shot was vomit-inducing, jesus what was hackbrams thinking). Luke Skywalker is supposed to be a hero, according to George Lucas and millions of high-schoolers who analyze the Hero's Journey, and yet JJ irrevocably ruined Luke's character without even giving him a line of dialogue.
TFA is worse than all three OT movies because it has stupid shit that makes no sense like this, dumb world-building (The New Republic just let the FO build a third deathstar for 30 years, even though they clearly had the resources to crush them?), rehashed plot from EU and ANH, and a boring main protagonist that we have no reason to cheer for since she's hyper-competent at everything. It's a shame too because the actors are all very good besides Carrie Fisher and they're all wasted on a plot that falls apart when you analyze it for 10 minutes.
V > IV > VII > VI > I > III > II
>>64082247
fucking this
>>64082055
>He has 0 reasons to care about poe
He breaks Poe out because he needs a pilot to help him escape, not because he cared about Poe.
>>64082118
>Organa's support the rebellion
>Leia uses her royal / political status to do covert Rebel Operations
>Her father tells her about Obi-wan and to give him the plans
>Get caught above Tatooine by the empire
The only coincidence is that Anakin built C-3P0, which has no bearing on ANH at all, and that the Owens ended up buying the droids.
Everything else was a deliberate plan. If the Empire didn't catch Leia, she would have landed and found Obi-Wan and took him to Alderaan or the Rebel Headquarters.
It's also possible he would have introduced her to Luke, or told him about his heritage before he left. Or he could have left him to be a simple farmer.
>>64081482
>Go watch Episode IV again and count the X Wings.
that's the problem. why the fuck is it 20 years later and the Resistance can only manage to muster a fleet smaller than or equal to the one stationed at Yavin in ANH? doesn't make sense as a story
not to mention it's all just X wings now instead of the fighter diversity seen in RotJ
>>64082317
>he doesn't know that The Resistance is the hard line military arm of the (New) Republic
Yeah no
Y-wings were old as shit in ANH
B-wings were expensive as well as A-wings
>>64078259
Better than ANH? No probably not. But its damn close, and also probably more fun to watch
>>64082279
As opposed to finding the Falcon, which was as simple as using a tracker that was blocked on Jakku. You're simultaneously downplaying the coincidences in ANH while exaggerating the ones in TFA.
>>64082272
>He breaks Poe out because he needs a pilot to help him escape, not because he cared about Poe.
He could've run off as soon as raid happened, much less risky than being shot down by a star destroyer and/or a storm of enemy fighters and it would also have been a better character development, he pulls a 180 despite being indoctrinate since childhood and on screen beside the death of what is to us a random stormtrooper we have no reasons to think he should leave.
Not just that though, he feels bad for that one stormtrooper but he doesn't think twice about killing dozens of his brothers in arms to escape.
He could have feign death during a raid or run off in the forests or in any good occasion he could've have had without massacring his own kind, that would have made him a much better character.
Holy shit if JJ isn't an hack.
>>64082055
Have you watched the original trilogy more than once? Jedi training was so fucking downplayed, it was almost comical. Luke literally spent a week or two with Obi Wan before he died, and he was still having trouble blocking training lasers. Even by Empire, on Hoth he barely has enough control over the Force to force pull his lightsaber. He spends a week or two with Yoda, during which he demonstrates he's still barely adequate to be called even a Knight...
But then all of a sudden he can go toe to toe with Vader. a guy who's literally killed most of the Jedi order personally in h2h combat pluse countless other feets.
Rey beating a hurt, overhyped tryhard edgelord crybaby Kylo is hardly a shock.
Plus, the relation between bloodline and strength in the force is dubious, at best. Leia never turned out to be much of a Jedi herself despite having some degree of Force awareness even in the new canon.
>>64082140
I feel like I'm talking to literal mongoloids.
Watch the movie again. There's 20 minutes of dialogue where they state the whole point of the attack was to wipe out the Republic fleet, and then afterward stating that the fleet was destroyed. I saw the movie twice. I know I'm not hallucinating.
>>64082055
>He has 0 reasons to care about poe Z E R O
He was a pilot. That was reason enough.
THEY EVEN HAVE A CONVERSATION EXPLAINING THIS EXACT CIRCUMSTANCE IN THE MOVIE HOLY FUCK ARE YOU EVEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS MOVIE YOU'RE SHITTING ON??
