>people are calling Rey a "mary sue"
I get how Rey is really good with the force kind of out of no where but i have a question to all of you who are really upset about this new buzzword.
If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
I don't like her because she's black
Finn tongued my anus is 2011
>I get how Rey is really good with the force kind of out of no where
Do you? Because I don't.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
Then she's just boring and won't develop.
yeah because literally nobody has ever been that good off the bat at everything to the point it's ridiculous
I don't mind. After the boring midichlorian bullshit of the prequels, someone who's good at the force simply because they believe defeating some faggot who thinks he's hot shit because he's related to Vader is exactly what the franchise needed
it's like faggots are so used to "subversive" and "deconstructive" media they can't just enjoy the hero beating the villain anymore
We are lead to believe has spent the better part of over half of her life as a scavenger on a "Junk Planet" she is capable of all of the following
Rappelling and Climbing
Desert Survival
Melee Combat
Multilingual
Advanced Piloting (Of various ships, old and new)
Advanced Engineering & Repairs (More so than even Han Solo)
Lightsaber Combat (Bests someone trained from childhood by two Jedi/Sith Masters, within seconds of acquiring the weapon)
Blasters (Upon first ever use, takes out many stormtroopers, who are trained from birth)
Evasion (From the First Order in their base without disguise, unlike Luke/Han in the Original Trilogy)
Force Ability: Mind Control
Force Ability: Mind Reading
Force Ability: Telekinesis
Resistance to the Dark Side (Luke had to be trained by Yoda to do this, what does Rey use to hold onto the light side? She's inherently good?)
You may say she has some "faults" here are some, decide for yourself whether these affect her outcome in any scenes
Lonely - Seems to be socially competent upon meeting people
Unknown parents - This is never used to evoke a good/bad emotional reaction from her
Raised herself(?) on a dessert/junk planet - There appears to be no disadvantages to this, she appears highly educated, smart, funny, talented and strong
Inexperienced pilot - She struggles for a maximum of 10-20 seconds during a takeoff, which results in no serious damage or danger
Inexperienced force user - Overcome by Kylo twice, however proceeds to turn it around and best him both times (Escapes his captivity, almost kills him) and is never is visible danger
Malnourished - Contemplates trading BB8 for rations of green jelly to survive, still seems extraordinarily agile, fit, and muscular, overpowering trained killers/fighters many times
The point that she is a starving, abandoned desert child never seems to put her at a disadvantage.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
Yes, because they should have explained it in this movie. Also, it's a problem to trivialize the main villain so much, even if there's a good explanation.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
They'll be as okay with it as fans are when Finn reveals he's just a double agent.
Outside of fan fiction communities, "Mary Sue" is just a trope. And calling something a trope isn't a criticism, just recognition of a story device.
>>63942280
>Rappelling and Climbing
>Desert Survival
>Melee Combat
>Multilingual
>Advanced Engineering & Repairs (More so than even Han Solo)
>Evasion (From the First Order in their base without disguise, unlike Luke/Han in the Original Trilogy)
These skills make sense given her background and presumed violent conflicts with thugs and wildlife.
Her other skills make no fucking sense at all. She drives a space-motorcycle, that is not the same as a fucking ship. Why not just make her really good at the things it makes sense for her to be good at and bad at other things? Why make her great at everything?
>>63942099
>this new buzzword.
OH ALL RIGHT LET'S HAVE SOME NEW ONES SHALL WE
REY SUEWALKER
OP DYKE
POWER DYKE
THE DYKE SIDE OF THE FORCE
DYKE JEDI
RAY RAY
OH COME ON, IT'S REY
DARTH SUEGUS
In the 24 hours after he meets Obi-Wan, Luke is blocking laser shots blind and one-shots the Death Star.
>>63942908
yeah, that was awesome.
teh ray
>If they explain how she's perfect then it'll make her a good character, right???
What did they mean by this?
>>63943204
Ray Ray is already fubar, focus on Finn and Poe. Only bring her back for episode 9.
youtu.be/aWRg5fddADw
Logical and evidenced-based points about her character do not matter, you're taking her strength away from all the little girls who went to see Star Wars to be empowered.
>>63942099
Surviving on a desert planet since childhood is a good way to make you resilient, not that the pasty millennials that plague this site would know this given they've never left their mommy's basement
>>63942908
He would have died on that attack run without Han. We were told going in he was a skilled pilot and a good shot from his ship. Other than that there was little to recommend him and he had no notable feats beyond piloting until the third movie.
Rey on the other hand was instantly good at absolutely everything and better at most things than people who spent their lives training to do them. Her instant fix of the Falcon in a way even Han hadn't considered is an absolutely dead givaway that she's a Sue. That's textbook Sue-ism.
Seriously. Just Google "Identifying a Mary Sue." It's scary how many boxes she checks off.
>>63943316
Is Max an expensive wore? Millionaire?
>>63942099
she's not "really good with it" she just kinda realizes it's there and does some shit.
She wasn't some hyper-badass or anything.
You guys need to call down about this bitch, for real
>>63943357
>Her instant fix of the Falcon in a way even Han hadn't considered is an absolutely dead givaway that she's a Sue.
