This movie really lacked a proper villain.
This faggot was introcuced in a great way. stopping the blaster and sensing that Finn is a traitor made him really powerful and awesome.
With each minute he became weaker. When he had to try hard to get the location of the map out of Poe's mind it was already questionable but okay, he did it.
But when he took of his mask and then lost the force duel with Rey... holy shit that was bad.
You can't just introduce your villain as a powerful next generation sith or something and reduce him to an idiot that assembled his own lightsaber.
Also Rey was far too powerful for having just discovered the force.
And as a result of the abscence of any proper jedi/sith who knew their shit, the battle between them was just boring and awkward.
>>64007779
who cares manchild
>>64007779
No one cares
>>64007779
Since you're incapable of discovering subtext in a film maybe you should read the book, where the fact that he becomes weaker the more he defies his true, good, nature is more clearly spelled out for you.
Kylo Ren is a better villain than Sheev
Fight me
Actually he's probably the best and most realistic villain ever created in Star Wars.
>almost loses against a nigger that never touched a lightsaber before
>>64007779
you really didnt understood jack shit about the first order OP
>>64007967
This. I fucking loved him.
>>64008032
after being shot in the dick and while going through the emotional torture of having killed his own father
https://strawpoll.me/6308335
https://strawpoll.me/6308335
https://strawpoll.me/6308335
ROCK THE VOTE
>>64008032
>finn fights a stormtrooper that uses a baton just as well as he uses the lightsaber
>stormtroopers obviously get melee training
>Ren was literally shot in the stomach by a bolt that one shot every other stormtrooper Chewie fired at
>WOW MOVIE IS SHIT
I'm just gonna stop browsing /tv/ people legitimately want to hate this movie.
>>64008116
>>64007878
educate me
In the film, you aren't told anything about him. You don't know the circumstances and why he was pulled to the dark side. As a result, when there is this bridge scene with han, you have no idea what he is going to do. No expectations. The he kills him. Wow. I don't know why he did that instead of changing back to the light side.
It's just pretty random.
>>64007967
>realistic villain in Star Wars
aren't villains in Star Wars all about the dark side making people do horrible things?
Whatss realistic about a guy doing those horrible things seemingly without ever having experienced something horrible.
The movie doesn't tell you what happened that made him evil
>Both bitches
>Both betray Luke and his Jedi academy
>Both absolutely insufferable characters
Coincidence?
>>64007779
>You can't just introduce your villain as a powerful next generation sith or something
but he was introduced as a skilled but whiny brat anon.
most criticism of kylo is because some viewers picture him as an ultimate badass, which he clearly isnt
>>64008994
He sees Vader as the ultimate representation of strength, and he sees himself as weak. He feels that his connection to the light side(his human emotions, his love for his family) are the root of his weakness so he tries to cut the ties to the light side by killing his father, which backfires.
He's still very much tempted to join Han(which for him would be embracing his weakness), but he feels he is beyond redemption for shooting up his school.
The scene hangs in the balance and is eventually decided by the star killer darkening the sun reminding Kylo the strength of the Order.
>>64007878
>he becomes weaker the more he defies his true, good, nature
just fuck my Dark Side up, senpai
>>64007967
He's a good character, but he isn't a threatening villain.
>>64008994
>aren't villains in Star Wars all about the dark side making people do horrible things?
no the Dark Side is a metaphor for evil being the quick and easy path.
you get to take a shortcut by ignoring the negative effects of your actions on other people and acting selfishly.
in other words it's about Evil Feels Good. hence the role of love in Anakin's fall, placing his own emotional well-being above the needs of the republic.
misunderstanding this is misunderstanding Star Wars.
WHERE MY HUX BROS AT?!
>>64009376
hux was a faggot, fighting with Ren over papa snoke's attention
>>64008994
>Whatss realistic about a guy doing those horrible things seemingly without ever having experienced something horrible.
Where did you learn that you need to have experienced some kind of a tragedy in order to become a terrible person? In movies?
>>64009284
>good character
isnt he like 30 years old? why does he still have teen angst issues
>>64009133
>he tries to cut the ties to the light side by killing his father, which backfires.
in the OT this would absolutely not backfire, but then in the OT it would have done a better job of making it clear that manipulation by the real bad guy was responsible for him being misguided.
it was a mistake not to focus more on Snoke if Kylo was not intended to live up to the bad guy tropes. changing the bad guy's motivation while copying the OT in other respects damaged the story.
>>64009376
his speech could have been great, but it was just another example of the movie misunderstanding what Star Wars villains are meant to embody.
>>64007779
Maybe the real villain - was all of us in the audience.
>>64009469
>in the OT this would absolutely not backfire
That would've been stupid. The point is that he can't ignore his nature, no matter how long he keeps his retarded mask on.
