So, did nobody tell him that Vader rejected the darkside and redeemed himself in his final moments? Can't force ghost Anakin just give him the memo?
He respects Vader, not Anakin
>>63950441
The similiarty to the fanbase is becoming undeniable
>>63950384
That was the first thing I thought about when Han confronted him near the end. Kylo said it was too late for him, and Han told him it's never too late. Should have told him even Vader was saved and rejected the dark side at the very end.
>Anakin force ghost
Good news, anon.
>>63950384
He knows. And he sees that as Vader's one failing, that he didn't have the conviction to stick with the Dark Side and rule the galaxy.
>>63950384
NOVEL
IZATION
EXPLAINS IT
>>63950384
He knows. He's obsessed with Vader and considers his redemption and momentary lapse in judgment.
>>63950384
Vader didn't reject it.
He just throw down Sheev to become Emperor himself.
>>63950492
You need to re-watch that scene and realize that while Han and the audience is led to think that he's talking about wanting to redeem himself, Kylo Ren is actually explaining how he wants to complete his journey into the Dark Side and get rid of that conscience and doubt about it.
>There's something I need to do
>You're the only one that can help me
>>63950492
How would Han have known that?
It's possible that Luke never shared exactly what happened in Sheevy's throne room.
That's why Kylo is struggling with the Light, he's unsure of himself, because to him Anakin under the light ended up dying, while Vader under the dark ended up slaughtering the Jedi and becoming one of the most powerful and feared beings in the galaxy.
To him Vader was the power he sought, the legacy he wanted, while Anakin was just a Jedi to him that was seemingly lost to Order 66 and forgotten.
>>63950569
This. Only Luke and ghosts knew
Well considering Anakin did in fact turn into a force ghost and those are known to linger around and offer sage advice you'd think Anakin would pop up next to him and tell him he's acting like a total dumbass.
Even if Kylo doesn't take his advice Anakin could still pop up from time to time to remind him that he's a dumbass.
>>63950492
It wouldn't have worked for Kylo. He has too much of a conscience to forgive himself, he's fucked either way. It really is too late for him
>>63950545
Vader definitely rejected it, he threw the Emperor down the reactor shaft because he was tired of seeing Luke getting Force Lightninged. He remembers that pain.
>>63950476
its the only way to keep the show going
i dont think they GAF about the parallels
>>63950565
I don't agree. It was ambiguous to the audience because it was ambiguous to Kylo. If it wasn't for the star killer sucking out the sun it could've easily gone the other way, which is what is so great about that scene.
>>63950600
I posted this in another thread, but it'd be funny if that's actually the "temptation of the light" that Kylo talks about.
>>63950384
He sees Vader as being seduced by the light at the end and not finishing what he started. Kylo wants to avoid what he sees as Vaders mistake (letting his old self come back) to actually pull off wiping out the Jedi once and for all.
>>63950600
Anakin doesn't wanna deal with that shit probably.
>>63950384
What if he had a vision? Like Anakin.
>>63950647
Huh. I interpret Kylo Ren's character as flipping the entire typical arc of a Jedi falling to the Dark Side on its head. (in that he knows EXACTLY what he's doing, that it's wrong and hurting people who care about him and he does it anyways because he's been brainwashed to see that pain and suffering as a good thing), and interpreted that scene as playing in it.
But that works too.
>>63950569
>>63950597
Yup. Even if Luke had spread that shit around (he probably didn't) why would anyone believe him?
>tfw Han touching his cheek is what keeps the doubt alive
Kylo going to be a Jedi by the end of episode VIII.
>>63950545
>>63950612
Kids, don't fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY0j9SUdOKU
>>63950697
This, no one would have believed Luke. There is a reason he burns Vader's body alone.
Nobody probably even knew he brought it back. To everyone else Vader was just an evil Sith that Luke managed to kill or die in the Death Star II explosion.
Nobody but Luke knows the truth, maybe Leia through the Force, but that's it.
>>63950612
>phobia of lightings =\= rejections of power that made him who he is
Where does it clearly state that he rejected it?
He just saved his son - which is a normal act for a father wether you are evil dark lord or goody-shoes paladin.
>>63950706
Rise and Fall of Lord Vader and the Episode 3 Novelization after he's in the suit with his thoughts are very good interpretations of Vader.
>>63950647
The only ambiguity is in the minds of the viewer.
>I'm torn
Between the light and the dark
>I know what must be done but I don't know if I can do it
I know I have to kill you but I don't know if I can do it
>I need your help
I need to to make it okay for me to kill you
>he pulls out the lightsaber and Han tries to take it away, but he won't let go
LITERAL PERSONIFICATION OF THE INTENDED MISINTERPRETATION
>after killing Han he says "thank you"
Literally, thank you for helping stop me from being torn.