That seemed to be more of a lucky accident than anything. Also, she's just a prodigy and naturally better for whatever reason, doesn't make her a Sue automatically
>>63942307
>it's a problem to trivialize the main villain so much
But he's a fucking baby. That's his character. You realize he got most of the character development in this movie, more than our three protagonists (who are all splinters of the original Luke character), because he's demonstrably incomplete? He's got more character than Vader had in ANH by a long way
>>63942099
I didn't have a problem with her being good with the force.
She's strong with her and she realized. It doesn't really require much more of an explanation.
She can fight, that was shown with the stick earlier and she's probably fought a lot growing up on Jakku.
She's mostly been on that planet scavenging from what I've gathered so she seemed a little too competent with a spaceship like the falcon though. Sure she can be an asset there since she's worked with tech, but I think it would be a little different.
Not that bad though.
>>63943427
>agility is already maxed out
>melee combat is already maxed out
>flight skills were kinda rusty
>repairs skills are already maxed out
>unlocked force grab, force push and mind trick
>speaks everything
>the only thing she didnt knew was how to remove a safety on a blaster
>like she never came by one of those on not tatooine
>>63943358
He's aJewish Hollywood child, so odds are he's probably doing alright.
>>63943316
>mfw I'm agreeing with this guy all of a sudden
what happened to me
>>63943589
I don't wanna sound all SJW or anything, but dis was a dude and not a bitch I don't think ya'll niggas would be so up in arms
Calm your tits nigga, she a bad bitch, end of story
>>63943794
If this was a dude we'd be back with Annie again.
>>63943794
You are wrong. We complain about male Sues too. Bad writing is bad writing.
>>63943794
No mate, I got really attached to her first when she was eating her slop watching spaceship taking off day dreaming.
Then the plot armor came on.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
Does make this movie less shit. A movie needs to be to some extent self-contained. You cannot just leave a key plot element unexplained unless you give some hints about it
>>63943875
this, i was thinking that she was kinda cute and a dreamer like luke. then lol girl power kicked in and it was the death of her character
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
yes because I want to enjoy a fucking Space Opera and not being trolled kindergarden style
>>63942099
>If they explained it
There is no explanation
>Great at fighting
>Great at running
>Great at quadjumpah
>Great at force
>Great at flying
>Great at rescuing herself
>Great at fixing things
>Great at lightsabering
>Is competent with a gun after having used one for 5 seconds
>Any Jedi-related hidden powers have somehow manifest themselves after she retained the info from being a toddler
It's not just that she's good at stuff though, there's the fact that she has no real flaws (or real personality) and that everyone likes her just because they have to like her. She's probably really important and part of some prophecy too.
Mary Sue was literally a term used for characters that were rammed into fan-fiction and saved the day whilst being perfect and all the established characters loved them instantly.
Which is what Rey is.
Did everyone instantly enjoy Luke's company? Han thought he was naive. Leia thought he was short. Yoda, channelling /cel/ thought he was too old.
What traits did Rey demonstrate to make people like her? Finn mumbles something about her looking at him like he's a human being and not a mindless drone to follow orders. Nobody else even suggests a reason.
>>63942099
no. if she is related to Sheev all will be forgiven
>>63943978
When was she in danger again? Who helped her do what?
>>63942099
why are they upset that rey is a mary sue? mary sues are part of the fucking genre.
>>63943978
would you pls stop holding my hand? I can run on my own
>>63942250
Not even Luke was this bad in the OT
>>63944096
stronk independent woman don't need no man
>>63942250
It's what makes the Twilight series so good.
>>63944046
Tom Bombadil was a Mary Sue and they left him out of the movies because IT'S A FUCKING STORY BREAKER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDKKB-JJvsU
>>63944034
The entire segment where she meets Finn was basically her telling Finn to check his privilege.
>Looks like she's in danger
>No she beats the shit out of everyone
And that set a precedent. She could've been competent but still flawed, instead she's perfect and has absolutely zero negative traits.
All well written characters have flaws. Even some badly written characters have flaws. Luke, Han and Leia all have flaws. Even fucking Obi Wan and Anakin had some flaws in the prequels. Obi Wan was too anal about Jedi rules in Episode 1, for example.
>>63944096
see he was hand raping her because she didnt give him consent. then when he was fallen down she put her hand out so he knew he had consent and the privilege to hold her hand. it was a metaphor for rape culture check your privilege shitlords
Can someone tell me why a Mary Sue is bad? Also from reading the wikipedia article a Mary Sue seems to have more to do with the author's wish-fulfillment. Does JJ want to be Rey?
My gold standard for Mary Sues is Keira Knightley's character in Pirates of the Caribbean. She starts off as this rich girl hanging out with a career pirate and a guy who is even better at swordfighting than the pirate is because he's lived his whole life in a forge making swords.
By the second movie, she's supposed to be as good or better with a blade than boyfriend guy, who is supposed to be better than Johnny Depp.
Call me when Rey starts pushing over walkers with the force and I'll join the mary sue train. Everybody in this movie, including people who are confirmed not out of training yet, are doing shit nobody ever did before.
>>63942129
/thread
>>63943986
Maybe Sheev has been waiting for Rey to "awaken" so that he can take over her body and then in the next episode there'll be a horrifying transformation where she blasts Snoke with unlimited power and her flesh melts and reveals Sheev beneath.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
It wouldn't fix it so, no.
See, it's not that she is a Mary Sue because she is over-powered or absurdly capable, she is a Mary Sue because the whole movie is an act to tell you just how fucking special she is. Considering that she will become a jedi in the next movie, logical step to this movie's build up, it's only going to get worse.
