Is "Mary Sue" the new /tv/ buzzword?
Seems a few rankled boys are getting a stiffy over this and are in the process of memefication.
>>63985923
that's pretty glib tbH
Rey honestly might have gotten too powerful too quickly and is good at a lot of things, but fuck, it was nice seeing the hero win because she just believed in the Force and it enabled her to do great things
after the midichlorian power level bullshit of the prequels it was exactly what the franchise needed
>>63986001
>it was exactly what the franchise needed
I feel some MRAs are getting triggered right now.
>>63985923
I put Rey into the Mary Sue Litmus Test and (assuming she's Luke's daughter) I got a score of 163. She wasn't too bad of a character and she had potential, but they made her strong too fast, and she never seems to fail at anything, especially after getting her force powers. In contrast, Luke failed at almost everything in the first movie, which is what made his successful Death Star run all the more impactful.
yes, it's the new c'uck and the aspies and tourettes cases of /tv will be spamming it until it gets wordfiltered
>inb4 its been used here before in extremely small doses.
>>63986199
Do you think that /tv/ tends to attract more than its fair share of retards compared to other boards on 4chan?
Even the fruitcakes of /r9k/ seem sound of mind compared to some on here.
>>63986186
Luke was conflicted, Ren was conflicted, Vader was conflicted. Rey was for the most part pure, she wasnt seeking power or adventure so the light side flowed naturally through her.
This movie borrowed as much from KOTOR as it did the original trilogy, and if you were a "grey" jedi you were weak with the force and would get your ass handed to you during the big bad fights.
It's a much better explaination for the force than midiclorians and jedi kindergarden.
>>63986253
yes. My other boards are /out/ /trv/ /his/ and /ck/ occasionally I'll browse /sci/ or /biz/ If I want to feel dumb. There board culture is wildly different. (although /ck/ is slipping)
ya, /tv/ is filled with big tards, for me.
>>63986253
/tv/ is full of children, star wars proved it.
>Be a slave on a desert planet
>Somehow acquire an upper middle class north London accent
Even her accent is Mary-Sue
>>63986001
Your glib is showing.
>>63986186
>xe
>>63986283
Then why does Vader say that "This Force is strong with this one" during the trench run? And I don't remember having less force abilities in Kotor based on alignment. Sure, some of the explicitly aligned powers such as lighting and healing were harder to use, but not the neutral stuff like mind reading and telekinesis. This explanation is especially odd when considering the grey Jedi in Kotor. Jolee Bindo wasn't weak in the force, in fact, his class was a Jedi consular. In the sequel, Kreia, another grey Jedi consular, was able to mind rape almost every single cast member, including other force users. She even did it to Atton, someone with built in defenses against the Force. I don't know if Kotor worked that way for conflicted grey Jedi.
Plus, that explanation doesn't make for a very interesting character, to have no inner conflict, and it makes Rey lean towards Mary Sue even more.
>>63985923
SHES A BULLSHIT CHARACTER
AT LEAST LUKE TRAINED WITH THAT LITTLE GREEN FUCKER ON HIS TRAINING PLANET FOR A WHILE
YOU NEED LIKE A ROCKY TRAINING MONTAGE OR SOMETHING, JJ
HOW DID THAT BITCH EVEN KNOW SHE COULD JEDI MIND TRICK A STORMTROOPER
HOW WAS EVERYONE A TOP TIER SWORDSMAN(WOMAN!! SHITLORD) WITH ZERO TRAINING, EASILY MATCHING DARTH ADAM DIVER WHO PRESUMABLY HAS BEEN TRAINING WITH HIS KKK CROSS SABER FOR A LONG TIME
>>63986612
Trust me, I know
>>63985923
i want mary sue to pratice her force on my balls
>>63986666
Why must the character have an inner conflict anyway?
>>63986745
me 2 m8, me 2
>>63985923
she was great. whole flick was real good.
>>63986666
cant argue with those quads. admittedly I never played with those charecters. or never built them up.
I personally accept the KOTOR explanation of the force. It's much more satisfying than the prequils.
If memory serves Jodee was once a light jedi who got jaded, and Kreia was a sith lord trying to destroy the force forever and used her powers of manipulation on others based on their allignment.
>>63986001
Man I couldn't agree more, the thing I enjoyed the most about this movie was that it brought back some more mysticism to the force as opposed to the fucking midichlorians
>valid criticism is somehow a meme
I know this is bait, but at least try and make sense.
>>63986828
Kreia was a sith lord, as in used to be
She also used to be a master jedi
In the end she was just an old woman that wanted to end the thing she hated most, the force
I can kind of forgive her for beating Kylo. He was already injured and had fought Finn already plus he wasn't fully trained yet. He might not have been in the right state of mind during the fight either.
The other things she does in the movie made me shake my head, it felt like pandering. But I guess I can see why JJ did it, could you imagine how negative the feedback would be in the current political climate if he made Rey fail multiple times in the movie and she needed saving?
They'd call him a sexist.
>>63985923
I've tried to point out that a "Mary Sue" is an author self-insert into the story, but no one listens.
Everyone seems to insist that if the character does no wrong, then it's a Mary Sue.
Arguably, it was a little tiresome seeing her constantly succeed at everything.
>>63987037
A Mary Sue or, in case of a male, Gary Stu or Marty Stu is an idealized fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities. Often but not necessarily this character is recognized as an author insert and/or wish-fulfillment.[1]
>>63985923
Mary Sue is a dangerous term to use in this context.
But I think the problem is is how much she seems to be responsible for everything important and is implausibly talented.
Like with Luke, you could see he was dependent to an extent on his companions. Was he talented? Sure but everybody got a chance to flex their muscles, and even for an ace pilot he still went in with a squadron and only won the day thanks to Han's last minute intervention, and a last second manifestation of Force psychic shenanigans after spending the entire film practicing it.
