Just finished watching the prequels finally. Never did a full run through them. There's something that bothered me. Yoda tells Anakin that he should go let go of the fear of losing someone and to remove his attachments to what he loves. Obviously, this is a monk's way of thinking and Anakin can't accept that with him having a secret marriage with a woman. The movies tried to make this a grey area where there was no right or wrong answer. Anakin was right to have feelings and Yoda was right about not being consumed by your hatred and jealousy.
>sadness leads to anger. Anger leads to hate.
The question is, was Yoda, and the Jedi in general, really right? And what's to say that a jedi cannot embrace both halves of this type of life? I assume the future episodes are going to elaborate that both the light and dark sides are necessary for a complete jedi, and is probably why Luke went into hermit mode so he can rediscover what it truly means to be a jedi. Just my thoughts. Could be wrong.
>>63996860
In the OT both Yoda and Obi-Wan tell Luke that he has to kill his father, but it's Luke's ultimate refusal to do so that saves his father and brings balance to the force. Plus every single protagonist of Star Wars films are "too old" to be "properly trained" (this includes fucking 9 year-old Anakin).
So yeah, the jedi were pretty much wrong. It'd be interesting if the new trilogy went the route of both sides being necessary.
>>63996860
yoda was a fucking warmongering cryptic idiot in the prequels thanks to lucas.
Are you asking where the middle ground is?
>>63996958
Yeah I find it odd that the jedi were normally like "never follow your feelings," but then maybe Yoda and obi wan learned over the years that the truth to it all is that sometimes you have to do something, even if it goes against your order. Anakin mentioned this when he was talking with Obi wan when he was asking him to spy on Palpatine. He basically asked Anakin to be a secret agent who acted outside of the jedi's normal protocol, which was very contradicting.
It was more that Yoda was aware of what was going on, Yoda isn't stupid, if he can fill thousands of Jedi being killed across the Galaxy, I'm sure he could piece together Anakin and Padme and the meaning of his vision.
Visions come true because one causes it to come true, he was basically trying to warn him not to do anything stupid. If Anakin had let go and learned not to worry so much about it then Padme would still be alive, Sheev would have failed, and Vader never would have existed.
So basically Anakin has some form of isolation complex?
>>63997068
>If Anakin had let go and learned not to worry so much about it then Padme would still be alive, Sheev would have failed, and Vader never would have existed.
That's the point of the "what if." In the end, we knew how this would come to be, so the prequels were mostly just a depressing trip to what was to come.
>>63997115
Sadly yes, but it fit, considering by their view point, it's technically the present to them.
Either way the Jedi and Sith are wrong countless times.
George offers no answers folks
the whole no love no marrige no dynasties crap is so nonsense and is indicative of the hubris and retardation of the prequel-OT-NT jedi order.
the EU got this right - it isnt an issue at all in the EU. then the high council comes along and fucks everyones shit up because they dont want powerful dynasties usurping their power.
shame its not canon anymore. The jedi would have died out without jedi-jedi copulation
>>63997342
in other words, Anakins fall was entirely the fault of those cunts in the high council, obi wan included
>>63996860
>Only the Sith deal in absolutes
Oh look the prequel dialogue was fucking awful
>>63996860
>And what's to say that a jedi cannot embrace both halves of this type of life?
Because with the force involved you get consumed by them and go evil.
With great power comes great responsibility and whatnot.
Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force
Nothing in there about 'no attachments' 'no children' 'no marriage'.
>>63997373
Anakin was a young foolish kid. He was a teenager who had far too much power and thus too much arrogance. I cannot fault him for being a anarchy little kid, so I disagree that his fall was the fault of the council. It was also Darth sidious's fault. Both sides manipulated him, which was the point of the prequels. Obi wan, in truth, was just as troubled as Anakin, except he was old enough to not let it disturb him. Obi wan had just as much emotions as Anakin, due to their attachment to one another, so I have a feeling even he knew that the jedi council shouldnt have been a thing.
>>63997413
So doesnt that mean that the jedi make this a rule because it takes an exceptional person to be responsible with this power without corruption? Seems like a good way to make the perfect Superman jedi into the story one day.
