Misunderstood genius or talentless hack?
A creative goldmine with suspect directing ability
Neither
He's talentless but he doesn't pretend to be have talent, ergo he isn't a hack
talentless genius
misunderstood hack
misunderstood hack
A genius who doesn't know why he's a genius
>>64027877
This.
He's not really a genius, but he's also not a hack. Misunderstood, yes. Talentless, yes. But he's creative, and when assisted by more talented individuals who can better express his ideas, we get great things (like the OT or the first three Indiana Jones movies).
I don't hate the guy. But I do think he needs people to tell him when something just isn't good.
>>64027846
Genius for sure. THX1138 is in my opinion the best dystopic representation of the future ever put to fiction, in terms of how it shows the effects of society on the individual and how it's applicable to where we're heading now. That alone tells me he's got some sharp thoughts in his head.
And Industrial Light & Magic have been pushing special effects to new places right from the start. Even between A New Hope and Return of the Jedi the improvements in effects are amazing if you know what to look for. The scale of the space battles is fucking huge in Jedi compared to New Hope.
And he really deserves more credit for the non-Star Wars stuff too. Pretty much anything he's had a hand in has been great in some way, even if you hate the prequels you have to admit that there was some cutting edge stuff there that's still impressive today. The podrace in The Phantom Menace is still in my opinion one of the best effects driven action sequences to come out of Hollywood.
>>64029348
THX1138 is in my opinion 1984
>>64027846
An autist that needs a group of people helping him so he can be even remotely useful, but when he's good he's great. Alone he's just autistic though.
>>64027846
Great ideas man, terrible everything else.
>>64027846
Talentless genius.
>>64029516
I think they're different kinds of futures. 1984 is all about fascism being pushed to the ultimate extreme, which was what Orwell thought of when he saw Stalin and fascism in Europe. THX1138 is a different beast entirely.
The government in 1984 is hated by its subjects and survives through ruthless oppression and constant indoctrination which only really serves to keep brutal resentment buried just under the surface, while the leaders in THX1138 aim to numb their subjects to the point where they can't feel anything at all, presumably with the intention of perpetuating society for its own sake.
They're opposite extremes, 1984 is about exercising and abusing power for powers sake while THX saving humanity at the cost of stifling everything that makes us human, I think they're telling very different stories. Orwell wanted us to fear people who want to hold the whip over us, while Lucas wants us to stay sharp, or else one day they won't even need whips.
Too many words, but I feel like I got there.
Citizen Kane.
>>64027846
Misunderstood Hack
A genius who has singlehandedly pushed film technology forward by decades and has a knack for creating interesting, evocative shots. The opening shot of A New Hope is a perfect example.
He is also autistic as fuck and has no interest or clue how to deal with actors, stories, or people, which he freely admits.
"Coppola was my mentor and taught me how to deal with actors, I've always been more on the technical side"
If the Ring Theory is correct, and I am now convinced that it is, he's turned the first 6 Star Wars movies into the greatest technical achievement anyone's done in film and possibly in narrative arts, and the only flaw is that he wasn't good enough to do everything he had in mind for the saga while producing 3 good stories.
Also I suspect after a few years of Disney's Star Wars, the prequels are going to look pretty good.
He's the Vince Russo of the film world
>>64029773
>after a few years of Disney's Star Wars, the prequels are going to look pretty good
I've always defended the prequels so this is going to piss me off to no end. Fucking bandwagoning faggots who think they're critics because they can parrot youtube reviewers are going to be in my fucking ear over this after Episode IX I fucking know it.
He's creative, but he needs other people to keep him in check. If not, he can really fuck shit up familia.
Lucas is pretty good in my books.
He told studios to go fuck themselves and he produced sequels on his own dime.
He got to make the movies he wanted to make, even if they aren't that great.
He has a great vision but he isn't a good director and he never wanted to be a director, he just wanted to see the kinds of films that weren't being made.
>>64029843
If you haven't read www.starwarsringtheory.com please do. It's amazing that the plots for those movies were even comprehensible.
Since I just rewatched the OT to prepare for the new flick, I did notice that there is some truly horrible dialogue, especially in Jedi, which is basically saved by Harrison Ford. It's too bad he didn't cast someone with that sort of charisma for Anakin, but there's that autism again
>>64027846
talented genius
A genius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7ZW1gtCljs
>>64027846
Genius Hack
>>64029988
It's even more than that, the story beats rhyme. But backwards.
Brilliant producer, weak writer, terrible director.
Holy fuck, he used to be pretty fucking handsome didn't he?
>>64027846
both?
>>64028125
/thread
He has a great creative output, it's just very unfocused, he needs people around him that dare to question his ideas.
>>64029956
>www.starwarsringtheory.com
NOW THIS, IS POETRY
Really though, I just finished the first page and plan to finish it. It's interesting.
somebody please explain to me how its possible to not realize that the prequels are absolute dreck that took every smart creative decision about the OT and whiped their asses with them? from the melodrama, to the choreography, the atrocious dialogue, performances, cgi and the sterile world that was presented, i mean goddamn. force awakens may have a rehashed plot and narrative that isnt fleshed out, but everything else about it is well done or at least superior to the prequels. are people just being contrarian, or is it racism/sexism, or do you people genuinely believe the prequels are quality movies? i just watched this video of nostalgia critic coming up with some reasons to defend the prequels but his points are so easily batted down i have to believe his fondness for them must literally be based in nostalgia. someone explain it to me. i mean i grew up when the prequels came out and even 11 year old me could tell that phantom menace was a hot turd
fuck not even to mention shit like yoda and palpatine being flying trapeze lightsaber users when they were both above them in the OT. every scene being so "dense" or cluttered to fuck with indecipherable shit. people say the prequels had better world building and sense of scale than TFA but all the world building in the prequels is giant cgi landscapes and cartoon towns packed with cartoon creatures. you never learn anything about the various worlds. theyre just little hyperactive shots to establish the setting, but they fail because they feel so fake. maul was a terrible villain with no characterizarion beyond a double lightsaber and horns poorly glued to his head. and fuck, why does almost every character in the prequels have a lightsaber duel? it kills the suspense of them completely when they happen every few minutes
idiot savant idea factory who has no capacity for discerning decent ideas from total idiocy
>indiana jones and the invasion of the giant ants
>>64030719
It's mind-blowing stuff.
The immensity of the genius involved is offset only by his total disregard for all the stuff that makes movies good, like getting good performances out of properly-cast actors. He didn't give a fuck about that, he just wanted to make his movies into a 6-part Swiss clock, a Norse saga in moving pictures.
I mean, writing a ring-cycle epic is fucking hard. Doing that, while simultaneously also doing it with moving pictures, is a technical achievement that I don't think will be touched in decades.
If only he hadn't been a total autist about all the pesky things like acting and chemistry and relatable characters
>>64030825
>melodrama
What's this mean?
>choreography
Fights are great in the prequels. Not everyone's a fan of how elaborate they are but I think that they still work great. Don't give me that meme-criticism of how Luke and Vader in the Death Star had emotion while the prequels are goofy lightstick tricks, the fight between Obi-Wan and Maul in The Phantom Menace has plenty more than flashy tricks going on. And I liked how they had fights that were more than just angry death battles. Obi-Wan's fight with Grievous had comedic elements in it that I appreciate every time I see it. The way that Grievous does crazy stuff with his arms and Obi-Wan kills him with a gun are interesting, and Ewan McGregor looks like he's having fun with it, which makes for an interesting change, and really makes what happens after hit harder in my opinion.
>atrocious dialogue
>performances
I can't stand this criticism directed at anything. Actors giving "realistic" performances isn't the be all, end all of cinema, and 19/20 big movies don't even look realistic, it's just a trick. Movies made today will seem just as dated and odd as ones made in the 1930's one day.
Have you never seen a David Lynch movie? Can't an "unrealistic" performance ever do the job?