Finn basically only exists to make Rey look good and mentally she's always on par with Han Solo, not to mention every time she's in a scene she's almost always doing the heavy lifting. That is the textbook-definition Mary Sue trait above all else.
>>63987119
so the entire Hunger Games series?
>>63986253
/tv/ is full of tourists right now.
>>63987174
The entire Young Adult genre.
>>63987174
I could have answered you had I ever watched that garbage but alas, it is not so
>>63986001
No it wasn't, it was fucking stupid.
Just because midichlorian power level shit is dumb doesn't make ass pull deus ex machina shit any less dumb.
Luke didn't confront Vader until Empire and he got his ass handed to him. Rey should have gotten her ass handed to her, or not confronted Kylo at all yet.
>>63986253
Nah, it's just fast boards in general. It's just that all of the big boards besides /a/ tend to suffer because their subject is so broad and mainstream. I mean, television and film? Who the fuck doesn't watch TV shows and movies?
>>63987219
its based on a book that was recently written where a little teen girl defies the odds and wins
>>63987037
There isn't one clear definition of what a Mary Sue/Gary Stu is. Rey fits both the descriptions of the Infallible Character and the Power Fantasy.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
>>63987229
she might have gotten her ass handed to her a few times growing up the the desert ghetto as a scavenger
>new
>>63987255
I don't watch any of that electric jew shit
I'm just here to shitpost about star wars
Rey and Finn's triumph over Kylo-Ren actually makes perfect sense, if you have half a brain and pay attention to the movie and use common sense.
The movie goes out of its way to highlight how powerful Chewie's Bowcaster is. Han Solo blows up a Stormtrooper with it. From this, we know that the Bowcaster is basically the equivalent of a high-caliber sniper rifle. One that tore into Kylo Ren's armor and created a puncturing, bleeding wound.
From the time from when they ran away from the reactor to the outskirts of the forest, Kylo Ren was BLEEDING THE ENTIRE TIME. He had probably already lost a couple of pints of blood by the time he fought with Finn. Couple this with the fact that he was obviously shaken up by having just killed his father (wracked with uncertainty and emotion he pretends he doesn't have, but does), he was in nowhere near the prime condition. He was falling apart, both physically and mentally. Then Finn getting the lucky strike on his shoulder further confounded things, as it was a wound on the shoulder that controlled his dominant sword-hand.
He was physically, emotionally, and psychologically way out of the fight. By the time Rey 'awakened' and started fighting him, he was already fatigued by battle and blood loss, with multiple painful wounds. And an obvious wreck of uncontrolled emotions.
It isn't a stretch of the imagination that he would be bested in this state.
>>63986689
>AT LEAST LUKE TRAINED WITH THAT LITTLE GREEN FUCKER ON HIS TRAINING PLANET FOR A WHILE
Obi Wan also trained him in the brief period they were together, and you don't need EU shit to assume he trained himself between A New Hope and Empire.
>>63986186
>luke failed at everything in the first movie
wat
it took him like 10 seconds of using-the-force for him to learn how to wield his sabre to deflect bolts intuitively/blindly
shits pretty fast
also i dunno how you go from civilian starpilot to being a military ace and one of the sole survivors of their raid, even outliving his old buddy from tatooine that died like a bitch movie extra
>>63987229
Kylo Ren is not Vader, you dumb fuck. Vader was swag, in full command of his faculties despite his disabilities, and people both feared and respected him.
Kylo Ren is a scared little fag who pretends he's Darth Vader because he can't deal with his insecurity. He doesn't understand the Force, and he hasn't received proper training. People may fear Ren because he's a nutjob, but they don't respect him.
Rey triumphed over the pussy acting like he was hot shit because he was related to Vader (midichlorians) because she believed in the true nature of the force
>>63987269
>people on /tv/ are unironically linking to tv-tropes
I'll give hiroshimoot all my data if he puts /tv/ out of its misery.
>>63987324
That was the force controlling him, not him controlling the force. We never directly see that until ESB
>>63986102
well meme'd my friend
>>63987308
actually reminds me of the plot in Splinter of the Mind's Eye
>>63987308
Sure but that doesn't really excuse all the other shit Rey gets up to that don't involve an injured and exhausted psycho.
>>63987308
But you forgot all the other instances where Rey is pictured as an infallible, overpowered character when compared to other force users in the franchise.
>>63987324
>>63987376
why is her milky white calf and upper arms exposed?
Wait until these aspies find TV Tropes
You will be hearing every ridiculous fucking "trope" on this board soon enough
>>63987338
i googled the term and it had the most thorough explanation
u mad, cuckboy?
>>63987416
Because designing clothes seems to be hard
Notice how that one random strip of cloth wraps around her left calf too
>>63987472
what does rey's milky exposed right calf taste like when you lick it?
>>63987376
>Millunniom Falcon
>Millunniom
At least glance at your shit before you post it.
>>63987442
Fuck off tourist.
>>63987308
also mention Kylo absolutely rekts Finn after stopping toying with him and puts him literally on his death bed.
>intimating and toying with him whilst bleeding out
>because of this "I'm an invincible dark side" attitude, Finn gets a lucky shot.
>Kylo then, in a few swipes, slices Finn up.
![steve-buscemi-30-rock[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qT7LORx.jpg "steve-buscemi-30-rock[1].jpg")
>>63987527
there's literally nothing wrong with TVT, Reddit
>>63987523
LE MILLENOM GIRL
>>63987523
I didn't make it
Do you have another comeback in store or are we done here?
