Finn's behavior escaping the Star Destroyer completely ruined my suspension of disbelief and had me hating the entire film in the first 20 min. I understand him suffering shellshock from the violence of war, but murdering dozens of his fellow soldiers and aiding an enemy agent without absolutely any character development whatsoever to explain why he would do this? He just held one of his brothers in arms, his helmet covered in the other man's blood, and then he turns around and man's a cannon on a tie fighter blasting away dozens of the same brothers he was raised with and trained with his entire life? For what because it's "the right thing to do"? It's bullshit sloppy writing. I could forgive so many plot holes and issues with the story, but Finn's motivations are a glaring problem, it's simply not how soldiers behave, and if he were going to do all those things, the writers should have given us a damn good reason why he would mutiny and flee
Yup.
Gotta blow shit up 20 minutes in or ???
>without absolutely any character development whatsoever
I bet you like the prequels
Thanks for the 1 billionth thread on this fucking movie that you easily could have posted in another thread
>>63951101
>and then he turns around and man's a cannon on a tie fighter blasting away dozens of the same brothers he was raised with and trained with his entire life?
It's called not wanting to be shot and killed.
>>63951151
what a non-post
please fuck off to reddit
>>63951165
I'm pretty sure they caused that problem by failing to escape stealthily.
Why wouldn't po the great pilot know about Tie fighter docking cables?
>>63951101
Well to be fair those stormtroopers in the dock weren't his friends. He had sanitation remember? Its still pretty fucked up though, even if he didn't know them. It was weird, I thought they tried to just glide past that part without really acknowledging what happened.
I have about as much respect for Cuck Wars as I do for the dog shit on my shoe.
It is Reddit, it is capeshit, it is cheeto dust, it is video games. It's nothing more than meme's enjoyed by simplistic pledditors. Ihave ZERO respect for people who are not free thinkers and blindly enjoy the capeshit redditory Reddit show that is The Force Awakens.
I'm literally screaming, slamming my arms on my desk right now just thinking about it....
>>63951101
OP is correct
>Refuse to murder innocent people
>Killing people attempting to murder you for escaping because you don't want to murder innocent people is hypocritical
you guys are so fucking retarded
>>63951229
That whole sequence happened just to get the fighter shot down
Lazy. They could even had had an epic tie fighter battle instead.
>>63951101
It was the will of the Force.
>>63951213
Because he doesn't work for the First Order?
It's stupid, and makes no sense. There are war movies where soldiers switch sides and it's a painful complex experience wrought with suffering and internal conflict, like In "Tae guk gu". I know it's star wars and it's supposed to be cheesy, but this was worse than the prequels. The clone troopers were humanized, carried wounded members away and acted like well, real soldiers. It was one of the only steps in the right direction the prequels took. TFA went back to the nonsense, storm troopers as cannon fodder, or like cartoon COBRA soldiers. Which is absurd when the same writers are trying to sell us Finn, ex stormtrooper as a conscientious human being. What about the thousands of others? They're reasons for dying by each others' sides or even their internal conflicts about the morality of what they do or don't do. Shouldn't Finn hesitate in killing his own? Especially in the beginning. Maybe he could work his way up to killing storm troopers by the end, but in the first five seconds as he flees? It's such bad writing that it ruins the entire film.
>>63951279
this
>>63951101
the the entire dialog of TFA is shit trash I can't stand it.
>me black man go to see star wars by myself
>excited to see film and first black jedi lead
>find out he really is dindu nuffin comic relief
>driving home after movie stop at gas station
>buy 4 litre gas can
>proceed to chug
i was cut real deep man honest, at least respect lando, he didnt live for future coons lol
>>63951165
I got the impression that the First Order treated him like shit and he was getting revenge after the closest thing to a friend he had just got blasted in front of him just to kill a bunch of villagers, plus they suspected him and you know what happens to bad soldiers with the Sith
>>63951279
He left the Order because it wasn't "right", not because he was about to die
>>63951101
>I'm going to project a lot of emotions and motivations on a character I know little about and then be angry when they don't meet my headcanon!
ok
Yeah it was one of the few things I didn't dig too much, tho it would have been hard to pull of any way they did it.
Doing a gradual slow shift toward "good" would have taken too long when they had to build the other 3 new hero's and villain at the same time.