>cgi
I personally think that it's fine. Sure, you can tell that it's cgi fairly often, but that's not a gamebreaker. I don't think it ever looks particularly cheap or stupid and it allows filmmakers to pull of things to a scale that simply wouldn't work done practically.
>sterile world
Elaborate.
>cluttered to fuck with indecipherable shit
Where is this ever really a problem? I could understand it for the opening space-battle in Revenge of the Sith, but it's a battle. I don't think it's supposed to seem clear and aesthetically pleasing. Battles tend to be indecipherable chaos if they're particularly big.
>You never learn anything about the various worlds
Tell me about Hoth and Yavin IV.
A man with incredible ideas but without the talent to execute said ideas correctly.
If you ask me, what we should do is lock him in some random basement in the middle o the desert, and every time some director wants a film idea they just ask Lucas for one, and the director handles everything else from there.
He's not a hack at all.
Most creative people only have so many worthwhile stories/ideas in them. That isn't a bad thing. He made some of the greatest film franchises in history. He's a genius, but that doesn't mean everything he makes is pure gold.
>>64030951
To complement your contribution, I'll leave here what I think is the best critical analysis of the prequels I've ever read:
http://www.ferdyonfilms.com/2015/star-wars-episode-one-the-phantom-menace-1999-episode-two-attack-of-the-clones-2002-episode-three-revenge-of-the-sith-2005/26568/
He truly is an immensely creative person, but as has been said, he overlooked a lot of things when it comes to managing his actors.
It's not apologetic nor pretentious to say a lot of people don't truly get the prequels; when analyzed by people who actually apreciate cinema they're truly respectable pieces of work.
>>64031504
>without the talent to execute said ideas correctly
Would you call THX1138 incompetently executed?
>>64030825
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMGxqvg4K74
>>64027846
He is a genius, and that is not to say he is perfect but he has a capacity that very few people do and that coupled with making a few right decisions at right moment set him apart. I think giving his universe to a factory like Disney will save his legacy.
>>64031780
No, but I wouldn't call the original trilogy incompetent either.
I have no doubt that George wanted to throw in some nonsensical bullshit, but since it was still early in Lucas' career he was probably told, by either the producer or the other writer, to tone his shit down.
He only started producing shit when he started getting totalitarian control over every aspect of the film he was making, when nobody would tell him to fuck off with his stupid ideas. People stopped doing that because his ego turned him into a power-hungry madman.
>>64030825
Shut up, reddit.
The prequels are comfy as fuck. Fun storytelling, awesome worlds, great characters, awesome action, and meaningful moments. True Star Wars.
I noticed that before 2009, a lot of people liked the prequels. Many were disappointed, but few outright hated them, and like I said, A LOT of people were willing to say they liked them. A thread like this couldn't exist today:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.72432-Am-I-the-only-SW-prequels-fan
Ever since Plinky the fat fuck made his reviews, Redditors have constantly linked to them, as if "Another guy said these movies suck so they suck!!!1111 I can't form my own opinions lol11!" He nitpicks the movies so much, his fans don't realize that you can nitpick ANY good movie to that level and it'll look bad.
>>64031931
This sounds less like a matter of talent and more one of you disagreeing with the content of a handful of his creations.
>>64027846
I'll let you decide.
>>64031233
>melodrama
>What's this mean?
sappy dialogue and plot points delivered woodenly and awkwardly meant to elicit emotion. ii and iii and rife with that shit. also the "serious" story of space politics about a conflict thats never interesting let alone being engaging in cspan esque scenes full of elderly characters or meaningless characters debating strategy that never affects anything in the movie. tfa goes in the opposite direction, giving no time to the overarching confloct or the strategy and politics of the war because they dont matter. the story is a heroes journey. though i think the premise should have been a little more fleshed out so we had a clearer understanding of the actors in the war and their situations.
>choreography
its a matter of opinion but i thought the over choreographed super stylized depiction of duels made them less weighty, less visceral and less tense. seeing desperation and fear in a fight is emotionally enthralling to me. obi wan and anakin swinging on ropes and bouncing around lava rocks for half an hour drained all emotion and tension. it was very unrealistic and cartooney which stripped it of the emotional weight the final battle needed. also war scenes were cluttered and indecipherable. you either cant tell whats happening, or the cgi and greenscreening maked it so cartooney i didnt care. the clutter and bad cgi removed the tension and excitement for me
>performance
i didnt say they had to be realistic. palpatine acts ridiculous much of the time but his charm and presence make up for the poor dialogue. most of the other actors couldnt accomplish that. and no matter how charming, main characters sprouting nothing but autistic dialogue for 3 movies is problem
>cgi
its almost unanimously considered terrible even for its time. there are plenty of memes and youtube clips showcasing the cartooney cgi and landscapes and there seems to be a general consensus. but its subjective
1/2
>>64032052
To be fair, if Lucas had to copy SOMETHING it should be something as incredibly based as the Dinotopia books.
>>64031233
>>64032082
>sterile world
cartooney landcapes and creatures that make the world feel not real and not lived in. i thought the practical sets fixed this in tfa. especially things like tanakas pub.
the characters give wooden performances with autistic dialogue. it strips any emotion you should feel for the characters and their situation. and the inability to mesh drams with comedy makes it feel tonally inconsistent and again hurts the believability of the world. also it was all together more childish and aimed towards a younger audience which removed the grittiness needed to make a believable world
>>You never learn anything about the various worlds
you dont. i only mentioned it becsuse itd used as a jab against tfa and for the prequels. but the prequels fail at worldbuilding while tfa sidesteps it alltogether.
>indecipherable clutter
many action scenes seemed to hyperactive with a bunch of cartooney things happening along the way to remove the weight of the scene. that opening space battle, the lizard shit, the arena fight. it felt like they did a poor job making action scenes with a lot happening, instead of a smaller scale setpiece that could have been meticulously crafted. it almost felt like the action scenes had no direction at all, and were just a mashup of random things that "looked cool"
i dont care for your shitty opinions but ill defend to the death your right to spew them on a thai karaoke forum
>>64031933
this pasta is already stale
>>64031773
I've been talking about that Sand exchange for so long and everyone keeps making fun of it.
It's supposed to be cheesy and awkward. Anakin is trying to open up about his childhood and traumatic past while making it seems like an incredibly random observation. "Sand gets in everywhere", his childhood memories still make their way into all his actions and thoughts; this only serves to illustrate his major flaw and struggle throughout the saga, which is dealing with attachments and letting things go.
This might seem like overanalyzing, but it's pretty clearly a deliberste move to me when we look at all the themes and messages being played with in the Prequels.
The delivery was flawed, sure, but the meaning is subtle yet present.
Misunderstood hack
>>64031868
for the first 2/3 i literally couldnt tell if that was from the clone wars cg cartoon or not
>>64032082
>>64032136
So many strawmen I won't even bother green texting and listing your points.
I must comment on that last one though: The action scenes in the Prequel are masterfuly sequenced. They are above and beyond shit we see TODAY in theaters.
The pod race, the duels, the war scenes, they're all shot and edited in carefuly thought out ways that let the viewer make out what is happening while still being exciting, and are highly praised by film makers.
Claiming they're confusing and badly shot just proves you don't know shit about what you're talking about and just jumping on the prequel hate bandwagon
>>64030825
No 11 year old thought the cool ass red guy with horns and a double-ended lightsaber was in a movie that would ever be referred to as a "hot turd"
>>64027846
No one has had more impact in the modern times on the movie industry than George Lucas. NO ONE. He basically invented modern movie marketing and licensing almost by accident, pushed by the financial pressure of Fox studios. After that he became the most successful independent director in the history of cinema. And then he never bowed to the studios ever again, he became violently independent, creating his own studio to do things his way.
And then he propelled the movie technology forward extremely hard, the cameras, the digital editing, the sound technology, the CGI... name any technological area of film making, Lucas has an hand in it.