>>63987376
stop posting this wrong autistic image that some fat cunt made
>>63986186
I dont understand people who want heroes to be hyper-skilled and invincible from the outset of the story. There's no room to grow, any journey the character takes will be hollow, any peril the character is in will be fake. I would much rather have a coward who's fear costs peoples lives or a headstrong fighter who gets the crap beaten out of them the first time they encounter the big bad. At least then they made mistakes, there is something for them to undergo on a personal level outside of the plot.
What is even the struggle for a character like this? "Oh whelp guess I have to beat the bad guys hyuk hyuk hyuk." There's nothing personal or unique to the character since beating the bad guys is literally everyone's fucking goal in the story.
I feel bad for the 11 people out there who actually want a normal, fleshed out, human female lead character and have to put up with the likes of Rey and whats-her-name from the Hungry Games. It must be so patronizing.
>>63987611
sup virgin
>>63987603
le millenom girl
>>63987607
Care to explain why it's wrong, friend?
>>63987604
How about you don't try to make points with shitty images that make you look like an idiot?
I bet Rey could stop the Sheev Spin without having the high ground
>>63987683
Damn all this refutation
I'm being BTFO there
>>63987370
The only part I thought was bullshit was how she did a Jedi Mind Trick without any training. The other things, though? They're at least established as being a part of her character.
>>Rey sneaks through The First Order Star Ship without being detected.
Makes sense, considering the first scene we're introduced to her in has her sneaking through the ruins of an old Imperial Star Destroyer. She's spent her entire life scavenging through ships. It makes sense that she'd know how to sneak through a First Order one.
>>Rey pilots the Millenium Falcon
Her scavving background would give her legitimate knowledge of how old ass ships like the Millenium Falcon would work. She knows how to operate her own land speeder.
Luke only knew how to fly around on his T-16 Skyhopper, and be buy the premise that this is enough knowledge for him to know how to pilot an X-Wing.
Why is it so hard to imagine that a girl who's entire life style is centered around studying, going through, and scrapping old ass ships wouldn't be able to pilot said old ass ship in a pinch?
>>63987611
"but muh strong female lead"
>>63987677
maybe you should go ask your pals over at /r/movies
She was cool on Jakku as a scavenger and Finn was cool as a sheltered stormtrooper, but then they both left and became totally normal people instantly.
They should both be fucking weirdos.
>>63987750
>Makes sense, considering the first scene we're introduced to her in has her sneaking through the ruins of an old Imperial Star Destroyer.
Yes I hear it is very hard to sneak through abandoned ships in a desolate location
>>63987749
Nice argument cucklord.
>>63987554
This is a good mention too. I think that Kylo was fucking around with Finn because he needed an outlet for his emotions. Again, this is a major character flaw of Kylo. He wanted to thrash Finn about and kill him slowly, like he did in the other scenes before where he thrashed random tech consoles.
>>63987670
le millenom girl
>>63987764
>>63987845
Top kek all this denial
>>63987645
Sup retard
>>63987891
>implying ive even seen or give a shit about star wars
You still used a shit quality image queerbait, and all this projection won't change that.
>>63986689
>zero training
Is this a meme?
Boyes was trained to be a soldier since birth. They even made a point of showing that Storm Troopers had sword-style weapons.
>>63987362
> the Force did it for him
wew
If this is your defense then the Force used Rey too. The Force is Star Wars' real Mary Sue for all 9 eps.
>>63987965
lmao
Cry more bitch nigger
>>63988052
>>63987862
he was toying with him the same as vader on bespin. Like a little kid burning ants with a magnifying glass.
Also, is it that big a stretch to think that Rey is a fighter from living in the harsh Jakku environment, a mechanic from being a scavenger of spare parts, and a good pilot in a world where space travel is like driving a car?
>>63988038
at last you truly see
>>63988090
Its never going to catch on faggot. NEVER.
>>63988090
Harm yourself
>>63987677
You are le Fatto Cunto!
>>63988110
piloting a starship ain't like dusting crops, boy
>>63985923
>Is "Mary Sue" the new /tv/ buzzword?
It's been around for a long time, welcome.
>>63988110
Except she doesn't have a fucking car, she's a poor scavenger sucking dick for rations in some desert shithole
>>63988177
No it hasn't you fucking homo
>>63988147
touche
>>63987229
>Just because midichlorian power level shit is dumb doesn't make ass pull deus ex machina shit any less dumb.
wtf are you even talking about idiot
>>63988177
You must be new here. Have you arrived from reddit?
>>63988205
Mary Sue is like forty years old
literally as old as bad ST fanfiction
>>63985923
Mary Sue is an old term you idiot.
Go be triggered somewhere else you dumb star wars tourist.
>>63988205
Holy shit. How new are you to this fucking planet?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
1973 is when it first appeared.
>>63987750
>>63987750
>Makes sense, considering the first scene we're introduced to her in has her sneaking through the ruins of an old Imperial Star Destroyer.
Yes, because sneaking through an unmanned, destroyed ship is the same as going through one of the most heavily guarded base of the galaxy. I guess the First Order conveniently forgot what cameras are to simplify Marey Sue's hijinks.
>Why is it so hard to imagine that a girl who's entire life style is centered around studying, going through, and scrapping old ass ships wouldn't be able to pilot said old ass ship in a pinch?
Because that's the difference between coding and scrapping a computer for parts you nitwit. Piloting and scavenging are two completely. different. skills. You can't improvise one off of the other.
>>63988252
best scene in ANH is where they blast all the cameras in the detention block
>>63987324
He deflected some bolts on a training droid, he never tried to deflect blaster bolts in a combat situation in ANH. Some one surviving in a battle isn't that unbelievable either, war is random and less skilled people can survive while better pilots are killed by stray shots, not to mention he would have died in the trench if it weren't for Han.
>>63988247
Literally only appeared as a meme on /tv/ four days ago.
