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>>64072814

Also, Prequel fans should support the argument that the Special Edition changes are blocking people from seeing the Prequels more favorably.

If Prequel fans want more people to enjoy The Prequels, then they should support the OT fans in wanting the Original Trilogy released unofficially in its unaltered form.

Yup.

>>64072814
I don't know how much, but I'd pay a whole lot for a 4K/HD/whatever remaster of the theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy with things like black and white R2 fixed and other visual stuff. No Boba Fett walking onto the set and staring at the camera. No "waka chuka bah wah Vu wot loo waaaaahhhhh yah" in Jabba's palace. Just visual update. The only substantive change that might be okay is putting Palpatine is as the Emperor in Episode 5 instead of weird chimp woman. But even then it's not a huge deal.

>>64072814
You went from

critically acclaimed cinematice masterpiece in Empire Strikes back

to 2 consecutive raspberry award winners for worst movie of the year

He ruined star wars whether he touched the originals or not

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>>64073288

Yeah but at least George should've kept the OT in original form in order to cement his legacy.

George Romero makes garbage and yet people still remember him more for Dawn of the Dead instead of Land of the Dead. People still talk about The Godfather instead of "Jack" when it comes to Coppola. Years from now, Peter Jackson will be remembered for the LoTR instead of The Hobbit or King Kong.

And they did that because they hold dearly to the works that defined them instead of bringing it closer to their more recent, shittier works.

George Lucas' attempt to make The OT look more like The Prequels ruined his legacy, and the only thing he can do now is to allow Disney to release the OT in unaltered form.

>>64072814
you are all fucking stupid. The OT was always meant for kids and would have been vastly different had Lucas had the technology he had for the PT. Also he even says that the first few episodes are the most boring parts of the grand story because its at the height of the republic and there is a lot of bureaucracy with dealing with a senate. Just look at the current US senate and its dysfunction .

The films where and have always been for kids. That is why almost all of Lucas films where PG. The only reason why Revenge of the Sith was PG-13 is because it was teh darkest chapter. IF lucas had done episode 7 it would have been PG and full of huge CGI sets. Fat 40+ dudes would have thrown a massive fit. Crying about their childhood being ruined. How about you fucks grow up and realize that these movies are meant for children.

>>64073440
Well there's also a lot of hullabaloo about just how much of Star Wars was Lucas, and how much was the guiding hand of Gary Kurtz, particularly since when he left the weakest of the originals followed

>>64073288
It's the shoehorning in of characters that ruined it. It's a huge galaxy but apparently there are only a handful of important characters. Chewbacca the smuggler? Friend of Yoda in the Clone Wars. Annoying comic relief character "Jar Jar of the OT" Threepio? Built by 10 year-old Anakin and owned for 8 or so years by Uncle Owen. Crime boss Jabba the Hutt? Here he is spitting a fish head at a gong to signify the start of a race in which 10 year-old Darth Vader pilots a pod to save Old Ben and Co's mission and impress his buddy 10 year-old Greedo. R2-D2? He can fly and used to belong to Darth Vader. Boba Fett, the background character whose toys sold well due to a cool looking mask? He's actually a clone of his dad, who happens to be the original body from which thousands (more?) of clones are produced that one day become Stormtroopers. Oh and If you look closely there's the Millenium Falcon in the corner over there. Oh and this ship? It's the Tantive IV. And see that? Oh look it's the Death Star again. Oh look Obi-Wan's cutting off someone's arm in a bar again look haha.

>>64073526
>The films where and have always been for kids.

yes especially with the charred corpses of luke's foster parents and the severed arm in the cantina scene

star wars is not mature, but saying it was a series for kid is absurd. Lucas suddenly decided in 6 that it was a kid story and that's it.

but star wars- the goods part of the ot- are not to be credited to Lucas

It's always been about the toys

>>64073526

If The OT was meant for kids then he shouldn't be changing shit.

There is literally no reason for Greedo to shoot first. What the fuck does that have to do with children?

Star Wars is for everyone, not just kids you know.

>>64073642

This

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>>64073652
only after the old bear walked out

In his ending han Dies in the opening of ROTJ, and Luke wanders off broken into the galaxy

>>64073642
god damn you must have had a childhood with nothing bad happening to you. Old children stories where often violent dark at times. Disney has put out cartoons with some graphic deaths that were cartoons for kids. Its meant for kids not fucking toddlers.

He changed shooting the dude because George got older and wiser. Its not good to encourage kids to just shoot someone down just because you owed them money. you only shoot someone if you have too. I.E. he had to shoot him because he shot at him first. Its not as if the PT didnt have dark shit in it too. In Attack of the Clones Darth Anikin slaughters a whole villages of sand people. Women and children. He also gets his arm cut off by dookie in that movie.

>>64073679
Star wars now is for everyone because Disney wants dat fanboi money from fat 40 year olds with no kids that collect toys they leave in boxes because MUH collectible value. Face it Star Wars was always for kids and lots of you fucks dont want to grow up.

>>64073977

Yes, but if Star Wars is truly for kids then The Knights of the Old Republic should've not existed.

The whole purpose of KoToR was an exploration of The Force resulting from the popularity of Star Wars beyond children.

