Mary Sue
>>63948980
Gary
yup
yes star wars is trash
>>63948995
GARY
Luke was shit and got his hand cut off, Rey beat the shit out of the only sith lord in movie who wasn't a hologram
>>63948980
Luke got his ass handed to him all the time, and generally was a fuck up in the first 2 movies.
Yeah, remember when he fights that Tuskan Raider at the beginning of A New Hope and Obiwan runs to help him but then he says I CAN HANDLE MYSELF and then does a backflip and beats the Sand People and then beats them again when they return in greater numbers?
Except Luke is the opposite of a Mary Sue
He constantly fails and is saved by other people through out the entire OT
Even in the final confrontation he fails to defeat the Emperor, Vader does
>>63948980
Bait Desu
>>63949133
>>63949115
>>63949080
Max Landis please go
>Hand cut off
>Nearly killed by the emperor and had to be saved
>>63948980
Shitpost
>>63948980
Yeah, remember in the Empire duel where Luke totally reduced Vader to a disheveled husk of a human being, then sliced off his hand, causing Vader to attempt suicide?
Cause I do.
>>63949045
>sith lord
>>63949045
blowing up a death star > beating up kylo ren
You are a moron.
- Is an outcast on his home planet: an awkward orphan who is too callow to defy his aunt and uncle because they need him for another season of moisture vaporation.
- Gets BTFO by a sandperson and must be bailed out by Obi-Wan Kenobi.
- Is too autistic to understand he's being threatened in the cantina, again is bailed out by Obi-Wan.
- Can't hit the broadside of a barn in the Falcon at first. Solo shoots Tie Fighter after Tie Fighter, and when Luke finally hits when he squeals with glee. Han then alphas him.
- Almost killed by a tentacle monster in a trash compactor. Barely frees himself.
- Generally relies on the help of more seasoned fighters (Han and Chewie) to help him throughout the Death Star sequence.
- By a stroke of luck (or fate?) he pilots a ship in a trench that resembles a canyon back home. He's the only one with the requisite experience to make it through the trench. His galactic redneck past of bullseye-ing womp rats comes in handy, and the Obi-Wan guides him as well.
Luke is not a Mary Sue. He's a developing character with tons of potential, but he's clearly not ready to be a hero from the word 'go'.
>>63948980
Rey would have beat up the tuskans, saved her parents, beat up the aliens in the bar, fought Darth Vader instead of Obi, and WON, fucked Leia, talked to R2-D2 and learned the entire plot 5 minutes into the movie, kicked han solo out of the millenium falcon and flew it herself, busted out of carbonite, mind tricked Jabba, made friends with the ewoks in a cute and quirky way, used a sniper blaster to shoot Bobo Fetts gun out of his hands etc
>>63949174
redditlettermedia pls go
>>63949202
You forgot
>knowing how to Jedi mind trick
>how to fly the falcon better than soldiers fly tie fighters despite never flying the MF before
>knowing as much as the pilot about the MF
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6WmrRVU.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>63949174
Just because Ultra and Frankenstein are shit doesn't mean Max's comments on Rey aren't 100% correct
>>63949289
what movie has disney funded for guilermo recently?
>>63949239
FEMINISM
>>63949289
That's retarded shit dressed up in obtuse wording
>>63948980
0 Connection to the force, he doesnt know how to use it at all
gets easily beaten by vader in V
Is seen running away, can't fight, doesn't get along with every single character he see's
The only thing about Luke was that he was a great pilot. Thats it. Luke is not a Mary Sue at all, even in ROTJ he gets beaten by the emperor.
>>63949289
Yeah
A crappy narrative choice.
>>63948980
It's fairly common knowledge that Luke was a Jesus figure
But at least had fucking flaws and characterization.
>>63949045
Luke blew up the Death Star without using his targeting computer. Gary Stew.
>>63949202
luke
> had a background in being a good pilot
> still almost got blown up by darth vader
> good at nothing other than being a pilot in the first movie
rey
> good mechanic
> genius pilot
> beats trained force user
>>63948980
Womp rats are about 2 meters wide
>>63949202
You're fucking retarded
Rey literally masters the force in seconds
She never once faces a true challenge or obstacle that she cannot beat by herself, without help. Luke relies on others the entire film, and gets beaten by Vader in ESB. Its stupid how OP they made Rey, without any training she can use the force like its nothing.
>>63949395
>having ben help him backseat driver
>Han helping him so he didn't die
>Han even acknowledges it was a real close and one in a million shot
>>63949395
Han Solo smoked the 2 elite TIE fighters on his ass and sent Vader's unique TIE fighter spinning (good trick) off into the stars.
>>63949395
He also had to be saved by Han in the final sequence. Rey is never once put in a position where she can't deal with everything by herself. Even when she is captured she free's herself, using a powerful force technique after just learning what the force was hours before. Its just shitty writing, she is never once challenged to the point where she can't just 1v1 whatever is in front of her.
Luke, did I tell you about Luke? He was just like you. He wanted to be a Jedi and go on adventures. But then he met his dad, who, let's be honest was a bit of a cunt. The funny thing is he managed to redeem him...then he died so Luke failed from a certain point of view. Luke now lives on a shitty old island, and he is you and was a good friend. I say was because I'm dead. I was a good Jedi.
>>63949045
kylo isnt a sith
>>63949289
You can tell of 3, Inniratu, Cuaron and del toro, Del Toro is one who is the butt of the jokes.
>>63949438
>Rey literally masters the force
no she doesn't
>>63949572
Yeah, Mastering implies work and effort involved
>>63949366
Yeah. Luke sucked and its hard to believe he actually won at the end of star wars.
If you only focused on the Luke parts, painful.