>>63944343
Will they give Rey an OC saber? Like a saber staff or something stupid.
>>63942099
Mary Sue are usually explained, too. They usually have magic or some shit
Anyway, she's not a Mary Sue because none of the other characters talk about her in glowing terms. Think Poochy
>>63944404
she'll probably make her own in the next movie because shes just that good
>>63944404
Of course. She'll have at least two different sabers + clothes, since they need to sell toys.
She walks around with that staff of hers, so my bet is that they'll create a "light staff" similar to it so she can fight in her own style. It'll probably be yellow or some shit.
>>63943508
I agree it make sense for him to lose. But guess what a villain also is? FORMIDABLE. I think that most people understand it make sense he lost, but it's just lame. It's lame. The story can lick my balls.
>>63943978
>Nobody else even suggests a reason.
>Fin helps wounded Chewy onto the ship and with some struggling, manages to bandage his wounds and get him settled down
>Han tells Rey he thinks Chewy likes her
Somebody is an asshole, I'm just not sure who
>>63944096
*~*~so stronk~*~*
it irritates me that abrams pretty much turned star wars from a revered space opera into a pew pew capeshit SJW propaganda device. no white males in the movie at all.
and yet, he doesnt have the balls to let the writer or director be a woman/black. this is something i love about idiots who shoehorn progressivism into everything - they are hypocritical as fuck. yeah, they'll make the whole cast black and female or whatever, but they won't step aside and give a chance for minorities to tell their stories. :^)
they just tell the story for them. typical privileged white males. pathetic.
>>63942449
To show her immense skill when she takes control of the dark side of the force
>>63944265
he wants to satisfy feminists and thinks that creating mary sues will satisfy that
they're boring characters, which is why they're so hated in FF circles
>>63944517
He'll win in Episode VIII, just like Vader did in V. If you thought The Force Awakens was too similar to A New Hope, wait until you see the next one and how similar it'll be to Empire Strikes Back.
>>63944517
it doesnt make sense that he loses. When luke saw obiwan get killed did he grab his lightsaber and charge into battle, and end up beating vader because he immersed himself in the force? no he got fucking mad and started shooting people before running when obi wans ghost told him to. if luke beats vader right there then all the mystique is gone and vader looks like just another generic bad guy and a pussy while lukes journey just took the fast pass line to Mary Sue world
so is she fucking that black guy or what
>>63944429
>Leia, who had just lost her husband, tells Chewbacca, who had just lost his best friend, to fuck off to console Rey
>none of the other characters talk about her in glowing terms.
Actually, Chewbacca is told to fuck off by pretty much everyone in this movie with almost no provocation. Fuck this.
>>63944646
I've never seen truer words. Jesus Christ, I can't even believe I'm in /tv/ right now. So much this.
>>63944543
Chewbacca got them mixed up, he thought Finn was Rey and Rey was Finn.
It's an allegory for how we all thought Finn was going to be shit and Rey would be fine. It was stylistically designed to be that way.
>>63942280
>Resistance to the Dark Side (Luke had to be trained by Yoda to do this, what does Rey use to hold onto the light side? She's inherently good?)
Actually it's heavily implied (and outright confirmed in the novelization) that she dipped into the dark side to win her fight against Kylo.
>>63944464
Almost a guarantee that Luke says a line along the lines of "You made the best lightsaber i have ever seen."
>>63944757
Novelization isn't canon, though. Only the movie is.
>>63943431
>Also, she's just a prodigy and naturally better for whatever reason,
>for whatever reason
That's exactly what a Mary Sue is
>>63944757
yeah I got that implication. She basically used the same shit he was doing to skim information out of her to get some info on him, like when Snape was training Harry Potter to resist mindrapes. All she needed was a small bit of embarrassing info to troll him with and he broke his concentration and left her alone to go sulk.
>>63944558
I'm not quite sure what you just did there but I love you
>>63942307
>b-but they should've explained it in this movie
why? do you not know what SERIES is? can you not comprehend what the purpose of a SERIES is?
>>63942099
It's pretty obvious
>Anakin wins a podrace against some of the best pilots in the galaxy at age nine after having his pod get sabotaged and also single-handedly wins the battle of Naboo
>his son Luke blows up the death star at age 19, despite being a mediocre pilot
>his daughter Rey etc. etc.
>>63944768
She will teach Luke in the ways of the force. You think Rey gets mansplained too? Hell Naw!
>>63944757
The novels always try and deal with the stupid shit they get handed. Look at the episode 3 novel, that guy deserves a medal for managing to make sense of the Dooku fight and actually make Anakin's fall somewhat logical.
Although he did remove the Sheev spin because he evidently thought it was fucking retarded, and instead replaced it with Sheev keeping his saber inside an ultra-dense statue and then activating it and having it fly out to decapitate one of Dindu's pals.
>>63944979
Luke was not a mediocre pilot, Biggs said he was a great pilot and he spent most of his free time practicing flying in his T-16.
Luke was not a Gary Stu at all, Anakin was but he had that whole chosen one shit behind him so at least they tried to find an excuse for it.
>>63944429
>Han Solo: I want you to be my second m8; you're amazing
>Finn: I lied and put Rebel lives on the line because I need to save Rey
>>63944646
To be fair, Kylo Ren is suppose to be an untrained pussy. Snoke hasn't completed his training.