15 years ago most directors and execs in Hollywood were calling him a madman, that his vision of an all digital industry was a fantasy. Look how things have changed since. The Pixar we all know wouldn't even exist without him.
I'm not even gonna mention his creativity or his producing credits.
He is a true misunderstood genius if I ever saw one.
A creative genius in dire need of an editor to oversee everything.
>>64032136
>i dont care for your shitty opinions but ill defend to the death your right to spew them on a thai karaoke forum
back at you
>prequels fail at worldbuilding
I appreciate Coruscant and the politics behind The Republic more every time I see them.
>hyperactive action scenes
I agree that lots of moments are just a whole pile of crazy shit but I'd say they never really go beyond "moments." Once 50 Jedi show up the Attack of the Clones arena becomes a clusterfuck of lightsabers and lasers but before that the fights with the three monsters were awesome. And even during the jedi clusterfuck there were a couple of more contained things going on which I liked. I thought that Jango confronting Mace Windu was cool.
>cartoony landscapes
I think Tatooine looked good, the way Coruscant went from fancy high-rises to a dingy bottom level was cool, Kamino was a sterile and weird place but I think that was very appropriate considering what it was, Mustafar was great. Thinking back I actually like the settings of the prequels.
>not real
>not lived in
I don't really know what to say to this. When I watch them I never catch myself thinking "damn, if only this looked more lived in I could get into it." Could you give examples? I thought the places looked good.
>wooden performances
>autistic dialogue
This only bothers me at a couple of points, Anakin and Padme speaking tends to be painful most of the time but the rest is mostly solid. Obi-Wan and Anakin can be a bit odd, but in a pulp-serial kind of way that I'm willing to forgive. The only performances that really bother me across the whole thing are Anakin and Padme's scenes together. They're supposed to be intimate but pulpy writing simply can't be twisted to get that effect by the actors.
>sappy dialogue and plot points
>ii and iii rife with that shit
Really, outside of Anakin and Padme I have no problems. I think that Obi-Wan on Mustafar is even actually pretty damn good, aside from "only a Sith deals in absolutes."
>>64032136
>cartooney landcapes and creatures that make the world feel not real and not lived in.
This and the acting are my main problems with the prequels. CGI just was not where Lucas needed it to be to make the prequels work the way he had it in his head. It probably still isn't.
I always held out hope that he'd be able to go back and do prequel Special Editions with modern CG -- it can't fix Christensen and Portman's anti-chemistry, but my God some better FX would deridiculize them a lot.
He was an excellent director, and at times a serviceable writer. He's real talent was in building worlds. The worlds and monsters and ships, that's what made the OT so great. I don't know why he thought CG was a good idea for the prequels, Jew went to the darkside I guess.
This time it actually is a bit like poetry.
>>64032407
>"only a Sith deals in absolutes."
Well, the dogmatic and insular nature of the Jedi is one of the things that leads to their downfall in the story. Their smug blindness to the growing danger, right up until and even PAST the point Anakin tells them who the Sith Lord is, is a hallmark of the prequels.
The Jedi Council literally meets in an ivory tower, Lucas couldn't make it much more obvious than that.
>>64032360
it cant be possible that a human being could honestly believe the dumb shit you just typed. youre telling me obi wan riding the giant lizard was a masterfully directed scene?
and what strawmen? there are no misrepresented arguments in that post, just opinions regarding elements of the movie. do you even known what a strawman is? please give me an example of one
>>64032380
as a child i liked maul and his final battle but didnt like the movie in general. why is that hard to believe?
>>64032443
the awful cgi was a big nail in the coffin. when almost every item, location, and creature looks like a cheap cartoon theres no fucking way to inject any drama into the scenes. i suppose some people may not have noticed that the cgi was shoddybut your brain did.
>>64032954
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it wasn't well executed.
You're creating strawmen in that you're arguing against points that aren't there when you stablish your opinion as fact.
The action scenes in the prequels are widely regarded as well executed by film makers, the acting isn't "wooden and stiff", it is based on 30s serial films and 50s cinema and therefore highly different from todays Method acting, and the world building and scenery is absolutelt rich and creative.
You're arguing points that you made up to fit this image created by internet haters that the prequels are awkward pieces of obviously bad film making, when they're literally the opposite.
>>64033247
The point of the CGI backgrounds is to recriate that same ethereal feel of hand painted backgrounds from mid to early 20th century cinema.
It's like you fucks never even bothered to study cinema. Seriously, go watch Metropolis and then come talk about the Prequel's special effects.
Just a talentless hack that got lucky in the 70s/80s thanks to a great team Nothing more. Time showed who he really was.
Althoug I do recognize the time he spent researching for the first movie
>>64033395
Not even George Lucas is buying that shitty defense of the prequels.
How do you reconcile Lucas' original doped out ideas (Han Solo being a green alien, C3P0 being like a used car salesman, Luke being a 60 year old general with a robot head) with his actual good ideas? Clearly he needs someone to pare down his initial output and oversee its execution.
![THX.1138.1971.1080p.mkv_snapshot_00.22.06_[2014.12.31_22.02.16].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wWC8yMa.jpg "THX.1138.1971.1080p.mkv_snapshot_00.22.06_[2014.12.31_22.02.16].jpg")
>>64029348
star wars is certainly his legacy and made the biggest impact of anything he's done by many orders of magnitude, but imho thx 1138 is his actual masterpiece
>>64033432
Was a single one of the things you just wrote an original thought?
>>64033481
It's actualy true though. George is a visual story teller, and he knew what he was doing when he went for the CGI landscapes.
>>64030719
so he gimped his story to make "oh so pretty pattern"
fuck that, I'd rather have 3 more movies on the same level of quality as the first three
>>64032407
.
i felt even smaller scale encounters such as pre-jedi mob arena fight still seemed too over the top and cartooney. and again, what i consider to be terrible cgi just made it not work for me.
by not lived in i mean a lack of practical effects and set design. the cgi buildings and sets didnt look real to me. as opposed to a set like maz kanatas cantina which was cluttered with items to make it feel like many creatured had come through and time had passed there. it was textured and gritty and felt real. especially being populated by puppets. so the actors had a set and characters to react to instead of wandering expressionlessly through green screens and later having shit placed around them in post. i think giving actors a real set and terrain to traverse and real creatures to react to is necesarry for getting a believable performance. when an actor is actually seeing and feeling whats in the scene around them i feel they deliver, possibly unbeknownst to them, a more realstic performance. on the other hand when everything is greenscreen i think the viewer at least subconsciously realizes something doesnt quite feel right.
as for performances, i felt everyone did an okay job with terrible material. anakin and padme were the worst actors, but qui gon and obi wan and the rest of the talent were trying to squeeze blood from a stone with that writing.
youre probably thinking its silly to place so much blame on the cgi, but in an adventure movie where the majority of what youre seeing is action set pieces and fantastical worlds, making the worlds and and backdrops look real, like it actually exists, is extremely important. the prequels are visual movies, and rely primarily on visuals to court the audience. so if all the sets and creatures are cgi, and the cgi is bad, which i believe it is, then no other elements of the movie can work because its all taking place in a world i cant believe exists
>>64033815
You don't need three more movies when you can just watch the first three again.
>>64032407
>>64033884
but hey, its all just opinion and a matter of what you can forgive and remain invested in the movie. your threshold was just higher than mine.
>>64032407
>this nigga trying to defend the prequels
go watch plinkett's review again retard. There is a point where you just drop your guns and admit that you're wrong, and we've long passed it
>>64033974
at least its a civil discussion
>>64027846
accidental genius
>>64027846
ANH was saved by an editor, who lucas fired before ESB. Luckily this editor convinced the rest of the editing team to keep a close eye on it and cut cut cut.
Lucas is his own worst enemy
>>64033928
life is about new experiences unfortunately
but at this point you just drop star wars and watch something else, there are thousands of great films out there begging for attention.
Like "Peppermint Candy", for example. such a good movie
>>64033884
What the fuck do you even mean by cartooney?
