Damage Control
>>64009863
I never thought she was a mary sue to be honest
She was boring as fuck, though.
I don't get why people are thinking its absolutely ridiculous she's suddenly so strong with the force. Midichlorians are still canon, so thats probably the explanation
Poe was more of a Mary Sue tbqh
>>64010015
Okay, so she is strong with the force.
But why can she speak droid, can understand Wookiees, can fly every ship, basically she can do anything
>>64010015
Name one thing Rey is bad at / someone is better than her at it
>>64010048
She's a mechanic person who scavenges and works with machinery all her life, right? Also surrounded by all sorts of people from different planets. I don't think its crazy she can speak droid, fly ships well, and understand alien languages. It's all a big part of where the character grew up.
I get that its a little stupid to have a character begin really knowledgeable about everything. Not much for her to learn
>male mary sues
>>64009863
>still pushing that meme that Luke is a gary stu
They're really reaching, just can't accept any criticism of their stronk womyn. It didn't turn the movie into a train wreck but let's be honest with ourselves here
>>64010133
>apologizing for mary sue
no, child, dont make excuses for why she's a mary sue, explain how she's not a mary sue.while exhibiting all traits of one
>>64010183
I'm not apologising. I'm not even denying she's a shit character. She just didn't give off 'mary sue' vibes to me. didn't even seem like they put much effort into making her an interesting character at all, compared to the others.
How can someone honestly call Luke a mary sue? He's completely useless in the first film, except for at the very end, when obi-wan helps him destroy the death star.
If you have the nerve to call luke a mary sue, you HAVE to admit that Rey is a much bigger one.
>>64010105
Holding hands
>>64010133
>a mechanic person
False. This has never been established. Even if she was, that doesn't explain how she can fly a ship or speak droid.
>surrounded by all sorts of people from different planets
Also never established.
>a little stupid
Don't minimize it. It's fucking retarded and you're a diphshit for being okay with it.
>>64010228
>didn't give off 'mary sue' vibes
Yeah, the universe just doesn't give off "not created by a God" vibes to me. Must be the truth.
>>64010285
Why are they so offended about the term? It doesn't make the character bad.
In fact the actor did an amazing job playing Rey, she was probably the best newcomer in the whole film and stole the spotlight.
But she's still a Mary Sue.
>>64010285
You outright see her on a planet using mechanic gear and looking in specific parts of ships to get specific parts of it, and its established later that she clearly knows what she was looking for. And then you see her selling the parts to an alien, surrounded by countless other alien races.
Wow, Feminists really, really need Rey to be completely beyond criticism, huh?
>search "rey" "mary sue"
>get a few results from the millions of news sites on the web
>screencap page and make a thread on /tv/
fuck off
>>64010374
None of that actually implies she's a mechanic. Nearly every public location in SW so far has been full of aliens. Do every single one of them somehow magically speak droid or alien or whatever the fuck?
>>64010333
>she's probably the best newcomer
wrong again
>>64010527
Literally in the first page.
>>64010588
It definitely implies she has a huge amount of mechanical knowledge because of what she does.
And she lives on a planet working alongside a large amount of aliens, not leaving once in her life, you'd learn some other languages at that point. (also yes, most of the people on the other 'multicultural' planets are talking in a bunch of other languages too).
>male Mary Sue
>tfw you see all these sw fan posers
No one speaks droid except droids. People just understand droids.
>>64010333
>Why are they so offended about the term?
Because its the same sort of people who throw around the term trope left and right while criticising media
But now muh big strong womyn in a male dominated franchise if being called out on the same shit. So they must be using the term wrong because I cant even something something shitlord
>>64010888
>>>>>>>>>>/reddit/
I think the idea that Rey is a Mary Sue stems from two central problems with TFA:
The screenwriters never placed her in a situation that challenged her. Sure she's good at lots of shit, but she was always in her element, whether that was flying/fixing the falcon, or doing force related stuff. She was never shown to have an immediate grasp on things outside of her wheelhouse. For example, I'll bet if the rebellion (resistance?) asked her to lead the x-wing attack on starkiller base, she'd either refuse or fuck it up. Sure she can fly, but she doesn't know tactics. That example would be mary sue as fuck, but it never happens.
The second part to this is that TFA was written as the first part of a larger series. JJ and Kasdan knew for certain that Ep 8 and 9 were happening, and they wrote TFA to reflect that. They went lighter on Rey's backstory as a character in favor of establishing her traits; ones that will carry over into the next two films. Instead of fleshing out why she's good at force shit or why she has deep mechanical knowledge, they kept that info secret so it could be doled out in the usual SW revelatory fashion. No doubt her lineage/past will play a big factor in Ep 8 and JJ was banking that withheld bit of info will help put butts in seats.