The other way is if they down played the rigid structure of being a storm trooper, like if they were not as cookie cutter and indoctrinated, but that would require a complete overhall of the first order.
So yeah, it was kind of weird that every other storm trooper would kill on order instantly, with no regret like robots, and he is a giant care bear.
Only other thing i didn't like was it ruins the victory of ep.6, pretty much says the empire is still in command and rebels are still resistance
>>63951256
I agree with you, it is all childrens' capeshit trash. Hence suspension of disbelief. It's ok to enjoy trash every once and a while, especially if it is connected to childhood. You can watch a movie for two hours on a Friday night and go back to regular life and not be a chode, or a 'free thinker', which sounds like you are all day. You know people who have to point out that they have class? Same with 'free thinkers'
>train as an expert marksman in the elite 1st order
>be assigned garbage duty
This is relateable to kids who have to do chores and wish they could rise up against the parentals.
Why would anyone want to not be a stormtrooper?
You get to witness Kylo Ren have temper tantrums and shit like that. Plus you get to fly tiefighters and play with cool weapons.
>>63951343
Think about how stupid that is.
OK, maybe they didn't give him the codes or whatever, but he should at least have known this tie fighter escape was like 99% gonna get them killed.
Would have been better if they just used an escape pod frankly
>>63951101
Not only that but if he was indoctrinated to obey the First Order since he was a kid how come he suddenly turned into a completely normal person?
I mean at that point he should be perfectly fine with killing innocent people and so on...
>>63951279
Narratively speaking they could've avoided the conflict by writing a different way for them to escape which perhaps revolves around sneaking off.
We already have two canon instances of similar escapes.
In ESB han escapes imperials by pretending his ship is garbage. Granted he was never inside a star destroyer but you can easily bs a way for Finn to use his "sanitation" skills to access garbage disposal and hide on some lander disgused as garbage.
In TPM Kenobi and Jinn escape by hiding on a troop lander.
There was no need for him to go YEEEHAAAWWW as he was blasting away dozens of people he literally grew up with and was cozy with only a day before.
He didn't even think twice about it or reference it at any point which is peculiar for someone who was initially so shocked by violence.
>>63951101
this was my exact reaction. the film and characters aren't coherently motivated in any kind of satisfying way.
>>63951551
2deep4u
>man was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into believing he was fighting a righteous cause for the good of all the Empire's citizens
>man realizes he was brainwashed when he was ordered to slaughter a bunch of unarmed citizens
>man deduces people who slaughter unarmed citizens are his enemy
>man frees Resistance commander with the intention to escape and defect or flee for his freedom
All explained in the first 10 minutes, maybe less.
>>63951516
Because Captain Phasma is a shitty officer who does a shitty job. This is evident all throughout the film, and all she is good for is meeting quotas.
>This guy looked like he fucked up.
>I-it was his first offense...
Bitch is on a top secret mission to go after Luke Skywalker and shes sleeping through her job.
>>63951516
My point exactly. It's bad writing. I tried to enjoy the film after that, I really did. But it was infuriating. Insulting to the intelligence of the entire audience. Plotholes are one thing, but characters behaving in ways that are completely at odds with the way human beings behave is like nails on a chalkboard and pulls people out of the narrative
>>63951469
it's not headcannon it's the explicit information we're given about finn and his choices which don't follow any semblence of logic
>>63951101
I agree that it was pretty egregious pacing, but it's not as if they couldn't have justified it within the context they chose, and it was pretty clear they had more important shit to get to, so I let it slide.
>>63951516
>Not only that but if he was indoctrinated to obey the First Order since he was a kid how come he suddenly turned into a completely normal person?
Well clearly it doesn't always work when they talk about him they talk like desertions have happened before.
>shoulda just used clones
>>63951511
You're essentially cannon fodder that's liable to be team killed, your blaster is a carbine compared to the Resistance's actual rifle, the helmet gives shit visibility, you completely stand out in any environment because the New Order hates camouflage and your biological parents were most likely killed by the people you work for.
>>63951707
Its clearly a longstanding issue if Kylo "I'm not allowed to actually do anything to my employees" Ren brings it up
Is Captain Phasma the most mainstream tsundere character.
