The problem is that the beginning of the movie humanizes the Stormtroppers too much in my opinion
With that little moment of Finn holding the dying body of one of his comrades and gets horrified at his death
Then the continuing fight between the FO an the Resistence, just a bunch of death around him that he doesn't want to deal with anymore
It's actually a really good opening scene and made me have high hopes for this film, maybe Finn giving an angle on the Stormtroopers and what's it like to be in that environment, knowing that you're disposable fodder. Can lead to an existential crisis and a lot of conflict between Finn and the other characters as they pick his former comrades off.
But no it becomes LEL DO I TAlK FIRST OR YOU DO and then WHOOO WHOOOOOO!!!!! while Finn kills people who could be just like him and thus starts this shitty film
>>63968714
GET OUT
GET THE FUCK OUT
>>63968714
>It's actually a really good opening scene and made me have high hopes for this film,
Yes, it was written like an actual movie, and not like a fucking play, which is what Lucas did with the prequels.
I was all excited.
>>63968833
but y
>>63968833
TRAY TORRRR
Also this guy should have been Phasma
>>63968714
First half is Star Wars, second half is adhd capeshit nonsense
>>63969146
>second half is adhd capeshit nonsense
but the first half had plenty of quips too
>>63968714
Yep.
>Introduce a conflicted Stormtrooper who can't handle battle and wants to defect.
>Reveal that every single Stormtrooper basically has a tragic backstory and gets sent to reeducation camps if they ever hesitate.
>Take off Stormtrooper gear.
>All of a sudden it's really fun to fight and kill people!
>Whoohoo! Didja see that!?
>Stormtrooper genocide is A-OK in my book!
>>63969223
The way I digested this was this:
>thinks his team is evil
>decides to defect for that reason
>no problem killing those he deems evil
Or
>he's a fucking nigger, thus an animal
>nigger please
What the fuck did i just watch? no seriously, what the fuck?
i dont know where to start with this monstrosity of a flick. if it wasn't for the obvious faces and lightsabers it would just be the usual high budget flick with the thinking that fancy effects and explosions will make a 'movie' good. fucking wrong.
i couldnt tell if it was at the start, beginning or end due to the lack of structure and plot - infact im still struggling to see what the plot was? the whole thing dragged out to see some old fuck standing on the cliffs - greeeaat.
what really fucking me off was how they mocked the dark side to be a laughing stock. that pathetic joke making the clone troopers run away when kylo was throwing a tantrum.
-kylo was meant to be the evil sith boss but actually got KILLED by a girl using a lightsaber for the FIRST FUCKING TIME. the fucking dindu put up a good fight, they both have zero fucking knowledge in using one, let alone the force in general. what the fuck?
how can anyone possible criticise the prequels with pieces of liberal shit like this one? there were no characters in TFA with any presence, or something that made you think 'wow i like this guy'. the prequels had mace windu, anakin, obi wan, darth vader, darth maul, etc. what did this one have? the characters were fucking dull as fuck, im actually angry as im typing this i just cant get over what i just watched and i need to vent it somewhere.
trust disney to fuck up this bad. i dont even need to mention (but i will anyway) the obvious racism with the dark side being all white, and the 'goodies' being a melting pot of spics, chinks, dindus, females etc. how can this racism even be allowed?
sadly ticket sales determine the success of a film, and so people will feel obligated to think this flick was good but in reality it was tediously boring, which lacked a plot, characters with any redeeming qualities, and made the dark side a joke.
>>63969109
would have been better for phasma's character, but the scene wouldn't have been memorable at all.
>>63968714
Fin..
FN...
FN-2187...
FixiN' 2 187...
FixiNg to 187
FixiNg to commit murder
>>63969304
>i couldnt tell if it was at the start, beginning or end due to the lack of structure and plot - infact im still struggling to see what the plot was?
I hope you're joking.
>BB8 has a bit of a map
>they look for him
>FO wants to eliminate Luke, the R wants to find him too but for other reasons
>Finn defects
>everyone goes for BB8
>starkiller destroys some planets of the Republic
>urgent need to disable starkiller
Same plot as episode 4, just update. Literally the same plot: droid has secret plan on a desert planet, there's an old Jedi master hiding somewhere, there's a giant mass destruction weapon in space, etc.
