Now that the dust has settled, is it still possible for Disney to make Finn or Kylo the main character and fix this mess?
>>64064576
i rather see them fix rey honnestly
it wont happen but if i had to chose i would go for a quick fix
Finn was a lot more likeable than Rey.
>>64064576
>>64064659
>>64064745
Rey was fine you fucking autists
Your penis looks so small right now.
>I refer to Palpatine as "Sheev"
>>64064765
>>64064794
>>64064983
Exactly!!!!! io9 is never wrong!
http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275
disney movies tend to have female protagonists so it's unlikely.
>>64064765
i like her alot a stronk women moment didnt bother me but learning to pilot the falcon so well,speaking other languages and using mind tricks were just cheap wanks that she didnt need.she doesnt seems to have flaws other than being really naive but that never seems to be an obstacle.
>>64064576
What are you talking about OP, she's amazing.
it's a fantasy movie about space knights with laser swords, there's nothing wrong with magically powerful characters.
>>64064765
bullshit
>>64065118
>Babby can't into internal consistency.
>>64065017
>>64065143
>Getting this upset over a woman character that isn't completely worthless
>>64064576
but he doesn't need 3po to talk to r2 just look at their interactions on dagobah
>>64065198
>He defends billion dollar Disney movie focus-grouped mass appeal characters on the internet
>He does it for free
>>64065017
if shes a lost knight of ren thats good for me.
>>64064576
They tricked me into thinking Finn was the main character. Maybe he'll get more spotlight in the second movie while Rey trains. If anything she'll be the one teaching Luke a thing or two about the force, just like with Han and the Falcon.
>>64065202
Watch the movie again, he talks directly to R2 when he has the cockpit translation and guesses at what he's saying when they're out of the ship.
>>64064576
http://strawpoll.me/6358780
Hopefully no le facebook meme page takes over like last time.
>>64065287
>He gets irrationally angry when a capable women is portrayed on film
>>64065182
midochlorians and the force nigger. star wars doesn't have to explain shit. your complaint is that she picks up on using the force quickly and is knowledgeable about a variety of stuff. what's "internally inconsistent"?
Luke's like 17 in Star Wars 1
Rey is 23-24
You can learn a lot in 6 years
>>64065118
>it's science-fiction! that means the writing can be shitty if it promotes my politics!
How many times do we have to debunk this argument, Tumblr?
http://www.whiteworld.com/technoland/reviews-techno/reviews2009/TWT-internal-consistency.html
>>64065370
>Starting a thread on 4chan
>Irrationally angry
>>64065425
there's nothing internally inconsistent, a character can be written in star wars that can do backflips off mountains and shoot lighting out it's dick and it wouldn't be internally inconsistent
>whiteworld.com
fuck off retard
>>64065404
She picks up on using the force far quicker than literally anyone in any either Star Wars movie.
Its internally inconsistent because it is not consistent with what is show in either the prequels or the sequels. Why did Yoda have to train Luke at all and why did it take 3 movies for him to git gud if you can pick it all up in an hour or so?
Why did the Jedi even bother training recruits for decades to use the force when an hour long demonstration would suffice?
Why is the mind trick the trait of a Jedi when its actually just something any force-sensitive untrained hick does naturally?
Of course, this will be like water off a duck;s back because you don't understand what internal consistency is and don't care to.
>>64065370
>getting angry at terrible fucking plot
>irrational
>>64065366
Rey apologists getting BTFO.
>>64065537
>She picks up on using the force far quicker than literally anyone in any either Star Wars movie.
so?
not even mentioning the op as fuck jedis in the prequels, one could argue anakin picks up on it as quickly and on his own by being able to control pod racers. and it isn't shown how quickly he picked up on his training between 1 and 2. you're just referring to being able to pick up on specific force powers. even so, how would that make it internally inconsistent? in the OT we've only been introduced to 2 jedis, one sith, and force sensitive luke and leia.
it's not internally inconsistent.
>>64065602
>Rey already winning
/pol/tards BTFO
>>64065719
>Controlling podracers is the same as learning literal Jedi tricks previously only used by those with mastery of the force.
As to how its internally inconsistent, I've already explained. Luke had to be trained by Yoda before he could even pick up the Jedi Mind Trick, and prequel Jedi were literally trained from birth to adulthood, which is complete overkill for what can be picked up in an hour, maybe two if you're really shit.
>>64065802
>Finn neck and neck with a hypothetical fixed Rey, with one measly vote for Rey as she is now.
>>64065954
>Splitting the Rey votes
Nice try senpai
>>64065975
She'd still be neck and neck, but nice conspiracy theories, any more mental gymnastics you want to do?
Also funny how virtually nobody prefers Rey as she was in the movie.
>>64066085
I do and I'm the only one that actually matters :^)
>>64065921
>Luke had to be trained by Yoda before he could even pick up the Jedi Mind Trick
different character, he hadn't experienced it first hand. rey did and picked up on it intuitively. you can't say it's inconsistent because she was just internally different than luke. the force isn't a video game, grind to level 30 to unlock power a, thing.
>complete overkill for what can be picked up in an hour, maybe two if you're really shit.
it was a situational thing, it wasn't like she was studying for it. like an adrenaline rush under stress. maybe the force is better learned that way then studying in a school. still nothing "internally consistent" just say you didn't like the character
>>64066115
>He hadn't experienced it firsthand.
Its a nice bit of fan fiction shown nowhere else that you automatically learn any attack performed on you.