It's not even subtle.
>>63950773
The Sith save no one. That's clearly an active defiance of the Sith ways and that of the Dark Side.
Besides there is a reason Luke drives home the fact that "There is still good in you, I can feel it."
>>63950789
Again, it could've easily taken the meaning of abandoning the dark side, the star killer shifted the balance
>>63950738
>maybe Leia
You don't think Luke would share with his sister that he redeemed their father and turned him to the light side before he died?
Nigga pls.
>>63950830
You're a retard.
>>63950773
Did you completely forget Vader talking to Luke without his helmet right before he dies?
>>63950853
You're already locked on one view of it so why bother discussing it? It's clear that the moment hangs in a percarious balance, then the balance shifts and the Order insists itself on the moment, and Kylo makes his decision.
http://ca.ign.com/videos/2015/12/18/jj-abrams-explains-why-kylo-ren-turned-to-the-dark-side
>>63950829
>Sith save no one
Then Sheev would never save Anakin in the first place. It's not about the side of the force. Qui gon jinn never affiliate hmslf with any side of the force thought he fought for Jedi. And in the end he became the first one with the force
>>63950384
The Death Star blew up, the only one who survived was Luke. For everyone else Vader was the bad guy until the end.
>>63950929
/thread
>>63950384
> implying he didn't know this
> implying that he identified sentimentality as vaders ultimate hubris
>implying his knowledge of this fuels his pursuit of immunity from the light
kylo ren will become the strongest dark side user of the franchise
>>63950979
Sidious only saved Anakin in order to turn him, the complete opposite of what Vader did for Luke.
Also Qui-Gon affiliated himself with the Light, he may have disobeyed the Jedi and acted as a Maverick, but he was one with the Force through and through, all about the Light.
>>63950928
That is what I am saying you fucking retard. Kylo can't make up his mind between the light and the dark and they just goes full ham and kills Han.
>before he kills Han
Wants to be dark side, but he still has the light side and he needs to kill Han to go to the dark side.
Even the fucking lighting queues tell you this. Did you notice that the lights on the bridge changed during that scene?
>>63950565
fucking THIS
The words Kylo says can mean either he wants to go back to the light or remain in the dark, I think he's not exactly sure what he wants right when he says them, which is why his words are non-committal to either side, but by the time the shadow rolls in he's certainly only concerned with killing whatever makes him question his path. Kylo almost returned to the light there, but makes a physical decision that keeps him in the dark, on purpose. The dude has a conflict and all he wants to do is remove the conflict from his life, therefore he will kill the people that makes him doubt himself.
Honestly this film is so obvious and clear, I've been on this board for so long but not until the shit I hear people say about TFA do I really grasp how 14-years-old some of you fuckers are. This is not an interpretive movie, it's pretty fucking clear what's going on. Please pay attention.
>>63950600
>climax confrontation between ben and han solo on the bridge
>anakin ghost shows up
>UM ACKSHUALLY
>>63951083
You're literally too stupid to understand what I'm saying. At that point he has two choices to resolve his conflict:
1. Kill Han and abandon whatever connection he has left to the light
2, Join Han and abandon the dark side
It's clear he's tempted by both, but for some reason you're locked on option #1. Rewatch the scene with that in mind and you'll see that it holds up just as well if not more, and becomes much more powerful.
>>63950738
>>63950852
Vader even asks Luke to tell Leia what happened, and that he was right about him (Vader).
>>63950441
>le ebic vader isn't anakin maymay
>>63950565
thank you. people also thinking bb8 gave finn a thumbs up dont get context clues, he was giving him the bird
>>63951067
DELETE THIS
>>63951242
Even Yoda and Obi-Wan themselves say it.
>Killed by Darth Vader
>Gone the boy you trained is, consumed by Darth Vader he has
>>63951140
>>63950565
>>63951189
naw son
it's even better: he's already thinking double agent
he has to kill han to convince soonk that's he's dark as fuck
he has to even convince himself
but what he worships about vader is actually that he restored the balance. why else would he confide talking to the vader helmet that snook was 'on to him' in his conflict? why would you ask the dude who fucked everything up for the dark side for help in hiding your temptation to go light?
>No redemption for Kylo
>In a Disney movie
>being this much in denial
>>63952296
He;s responsible for the deaths of trillions of people though...
>>63950384
Kylo knows Vader went good, and that's precisely why he kills Han.
He very clearly tells Han to helm him (join the dark side) by letting him kill him.
Kylo remembers how Anakin defected to the light and tries hard not to do the same, and succeeds.
its been said numerous times already but Snoke even brings it up to Kylo that he still isn't 100% committed to the dark side and the light is still calling to him.