>be a stormtrooper
>miss all your shots and constantly watch your buddies get mowed down around you because no plot armor
>feels bad man
And before anyone says "well the OT used Stromtroopers as fodder", it's about the CONTEXT that it's brought up in
You can't have a little emotional complexity with the stormtroopers in the first scene and then just drop like flies later
>>63968714
>>63968610
>posting a comment
>thinking it is so insightful I'll make a while thread on it
>>63969304
It's apparent that you're too retarded to understand even a movie made for the brain dead masses. Please leave /tv/
The beginning was really cool. I wish they had worked something out so that Finn wasn't the one gunning down troopers in the hanger because that was lame. It would have been really funny if they jumped into this double-sided TIE and neither of them knew which was the pilot seat and which was the gunner seat, and then Poe had to coach Finn through flying the thing while gunning down troopers. Keep the crash and all that.
I think that in SW7 or SW8 Kylo is going to use that battle as a wedge between Finn and Poe since Poe is the one that shot Finn's buddy. Kylo Ren can use his force powers to transfer the memories he ripped from Poe or something, or just explain what happened to Finn to instill anger and doubt.
>>63969303
>thinks his team is evil
>no problem killing those he deems evil
That's a very unsympathetic character though. Dogmatic morals, turning on former comrades on a dime...
>>63968714
>while Finn kills people who could be just like him and thus starts this shitty film
They aren't like him. They are complicit in killing innocents. He isn't.
>>63968714
Why the fuck was he the only storm trooper who got a consience. Wouldn't the other storm troopers do the same thing? Also he was a soldier trained from childhood. Why would he not have experienced killing earlier?
>>63969823
It's a Star Wars character, literally the same as every single other person in the franchise. This isn't a series for shades of gray.
>>63969758
Yhea I know, I thought it would be better as a thread
>>63968714
> Abducted from home @ age of 5
> Trained to be a murder-death-kill-bot
> One step above clone, two steps above droid
> Has only known First Order entire life
> Only interacted in a military setting
> Only received military education, training
Within hours of his "awakening"
> Not acting like a tabula rasa
> Bubbly personality
> Full command of casual, formal English
> Knows how to bullshit and lie
> Has attraction
> No residual chemical behavior modification from F.O.
> No evidence of brainwashing
He basically goes from Terminator 1 to giving the thumbs up at the end of Terminator 2 without earning it AT ALL.
He doesn't even need to learn any social cues or norms from regular hoo-mans.
>>63970121
That's back to the popcorn element. To really pull off such an arc, you'd need a psychological character drama. You don't have time to tell that in an action movie.
If you want that, though, watch
http://www.watchanimes.me/Suisei-no-Gargantia
>>63970121
he was never at "Terminator 1."
>>63969924
I know, it is just Star Wars. Classic sci-fi was always just as much about the human condition as about cool space stuff. This is an entertainment product, and I consume it happily.
>>63968714
>LEL DO I TAlK FIRST OR YOU DO
That'd still work, since Poe was a cocky murderer like Solo.
I just wish they'd handled Finn a little better rather than having him go gung ho right off the bat.
>>63970121
My guess is that most of the time when they're on sanitation duty they are in more casual military attire, like BDUs or whatever they're called - the same way the officers and technicians wander around without armor in black uniforms. That would have given him a lot of time to bond face-to-face with other people, learn some stuff. Then he gets conscripted into the Stormtrooper corps, and on his first mission the movie happens.
I like to think of his buddytrooper that died at the beginning as being a black chick trooper he had a crush on and grew up with that he always talked about running away with, and that his attraction to Rey is rebound/coping/nervousness. Then later Kylo can mess with Finn's head by telling him how Poe killed his gf.
>>63969223
>>63969823
When Poe Finn got into that fighter the troopers started shooting at you.
As soon as someone shoots at you intending to kill you, I have NO DOUBT that you'll defend you're self by killing them in a heart beat.
JJ did it to Star Trek, and now he did it to Star Wars, whats next? Battlestar? Babylon 5?