>>64082405
>THEY EVEN HAVE A CONVERSATION EXPLAINING THIS EXACT CIRCUMSTANCE IN THE MOVIE HOLY FUCK ARE YOU EVEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS MOVIE YOU'RE SHITTING ON??
I do but you are so fucking retarded you can't even read an entire sentence I''ve spelled it again here for you, fucking moron.>>64082404
>The Force Awakens has an 81 on Metacritic
>The Empire Strikes Back has a 79 on Metacritic
>>64082399
It's not that Han found the Falcon, we as an audience want him to have the Falcon.
It's HOW he found it, instantly and was instantly there, right then when it has been established that traveling even at light speed takes travel time. Which TFA retcons.
So, Han was waiting in space, was awake and ready to punch in some coordinates to a random system, ready to rock and roll, while simultaneously running a smuggling operation with zany monsters and zany criminal gangs after him.
I think you're downplaying TFA coincidences.
>>64082405
He doesn't go toe to toe with Vader. Vader bests him with ease once he gets serious. He's toying with Luke and trying to turn him so he can overthrow the emperor. Pay attention to the movie please. Yoda even tells him he isn't ready.
>>64082404
>much less risky than being shot down by a star destroyer and/or a storm of enemy fighters
You're asking that someone think logically during an emotional situation. This isn't how people behave in real life you fucking autist. He's not going to immediately escape while Kylo Ren is right there, and he needs a moment to process his feelings on the situation.
>he pulls a 180 despite being indoctrinate since childhood
Which happens in real life all the fucking time. It also happens to be the first time he saw combat, which makes the violence all the more real for him.
>he feels bad for that one stormtrooper but he doesn't think twice about killing dozens of his brothers in arms to escape.
He kills them out of pure self-defense. Should he have just let them shoot him?
>Holy shit if JJ isn't an hack.
He's an infinitely more talented writer than George Lucas.
>>64082118
And all of those "concidences" were retroactively introduced in Episode 5,6, and 1. Therefore, you cannot fault any Episode 4 for any egregious coincidences because the filmmakers at the time never intended for these concidences. By the way, everyone acknowledges that Anakin building C3P0 is fucking retarded so I don't know what you bring that up like we're all okay with it.
Also I like how you conveniently ignore the other coincidences that immediately follow them finding the falcon, Han and Chewie immediately find the falcon (the falcon gets past the star destroyer because reasons) even though the movie never makes it clear that they were actively searching for the millennium falcon (they were delivering tentacle monsters. By the way that whole sequence was fucking pointless and was absolute filler of the worst kind). After THAT, they go to a cantina that somehow has Luke Skywalker's 1st lightsaber, which should've been crushed by the gravity of Bespin decades ago, in which they literally explain it away by saying that it's a "story for another time" (fuck you jj hackrams).
Meanwhile Rey's explaining her retarded backstory of waiting on the hellhole that is Jakku for someone that will never come for her. And we're supposed to root for this character? If characters don't act like people then there's no reason for us to care at all about them. I won't say that Rey's quite the mary sue because she does run away like a coward and gets captured for it which forces some clumsy character development but she's definitely the weakest of the 3 main protagonists.
>>64082405
>Have you watched the original trilogy more than once? Jedi training was so fucking downplayed, it was almost comical. Luke literally spent a week or two with Obi Wan before he died, and he was still having trouble blocking training lasers. Even by Empire, on Hoth he barely has enough control over the Force to force pull his lightsaber. He spends a week or two with Yoda, during which he demonstrates he's still barely adequate to be called even a Knight...
Yes and that shows how hard it is to master the force.
>>64082405
>But then all of a sudden he can go toe to toe with Vader. a guy who's literally killed most of the Jedi order personally in h2h combat pluse countless other feets.
All of sudden? He went back off screen to train with yoda and the whole sequence against jabba shows this >>64079522
>Rey beating a hurt, overhyped tryhard edgelord crybaby Kylo is hardly a shock.
Standing by the artbook he was a fully trained jedi knight, that managed to kill all other padawans (again something a thousands time more than Rey ever did) and was also trained in the dark side, although not yet a sith (as snoke said "now it's time to complete his training") and they even show him using the pain of the injury to intensify his powers, they literally showed you twice him doing that.
>
Plus, the relation between bloodline and strength in the force is dubious, at best. Leia never turned out to be much of a Jedi herself despite having some degree of Force awareness even in the new canon.
Topkek both vader and yoda say that "there's another" vader even clearly says that it's leia, dubious my ass, you all that are defending ep 7 can only mention what is comfortable for your shit instead of taking the objective facts.