>Maybe the force is better learned that way then studying in a school
So its better to learn the force in an hour-long stressful situation rather than at school, and no one for a thousand generations cared that they were training them for 20 years instead? This is clear internal inconsistency and is the exact kind of bullshit everyone was always rightly mocking the prequels for.
>even though Kylo was hurt this is still bullshit
No it's not.
If anything she's had more physical combat experience than he has.
Kylo has literally no experience dealing with other people trained in the force as adversaries, and the fact that he's torn between light and darkness as opposed to well centered on either side puts him at a major disadvantage.
I'm not going to pretend this movie didn't go too far into PC territory, but having watched it a second time, the fight outcome of the fight is fine and makes sense.
>>64066085
>what is sample size
Rey's character development was rushed af, like many aspects of TFA, but that doesn't make her a "Mary Sue." The reason she was so competent because she spent her whole life fending for herself and learning everything she could about technology/ships/history. Yeah, it could have been shown to us better instead of just told but the reasons why she was so powerful are all there. Also, the reason she learns to use the force so quickly is because she's obviously a Skywalker.or Sheev's granddaughter
You forgot the fact that we knew that Luke was living his life doing nothing of note on a desert planet, while Rey's past is completely unknown at this point. For all we know, she could have had some sort of training when she was a kid.
>>64066241
>prequel logic
Stop.
The prequels are canon in official namesake only, all that school training bullshit is essentially invaled at this point.
The Force has returned to its original depiction of an energy force that surrounds the universe and can be channeled quickly in a matter of moments for a first time user.
That's how it was in the OT, and that's how it is in TFA.
>>64066266
>If anything she's had more physical combat experience than he has.
Literal conjecture.
>Kylo has literally no experience dealing with other people trained in the force as adversaries
So he didn't kill Luke's other students? Even then neither does Rey.
>The fact that he's torn between light and darkness as opposed to well centered on either side puts him at a major disadvantage.
KOTOR isn't canon, and this isn't a videogame.
>>64066241
>a nice bit of fan fiction shown nowhere else that you automatically learn any attack performed on you.
I didn't say that, and that's not exactly what happened, luke had to have things demonstrated to him and he still had problems. he was more conditioned by culture and lived a fairly stable life until being ripped out of it and introduced to magic. lars and beru were actively trying to hide him from the force. rey didn't have those obstructions.
you're just not thinking about the force correctly.
>yoda: the force is all around you, binds you, you have to feel it you must.
it isn't like learning to make a paper plane. the prequels messed with your perception of it. still nothing internally inconsistent. you could argue that rey is more powerful or more intuitive than other jedis but it doesn't break the reality of the movies.
>>64066377
>>64066345
>The prequels are canon in official namesake only
Just stop posting please, I'll name the direct references to the prequels if you really want, but I'd prefer if you just stopped posting.
Anyway, the fact that you have to make preceding episodes non-canon to accommodate TFA's logic has proven that its internally inconsistent.
>>64066287
>You forgot the fact that we knew that Luke was living his life doing nothing of note on a desert planet, while Rey's past is completely unknown at this point. For all we know, she could have had some sort of training when she was a kid.
She has combat experience, we know that for a fact. She probably has more combat experience than Kylo, who essentially has leaned on being the only guy with the force in his line of work up until now. He has zero experience dealing with forceless opponents.
The fact that Finn, a grunt who lost in a swordfight to another grunt, was able to hold his own against Kylo and even score a hit on him pretty much confirms this.
>>64066431
You sure showed me.
>>64066455
>A desert scavenger has more combat experience that Nu-Emperor's main muscle
Wew lad, now thats some mental gymnastics.
What's the logic that because she had a hard life that explains why she's so good at everything? If that was true then all the slaves would be Jedi masters.
![250px-Damage_Control_1[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/6K26uI5.png "250px-Damage_Control_1[1].png")
>>64066529
There is none senpai, its just pic-related.
>>64066510
>Cuckold Ren lets stormtroopers do all the work for him
>He would have combat experience
Sorry your favorite character got his ass beat by a chick
>>64066529
>If that was true then all the slaves would be Jedi masters.
Who is Anakin, Alex?
>>64066455
>She probably has more combat experience than Kylo
Kylo managed to kill all of Luke's next-gen jedi and forced him into hiding, fuck off with this horse shit.
>>64066510
...and was a disapointment to everyone around him, he was kept around because he was force sensitive and had inside information about the rebels.
I didn't get the impression from his character that he saw any serious combat and he definitely never fought another person wielding a lightsaber. during his interactions with enemies he was probably safely guarded by armed units.
>>64066439
There are kids in reality that can pick up playing things like the piano very quickly without any formal training and be amazing at it.
Are they exceedingly rare? Yes.
Could Rey be an exceedingly rare individual when it comes to Force matters? Yes.
Christ, people.
Finn being able to fight Kylo for any period of time is much less believable.
>>64064576
This is me speculating, but when she touched Luke's lightsaber it showed her memories of Luke. I assumed that it imparted some wisdom of the force in her.
>>64066618
>Implying that wasn't Snoke
>>64066611midichlorians
>>64066582
You know its fake right? Like JJ Abrams wrote this shit. Its not real life. So someone having a problem with the main villain losin straight up is a problem with the writing...so saying you're sorry makes no sense. The sarcastic comment works in sports, but not in movie critiques.
>>64065370
>>64065438
using irrational wrong. prove me im wrong in my assessment.
>>64066724
>You know its fake right?
So why you gotta be mad?
snoke seemed pretty happy to hear about another force sensitive person. he was probably tired of dumb fuck ren's shit.