>>63988110
>Also, is it that big a stretch to think that Rey is a fighter from living in the harsh Jakku environment, a mechanic from being a scavenger of spare parts, and a good pilot in a world where space travel is like driving a car?
Not really. But it is a stretch to have her beat a very dangerous trained knight (Literally known as the Jedi Killer) considering her complete lack of training. Just as it is too much to pretend scavenging in big ships will make you an ace mechanic or ace pilot, especially when the ship in question is the Millenium, as it is notorious for its strange design and handling.
could rey give you a coy look while all sweaty and dirty after you said something sexist towards her and then she's secretly squeezing your testicles with her mind, then as others are looking, not knowing, she starts giving you a sexy puppy dog look saying "aww whats wrong?"
all while the pressure of milky white pure clean feet standing on your testicles with a hard surface on the other side, no where to go, that pain we've all felt when kicked there except its not going away
>>63988223
>>63988236
>>63988245
Spotted the tourists. That word was rarely used up until TFE.
>>63988368
spotted the tourist
>>63988368
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/text/Mary%20Sue/end/2015-10-01/
it's an accepted term in modern film criticism
maybe its usage has increased because there is a literal actual Mary Sue in the biggest film release of the decade
>>63988420
>>63988430
>>>/reddit/
>>63988420
Probably it's true for the subreddit you came from.
>>63988420
kill you are self
>>63988454
IF YOU ARE A FEMALE MAIN CHARACTER IN A BLOCKBUSTER MOVIE THAT FILLS A ROLE THAT A MALE CHARACTER WOULD USUALLY INHABIT YOU ARE A MARY SUE.
THIS IS NON NEGOTIABLE.
>>63988368
It used to be used a lot on /co/, especially in regards to webcomic characters that were shameless author self-inserts. Rayne on LICD was a chief offender
The shoe fits fairly well on TFA. Not so much as a self insert, but as a supremely flawless and instantly beloved character by everyone she meets. It makes her dull as dishwater.
>>63988454
So it's only become a meme in the last four days, like I fucking just said, you cretinous fat shit.
>all these newfag redditors saying "mary sue" was never used on /tv/ before star wars
this board is a literal cringe factory (but thank you, it's helping stay off the internet in general for longer periods)
>>63988489
This is /tv/, not /co/, you gypsy bastard.
>>63987808
>>Spend an entire life going through the nooks, crannies, secret compartments and maintenance corridors of Imperial ships.
>>Somehow it's impossible for a character to use this knowledge to aid them in sneaking through an actual star ship of that's basically just an upgraded model of it.
>>63988502
It's not a meme when it's the objective truth.
You can't deflect valid criticism by calling it a meme.
>>63988520
Probably just shitposting like >>63988488
I refuse to believe anyone can be this retarded
>>63988558
You are le mememan
>>63988469
>>63988481
>>63988485
>>63988469
Spotted the big guy shitposters. If you're so /tv/ go fap to underage feet you faggots.
>>63988454
>it's an accepted term in modern film criticism
Since when?
>>63988615
>>>/reddit/
>new buzzword
Pretty sure people have been using it plenty
Before there was no vicious defense in reaction
>>63988642
since movie plots became fanfiction-tier derivative garbage
>>63988682
>i don't know what a buzzword is
>>63988643
>tourettes
>>63985923
we dont mind chicks in star wars.
hell most of us like the chicks in Clone Wars and the prequels.
but then again, those were characters with flaws and failures and arcs.
not mary sues by the LITERAL DEFINITION.
hell if Darth Talon was in this, we'd all have jerked off to her a dozen times.
What's up with this influx of TFA and Rey defenders?
waifu shitters or Disney shills?
>>63988744
>willy watcher
>>63988735
It's people trying to make it into a buzzword
It's been two days
>>63988759
>chicks in the prequels
Hershlag and Hershlag's dopplegangers?
>>63988759
>we
>>63985923
>mechanic
>pilot
>good fighter
>attractive
>knows multiple languages
definitely mary sue
>>63986747
If a character doesn't have inner conflict then that character should be undergoing hardships and challenges to make the story interesting. A challenge is not struggling in a fight to win anyways at the end, but to lose the fight and understand why. If Luke had beaten Vader and killed him Vader wouldn't have been able to save Luke later.
>>63989038
>>attractive
this meme needs to end
>>63989038
You forgot
>charismatic (people like her)
>perfectly stable mentally
>innate jedi (doesn't even need any training)
>>63988899
Well mostly from the tv show, but i digress
aalaya secura
shak ti
Bariss and her Master
Ahsoka
Aurora Siing
Ventriss
ect
>>63989038
i can give her Mechanic and being able to work a short range craft or speeder and maby soem staff fighting for self defense, but working the entire Falcon, bypassing the pump, instantly being skilled with a blaster
(let it be known handguns are not just point an click, they take practice to hit anything past 10 yards accurately, hell if your THUMB isnt adjusted right your shot can fly off a solid foot, MABY if she was handed a rifle or shotgun like weapon)
THats some horse shit.
and i'll give her knowledge in TWO languages at best.
>>63989038
WHAT VIDEOGAME IS THIS
>>63988615
Hola, Reddit
>>63987308
makes sense
>>63989192
>i'll give her knowledge in TWO languages at best.
she was able to communicate with the thief who was trying to steal the android and she was able to communicate with the android. she knows at least 3 languages.
>>63989278
yeah, how did she know that droid language?
and why DID she help BB8?