How are those scenes any different from the Rancor fight, the Sarlaac Pit Battle or the trash compactor sequence?
Fuck, what about the Ewoks vs Empire battle?
Star Wars has always had these over the top action moments.
>>64033997
You know, what, you're right. I'm sorry for being rude
>>64034033
>Peppermint Candy
Looks interesting. I'm not the one you replied to but I think I'll watch it. I've never really looked into any Korean stuff before.
>>64033395
>the cgi was supposed to be awful
your point is technically correct, but the cgi failed to make landscapes that looked real. matte paintings and set hybrids could have provided the same effect and while looking real. the bad cgi was simply an error on lucas part, believing his crew could create cgi that looked just as real as practicals while allowing the opportunity for unlimited scale which was not possible with miniatures sitting in a room. they likely filmed the entire first movie before seeing the cgi in action, and by that point they couldnt start building sets.
for ii and iii i assume lucas was either too stubborn to admit cgi reliance was a mistake, or simply too out of touch with reality to realize just how bad it was
>>64034166
it's really comfy
>>64028125
Lucas was the entire brain behind the first Indiana Jones, it was literally him who made the good ideas and shot down the bad ones
>>64027881
haha me_irl rite?
>>64027846
He is like Eichmann - a man without ego or charisma, but completely useful for the time and culture he is in. He is blank slate.
He copied the most useful sources and he created something simple and basic, that is almost mythological.
He failed in prequels because he tried to tell his story. He should have copied (again) someones great work - for example adaptations of Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet as back-story of OT. He would be great at this.
>>64027846
genius sans filter that must be caged to create
>>64033307
>the acting isn't "wooden and stiff",
no, john, you are the bait
>>64033767
thats probably true. but i doubt lucas was expecting the cgi to be fucking terrible.
>>64034196
Matte paitings stand out a lot when you watch old films nowadays. But we know we're supposed to appreciate them for what they're trying to represent and not take realistically.
For some reason you can't suspend your disbelief in the same way when it comes to the prequels, probably because you've been convinced cgi = bad, so any obvious cgi scenert is automatically shit.
>>64034044
>>64034044
couple things. one is that it literally looks like a cartoon. you have actors interacting with poor cgi creatures like its roger rabbit and its jarring and looks plain bad.
the scenes also suffer from legolas-in-the-hobbit syndrome
when you go from practicals to cgi your options are limitless, and in the hobbit and prequels cases the shift to cgi resulted in outrageous acrobatics, impossible manuevers, suspension of physics, and over choreographed stuntwork with a shitty cgi backdrop. when lukes stuck with the rancor hes in a real, dark, textured room with a real puppet. luke doesnt do any impossibly intricate fight moves or impossible acrobatics, youre watching a guy realistically outmaneuver a big monster and it all looks real and reasonable.
legolas running up falling cartoon stairs and yoda doing a double 1080 in mid air and bouncing all over the place looks unrealistic. its a suspension of in world logic on top of bad cgi. the action and visuals look like a cartoon.
>>64034865
>its muh space majick franchise, it doesnt need to be explained, no expoe-zishun gud MISTIRRYYYYY
>but evry fite needs 2 b purfectly reuhlistick muh immersion
make up your fucking mind.
>>64034865
>watching a guy realistically outmaneuver a big monster
Kek. I get what you're saying, but I disagree. I don't think it looks weird in the films, it's pretty well animated and well enough rendered.
>>64034594
a background thats solely a matte painting looks bad. but a painting that adds to a real location or set can look fine if its not the main focus. cgi can work fine as well as long as its not the primary focus of the shot. the problem in old movies is that backgrounds would be entirely painting and would clash at the seams where it met something real. in the prequels nothing is real besides a few actors, the cgi is poor, and it makes up entire landscapes. looking fake to begin with and clashing heavily with the real actors
>>64033628
Why don't the Blu-Rays have a music-only track, then?
Put it this way: If Lucas didn't create a Star Wars, somebody else would have.
>>64027846
He has great imagination for worldbuilding and is a good businessman. That's pretty much it.
>>64029988
;________;
>>64035166
nah
>>64033815the pretty pattern means hes a hack.
>>64030825
you wrote so much but said so little
>>64034995
eh, agree to disagree
i mean realistic for the movies logic. its a big fake monster yes, but luke moves and acts realistically like an actual dude stuck with a monster. its like the old "internal logic in a fantastical setting" saying that nobody seems to think matters anymore. if youre gonna have fantastical shit going on, everything else needs to be as grounded and realistic as possible. i think its one of the most important rules to follow when trying to have audiences suspend their disbelief watching magic and monsters and shit. on a technical level i honestly like the lightsaber duel in tfa better than anything in the ot or prequels. the ot duels had no choreography at all, just 2 people lazily slapping light sticks together and monologuing . while the prequels over choreograph duels making it look unbelievable and too over the top. tfa gets it just right, its choreographed yet realistic and seems like how two scared people might act trying to kill each other with plasma beams or whatever the fuck they are.
>>64035304
You're going through so many circles in logic, man. Literally everything you said can be used against the points you're making. Just realize you're trying to hate on the prequels out of personal taste instead of objective reasons and let it go.
>>64035362
bro you cant reason with these people
>>64035362
give me an example of how what i just said nullifies something else ive said.
>>64035362
well of course its personal taste. most people agree the cgi and acting is bad, others dont. every criticism is subjective, theres no formula for what is and is not done well. thats why these arguments never end. the best you can hope for is a majority to agree with you
>>64035568
You use internal logic to bash the prequels, when it actually has the most consistent fictional logic of all seven films. You say VII has better fights than OT, when it's literally the same and even based on the final duels in ESB and ROTJ, and you talk about realism and being grounded in a space opera saga, which main features are its disregard of realism for better visuals and action.
>>64027846
Great ideaman, shit director
The OT and THX were good because he only directed ANH and he was in his stage of youthful passion before becoming a cynical moneygrubber
>>64035744
I don't have a VIPER album ridiculous enough to describe how exasperated your post has made me feel. This one might be close.
>When it comes to visualizing fantasy landscapes in a matter-of-fact way, few rivals can touch him, and his knack for balancing menace, mayhem, slapstick and sentiment within a single sequence rivals Hitchcock, Spielberg and Kurosawa. Yet his set pieces often do little to advance his stories and themes. (Consider the pod race in The Phantom Menace—one of the most intricately imagined action scenes ever filmed, yet barely relevant to the plot; for that matter, consider Sith's opening starship battle, which seems to go on for days.) With actors, he's King Midas in reverse, and his dialogue ranges from competent to cruddy. The mix of A+ technique and C- dramaturgy is nearly unique in American cinema;
>Lucas is the directorial equivalent of a prophesied sci-fi man-child who can levitate whole cities but can't master a knife and fork. Sith is an infuriating, electrifying movie—a savant's masterpiece.
>>64035856
KING OF /tv/
KING OF /tv/
KING OF /tv/
>>64035680
tfa duels based on ot duel, but they are clearly choreographed and presented differently. its clear upon initial viewing of lightsaber fights in all three series that each has a unique style with tfa and ot resembling each other the most with slight differences in choreography and direction. which doesnt contradict anything i said because where the prequels differ from the ot and suffers for it, tfa employs the same strategy for making a believable world as the ot. and the internal comment was followed by me stating that keeping actions and results realistic is necessary for combating the disassociative effect of watching a fantastical setting. also the last thing you said was wrong. the ot and tfa dont disregard realism where it doesnt need to. if luke did a 20 foot high backflip and beat the rancor in some series of hyper choreographed legolas tier fighting moves it would have looked silly, like the prequels. instead he rolls around a bit, jams a bone in its mouth and tosses a helmet at a door because those were his only realistic options. he doesnt break the laws of physics and everything that happens seems possible. compared to scenes in the prequels with super hectic fighting, physics defying acrobatics, etc
its just a fucking opinion, but like i said keeping grounded whatever you can to make an unrealistic situation more plausible is a common tactic in fantasy and sci fi. i mean just the sheer absurdity of the lava hopping in III shows how taking something to such a fantastical extreme can hurt believability. tfa does nothing as over the top as that, and the decision to ground whats happening for plausability is pretty clear in it. the ren rei duel is a perfect example of that kind of restraint. but that doesnt mean fanststical things cant consistently happen.