>>64065297
One of them has a paddle, wicked
>>64064576
Im assuming she's either likes daughter or she was a very young pupil of his. Either way she was dropped of on jakku long ago. like the other anon said touching the lightsaber just jogged her memory. thats the only way any of her mary sue shit makes any sense to me
>>64066439
>muh prequels
Not him but they're going out of their way to make them as close to non-canon as possible.
The official title of the movie isn't even "episode 7" and it has been stated that it's only in the opening crawl for continuety sake.
But honestly anon, even if they were not trying to pretend 1-3 don't exist, we'd still have a major issue with the way the force functions.
The way the force functions as a plot device and more specifically effects lightsaber duels is fundamentally different in the OT and PT. The two contradict each other, so TFA had 3 options going forward in regards to the force and saber duels
>A
Use the OT logic, thereby further invalidating the way the force and saber duels work in the PT
>B
Use the PT logic, thereby setting an explanation that the OT duels are not to be taken visually for granted and that what actually happens could not be properly interpreted due to a lack of technology at the time of filming
>C
Find some way to attempt to bridge the two contradictions and make them both work together
Anyone that has seen TFA knows that they went with option A. Saber fights are canonically NOT overly coreagraphed eye candy for the transformers audiance. Period.
>>64066857
*lukes daughter
>>64065017
>[Luke] is using the Force pretty brilliantly by the end of the movie
Er, he finally, in the last, desperate moment, learned to trust his feelings and let the Force guide him to fire the proton torpedoes. He wasn't fending off Force Mind-Probes, using the Mind Trick without ever having seen it done in the first place, or any indication it was possible at all, using Force Pull *better than Kylo Ren does*, and magically acquiring sword fighting skills during a saber duel. Luke struggles to Force Pull at the beginning of Empire in the Wampa cave.
>>64066917
they're different characters, she's more force sensitive, there ya go
>>64066917
>implying Rey isn't a Jedi savant in the same way there are musically talented children
Don't get butthurt that she's basically the Jedi version of Mozart
>>64064576
I see /pol/ gave up on the black guy and now they are focusing on the woman
>>64067082
I want to see their detailed critique of the beaner character
>>64066951
>being more force sensitive means you know that Mind Tricks are possible, know how to do them, and can perform one successfully without having ever seen one performed or any idea that such a thing is possible.
>>64067082
because he wasnt the main character as some feared to be
>>64067117
>you know that Mind Tricks are possible
it was demonstrated to her by ren. did you even watch it?
>know how to do them
she was really sensitive and acted out of duress to save her self like a rush of adrenaline.
you're just not thinking about the force correctly family member.
>>64066377
>kotor will never be canon
>there will never be any more originality in star wars movies
Why live
>>64067082
/pol/ is wringing its hands and shrieking about Black Hermoine and pretending they didn't shitpost endlessly about Boyega's race.
>>64064576
Rey isn't bad once you watch the actual movie. She's obviously Luke's daughter, or at the very least a force sensitive that was hidden away because of her strength.
The force is obviously helping her, hence the bullshit throughout. If this wasn't Star Wars she'd be a Mary Sue, but she's an older Anakin circa Episode 1. It's not bad when you understand her lineage.
>>64067082
the black guy was fine you dumb nigger
>>64067270
Why does /pol/ care about that? It's just a play based on a kid's book. They overreact to the most banal shit. I'm beginning to see why they are hated so much.
>>64067289
It's hard to see her character as much more than a feminist wet dream injection given the context
>>64067326
/pol/ is just stormfront lite and hates any black person for no reason at all
>>64067326
BECAUSE SHE'S BLA-HAA-HAA-HAAAACK
This is the same board that vomited forth all those Boyega-as-ape pics. Did you expect anything less than racism?
>>64066951
>>64066970
That's great for her, i'm glad she can learn Jedi mind tricks and force pull a lightsaber to her without any training, unfortunately it leaves her with a rather flat character "arc". If you even want to call it an arc. There is no tension with her on the screen, there is no character to relate to when they have no plight or hardship for the audience to identify with. You can have every reason for her seemingly amazing flying skills, or her ability to instability be loved by every "good" character she runs into but it still leaves her being a flat, forgettable and unrelatable main protagonist.
How the fuck do they explain her speaking Wookie? That took me out so hard in the theatre.
>>64064576
>Beats up four guys by herself
it's only two and she uses a staff and dirty tricks like biting them, she has lived almost her whole life on a scavenger planet so of course she learned how to defend herself the hard way
>Knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han does
Han is a great pilot but Rey has great general knowledge of mechanics from scavenging shit from all sorts of different vehicles
>First time she flys at all she out maneuvers TIE fighters in a large ship with an awkward cockpit position
wasnt her first time, she said she had flown before just not that specific ship, and she makes mistakes at first like forgetting to put on the shield and scraping the ground with it and she only gets away with Finn's help shooting and because she knows the terrain off by heart
>Instantly skilled at using a lightsaber and wins a fight against Kylo (regardless of his injuries this is still stupid)
it's really not considering it's been established she's been fighting all her life with her staff, is force sensitive and Kylo not only got shot in the stomach by a blaster we've been told twice has an extreme kick to it but also got hit by Finn (no one talks shit about Finn using the saber since no one is sexist against him)
>Is instantly knowledgeable about probing minds, telekinesis, and using Jedi mindtricks
it was really obvious from the mindtrick scene that she already knew about them, you can see her thinking "maybe this one will work", and desu it's also really obvious she was trained by Luke as a kid
>Instantly trusted by the Resistance to go on a mission to find Luke, even though they barely knew her
it was Leia's decision who is force sensitive so she probably believed if was Rey's destiny after everything that happened
>Speaks droid and wookie
had to learn a lot of languages growing up depending on a trading outpos
>Instantly liked and trusted by everyone
she had no friends at the trading outpost all her life and they in fact treat her like shit
>>64066970
Someone still had to teach Mozart to play the piano. Why would you even say something this silly. Every prodigy has a master.