Maybe, ROTJ Jabbas palace but even those were just chumps. Dude never presents any mastery or confidence or wisdom and in the end he is just a child whining on the floor to his father.
>>63949534
Okay, not a sith but a trained dark jedi who shows off his force powers in the first scene of the film...
He is built up as powerful, and then is beaten by some chick with 0 force training at all. Its fucking stupid
>>63949539
"I shit on Gary and Mary Sue!"
- Inniratu
>>63949525
kek
Honestly if you want to argue that Rey wasn't the ultimate feminist Mary Sue you should use Anakin.
But even then that was literally the point of his arc and characterization, the perfect Jedi who has everything go his way and is good at everything but completely flips his shit the first time something doesn't. Even then it took him years to get that good.
I can almost guarantee you that is more of a explanation than we'll ever get to why Rey is the best at everything, and they literally can't give her flaws without going against the holy Word of Feminism.
>>63949572
True, she didn't really master it.
She was just automatically the best at it.
Because GIRL POWAH
>>63949606
shut the fuck up. Luke and Yoda training is legendary, him vs Vader on Sky City the same and him vs Vader in the Throne Room is 100 times better than anything in TFA
Are you too autistic to understand that Star Wars is a fantasy film, OP? Its main conceit is The Force, and The Force constantly uses the Skywalker family as a vessel for these galaxy-defining moments.
Rey beating Kylo is a total fluke. Luke blowing up the Death Star was a fluke. They are always up against insurmountable odds, but they somehow find a way to win because it's the will of the universe. It's the main conceit of the entire fucking series.
Some things don't hold up to rational analysis. And these movies won't work for everyone. It's crazy and unbelievable. It wold never happen in reality. But this is fucking Star Wars.
These movies were never meant to be run through the wringer of internet sperg scrutiny. It's romantic. It's a fantasy. How has this eluded so many people?
Rey isn't using the Force in this movie. The Force is using her, just like it used Luke.
Do you even understand Star Wars?
>Lucas
>Lukas
>Lukes
>LukeS
>LUKE SKYWALKER
BRAVO GEORGE
>>63949080
He was still a fuck up in the third movie.
He strutted into Jabba's place like "I'm a big badass jedi" and made a fool out of himself.
>>63949715
wrong
>>63949572
She literally uses it to mind trick a storm trooper, to grab a lightsaber out of the snow, combats Kylo Ren's mind reading e.t.c.
>>63949606
Luke actually has character development and scenes that show how far along he is with his jedi training. Saving himself from the Yetis in V. Then Jabbas Palace in VI.
>>63949743
and he'll be remembered as one of the great characters in history unlike Rey
>>63949715
>Rey isn't using the Force in this movie. The Force is using her, just like it used Luke.
Thats why she could do a jedi mind trick only hours after learning what the force was? Was the force telling her to use the mind trick? That scene was fucking retarded dont even try to defend it
>>63949743
You do realize that the whole thing was planned right? He killed the Rancor, and then was sent out on the barge in order to get Jabba away from his palace, making him more vulnerable. Once everything was set up they put the plan into motion, Luke getting the lightsaber from R2, Leia choking out Jabba e.t.c.
>>63949715
>literally the entirety of episode 4 is about luke wanting to be a pilot, being good at shooting tiny targets, joining the rebels and getting training, until it finally culminates in the climax of the movie
That's not a fluke, that's called a fucking PLOT.
No explanation.
>All the hand-wring by cucks about whether or not we shouldn't "deprive" girls of "brave" characters like Rey
It's actually sort of terrifying that we live in a society where some dumb cartoon action hero is supposed to be an inspiration to people. What the fuck does it inspire, suicidal overconfidence?
>>63949930
Anyone who thinks about it for 5 seconds knows Star Wars characters do absolutely nothing for society.
It's not about whether or not it's actually useful, it's about continuing the circlejerk over how brave you are for having a vagina by any means necessary. That and people defending their shitty taste in art.
>>63949823
Consider what had happened just before the Jedi mind trick...
She had previously believed all of this Force talk was bullshit. She thought Luke was a myth. Then she comes face-to-face with a Force user (Kylo) and she realizes she can tap into that energy.
She's testing the limits of what she can do. She's trying out a trick she probably heard people talk about all the time.
The point of the scene isn't some video-game like leveling-up system. It's that she could break free from those restraints (both metaphorical and literal) at any time if she just believed in the Force. She's capable of WAY more than she ever thought possible, and in a moment of desperation she tries the impossible.
I don't understand why that scene bothers people so much. She's obviously a Skywalker. She's soaked in force power.
All this spergy explaining is so fucking exhausting and boring. You need to go to a temple and have Jedi explain shit to you for years to know how to do a mind trick? You need to put on one of those stupid youngling hats and listen to Yoda drone on and on?
I thought the scene worked really well. She's clearly going to learn how to channel and control her power, but she doesn't need to be taught how to tap into the Force. All it takes is faith, just like Luke blowing up the Death Star.
Temptation and responsibility will come later. But the only thing holding Rey back was her cynicism about the Force. Once she understands that it's real, she finds she can do all kinds of crazy things. That's what makes it so whimsical.
Isn't it just more fun that way?
>>63949534
Dark Jedi and Sith are basically the same fucking thing.
>>63949289
This only applies to very good writers that can make it work, and even then their mary/gary-sueness is worked at (character development or backstory) and kept at a low level.
>>63949872
I don't buy that. The entire time he seemed to be winging it and barely seemed to get by.
If that was really the plan then the plan was retarded with like a million variables.
>>63948980
>feminists originally lauding Rey as being the most badass character in SW and "more of a man than Luke ever was"
>Rey starts being accused of being a Mary Sue
>feminists then turn around and say Luke was unrealistically OP as fuck and a Gary Stu
Make up your minds, cunts.