>>63943357
>We were told going in he was a skilled pilot and a good shot from his ship.
So, a single line of dialogue about Luke shooting womp rats is sufficient to explain him delivering a payload of missiles and hitting nothing but net.
Would you have felt better if Rey mentioned that she beats up a sack of potatoes with a stick in her backyard? Christ.
>>63945098
Either way, it probably gets waved off by Luke next movie saying she has far more potential than even her grandfather
So what?
>>63944979
Anakin was the chosen one, he clearly was the most powerful Force sensitive being around the galaxy. Qui-Gon explained that he was the only human in Pod Racing because of his Force powers.
Despite all of that, he still didn't single handedly deal with all problems of the movie (Darth Maul, princess rescue).
If you go further into the story, to Episodes II and III, he gets captured in Geonosis, he loses his arm to Count Dooku, he loses to Obi-Wan in his last battle as Anakin, etc.
Anakin motherfuckin' Skywalker is less of a mary sue than Rey and he was the Chosen One of that universe. Let that sink in for a minute.
>>63944558
Literally everything niggers in America can write about is being opressed and drugs.
You have this endless source of knowledge and inspiration in the literature you can find on the internet, and what do they do? Cry about opression.
Latinos are worse btw. Like they are born to get indoctrinated like fucktards.
>>63944464
To be fair, Luke did that too.
>>63945292
so its boring
hurr durr i wonder who will win, there is no tension at all
yawn
>>63945292
That's right. Fuck good storytelling.
>>63944464
They make their own lightsaber as younglings with Doctor Who bot.
>>63945098
Anakin was in ep1 but he was only in half the movie
Rey is in the whole movie
>>63945308
they also mention that despite podracing for quite a while, Anakin had never actually finished a race
>>63944265
You read the wikipedia article and that's what you took from it? It literally says that the wish-fulfillment part came later.
>>63945371
AFTER TRAINING. Making a lightsaber is the culmination of your training as Jedi.
so is she luke's kid or what?
what was the muh family faggotry all about
i honestly thought she was hermoine (same personality, look and accent)
drove me nuts
>>63942382
How is it criticism of a story when talking about fan fiction and not criticism when talking about a book, movie, or show?
I don't care what you call it, but the reason people think Rey is too perfect is because they never tell us how she knows all this shit. If they gave a decent explanation or showed her doing some piloting/repairs pre-Falcon, I don't think it would bother people so much.
>>63945450
Fuck, I forgot that. It makes the comparison even worse for Rey. She was just badly written.
>>63945524
Apparently Tatooine is American Desert Planet while Jakku is British
>>63945468
Again: Luke was blocking laser shots while blindfolded hours after meeting Obi-Wan. He one-shotted the death star a day later. All of this is propped up by a single exchange with Biggs.
>>63945207
Why do people think this is a good excuse?
Everything about her screams villain. Her face, her voice, her acting. Notice she was climbing down when Finn spotted her, on her way to the dark side.
>>63945524
Most likely. She's a natural born pilot, which the last two Skywalkers were. Of course, Han was a great pilot, but we don't know if he was gifted with it. There's no proof one way or the other
>>63945645
Again: Luke had multiple failures by that point, messed up while blocking the lasers, and was a general goof. Rey was just serious business badass from the get-go/
>>63943794
I think anyone upstaging Han on his own ship would piss people off. Not only did she look like an instant genius on a ship she clearly knew little about previously, Han looked like a guy who didn't know anything about his own ship.
>>63945551
Finn and Rey are like some kids who fell into a movie or having a dream. If Rey woke up in bed with JJ at the end of the movie, I wouldn't bother so much.
>>63942449
She salvage several flight simulators and translators from several wrecked ships and co-pilot droids, also she wasn't an independent scavenger on most of her residency in Jakku, she used to work at Niima outpost and probably got mentored on what to scavenge. some anon posted her diary.
>>63945645
Literally anyone could have one-shotted the Death Star; the problem was getting into the trench and not getting shot down. Luke only did it because the other guy got blown up and Han cleared the way for him to make the shot.
>>63945370
>Literally everything hippies in America can write about is being opressed and drugs.
>Opression begins where my feelings are hurt.
>>63945817
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agcRwGDKulw
>>63945752
I think people forget that Han really didn't give a shit about fixing his ship. Chewy was the one constantly doing repairs. Han just slapped shit together enough for it to fly and that was it. Then by the time he's with Rey, he'd not even had the ship for several years and is old, so he'd be at least a little bit off his game.
>>63942280
>repelling and climbing
Guess you weren't paying attention to the part where she is literally swinging around like a monkey in the wreckage of that ship looking for parts, which she does literally all the time.
>Desert survival
Guess you didn't watch the movie. She literally lives in a desert.
>Melee combat
Guess you missed the part where she literally carries a melee staff and she literally takes out some goons with obvious skill. Probably has had to defend herself against robbers and shit.
>Multilingual
Could have picked it up from all the people that visit her piece of shit town. Or has something to do with her past.
>Advanced piloting
Guess you missed the part where she does a pretty shitty job at piloting.
>Advanced engineering and repairs
Don't remember any "advanced engineering." She either got lucky or it was just basic stuff. You probably forgot the part though where she literally spends all of her time collecting and taking apart ship parts. I would imagine you'd pick some things up after years of this shit.The ship belonged to her boss, she's obviously been in it before and explored it, hence why she would know how it works.