>>64067082
>Some one doesn't like a character
>quick call the /pol/
I didn't care about Finns race, and although his somewhat unprompted heel face turn was odd, I found him to be both relatable and funny. A confused guy just trying to escape, Finn was a good man though a bit misguided. I found him and that pilot fella to be a cool duo and wished to see more of them. Indeed lets face it, plucky Finn would have made a better Jedi.
>>64067571
all this backpedaling
>>64067497
>instantly loved
han reluctantly took finn and rey in because they were convenient in the moment, he didn't instantly love her. boyega just wanted to flirt with her because he was a solider. you're caught up on the training aspect of the force when yoda explicitly states it's not a matter of training. it's a matter of intuition.
the rest is just a matter of personal preference, I didn't have a problem relating to her or the other characters.
>amazing flying skills
you're just trolling now, she wrecks it like 3 times mid flight.
>>64065198
>not completely worthless
>literally 0 flaws
>manages to escape by herself
>manages to beat kylo by herself
>manages to learn how to fly the falcon by herself
>saves BB8 from rando and then fights off a bunch of aliens ambushing her by herself
>managed to fend for herself on an inhospitable planet for years (over a decade?) from a young age by herself
>saves the day when Han Solo is ambushed.... by herself
ya she definitely aint worthless... thats true pal
>>64067185
This post is so dumb. It really ignores the fact that Ren did not do what she did in front of her. Nor was it evident that there was a specific tone she would have to use. She just magically knew all this because Rey X Machina.
>>64065017
>I wrote in my tumblr
Dropped
>>64064576
youtube fan made movie with big budget, fun and entertaining yet does not feel like starwars. also fuck them for letting an actor make them kill off han solo.
>>64067774
>>manages to beat kylo by herself
Seriously? Did you even watch the movie or are you just repeating garbage you've heard?
>>64067771
You really are grasping at straws.
>40 min into movie
>cud use of new crew members
>>64067185
>it was demonstrated to her by ren. did you even watch it?
Ren used the force to explore her mind, not JMT
come on dude can you at least WATCH the film
not to mention that her use of JMT goes against the original trilogy. The original trilogy was sort of like a form of hypnosis with the same limiting rules (cant make someone do something objectionable, just gives them the power of persuasion)
like the stormtrooper is thinking to himself "are these the droids" and Ben is able to be extremely convincing when he tells him they arent
its TOTALLY different to get a storm trooper to leave his gun, open the cell door, and unlock her
that goes beyond being convincing
>>64067844
>muh caster shot
you cant be serious
the film intentionally didnt show Kylo struggling with the caster shot during the fight because they didnt want to take away from Rey's triumph, why do you?
>>64067771
>you're just trolling now, she wrecks it like 3 times mid flight.
she didnt wreck it first of all, she dinged it 3 times (none of which materially changes the outcome of the flight: they escape successfully from the more maneuverable professional pilots)
she could have nose dived it straight into the ground and if that resulted in them travelling thru the planets core out the other side it wouldnt be an argument that she isnt a mary sue
there needs to be some form of consequence for when she fucks up, which there never was in the film
the only mistake she makes, and the only time she ever "fails" is when she throws the dumbest, most plot driven tantrum in a film ive ever seen and runs off to get caught.... so she can beat up kylo with her superior mind powers, then come up with jedi mind tricks all on her own to escape by herself
>>64067881
>>64067961
God Rey haters are the worst
>>64067848
>JMT
it's not a video game just stop
>goes against the original trilogy
(cant make someone do something objectionable, just gives them the power of persuasion)
according to obi wan's stringent jedi conditioning.
them introducing something new doesn't hamper the universe canon of the force being a mysterious binding power in the universe.
I would rather watch a movie about Poe than Finn or Rey, they did a bad job of making me like them and Poe was only on screen for like 20 minutes tops
>>64068018
>it's not a video game just stop
jedi mind tricks is like 16 letters im saving space, we both know what i mean, dont be obtuse
and im just saying that Reys use of the force was obnoxiously done, i mean would it have been so objectionable for Rey to have had some help at ANY point? like Finn knocking out Kylo with a big rock when the fight turns south and hes force choking her or something? or Han and Finn coming in to rescue her when Kylo is talking to Snoke?
she had to do EVERYTHING alone? when Luke did comparatively ABSOLUTELY nothing alone? not even fight sand people?
>>64066266
But it's portrayed terribly. Nothing about the fight makes me think wow he's clearly submitting to his wounds or having a terrible emotional conflict that has him besides himself in this fight. I just see a corny fight scene until the ground conveniently splits open.
>>64068164
Well then you're just a moron
>>64068164
On top of him basically performing the equivalent of flaggelation, there is literally zero indication he had succumbed to his wounds at that point
I agree with this anon
>>64068126
jedi mind trick is literally something coined by video games and other EU canon bullshit. yoda levitating a ship wasn't a power that was previously established in a new hope. palpatine shooting lightning wasn't established in the previous films etc. the force as explained in the OT is left very open to interpretation and mystery.