>>63949715
It's not about what they end up accomplishing, it's about how they get to it. Luke's unbelievable triumph comes after three whole movies of adversity and struggle. This makes his triumph all the sweeter to the audience.
Rey is kicking ass from the get-go and thus people aren't impressed when she accomplishes things. Developing to overcome what is initially insurmountable is the heart of drama, and watching two hours of someone do things with little to no challenge isn't captivating, emotionally resonant, or even remotely interesting.
t. an autist
>>63950076
He's a Knight of Ren. It's different but the same. Like this whole fucking film.
>>63948980
>flawed by experience
>flawed by personality
>flawed by power
vs.
>temporary flaws that have no bearing on the plot
and while luke is better than rey as a character, that doesn't make luke not shit you fucking cunt
>>63950059
They can salvage this by making her cocky in the second film but failing to master her powers setting her up for a fall, leaving her open to join the dark side in the third.
>>63950076
You're stupid.
>>63950059
20 paragraphs trying to rationalize why some sand scavanger was a force master 2 minutes after learning about the force
just accept shes a mary sue and move on with your life
>>63948980
>whiny manlet constantly in need of rescue
>takes 3 movies to get even a modicum of power
>Mary Sue
Luke had the best development, stop comparing him to such a flat character.
>>63950059
just like your superhero comics huh
>>63949239
If Rey sunk her ship into the swamps on Dagobah I bet she would've immediately pulled it out with the force then asked Yoda why the fuck he was taking so long.
She literally has no flaws as a character.
>>63950165
But Luke is great.
>>63950059
>All this spergy explaining is so fucking exhausting and boring. You need to go to a temple and have Jedi explain shit to you for years to know how to do a mind trick? You need to put on one of those stupid youngling hats and listen to Yoda drone on and on?
>Yoda spent 800 years training the Jedi just for shits and giggles
Is Rey worse than Tauriel?
>>63950603
Yes. Tauriel needed to be rescued in the last movie.
>>63950603
>Tauriel
>Furiosa
>Rey
My god, we are truly living in the era of the shoehorned female power character
fuck the current year
Luke didn't go hand to hand with Darth Vader in the very first episode with no training, he fought the big bad in second episode with much training and still got his ass whooped
Luke didn't even know how to use his jedi abilities like Rey did
>>63950248
She looks at Yoda and smirks..."Lift can you even?"
>>63950683
>>63949289
I completely agree with Senor del Toro
>b-b-b-but why does the hero win in the end!?!?!
>>63948980
I'm waiting for someone to make a montage of all the times Luke got his ass kicked or bailed out by someone else.
>>63950915
In ANH he got saved by Han, that's it.
>>63951012
nope
>>63948980
>gets clobbered by a sandnigger and has to be rescued by Ben
>Almost gets murdered in a bar and has to be rescued by Ben again
>Gets violated by a tentacle monster and then rescued by C-3PO, literally the character with the lowest combat level of anyone
>Almost gets his x-wing blown the fuck up twice but saved by wedge and then Han
>Gets kidnapped by a Wampa, taken to his rape dungeon, and then rescued by Han
>Fails in the force cave
>Gets bitch-slapped by daddy and loses his hand
>His "masterful plan" to rescue Han goes completely to shit. Has to be rescued by R2 and a blind Han Solo
>Gets toasted by the emperor and has to be saved by Daddy
He is literally the antithesis of a Gary Stu
>>63950059
She has power but not wisdom. Gaining power easily can lead to corruption. "There has been an awakening...the dark side and the light."
Rey may have Dark Side flowing through her...making the path easy.
Finn has light side...making his growth as a force user slower.
>>63951012
Never ever post again please.
>>63948980
> Reyfags in full damage control
>>63951012
I'm serious though, never ever post again.
>>63948980
>loses virtually every single fight he's in throughout all three films
>in his big fight at the end of the second film gets his hand cut off and dropped into a pit
>when he is FINALLY going to win a fight at the end of the last film he has to be saved by his dad
>mary sue
>>63949638
anakin gets wrecked by a 300 year old christopher lee then wrecked again by a good friend
>>63951054
>>63951088
Get fucked autist
>>63950683
Max kicked Furiosa's ass
(I'm still pissed she the poster makes her look as the MC)
>>63951012
Please, just never fill out another captcha on this site or any site in general really.
Does Rey need to change in order to achieve her ultimate goal in TFA?
>>63951012
Just become a lurker, never interact again.
>>63951054
>>63951088
>>63951137
>>63951170
The force is strong with this anon.
But seriously. >>63951012 Never post again.
>>63948980
>Gets wrecked by Sand people, Obi Wan saves him
>About to get into a bar fight, Obi Wan saves him
>Han mocks him
>Tries the light saber vs a droid and gets tazed
>goes to save Leia
>Leia mocks him
>the rescue mission is a disaster and his mentor dies
>attacks the death star
>only succeeds because of Obi Wans guidance and because Han saves him
ITT: SJWs trying their hardest to demean the previous male lead in the face of their strong independent woman being called out on being a mary sue.
>>63951275
>gets kuked by his own sister
>>63949202
>blowing up a death star
to be fair he have mystic help form phantom obi wan
>>63948980
This thread went terrible for you OP
>>63949289
del toro cant make a good story for his life
whateher makes him mad is a good thing
hes a great director but a horrible screenwriter
>>63948980
>demeaning and throwing a good character under the bus in order to make your favorite seem less shitty
Reyfags confirmed for cancer.
Luke gets his ass kicked for the entire movie until the end.
![return-of-the-jedi-1058[1].png_w=590.png](https://i.imgur.com/oV8Hg0n.png "return-of-the-jedi-1058[1].png_w=590.png")
>>63952324
but that's when he gets his ass kicked the hardest
>Rey Internet Defense Force
Your waifu is shit.