>>64009451
He feels conflicted over murdering his father that's not exactly the same as being angry your mom won't buy you a PS4
>>64009567
it is in this movie because we dont know why he wants to be such and edgy evil guy so bad
he just comes across as an emo teenager who kills his dad cos hes mad at something
>>64009567
>his nature
in this type of story, a character's actions are what reveal their nature, not the excuses for their actions
I think you're right that the movies will attempt to keep insisting that Kylo's "true nature" was not to kill his father, but that's what they wrote him doing so i dunno lol.
>>64009127
come on, you can't tell me that stopping a blaster charge(?) mid-air isn't bad ass
>>64007878
this couldve been handled a lot better in regards to the scene with Han Solo. JJ ahd the opportunity to make it clear, and it would have made the ensuing battle more dramatic. Instead the silence is ruined by Chewies blaster shot and we never get to see Kylo Ren's real reaction from killing his father.
Like Han Solo represents his major obstacle to being a sithlord, he still feels divided. and while its tough for him, he thinks killing han solo would result in him getting rid of the major obstacle, and it makes sense in a way. you kill your father, you no longer feel attached to him.
if JJ wants us to see him getting weaker as he tries to become a more powerful sith, then we should have seen it HERE, after killing his father. the move he thought would make him more powerful, and instead hes reduced to his knees. No need for a blaster shot to "weaken him up" for Rey, the emotional devastation is what throws him off his game.
it would have been nice, because we see this terrible deed juxtaposed to extreme emotional grief. And where Darth Vader was always cool under pressure we see Kylo Ren buckling. He was able to surpass Darth Vader in killing his blood, something Vader fell short of, but we see that this actually makes him weaker than Vader. While it might seem like the superior "sith" move, in reality Vader was stronger because his actions were a better reflection of his self. Kylo Ren attempts to silence his self and create a persona, and hes the weaker for it
I can't tell which is more emofag, crying over the fictional legacy of your dead grandpa or crying over a fictional character crying over shit.
>>64009127
I think people forget anger is part of the dark side. His actor is meh to me but his character potential skyrocketed by the end of the film. I doubt that he is going to turn back to the light now so he is probably going full on dark side. He needs to life siphon an entire village of ewoks...
>>64009316
ya and because Kylo Ren cant ignore the negative effects of his actions his constitution isnt suited to being a sith
the problem is that this isnt communicated at ALL in the film, and a good opportunity for it would have been when Rey was beating his ass up with the force while tied down. Have her see that his inability to be truly selfish and absorbed is keeping him back, and have her twist the dagger by mentioning it
then later when theyre fighting, have her constantly baiting him with words. a wonderful reversal of the lightsaber battle in V where its Vader trying to throw Luke off emotionally.
this way we dont have to believe that a lightsaber noob actually beat Kylo Ren, but instead she beat him by getting him further and further emotionally offbalance
>>64009796
Honestly it was clear that Kylo had no clue what he was doing, and that it was gonna take an emotional toll on him when he was talking to Han. He was just blindly trying to force himself to be Vader like he does in the rest of the movie without thinking it through.
>>64007779
He's gonna end up going to the light side because he is such a pussy. The real bad guy will show up in the next movie.
>>64007779
It's the Marvelization of movies. Movie writers don't care about making a strong villain anymore. You just need someone, anyone, to have the final fight with at the end.
>>64009922
how is that a good character?
that sounds like a totally shit character
he is basically a dumbass or a retard
>>64007779
you are a complete and utter faggot
>>64009922
the issue is that his conversation with Han is colored by the fact that hes being OBSERVED by Han. he kills him and we're not really sure how much of an internal emotional conflict it was, because when were finally going to get to see his reaction (unfiltered by potentially trying to deceive his father) its interrupted by a blaster shot and were right into another action scene
>>64007878
>he becomes weaker the more he defies his true, good, nature
I love that idea. I like you, anon. I really hope Kylo gets an interesting arc and doesn't just become a tank for Snoke next movie.
You're right but it's largely Rey's fault, not his. They also probably didn't play on him being trained by Luke as much as they should, or talk about the Knights of Ren. But hey, there's 2 more movies.
1. He was wounded when fighting against Finn and Rey. Usually those blaster shots kill you in one shot.
2. Throughout the film he is portrayed to be internally conflicted and there is literally exposition, a piece of dialogue he says about feeling the pull to the light side. Now combine that with the fact that just before the Finn & Rey fight, he killed his own father. Not only is Kylo wounded physically in that fight, he's emotionally and psychologically fucked up and unstable from what he just did to his dad. He isn't fully concentrated and Rey even taunts him because she senses that he's scared.
>>64009991
I like him a lot actually. You can see Kylo as:
A representation of schoolshooters(immature mentally-troubled young man who murders his classmates)
Of the fandom(mindlessly villain-worshipping Vader and basically intentionally ignoring the frail old man he was underneath the mask)
And millenials(comes short in comparison to an idealized view of the "greatest generation" and developes an inferiority complex over it)
He's great because his two motives are his ego and his morality, and they're on a collision course, that makes a hell of a lot more sense for a conflicted villain than muh Padme
What about when Ren can barely swing his lightsaber in the final battle. ITS A LIGHTSABER IT WEIGHS 2 FUCKONG LBS MAX
Lets be honest here, the guy has to compete with Vader both in story and by fanboy expectations. The way they went was probably a good thing and we might see him molded into a true monster as the story progresses. I hope he doesnt get a redemption arc.