Also, the National Film Registry listed Star Wars as "Sci-Fi" instead of "Children", so there. Just visit the LoC and it's in the Sci-Fi section, not Children's section.

Also, Greedo shooting Han was not in the original script:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/original-star-wars-script-discovered-in-unb-library-1.3104206

So, there.

>>64074313
So no Sci Fi can be for kids? That is a dumb statement.

KoToR is a video game not a movie. Also lucas didnt make this. He let someone else use the star wars universe. Also its rated T not M so its still a PG-13 game. Maybe that story needed to be PG-13 like RoTS.

>>64074471

No, it means that Star Wars has evolved into becoming something for EVERYONE!

Star Wars can also be a date movie too, you know (Especially Empire Strikes Back). it's a different beast from something like Richie Rich or Dora the Explorer.

Let's get down to nuts and bolts here. Lucas apparently felt the success of ANH was a fluke and he didn't feel confident enough in his abilities as a director, so he didn't direct ESB and ROTJ.

Flash forward 17 years. Lucas decides he is going to direct all of the prequels because he feels the need to prove to himself that he can write and direct...except the world ends up discovering that he's neither outstanding at writing or directing.

The fans beat him up pretty bad and they still continue to take punches at him after all these years. But the one person that probably is hardest on him when he sits alone at night is probably himself. Because now he KNOWS that he's not that good of writer and director. He will have to live with that to his grave.

I will give him this though. He may not be a good writer or director, but he is the best producer in the game and an excellent all around business man. Because when he produces a movie you can guarantee that every penny that is spent is seen on the screen and nothing is wasted.

>>64074719
I agree generally.

What I've read even with respects to American Graffiti and SW ANH is that important/significant changes were made to the movies against Lucas's wishes that ended up making those movies better in hindsight. Much better with regards to SW.

I like THX.... a lot actually. I wish he had stayed with that kind of experimentation and themes for a while longer. Probably no money in experimental films like that.

>>64074731
He sucks at writing and directing?

Funny...last time I checked he wrote all six SW movies (with Kasdan, Hales, and Stoppard polishing the dialogue in different episodes).

And whilst he didn't direct TESB or ROTJ, he was very frequently on set giving directions (evident in BTS footage) and what ended up in the final cut was his decision, not Kershner or Marquand's decision.
Despite what detractors here try to do by attempting to re-write history, SW was like tv shows during this period; for example the creative minds responsible for GoT are Benioff and Weiss not whoever is hired to direct certain episodes. Same with SW.

And the reason Lucas didn't direct TESB or ROTJ is well documented. He wanted more time to raise his newly adopted daughter. That didn't go according to plan though, because Kurtz once again (but not the last time) fucked up and nearly destroyed SW for the 2nd time.

People care too much about these small ass changes. The un altered versions are still there if you're that autistic enough too care.

>>64074731
What changes?

>>64074747
The script work done by Kasdan was a lot more than dialog polishes, and Leigh Brackett wrote the first draft for TESB from scratch with rough notes from Lucas, who did everything he could to get out of writing a script, but was forced to do a draft after Brackett's death. which Lucas then used Brackett's draft as a template for rewrites. I've read Brackett's draft - there's a lot of stuff that ended up in the movie.

Also Lucas was concerned at numerous points about the direction that ESB was taking. He thought Kurtz and Kershner were ruining his vision for the film; for example, he thought it wasn't sufficiently action-oriented compared with ANH and tried editing footage himself to produce that effect, but couldn't do it. Then Lucas had an explosive meeting with Kurtz and Kershner where he complained that the former was going overbudget and should instead cut scenes to save money. Kurtz thought this would ruin the movie and instead asked Kershner to hurry up, but the latter wanted to take his time. The positive influence Kurtz had on the Star Wars movies cannot be overstated. He is an un-sung hero, often having to solve problems caused by Lucas's sullen personality during filming, and his incessant need to get the films done quickly to save money. Kurtz became one of the first victims of Lucas's later power - he didn't want anyone around him who dared to say "no".

>>64074782
Google Kurtz made Star Wars what it is, Irvin Kershner was the mastermind behind Empire Strikes back

There was a gigantic wealth of experience, talent and passion for cinema behind the original trilogy, the prequels and the sequels are toy factories

>>64074841
Lucas was on-set during the entire Jedi shoot, but he was NOT on set much for the Empire shoot, only visiting for a few days each month. His time was spent mostly at ILM over-seeing effects (after he had a nightmare with ILM crew during Star Wars, as he felt they weren't working fast enough). When Lucas was on set for the Empire shoot he was mostly unhappy with what he saw being shot, but hoped it could be "fixed" in the edit.

>>64074651
Dora is for toddlers. Kids are generally regarded as being from 5-10 with 10-12 being a preteen.

Sure the expanded universe can evolve. However ever Lucas' Canon was always movies for kids. Everything else outside of that is just fanboys. As far as being a date movie? I really dont think star wars is a date movie unless they chick actually like star wars. If she doesnt like star wars and you take her to any of them movies she is gonna look at you like wtf kid grow up. Unless of course you are a kid. If you are older than 25 dont take a chick that doesnt care for star wars to see star wars on a date. It will end badly for you.

>>64074846
>>64074857
So much perversion of history BS in your post it's not even funny.