>>63948980
Naw he actually had a progression toward becoming a great jedi. He was pretty weak in the first 2 movies and wasn't kicking everyone's ass.
>>63949133
Tell that to all the veteran rebel fighter pilots who were getting BTFO while Luke took out the death star on his first time flying an X-wing.
>>63949202
He had help from Obi Wan,
He was hunted by Vader and almost is kill
He loses on his first experience with a lightsaber
He's arrogant and often paids through the nose for thinking he can do anything.
Its the battle tested Luke in Jedi that saves everyone and is Rey tier but only after going through a revolution as a character
In other words youre a literal faggot
>>63948980
>can't deny that Rey is a bona fide May Sue
>change subject by claiming Luke is a Gary Stu
Literally no one ever claimed Luke was a Gary Stu until this movie came out.
>>63953313
He also gets wrecked by indigenious species in all three movies if you count allowing himself to be caught by ewoks.
>>63950594
This. If it really is just getting in tune with the Force and that's why Rey can all of a sudden do all sorts of things with the Force, then why in the hell is she meeting up with Luke in the end. At this point there is no reason for her to train with anyone since it is not needed.
>>63953414
It's tumblrwhales and Reyfags doing damage control.
It's funny because when the movie first came out, they were bragging about how much stronger and more competent their Strong Female Character was compared to Luke. Now that people are accusing Rey of being a Mary Sue, these same people are going the other direction and claiming Luke was always super strong and powerful instantly.
>>63953497
What's the point of finding Luke anyways? That's a flaw of the OT is that the jedi don't really do anything special. Ben used the mind trick to get the droids from being searched, but could've been done easily by not driving into a checkpoint. Ben also took down the shields, but VII showed that a janitor can accomplish the same mission. Luke took out the deathstar, but since then non force sensitives have taken out bigger and badder versions. Seriously the only time the force is showed to be badass is from the dark side because they can use their power to persuade the galaxy to give you power, and sadly that's about the only time where vader's line about the ability to destroy a planet being insignificant to the power of the force ever makes since.
>>63953802
>Ben also took down the shields
Tractor beam
>>63953802
>That's a flaw of the OT is that the jedi don't really do anything special
It's not a flaw. It's just that jedi originally weren't overpowered superhero ninjas.
>>63953206
>ignores several posts ITT that point out Luke was about to get his shit kicked in before Han came and saved his ass
>>63953954
then why does vader say his line? Something else that pisses me off is that they never use the force in space combat apart from maybe super aim. Vader can force choke from video conference, so why not force choke pilots or force yank off parts, or stop ships from flying away
>>63954115
>then why does vader say his line?
Because he's a zealot.
>>63954115
>>63954191
Not to mention he says it partially for YOU the viewer to stop and consider just what the hell the Force is capable of if it supposedly dwarfs planetary destruction. It was never meant to be much more than a moment for your curiosity to be piqued by, and clearly that goal was achieved.
>>63949510
The fact that she gets captured in the first place is due to failure on her part.
He had his arm cutoff and spents 1 entire movie struggling to be a jedi
>mary sue.
>>63949473
Yeah and Chewie fired a bolt at Ren, plus he was also injured from Finn by the time Rey went to fight
What's your point cunt
If Rey was the main character in ANH -
>Easily beats the Tusken raiders, impressing Obi-Wan so much he offers to make her his apprentice
>Runs home just in time save her aunt and uncle. They realize that they've been wrong all along and let her go with Obi Wan.
>Beats up everyone in the cantina, shoots Greedo first. Han offers to take her for free. On the way to the ship she kills a bunch of Stormtroopers. Han is seriously impressed.
>Obi Wan starts training her with the lightsaber, but she's instantly amazing because she's a strong female character who don't need to training.
And so on and so on. By the end she'll of course defeat Darth Vader.
>>63954601
Is Luke the real damsel in distress of Star Wars?
>>63948980
He was whiny and was always asking questions until the very end where Obi-wan helped him.
>>63955311
Yes. Don't you know? You are a damsel in distress if you don't constantly kick ass.
>>63948980
Luke was a whiny little faggot at the beginning.
>>63955500
Empire is when he starts getting his shit together, he still complains but he has more valid reasons to.
>>63949045
>some little scrawny kid who doesn't have anything resemling completed training and goes mental every few minutes=sith lord
Luke felt the force guide him. He didn't manipulate the force until literally years after first discovering it, not minutes.
>>63949038
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRYYYYYYYYYYY
>>63951547
To be fair she kisses him on the cheek which is more than she gave Han in the first movie
Why is /co/ the only place where you can talk about Rey without the pissbabies crying about it
>>63953431
Nigger Ewoks are the strongest beings in the universe
I'd like to see a wookie or a gungan destroy a AT-ST using sticks and stones
>>63956069
>Nigger Ewoks are the strongest beings in the universe
Are Chink Ewoks the smartest?
>>63948980
He can't force lift a fucking x wing below a fucking swap.
>>63948980
All the Skywalkers are fucking Mary Sues.
>Anakin 'I'm the chosen one, the strongest with the Force ever, who fell in with a princess and then took over the entire Galaxy' Skywalker
>Luke 'I'm a boy who managed to bring peace to the entire galaxy without ever being trained in the force properly and am literally the last Jedi in existence' Skywalker
>Rey 'Epic force powers without ever being trained ever' Skywalker
Then the black sheep:
>Kylo 'I can stop bullets with my mind and practically rule the entire Death Star 2 despite the fact that I am fucking useless and throw baby tantrums every five minutes and someone still has to attend to me' Skywalker
>>63955767
>deflects blasters without his sight
>uses the Force to blow up the death star
>years
yeah sure
>>63956099
If I remember the Ewok cartoons I watched as a child correctly they fucking hated other types of Ewoks and had wars with them
>>63956135
Are you joking? The average Jedi would fail to lift that X-Wing even after 20 years of training. You need to be Dooku+ level to do something like that. The fact Luke even moved it is amazing.