>>63970121
You do know children in boarding schools and soldiers in the army do have a personality and life outside their work hours, anon.
>mfw poe immediately trusts a rogue stormtrooper
>>63968714
Other than Phasma being a total pussy the StormTroopers were the best part of the movie
>>63970430
>I will try and escape in the most conspicuous way possible
Tells you he didn't care about having to shoot people from the start. It's all about him deserting, no matter how many people he has to kill.
What a fucking nasty piece of shit.
>>63970533
Phasma didn't do a single thing
I dont even think she fired her weapon on screen
Why call it the first order? How is it not the empire in any way?
>>63969304
>trust disney to fuck up this bad. i dont even need to mention (but i will anyway) the obvious racism with the dark side being all white, and the 'goodies' being a melting pot of spics, chinks, dindus, females etc. how can this racism even be allowed?
the jews in hollywood want to destroy the white man
i am not kidding
there is a reason whenever you see a white man he's a conflicted, angsty retard or comedic relief even at his best moments
>>63970509
Yeah it could have been a trap to get him to point out the correct droid and then just take it from him with reinforcements
>>63969223
by what logic do you equate stormtroopers shooting back at Finn with villagers rounded up for slaughter?
>>63970716
Han, Poe, Hux.
There was a brown girl in the First Order command center and we know they have black Stormtroopers. There were lots of girls in the First Order command center, but no alien scum. You can't deny that Phasma was a woman either, useless as she was.
Ben is white, because he's the child of Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher. What the fuck did you expect?
>>63970700
It has no emperor
>>63970845
>han
stabbed to death by a white man who was also his own son, made into a martyr (the best white men die, killed by their own)
>poe
spic
>hux
evil, white man = evil
>>63970977
>stabbed to death by a white man who was also his own son, made into a martyr (the best white men die, killed by their own)
Luke Fucking Skywalker
>>63970815
The villagers shot back at first too. As did Poe. That's why Finn has blood on the helmet - they killed his buddies.
As far as war crimes go, this is pretty low level stuff - most soldiers will burn a village if they lose a few guys, even Americans.
>>63969874
because he was marked. the film is in large part a comment on how we watch movies. you can hear it in the score: up until the moment he got the blood on his helmet, he was nothing, a stormtrooper, trying to pick up his buddy so they could keep killing rebels. but the moment we can recognize him, he is lifted out of the milieu and into the realm of privilege the audience expects named characters to enjoy. he looks around, confused. why am I here? I'm nothing like these people! I'm different! and yet he can't yet understand how or why: he can't see his helmet, can't tell that he stands out. it isn't until Kylo recognized him too that he starts to realize his individualism. we can understand Rey's seeming Mary-Sue-ness in the same context, and by extension that of Han Solo, the only character who seems aware he's in a movie.
>>63969870
>They are complicit in killing innocents.
1. They're not innocents in their minds
2. They're forced to do it and have no choice
>>63971015
you're proving my point
>>63968714
I agree. The opening gave me hope that the movie might be interesting, but then it became clear that the First Order (shit name btw) was meant to be a monolithic death cult and Finn was the only human being among them, other than the "the imperial remnant fight to restore the old order in a galaxy that's been plunged into chaos by rival warlords in the wake of the Empire's disintegration" that I was naively hoping for.
By the time the scene where Abrams hits you across the face with "THESE PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY HITLERS" happened I lost what little interest I still had. That part and the part when C-3PO pops up were the two times I felt that if I hadn't been there with my kids I would've walked right out.
>>63968714
The opening scene of the movie is his first actual deployment and it's a mass murder of a village. In his eyes everyone else is compliant with doing those sort of things.
>>63971066
>1. They're not innocents in their minds
That matters to literally no one.
>2. They're forced to do it and have no choice
Except Finn choose not to do it.
>>63971311
He's also been raised from near birth to serve the First Order.
Nah. The First Order is diverse enough ( minus aliens ) to be a fairly realistic portrayal of SPACE NAZIS. The Nazis were fairly open towards women in the military, having them as signal operators and an ace pilot as I recall.