People often bring up Luke in ANH in comparison, but I think that's unfair. Lucas had no clue that ANH would succeed like it did, and had no clue if the other movies would ever be financed. So he wrote Luke a more traditional and contained hero's journey, just in case. The goals of ANH and TFA are different, and therefore prevent different characterizations for their respective MCs.
So yea, I get why people think she's a Mary Sue (and she borderline is) but that is more a byproduct of the larger screenplay and SW universe than it is with her individual character. Rey was still the best part of the movie for me though, regardless.
>>64010719
>It definitely implies she has a huge amount of mechanical knowledge because of what she does.
This kid must be a pro computer programmer
>>64010133
>fly ships well
This was the biggest MS moment for me. A scavenger girl can fly the Millennium Falcon without a co-pilot in a dog fight chase through ruins lol.
>>64010990
That kid doesn't have to identify specific parts of a ship for the job its doing?
Also Rey is older than that.
>>64010285
The "tell don't show" method of the prequels are for anons like this.
>>64010972
In other words, they made a shitty character in a shitty movie because everything is banking on "cinematic universes" now. Why make a good movie when plebs will see it anyway and defend it to death by speculating about how the next one could possibly be not shit!
![1450891492354[1].webm](https://i.imgur.com/0CVbzCn.jpg "1450891492354[1].webm")
muhdick
>>64009863
>all these leftist SJW clickbait sites doing massive damage control
>>64010972
This tbqh, and time and time again, people are bringing up Luke when the better counterexample was Anakin in The Phantom Menace.
>>64009863
>heroine problem
OH AM I LAFFIN
>>64010466
Now that is podracing damage control, if ever I've seen one.
>>64011230
It's a film for goodness sake.
>>64011193
dem hot pants doe, TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT
>>64009863
No one should take internet journalism seriously, especially those trying to throw luke under the bus to defend their Waifu
>Finn cant help Rey beat Adam Driver because it would be the same machismo storyline of a female needing a male
>people compare Rey to Luke and forget that Luke needed Han Solo to bail his ass out in the final battle of IV, and then loses to Vader in V and VI
Imagine how stupid it would be if Leia managed to escape the death star and resist vader in the first movie. Now imagine if she also managed to grab Obi Wan's lightsaber after he died and beat Vader with it. Now imagine if she also was a super good pilot and mechanic and everything else under the fucking sun.
That's literally how fucking stupid this character is.
>>64009863
>OH NO, this chick wrote an article for Salon accusing Star Wars fans of all being "white male misogynists". Better make a thread on /tv/ about it
>>64011542
bruh she FIXES ships for a living
did u see all those tick marks? shes been doing this for a long time! im sure if we got a jawa in a starship they would kickass too
>>64010719
>It definitely implies she has a huge amount of mechanical knowledge because of what she does.
It would have been fine if she said that, but when asked how she knows all this stuff she goes "I dunno"
>WE WANT MORE REALISTIC DEPICTION OF WOMEN IN MOVIES
>bitch and whine when they are anything but blatant Mary Sues
Fucking feminists. Good thing this shit movie is tanking in Asia. Atleast one part of the world that hasn't dropped the ball.
>>64011668
>but when asked how she knows all this stuff she goes "I dunno"
this was annoying, not because its the truth, but because we arent actually exposed to why she can fly a starship
we know that Finn had some exposure to being a gunner from his scene with Poe, but Rey's piloting ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED
>>64011671
A realistic depiction of women in movies would be them utterly failing at the most basic tasks, acting like spoiled brats and being praised with shouts of "you go girl" after they manage to finally properly poo in loo
It just is not communicated all that well. You can argue Rey is dependent on Chewie shooting Ren just like Luke is on Han taking down those three TIE fighters.
But there is a difference, Han takes action with the purpose on helping Luke and Luke is showed directly needing that help. Chewie shots Kyle Ren out of anger of Han being killed and that indirectly leads to Rey being able to defeat him, but the Wookie did not take action to help her. Rey does not need help.
The whole first action scene with her is all about establishing she needs help from nobody.
I rooted as fuck for Finn in the final confrontation, because he is being shown to suck, but he moves forward and struggles. Rey was only interesting when she was scared of the visions provided by the lightsaber.
Maybe the cultural critics should be more up in arms about the black guy who was a janitor that sucks at everything he does all movie long, is amazed and star-struck by all the white people around him, then gets his ass beat by a space nazi policeman with a baton and riot shield.
You know, instead of being upset about people not able to relate to someone who's amazing at everything they do.
The main issue here is that she's the best at too many things. I don't have a problem with her being a crack mechanic, especially considering how many ships she's seen, and it being stated that she has skills as a pilot. By the time they land on Takodana, I could already see her as the sequel trilogy's Han Solo.