But praising Kurtz IS quite hilarious. Kurtz, for decades, has spun this yarn that somehow he was a co-creator of Star Wars, and deserves much of the praise for ANH and TESB. Unfortunately he's had a ready audience of OT-only fans who have concluded that Lucas jumped the shark and Kurtz must have reigned him in. Yeah, that would be neat if it were all true, but it's not. All people have to do is look at Kurtz and Lucas's track record after their "divorce" to reveal the truth:

Post Empire Kurtz has two major studio films to his name, The Dark Crystal, and Return to Oz. Interestingly in both cases the studio wanted Kurtz fired because both films were wildly over budget and behind schedule, and The Dark Crystal ended the friendship between Kurtz and Jim Henson because Kurtz kept trying to insert himself into the creative process, and the Dark Crystal was Henson's baby. Now to show you what kind of a douchebag Lucas is, he went to Disney and lobbied to studio to keep both his friend Walter Murch as director AND Kurtz as Executive Producer despite Disney wanting to fire Kurtz on the spot. Lucas supervised the end of the production and gave the studio some of his own money as insurance... boy that Lucas sure is a jerk and Kurtz such an ''unsung hero'', right?

Post Oz, no one in the studio would touch Kurtz with a 30 foot electric cattle prod because the man simple could not keep big budget movies under control... just look at the list: Star Wars, Empire, Dark Crystal, Return to Oz. And I'm sure that had to grind his gears because after all he was the line producer on two of the most successful films of all time. Meanwhile Lucas continued to churn out hit after hit and successfully grew a company he had envisioned when Kurtz was still a part of the team.

So lets establish a couple of things here, Lucas and Kurtz were not best buds. If you look at Lucas, like most people, he has friends, and he
has business partners/co-workers. Walter Murch, Brian de Palma, John Milius, Francis Coppola are all friends. In fact Lucas' friends have been friends for decades, he clearly values friendships. Heck the evidence that Lucas and Kurtz were never buddies can be found in Francis Ford Coppola. Coppola and Lucas had an enormous and public falling out, mainly based on Coppola's resentment of Lucas' success (Coppola said as much), but that relationship was patched up long ago and they remain close friends to this day. Kurtz was never in that inner circle; he was a guy hired to do a job. Heck Lucas even attempted to "bury the hatchet" years ago and invited him to his AFI Awards dinner, and involved him in a number of Star Wars anniversary projects, even while Kurtz was bad mouthing him on the convention circuit... Again., man that Lucas is a Class-A jerk and Kurtz such an ''unsung hero'', right?

>>64074871

>Sure the expanded universe can evolve. However ever Lucas' Canon was always movies for kids. Everything else outside of that is just fanboys.

But still, it has evolved beyond being a kid's film.

That is what matters.

>As far as being a date movie? I really dont think star wars is a date movie unless they chick actually like star wars. If she doesnt like star wars and you take her to any of them movies she is gonna look at you like wtf kid grow up. Unless of course you are a kid. If you are older than 25 dont take a chick that doesnt care for star wars to see star wars on a date. It will end badly for you.

I know people who got laid from watching Empire Strikes Back.

It's a pretty romantic film

>>64074927
Nice to see you exclaim a perversion of history and then cherry pick a neat little story.

interviews with Hamill, Fischer and Ford all portray Kurtz as an integral part of the production process, and held in regard as high as Lucas.

The finished products alone of Hope and Empire speak volumes to their talents, and Jedi speaks volumes itself about the result of their exclusion.

>>64074968
>>64074927
So the crux of your argument is going over budget makes him a villain?

If going over budget produces Hope and Empire and fiscal frugality produces Jedi and the prequels, I'm very glad they went over budget.

Now Kurtz is out there spinning more fiction:

1) Like "Fox wasn't worried about Star Wars' budget." Seriously??? What planet is he from? This is the same studio that was pinching pennies and barely spending money on their final movie in one of their tentpole franchises, "Planet of the Apes." They spent a whopping grand total of $1.7 million on Battle for the Planet of the Apes (quit a bit of that on promotion, the actual production budget was closer to $1 million and it shows), does Kurtz seriously expect people to believe that Fox was not concerned when the budget moved from $7.5 million to $10.5 million, especially when few on the board believed in, or understood the project? That's simply fantasy.

2) He also stated that Lucas basically wanted to "remote control" Kershner during Empire. Yeah, the first person I'd think of to remote control as a director would be MY FORMER TEACHER... yeah, that's going to happen. I can pretty much guarantee if I asked my former Filmmaking 101 teacher to shut up and direct the movie I hired them for the way I want it, he would tell me to pound sand. Irvin Kershner was old enough to have fought in WWII and had decades of filmmaking experience going into this movie; the last person you would hire if you want to "remote control" a director is someone who's been involved in filmmaking since you were sucking your thumb. You would select an up and coming direct. No, J.W. Rinzler's "Making of Empire" makes it clear why Lucas became involved in the production... cost overruns and budget delays. Lucas hired Kershner because he trusted him, and he fully expected he would be able to sit back in California and focus on post production and editing. Kurtz's failures as a producer forced Lucas to come to London to get Empire back.
on track.