>>63951242
Two parts of the same man
>>63954050
He still has Leia though. Maybe completing his training is him killing his mom too? They already know where the rebels are.
>>63954349
I hope because Leia was by far the worst character in TFA, and Carrie by far the worst actress.
>>63954387
For someone as drug-addled and crazy as she is, her acting was great.
Plagueis used to be a chill guy who liked to read books and controversially use forbidden darkside tech to create and sustain life, which was anathema to the Jedi council and their hegemony with the Senate. Palpatine grew tired of Plagueis' inaction and assassinated him.
Later, Palpatine turns one of Plagueis' creations ( Anakin/Vader ) towards inverting the status quo and elevating the Sith to rule the galaxy. Palpatine is later killed, but Vader dies in the process.
Plagueis takes over the dead body of Vader and rises again, dead set on taking revenge on the galactic senate which was the cause of his original suffering. To this end he employs the offspring of his creation.
At the end, with all hope of an organized galactic government forever abolished, Plagueis can finally get back to reading and watering plants.
>>63954387
>worst character
nah m8, that's still a toss-up between Kyle and teh Rei
>>63954449
Is this EU bullshit? Be honest anon
>>63950384
Considering Luke trained him, I would have thought the first thing he'd mention is. "Anyone can be redeemed, I brought my father who was Darth Vader back to the Light!"
>"Son, I love you!"
>"I know..."
>:lightsaber stab:
Literally walked out of the theater after that, too much poetry.
>>63954638
>thingsthatdidnthappen.jpg
>>63954566
It's prequel overarching story thread. The thing about Snoke being Plagueis in Vader's body is conjecture based off his scarring matching the helmet damage.
Kinda on topic but did Luke ever tell Leia Vader was their Father? Can't remember also wondering how she took it.
>>63950384
>vader redeemed himself
>killing sheev sheeverson makes up for the murder of dozens of innocent kids along with millions of citizens on alderaan
wait really? Like people actually think like this?
>>63951242
Abrams even said that you retard.
>>63953799
Vader wasn't?
>>63954809
I think wanting to be saved was enough like in Christianity or some shit
>>63954809
Tarkin gave the order to blow up Alderaan.
>>63954800
Yes, he tells Leia they are siblings and that he is going to face Vader, his father.
>>63954535
shit taste
kylo is easily the best new character
>>63954894
He had a few faggy moments though mostly the times when he had his helmet off.
>>63954535
>Kylo
>bad
Kylo Ren was probably one of the better characters of the film and I'm really eager to see how his character grows in the sequels and how far falls and if he can even be redeemed. I never thought I'd be saying that about the bastard whokills Han
>>63950384
I don't think Force Ghosts are visible to just anyone.
>>63950789
Except it was. Why else would people be wondering about Kylo's train of thought?
>>63954943
>faggy
Why does that make him a bad character?
>>63950569
They do hold a funeral for Vader. Luke had to explain something.
>>63950384
You fucktards realize Kylo is going to pull a Prince Zuko and turn good eventually right? The similarities are pretty startling, wouldn't be surprised if they introduce a Uncle Iroh like character in the sequel who guides him in to the right path, otherwise my guess is it will be Luke.
>>63955493
>and turn good eventually right?
Not gonna happen ever, would be too much of a waste
>>63950384
So Vader is to Kylo what Ayn Rand is to retards?
>>63955680
What would be a bigger twist?
>mfw finale is either Kylo sacrificing himself to save the girl and her black friend or Kylo being forgiven by Han's or force ghost even thou he wasn't a Jedi
Nah, he'll eventually learn to use both sides. He's supposed to be some kind of Revan/Darth Caedus mix.
>>63955770
Being so fucking evil he destorys the Order from within, butchering Snoke and setting up a big bad for the next trilogy
>>63955853
Mind you, with a traditional antagonist this wouldn't be possible because it would be considered an unsatisfying conclusion, but since Kylo is basically a dark protagonist the audience would be 100% on board
>>63950830
Jesus christ, no.
>>63950929
Ok what exactly was Vader trying to do? Rule the galaxy? Why does Kylo want to rule the galaxy so bad he would kill his aunt and father despite having obvious qualms. I'm thinking full Jacen Solo. He must have had a vision somehow that showed a galaxy on fire unless he goes dark.
>>63955493
No, Han was his Iroh and he killed him. Zuko only betrayed Iroh which led to his imprisonment and subsequent guilt shaming. Not full on murder. Kylo is going to die by Rey's hands.
>>63956147
>Kylo is going to die by Rey's hands.
I would puke 2bh
>>63956175
If this happens I'm leaving the theater and my life mission will become killing whoever wrote that. Screencap this.