>>63971475
>indoctrinated from birth to be a mindless soldier drone
>is plucky and cool, has no internal conflict about switching sides
>>63970558
>there's no difference between executing prisoners on the spot and self defense
>>63971657
>is plucky and cool
>spends majority of film running scared, panting heavily, and clumsily falling over shit
okay, anon.
>>63968714
>With that little moment of Finn holding the dying body of one of his comrades and gets horrified at his death
and then he mercilessly stabs another in the cantina battle
>>63971666
>lol this but anon won't have shit to say back to you....
>>63971666
>not getting it
What did he think was going to happen by just hijacking a TIE fighter? By making that choice, he is choosing to put himself in a position where he will have to kill. Instant impulse gratification, no impulse control, no regard for others.
Poe even called him out on it.
He couldn't wait to bail until he had shore leave, or was deployed to some planetside again?
>>63969326
You don't think? I'd imagine it would have been more memorable, with Phasma stomping Finn's shit, rather than some random Trooper. Not to mention, it would have given the later scene when she gets caught a little more emotional resonance.
>>63971833
>not getting it
He was worried about
>being killed like the one that left blood on his helmet
>being forced to kill innocents
>phasma asks he submit his rifle for testing
Finn has every reason to leave right away. You don't stick around when Phasma is going to check your gun and find out you disobeyed orders. It's not like he can just resign. But you want him to be inconsistent and a bad character so you'll say that there's no difference between executing prisoners and self defense.
>>63972109
*gleeful self defense. He's positively giddy killing other stormtroopers.
Killing former comrades is fun after all, not just a grim necessity.
>>63969365
>FN
>Fo'sho Nigga
>>63972243
And you keep acting like all the stormtroopers are best friends that hang out on the weekends.
Finn is immature as fuck, I think we all agree. Stormtroopers probably aren't keen on expressing emotions, they can't even take their helmets off while on duty. Relief is a powerful emotion when you're fucking terrified. Finn is terrified when the stormtrooper leaves blood on him, when Phasma confronts him on the shuttle, and when he's breaking Poe out. Let him have a moment of relief and accomplishment.
>>63972109
>But you want him to be inconsistent and a bad character
I don't want anything, but if he was raised from birth by the First Order for the sole purpose of serving under them as a ruthless killing machine, I'm pretty sure that by adulthood he'd be a ruthless killing machine who lives to serve under the First Order.
Really you'd need your own film to show the events leading up to his defection, including his run-ins with their authority, or mistreatment by them in the past, showing his lack of indoctrination. Perhaps after he meets rey he could consider turning her over to the Order or something. Better yet, have him be a recent and unwilling conscript.
Instead he just isn't brainwashed like he should be for plot convenience because JJ had a lot of New Hope references to fit into his 2 hours and couldn't make space for sensible characters.
>>63972389
Buy some of Occam's razors. You're making all these unwarranted assumptions when it's all just down to a mediocre script.
Someone with talent wrote the first scene, and Boyega acted it up like a pro. But then the plot had to happen, so we have the character do something tonally different now. That's all.
>>63972407
>deserters are impossible
You know people run away from cults they've been in since birth, religious extremist terrorists defect, and Nazi soldiers defected.
Programming doesn't always work. It does most of the time, but you're still gonna get these glitches from time to time.
But nope this movie sucks, the character sucks, JJ is just so lazy because he doesn't want to have an entire movie setting up a character that only starts off as a stormtrooper. Finn's arc about not being a stormtrooper. The arc is about finding something he believes in fighting for. Rejecting the stormtroopers isn't his story, it's the set up for his story.
>>63972701
>unwarranted assumptions
find one in my post cunt
>>63970606
We didn't even see the scene of Finn in her office
>>63972860
>acting like all the stormtroopers are best friends that hang out on the weekends
You're assuming they don't. Your baseline assumption is that they're not human, basically.
>Finn is immature as fuck
Based on what?
>Stormtroopers probably aren't keen on expressing emotions
TR-8R did with gusto.
That's just in the one post.
>>63972803
It's like you didn't even read my post at all.