>>64074997
People getting laid from a movie? lol nope. Them chicks just wanted to get fucked and wanted the guy to like them. but again it might be true and those chicks probably liked star wars to begin with

Thats like saying My little pony has evloved because fat manchildren watch it. Is it still made for kids shown on a kids network? Yes it is still made for kids and they just acknowledge the fat manchildren that watch the show.

Manchildren just want the movies to evolve aka grow up with them. They dont want to pass down the torch to children they want to still be a kid. There is a way to watch a movie for kids and see it as just taht. Its a movie for kids and enjoy it that way. Manchildren get butt hurt about this notion. So selfish.

3) Lucas never was influenced by Joseph Campbell. How the hell would Kurtz know? He wouldn't he's just talking out of his butt. Lucas never states that Star Wars was entirely based on Campbell's work, what he has always contended was that Star Wars, like other myths, follows certain patterns which was a central thesis of Campbell's. Lucas makes it very clear in the process of working on the early drafts of Star Wars that he started to do more research and came across Campbell:

"...that's when I started doing more strenuous research on fairy tales, folklore, and mythology, and I started reading Joe's books. Before that I hadn't read any of Joe's books. It was very eerie because in reading The Hero With A Thousand Faces I began to realize that my first draft of Star Wars was following classic motifs, so I modified my next draft according to what I'd been learning about classical motifs and made it a little bit more consistent."

That seems fairly reasonable, and I doubt Kurtz would have any knowledge if that were the case. Given that Marcia Lucas confirms that during the writing process of Jedi Lucas has Campbell's books on his shelf, it's pretty reasonable to assume he was using them as a guide. I'm really not sure what Kurtz is trying to insinuate here, and it's fairly silly. It's patently obvious to anyone with half a brain that Lucas was influenced by multiple sources when it came to Star Wars. All one has todo is look at the motifs and themes running through the OT, the PT and TCW to see that.

The answer is ultimately no, the prequels sucked a lot on their own and established Lucas as the anti-Orson Welles. Him fucking with the original trilogy just added a cherry to the top of the shit pie because it made him look like a massive hypocrit due to his earlier criticisms of Hollywood colorizing films decades after their release.

The truth is that if the prequels were good on a fundamental level, people wouldn't have cared so much about Lucas fucking with the older movies because it's a put up or shut up thing, people will tolerate you being a weird pedantic asshole a lot more of you're producing good work because then you're an eccentric genius and because Lucas wasn't producing he was seen as an incompetent has been.

>>64075102
I've never met too many female SW fans; probably 90% of SW fans are white male neckbeards.

>>64075141
its because you only have 10 friend with one of them being female. 90% neckbeard

Regardless of whether Lucas wrote the OT scripts or not, it's obvious that whatever writing talent he had in the 70s was totally gone by 1999. Also even with the OT, he had to be repeatedly stopped from inserting retarded autism into the scripts. When he did get his way, the result was stuff like Ewoks.

>>64075076
>"Fox wasn't worried about Star Wars' budget."
Dull lies. Lucas and Kurtz pithed the picture at 6 million, Fox gave them 7.5, it was extended afterwards.

Fox watched the prescreen and we can only speculate about the discussions amongst fox about what happened after that, who you believe is neither here nor there, and you'll forgive me if i don't take your amateur theories about film production as evidence.

"He also stated that Lucas basically wanted to "remote control" Kershner during Empire."
Well it has been made clear numerous times that Lucas disliked much of the shooting in Empire and wanted to change it back to his original vision, if you see the original scenes George prepared, including the infamous Bespin rewrite, you'd see that Kershner and the cast managed to salvage what was Prequel tier dialogue into a cinematic masterpiece.

>>64075195
There is no difference between the writing of the OT & the PT.
He was as good a writer as he was for the PT as he was for the OT.

Problem is many people can't think for themselves and only ''see'' problems when someone else points them out or creates them by means of footage manipulation like Stoklasa did .

>>64075195
errrbody knows the Ewoks where suppose to be wookies but they couldnt figure out how to do that so they went with ewoks instead. It was suppose to be chewwbaccas planet

>>64075123
"Lucas never was influenced by Joseph Campbell."

Kurtz has said himself talk about Star Wars began as an attempt to acquire flash Gordon and then, during production of American Graffiti, began to take shape as astory in and of itself, the bland insinuation that Kurtz has said George was directly influenced by Campbell is another dull missinterpretation

>>64075210
Did you not watch the Plinkett reviews? There are tons of things wrong with the movies. There are so many things in the story that don't make sense. The characters are one-dimensional autists who don't act like real people. Everything is made of really fake looking CG. A shining example would be Anakin's reaction after the emperor kills the (badly miscast) Mace Windu. Anakin is helped him because the emperor told him he could stop Padme from dying (which, itself, makes no sense because their technology is far, far more advanced than ours), right? Anakin says something along the lines of "If I do this, are you sure you can save Padme?", to which the emperor replies: "I don't know how, but I'm sure we can find out." At that point, Anakin should've immediately said "YOU DIDN'T TELL ME THAT PART! YOU TRICKED ME! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?". On top of that, Padme was due to give birth very shortly, so why didn't he question if they'd be able to find out how to stop and reverse death (which is what Anakin wanted to find out) in such a short amount of time (much of which would have to be spent going around killing a bunch of people)? Please tell me how that moment is not unbelievably stupid. These movies are full of things like that.