*I...it's not like I wanted to lower the shields or anything, baka.*
>>63951680
Yeah they had to do 3 big things in this movie
>get new characters in
>Tell us about the old ones
>set up a new story
It mirrors alot of ANH but had more to do
I hope this is the only one with that fast of pacing. It was a little too much for my taste, it made a few characters under developed. But we have 2 more movies.
Kinda weird to compare and pick aparrt it to to whol trios desu. It's just a part.
>>63951101
>He just held one of his brothers in arms, his helmet covered in the other man's blood, and then he turns around and man's a cannon on a tie fighter blasting away dozens of the same brothers he was raised with and trained with his entire life?
Maybe that was the only true friend he had in the order? Maybe they both shared similar mentalities in regards to morals and shit?
While I agree that him outright killing fellow troopers in cold blood at times seemed wrong, his reasons for leaving the order weren't. There's a clear difference between killing involved soldiers and innocent civilians who had nothing to do with it.
>>63951101
How does his character not develop throughout the film though that supports his initial actions? I get what you're saying but I'd argue that the traits his character has support his behavior at the beginning of the film.
>>63951744
If she has no impact in future films i will be fucking upset.
>Lucas doesn't realise how cool boba was
>kills him off lamely
>Makes prequels
>Oh they liked boba so let's ruin him and make him the clone army.
>kill him lamely
least he got some scenes.
Can't imagine they meant for her to have THAT Small of a role
>>63951101
Because it doesn't make sense for his character to feel remorse. They fucking spell it out for you. He's not leaving because he's disgusted by violence, he's leaving because he's pissed his pants with fear and his superiors already know it.
>>63951862
I get what OP is say I g though. I think he just doesn't understand that we see why he does that at the begginung
>>63951862
This he doesn;t suddenly go
>i now want to help the rebels
He is scared of death and just wants to fucking run. He is somewhat the Solo Arc.
>i don't care i just want X
>>63951952
This.
He doesn't really give a shit about anyone but himself when he starts off. Sure, he says he wants to do good, but he's just trying to convince people to side for his cause. Solo did the same shit in the original trilogy.
>>63951453
This.
The novel portrays him as an excellent cadet, with top grades everywhere, especially in marksmanship. However, he was singled out for alwys trying to save his comrades, while Phasma basically told him to leave them to die.
That was the starting point of him thinking about leaving.
Then the village happened, and indeed, he knew that if his blaster showed that no shot had been fired, he would have been recondutionned, and I'm guessing it's not the nicest thing in the FO.
>>63951101
>of the same brothers he was raised with and trained with his entire life?
Yeah he's motivations are a problem.
He was a fun character, but he needed to be something different.
He can't have been raised with those people his entire life and just betray them like that on a whim.
>>63951256
Then why are you even here, dear autistic child?
>>63951511
If you're really lucky you get a traitorstick and get to beat down traitors.
Fuck that's a sweet gig.
>>63952157
They clearly state the conditioning doesn't always work. They aren't like the clones
Unless
>admitting to reconditioning
Was just a joke
>>63952098
>with top grades everywhere
Character ruined.
>>63951101
He should have shot at the coupling to let them escape to be truthful. You didn't even see Poe do anything to disconnect it, it just disconnects after Finn kills enough dudes.
>>63951744
She folded like a cheap suit. I fully expect her to turn good guy / independent by the end of this trilogy simply to avoid utter disgrace.
>>63952264
They break it off by repeated jutting foward and blowing up the mooring
>>63952098
Why did they not include a lot of the background stuff from the novel? All they had to do is have one dialogue line of a FO officer saying he would try to save his comrades and that fixes it.
>>63952201
Living the dream.
>>63952343
Nah, Poe starts pressing things wildly and the then you see it break off before the Tie Fighter moves for the fourth time.
>>63952348
This. Needing to read the novel to fix the shitty movie, doesnt actually fix the shitty movie. From what we get in screen, Finns entire character is dumb as hell and then quickly left to basically sit in the background in favor of Han, Rey and Tantrums.
>>63951631
>Man realizes he was brainwashed
That's the thing, that shouldn't happen. That's literally the point of brainwashing. I'm ok with humanizing the storm troopers, but don't just do it suddenly. Give a little back story, show
Finn working as sanitation and gaining a few friends while facing a harsh Phasma (this would also give more purpose to her character). Then, for whatever reason, he gets called to the battle field with no preparation. Then we could sympathize with his shock at seeing a friend die, and understand that, while he has been trained to work for the new order, we was never ready to kill.