>>64082531
We don't know the amount of time that passes between Rey getting the Falcon and Han finding it, or the build of Han's smuggling ship. Therese are irrelevant complaints.
>>64082399
The coinciences in ANH aren't really applicable because they were retroactively introduced by future movies. How dense are you? I hope that santa gives you more wisdom for the next year...
Also there is no tracker as far as I know and I've also checked the wiki so I think that it's clear that you're a disney apologist shill that's trying to pass TFA as the hip new thing that's so much better than the OT (It's not.)
>>64082622
Try watching the movie for real this time.
>>64082574
>Which happens in real life all the fucking time. It also happens to be the first time he saw combat, which makes the violence all the more real for him.
You have 0 clue of what indoctrination is, have you ever seen a member of the ISIS pull a 180 after they decapitated 20 innocents? No right?
Fucking moron, talking about things you have no clue about, child soldiers in african that fight since they are 5 years old have no remorse of what they do and they can't even have that because they don't understand what a "normal" situation is, we're not talking about someone that was forcefully recruited in a levy army when he was 18 he was taken as a child and went under an indoctrination proccess IIRC phasma herself talks about a re-indoctrination which also implied they use some kind of torture or chemicals perhaps to make them loyal.
>>64082518
Just proves that OTfags are subhuman contrarian mouthbreathers that wouldn't recognize a modern masterpiece if it hit them in the face :^)
>>64082593
I'm not faulting Episode 4, i'm faulting the original trilogy as a whole. This bullshit is introduced in Episode V, which is often referred to as the best film the series by mouth breathers.
As for the coincidences, almost all of it can be explained by lore; they're holes not contradictions. But my feelings on them are summed up by this post>>64080915
It doesn't matter. Star Wars isn't about logical consistency the same way that poetry isn't about the literal meaning of each individual line. A suspension of disbelief in required when watching a fairy tale with space wizards.
>>64079327
>This shot alone does visual storytelling better than anything in the original trilogy
Why, if they hadn't just reset the entire conflict then it would be a meaningful shot.
>>64082710
Defectors are a dime a dozen you fucking idiot. You have no knowledge of the history of Nazism or the Soviet Union.
>after they decapitated 20 innocents?
So you missed the part where they made it clear that this was the first time he saw combat?
>>64078259
Love this "TFA acceptance on /tv/" narrative Disney shills are trying to force down our throat.
>>64082620
>Topkek both vader and yoda say that "there's another" vader even clearly says that it's leia, dubious my ass
That's my point. She has potential, which I acknowledged. Hasn't done shit with it.
>All of sudden? He went back off screen to train with yoda and the whole sequence against jabba
I was talking about up to Empire when he had his first duel. Obviously, by Jedi (much later) he's destroying motherfuckers. But before that he was shit, yet still survived an encounter with Vader. Sure, he was being toyed with, but he wasn't flailing around like a retard either... and he was just some farm kid with zero fighting experience. Rey at least displayed some measure of fighting acumen before even becoming force aware.
Going back to the fight... she wasn't even dominant until Kylo got overconfident and gave her time to calm down. He was toying with her as well. He wanted to be her teacher. The majority of the fight is just her literally running away from him and doing defensive swipes and pokes.
>>64079327
it tells the story of rehash tripe. remember this look ,look remember.
>>64079327
>>64082847
Here let me give an example of a shot that's 10 times better than that, and it's only a 1-second segment in the middle of an action scene.
Vader stands next to the window while Luke's face is obscured. The audience's attention naturally goes for the lightsabers and at Vader, since he's a black figure in front of a light background. Luke has one foot in the light, and one foot in the darkness, symbolizing Vader trying to tempt him into the dark side. Like I said, this shot only occurs for 1 second so it's not supposed to be a "wow so cool" shot that the Jakku shot or the scene where Kylo kills Han are supposed to be. It's subtle, yet says all that needs to be said about the relationship between Luke and Vader.
>>64082931
But he's been training by himself since ANH. It's not like he didn't do anything in his spare time from rising in the Rebel ranks. He also uses the force to fight, just like blocking blaster bolts. This does not translate to 0 fighting experience, he uses the force and at least trains with droids. MAYBE he even listens to ghost Obi more than we think. He appears all the fucking time and gives sage advice.
Once Vader gets serious and displays a bit of his true power, Luke is helpless and resigns himself to suicide but is saved by the force / luck / coincidence.