>why couldn't Finn have knocked out kylo with a rock or something?
sounds dumb to me.
>why isn't she just like luke
because then she would be just like luke.
I think we're done.
>>64068046
I didn't like Rey at all. She was surly and constantly pulling the "durr I don't need help, I'm a strong womyn" card and one-upping everyone around her. It's fucking annoying. The ending fight was the icing on the cake.
If you're gonna throw your Mary Sue into my series at least make her likeable you agenda driven cunts.
>>64068236
1. Yoda is using the force, previously established to be capable of levitation. hes using it to a degree we haven't seen which is in line with his ability as a jedi master
2. palpatine using force lightning is fine, he is quite literally THE sith master, hes allowed to use the force in new and creative ways, REY BARELY KNOWS WHAT THE FORCE IS and shes capable of not only forcing Kylo Ren out of her mind and then inserting herself into his, but knowing how to use the force to deceive (not just deceive, but mentally control)
i didnt ask why she isnt like Luke, im saying her level of success is unheard of in any star wars (and you would be hard pressed to find one character more self-sufficient than her in any decent film barring the ones that are intentionally campy!)
>>64064576
>>64068454
>which is in line with his ability as a jedi master
which doesn't really have any meaning and is left to personal speculation
>THE sith master
doesn't really mean anything and is left to personal speculation
>REY BARELY KNOWS WHAT THE FORCE IS
it's hinted at with the flashback that she has some connection to luke and the force
>i didnt ask why she isnt like Luke, im saying her level of success is unheard of in any star wars
a new hope had dissapearing force ghost obi wan that entered luke's brain and gave him force powers that allowed him to destroy a space station.
it's 30 years later so they have to ramp up the stakes to make it more exciting.
btw are you max landis?
>>64068492
>/pol/faggot posting images of his own posts
is there anything more cancerous than this? it's like i've entered a cancer nexus and im faced with the cancer at the heart of all cancer
kill yourself my man
really
i mean it
>>64068582
ok i assume you dont want to talk about the film because you seem to be intentionally stonewalling for no reason, thats cool
oh and you also failed to address that Rey is the most self sufficient movie protagonist in ANY movie, not just star wars
i guess JJ is just really pushing boundaries huh
>>64068870
>most self sufficient movie protagonist in ANY movie
Fuck that, did you see Sandra Bullock single handedly escape space last year? That shit was crazy.
>>64068236
Yeah you're done you've demonstrated nothing but your willingness to accept poor characterization and poorly written contrivances for the sake of defending the most boring character since the prequels. You've dismissed concrete criticisms by citing plot holes from a series of movies that have since had a lot of substantative material added that contradicts your points. Rey's abilities are a clear break from anything that was indicated before and using "the force" to explain away such blatant and hamfisted plot conveniences does nothing but prove how bad this movie is.
>>64068870
>most self sufficient character in cinema
tom hank's character in cast away was pretty self sufficient. desu senpai
you're saying you have a problem with her god powers when tons of movies have characters like that. the problem seems to be that she didnt earn it but it's clearly hinted at that she has a past with luke, idk what else to say.
her character is inherently self sufficient since she is a scavanger but that doesn't necessarily make her bad.
a film doesn't have to follow a specific formula about the character going through the obvious struggles of choice and overcoming.
see: only god forgives.
>>64069009
>that have since had a lot of substantative material added
oh the bitchers are EU fags. yeah I am done.
>>64068582
>>64068925
Which doesn't really have any meaning and is left to speculation. Sums up your opinion right there m8. Yes it does have meaning how can you be so stubborn after all of the evidence that has constantly been thrown at you and continiously counter with just "anythin cand heppin" no it literally can't, there are rules to this shit.
>>64066115
Wait, when did Rey get mind tricked? Luke saw Obi-Wan mind trick someone in New Hope.
>>64069237
he didn't see anyone get forced choked but he did that in ROTS
hurr logical inconsistency
>>64066283
She didn't believe in the Force prior to TFA. This was well established in the movie, unlike the idea that she had to be better than everyone at everything because she was a scavenger (I guess Jawas are the SW master race?). She also learns to use the Force FASTER THAN ANAKIN AND LUKE, one of whom is literally the physical manifestation of the Force.
>>64069137
the OT force is just shown to be any sort of magicky type shit they could throw on screen. stopping laser blasts, levitating shit, reading minds etc.
they were constrained as what they could show off because of the technology at the time and budget.
guise, p-please stahp.
you're being mean guise.
guise?
http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275
>>64064576
Kylo is pretty obviously going to be redeemed.
As for Rey, she's going dark side baby.
Mace Windu: The boy has exceptional skills.
Obi-Wan: But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well arrogant.
Yoda: Yes. Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive.
Also two minor, minor nitpicks is she knows about something added to the Falcon while Han didn't have it and it's not the first time she's ever flown.
>>64066715
Unlike Rey's prior Force training, which occurs only in the imagination of the viewer, there's an actual scene in TFA showing Ren standing in a field with his Knights surrounded by dead people, and other people in TFA talk about how Ren killed all the new Jedi.
>>64069390
>http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275
>Rey is basically this movie’s answer to Luke Skywalker. Luke touches a lightsaber for the first time about 45 minutes into A New Hope, and is using the Force pretty brilliantly by the end of the movie.
>>64049168
You're entire idea is based off of it's not something she can't do. However Star Wars makes a point of saying no just being force sensitive is far from enough. Indeed to even do what Luke, prophecized to be one of the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy, does so he requires training and guidance. The story makes a point of this in every movie save this one so yes wven in just the OT I'm right. The other anon is right you are stonewalling. You don't give a damn about anyone else's opinion. You just think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a bitcher (bitcher really).