>>64075210
dis white nigga gets it

>>64075240
really poor bait

>>64075210
Yeah we didn't have to look very hard for problems in the prequels there kiddo

1 and 2 both won worst film of the year in the raspberries the year they were released, stop rewriting history

>>64075102

So how do you explain Doctor Who?

Doctor Who did exactly what Star Wars was supposed to do: it evolved from being a kids show into a show that even the Queen watches.

The BBC prides itself on Dr.Who's evolution. Why shouldn't Star Wars do the same?

>>64072957
It had nothing to do with prequel fans

Nobody but george Lucas thinks forcing shit is a good idea

>>64075240
Yes I have watched them multiple times. Nothing wrong except Stoklasa's ''reviews'' themselves.

Stoklasa & you are accusing real sets, miniatures & bigatures as ''everything is made of really fake looking CG''. Factually wrong.

Palpatine only essentially promised the Dark Side was the power to save Padme. And if Anakin had said this stupid thing you said, Palpatine would kill him. Anakin had to play along. And since I've already said there are twice more ''problems'' like that in the OT, here's just two
:
1) Why did Vader let Luke drop himself in TESB? He obviously could levitate him, just like he did with the stuff he threw at him moments before, and either capture him or kill him.
2) Yoda says that if necessary Luke should sacrifice Han, Chewbacca and... Leia?! The
"other" last hope? Even if Lucas hadn't planned to make Leia into Luke's sister while making ESB, now we are looking at original TRILOGY, which is "flawless".

The thing is these nerdy nitpickings on fantasy films are entirely missing the point! The SW films are clearly built within a mythopoetic frame. This implies a particular mode of ''reading'' them. If you don’t agree, fine, but you can’t then claim to be an insightful ''reader'' at that point, and I can lower my opinion of your critical relevance.

Whine about Vishnu being unrealistic. Go read Gilgamesh, and all tell me about the snappy dialogue. Find me the witty repartee in the four Gospels or Acts. Quote me Buddha’s one liners as he machine gun-blasts the villain into his next life. Explain to me the logical reasons behind Mideia's actions.

Characters and their dialogue serve the structure in myth. If you don’t get that, you’ll continue to think that “bad” dialogue is the point. Your misinterpretation is what’s actually revealed.

P.S. The people in SW are not real people. They're aliens in a GFFA; some of them with 1970s haircuts and Brooklyn accents, lol.

>>64075102
I guess the term 'all ages' is lost on you, and all permavirgins who can't contemplate a movie designed for family viewing

>>64075313
>>64075240
stop samefagging, noone is buying this

>>64075313
I'm not going to argue the points with you because obviously you think the prequels are ok, God knows how, despite all the plot holes, the dry cringeworthy dialog and the wooden acting. What you cannot argue with is that in my opinion the prequels are pure excrement and it will be many many many years before they can be redone and the Lucas ones can be banished forever.

>>64075291
Not the anon you're talking to but I honestly think it comes down to commercial american company nature vs BBC long-term success plan. Doctor Who's clear creative voices (RTD and Moffat for the revival) also are just more consistent and sensible than Lucas, though they lack the utter imagination.

>>64075343
>I'm not going to argue the points with you because obviously you think the prequels are ok,
And I am not going to debate them with you because you obviously think the OT is dogma. And I don't like dogmatic narrow views of Plinkett sheep.
>despite all the plot holes, the dry cringeworthy dialog and the wooden acting
This applies to the OT much more so than it does to the PT.
>What you cannot argue with is that in my opinion the prequels are pure excrement
Like you said, YOUR opinion. Now go watch the ''masterpieces'' Revenge of the eggplant & gorilla interrupted.
>and it will be many many many years before they can be redone
If they are redone, it will be all six.
>and the Lucas ones can be banished forever
Are you a book-burning Nazi? Or ISIS? Just to clarify.

>>64075240
Anakin kept having dreams of Padme dying. So he knew it was serious given that they have super advanced tech and she was stilll going to die. The Emperor sees anakin as the chosen one also. Together they can save billions of lives and keep the galaxy from full out total war. The emperor even says this. He says that their will finally be peace in the galaxy again. Now the emporer gave Anakin the choice. He told him it is possible to save her and they can figure it out. Unbeknownst to anakin because , because his emotions were so unstable, that we he made his choice to join the sith that it killed padme because she could not follow that path and he was not coming back. So to her the man she fell in love with is dead and instead its darth vader in his place. Someone that kills kids with no regard because its better for the people as a whole if he does this. She was not raised that way she always believed in the republic and democracy.

I swear to god people can not think for themselves anymore.

Anything else you cant figure out?

It's not wrong; almost every set if not every set was a blue/green room. Palpatine said that the Dark Dide could saved Padme and then when Anakin asked about it after he helped Palpatine kill Mace Windu, Palpatine said he didn't know how, but was sure that they could find out. That should have IMMEDIATELY made him turn against Palpatine. How was what I said stupid? That's what a real person in that situation would do. And he wasn't playing along. None of those thoughts occurred to him ever. He could have played along, and then as soon as he left, told all the Jedi about him. In the likely event that he couldn't control himself at that realization, a realistic character wouldn't care and would rather die. Padme was due to give birth soon, so why did Anakin believe that they could both unlock the secrets of the force and kill all those people in such a short amount of time? Why would Anakin even believe a person like that, and a stranger, would actually help him and wasn't just lying to him to use him? Why couldn't they with their advanced technology perform a cesarean on Padme? The only reason he became evil was to save Padme, so after she died, he had no reason to stay with Palpatine, so why did he?