Finn has some reason to defect - his impending death at the hands of phasma - but no reason whatsoever to immediately begin murdering his fellow soldiers. He doesn't have a reason to resent the first order, or stormtroopers, and we don't know nearly enough of his backstory to understand why he doesn't view the enemies of the First Order as evil.
Wehrmacht soldiers weren't indoctrinated at all - they were only conscripts - but they had no problem executing ethnic poles because they believed that they were enemies of the German people. Why doesn't Finn believe that those women and children are a threat to the First Order (his parents, friends and brothers-in-arms) when that's all he's been taught for his entire life? Evidenced by his wholesale slaughter of stormtroopers, he has no problem killing people whom he views as 'bad', but he hasn't personally seen do anything wrong, so why won't he just execute a few kids?
I get that you're upset that people are insulting your new favorite film, but this character doesn't make sense. Bringing up the Nazis only strengthens my argument, instead of ending it like you were expecting.
>>63973231
>Finn has some reason to defect - his impending death at the hands of phasma - but no reason whatsoever to immediately begin murdering his fellow soldiers. He doesn't have a reason to resent the first order, or stormtroopers
1.) He knows the abduct young boys and brainwash them.
2.) He knows they murder innocent civilians.
3.) They were trying to kill Rey.
He has every reason to resent the first order, and every reason to murder every Stormtrooper he sees. You're being stupid.
>>63973002
You assume they do. What do you see in the movie that leads you to expect stormtroopers to have this off time they spend bonding and being best friends? You're the one going out of your way to forget their weird indoctrination cult.
Finn is immature based on Finn. He's impulsive, starts out selfish, wants to bang Rey cause she's a pretty girl and pretends to be important to impress her. Are these not signs of immaturity? Did you want a character to say "That Finn is really immature!"?
Revenge/anger directed at a traitor is not the same as being scarred, doubting orders, refusing to follow orders, and laughing it up off duty.
>>63973231
>He doesn't have a reason to resent the first order, or stormtroopers, and we don't know nearly enough of his backstory to understand why
Did you even watch the movie? They took him as a baby from a family he will never know. So there's THAT reason to resent them. Then there's the part where he says that he knows they will slaughter him and every member of the resistance that they can find. So there you have motive and backstory. Shut up.
>>63969365
Finn, finna, fixing to
it rhymes
>>63968714
>while Finn kills people who could be just like him
This whole movie just wastes any potential character development for all the characters.
Fin doesn't show any of the training you'd expect him to have, it's like he joined the Storm Troopers yesterday.
Rey becomes a jedi within a few minutes of learning of a jedi mind trick.
Kylo, like Fin, shows nothing about his years of training, as he's bested by a couple of people who have just picked up a lightsaber for the first time.
The more I think about it, the more I dislike this movie. What a terrible waste.
It also has no beautiful shots at all, it's ugly as hell.
>>63973312
>2.) He knows they murder innocent civilians.
again, you didn't read my post
Why would Finn think those civilians are innocent? Who told him? His commanding officer?
> Then there's the part where he says that he knows they will slaughter him and every member of the resistance that they can find. So there you have motive and backstory. Shut up.
Calm down. Star Wars is just a movie; its lacking characterization is not an insult to you peresonally.
He was taken from his family before he knew them. Young adopted children bond with their foster parents. Finn, being raised by the Order, would view them as his new family, and his cohorts as his friends.
When everyone you've ever known tells you that the population of Planet X is a threat to the wellbeing of everything you know exists, you go over there and kill them, and then you kill their children, because they aren't even human to you.
To contradict this, again, we'd have to have more movie explaining why Finn thinks the Order's enemies are more worthy than the order (everyone he likes). There is no reason to see civilian executions as evil when you believe that they are complicit in the destruction of your once-great empire.
>>63973231
>Finn has some reason to defect - his impending death at the hands of phasma - but no reason whatsoever to immediately begin murdering his fellow soldiers.
I read the rest of your post but it's fucking pointless when you show right here why he has reason to kill stormtroopers. He can't defect and escape without returning fire. You accept he had to leave right then because of Phasma so you want him to escape while getting shot at and doing nothing about it.