>>63989278
in the previous films, the humans needed c-3po to understand r2d2. she speaks android
>>63987416
jj loves armpits
>>63989278
She knows basic so make that 4
>>63989455
GOOGLE MARKETING, SUBLIMINAL PRODUCT PLACEMENT
SHE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO CRACK APKS, LEET SMALI SKILLS
#GURLCODERS
>>63988247
>Christine Scodari, a researcher in media studies from gender perspective, noticed a tendency within slash fandom to label major canon female characters (eg. Nyota Uhura in the Star Trek 2009 film reboot) as "Mary Sues" because the slash fans "begrudged" how the development of the female character takes away screen time from slashable male characters.[14]
Wait, so even chick don't want to see female characters on the screen cause that takes time away from fapable males? Then why the fuck are they continuously losing their shit at movies with too many males?
>>63985923
>there are people on /tv/ RIGHT NOW that think mary sue is a flavor of the month buzzword
I want the normies to fuck off and die please.
>>63989851
I think Scodari might be a bit biased.
Who CARES about Rey being a Mary Sue?
It's only been ONE movie!!!
There's plenty of room for the character to show her faults.
Goddamn, it's like you all have to find something to yell about.
>>63990088
everyone knew as soon as the main protag was a gril what it would be
>muh we can do it too!
>>63990126
So you're saying if it was a guy, there'd be no problem?
Not trying to be a sjw or sexist. Legitimate question.
>>63990088
if she's already beaten the main bady in the forst movie directly and master THE FUCKING JEDI MIND TRICK then there is fuck all for her to learn or improve so any faults she gets later will be back tracking or complete bullshit.
>>63989851
Only the ugly bitches who are bitter are complaining about there not being enough females.
>>63988389
good filename
that's about it though
>>63985923
I don't understand. If they didn't want people talking about Mary sues, then why did they put one in the movie?
Someone being too good at something is considered objective criticism?
That's like a pseudo-intellectual form of saying REEEEE over Chad Thundercock being successful
>>63988389
Disney sure knows how to make little girls sexy
>>63986747
So that the character is interesting? Nobody wants to see a character with no conflict casually strolling through every challenge.
>>63990187
that's besides the point
as soon as everyone saw the uppity nigger storm trooper who conviently never has his mask on and the woman we all wrote the general storyline and it came true
even in RLM's review they talk about how the most hyped character, which wound up having just 1 line in the movie telling the nigger to put his helmet on (nah nigga i can du wut i want, i want deez cigarets immah takem, MIKE BROWN DIDN DU NUFFIN ;~; )
>>63990270
they spawned miley cyrus, selena gomez, ren from even stevens(the show shia lebeouf started on) also lizzy mcguire with miranda an kate
>>63985923
I actually enjoyed how Rey god-modes her way through the entire film.
>>63987229
>JJ YOU FUCKING HACK THIS ISNT EXACTLY LIKE THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY
>JJ YOU FUCKING HACK WHY CANT YOU COME UP WITH ANYTHING ORIGINAL
I'm not complaining about you specifically, but I just realized star wars fans are impossible to please and this shit should have died in 2005
You know who was a good female lead?
Anderson in Dredd.
nervous
sloppy
got caught
unsure
technically didnt pass either of her tests
BUT she learns to over come those issues by bucking up and stop giving a shit, and being fucking pissed off.
she was competent without being a mary sue nor a love interest, just someone for Dredd to bounce his dialouge off of an a good character for the audience to connect to and see that fucked up weird world in perspective.
>>63990206
>beaten
Literally another buzzword. That fight could have kept going, easily. It was just the land separated and Rey had more important things to do.
As for the mind trick:
In that situation she was desperate for literally anything that could help her. Because she's heard stories of Luke and the fight against the Empire and stuff about the force from that Orange with Eyes, why not give it a try? It's like cornering a rat.
How do we know she mastered it? It took her three tries, and she only did it once during the movie. If she mastered it right then, she could do it flawlessly a second time...but we never saw a second time. Mastered is definitely the wrong word.
>>63990314
you're the type of faggot you puts on no clipping playing half life and portal, arent you?
>>63990336
>star wars fans are impossible to please and this shit should have died in 2005
most fans adore the clone wars.
>>63990377
horseshit excuses are still horseshit.
>>63990262
Someone dealing with very little struggle or coming out on top everytime taking no loses or ever being BTFO at all is a very boring character. Very little doesn't come incredibly easy to her and she always succeeds nullifying most of the conflict involving her in the movie. Give the prequels all the shit in the world for being trash but at least Anakin's God mode was apart of his downfall.
Not a self insert Mary Sue, but a flat, boring character.
>>63990370
dredd is a mary sue, never makes any mistakes and is perfect
>>63990276
>that's besides the point
But it's not?
Is there a male equivalent of a Mary Sue?
If yes, then I guess I'm wrong then.
>>63990262
At what point does Rey fail at anything?
Shes the best space fighter
The best saber fighter
The best force user
Everybody likes her and wants to be her friend despite just meeting her
>>63990529
I've seen Mary Sue used for both males and females in the past
>>63990529
Gary Stu
>>63990455
>horseshit excuses are still horseshit.
What excuses? I clearly explained why she could do those things with the movie we're shown. Obviously I could be a fucking imbecile and in the next two movies something totally fucks-shit-up but until then you have no reason to be mad.
>>63990455
They took a different direction than the OT, I'll give you that. I'm starting to take star wars for what it is, movies directed towards all ages that anyone should be able to enjoy and aping the original trilogy won't make it any better. It's just not worth sperging out about.
>>63990522
Well...he IS the law.
>>63990559
>>63990583
Ok, and if there was a lead male role in TFA, would we be calling him out on it? Would there be this much disruption?
>>63990522
>>63990522
>never makes any mistakes and is perfect
thats the point, his premise is that he's the perfect law enforcement agent.
however, he isnt a mary sue because he's used as a commentary on fascism. His whole method of law enforcement is wrong and perpetuates violence and strife.
thats the point, he doesnt cure, only reacts.