>>64069275
That happened after a three-year time skip, during which he clearly became much more proficient in the force - he built a new lightsaber, mind tricks Bib Fortuba, etc. But also, Chewie tells Han that Luke is a Jedi Knight now; obviously we can't understand that, but Han's exasperated reply mirrors our own - the last time Han saw anyone was the same time we did; at the end of Empire, but clearly things have changed. None of this magical ability-gaining happened during a two-hour timespan.
>>64069327
No it is not. Stop saying this. It is blatantly false. >>64069390
>>64069275
What the heck are you talking about? Who didn't see anyone force choked? Also, force choking is just applying TK to someone's neck. Ren wasn't planting suggestions in Rey's mind, Ren was literally trying to rip memories out of her head.
Didn't she get rendered unconscious and captured by the biggest pussy in the universe, though? Doesn't that fuck with her score?
>>64069647
He doesn't know what he's talking about he's been blinded bt the power of the cuck side.
>>64064576
All true but so what you fucking faggot its a kids film
>>64069390
>Luke: So tell me about your force sensitivity. Do you have improved reflexes?
>Rey: Yes, do. i can fly ships like an ace the first time I sit in the pilot seat.
>Luke: Good, good. Do you trust your instincts?
>Rey: That's how I survived all these years.
>Luke: Do you meditate on the Force?
>Rey: I've heard about that, but I've never tried it.
>Luke: Without calm meditation, you cannot use the powers of the Force, such as mind tricks and force pulls.
>Rey: I can already do those things easily!
>Luke: ... What was your emotional state when you did them?
>Rey: Usually I was angry. Sometimes I did the more impressive powers against someone I hate.
>Luke: ... Yoda, you didn't know how good you had it.
How would they react?
>>64069724
I want you to think hard about whi Kylo is and what he's capable of
>kills off the other Jedi
>member of the knights of Ren
>has advanced force stasis abilities
>accute enough awareness to stop a shot from a sniper without ever having any indication that he was going to be shot.
>the blood of the most powerful force users in the Galaxy running through his veins.
His failure against Rey AND Finn does nothing but blow minds as one of the greatest jobbings of our time.
>>64069767
Just more reasons to hate this film I suppose.
>>64067881
It's the other way around, if anything.
They had Kylo punching his wound like a moron so the idiot audience would know "OKAY HE'S INJURED"
In the end, I thought him pounding his wound was a neat taunt, but they go out of their way to show the blood splatter on the snow.
Did you even watch the movie?
>>64068236
>jedi mind trick is literally something coined by video games and other EU canon bullshit
Jabba the Hutt LITERALLY calls it a jedi mind trick in RotJ you waste of skin.
Get fucked, nerd.
>>64067881
Theres a whole 2 and a half second shot of Ben Ren bleeding all over his boots bro.
>>64068492
I don't get what this image is trying to prove.
>>64068046
Poe's a likeable actor. That dudes got charisma for days
>>64068004
The truth hurts, doesn't it? Accept the fact that she's a Mary Sue and you'll feel better.
>>64064576
I am hoping the next movie shines a spotlight on her flaws instead of kissing her ass again. If she is going to spend the movie training with Luke, it might be a good chance to show how vulnerable she is and harp more on her insecurities and what not.
Or she can do crazy backflips on her first day of training and Luke can be all impressed and say her training is complete within a week.
>>64068164
You cant deny the acting quality of big ears Ben. If you didn't feel it when he solo'd Solo than you're just biased.
>>64069902
He could murder a planet of space marines but that wouldn't stop him from being an emo kid who cries to his grandpa's skull for more dark power.
Also, maybe if he wasn't so pleasd with killing his daddy he would have watched out for the fucking wookie with a bowcaster.
Ben is the personification of the prequels: angsty, edgy, all style with nothing to back it up. That's why he makes a good bad guy.
>>64070099
those pics are sick
post them to mega or something
>>64064576
Speaking of
>Finn or Kylo
I missed the film's allotted PG-13 f-bomb somehow. I'm assuming it was one of these two, maybe Kylo more likely? So who dropped the sizzler, and when exactly?
I will pay 100 internets to anyone who can explain the continuity in Fringe
Also you can now use a transporter to go straight from Earth to the Klingon homeworld, no ships or warp drives required.
Also there is now a cure for death itself. Let me repeat......THERE IS NOW A MEDICAL SHOT THAT CURES DEATH.
Now anyone off the street can use a light saber effectively. Also one can now use mid to high level force abilities, no training required.
Jar Jar has a consistent track record of either handwaving or outright contradicting internal continuity. ...dude is a hack.
>>64070152
2 uses of hell and 1 use of damn. That's all they did language wise.
>>64064576
>Rey was the main Character
I'm retarded, the whole time I thought Finn was the main character.
>>64070115
So dumb. Sure I mean like whatever but you know the whole point is that the man's deadly, and far deadlier than her or Finn and either shouldn't have had any way of dealing with him aside from running away.
The anons here are correct. Along with all of the valid reasons they've already given that Rey is a Mary Sue, there is also the following:
She's the new Han Solo. She's a pilot and gets the Falcon and Chewie.
She's the new Luke Skywalker. She's the protagonist that learns the ways of the force and fights the evil sith lords.
She's the new Leia. A strong independant woman who's in charge.