>Lightsaber combat
Guess you forgot the part where she was literally shown to be proficient in combat with a melee staff. Lightsaber isn't much of a jump.
Guess you also forgot the part where Kylo was emotionally distraught after killing his father and was just shot with a weapon that as previously shown to be able to send people flying 20 feet.
Nothing impressive about that win.
>>63945292
John Cena is a mary-sue. So what?
It's fucking hilarious that even though this film has tons of flaws, and the internet at large recognizes them, ONLY on /tv/ is it an insurmountable issue that the much feared and hated female sex is given any agency or ability.
Virtually everybody is down with this character except you, and it's because you're a pathetic kissless virgin who panics at the notion that his hatred of women might not be well founded.
>>63946112
>Guess you missed the part where she does a pretty shitty job at piloting.
Flies an old and busted freighter through a derelict starship and outmaneuvers two professional starfighter pilots with a gunner that fired his first blaster literal days before.
>>63942099
>muh training
They show leaving her on jakku when she was like 6 or 8 years old, no more than that, what kind of training in sword fighting AND the force can a kid of that age fucking receive?
Kylo's training wasn't complete as snoke says but sure as hell he trained and used the force much more than her.
How would they explain the impossible faggot?
They should've just made luke save the day.
>>63946112
>missing the point
what are rey's flaws, anon? flaws that prevent her from achieving her goals? because that's how characters grow
>>63945098
>>63944979
Anakin was a wannabe, sure he won the race, but he got BTFO pretty much in every duel except the last one against dooku.
>Daisy about getting the role
>"I told my mum and my sister. My sister didnāt believe me. I told my dad and he just said 'I was always a Trek man.' Cheers, Dad!"
Based.
>>63945817
>Negative, it didn't go in. Just impacted on the surface.
>Luke, you turned your targeting computer off. What's wrong?
Seriously, if you think anyone could have done what Luke did you're a fucking idiot.
>>63946112
>Lightsaber isn't much of a jump.
According to who? You?
Holy fuck anakin was way more powerful than her.
Fucking autism.
>>63942280
>>63942280
>Blasters
Pretty sure she had trouble using the thing in the first place
>Evasion
She's sneaky?
>mind control
What are ancient Jedi folktales?
>mind reading
You mean after she copied what Kylo was doing to her?
>telekinesis
Already implied that she was very force sensitive.Grabbing lightsabers is nothing impressive. Not to mention she has some connection with the lightsaber. (which you probably forgot)
>resistance to dark side
She's the new chosen one. What do you expect? Her force literally awakened.
>>63946331
In all fairness if you look at how she wields it, they obviously considered that she's coming at it with a staff wielder's moveset. Great choreography in that final duel.
>>63942099
She is obviously Luke's Daughter
Ben Solo is at least a decade older than rey. Luke started training him when he was very young. Luke seeked out of force sensitives in the galaxy and started training them as well. Then Luke and his wife had Rey. Once Rey is old enough she starts training as well. She shows immense natural talent, learning advanced force techniques at a much earlier age than Ben had, who is now entering early adulthood.
Ben starts learning more about Anakin, his grandfather. Luke will not divulge much, but ben has a run in with snook. jealous of Reys more natural ability with the force, Ben eventually succumbs to the darkside. He takes on a new mentor, snook, who claims he can teach him the ways of the darkside of the force, but he has to kill Luke, and the other students
Ben kills all or most of the other students, including Reys mother, but is not powerful enough to defeat luke, who also keep ben from killing his daighter.
Luke is devastated at his failure with Ben, the son if his sister and best friend. He also new ben will be back to challenge him again, and to kill his daughter. Using a force technique he had learned, he represses Reys memories of him and the others, and her Jedi training and leaves her with someone he trusts on the planet Jakku. Luke starts his search for the first Jedi temple and what his firends believe to be a self exile.
>>63946383
Almost fell for this post, that last part gave you away.
>>63945817
The movie itself doesn't agree with you, the first reaction is how the shot is too difficult. Luke says it isn't, and oh shit he's the one who pulls it off.
>>63946319
but his opponents kept getting the high ground!
>>63946209
>and it's because you're a pathetic kissless virgin who panics at the notion that his hatred of women might not be well founded.
but I always liked Leia growing up
>>63944517
>Villian has to be Formidable
It's a good twist that he's kind of a manchild. Also just forget that he got shot in the kidney m7
>>63944646
Fucking dogshit Comparison. Vader was already an established badass, we learn that Ren is just an untrained tryhard, and i like that
>>63946331
Just basic common sense? If you can swing around a staff you won't have much trouble swinging around a fucking sword-like weapon.
>>63945428
So? How does Lucas not knowing how to make movies make her Mary Sue?
>>63946383
>had trouble using a blaster
She fumbled with the safety for 5 seconds and then made every shot from a long distance while trained from birth Stormtroopers missed around her.
>>63946521
A lightsaber has no weight in the blade they are the most awkward pieces of shit to wield ever. There is a reason only Jedi use them and other plebs use stuff like the staff Rey uses.
>>63946274
She doesn't know anything about her past
She doesnt know how to let go
Shes ignorant about the force
She hasnt had any actual jedi training
There's a ton of stuff for her to build on.