>>63990784
Yeah I think so actually
because the universe in the other six films is pretty consistent in how people learn the force, and how difficult certain skills are
>>63987335
Kylo Ren can stop blaster bolts in mid-air.
And you seriously think it's perfectly reasonable that Rey, who learned about her Force potential a few hours ago, is able to beat him.
>>63990336
What the fuck are you talking about? I only brought up the original trilogy because the way it built up Luke's confrontation with Vader was well done. I don't care if it's like the originals or not, I care if it's executed well.
>>63990784
Obviously, people still shit on Anakin to this very day.
>>63990842
oh yeah. this.
we dont care she's a woman, the people defending her are like the anti gamergate crowd, they're making this about identity as a red herring/deflection against any criticism.
In reality people dont give a shit about sex, or even race.
a bad character is a bad character.
>>63990262
Her being very knowledgeable about tech-stuff is perfectly reasonable given what we know about her.
Her being an ace pilot, a proficient lightsaber duelist and an expert Force user despite having no experience or training with any of that is ridiculous.
>>63990784
Yes and no. Yes in that it would still be happening, and no in that there wouldn't be such a disruption from it because there wouldn't have been such a backlash in calling the lead male a Mary Sue/Garry Stu, which in turn caused more people to call them a Mary Sue, which caused more people to backlash against it, etc etc. They basically created a feedback loop in themselves
>>63987376
I do think she's a Mary Sue, but some of these reasons are pretty dumb.
>Instantly trusted by the resistance to go on a mission to find Luke, even though they barely knew her
She's clearly strong with the force and the resistance probably learned it from Finn. She's probably the only force sensitive person available to track down Luke.
>Beats up four guys by herself
She only fought two guys at once and that was a cool character moment, but since she never failed throughout the rest of the movie it stands out.
>Speaks droid and Wookie
Okay, speaking Wookie is kind of weird but speaking droid totally makes sense. She's been scavenging and working with droids her whole life, it's not much of a stretch to think that she learned how to communicate with them. Her life as a scavenger is also probably the reason why she knows her way around the Falcon so well.
>>63990529
Uh, yeah.
How new are you? You're clearly not from around here.
>>63985923
>mfw that scene wasn't in the final cut
it's a saber crystal right
>>63991063
It's those food packets she trades for you retard
>>63990377
She cut him up badly, while she remained unhurt, and she knocked him down. She clearly won, and given that she's a force prodigy and is likely going to be trained by Luke, I don'e see Kylo ever catching up.
>>63991063
>mfw snorting lightsaber crystals is her secret power
>>63990917
Thank you, this is what I wanted clarification on.
While I don't think she is a terrible character, I do feel that a lot of her "discovery" of the force had a lot to be desired. And the relationship with Finn felt a rushed as well.
I was curious as to why this movie is so short? I felt like if they pushed to 2.5 hours they could have covered a little more information/backstory. It really felt like a Jason Bourne meets ANH. Bourne because they like to shoot first, explain later. ANH because literally same plot.
>>63991190
Cause at the end of the day, it's a kids movie. You're only gonna keep kids interested in it for so long
>>63990973
So is a crumbling empire building a military base that destroys what is basically an entire star system and powers up by sucking up a star
It's absolutely ridiculous that success is something bad. Liberals really have taken over.
>>63990522
>>63990556
All you're doing is affirming my point.
>>63991212
>star wars
>kids movie
can we stop this shit? just because everyone fucking loves it doesnt mean kids own it.
>>63991212
Ya know, I keep forgetting that Disney is at the wheel.
Thanks, anon.
>>63991301
who the fuck takes the time to make something like this
>>63991301
FOR WHAT PURPOSE
>>63991289
>Disney
>not a kids movie
It's a major demographic from them and you know it
>>63991333
>those digits
Satan?
>>63991333
>>63991511
>>63991253
20 years in the cubes, creep
>>63986001
I've said it before, but Rey is hardly TOO powerful. Ren is just incompetent.
A fucking STORMTROOPER went toe-to-toe with him for a good 2 minutes, using a lightsaber without any Force ability, and didn't even die.
>>63992119
Ren was injured and probably mentally unstable at the time, though
>>63985923
>when she sees my dick
>>63992119
She may not be objectively powerful, but she doesn't have to be. Being surrounded by incompetent people and villains is just as good as being powerful yourself.
>>63986001
> mfw it's revealed her midichlorian count is off the charts
>>63986186
I took the same test and got 55. Not good, but not 163. Did you answer yes to all the questions asking if you want to fuck/be her, or what?
>>63987229
This. You guys are fucking plebs giving it a pass like that.
>Luke
Got rekt by the tusken raiders, needed Obi Wan to save him
Nearly got killed by the men in the cantina, needed Obi Wan to save him
Needed Leia and Han to cover his ass constantly during the rescue mission, which ended up being a clusterfuck
Screwed up deflecting blaster bolts while Obi Wan was training him, never actually does that until 2 movies later
Rarely used his lightsaber at all
Needs C3PO to interpret droids for him
Initially annoyed Han and Leia with his naivete and innocence
Needed R2 to save him from being crushed by the trash compactor
Needed Obi Wan to protect him from Vader
Needed Wedge to protect him from a TIE fighter during the trench run
Needed Han to save him from Vader during the trench run
Piloted competently, didn't do anything the other rebel pilots couldn't do (except aim the torpedo)
Used the force once
>Rey
Beat up four guys by herself
Skilled marksman
Skilled mechanic
Knew more about the Millennium Falcon than Han and Chewie, who piloted and repaired it for years
Piloted the Millennium Falcon by herself competently enough to outmaneuver two TIE fighters, even though it required two pilots
Gets kidnapped once, ends up saving herself anyways
Better at using the Force than Kylo, who trained under Luke for years
Instantly knowledgeable about probing minds, telekinesis, and using Jedi mindtricks
Instantly skilled at using a lightsaber
Has super saiyan jedi mode, which no other jedi has ever used in the movies
May have possibly learned all of this at the ripe young age of 4, depending on her backstory
Instantly liked by everyone
Instantly trusted by the Resistance to go on a mission to find Luke, even though they barely knew her
Can speak Droid and Wookie fluently
>>63992308
The parts Rey knew more about were the new parts and she literally dealt with pieces of ships all the time
Why do people think the idea of midichlorians/genetic Force is dumb, while at the same time watching a series of movies where the most powerful characters are all related?