You get so focused on the Nazi thing you completely ignored it's context. The First Order is not literally Nazis, but I showed how religious cults, terrorists, and Nazis all have defectors. I included two examples with indoctrination. I included three examples because they all serve my point without being an exact copy of Star Wars because it's not real. You pointed out how a metaphorical example isn't literally true, and by definition they never are.
You assume Finn has friends, that he feels like the other stormtroopers are his brothers in arms. This is never shown. Finn's parents weren't supporters of the First Order. And you think because he's been trained his whole life he should never leave. You can only doing that by completely ignoring my point about indoctrinated groups having people leave. Scientologists that were born into the group have left, brainwashing isn't perfect anon.
Why was a janitor given Stormtrooper armour and sent out to battle in the first place?
>>63974054
i have a feeling this was left on the cutting room floor
>>63973568
for the love of christ how are people THIS retarded
>took a bowcaster bolt to the dick
>tired out after kicking the shit out of finn
>snoke said himself that his training isn't complete
>>63970509
Poe had already given up the information about the droid,he was pretty much fucked and had nothing to lose. He seems like the type to take the gamble, too.
The real question is why the fuck did he leave Jakku without looking for BB-8?
>>63973568
>Fin doesn't show any of the training you'd expect him to have, it's like he joined the Storm Troopers yesterday.
>Rey becomes a jedi within a few minutes of learning of a jedi mind trick.
>Kylo, like Fin, shows nothing about his years of training, as he's bested by a couple of people who have just picked up a lightsaber for the first time.
I may be overthinking it without too much proof to back it up, but I think this is something to do with JJ Abrams. He doesn't really give a shit about the time it takes for someone to get good at something. He seems to abhor training montages or learning curves, and characters just gain skills because they need to.
>Rey can barely get the Falcon to take off
>Seconds later she's flying it through the interior of a Star Destroyer and pulling off and insane flip maneuver
>Finn fights a guy with the lightsaber once
>next time he uses it he can hold his own against a trained sith
>Rey picks up the lightsaber for the first time
>beats Kylo (who admittedly has gotten the shit kicked out of him at this point, not that it shows in the choreography)
>Finn worked in sanitation
>knows the layout of the whole planet
Star Trek movies
>every character
>is just instantly super good at whatever the script needs him to do, be it ninja sword fighting, base jumping from orbit, manually targeting the warp beam, or shooting through space like a torpedo
Nothing may break the flow of the movie or get in the way of and EPIC and ENERGETIC setpiece. Just have the character be able to pull off whatever, as long as it looks cool. The goyim only care for explosions and punchlines anyway.
>>63975967
>next time he uses it he can hold his own against a trained sith
Did you think Luke was holding his own in Empire?
And Kylo isn't a sith but you just mean trained dark side user, I get that.
>>63969304
He got shot. He wasn't at full power. Had he been, he'd have rekt shop.
I think it was a perfectly reasonable explanation for how the fight was interesting.
>>63969365
I was hoping Maz would be more Yoda like
>>63970121
>Knows how to bullshit and lie
You may otherwise have a point but this is something you absolutely would learn spending years in a military setting
>>63976832
>Did you think Luke was holding his own in Empire?
I suppose he did. The difference is he had spent half the movie in training to get in touch with the force and shit, though he failed in the end when he chose to go to Bespin instead of staying with Yoda. There's even possible ceramics between that and the fight. with Luke doing well at first before losing focus and failing. Finn just picks up the sword and starts stabbing.
>>63977189
Everything about the cantina was weird.
>>63977251
Finn wasn't fighting Darth Vader, the flaw in your reasoning is you're implying Kylo Ren is Vader tier.
Finn and Luke aren't holding their own, they're being toyed with. Kylo and Vader use these powerful and obvious slashes. Vader just starts throwing wall decorations at Luke, Kylo specifically pays Finn back for the small hit on his shoulder in the same area. When Vader is done, he just cuts off Luke's saber hand. Likewise Kylo paralyzes the guy when he's over the fight.
>>63973231
>It is utterly inconceivable that humans indoctrinated from birth would ever, EVER go against their indoctrination
>people indoctrinated into religious faiths never, ever defect
Are you literally retarded?
This is the one thing SW7 did right, then they fucked it up real bad with the escape scene.