The standard of writing that we all use to determine bad writing is if the characters do things that make no sense. Most people can't take a story seriously when it makes no sense and empathize with characters who stupidly make their problems worse/make themselves a burden on other people/don't do the obvious thing that would solve the problem. Most people can't care about stories that revolve around that. If a story can only exist because of how incompetent its characters are, it's a bad story. If characters do things that make no sense or don't do obvious things that would obviously and very easily solve their problems, it's bad writing. Anakin and Padme had absolutely no reason to fall in love with each other, but only did because George Lucas said so.

>>64075458
Your point is literally that I'm applying logic to these movies and I'm wrong to do that and that we shouldn't have standards and that can should just be able to do whatever they want with the plots and characters no matter how ridiculous it is, and that's the problem: these movies aren't good when you use logic. You probably like the character writing of modern South Park. Writers and fans that think like you are the reason why The Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, and post-movie Spongebob suck so much ass now. You like it when characters get worse. I'm glad that you can enjoy nonsensical stories, but my standards are a bit higher than that.

P.S. The characters might not be real people, but characters in a story that is meant to be taken seriously should still act like they're real people. Your point is stupid.

Look, they're just shit movies, plain and simple.

Just forget about it...he will never be able to see how bad these movies were.

>>64075423
>>64075414
>>64075458
>>64075313
>>64075240
You're embarrassing yourself talking about internet reviews, and doubly so for emulating them by over explaining minutiae of failed films.

The Prequels didn't lack scope, or models or 'feeling', they lacked a competent script and production team.

>>64075458
Wrong.

How many examples do you want?
Palpatine's office? Set.
Padme's appartment? Set & miniature
Naboo ? Sets & On location.
Geonosis arena? Set & bigature.
Geonosis hangar? Set.
Kashyyyk? Bigatures & live shot backplates
Utapau? Set & bigatures.
Invisible Hand? Set.
Mustafar? Set & bigatures.
Dex's diner? Set & miniature.
Jedi Temple? Set, bigatures & 1 scene with a digital set
Tatooine? Sets & on location.
etc.
Same techniques are used in TFA only labeled ''practical'' this time around, lol.

>>64075520
Now without going into details:
- Palpatine wasn't a stranger. He was Anakin's mentor since he left Tatooine. And unlike Obi, Palpatine didn't scold him all the time but stroke his ego.
- Palpatine said the Dark Side could be used to save Padme and Anakin should immerse himself in it (by later killing the Jedi & Seps). THAT's the HOW! He never claimed to know Plagueis secret of creating life himself. Oh, and real people who have a close loved one on the bring of the death REALLY DO clutch at even lesser straws to save them (i've lived through that myself more than once).
- Anakin crossed the line. He ''helped'' Palpatine kill Mace Windu, a Jedi Master. There's no turning back from this. There's no way the Jedi will forgive him for what he's done. He just wanted to stop the fight so that he could get what he wanted and now, he's made a commitment to Palpatine so he would help him save Padme.
BTW, ''a realistic character wouldn't care and would rather die.'''??? What? WHAT? W-H-A-T?
- If Anakin didn't join Palpatine he would be killed or risked being killed by Palpatine himself or Order 66 which WOULD FOLLOW since Palpatine knew the Jedi had found out about him.

>>64075555
- The babies were delivered because she was dying from reasons unknown. It wasn't ''very soon''.
BTW, ''Why couldn't they with their advanced technology perform a cesarean on Padme?'' LOL, what? WHAT? How would a cesarean help? Dude, Anakin saw a vision that she would die in childbirth! Last time he had such a vision his mother died! For all Anakin knew from his vision, a Caesarian could be the very thing that would kill her.
And if we're going that route...Why did Vader's breathing system break down after the lightning strike of Palps in ROTJ? Shouldn't they know of something very simple called a freaking FARADAY CAGE?lol.
- There were many reasons which resulted in him turning to the Dark Side (which in case you missed it from the OT, it's very hard to escape from) not just to save Padme. Besides, Anakin had nothing to go back to; joining the Emperor was the only thing he could do in trying to bring what he too perceived as safety & security to the Galaxy...and his own psyche!
...Fuck, i feel like I'm explaining things to a nerd straight out of The Big Bang Theory. Just watch the movies again. If you can't tell what going on, then it's your problem, not of the story or the writing of the movies themselves.

>>64075591
Look, like I said before, i don't really care about ''Stoklasian'' questions based on misrepresentations/misinterpretations (which you call ''logic'') of what actually happened in the movies (which i have watched many times).
I have come to realize that these type of questions mostly come from either autistic nerds without any understanding of human behavior that have never left their basement OR from people who haven't even watched the movies and are simply parroting Plinkett's BS cause it's ''cool'' & ''geek-hipster'' to hate on the PT & Lucas.