>>63987229
A)Kylo is no where near Vadar's level. That's why he's an insecure little bitch.
B)He was weakened and tired out from getting shot by Chewie and fighting with Finn.
I thought she was great, there is obviously something more to her character that people don't seem to be considering. We still don't know anything about her past.
She had plenty of moments of weakness. She chickened out. She got captured. I think people are calling her a sue just because of her force power at the end, but that had reason to it I'm sure.
She is not weak and flawed like Fin, who we will obviously watch develop and grow stronger. There is something more to her and her journey is going to be something else.
Also, admit it, that fight scene was badass.
>>63992471
This. There's good reasons to argue why she's a Sue, but her barely managing to beat out somebody who 1) had potentially never been in an actual fight for his life before (vs her having grown up on the streets and brawling) 2) was actively bleeding out from an abdomen wound 3) had just killed his father and was mentally fucked 4) was trying to capture her alive/convince her into surrendering peacefully is not one of them.
>>63992379
people who think Rey is Luke's daughter are babbies who can't get the prequels out of their heads
>>63992578
I don't think she has that much room for development, she was captured but she develops her force powers do quickly that it doesn't really matter. She has a good internal conflict in the movie, but that's kind of resolved. The only thing really interesting is her parentage, which is external to her. She just seems to confident at everything, and has no major character defects, and faces really pathetic villains that I don't see much room for development or challenge,
>>63987781
this is the only sensible post in this whole fucking thread.
>>63985923
That's Mariam Sue to you sir
>>63992688
I am interested her past.
I don't think her development will be "getting stronger" it will probably be discovering things about the force and the balance of the light and dark sides. Kylo will probably have a lot to do with it.
>>63992824
No it wasn't.
Just because no one gave (You) a (You) doesn't mean it was sensible
faggot
>>63985923
You can tell it is cause every time somebody mentions how much more people are using it now, your typical shitposter will get super defensive.
>>63992884
Yeah, but there doesn't seem to be a compelling threat to add any tension or challenge, which reduces the weight of any accomplishment. She also doesn't seem to have any particular character defect or skill deficit that makes a journey of discovery and growth very meaningful.
>>63992884
>>63992688
To add to both of this, her character/personality itself is relatively centered right now (she's a little on the standoffish/socially awkward side but otherwise very solid), but her actual life is a shithole. She's trying to find a family that abandoned her, no luck. Broke as shit. Finally managed to get out of her shit homeworld, almost got killed. I personally liked her and want to know how she goes from a talented homeless almost starving person who lives in the Star Wars equivalent of Detroit and raids abandoned houses for copper tubing to... ???
There's also the possibility that she's going to turn to the Dark Side and this is a story of her downfall and Kylo's redemption, though that's more controversial and probably less likely.
Is "/pol/ stormfag" the new /reddit/ buzzword?
Seems a few rankled landwhales are getting a period bleeding over this and are in the process of memefication.
>>63993019
I don't know, I didn't see that her issue with the past translates into any particular character problem aside from an over attachment that seems resolved this movie. This seems to be a problem with Finn as well, who didn't really act like someone tormented with a lifetime of shit. The only character that really seems well portrayed was Ren, and I think that compared to Rey, he has an immense amount of growth for 2 movies.
I doubt that Rey will turn to the Dark side, I don't think 2 movies are enough to resolve something like that appropriately, and I don't think Disney will allow it.
>>63993184
Agree with you on the dark side thing. And on both her and Finn being too well adjusted for their lives. That's a common issue in huge movies for some reason.
I think I figured out a better way to phrase what I meant in the earlier post: she's already got a very solid personality and internal life, like you're saying. She has some issues from being abandoned and having to constantly fight for herself, but I agree that they're not crippling enough to be a real problem. The thing is that her actual external situation is terrible, and I'm interested in watching her overcome it and make a good life for herself. I'm not interested in her arc because I want her to grow as a person, I'm interested because I already like her as a person where she's at and want to see her kick ass in her external life.
>>63993019
>>63993019
>There's also the possibility that she's going to turn to the Dark Side and this is a story of her downfall and Kylo's redemption, though that's more controversial and probably less likely.
I'm really hoping for something like this. Rey is a really great foil for Kylo and vice versa, their relationship dynamic has a lot of potential.
>>63993270
>>63993184
Sorry for double posting, but I thought of another example of the same thing. Captain America. By the time he's in the Avengers he has no character flaws to speak of, really, he's just a really good and all around awesome guy. I like watching him deal with tough shit and overcome it, because I like him as a person and want to see him walk around and see how he deals with his issues. It's a different motivation than wanting to see the character really develop personality wise.
>>63993348
I think the situation with cap is different in that he represents an ideal, and his conflict is more of that ideal being corrupted and tested. The conflict is him having to resolve the tension of his ideals in the real world. I don't really see any of that in Rey, she doesn't seem to have any strong beliefs that can be tested.
Also Cap faced tough opponents, which made his accomplishments satisfying and suspenseful. Rey already seems like a force prodigy and her opponents seems kind of pathetic. They need to make Ren or Snoke intimating in the next movie, but it seems difficult when Snoke is kind of a palpatine wannabe and Ren was humiliated.