>>64030825
>presentation and wow-factor are more important than the deeper meaning and intent
this is only true in the context of garnering favorable public opinionbecause we all know the general public is great at critical analysis
>>64030825
>racism/sexism
/co/mblr pls
not everyone is willing to praise a movie because muh diversity
it's the most utterly shallow praise you could possibly give a movie, even worse than praising VFX which are at least a technical achievement
>>64030825
>or is it racism/sexism
i was about to answer seriously till i saw this, fuck off with that shit
>>64031933
>OP of that thread is a banned user
the Escapist is like F2P SomethingAwful
>>64036380
if a movie is shit it doesnt matter what the intent was. and in a sci fi movie series primarily known for magic and space battles how you present the sci fi is very important.
also what deeper meaning was there in the prequels? anakin is angry about nothing in particular and eventually becomes a pawn of the real antagonist. anakin story was ultimately irrelevent and the time on him felt wasted to me. it didnt matter who he was under the mask because he never affects the story until he puts on the mask. and even then hes just muscle for the bad guy.
and at the same time there are some ham fisted political messages presented as a dull space politics storyline
what deep themes and author intentions did i miss?
>>64036454
it was just one possibility of multiple listed. you cant deny that /tv/ consistently complained about finn and rey from the moment they were unveiled
i personally dont believe thsts the reason though, i think its more contrarianism mixed with a little nostalgic delusions from being children when the prequels came out. id never heard a single person defend the prequels on /tv/ until tfa premiered with great reviews and a big box office return that squashed prequel reviews and revenue
>>64035166
no, that applies to things created out of a necessity.
are people really this retarded?
>>64036576
in all 3 prequel movies we keep getting hints at anakin's desire to save everyone, and his frustration at his inability to do so.
>>64037092
pottery
>>64036681
people complained about finn because of JJ casting method that literally casted him because of race
i don't recall complaining about rey
save for the ironic ones
>>64030825
The prequels are bad.
Them being bad doesn't make the mediocrity that is TFA good
>>64037131
>muh stronk independent female
no, people bitched about rey from the beginning
>>64037131
which was fucking dumb since finn is like the only fucking non white character with a speaking role
im sure jj considers oscsr issac white
>>64027846
when you wear a black turtle neck, always...
>>64034594
>For some reason you can't suspend your disbelief in the same way when it comes to the prequels, probably because you've been convinced cgi = bad, so any obvious cgi scenert is automatically shit.
If you're a kid you grew up with video games so CGI actually looks kind of natural and it's easy to look at it.
Of course BAD cgi sticks out like a sore thumb and there's plenty of that in the prequels as well, mainly the locations like Coruscant and the temples because I remember the battle sequences rocked
>>64033628
PATRICIAN
His wife was the true genius tbH
>>64029705
so basically brave new world?
>>64037573
Yeah, more or less. I never liked that book though. I don't care for Huxley's writing. Lucas' filmmaking on the other hand is top-tier. Probably because of that more than anything I prefer Lucas' vision of the future. It's been a while and I might read it again, but right now I think Huxley should have stuck to essays.
>>64029956
Before I dedicate an hour into reading this, is this some convoluted attempt at prequel apologism?
>everything good about Star Wars isn't Lucas
>everything bad is only him and nobody else
How to spot the Plinkett drones.
>>64028125
The problem is he can't handle being told his ideas aren't good. Because he thinks all his ideas are good. Because they're his.
And how do you figure he doesn't pretend to have talent? Hes made so much complete and total garbage over the years that a person not pretending to have talent would not have made.
>>64037883
>The problem is he can't handle being told his ideas aren't good
Do you have a source for this?
>Because he thinks all his ideas are good
Source?
>Because they're his.
Source?
Stop talking out of your ass because you follow RLM on Youtube.
>>64037875
>has little to no creative control
>makes cornerstones of western culture
>has complete creative control
>bores out holes in those cornerstones and shits in them
This isn't rocket science. Plinkett didn't invent lucas resentment. Lucas made that himself in the 90s by hunting down and destroying original prints/masters of the OT so he could achieve sexual gratification.
>>64037928
>>has little to no creative control
Do you actually believe this? You have no idea what went into making Star Wars. Stop pretend you do.
>>64037745
Yea I love Orwell's writing but Huxley's writing put me off in the first chapter.
I'm sure it's a good book though and I will give it another chance.
>>64029956
This is a case where people are searching way too hard and drawing connections that were not intentional
>>64037951
>>64037915
>defend lucas
>get attention on the internet
We get it, you're young. You didn't have a clearly autistic person shitting on your childhood for two decades.
>>64038014
I'm not defending Lucas. But if you're going to claim that everything good about Star Wars was a fluke and had fucking nothing to do with Lucas himself, then I want to see sources backing that up. Because right now this thread is just an ass of assumptions because the current Internet attitude is that Lucas is the devil and the source of ball bad in Star Wars and none of the good.
>>64037951
he had a lot of no-men, people who knew what they were doing, making sure he didn't produce entirely shit films.
>>64038064
>>64037951
but with the prequels he had a bunch of kids and long time fans making whatever he farted out
>>64038064
No-men isn't the same as Lucas having "little to no creative control". He directed and wrote ANH. He wrote the story for EBS. He directed and wrote ROTJ. Are you going to say that nothing good about these movies are due to him but no-men in the background?
>the best sw film wasn't directed by lucas
dont mean 7
>>64037787
It's actually really damn well written. I'm the anon who said he'd start reading it earlier in the thread. I recently finished it and I was very impressed.
It points out consistent themes and parallels across the entire saga which have really made me rethink how the prequels and OT are related. In my mind they fit together as a whole much more cohesively now.
>>64038107
no men, and a huge, dedicated team of artists with more talent than lucas could shoot out of his fingers
>>64038140
Even if there was intentional poetry between 'ring' movies, that doesn't excuse the shit character writing in the prequels which is a large factor in what makes the prequels bad
>>64038059
>fluke
>ctrl+f
The OT was calculated and structured. Constantly being revised and redirected. Lucas constantly being vetoed, questioned, and edited. Lucas steadily being shifted around from "director," to producer, to executive producer. Lucas then waited 14 years before he so much as went near star wars again. He made up bullshit about him kids, which is the go-to excuse for people to get away from a project, and only started working on starwars again once lucasarts and fox were filled with nothing but people in awe of the fact his name was on one of the top five highest grossing movies of all time.
>>64035856
That is some brilliant deduction by White. But, let's be honest, it takes one to know one. White and Lucas are both savants!
>>64037875
considering lucas had absolute control over every creative detail and executive decision in the prequels, yes, all the bad is his fault. since the OT is a more collaborative effort its difficult to tell where lucas input ends and others begins. but lucas has a documented history dating back to before sw was greenlit of his more famous friends like coppola and spielberg checking his awful ideas
>indiana jones and the invasion of the giant ants
just let that one sink in
>>64037987
>Episode 1
Sheev manipulates Padme into going against her nature and instead obeying her emotions, as she stated pacifist beliefs several times earlier in the film. By declaring war on the CIS-scum and making a vote of no confidence in the senate, Sheev is allowed to take power over The Republic.
>Episode 6
Sheev fails and loses his power by failing to manipulate Luke into giving in to his emotions. Instead Luke rejects Sheev's temptations and instead of following the mistakes of his mother and father takes the third option, leading to a Rebel victory, the destruction of The Sith, balance finally being restored to the force and the ancient prophecy regarding Anakin being fulfilled.
I challenge you to explain how that isn't poetry of the highest degree.