>>63946435
maybe if they bulls-eyed womp rats back home they could have nailed the shot
>>63946538
See>>63946319
Was he a good pilot? Yes he was and showed talent for that from an early age, but as a jedi he was pretty shitty, even his use of the force was matched by obi-wan (shown in their duel in ep3 when both of them try to force push each other)
>>63946521
>UH UH NOON XCFDXDXDXDXDDXDX If you dont have the force youll think lightsaber goes into yeer arm and cut yourself off XDXDX
It's a fucking glorified Sword, albeit more powerful.
It isn't rocket science. The Force is the true mystical weapon of the jedi
>>63945251
And Obi-Wan talks about how Luke is a good pilot as well. And even then, Luke doesn't make the shot on his own. He gets saved by Han before he gets BTFO, then he has Ben in his head guiding his every move.
It's not the same, stop trying to pretend that it is.
What if she kicks the shit out of Ren and then becomes evil? And then the whole point is she's the most powerful Force user that ever lived and that's why she had her memory wiped because she was starting to lean towards the Dark Side and Luke didn't want to take the chance. So she becomes the most powerful villian even more powerful than Sheev or Vader.
I think a female villian in Star Wars would be pretty cool...
>>63946624
>She doesn't know anything about her past
wat
>>63946521
You need common sense, a sword is much different from a staff, even more so when said sword can cut through anything, burn at the sole lightly touch and has no weight at all.
>>63946601
Well they are stormtroopers, and she did miss shots.
Also fuck off back to /pol/ please?
>>63946661
So, was this your first introduction to Star Wars?
Did your mom take you on release day?
>>63946650
He was fucking 9 and blew up a CIS capital ship on accident after crashing into it, in his first time in a starfighter, your argument is infucking valid
also Lucas went no-where with the force and everywhere with the lightsaber
Anakin is supposed to be The best they ever was, and gets his ass kicked in all but one Duel
>>63946612
>most awkward pieces of shit to wield ever
According to who? You? :^)
Big whoop, she has to adjust to the weight difference
>>63946730
It's a pretty big whoop for anyone except a Mary Sue.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
If Disney came out and said.
>Midichlorians aren't a thing anymore
>Jedi training all your childhood and adolescence isn't a thing anymore
It would be a little better. But she'd still be a too-capable prodigy who's the best at everything she does.
>>63946730
>I'm a retard
nice post.
you can't touch the blade of a lightsaber at all unlike a staff and the flat side of a sword. This completely changes the way of thinking when using it.
>>63946661
That was kind of my point.
>>63946666
Phasma?
>>63946714
The lightsaber is Basically Excalibur You don;t need to be a fucking jedi to use one. Non jedi have used them. Don't use your faggot Fan Fiction books to counter this. Just because some autist in a basement thinks that the lightsaber was more than just a novelty weapon. Doesn't make it so
>>63946410
I bet it goes like that, but instead of it being Luke's kid, it's obiwans grandkid.
Luke takes a shining to her, she's a natural, like anakin, and ren gets jealous because she's advancing much faster than him.
It's the first time hes faced with someone with more talent than him, so he turns to the knights of ren, who are merely dark Jedi knights, not sith. They hail him as the second coming of Vader, feed his ego, and then pushes him to wipe out the light side knights who "turned from him"
It fits the narrative.
>>63946696
>pointing out a character being too competent is /pol/
Nah, this is where I belong. You're welcome to return to Tumblr though. They eat shit up without question just like you. :^)
>>63946666
I could see it being revealed that she was actually the one who slaughtered Luke's academy and was exiled to Jakku as punishment while Ben cried like a bitch because he wasn't hardcore enough to help her with the massacre and stayed home
>>63946723
>all but one Duel
Dooku literally moved his sword and cut his hand, making him pass out, he also lost against obi-wan who was supposed to be a mediocre force user, the jedi council also didn't consider anakin ready to be a master and iirc R2-D2 copiloted the ship that blew up converted merchant ship.
>>63946666
That would be Star Wars on crack or a narcissistic disorder. You're missing the magic of the fairy tale.
>>63946666
You know how much complaining Disney would get if they actually made her a villian. As cool as it sounds there is no way they will ever do that for the fear of the complaints they would get from changing a powerful female protagonist to the villian. Unfortunately Rey is the Bella Swan of the Star Wars universe and we are getting the Twilight version as movies.
>>63946786
A sword isn't that otherworldy a fucking concept anon...
>blade goes at enemy not at me
>weight imbalance makes it unweildy because reasons
It's just better for a jedi because of their enhanced reactions
>>63946723
isn't the whole point of Anakin's character that he was exceptionally gifted and believed to be the chosen one, but they were wrong and trained him wrong as a result, making him crazy?
>>63942099
If she turned out to be madly force sensitive that doesn't explain:
>How she can outfly others in a worse ship
>How she can talk to droids
>How she can talk to wookie
>How she could use a saber
>How she could hack open doors
>How she kept a cool head throughout the whole movie
Even if they do say she is force sensitive to the umpteenth degree, that is terrible story telling. Having to find out why a character could do everything two years after the fact.
She is the ultimate Mary Sue.
>>63946812
Don't fucking remind me. Here is her entire importance in the movie.