>>63952437
But that would mean less screen time for Rey doing cool stuff.
>>63952363
gotta improve that shop or something, shit's unworthy of posting as it is
>>63951551
dumb frogposter
>>63952382
after blowing up that Hangar command deck, Finn says ' Could make sense that blowing that up disconnects moorings
Or maybe without permittance they can't take off? because Pao then clicks something right before it falls off
>>63952431
See
>>63952227
It's pretty clear he is not the only trooper to break conditioning it does make anything shitty nor is it a plot hole it is explained
>>63952609
Fuck my life
after blowing up that Hangar command deck, Finn says' i got it'
>>63952437
Actually this would be great. Would add a little originality. It would be very interesting to have the movie start as a fast paced chronicle of a storm trooper. It wouldn't have to take up much time at all, just show snippets of days where Finn gains a few close friends but takes shit from Phasma all the time. He shows promise as a fighter but gets stuck in sanitation. He goes to fight completely unwillingly and ill-prepared and is completely fearful. Seeing he is friend die sends him over the edge. Boom. Now Phasma has a point, and Finn's actions are justified. This cloud help smooth the pacing of the beginning as well
>>63951101
>realize it could be you that dies and no one would care
>know your boss is a fucked up dark side jedi
>get ordered to execute prisoners
Yeah I'd escape too, and that would mean killing some stormtroopers. As soon as Finn frees Poe he isn't a stormtrooper anymore. It's not him vs his comrades, it's him vs people trying to shoot him.
>Movie trying to argue morality is intrinsic
Kek, so why did no one in the Aztec Empire feel it was wrong to practice human sacrifice? Shouldn't their intrinsic moral compassion override society telling them it's a moral good?
>>63951355
>counting the cgi show
>implying the clones weren't disposable in the movies
Stormtroopers shoot at them, what's Finn supposed to do? "Sorry Poe, I'm just not emotionally ready to return fire so we have to die in this hangar."
You aren't impressing anyone by acting like the prequels are better than TFA or that TFA has glaring flaws that ruin the movie.
>>63952809
Because they had no concept of universal humanity. 'They' were the top of the food chain and everyone else exists to get fucked.
>>63952809
They literally state that it happens with the Troopers. you dumb nignog
It's admittedly one of the weaker aspects of the movie. However, for the kids 6-10 just getting into Star Wars for the first time I think it will be mostly overlooked.
>>63952944
Literally what I said family, the movie wants us to believe people can be morally good even when society only teaches a universal evil and calls it good.
>>63951101
>needing motivation for leaving forced military service
fuck off with your honor bullshit army fag finn wasnt even a full soldier and owed no allegiance to his constrictors
>>63951101
Did you even watch the fucking movie you reatard? He did it because someone drew a Galactic Empire symbol with shit in the stormtroopers' bathroom. He couldn't stomach the injustice anymore.
>>63953251
>First Order steals Padjeet from his loving family
>raise him to be a stormtrooper
>despite programming he refuses too poor in the loo
>>63952098
This is fantastic. Actually cool. The only thing is, the movie told us none of this. The novel might as well have been expanded universe. The film has to stand on its own merits and it doesn't. Maybe if this is addressed in the 2nd film, I can forgive them not mentioning it in the first
Fucking combat trauma and PTSD dont belong in a fucking Star Wars movie. The tone of the entire movie was completely off.
>>63951101
Yeah, really didn't like that he had no internal conflict about killing his former friends. It could've created some really interesting tension between him, who might want to save some stormtroopers and the others who see them as faceless fodder. JJ really went the lazy route here.
Having a stormtrooper hero was an opportunity - the stormtroopers really should've been humanized more. We could've seen a bit of Finn's life with the Order, it would've also given context to his weird, awkward behavior and why he defected.
Also I think that at the end he could've convinced some of his stromtrooper friends on the Starkiller to defect as well and lower the shields, instead of the stuff with captain Phasma.
>>63954775
>Yeah, really didn't like that he had no internal conflict about killing his former friends. I
>freinds
He deflected because He didn't want to die and be forgotten. And as for humanzing they state that Finn is by far not even close to the first defector to the conditioning
>>63954913
> standing up for lazy writing
Given the info from the film only, what he does is never explained or given any reason, and then he's just kinda there the rest of the movie.