>>63956161
That was Obi Wan not Luke
He warned Vader he would become more powerful than he could imagine and he was right
>>63956140
I'm pretty sure this was written by a grill
Its a good thing Poe never meets Rey properly.
If Rey had a chance to fly an X-Wing, she would've immediately taken Poe's position as the best pilot in the Resistance.
>>63956210
wot
Obi-Wan just guided him. If he could do anything as a ghost he would have soloed the Empire himself instead of relying on Luke.
>>63956244
Obi Wan is one with the force and Luke used the force
>>63948980
>mfw 4chan users can't even use basic internet lingo properly
Firstly it's gary stu
secondly, only fan characters can be Mary Sue's/ Gary stu
>>63956305
Rey is a fan character
>>63956140
>All the Skywalkers are fucking Mary Sues.
No read the thread.
You'll get blown the fuck out.
>>63948980
How many hundred times do you want to get blown the fuck out over this? Glutton for punishment.
>>63948980
A marry sue is a character that gets inserted into existing lore, is more perfect than any of the previous characters of the lore and all the old characters immediately like them.
How is rey not a marry sue?
>>63949045
>sith lord
Did you even watch the movie? Fuck.
>>63949279
Luke never flies an x-wing before he blows up the deathstar
>>63950683
Tauriel is the only shoehorned character
>>63956328
>N-no Star Wars used to be good
>muh rose tinted glasses
SWfags are truly delusional. The franchise was always shit.
>>63956396
yeah but he bullseyed womp rats in his t16 back home with his boy Wedge
>>63950059
>Isn't it just more fun that way?
No, it isn't, that's the whole point. Force was a mysterious power that Luke only tapped into for a few seconds in the first movie, that had to be mastered through multiple trials and failures, that required both practice and mental discipline. That's what made it cool, if anyone can just tap into it by "believing", it's not anywhere near as impressive.
>She's obviously a Skywalker. She's soaked in force power.
That's basically midichlorians explanation without using the word midichlorians. There is a reason people hated prequels you know.
>>63956454
Read and refute the points in the thread first.
>>63956473
And Rey is also a pilot. The criticism I was addressing was that she shouldn't be able to fly the falcon well because it's her first time in it.. In Star Wars a good pilot pilots every ship well. Luke blows up the deathstar in his first x-win mission. Rey just survived two whole TIE fighters.
That's the only thing people keep fucking up. Rey does way easier things outside the mind trick (which fails a few times anyway). She doesn't blow up a deathstar and Kylo Ren is no Darth fucking Vader.
>>63955450
Needing to be saved that many times though, he's more of a DiD than Leia
>>63949279
i thought she did fly the MF before?
>>63951719
We don't know what kind of "help" she got, in that moment of silence near the cliff with Kylo.
Kylo still being Ben Solo waiting for Snoke calling, so is when Ben is trained that change his aliad for Kylo Ren
>Luke had experience piloting and shooting at small targets
>His only impressive accomplishment in New Hope was Piloting and Shooting a small target
Not a Mary Sue
>>63956454
You're full of shit nigra
>>63948980
From their first respective movies
>Luke
Got rekt by the tusken raiders, needed Obi Wan to save him
Nearly got killed by the men in the cantina, need Obi Wan to save him
Needed Leia and Han to cover his ass constantly during the rescue mission, which ended up being a clusterfuck
Screwed up deflecting blaster bolts while Obi Wan was training him, never actually does that until 2 movies later
Rarely uses his lightsaber at all
Initially annoyed Han and Leia with his naivete and innocence
Needed R2 to save him from being crushed by the trash compactor
Needs Obi Wan to protect him from Vader
Needs Han to save him during the trench run from Vader
Pilots competently, doesn't do anything the other rebel pilots can't do (except aim the torpedo)
Uses the force once
>Rey
Beats up four guys by herself
Skilled marksman
Skilled mechanic
Knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han and Chewie, who piloted and repaired it for years
Can pilot the Millennium Falcon by herself competently enough to outmaneuver two TIE fighters, even though it requires two pilots
Gets kidnapped once, saves herself
Is better at using the Force than Kylo, who trained under Luke for years
Is instantly knowledgeable about probing minds, telekinesis, and using Jedi mindtricks
Instantly skilled at using a lightsaber
Has super saiyan jedi mode, which no other jedi has ever used in the movies
May have possibly learned all of this at the ripe young age of 4, depending on her backstory
Instantly liked by everyone
Instantly trusted by the Resistance to go on a mission to find Luke, even though they barely knew her
>>63958344
>Nearly got killed by the men in the cantina, need Obi Wan to save him
Would Luke have gotten literally raped if he was alone?
>>63948980
>Tumblr lashing out because their radfem selfinsert is getting BTFO all over the internet.
>>63948980
>>63948980
*Marty Stu
>>63949872
What if Jabba had left R2 at the palace?
That's a really stupid plan
>>63959515
No, it's Gary Stu.
>>63949430
People use the scene of Luke blocking a few shots while his eyes are covered on the MF as an equivalent to everything Rey does. SW fans make blind statements and pass them off as truth.
>>63948980
Literally tumblr b8
Definitely don't go die in horrible agony :^)
>>63955715
>has been training for years
>person who just learned the force is real yesterday matches him easily
kill yourself
>>63956586
>rides speederbike across wide open desert expanse with no obstacles and no one shooting at her
>pilot
ebic sempai
Remember when Luke became a superstar jedi after picking up a lightsaber once?