Then you find out she's force-sensitive and not just that, she's pretty good with it within a pretty short timeframe.
>But Anakin!
Anakin can't be considered a Mary Sue because Mary Sues do not have flaws. Anakin ends up becoming one of the most evil people in the galaxy; even though he redeems himself before death, he slaughters children and murders countless innocents before he does so.
>But Poe!
Poe is only good at one thing, and that's being a pilot. Acceptable, considering his entire premise is being the best pilot in the resistance. Despite his resistance to torture, he gives in during Kylo's force interrogation, and he got captured to begin with, and wouldn't have escaped if it weren't for Finn.
>But Luke!
Luke stumbles so many times throughout the OT, it's ridiculous that anyone could think he's a Mary Sue. ESB is literally Luke fucking up for the whole movie, building up to a climactic fuck up.
I'm hoping/expecting Rey to have her own struggles in Episode VIII. But for now, what did she do wrong in TFA? In fact, she didn't even get hurt in the entire movie! She got captured once and quickly solved the problem herself. Meanwhile Finn got fucked up in the duel against Kylo and got captured by the rathtar for a few minutes, and Poe was captured and tortured. Even Chewie got shot.
>>64009863
it's aint me
>>64010252
Also, why does it matter?
>>64011881
... so rey is a textbook "sue," but not a "mary sue."
>>64011862
>You can argue Rey is dependent on Chewie shooting Ren just like Luke is on Han taking down those three TIE fighters.
Not really, considering Rey still loses the duel until she trusts in the Force.
If Finn had shot Kylo during the duel, while he's distracted with Rey, that'd be closer.
>>64010043
I mean he got captured and tortured and needed to be rescued. Rey gets captured and is fine all by herself
>>64012036
So taking a hit from a weapon that throws people around like ragdolls, fired by another character, doesn't count as being dependent upon other characters because... why?
>>64010285
>speak droid.
When has the Star Wars universe ever shown this to be a rare trait? Everyone could understand droids from Uncle Owen to Padme.
She can only be redeemed if she turns to the Dark Side. Otherwise she's undeniably a piss-poor character.
>>64012102
Its not like abrams has ever written anything else.
>>64012084
except thats false
>>64012125
Rian Johnson is not perfect but at least he is daring and creative. I have faith that he'll make a better film than Abrams was able to.
>>64011603
>Oh Noes They called the Mary sue character a Mary Sue, better write a clickbait article on it and then hawk it on /tv/ pretending I hate it.
>>64012296
It entirely depends who is writing it, and what Disney is willing to experiment with
>>64011193
holy shit someone tell her never to take up boxing
Arguing that she's not a Mary Sue because her annoying flawlessness is supported by circumstances in her past is fucking retarded. Her past was MADE-UP - and probably as an afterthought to her general characterisation at that. They could just have easily have invented a past that made her a 3-dimensional character instead. Rey was basically created to target the Frozen audience. Disney doesn't care about your demographic and it certainly doesn't care about creating a quality story.
>>64012565
This is the same argument used to argue characters as sexists btw
>>64012432
Johnson has already written the script for Ep 8 (JJ loves it, apparently). Unless Disney completely cucks him I'm sure it'll be more interesting than TFA. He's less of a "safehands" than JJ so there's more chance it will flop, but hey at least there will be memes.
>>64012652
This post is barely coherent. What are you driving at?
>>64010015
>Midichlorians are still canon
Fuck you. Fuck you in the ass. Fuck you in the ass with a rusty steel pipe till you bleed to death. Fuck you. Seriously, fuck you.
>Uncle says he liked the movie but felt Rey was too good at everything
>10 year old cousin said she liked Rey
>Explain to her why she's a bad character and why Luke is a great character
Remember, make sure to red-pill them early
>>64012759
The argument is that Rey was written a specific way, in that her mysterious past doesn't excuse her character because the character was written that way when it could've just as easily been written another, less mary sueish way.
So the argument would be why is that character dressed so slutty or why are those characters so misogynistic. People would say it was to illustrate characters being a certain way and the counter argument would be that is not an excuse because they could have just as easily been written another way without relying on sexism or rape to sell their villainy.its a silly argument that justifies overly sensitive people who don't understand character writing. Just thought it was worth pointing out
It's Jar Jar Binks all over again. Guess what, nerds: Star Wars isn't for you! It's a children's franchise and that's why the characters seem silly to adults. Let it go and get some age appropriate interests, jeez.
>>64009863
>Star wars: the Force Awakens doesn't have a mary sue problem- Its critics do
What the fuck does this mean?
>>64013178
The patriarchy are trying to tear down strong womyn characters
>>64012200
Prove it.