>ordered one firing squad
>bossed Fin around; spoke with Kylo
>got ambushed without a fight and got tossed in the garbage
>may or may not have escaped in time for the planet to blow up
Zero action scenes and she's a coward who betrayed the First Order and cost them the Starkiller and thousands of lives.
>>63946817
>The lightsaber is Basically Excalibur
cool totally canon info bruh
>>63946817
>This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
A quote by Obi-wan from ANH, you should watch it. And non Jedi haven't used them in anything but faggot fan fiction books, as you put it.
Except when Han cut open that Taun Taun, I guess.
>>63946848
>r2 copiloted
No he didn't fuck off a fucking child accidentally blew up a capital ship, Anakin controlled it the whole time, in his first flight
>>63946822
A strong female character like this never ever happens in movies. She is not only a very good character, but also a very important character outside the movie which can show girls that they can be badass as well. Stop trying to take that away from us.
>>63946817
You are right, but to defeat or even have a slim chance against someone that had years of training with it you need training yourself, something she didn't have at all or perhaps just barely (considering that it looks like she was 8 or less when she was dropped on jakku)
>>63946817
>Don't use your faggot Fan Fiction books to counter this
>Non jedi have used them
Aside from Fin failing miserably to beat anyone with one, when have non jedi used them aside from fanfiction books?
>>63946948
don't respond to this shitpost anons
i just wish they casted melissa mccarthy as rey
>>63945551
Yeah remember all those piloting scenes with Luke before he hopped into an x wing for the first time and single handedly destroyed a moon-sized battle station?
The piloting doesn't bother me so much, but i do agree about how fast she learned the ways of the force. If they don't give some kind of explanation, it'd be pretty retarded
>>63946954
people disliking something you like doesn't take it away from you unless you're not confident in your opinions and taste in the first place.
>>63946786
Thanks for saving me the trouble of calling you a retard. At least you're self aware enough to realize your own flaws.
It doesn't take a genius to realize you can't touch the blade of a lightsaber (you might find the concept difficult though). I don't remember any scene where she's smacking herself instead of her opponents with that staff, why would she have trouble not hitting herself with a lightsaber?
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a fucking lightsaber blade will cut you. I don't remember any scene where she's
>>63946888
Someone would mass produce them if normal people could use them. They are easy to carry and can cut doors and shit with ease. any competent army or mercenary could find great use of them.
Why are people so buttblasted and going full defense mode just because the lead of a movie is criticized?
>>63946948
>"Let's try spinning; that's a cool move!"
>nobody shoots down the ship flying in a straight line, spinning like a retard
>new buzzword
>new
>>63946112
That single wrecked Star Destroyer has a shit ton of translators, flight sims, stormtrooper coarse and other useful information that are vital for her stay at Jakku, there are also a shit ton of wrecked co-pilot droids where she can salvage other useful protocols. Also the reason why she got dibs on the Imperial destroyer because humans are naturally good at climbing.
>>63946863
I don't know, she does share a lot of characteristics with Anakin. Although he was a child prodigy. But she could have been as well.
i hope the first order gets their own po
>>63946901
They trained him wrong as a joke?
>fanboys trying to deny the reality that they swallowed feminist propaganda whole
She's a mary sue, she is good at everything, with no explanation. She has no flaws.
The equivalent would be Luke fighting Darth Vader in episode 4.
That would be completely retarded right? Well that's literally what Rey does, except shes also good with a gun and can fix spaceships, and is a force master.
It's literally Furiosa all over again.
>>63947031
the biggest difference is still that Luke at least had a legit Jedi Master to teach him shit for a little bit while all Rey ever had was a half-trained Sith lackey trying to mindrape her
>>63946888
>She used to use a staff, so of course she can BTFO a trained Jedi/Sith Apprentice with a lighstaber!
Maybe if you didn't need hollywood movies to tell you what you can and can't do, people would take you more seriously.
>>63947124
Yes that's why we hated the prequels anon. It's 1999 all over again.
>>63947066
Because the reason people criticize her is nothing more then men being scared of an actual strong female protagonist.
>>63947201
Furiosa is tame compared to Rey.
>>63946901
Nah lucas just thought the Saber was the end all for jedi.
>>63946929
>This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
Yes Both Ob1 and Palpatine have said this. Sheev Entirely hinting that sith don't use them and Vader had it as a novelty
Weapon Of Jedi Does not=omgonlyjediscanusethis
A non Jedi Luke used one and Han Solo Used One. albeit short use. What i am trying to say is the Weapon can be used by Non Force users. Or even Weak use of force training. Luke only needed a hard days night to Somewhat hold his ground against Vader in Empire.
>>63947052
>Run around a battle field with laser beam death weapons with a sword.
It's literally just a sword.
>>63947236
>She used to use a staff, so of course she can BTFO a tryhard wannabe Jedi/Sith Apprentice with a lighstaber who got shot in the kidney!
FTFY
She'll get rekt in Ep.8 just wait
On the staff and lightsaber argument, surely wielding a staff is much different from using a lightsaber?
>>63947236
She used da force tho
Rey is just too good at everything, and as a result she's just not very interesting.
>>63947201
>feminist propaganda
Your post just lost any credibility
Go back to crying about how there's a black man in the movie at /pol/
>>63947266
lel. men like a hero who gets his ass kicked like Bruce Willis in the first Die Hard, or Rocky
You're a bunch of whiny faggots, Rey was fine.