He totally didn't get his ass kicked every time he got in a fight (including against a wild animal), and didn't get his ass kicked by Vader constantly, only being able to overpower him through sheer rage for 20 seconds.
The entire plot of New Hope is based on contrivances.
What a coincidence that the droid they were just about to buy instead of R2 happened to blow up.
Fucking Lucas you hack.
>>63962637
>40+ years of experience
>greatest Jedi killer in history
>one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever
>trained by Obi-Wan and Sheev himself
>Force juggernaut who fucks up everything with his TK
>physical powerhouse
>most feared man in the galaxy
>gets wrecked by a kid with a few years of mostly self-traning
Now tell me Luke isn't a Mary Sue.
>>63962795
What are you smoking? Luke cut that thing's arm off and held his own against the greatest Jedi hunter in the galaxy despite having almost no training. That's just in ESB. In RotJ he knows how to mind trick and choke niggas right from the start.
>>63962890
Its not like Luke outskilled him or anything. He just got so pissed of that he began wailing on Vader until he could no longer defend himself properly. Not to mention Vader is mostly machine now, his joints and shit have got to be fucked to hell, so he can't do any of that bullshit he pulled in the prequels anymore.
>>63962940
>What are you smoking? Luke cut that thing's arm off
After getting his ass kicked and being strung up in a cave like a slab of meat in a grocery store. He was also barely able to use the force to get his lightsaber.
>>63962840
It was the will of The Force.
>>63962840
There's a difference between whimsical serendipity and lazy writing.
>>63962963
He definitely ouskilled him. Compare the ESB duel to the one in RotJ. Vader had Luke on the the backfoot the entire time on Bespin, in RotJ Luke and Vader look equal until Luke tapped into the Dark side and overpowered Vader.
I think people just don't understand how much of a beast Darth Vader was. What he lost in speed he makes up with his raw physical strength, skill, and experience. This is what happens when an average Jedi goes up against him.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXoJeLDyVBY
>>63948980
hes an impatient ignorant idiot.
pretty big drawback
>>63963058
>this plothole is different because I say so!
It's because you were less cynical and jaded when you saw ANH for the first time. Now you're grown up and browse 4chan "whimsical serendipity" turns into "lazy writing" when it's really "something that doesn't matter it's the plot"
>>63963006
That monster got the better of him because of a sneak attack.
>>63960301
Different poster here but no, it's Marty Stu. Gary Stu gained traction in the late nineties after idiots decided they preferred the visual rhyme to the original variation.
The first male to be called a Marty Stu was a decade earlier - Wesley Crusher in TNG.
It's a moot discussion in the case of Rey anyway, because none of the writers of the film are women or (as far as we know) fantasise about being women. It's not just about being a surrogate for the author, but it's also not just about being overpowered wish fulfilment - it needs to be both. Like, Rey is just a badly written character. She's not an author insert. Tyrion Lannister is also not a Marty Stu - while he's an obvious author insert for George R. R. Martin, he's absolutely not fucking wish-fulfilment.
An actual Mary Sue would be the main chick in the Twilight movies - based on the author and fulfilling that author's fantasies.
An actual Marty Stu is Luke Skywalker (Luke S. = Lucas) George Lucas would make Hamill say his lines a very certain way and even stand the same way Lucas did because he was his wish-fulfilment - the young guy who gets plucked from a mediocre life and saves the galaxy.
Blowing up a Death Star is not the same level as defeating a Sith, which took Luke 2 movies to do. I wish idiots would stop saying that it is.
>>63962890
In Empire, Vader was toying with Luke and not trying to kill him. His goal all along was to try and turn him towards the dark side. Even in Jedi during their final fight, he was still trying to turn him as was Sheev. In a span of like 15 seconds Luke gave into his rage and overpowered Vader. Mind you Vader probably wasn't going as hard as he could, because he still wasn't trying to kill Luke.
>>63948980
>Nearly dies against a bunch of sand people
>Bailed out by Obi Wan
>Nearly dies at the cantina
>Bailed out by Obi Wan
>Nearly dies at the Death Star
>Bailed out by C3P0
>Nearly dies attacking the Death Star
>Bailedout by Han Solo
>Nearly dies in Hoth
>Saved by Han Solo again
>Meets Yoda
>Fails Jedi training
>Goes after Vader
>Gets his ass kicked and loses a hand
>Tries to rescue Han
>Gets shot
>Finally beats Vader
>Gets his shit pushed in by Palpatine
>Vader bails him out.
>>63963308
You're very wrong here, friend. Yes, Vader and the Emperor were trying to turn Luke, but he had to prove he was worthy. If Luke wasn't strong enough to survive than he wouldn't have been worth their time, that's the philosophy of the Sith.
>>63963229
Rey didn't defeat a Sith.
>>63963365
And Rey was taken out by Kylo twice and needed to be rescued by Finn.
>>63963168
No, a Mary Sue is a new character suddenly placed into an established canon/setting who ends up profoundly affecting characters and plot for lazy, non-sensiscal reasons due to wish fulfillment. It's a term coined by fanfiction written by fangirls. Luke was not randomly placed into SW lore, he was the main character from the get go.
See also: >>63956386
>>63963454
He was the hero of the OT, Rey is the hero of the new trilogy.
>>63963425
>completely disregarding how Vader was his father and still attached to him (which is why he didnt kill Luke in ESB)
>also disregarding Vader's and the Emperor's baits during the fight
No, they were trying as hard as they could to fuck him up emotionally
>>63963538
A new trilogy written by an entirely new person and basically copy pasted from the original movie. JJ Abrams is the fangirl in this case inserting his new characters into Lucas' pre-established work and lore.
checkm8 atheists
>>63963538
Aka, a wish fulfilment character suddenly thrust upon an old cast affecting everyone and stealing the spotlight.