>>64038256
>Indiana Jones and the spooky haunted house
i'm fucken sold
>>64038140
In other words
P O T T E R Y
O
T
T
E
R
Y
>>64038220
>method acting and realism are the ultimate forms of storytelling
Dialogue is clunky I'll admit, but the characters felt very on point.
>>64038107
When you're working with people with more talent and ability than you personally have, they will have their own ideas, and those ideas will be better than yours. And if they have any sort of reputation in the industry, you basically have to follow their lead.
Lucas worked with no such people in the prequels. Lucasarts spent a decade or so being drained of all creativity and talent, until it was simply a collection of mindless yesmen jumping out of lucas' way.
>>64038276
>>64027846
Talentless hack, despite /tv/'s new trolling nothing can make the prequels good.
>>64038276
Padme was a diplomat and Luke was a jedi, the pottery would be that Sheev managed to convince Anakin to become Darth Vader, but then failed to convince Luke which ultimately was his downfall because Vader couldn't bear to watch his son die.
It's undeniable that the preqeuls had something going on, something good, however they fucking failed in so many areas it's really a horrible trilogy.
>>64038256
It was Coppola. You heard it here first folks. Coppola made the OT, not Lucas.every director ever worth something gets his shit checked by others. It's a natural process of filmmaking. With that attitude, you can't really let anyone take credit for anything
>>64038285
Exactly. But it really is impressive how in depth he went to make sure that recognizable themes and motifs showed up consistently throughout the entire saga. The whole saga's constantly referencing itself in at least three different contexts.
THE FORCE AWAKENS BEING UTTER SHIT DOES NOT MAKE PREQUELS GOOD
THEY ARE STILL UTTER SHIT AS WELL
WHEN WILL YOU RETARDS UNDERSTAND THIS
LUCAS IS OVERRATED HACK
REEE etc.
>>64038308
>JJ Abrams
>not a hack
>turned Yoda into a Yamaican hipster and had the villain as CGI cartoon
Lucas was better. In every way. Abrams is a Disney shill, not a storyteller.
>>64037915
yes, look up speilbergs interview regarding lucas input on kingdom of the crystal skull. lucas used his leverage as production company owner to browbeat spielberg into incorporating lucas ideas. spiekberg makes it clear that the idess were bad, he didnt want to use them, and only acquiesed out of fatigue and loyalty to his old friend
>>64038308
It's definitely the nerd on the right who seems to be going for "inconspicious" little "I'm working" poses in each photo which he plans to post on Reddit once he's done for the day.
>>64038301
The love plot between anakin and padme is incredibly contrived. Not just the dialogue but everything about it - the fact that anakin has been deeply in love with her for 10 years without seeing her since he was a prepubescent kid, the fact they never act affectionately towards each other (I love you more, no I love you more does not count as acting affectionately), and the entire concept of forbidden love was so contrived I'm almost convinced the sole reason he did it was because was trying to copy titanic after he was so upset he couldn't beat it with Phantom Menace
Obi and anakin are supposed to be friends, but in the films you only see them acting passive aggressive to each other - and anakin straight out shittalks obi behind his back
The plot and the characters had way more fundamental flaws than just the dialogue
>>64038344
>backing up a relatively normalfaggot opinion with an /r9k/ meme
mischievous
>>64038107
he didnt direct jedi brah
>>64038107
He is credit as directing and writing ANH, but he did not run the day-to-day operations such as coaching the actors and the screenplay went through dozens of rewrites.
Star Wars would not have been a success without not-lucas people coming in and salvaging the film from lucas's original director cut
George has great ideas. He just needs someone smart to be there with him and write dialogue as well as put his ideas together into a coherent and good movie.
His world building is top notch
>>64038401
The normal fag thing to do would be to not like the star wars films at all. The second degree away from normal faggotry would be to not think critically about any of the movies and just like them regardless. The kind of viewer Lucas and Abrams was hoping for, you know a stupid one. Who cares more about buying merchandise and less about plot points.
>>64035856
Why is he named white tho?
>>64038498
>The normal fag thing to do would be to not like the star wars films at all
Not really, normies LOVE star wars.
>>64038324
i never said coppola had any influence on star wars. he was giving lucas a lot of advice around american grafitis time.
and maybe lucas checked his director friends as well, but history has
only documented situations that were the other way around
>>64038516
He's turbocontrarian. Of course he's black guy named white.
Reading that old interview Lawrence Kasdan sounds like a complete pleb
I don't think other people are why Star Wars & Empire were good, but yeah Lucas sold out come Jedi
>>64038281
this ones not that bad desu senpai
More importantly.
How come Lucas used to be this fucking handsome?
Seriously I'm not even gay but damn
>>64038374
>contrived
I don't think it's so bad. The 10 years thing doesn't feel anywhere near as bad if you replace the term "deeply in love" with "infatuated." Padme came into his life at a very impressionable time and considering everything that happened while she was around it's understandable that she would have had quite the impact on him. And being thrown into a strictly dogmatic order after ~10 years of relatively free life wouldn't have given him much else to think about after Padme.
>affectionately
I thought that the Naboo sequences were more than enough for this, then there's the near death experiences that they share and all the excitement of the war combined with how young they are, I think them ending up together makes sense. Do you think Romeo & Juliet is contrived because they fall in love after one conversation in which nothing of substance is said?
>trying to copy Titanic after he was so upset he couldn't beat it with Phantom Menace
I hate you.
>only see [Obi-Wan and Anakin] acting passive aggressive to each other
Obi-Wan's constantly chastising Anakin and Anakin gets salty fairly often but I think it's made more than clear that they're close. The chastising feels relatively good natured most of the time, Obi-Wan never truly seems to get mad at Anakin for his at times ridiculous antics. When Anakin suddenly jumps out of a flying car to pursue the assassin in Attack of the Clones Obi-Wan's reaction is just an exasperated "I hate it when he does that." and a short lecture about losing his lightsaber later on. And in the elevator their conversation feels more like banter than antagonism. Even when Anakin and Padme get caught on Geonosis and they all seem doomed Obi-Wan doesn't seem truly mad at him. They seem to understand each other very well and get along decently.
>>64038276
sure its poetry. too bad the movies suck on their own merit
>>64032360
there were 0 strawmen in that post. meanwhil you made a strawman when you replied to anon's comment about shitty acting by saying "hurr just because it's not realistic doesnt mean it's bad" (which anon then pointed out he never said). you're a fag
>>64038498
>the normal fag thing to do would be to not like the star wars films at all
Have you been outside recently or does all of your understanding of normal people come from old movies? Do you think that the jocks still shove the nerd's heads down toilets for knowing what a wookie is?
Normalfaggots are mostly really into Star Wars. True nerds are either so into Star Wars that they can't relate to the normalfaggots about it or not into Star Wars at all because they're too busy reading Book of the New Sun.
>there are niggers in this thread that unironically believe that Guardians of the Galaxy: The Force Awakens Into Darkness is better than the prequels
>>64035856
>Lucas is the directorial equivalent of a prophesied sci-fi man-child
i can't breathe
i can't breathe
i can't breathe
based lucas
>>64038576
He's got some solid 9/10 hair+beard genetics. If he bothered to stay in shape he'd probably still look sexy now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da8s9m4zEpo
It's really hard to understand what's going on in that man's head
he seems genuine like he legitimately thinks what he's making is good, but he's clueless
>>64038540
>>64038634
There was a further elaboration in my post you seem to be missing just after the first sentence.
Also to the second guy, I never bought into the "jock" bullshit, but the thin veneer of geeky and nerdy shit being accepted has a limit to most people in real life. Yes it's more accepted, but it still has a weak threshold of being acceptable compared to other types of hobbies and things.