>>64009902
>Kylo Ren cant ignore the negative effects of his actions his constitution isnt suited to being a sith
Neither did Anakin when he put Padme above the lives of everyone in the republic, yet he became a sith.
I think even Yoda explains in the PT how anger is only the first step to the dark side or something
>>64010254
Fear is the first step
>“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
>>64010399
Can't hate lead to anger?
And suffering lead to hate?
Fear to anger and anger to fear don't make sense in either direction.
>>64010399
>>64010436
>>64010436
He was basically predicting Anakin's future
Fear > Padme will die
Anger > at the jedi council and his mentor obi wan
Hate > first at obi-wan and later himself when his son rejects him
and so on
>>64007779
because they're going to switch sides by the end
I just want to know why Leia and Han named him after Kenobi, they barely knew the guy.
>>64010237
>school shooters
>fandom
>millenials
>i like all these things
>>64010254
Anakin totally ignores the negatives of his actions
He even blames kenobi for the death of pad me...
>>64007779
>With each minute he became weaker.
You understand this was the point of his character, right? He's still being tugged on by the Light Side of the force due to some kind of residual love left over for Leia and Han.
>>64010680
Yes, that's my point
>>64010730
I said Kyle ren can't ignore the negatives of his actions
Then you said neither could anakin
I say: no, anakin did
You say: that was my point
?
>>64010617
>Han and Leia can't agree on a name for their son
>Luke says "what about Ben?"
>They decide that's good enough and go with it
He did technically help save Leia's life so whatever. This is a stupid thing to complain about.
>>64010577
I'd actually like this if done right.
He is actually the protagonist
Rey is the mary sue antagonist
Deal with it
>>64007779
>tempted by the light
>better at the force when calm, worse when angry
It's almost like they're trying to tell you something.
Then you have Rey. The force comes really easily to her and she learns techniques way too quickly.
Now tie both of those into some ESB dialogue.
>Is the dark side stronger?
>No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
>But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
>You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive.
Even AotC has something about being too good at the force too quickly.
>The boy has exceptional skills.
>But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well arrogant.
>Yes. Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are.
He wasn't supposed to be as good as Vader. Snoke has a line about finishing his training, he's going to get more powerful as Rey does. You know, until they switch sides.
>>64009092
This was the first and only Star Wars game that actually gave me a compelling reason to turn to the dark side.I failed Kyle.
>>64007779
He would have been a fine villain if they at least made him capable of success maybe like 50% of the time? I mean, the dude failed at pretty much everything he did. That's why he was a shitty villain.
>>64007779
Did you pay attention to the movie at all you fucking imbecile?
I bet you sat through it with a blindfold on and your finger up your ass.
>>64011537
He's supposed to be shitty...
>movie has to have a strong, intimidating villain to be compelling
You are everything that's wrong with cinema
>>64007779
WAAAAAAAAAH they did something else with the villain this time.
>>64010248
Based on the way his handles and sparks it's probably a bit weightier than a regular lightsaber.
>>64011945
Yah, I got that. That's why he's not a good villain.
>>64011537
I'd be curious to see an actual tally, off the top Off my head:
Succeds at:
Capturing Poe
Extracting info from him
Capturing Rey
Killing Han
0.5 Beating Finn
Fails at:
Get the map over the course of the movie
Extracting info from Rey
Beating Rey
0.5 Taking an injury from Finn
4.5 : 3.5
Pretty close actually. Honestly his biggest problem is that Rey made him(and everyone else in the movie) look bad, and that the movie intentionally treated him like a kid
>>64011973
Solid criticism. Well thought out, brilliantly written.
>>64007923
I agree
>>64007779
Rey made pretty much everyone in the movie look like a chump. Finn looked like a clown next to her. Han became a nice old grandpa. And Kylo ended up not being the least bit threatening and completely useless as a villain.
All because they had to center the movie around a character who's perfect in every way and succeeds in everything.
IMO other than making Rey not a Mary Sue, they should've also gone much easier on the whole inner turmoil thing with Kylo. Rather than make him an emo teenager, it should've been much more subtle. A crack in the facade here and there. And they should've hired a handsome actor, Adam Driver's hideous.
so does anyone else agree with the darth snape theory from reddit?
>infiltrates first order
>has to avoid the light side
>han lets him kill him so snoke trusts him
>all of this probably at luke's request so he can eventually kill snoke
>>64010655
>psychotic murderous clowns
>genocide robot man
>super powered asshole
>I like these things
>>64009796
This is a good observation
>>64012870
But that's why you're wrong. It's pretty simple.
>>64009796
Did you notice how Kylo does better with the force when calm or easily beating an opponent but when he's pissed off or facing the slightest challenge he fucks up?
>>64007779
Why does he keep being pulled to the light? Does the force see him as a hero?