>>63993102
>memefication
the term is 'memeticization'
>>63993601
He is an emblem of a particular ideal, but that isn't why I like him. I just like him as a person, he's the kind of guy I'd want to grab a beer with and enjoy seeing win a fight. I'm not big on the /co/ stuff so all I'm speaking for is the MCU, but I never noticed him being seriously internally conflicted on whether or not he should drop his corn-fed morals in the modern world or not. His struggle is always to fight for those ideals in the modern world in an effective way. It all reads as external struggling to me, though like I said I'm not big on the comics so I am missing a lot of context on him/could be reading him totally wrong. He and Rey are both interesting to me because of their external struggles combined with their likeable personalities. Not because of their nonexistent internal conflicts. I'm a simple person probably. I like seeing Cap punch things and I'm looking forward to seeing Rey kick the shit out of something with a double bladed lightsaber.
She could definitely use some scarier enemies, yeah. Ren is pretty pathetic. Her biggest issue is probably abject poverty at this point, since she let her family go and got a ship and some friends she's solved most of her other issues. Ren is probably hunting her down but it's hard to be concerned about it, especially with the Resistance on her side.
>>63992945
end yourself rightly
>>63993846
Trying to fight for and relate and negotiate those ideals in the real world is kind of a internal conflict I feel. At least there is something deeper that is being tested in caps case, trying to prove and be an ideal in the real world is more interesting than just fighting a physical threat. I think they could have an interesting conflict for Rey with how she grapples with her parentage, but that depends on the next movie.
>Luke can barely lift his lightsaber with the force in ESB, three years after learning about the force. In addition to the time Luke's known about it, he had some (but very limited) training with obi-wan, and also has obi-wans force ghost advising him
>Rey is mindtricking people about an hour after learning the force is real, with no help from anyone, and with no explanation on how she knows mindtricking is even possible
>>63987845
The picture was the argument. You're the one who can't come up with a rebutted you fucking moron
>>63994995
he doesn't have an argument, hence why he picks out a grammatical error (which I doubt is even a grammatical error, probably just a spelling of a goofy nickname for the falcon)
everything in that image is factual. I don't really care that Rey is a total mary sue, i'm just butthurt because Luke's growth over the OT is probably one of the best things about it and here is some girl with pretty much the exact same start as Luke (hell she should know even less since she didn't have anyone like uncle owen or aunt whatever) who starts off being able to do all this shit because ?? or "shut up shitlord that's sexist"
How is Rey going to grow as a character? She has no flaws I can really think of. Being abandoned isn't a fucking character flaw, and the only actual flaw she has is how she was in denial about her family leaving her, something that she gets over barely halfway in the movie
It's just lame and lazy and I have no idea why people feel the need to defend a boring character/boring writing like this
>>63987376
>"regardless of his injuries"
>"if I ignore the main reason she won, then I can count it as a point towards my argument"
Whoever made this image is an omega fucboi
>>63995240
They wrote the injuries in because they really wanted to get away with Rey winning
>>63995240
The way the fight was presented, with Ren easily fucking up Finn and holding against Rey, would probably have people assume that he wasn't being hindered that much.
>>63995289
I don't care what you thought would've happened, you faggot, what actually happened is that Ren got fucked up by Chewy and it made him lose. End of story.
>>63995314
Finn was a jobber throughout the whole movie, though. Even Ren could've beaten him with a missing arm if he needed to.
>>63995403
I think the issue isn't so much the justification for her winning, but the dramatic presentation of her overcoming Ren. It presents her as a force prodigy who is already proficient in using a lightsaber, this reduces tension and her scope for development. I don't see Ren ever catching up with her level.
>>63995403
Why are you mad about this?
You don't really seem to get it. The problem with Rey being good at everything is that is cheapens both her character (or hell, completely removes any character she could have, I mean how would you describe Rey after seeing the movie? "She's a scavenger who can speak droid and wookie and fly ships really well and shoot a blaster better than trained stormtroopers even though she has little to no experience with blasters and can use the force to jedi mind trick dudes even though she's never actively used the force before and with no explanation as to how she knows that jedi mindtricks are a thing, also she can use a lightsaber well and can out force-pull a 30 year old sith who has shown to be really fucking strong with the force"?) and cheapens other characters like Kylo Ren (a 30 year old who has been active assumedly all his life, trained under both Luke and fucking Snoke who is assumedly a sith lord)
Where does Rey go from here? After training with luke is she going to be pulling star destroyers out of orbit? She's already fucking better than Luke was about halfway through the OT, remember in ESB Luke can hardly pull his lightsaber out of some snow/ice despite both having trained with obi-wan a little bit and it being three fucking years after ANH, Rey does all this shit maybe a day or two after leaving Jakku?
She turns bad and Luke kills her.
>>63987037
yeh sorta like wesley on TNG
but in a way rey is a similar phenomenon
JJ isn't inserting himself no, but he's inserting his stronk independant woman leftist theory, which has no place in storytelling
How dare anyone have ANY criticism of star wars
It is literally perfect.
The fact that two people have the same complaint proves it is part of some /tv/ conspiracy.
>>63992119
Black people are physically stronger then white men.
I'm looking forward to Rey using her mind to hurl meteors at star destroyers in episode 9 and watching people still deny the obvious
>>63998886
lol
>>63998960
Ugh stop being so fucking melodramatic
>>63998886
>black
>people
good 1
>>63985923
>>63995816
The problem is that you're misreading her character.
She is not a hero.
She is a monster, the Dark Side of the Force made flesh (which the movie deceitfully identifies as the "Light"). Why do you think her parents abandoned her?