>>64038699
Lucas literally knew this.
http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/
>>64038373
i dont think jj is a great director, but i do think he gives a shit and wanted to make a star wars that would please the fans. the sheer amount of puppetry and practical effects they used shows he listened to fan complaints, and didnt simply go cgi fest like most hollywood blockbusters. he was able to create a film that at least on the surface seemed to be a labour of both passion and hollywood focus testing.
jjs fanboyism gives him a tin ea though and lack of vision
>>64038716
we've been through this, even if there was a valid attempt at poetry regarding plot points, the execution of the characters is laughable at best and downright horrible at worst
>>64038725
>directing the creation of a billion dollar product
>cares about the end result
that goes without saying, but did he make a good movie or a good Star Wars movie?
What's this guy's MO? Is this accepting his mistakes or pulling a fuck you on fans?
>>64038276
The vision of the force, and the difference between the light and dark sides as presented in the OT was basically Aesop's fable of the sun and the wind. The light side being gentle guiding and direction to achieve your goals and the dark side being the exercise of will and rage in attempt to hammer and beat people/reality into doing what you want.
The latter is easier, faster, and more visually impressive than the former, but its also self-defeating in most cases, unless you just want to kill/destroy things.
Now, the problem with comparing sheev to the emperor is the emperor wasn't attempting to get a volatile, emotional, hate and rage filled young man to go against his nature. The emperor was attempting to luke to completely and totally embrace his nature and join him. The problem is luke saw where this was going, by seeing the connection between his robotic hand and his father's severed hand, and rejected it. The emperor then starts trying to torture him into obedience, literally acting out the "wind" portion of Aesop's fable, which results in lukes father choosing luke over the emperor, as the emporer's actions reflected what vader had been doing the entire time. Trying to force luke into doing what he wanted.
Then you have sheev just mind controlling everyone in the galaxy at all times. he says a few words and a pacifist declares war or whatever. He waves his hand and the jedi become a group of violent warlords. A few more words and you have anakin hating sand so much he starts seeing sand in padme and strangles her for being sand. Saying shit like 'FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THE JEDI ARE EVIL' for no good reason. And, yea, I get that anakin is supposed to be a stunted and emotional manchild in the prequels, but hes stupid beyond all comprehension.
So, if we're to assume sheev and the emperor are the same character, then he goes from essentially being God to a guy who can't even get a child to do what he wants.
>>64038766
He made a well executed narrative that sits about half way on the star wars ranking chart, above the prequels and arguably on par with Jedi as a whole.
The lightsaber duel at the end of TFA is second only to Luke and Vader in Jedi in terms of how well it conveys emotions and the realism of the combat given the emotional circumstances
>>64038725
>that would please the fans
He wanted to please the basest of the base in the laziest possible way, but he did aim to please, I'll give him that. Lucas was always aiming for something higher right from the start.
After A New Hope was done filming Lucas was a wreck, he was worried that he'd created something shallow and childish and hadn't done justice to the ideas he set out to show people. I think he did a solid job, but unfortunately those childish elements are what have made his work endure, and they're the legacy that JJ's work is propagating.
He might be aiming to make the best Star Wars he can, but to him Star Wars is nothing more than nostalgia, awesome lasers, robots & aliens and a lightsaber fight at the end.
>>64038766
lol, no.
Even Battlefield 4: Stars Wars Edition was shit.
>>64038699
http://youtu.be/FSuDjjlIPak
Here's a documentary dating back to 1977!
>>64034960
how does saying that the state of the galaxy outside the heroes journey not needing heavy exposition and actually being mostly irrelevent contradict me saying the action set pieces need to be grounded in reality to maintain suspension of disbelief?
i cant believe how much ass has been ravaged in this thread simply by suggesting there are flaws in a childrens movie
>>64038810
>above the prequels and arguably on par with Jedi as a whole.
haha no
spoken like a true video game player
I think he's more concerned with his legacy, the format, and the tableau than with story structure. Still a genius in his way.
>>64038816
You do realize ANH grossed almost as much as empire and RotJ combined, right? You realize ANH grossed more than the entire prequel trilogy, right?
So TFA harkening back to ANH was abrams/disney trying to get back the fans who weren't willing to put up with ewoks or anything about the prequels.
>>64038699
>he seems genuine like he legitimately thinks what he's making is good, but he's clueless
he genuinely knows whats going on, it is you who is clueless
fucking pleb
how do people like you even exist?
>>64038598
finally i can rest in peace
>>64038816
Mate, Lucas has been appealing to little chidlren since the 80s. Hell the ewoks was the first true sign. He made a bank out of toys, not the movies themselves.
Sure, he likes to add pottery to his SW films. I commend him for adding some depth. But let's not call him an auteur.
Only someone who sees this franchise as kiddy bullshit would do shit like giving a Jamaican comic relief alien an stupidly high screen time or how about shit like suggesting game devs to call the big bad Darth "Icky."
My view of him is the opposite. There are people who WANT to add depth to a franchise they love so much but he (was) always the first to shut it down in order to appeal to MUH KIDZ.
>>64038927
everyone is a genius in their own way. That's an entirely meaningless statement.
>>64035856
Based White does it again.
>>64038810
> above the prequels
Defend the map shit. I dare you. Not a single plotline inthe pt was that absolutely retarded.
>>64038944
If they only watched A New Hope I'd imagine that they weren't really Star Wars fans. More likely just the kind who follow hype. A New Hope was the hype event of its time. Just like The Force Awakens is being pushed as the hype event of our time.
>trying to get back the fans who weren't willing to put up with ewoks or anything about the prequels
To know if ewoks weren't their thing the fans would have to first see the movie. How many people do you think were legitimately planning to see Return of the Jedi but then didn't because word got out about the ewoks? The movie simply didn't have the weight of the hype train behind it.
>>64038990
That an inconsistent read on lucas, though. Yes he shot down ideas that would've added depth (and fired anyone who suggested such things), but he also tried to add depth, and failed horribly, but never acknowledged it. Indicating it wasn't the prospect of depth in his "kid's franchise" that triggered him, but the fact it wasn't his idea.
>>64038990
>MUH KIDZ
valid point. He didn't want Star Wars turning into modern capeshit where we all pretend it's okay to still love Batman because he's dealing with real world issues. Jar Jar, wacky R2D2 moments and the odd "hello there" moment kept Star Wars grounded.
>>64039046
>it wasn't bad. but a bunch of teddybears beat the empire. which was weird
>eh, I'll wait for video
Not rocket science. home video was basically murdering hollywood's ability to generate yields at the time.
>>64039111
>eh, I'll wait for video
That doesn't sound like fan-talk to me.
>>64036301
tl;dr
but heres a (you) for u
>>64039138
So we're going true scotsman on who is and isn't a fan of star wars?
Yea, okay.
>>64038766
it fixed the complaints people had about the prequels, and retained the things people liked about the OT
cut from prequels :
heavy handed space politics narrative and exposition
full cgi battles
full cgi sets
twirl flip fighting shit
no melodramatic romance
lightsabers are actually rare again
no grim dark slaughter juxtaposed by goofy slapstickhumor rendering tone inconsistent
no more pottery
kept from OT:
light hearted adventure that doesnt tip into toddler territory.
fun dialogue
grimness and successful humor actually balance each other out.
a contained heroes journey. a rehashed one but whatever
weighty desperate fighting
heroes finding themselves in sticky situations and escaping by the skin of their teeth thanks to quick thinking instead of every altercation ending in a lightsaber duel
practicals practicals practicals
so at first glance it at least seems like jj was concerned about competently giving the fans what they wanted, instead of just a generic blockbuster that would coast solely on brand recognition
He's a hack. He rapes all his decent old films.
Can't believe he fucking added a UFO to American Graffiti.
Theres still full cgi battles and sets m8, or do you honestly think they used practical effects for any of the spacecraft shit. How can there not be pottery either when over half the film is stolen from previous films?