>>63955162
>Given the info from the film only, what he does is never explained or given any reason, and then he's just kinda there the rest of the movie.
Did you miss the part where they were going to recondition him? When they were talking about who the defector was? the fact they acknowledge some of the mindwashing doesn't work?
>>63955340
And? That still doesnt handwave away why he joined up with the dude who just killed his squad mates and then proceeded to kill them without any hesitation.
>>63951101
He was probably going to be killed though. They were going to check his blaster to see that he didn't fire on the villagers.
>>63955446
Reconditioned =/= killed, and if it did why would he not just fire and miss? Youd think your life on the line youd remember to cover your ass... and hes obviously not an idiot since he got placed on Kylos personal squad.
One line or scene could have resolved this and given Finn a great arc. But they didn't bother, too busy remaking A New Hope.
That said, all this movie needs are a few fixes. The prequels are entirely beyond salvageable.
>>63955421
He didn't care about his squad mates because he just saw them slaughter a whole fucking village of innocents. And then stood there in disbelief afterwards. Are we watching the same fucking movie?
Did they really need to have a 5 minute exposition scene of dialogue to explain for the retards like you?
>join up with the dude
He did because he both would want off as well and could fly, Fin then spends the rest of the film trying to escape just the NO not join the rebellion, that happens later like Han Solo in IV
and
>>63955446
This, though i t was said he'd be sent to be 'reconditioned' which is undoubtedly torture and mindwashing
>>63951511
You're made to follow orders from a wildly incompetent affirmative action cunt.
>>63955630
Yeah we watched the same fucking movie. If it wasnt the death of his squad mate that was the focus of that scene then JJ did a shit job directing, no matter how hesitant to fire he was. And if he wasnt completely loyal and battle tested how the hell did he end up in Kylos gaurd to begin with? Face it m8, Finns whole arc is worse than Laras in the awful Tonb Raider reboot.
>>63952302
The alternative would be her needing to die at some point, and we all know SJWs go completely apeshit whenever a female dies.
>>63951101
it's not much that finn killed his fellow storm trooper. It's the fact that he kill them with huge enthusiasm and excitement. He was happily partnered with the guy who killed his best friend (?) and and went awwww yeaaaaa when he blast more stormtroopers down. I thought it would be better if he show some remorse in having to do it to aid his own escape.
>>63955986
It was both retard. Him suddenly leaving the NO because a freind dies and not genocide makes no fucking sense. Losing maybe what was a freind AND seeing civies get cut down makes sense for him to want out. His conditioning failed. It must be painful to be you. are you a functioning retard? Or one of them stay at home kind of retards?
>>63952098
Wow, if only that were in the fucking movie.
If it's the only life he ever knew, why would he feel he was being mistreated?
>>63956169
If both, why did he spend the rest of the movie gleefully killing more troopers?
>>63952729
While I agree with you as a fan, as a Producer I would look at this on the outline and immediately deem it too expensive.
>>63956204
Because maybe the one that died was the only one he cared about? And seeing them wipe out Innocents made him digusted by all of them?
>>63956269
Or maybe its just really fucking flimsy writing/editing? My guess is all the pieces that make it fit together are on the cutting room floor so we could have more ACTION
>>63951101
Held his brother in arms sure, but then he watched the rest kill innocent people.
How do you not comprehend this? You just hate any movie you that you don't understand? Must suck.
>>63956265
They didn't have any problems with the budget. It's a film guaranteed to make a quadrillion dollars, there's no way JJ was refused anything for the sake of cutting costs.
And anyway they could've easily cut a few explosions for a scene like this.
>>63951844
>30 minutes fight against Kenobi is lame
It's always funny to see what retarded mental gymnastics people do to shit on the prequels. And now they like this J.J. Abrams stinker.
People are retarded.
>>63955609
The prequels are a million times better than this shit so far. You're blinded by nostalgia and the old actors and music, the only good part of this mess.
Glad to see there are new Star Wars movies now and autists actually liking them. Gives mie confirmation I should never take prequel shitposters seriously again.
The disgusting cast with Darth Potato, the fatal alcohol syndrome girl, the Spanish guy acting and talking awkwardly gay the whole time with pointless, gay lines and the nigger ugly even for nigger standards is proof enough that this movie is even worse than Episode I.