What's the point in even having any other characters when she makes them all redundant?
>>64070115
If you had actually watched the movie you woud have seen that in no way did killing his pops make him feel better. The best way to describe his expressions (which were on screen for a long time) was immediate regret and a touch of shock.
>>64070290
so much this.
They should just cancel the trilogy and start making stand alone movies. Like an Obi-Wan movie or a movie with Finn and Chewie teaming up and going on wacky adventures.
>xD
>>64070290
That's a lot of speculation. No matter how you feel now, remember we still have another 2 movies to go. I hardly think they're going to play the same note the whole way through.
>>64064576
On this list, the whole "instantly liked and trusted by everyone" thing can pretty obviously be attributed to her being an attractive female.
I don't say that as a knock against feminism or to make it a gender issue, but come on you guys, of course a hot girl is going to have an easier time making friends and getting people to like her than a farm boy would.
>>64070249
I was just being facetious. It is kind of interesting to me though that in this one and in Ep. IV there's profanity that's religious and, one would think, specific to a Christian setting. Probably just an oversight.
>>64070290
This is the best argument I've seen. I didn't buy it until you laid it out like that.
Finn should've been the Jedi. It would've been nice if someone that started out as a Stormtrooper ended up being a Jedi knight, that would've been one great arc
>>64070352
Ewan is best Wan. A Kenobi film would be the greatest shit ever. He was the diamond sitting atop the turds that were the prequels.
>>64070285
>Like whatever
Maybe if he was focused and using his force powers to fight instead of throwing another temper tantrum and swinging his lightsaber like a little boy, he might have faired better.
>>64064576
my biggest issue with her is that she's a fucking mouth breather
walked around the whole movie like she was in shock
>>64070308
I'd say that'd accurate. Still didn't do much for his perception.
>>64070152
Finn said damn and hell once or twice. No fucks though.
>>64070497
The perception is more related to the character flaws they built up. He doesn't perform well under pressure. ex. Him toying with finn and slapping his shit at the first sign of him making headway in the fight.
With Rey she does have martial skill and personal involvement. Hell he tried to recruit her.
He was compromised by his lack of commitment to killing her. His heads so far out of the game at that point I don't see the mystery, it was a borderline cry for help.
>>64069957
>pounding the wound
He was psyching himself. He was hitting it to cause himself more pain - so that he could control it, and perhaps so that when he stopped hitting it it would seem to hurt less.
Alternately, it could give him focus - focus on the pain, the rage, the anger, the now; as opposed to the fear, the regret, the confusion, the grief of what he'd just done to Han.
>>64070701
Dude got in over his head, pure and simple. He'd been shot, he had just fought Finn and suddenly he finds himsrlf fighting someone with a strong connection to the force. For all intents and purposes Rey hacked into his mind and reverse-engineered force powers based on what she saw him do. I'm not sure, in his emotionally-compromised state, Ben could have won even if his aim was to kill.
And it clearly was by that point.
Every protagonist in every film in the franchise has at least some kind of flaw.
>Luke: has potential but constantly gets his ass kick left and right six ways to sunday all the way through the end of Return of the Jedi
>Han Solo has zero force powers, survives on his wits, his ship and a good blaster. Also has zero chance when going head to head against a real force user.
>Obi Wan. Gets killed in the first true fight we see. When he is younger he gets KO'd multiple times and is second best at everything when compared to his own apprentice and had to be saved by Anakin at least nine times by his own account.
>Anakin: The most skilled fighter, the most skilled pilot, is the strongest with the force. Saves his own master and everyone else multiple times. Is also a future force choking, baby killing, planet destroying mass murder.
Rey: Is the best fighter, is the best pilot, is the strongest with the force......that's it.
She is a shitty character. The are going to have to really fuck her shit up in the next installment if they are going to have any hope of salvaging her. But they won't because of MUH STRONK WOMYN and in 2015/2016 it is now practically illegal to have a female character show weakness onscreen.
>>64070948
>Rey: Has a ton of raw force potential and a sharp mind but lacks the proper training, causing her to be immobilized and captured when faced with a skilled and focused force user.
>>64071033
(before she promptly defeats his force mind trick and escapes using the force until later when she defeats him with the force because she is now great at the force because uh just because)
>>64071033
>Finn goes to rescue her.
>She rescues herself instead.
>>64070362
There is nothing speculative about it. Everything I just argued was already established in this movie, and you would have to be willfully making yourself blind if you think otherwise.
Is Rey a Mary Sue? Partly and no more than countless other characters in star wars and outside it.
She is just Luke, Han and Leia written as one character.
Finn and Poe strike me as sidekicks. They may as well be droids.
Rey herself is no more OP than Iron Man.
![CoverShot[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/15KKqrr.jpg "CoverShot[1].jpg")
I like Rey simply because movie Star Wars have always lacked female Jedis and those are sexy as fuck
I hope Rey becomes somewhat like Bastilla, given that her main weapon is a staff
>>64071159
>no more than countless other characters in star wars
see >>64070948
>Anakin: The most skilled fighter, the most skilled pilot, is the strongest with the force. Saves his own master and everyone else multiple times. Is also a future force choking, baby killing, planet destroying mass murderer
They should have just made Poe the third person in the team. He could have flew the Falcon and been the tech guy as well as the dude that can talk to the droids.
>>64071159
>no more OP than Iron Man.
Captian America literally begged Tony Stark to put on his suit so it would be a fair fight. Otherwise Cap could have snapped his neck with one hand.
But yeah, Iron Man is starting to become OP and a shitty character. Age of Ultron did kind of suck you know...