>>64039451
You're mostly right, but
>no more pottery
is flat out wrong
>>64038816
theres no actual depth to the lucas films. especially not in the prequels. just some vague themes he doesnt understand "it rhymes". he had lofty philosophical goals but didnt reach, and made 3 awful movies as well. tfa may be a rehash with nothing to say, but its the first competent star wars in 30"years.
lets just hope star wars doesnt go star trek reboot path and every movie is a reference filled rehash of an older film. as long as there isnt a 4th death star in 8 and the conflict comes from elsewheresith reithen i think theyll continue to sit somewhere between the ot and prequels in quality which is better than i expected. i was sure tfa would be prequel bad or just a generic by the numbers hollywood blockbuster like jurassic world
>>64029988
A lot of those shots aren't actually mirroring themselves.
>>64031933
Nobody liked the prequels before 09.
The only reason people claim to like them now is because of nostalgia and they saw them when they were young. I remember being fucking 8 years old and seeing Episode 1 in theaters. My father, who had seen all of the OT in theaters literally said "What the fuck was that" after the movie ended.
>>64039598
I think my favorite part about the prequels has to be the politics. Lucas clearly has zero understanding of politics, yet its such a huge part of the prequels.
I think he's a simpleton that got lucky. He stole from things he liked and put it in the right combination. Without others to keep him in check he fucks up royally.
>>64037883
Sure, he went out of control on Episode I, but he was very clearly reeled back in for the most part. By the time episode 7 came out, he was a broken husk of his former self.
Leave the poor guy alone, man.
>>64038771
probably just acknowledging that its a source of contention within the fandom.
or a fuck you to fans.
or maybe he wore it specifically to tease harrison ford and it was just a little joke for then
>>64039586
i am? i wouldnt consider references or relatives pottery. so whatd i miss?
>>64039630
I was 16, I grew up on the OT, and I was between kid excitement and "what the fuck" after TPM. I tried to make excuses to justify the kid excitement, but the "what the fuck" never went away, and I resolved to let the next movie decide which side was right.
Its weird knowing the exact moment your childhood ended.
>>64039684
You see broken husk, I see resentful bitterness. The negative reactions to jarjar and child actors made lucas pull a complete 180 and do nothing but "adult stuff and war! cause thats what they want! they hate fun!!" So we get the clone wars.
>>64039160
The division between who is and isn't a fan isn't arbitrary like you're saying. You said or at least I think you implied that The Force Awakens was an attempt at winning back fans who were put off by Return of the Jedi and the prequels. I'd say that the people who saw New Hope but didn't bother with the rest aren't Star Wars fans. This isn't some kind "poser or not" dick measuring contest. I'm challenging your justification of how The Force Awakens recycled the popular elements of A New Hope.
>>64033628
>shot reverse shot
Is current Lucas a different person?
>>64039527
a rehash of the original is just a reference filled soft reboot. i cant think of much shit that happens in itthat reflects something from an older installment for adevelopmental or narrative purpose, just direct references.
>>64039598
>there's no actual depth to the lucas films
IN THIS POST:hot opinions
>>64039026
All of the plotlines in the PT were retarded. TPM was politics for retards, AOTC was a detective story/love story for retards and ROTS was tragedy for retards.
>>64039773
the bigger lucas hypothesis is true
>>64039775
Clearly we saw 2 different films
>>64039817
I think "by a retard" is a more accurate description. As every lucas apologist agrees lucas isn't making movies for an audience.
>>64039026
>The arrogance of the librarian at the Jedi Archives is equally striking. In her haughty claim that “if an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist,” she echoes the mistake of the archive droids in their failed analysis of a key toxic dart. As one of the more worldly characters informs us, this failure comes from focusing on exterior “symbols” rather than trusting the holistic wisdom that flows from knowledge of the whole. Lucas’ playful association of the librarian with an unthinking robot is another charming touch that works seamlessly with the film’s stress on the perils of over-rationalization and its theme of encroaching mechanization. Acting like a machine is, after all, the first stage in losing one’s humanity.
t. David Begor
>http://brightlightsfilm.com/defense-clones-lucass-latest-cheap-thrills-sophisticated-filmmaking/#.VnuttE-YFQI
>>64039817
They all made sense, no matter your opinion on how they were told. Nothing about a treasure map for Luke does, and its only the largest turd in the shitheap that is TFA. Theres plenty more to bitch about.
>>64039527
and youre right. the space battle shit is mostly cgi. but there are ship models and miniatures used as well
but the vast majority is practical and on location filming with some cgi support
>>64039714
References are one thing, but plot similarities are pottery
Rey being from a desert planet like luke is pottery
finn being ordered around by phasma at the start of the movie and then ordering phasma around at the end is pottery self-contained to TFA
The not-death-star being destroyed by a weakpoint could be considered pottery
Luke becoming an obi-wan type figure is pottery
None of these are bad things, but they are parallels to the OT which comes under the definition of pottery
>>64039801
please, enlighten mean to some lucas poetry that goes beyond generic anime themes of shit like good/evil, friendship power, believing in yourself, etc
>>64039918
rehashing the plot is poetic? i just thought it lack of creativity
>>64039824
well fill me in then with some pottery barn examples
>>64039762
Because, clearly, the audience was more engaged and interested in star wars than they were the sequel (that was a sequel to a perfectly self-contained movie, that had no space battles, therefor no reason to see it in theaters) and RotJ, which was teddybear's picnic in a redwood forest.
The problem is word of mouth has and will always be the biggest determining factor of box offices success. So being able to accurately describe an installment in a franchise of "wars in space" as "teddybear forest" murders a huge amount of box office potential.
Basically they followed the money with TFA. The vast majority was in ANH, with the second largest chunk being empire, and RotJ being enough of a middling mess to just ignore mostly. And the prequels just being laughable compared to ANH money.
<--remember this happened.
BUT creative-wise he's more creative than JarJar is, who basically just made a movie of highlights based on the original trilogy.
>>64039876
And? A single planet with only a name to go by being erased is one thing. Still dumb, but possible, and not the entire main plotline but instead just a minor point. Needing a treasure map to find a planet that needs an entire galactic map to function and is the main plotline can fuck right off. TFA is a bad movie, and I can't wait til time passes and perception on it shifts more in my favor, because it inevitably will.
>>64040006
why the hell did he film this all at once
>>64029956
>That pic
Fuck you, it's Christmas
>>64039925
The central conflict/theme of Star Wars from The Phantom Menace has always been balance and the prophecy that Anakin was meant to fulfill.
Some fans were upset when in an interview Lucas stated that "balance" meant no Sith, rather than Jedi and Sith existing at the same time because that's deep. But when he said that he didn't simply mean that all would be well in the world when all of the good guys killed the last of the bad guys. Jedi and Sith are two sides of the same coin, there's a heavy element of duality going on between them. The ideals of the Jedi and Sith represent the potential within a person rather than a binary option. Achieving balance in the force means an individuals "Jedi" ideals of selflessness, compassion and sacrifice winning out over their "sith" ones of greed, anger and fear.
Star Wars is a story about blue good guys fighting red bad guys but on another level it's about the internal conflict within each of these "good" and "bad" characters. At the end of Return of the Jedi the rebels win and the Empire lose, but this is immediately preceded by Luke's better qualities winning out over the negative ones that were threatening to overwhelm him. The conflict at the heart of the final showdown in Return of the Jedi isn't about lightsaber fighting, it's about the good potential that's inside humanity winning out over the dark despite the odds. Even after all that happened as Padme said "there's still good in him [Anakin]."
By starting the new movies with Anakin as a wide-eyed kid we got to see Anakin become corrupted even while holding the best of intentions in his heart and because of this I think Return of the Jedi is made more powerful. The prequel trilogy is about Anakin's descent brought on by the dark emotions within him, while the original trilogy is about the eventual triumph of the good.
Poetry. It kind of rhymes. Consistency and stuff.
>>64040014
Oh, sorry. I thought you meant the planet map in Clones. I agree that The Force Awakens map thing doesn't really work. That movie didn't try very hard in my opinion.
I think that The First Order and The Resistance is one of the laziest status quo resets in fiction.