My point was that you're applying double standards!
Do you really want me to engage in pointing out stuff that's ACTUALLY retarded from the OT? Which i will if you continue this shit, since It's obvious you can't do it yourself!
Now...Why haven't you answered my 2 points i made before?
Probably because your mind has gotten so numb from Hollywood feeding you with ''heroes'' that make ''great choices'' that you never question the motives or logic behind them. Could you even point me to the last Tragedy revolving around a Tragic Hero you've watched? Don't think yo can...Try it...Please...

>>64072814
Why the hell did George go back and fuck up New Hope? It feels so fucking jarring, I mean they replaced these beautiful hand crafted X-wing models with shitty cg renders, they put fucking storm troopers riding dinosaurs into the background of every scene. A painfully obvious cg flyover of the city in tatooine. It hurts me right in the childhood. I mean I know he edited the other two films, but I feel like New Hope got hit with the ugly stick the worst.

Can you still get the original cut on dvd?

IS IT POSSIBLE TO FIND THE THEATRICAL RELEASE OF STAR WARS WITHOUT ALL THE GEORGE LUCAS FUCKERY?

Seriously Jedi Rocks was one of the worst things I've ever witnessed in movies

>>64075603
May i also suggest you read some of the material i mentioned before? Especially the 2000+yo masterpiece of Mideia. Or Oedipus King. Hell even Heracles' myths would have people like you & Stoklasa twisting your panties at people making (what would later prove to be) bad choices out of passion in dire situations; and not ''great choices'' with the ''logic'' of an outside viewer who doesn't even bother understanding the characters & situations...

May I honestly ask how would you have Anakin turn to the Dark Side? I'm curious. I'm sure you have your own fanfiction about it..

BTW, Anakin & Padme had more reasons to fall in love than Han & Leia ever did.
Which is easy because Han & Leia never had ANY reason. We weren't even shown why they fell in love; they just somehow did in between ANH & TESB. Why? How? Where? The world will never know...

P.S. That was a mild joke. Sorry but my repertoire doesn't involve Plinkett level jokes about rape & bestiality which is what you most probably enjoy.

P.P.S. I don't watch ''The Simpsons (stopped more than 15 years ago), South Park, Family Guy, and post-movie Spongebob''.

>>64075458
Well you dont know how to pay attention or you are trolling. If you are a troll 10+ for length. If you are not a troll ten you should read more books.

You can not say what a real aka normal person would do in that situation. Also anakin knew both macu windu and papatine almost his whole life. Certainly he knew them and talked with them both during his jeid training palpatine tells anakin about past sith lords and what they were capable of. Giving anakin his first thoughts of how powerful he thinks he might be able to become. He was after all anointed the chosen one by the sith and jedi. This is why papletine keeps him close and being that anakin has issues with keeping his emotions in check and still being young naive and in love it was much easier to manipulate him. Had he been born and raised a jedi like all the rest then he would have a lot more control over his emotions and he would not have hooked up with natilie portman. This is why the jedi counsel was so heistante about training him. They knew he was very powerful but he could also be easiler swayed. So why even take the risk in training him at all? Because the sith would have found him on their own eventually and raised him as a sith.

God damn think mother fuckers. You just look a the pictures huh and dont pay attention. You are better off watchign Bay's Transformers because that what you seem to want in a film. Something that doesnt even make you try to think

He's a great producer, and an amazing cinematographer, he's even a good storyteller, but a good screenwriter-- a good director, he is not.
The only reason A New Hope succeeded was because he was still up-and-coming at the time and still had to answer to the money men.
I imagine if he had as much freedom in the 1970s as he did during the Prequel shoots, he'd of fucked that movie up, too.

Another thing: those twenty-or-so pilots they bring with them from Naboo. Yes, we know they bring the pilots, because when they return to Naboo they let the pilots out to take the ships on the planet. This means that during the escape from Naboo the twenty pilots were right there, in the ship. When they break through the blockade. When they go to Tatooine and spend days there. When they fly away from Tatooine and land in the capital. Yet you never see them.

>>64075611
> claims to be a huge star wars fan
> not knowledgeable to know about the convoluted DVD releases which people discuss ad infinitum.

Just download the specialised editions, it's the closest you'll ever get.

The originals were good because they were meant to be a campy homage to old adventure films, Errol Flynn, John Wayne, pulp fiction, etc. The prequels were a bunch of unnecessary backstory that WAAY overplayed the origin of a single character and never knew what it was actually focusing on.

The prequels are indeed how George would've made the first ones if he could. But not because of the tech, it was because he had a team of people back then to throw out his stupid ideas. When the prequels were made his name already took all the credit for the originals and he was able to do whatever he wanted.

Yep. The second of the first movies was directed by his teacher from movie-making school, whatever you call it. It was a great production, and Lucas got all the credit, so then he had a heavier hand in the third movie - giving us forest trolls defeating the top-top-top fighters of the galaxy-spanning empire.

By the way, those Ewoks. First they are going to eat other intelligent beings who they have captured, which is just as horrific as cannibalism. The little monsters only halt their plans because they are fooled into thinking C3PO is a god. This deception goes on so the humans can remain uneaten. They decide to get back at the Ewoks by using them in a war against other humans, a war they have no part in. The Ewoks fight and die without knowing why, because they think C3PO is a god and he tells them to. I don't know whether to despise the monsters or pity them.