>>63997423
Emotion and death are the key factors in the attachment line.
there are no 'future episodes', SW died with lucas unless youre a reddit tier person
>>63997438
if someone (Obi Wan!!) had just taken Anakin aside and told him it was ok to be with padme and whatnot he probably wouldnt have sided with palpatine. Palpatine gave him an out that he wouldnt have needed had the council been more pragmatic and less up their own arses, but I get your point, makes sense but still, I expect more common sense from the wisest 12 beings in the order
>>63997502
It was Anakin's fault for leaving Obi wan out of the loop of things, anyway. So he had his own share in this. In the end, Obi wan cared more about Anakin than some jedi rules, as much as he didn't want to admit it.
>>63997342
youre retarded
>>63997373
not really. If you think about it, Yoda and Obi-wan obviously knew about Anakin and Padme and Im sure they went with it, just as they surely did with other jedis (its really hard to believe none of them tried to have a relationship) and yet Anakin had those visions and became obsessed with them and with protecting Padne at all costs. That would have happened even with permission to get married
The jedi council are the very definition of corrupt: a secretive group of 12 dindus who rule the order with an iron fist, proclaiming their own interpretation of the extremely basic jedi code, and choose their own members without a vote, due process or taking into account the views of the rest of the 000's in the order. thyt deserved to be wiped out
>>63997536
Hell even Obi-Wan himself during the Clone Wars admits he would have left the Jedi Order had Satine mentioned she loved him sooner (back when he was a Padawan under Qui-Gon) and Anakin is literally in the scene a min. later.
>>63997605
I know Star Wars is just a thriller movie with a hero adventure and a sci fi plot that isn't meant to be taken seriously, but I do find entertainment in wondering if anyone has ever tackled what the Force is and whether the light side or dark side are either at all, but in fact just different spectrums that use its power in various ways. Light sides tend to be more peaceful, so their usage of it isn't as aggressive as the dark side. Reminds me of Avatar the last airbender where you get different style usages of each element based entirely on the person using them. You got your good uses (healing and non lethal force) and your evil uses (intentional killing moves).
>>63997580
but had everyone been open, honest and most of all understanding (im looking at yoda and windu here) he would have turned to the order for help (or obi wan) rather than be manipulated into helping sheev. He had no choice.. he even has a line where he says he so conflicted (iirc) because of padme vs jedi teachings. the teachings are wrong
>>63997683
Qui-Gon does, he just believes in the living Force.
You can assume Kreia in KotOR 2 does too, but her ideals still lean more towards the Dark Side than any amount of real gray area.
>>63997688
Even before the fight of Windu and Sheev, Anakin was still not sure he wanted to turn to the dark side. I felt if Windu had let him join them in taking down Sheev, it would have given them a sliver of hope in keeping Anakin sane. But I have a feeling that even if Sheev had died, Anakin would be left with a burning question of "what if" and feel regretful. It would have just made him become a dangerous person regardless.
>>63997736
The issue was more that Windu wanted to cut down Palpatine instead of arrest him. Remember Anakin already had an internal conflict when Palpatine told him to cut down Dooku and that "It wasn't the Jedi way".
>>63997942
Well, Anakin did say he wanted to see Palpatine stand by trial and not to be killed. In essence, he was still following what the jedi told him, but here was a master doing something outside what he taught to others, and that probably made Anakin realize how contradicting the council and their rules really were. You can't blame him. If I was in that situation, I may have done the same. Not exactly have Windu killed, though, too. But Windu was very powerful and Anakin hadn't caught him off guard, neither of them would have been able to subdue him.
>>63996860
"a sith only deals with absolutes"
-yoda
"do or do not there is no try"
-yoda
>
>>63997683
I take it as (in the OT, at least) a Jedi/Sith must open himself up to the Force, so using the Dark Side means more "dark" Force into your body/soul/mind. Like Ben literally becoming One with the Force by letting hislef be killed by Vader. Or Luke feeling the remote thingy by letting the Force flow through him.
The more you sude the dark part of the Force, the more evil you become. It taints everything you are, how you think, how you view things, people, and events.
I think Lucas said (before the PT) that the DS was a corruption of the Force. The Force itself is part of nature, the DS is man-made. Or something.
>>63997995
I don't disagree, I'd probably have blocked Mace's lightsaber as opposed to cutting his hands off, but either way the point stands.