>>64082213
>The Force Awakens
>9.5
>better than ANH
>better than RotJ
I can see why you might like it more than RotJ at least, but it's not a 9.5.
>>64082855
>Nazism or the Soviet Union.
You have literally 0 reading comprehension holy shit how can you be this stupid and be able to even use a computer.
Nazi and soviet people weren't indoctrinated they willingly chose their leaders and to support the revolution, the people enlisted in the respective armies were also fighting for their country and were of a certain age they weren't taken as children and trained for fighting, tortured or abused since young age. The only exception was towards the end of the war for nazi germany but they didn't go for 5 years old it was still 13-15 years old kids and they weren't relegated to "hard" combat roles, mostly ammo carrying.
You literally have 0 clue of what you are talking about.
>>64082438
I read it. It's stupid.
>>64082404
>He could've run off as soon as raid happened
Why? He didn't freak out until he he started processing what was going on around him. That's what shook him. He wasn't ready to bail before shit got real. You know, like any normal human being would.
How? Literally guys holding blasters everywhere and sith-in-waiting ready to ice you. Not to mention having to battle against years of conditioning to conform.
Where? They're in the middle of literally nowhere. No food. No water for miles. No transport. Breaking ranks and running off then would have been the dumbest idea ever.
>Not just that though, he feels bad for that one stormtrooper but he doesn't think twice about killing dozens of his brothers in arms to escape.
Self defense. Literally kill or be killed. He didn't really have a choice.
>He could have feign death
With a magic space wizard there? Not likely.
>Holy shit if JJ isn't an hack.
Not even 1/1000th of the hack that Lucas is
>>64080486
it's pandering shot nothing more. Poetry is better than pandering.
>>64078259
TFA is slightly better than ROTJ and not as good as ANH.
>>64083161
>Nazi and soviet people weren't indoctrinated they willingly chose their leaders and to support the revolution
The Nazi party was voted for by less than half of the German population, and there's no way of determining support for the Soviet Union given the lack of electorally determined decisions. The notion the the majority of people supported them is a fallacy.
>the people enlisted in the respective armies were also fighting for their country and were of a certain age they weren't taken as children and trained for fighting,
The people were drafted in both cases, and their ideological indoctrination started in school during their childhood.
>trained for fighting, tortured or abused since young age.
We don't know the first order's method of indoctrination. It could very well be similar to the Soviet Union's method. You're nitpicking off assumptions.
>>64083284
V > IV > VI > III = VII (bonus points for nostalgia, even though it has the worst story telling in the franchise) > I > II
>>64079277
take your nostalgia goggles off grandpa
>>64083237
God forbid that they put Star Wars stuff in the sequel to Star Wars
>>64079277
>I'll grant that Jedi had some retarded shit but the highs that it hit were leagues above anything in TFA.
This. I think The Force Awakens is, in several respects, better assembled and more consistent. But it's comparatively very empty and bland.
OT > TFA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prequels
>>64083583
Holy nuanced opinions, Batman!
Those aren't allowed here. It's either complete reddit pleb shit, or the best movie in the franchise since empire
>>64083068
What's demonstrated > what you can assume
My point still stands, Luke was so inexperienced in the Force even after months of training alone that he could barely muster the concentration to pull his own lightsaber toward him. But that was enough to make him confident and not panic in the fight with Vader until shit got serious.
Same could easily be applied to the Rey-Kylo duel.
>>64083866
But he was gravely injured when he did the force pull, just like Kylo was gravely injured.
Also he was trained by a Jedi master for a brief period who TOLD him he was not ready. He just wanted to save his friends, and he didn't go toe to toe with Vader. He surprised Vader by how much he improved since he saw him on the Deathstar, and then he got wrecked. It's not like Vader was sucking his dick, proclaiming him the second coming after he manages to force jump which he shows that he can do on Dagobah. He kicks him. He gets a shot in, but other than that he gets humiliated and bested, not go toe to toe.
Rey is shown being able to mind trick people on her second try. That's all. Yet she can best someone who uses the force daily, can stop a blaster bolt mid flight, and displays powerful force abilities by knocking out nignog with ease.
It was a hackfest, hamfisted fight on a hamfisted, unneeded set piece.
>people actually thinking TFA is better than RotJ
>>64084034
>Yet she can best someone who uses the force daily, can stop a blaster bolt mid flight, and displays powerful force abilities by knocking out nignog with ease.
And he was injured and most of all distraught over what he had just done.