>>64075682
did you see them taking a shit or a shower? Does everything need to be explained to you? I cant tell you how security details work in the western world. They have a small team around the person being protected and then another strike (much bigger) some where else. So maybe those 20 fucks with their planes where probably put in quarters while the senator does the thing in the senate.

>>64075701
I never claimed to be a huge fan. But New Hope was my childhood, watched it on VHS until the tape wore out, and to get the dvd a couple years later and suddenly be presented with cg eyesores like that really hit me in the childhood.

And thanks for the tip.

I was just watching The Phantom Menace commentary and it occurred to me. The answer to the question: "Who is the main character of the movie?" The main character is... Jar jar Binks.

Think about it. He's introduced right near the beginning, He's there for the first meeting of Anakin and spurs Padme into action by saying "Yousa people gonna die?" It's even suggested that he changes her preconceived notions about the Gungans. As stated in the commentary, he's the only character with an arc. He has a whole quarter of the climax dedicated to him. He is the most central character in this movie. So... there ya go. The answer to the mystery.

>>64075760
Well I'll be damned, you are right. Jar Jar even started as a loser and became one of the highest commanding officers of the GunGan (Gungas) army. The ARC!!

Why JarJar of all characters...well at least he didn't get a 'hot' GunGan wife.

I believe it was George's attempt at subterfuge. He hates working with actors. And even though he did actually have to use an actor to help make the CGI rabbit possible, I think in his mind it was a definite step in an actor-less direction.

He was so convinced that the world was gonna fall in love with this character. He was probably even saving that Gungan wife for one of the sequels... because obviously people were going to be screaming for more. And there might have even been a little bit more Jar-jar in the script making it clearer that he is the main guy... but then the editors subtly trimmed it back (while George wasn't looking) so it wasn't quite so obvious. That's how I like to imagine it going down anyway.

Then of course when the hate mail came rolling in and George FINALLY woke up from his self-delusion, they decided to pretend that Jar-jar was a bit player who'd already done his bit. Not the main character who got the biggest character-demotion ever.

>>64075708
thats not even true at all. The first star wars movie was a fluke. No one thought it was going to be the blockbuster it was. So he probably had an idea of what story he wanted to tell with the first star wars and after it was a success he fleshed out the rest of the stories. RoTS was going to end on the lava planet but Lucas' production team said yo dude you need more shit in here to really tie it up. Thats why you see the throw back at the end.

The one saving grace is that these movies really didn't age well, and the only people with any kind of nostalgia for them are mostly Millenials. They have no redeeming qualities for anyone else, and if Abrams doesn't fuck up the new one too badly then kids in the future might just ignore the prequels all together.

Of course I'm probably being way too optimistic.

>>64075823
i am guessing you are like 45 years old, right?

>>64075823
No. No. No, no, no, no. You have not talked to any Millennials if you believe this.

>>64075845
I didn't say ALL Millenials. :)

But yes most of the prequel fans I've met were indeed (later) Millenials, since they're the ones who grew up with it. Fuck, look on any Youtube commenter white knighting the prequels. They're almost always late teens - early 20s kids.

>>64075845
Have you ever actually met, in real life, a human being who liked the prequels? I haven't.

There's just so much wrong with TPM that it's impossible to cover all of it, even in a 70 min. review. You can talk about all the major things, but then when you get right down to it even seemingly minor issues turn out to have major implications. Take the bongo (?) ride through the planet core, for example. I get that in science fantasy like Star Wars you have to suspend disbelief a little, but like Plinkett says in the Episode II review you can't stretch the rules of reality too far or it becomes ridiculous.

First of all, to get down far enough to even reach the planet's crust at the bottom of the ocean the bongo would have to be able to withstand enormous amounts of pressure, as would the people inside of it. Next, you have the issue of not only having to dig a tunnel through the center of the planet in order to make this kind of travel possible, but actually then traveling through it. This only works if the entire planet has no molten layers or a core that is extremely hot and extremely pressurized. So you could argue that Naboo is an entirely cool, solid chunk of rock, except for the fact that a hot core is actually necessary to maintain a magnet field around the planet and support life. Considering again the fact that it also makes no sense for the droid army to even land on the other side of the planet from their target, you'd think that if Lucas was really dead-set on them meeting the Gungans and taking a secret underwater craft to get to the city, he'd just have the underwater city be off the coast of Theed or something.

>>64075902
And besides all that science stuff, why would the Gungans have this planet core passage that leads directly to Theed anyway, since they don't exactly seem to get along with the humans on the planet very well? Why would they even want or need that? My only guess is that they wanted to connect with another Gungan settlement on the other side of the planet, but we never see or hear about one. I don't know, this is a film for babies, so maybe it's supposed to appeal to the kid in all of us who thought they'd end up in China if they dug a hole deep enough in the backyard or something.

>>64075920
Goongas

>>64075627
HAMMY's DESPECIALISED EDITION

Merry Christmas

>>64075877

I did but she was a 30 something year old woman who grew up with the originals, had a crush on Luke when she was a kid and just found it all so comfy...

Which I guess is fair enough, I never had the heart to shit on the prequels when it came up in conversation.

>>64075748
Hey reddit, if you were actually paying attention you'd know that the originals are and always have been on DVD. It's a 240p laser disc rip.

>>64073618
And his wife's genius editing.