AKA a Mary Sue.
>>63949872
I think the plan was to use force suggestion on Pizza the Hut, or failing that get the light saber from R2D2. And not, you know, fall into a pit, fight a giant monster and then narrowly avoid falling into another pit.
>>63963538
Dindu is also a main character of the new trilogy, and also not a Mary Sue
Checkmate
>>63963596
Are serious? Vader didn't kill him in ESB because he wanted to convert him. Also, because Sheev comanded Vader to bring him alive.
Those bants were meant to enrage him, which they did. That doesn't mean Vader wasn't fighting back.
>>63963648
Did you expect a 60+ year Luke to be the star again? What's wrong with you?
>>63963698
But he's not the hero.
>>63963787
Who is going to get character development in the next 2 movies then? Because it sure as hell cant be Rey, she's already perfect. Watch as next movie she kicks Luke's ass, and in ep 9 she kills Snoke easily.
Everything was so much better back then.
>>63963870
Don't be stupid. She has her whole mysterious origin to work with. I bet money she's going have plenty of angst after she learns Luke dumped her on Jakku and mind wiped her.
>>63950059
>so apologetic it hurts
reddit is sure in full force today.
>>63963764
>Vader didn't kill him in ESB because he wanted to convert him.
Why are you repeating me?
>That doesn't mean Vader wasn't fighting back.
He wasnt going for the kill, he was trying to throw Luke's concentration off, and he did, some dark side affected Luke, making he go bananas on Vader, who got caught off guard, and almost killed (if Luke hadnt stopped his own rage)
The last bait before Luke going apeshit was bringing Leia into business when Vader read his mind
>>63963990
>Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark side
>got caught off-guard when Luke tapped into the dark side
Are you an idiot? That was Vader's whole plan, he just got out fucking skilled.
>>63950059
We never see her hearing anything on jedis besides Solo telling her they're real, this is poor writing
The only way they could fix this is if she was trained as a jedi when she was a kid and THEN got her memory wiped, then her pulling out all that bullshit would make sense (but TFA Rey as a standalone would still make no sense)
>>63955849
GARY?
>>63964092
>The only way they could fix this is if she was trained as a jedi when she was a kid and THEN got her memory wiped,
That's pretty clearly what they're going for. The visions she had pretty much confirmed it.
>but TFA Rey as a standalone would still make no sense
They did plan it as a trilogy.
REY SUEWALKER
OP DYKE
POWER DYKE
THE DYKE SIDE OF THE FORCE
DYKE JEDI
RAY RAY
OH COME ON, IT'S REY
DARTH SUEGUS
>>63964117
>agility is already maxed out
>melee combat is already maxed out
>flight skills were kinda rusty
>repairs skills are already maxed out
>unlocked force grab, force push and mind trick
>speaks everything
>the only thing she didnt knew was how to remove a safety on a blaster
>like she never came by one of those on not tatooine
>>63964058
>I'll just make him go crazy
>oh shit oh fuck he wasnt supposed to be this strong
Whats so hard to understand about that?
>outskilled
Do you know what skill means? Luke was flailing like a madman, he got overpowered
>>63964161
Vader knew full well how strong Luke was, that's why he wanted him on his side against the Emperor in the first place.
>Do you know what skill means? Luke was flailing like a madman, he got overpowered
That's just because the choreography was spotty at best. Luke beat Vader, that's pretty much it, and he did it with barely any training.
>>63963946
>Teh Rei and Teh Rey are both the worst girls in their respective series
Pottery.
>>63948980
Why don't you fucks ever look up what a Mary Sue is? Rey is a Mary Sue, Luke isn't. Get over it.
>>63962667
She says she's a pilot and can pilot the quadjumper.
>>63963451
Rey got bailed out twice but every other time she was able to perfectly handle herself. In A New Hope Luke had to constantly be saved. Besides his pilot skills, he was completely useless.
>>63962940
>held his own against the greatest Jedi hunter in the galaxy despite having almost no training.
Darth Vader was toying with Luke, you retard. If Vader had wanted to kill him the duel would've been over within a minute.
JJ said that Rey is by far the strongest lightsaber duelist and force user of all time, nearly 10 times stronger than Anakin at his peak
I thought The Force Awakens was great and Rey was a highly likable character. That doesn't change the fact that she's a flaming Mary Sue though. Why can't you idiots just accept it and move on?
>>63949212
Don't forget the Han is the one that actually saves him from getting his ass blasted by Vader in the trench run too.
The problem with Rey is that she comes off like someone who watched the Original Trilogy and that's how she understands the universe. Her sudden use of force powers seems more like she recalled seeing it in the ANH or ESB than anything else. Not to mention her familiarity with the Falcon.
It's like she's fucking Mike TV who was transported into the Star Wars Galaxy and has grown up in it. So she's isolated but still has her memories of the movies long ago.
You guys have no idea where the term "Mary Sue" comes from, do you? You just read about it on TVTropes and think any character who does things well is a Mary Sue
Rey is not even nearly a Mary Sue. She's a lazily written character, but not a Mary Sue
>>63956140
>all the skywalkers are mary sues
Anakin has a fatal flaw: wanting to keep loved ones from death
Luke has a fatal flaw: too much emotion wrapped up in family
Rey: a blank slate that literally excels at anything she does no matter what it is.
gurlpower woo
you go guuuurrrl
Reminder
>>63956140
Luke has never been a Mary Sue, read the fucking thread. Anakin was a Mary Sue in The Phantom Menace but not in the other prequels. Rey is a Mary Sue.
>>63948980
No. Luke had clear, concrete character motivation and didn't beat Darth Vader one-on-one without any training.
>>63965985
>>63956140
>without ever being trained in the force properly
he gets trained by yoda you fag
>>63949045
I wasnt that happy with her as well.