>>64071209
The girl they cast is far from "sexy as fuck"
>>64071282
The early rumors posited that Poe would end up with the Falcon, which would have gone a long way towards mitigating all of the criticism against Rey.
>>64071327
Bullshit
A womans sexyness is all about the hair, makeup and dressup
Her weird face is the charm
>>64071115
>>64071122
You mean she overcame an obstacle and defeated an opponent? How dare she do that! Characters aren't supposed to get stronger, they must remain static for all time!Seriously gang, I get that Rey's force powers were bizarrely rushed but you can't keep throwing mary sue at every fucking character. It just looses meaning after a while. I mean if we're looking for flaws how about the fact that she's an emotionally stunted loner who can't move on with her life? Or that she is naive and easily believes whatever she's told? Hell, she can't use a fucking blaster the first time she tries to shoot someone.
>>64071356
Finn should have been piloting the Falcon.
>>64071323
iron man isn't tony stark
iron man is the suit and the suit is practically invincible from day one
same with all marvel film characters of that the new universe from which disney learned a lot
>>64071327
>Fat neckbeard on 4chan says attractive actress isn't sexy
What a fucking shock.
I think equal treatment would have helped this movie too. There's nothing wrong with showing a stronk womyn alongside an equally competent man. Especially when you have a proven fanbase that's 75% guys.
>>64071393
Right, and then literally the second time she pulls the trigger she bullseye's every one of her damn shots. Try again.
>>64071397
>>64071356
its easier for kids to follow a story with one hero and its easier to make. a la thor in thor, captain america in captain america etc
>>64071393
When she got captured I know there was NO WAY that they were going to let her get rescued and I was right.
After the Black Widow shitstorm I was absolutely positive they would not let her have to be rescued. ....it's shit writing by your own account because she didn't have to overcome anything. She did whatever she wanted whenever she wanted instantly, no overcoming required.
>>64069767
Luke would be 0-2 in training jedi
>>64071460
>Ignore other suggestions and casually dismiss easiest assertion of flaw with "but she got better so it doesn't count!"
Well meme'd friend!
>>64071404
>iron man isn't tony stark
>>64071524
So you consider sneaking out of a heavily-guarded enemy installation to be a simple task? She didn't even get to a ship before Finn and Han showed up.
>they still think Luke is the MC Rey is taking after
>they fell for the OT bait
>>64065287
>implying you're doing anything better by hating on it
>>64064576
Someone mentioned it here, but I agree that the next movie the writers are probably going to make Rey less competent which will undoubtedly piss off feminists and /tv/.
What are the chances of this guy coming back in some capacity?
>>64072429
If anything Rey's problem will be that she's way too fucking strong and could be the next Anakin. Which honestly is a better commentary on feminism than making her weaker.
>>64072094
And that guy will probably star in a GG Allin biopic
>>64072469
For me that's one of the big questions I have. Though to be fair she only beat Kylo Ren when he was severely injured, tired from a initial fight and emotionally distraught.
I suspect having his other Knights of Ren will put the odds in his favor. Of course having Rey sword fight 5 knights and Kylo Ren on her own may strengthen that hyper competent issue with her.
Though I suspect when they fight the knights Luke will probably be with them to help.
>>64072464
hes dead idiot
>>64072570
Where's the death certificate?
>>64072464
He's assumably part of a unit so highly likely we'll see 'him' again
>>64064576
It's a shit copycat movie all around. The praise for this plagerisium of a movie is getting on my Fucking nerves.
EPISODE III>EPISODE VII
>>64072596
between these dubs
>>64072541
>mfw Anakin's Force ghost in VIII is played by Lloyd and not Christensen
>>64072789
Off by one, anon. What a shame.
>>64068004
The autismal MRA types. Just ignore them, it's confrontation they want.
>>64064576
>Finn
he ded and is boring anyway
>Kylo
whiny autistic faggot with mommy and daddy issues should not be leading the franchise
Star Wars is broken beyond repair.
>>64073012
>valid criticism of a shit character = le MRA
You should really get your autism checked out anon.
>>64066283
>Rey's character development was rushed af, like many aspects of TFA, but that doesn't make her a "Mary Sue."
This.
DESU, the plot of the movie is excellent, has more potential than any other Star Wars movie (caveat: deliberately bold claim, been years since I've watched another one, chill) except maybe Episode V, but it's pretty systematically undermined by the movie telling it in a rush between pew pew scenes.
More time should've been spent on Rey and Finn deciding to get involved. Rey should've happened at Maz's, in longer, more realistic, less ~~wise old person being emphatic~~ conversations and then her just getting kidnapped. Finn should've happened at some other point, IDK when, of course because he gets forced by Rey being kidnapped.
More time should've been spent exploring the relationship between the New Republic and the Resistance. It's completely unclear why the Resistance is even a thing or a "resistance" in the movie, it's only clarified in secondary materials.
More time should've been spent on the rivalry between Kylo Ren and Hux. At this point, it's like, "lol they both want Snoke's favor and have different personalities, let's watch them glare at each other."
Finally, and I think maybe dramatically most importantly, more time should've been spent on Kylo's relationship with Snoke. It's so important to the movie and so so thin, and a waste of probably the two best actors on screen.
It wouldn't be exactly right, but imagine for a second Tarantino was given this plot and told to script and direct it. Wouldn't that have been so much better?
>>64074212
Tarantino is a hack who hasn't made a good film since Pulp Fiction, and it's only "good"
>>64074316
Lol no.