In the end he wasn't trying to kill her either, he wanted her on his side because he wasn't confident. Because he's a pussy ass faggot.
There's plenty of reasons to justify why Kylo Ren lost that fight. None of them speak on behalf of Rey's talents.
>>64084034
>Rey is shown being able to mind trick people on her second try. That's all.
I'm gonna agree with you there. That part was dumb. It would have been better if she just got out while the stormtrooper tried to tighten the restraints. But it's not so stupid that it pissed me off. It's sort of nitpicking.
>Yet she can best someone who uses the force daily, can stop a blaster bolt mid flight, and displays powerful force abilities by knocking out nignog with ease.
Like I said, Kylo was peacocking the whole movie. At that moment, he had just killed his father (clearly not in a very stable, calm state of mind) and had been gut shot with the Wookie version of an anti-material rifle. It's not a stretch to think he's devoting most of his concentration to stop himself from bleeding out. Hell, you can just look at the way he's moving and see he's not at the top of his game.
he's also not expecting Finn or Rey to put up much of a fight. He doesn't even take Finn seriously until he gets a lucky shot in and then just obliterates him. Rey got the added benefit of the doubt from him because he wanted to capture her. He only got BTFO when he eased up and got caught off guard by her raw strength. Again, he just KILLED HIS FATHER, then out of nowhere this girl who'd just been running for her life suddenly taps into the Force and Hulks out on him. He just wasn't prepared for that mentally or physically.
5 > 4 > 7 > 6 > 3 > 2 > 1
She won because she's written to be naturally amazing at everything she touches.
He lost because he just got shot on the stomach and was a little distraught.
All of this will work out great if she falls to the dark side and he comes back to the good.
Otherwise it's going to be trash as the movie was trash with some very minor exceptions. Still better trash and than episode 1 to 3 though.
>>64085249
Rey will have a ham-fisted dark side chapter but will get back on track on her convenience and everything will end well for her.
Screenshot this.
>>64085249
>>64085357
What possible motivation does Rey have for going to the Dark Side based purely off of what we know so far. I'm genuinely curious.
>>64085401
The Glib Facsimile wills it.
>>64085401
dude she's a mindwiped sith lmao
>>64078259
Official power rankings
7 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 6 > 5 > 4
4 was the most boring one and had only one lightsaber fight. It's close between 2 and 1 but the yoda unveil was even more epic than darth maul, episode 3 is good too but yoda and darth sidious dont fight with lightsabers for long enough and general greivous was shit compared to the anime.
>>64085479
>People will seriously reply to this post
>>64078694
My absolute negro.
>>64085401
Not motivation, that might come later (when she finds out who dropped her on that planet maybe). It's the temper. She's naturally exceeding everyone around her. She's highly emotional, strongly attached to people and droids, seems to have no composure or self-control. She reads Kylo Ren's fears and uses the knowledge to hurt him. She easily manipulates a storm trooper. Later she beats him purely with the power of her by anger by madly wailing on him trying to stab him to death like a good Sith would. It's only by sheer coincidence she didn't just kill a mentally unstable, wounded young man lying at her feet.
That being said it won't be that way. >>64085357
Is correct.
>>64085479
free reply
>>64078259
It's the second best Star Wars flick ever. The Empire Strikes Back is still the best of the lot.
>>64079010
>It doesn't work very well as a standalone movie.
Because it's part of a trilogy, numbnuts.
Neither did TESB, ROTJ, AOTC or ROTS
>>64085401
>What possible motivation does Rey have for going to the Dark Side based purely off of what we know so far.
99% sure it will tie to her unknown past and she'll realize that she was betrayed/used/manipulated/abandoned/mind-wiped/etc from it.
>>64078694
I can cosign this
>female
>can't even stand legs together
Trolling and piss poor taste. I'm getting too old for 4chan,
hey /tv/
I watched TFA and hated it and I don't know why so i decided to marathon the hole saga, but I'm not sure in what order should I watch em'?
help pls
>>64078447
It was epic for the win senpaitachi
>>64079306
acceptable
but I'd say...
TESB - 10/10 (This is one of maybe... 4 or 5 films I've seen in my life I'd consider giving a perfect score to. It transcends the rest of the series.)