>>64009863
>Our strong female character is being called a mary sue!
>Let's call a classic Star Wars character a mary sue and accuse those people of sexism instead of actually refuting the points they bring up!
>>64010105
Accepting abandonment.
>>64012884
Midichlorians have a always been cannon. Why do you think children of a force user inherit force sensitivity? It's a genetic trait. The Force doesn't choose shit.
>>64013122
Yeah but a misogynist character isn't a priori a bad character, unlike a Mary Sue. The term "Mary Sue" specifically refers to a certain kind of bad writing; bad because it's overly simplistic, unrealistic and sucks tension out of the narrative. Sluts and misogynists are real things that exist in the world and should therefore be represented in fiction when appropriate.
>>64010719
>Identifying pieces of something making you an engineer with a huge amount of expert knowledge.
>>64013294
Oh I definitely agree, just pointing out thats a common argument I hear
>People suddenly realized Luke is a Gary Stu...38 years after the releases of the ANH.
If it was so obvious Luke was always a Gary Stu, why do it take nearly 40 years for people to realize it?
>>64013632
Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the bait flow through you!
>>64011193
what a jab
>>64010972
If all the dumb frogposters on this board were half as thoughtful and rational as you it would be a much better place.
>>64011949
I will agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't like the Mary Sue label because it's sensationalist bullshit on both sides, but I did feel like she was too often the driving force of action. Even when she messes up she's usually the one to fix the mistake, as with the tentacle monsters on the freighter.
Definitely a bit too "don't need no help." And I don't want to get political but yeah, it probably had something to do with the current discussions. If she had been rescued one time, even if competent for the rest of the movie, feminists would have been livid. And you can tell by this line right here:
>The thing about Rey, and characters like her, is that she subverts the actual awful trope that is ruining everything: the female character who is badass until the final act of the movie. Most films, with a character like Rey, would have her be ridiculously competent and brilliant until the final 20 or 30 minutes of the film, at which point she suddenly becomes useless and Finn has to solve everything. This is a trope that I have seen in approximately seven billion movies: the super-awesome woman who becomes suddenly less awesome as the male hero takes control of his power.
I mean they're just idiots. That only happens in movies where the man is the protagonist regardless of his power. Rey is unquestionably the lead in TFA, so it would have been perfectly acceptable for her to have a few stumbling blocks while still being more competent than Luke.
>>64011542
Luke:
>why am I here again?
>>64011881
I like how under the typical characteristics, literally EVERY SINGLE ONE applies to Rey
>>64011193
>chin up, exposing throat
>"stance" is square on, exposing body
>hands low as fuck exposing jaw
>no sweat stains (low work rate)
>zero muscle mass
>slow, weak punches
>misses the right hook
>slack jawed the whole time
>resorts to kicking (instant disqualification)
>"spinning backfist"
>runs away and climbs wall instead (lack of focus)
I don't thinks she's even a boxer at all, this looks more like a one off "training session" for the cameras. Very disappointing.
>>64010043
He needed the bumbling sidekick to rescue him.
>>64009863
lel It's such an obviously shitty movie. Another reboot/remake with a feminist twist. They feel they have to defend it.
>>64009863
How much did Disney spend on online marketing for even the most vocal "feminist" sites to rally around such a terribly written female character?
I thought modern feminists loved to point out how men write half-assed 2D female characters and save the quality writing for male characters. These so-called feminists have all just performed an ideological U-turn for their corporate masters.
Mary Sue is a misnomer for aspies REEEING at the success they will never have
When you see someone post "Mary Sue" they are crying about their own shitty lives
>>64015906
>just performed an ideological U-turn
They perform those daily.
>>64012083
Because if it weren't for Han's intervention in ANH, Luke would have gotten killed. Kylo's wound isn't what keeps Rey from being killed, it was her use of the force. If she did not trust in the force at the last moment, Kylo probably would have continued dominating the duel.
>>64009863
To fix this Mary Sue Rey issue they could either:
1. Go back in time and reshoot some scenes in TFA. Make Rey escape by another way then mastering the Jedi Mind Trick. Have the final fight choreographed differently. Ren should have been more visibly hurt from the bowcaster. If he was barely limping forward, and Rey only won by hitting his wound or something, it would be much more believable.
2. Make Rey a mind-wiped Skywalker. It seriously would explain everything. It still isn't great storytelling to have a poorly written character explained in another film 2 years later, but it would satisfy me... eventually.
Obviously 2 is the only possibility (unless JJ wants to go full Lucas and start painting over his old work) The problem is he's painted himself in a corner. A version of the "Rey mindwiped padawan" theory HAS to be true now. Or her character in TFA will always be a poorly written Mary Sue.