I do agree that she was almost never in peril and that knew a bit too much stuff, although everything is explained.
My biggest gripe was the force thing, and my friend made me notice that when Kylo read his mind he said something about an island and ocean, and since she lived her whole life on sandniggerland, he was probably referring to where she was trained, if not that same island we see Luke on.
also
>kylo ren
>sith lord
>>63949186
yep, that was the last movie of the trilogy, and?
all these disney dicksuckers ITT. he underwent something called character progression, we saw him at his meager beginning and we saw him progress. mary sue went from perfect to perfect = no progression
>>63949045
Kylo Ren is more of a shit lord than sith lord.
Blowing up Death Star > beating up a shit lord.
>>63949289
Do these people not get what the problem with being a Mary Sue is?
Rey is BORING. Can anyone here describe her personality?
>>63950059
How the hell does she even know what the fuck the Jedi mind trick is? Luke didn't even realize what was happening the first time Ben did it.
>>63967564
She's determined, self-confident, and feels she doesn't belong, which is why she constantly wants to go back to her home of Jakku until her determination and love of others wins through and she decides she wants to help
There, done
>>63967644
Jabba knew exactly what a Jedi mind trick was, as did the Imperial officers on the original Death Star
>>63967738
What a great, unique character
hope she's the mainstay of the next 2 movies so that this meme cash-in can crash and burn
>>63967770
Jabba knows because he's a major crime boss and undoubtedly would know about Jedi.
The imperial officers have Darth Vader right there.
Rey did not even know about the force and was stuck on a trash heap planet
>>63967770
Its stupid. If she naturally has heaps of power and knew what the force was she surely would have at some point in her life discovered her ability to use it.
>>63967842
Okay. You don't like her character. Literally nobody gives a shit what you like or don't like and she's going to be the star of the next two movies
Deal with it, shitlord
>>63967888
I literally just gave you the answer. Just because you don't like it means nothing. If Jabba heard about it, obviously she did, too
>>63965454
>refers to the mf as garbage
>runs for another ship instead
>she must know its value
>>63967933
No you didn't. You just gave examples of other people who knew about them as if you made a point. Why would Jabba, a crime boss with connections all over the Galaxy, knowing about it mean Rey knew? Luke sure didn't know about it until He saw Obi wan do it.
>>63965454
>Her sudden use of force powers seems more like she recalled seeing it in the ANH or ESB than anything else.
She'd probably heard stories of the Jedi. Then again...the flashback suggests she was there with Luke and the Jedi when shit went down. She probably did know about the Force already.
>>63965954
Anakin and Luke were both attached to people. And Rey seems the same way. She was eager to return to Jakku, believing her family would return for her. She also seemed afraid to accept everything to do with the Force at first.Was wary of the lightsaber and its visions of her past and future.
And going back to attachment -she started to see Han as a father figure, and didn't want Finn to go because probably for the first time in her memory, she actually had a friend. She felt like she was being abandoned all over again, yeah?
So uhhh... I'd say you're wrong.
Fucking hate the whole "stronk womyn" cliche, don't get me wrong. A well-written character is weak and afraid. Finn, for instance.
But she still had the same flaw the others had.
>>63951054
>>63951088
>>63951137
>>63951170
>>63951266
beautiful
>>63964222
Tapping into the dark side. Before that Vader wasnt having any issues.
>>63948980
>whiny
>impatient
>flawed
>an everyman
>Sandpeople knock him out and almost steal his speeder
>not an expert on shooting blasters
>a competent pilot
>almost gets crushed by the trash compactor
>needs Leia's help before they grapple
>needs Han Solo and Chewbacca's help in the final battle
>a wanna fucks his face up and kills his Taun Taun
>almost dies from freezing before Han save him
>gets shot down by an AT-AT
>his co-pilot Dack gets killed because of Luke's piloting too close to the AT-AT
>his X-Wing gets flooded in the swamp
>can't recognize Yoda as a Jedi Master
>insults Yoda and bickers with him
>doesn't listen to his instructions
>can't lift the X-Wing out of the swamp
>abandons his training to help his friends when his actions won't even save them
>gets BTFO by Darth Vader, who kicks his ass
>gets his hand chopped off
>loses the lightsaber
>needs Lando, Leia, and Chewbacca's help
>falls for Jabba's trap door
>captured by Jabba
>throws a rock instead of using the force
>Boba Fett ties him up
>a goon shoots and fucks up his hand
>couldn't sense that Vader was his dad
>gets BTFO on the speeder bike by a Scout
>captured by Ewoks in a fucking net
>electrocuted by Sheev, needs his dad's help
Luke wasn't a Mary or a Gary. He was an everyman, a simple farmboy turned Rebel Commander turned Jedi Knight. He wasn't a chosen one, he wasn't special. He was naive and grew as a character. His journey is a relatable one from his humble beginnings.
Rey on the other hand is the very definition of a Mary Sue. She's a Neo, Harry Potter reject.
>never defeated
>can understand droid speak
>don't hold mah hand
>I don't need ya blaster
>special force user
>visions from touching a lightsaber
>great mechanic
>great pilot
>great at hand to hand combat
>great lightsaber combat
>shoots a blaster perfectly and accurately first time
>can mind trick enemies without even knowing the ability was possible
>can block her thoughts from a trained Force user unlike Poe
What's with SJWs pathetic attempt to deflect Rey's Mary Sue status by trying to imply Luke was a Gary Sue? I'm reading comments all over about how implying Rey is a Mary Sue means you hate women.
>people constantly comparing Rey to Luke
>tfw Rey is Ms. Male Character
>>63967405
Never flown a starship before. Lets fly through this wrecked star destroyer and pull off all the bullshit from Red Tails > Bullseye womprats in my T-16 back home.