ANH - 8.5/10 (only deducting points because it's a Hidden Fortress remake)
RotJ - 7.5/10 (fucking Ewoks, awkward Luke-Leia relationship weirdness... but we get closure)
TFA - 7/10 (flawed, but breathed new life into the franchise. leaves you wanting)
RotS - 5/10 (mediocre, but not a trainwreck)
TPM - 4/10 (no change here)
AotC - 2/10 (ehhh, some of the action is cool even though it's aged horribly. I find it hard to give any movie a one, unless there's absolutely nothing redeemable about it. There was a lot of praise for the technical aspects of the film upon its release that are still valid. But this is definitely the absolute lowest point SWs has ever achieved)
>>64079327
The shot only works if you have no knowledge of physics whatsoever. Otherwise, it's dumb as shit.
>>64081099
this is pretty much the official /tv/ ranking of Star Wars
>>64086298
4-5-6-1-2-3 senpai
>>64078283
ROTJ is shit, face it nostalgiafag
>>64085401
She's psychologically unstable, just like Kylo. Abandonment issues, yo.
>>64086741
No it isn't, fuck off ADD-kid
Let's face it, it's a meme to hate RotJ and a meme to love it.
You can't escape the memedom.
>>64086616
>rots better than rotj
No FUCK THIS MEME
>>64086595
>The shot only works if you have no knowledge of physics whatsoever. Otherwise, it's dumb as shit.
HAHAHAHAHAHA IT'S FUCKING STAR WARS.
5 > 4 > 7 = 6 > 3 > 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>64086854
Seriously, It was my favorite when I was a kid,
I rewatched the whole thing for VII and ROTJ was fucking trash tier in comparison of V and IV.
>>64079327
Cheap fucking callback
>>64085401
Whatever our hope and confirmation bias can desperately scrounge up to give her some actual depth of character
>>64087403
I'd say it serves the purpose of its own movie, hinting at what happened to the Empire in the years we didn't see.
But since I still don't fucking know where the First Order comes from, yeah, just a callback.
>>64079327
Yeah it's symbolic for what has happened to Star Wars in the real world because of easily placated faggots like you
>>64087419
Yeah... because Rey is so much less developed than Luke at the end of ANH, right? It's not like this is first part of a trilogy or anything, so I guess that's reasonable criticism. Mmm hmm...
III > V > VI > IV > I > VII > II
>>64078460
>>64087544
Luke actually develops a lot more as a character since most things that happen to him is by his choice, ie. going with ben, rescuing the princess, joining the rebellion etc. Ray just gets attacked and runs away, then gets kidnapped. Almost nothing of what happens to her is by her own choice, she's just a victim of circumstance.
>>64087779
>R2D2 and C3PO winding up on the same planet as Leia's long lost brother by pure fucking chance isn't a coincidence
>Luke CHOSE to have his family murdered and become a fugitive of the empire
What. Am. I. Reading.
Holy shit. Just stop.
>kylo was weakened because of blaster
>he's not even strong in the force
>he's the son of leia organa, means he's a direct descendant of a skywalker
>he stopped laser beams using the force
who stopped laser beams again? oh wait no one else except kylo ren, and oh he is TRAINED in saber fights. There's literally 0 explanation how the fuck can he be outdueled by someone with 0 force and saber training.
>>64079805
come on, nobody believes you are not on disney payroll if you are this obvious
>>64087875
hello reddit, I see the selective attention doesn't seem to bother you
>>64088046
cool non argument you got there, tumblr :^)
>>64087979
>>64087882
>There's literally 0 explanation how the fuck can he be outdueled by someone with 0 force and saber training
>I didn't watch the movie and am talking out of my ass
This is what I hear every time someone says this.
>>64088158
The biggest virgins seem to come out over star wars arguments, you sir claim first place.
Also not the same guy you were arguing with just had to shut you down.
>>64088158
Did I trigger you? I don't need a structured argument to point out that that guy didn't even have one.
>Holy shit. Just stop you shitlord.
Go fling shit over your hurt feelings somewhere else.
Ranking
>A New Hope
*The* ultimate Star Wars film. Timeless and essentially flawless.
>Return of the Jedi
The most fun of all the Star Wars movies. Great characters and fun times all around.
>The Phantom Menace
A fresh, daring entry into the Star Wars franchise.
>The Empire Stikes Back
While good, it really has a much bleaker and less fun vibe than the other movies.
>Return of the Sith
An average film, not bad. Not great. Average.
>Attack of the Clones
Much better second half than first.
>The Force Awakens
No reason for this to exist, essentially a useless remake of the original classic, but inferior in every way. A complete spineless cash grab that offers nothing new. Bad.