>>63947201
>they swallowed feminist propaganda whole
Not this time, this time it was JJ's incompetence, he said himself that he thought of using luke to come to the rescue but he didn't want to make him steal the spotlight from the protagonist (rey) which I guess he realized that she's pretty fucking boring.
>>63947247
meant for
>>63946954
>>63947288
>It's literally just a sword.
A sword that can cut through blast doors block lasers takes up no space and can turn its pointy end off. Can also double as a glow stick when needed.
>>63947313
Pretty sure only one guy is trying to argue that point, and he's grasping at straws pretty hard.
>>63947288
>a tryhard wannabe Jedi/Sith Apprentice
He was literally trained by Luke Skywalker. He can stop blaster shots dead in the air with the force, a feat no one has ever been able to do before.
The hoops you're jumping through for your waifu are just ridiculous.
>>63947266
No one is having this problem. The only reason people are pissed is because she is the first Star Wars lead to be a fucking Mary Sue. Not even Anakin fit into the category as bad as the prequels were.
>>63947236
Since you didn't watch the movie, Kylo just got shot by the most powerful blaster in the series and is an emotional wreck after killing his father.
He's not a sith. He's barely trained.
Maybe you should see the movie??
>>63947347
Who wins in the end. I guess they are bigger mary sues then rey. :^)
>>63947313
Yeah but you've still got the basic, try not to get hit while hitting the other guy, thing going on.
Also, lightsabers weigh something. This is a detail the EU gets wrong a lot.
SHE BEAT KYLO BECAUSE HE WAS SHOT IN THE FUCKING CHEST EARLIER
THE MOVIE MAKES THIS EVIDENTLY CLEAR WHEN HE FIGHTS FINN
Fuck, you people are so dense. Stop overthinking this.
>>63947403
Rocky ties actually
shes a qt
>>63947371
Still just a sword you dumb nigger
>>63947396
>He was literally trained by Luke Skywalker. He can stop blaster shots dead in the air with the force, a feat no one has ever been able to do before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHH6YVHGh90
>Being good at the force when not in babby tantrum mode means he should win a fight when injured
Also
>Villian winning in the first act
First time watching a movie?
>>63947201
Disney turned Star Wars into Twilight.
If you don't see that, you've been indoctrinated by mass media into not going against the narrative, you fear the thought police, so you do not dare criticize the movie. The flick didn't even get to number one in Japan or Korea.
>>63947397
Padme was a little bit of a mary sue.
>>63947401
And he still beats finn easily which was a stormtrooper with actual combat training (probably some melee techniques too if we go by our military) as opposed to rey which barely had any if any at all.
>>63947313
How? If anything, it takes more skill to wield a staff than a sword.
>>63947201
Furiosa lost to Max when she had the brides tugging his chain; though admittedly Nux helped prepare a gun for him to end the fight.
>>63947512
>she beats up three guys with a staff in the first 30 minutes
shut up you stupid fuck who didn't even watch the movie
>>63947414
That's the point, she can't lose at anything.
>>63947457
The suddenly more exagerrated chewing when the helmet goes on helps.
>>63942099
>If they explained in the next movie why she is this and it made sense, would you still be upset?
I'm not really upset now, but if they explained it in the next movie I wouldn't criticize the character for being a Mary Sue anymore.
>>63942099
Mary Sues are excessively important, competent, successful, and "special" characters who only seem to struggle due to external circumstances beyond their control, rather than any internal flaws. They're just "chosen ones" taken to an extreme. It really doesn't matter whether you explain it with "w-well she's secretly the daughter of the most powerful fighter in the universe and has an 190 IQ and was raised by a clan of desert ninjas and..." Also there's inherently more wiggle room for older characters, which is why Mary Sues tend to be young.
>>63947480
>posts a video that proves the other anon's post
>forgets that Sith draw power from pain and emotion
Is everyone defending this movie retarded?
>>63947512
>as opposed to rey which barely had any if any at all.
You should watch the movie.
It's pretty good.
>>63946954
>fictional make believe completely unrealistic super heroine magic mary sue is a good role model for girls
>the best role model for boys is their father
>a strong female character like this never happens in movies
it does, they're just always retarded mary sues because anything less than perfection would be good storytelling and bad politics
>>63947414
He was clearly winning against her despite his injury until she closed her eyes and made a wish on the Force and suddenly became super competent with a weapon she's never used before
>>63947401
>>63947414
You guys don't really know what a Jedi is capable of, do you? Let alone a Dark Jedi
>>63947401
>he's barely trained
He was trained by fucking Luke Skywalker, and 'barely trained' is not an excuse to have a shit villain.
If Luke had beaten Vader in A New Hope, we could sit around all day making bulshit excuses like you are for Rey, but it would still be shit.
>>63947512
pretty simple. finn doesn't carry around a fucking melee staff all time time. he's a stormtrooper, he uses a blaster.
or you could just say that Rey is simply more skilled than Finn is
>>63947552
Fucking retard she beats 2 thugs with a staff I could do that too, try to fucking beat a black belt with years of training behind his shoulders, let's see how it goes.
>>63947548
Furiosa:
>best at fighting, beats Max and Immortan Joe at hand to hand combat
>best at shooting
>best at driving
Literally Furiosas only flaw was that she couldn't do two things at once and needed Max.
I would still be upset because if it needs to be explained in the next movie it will feel like poor writing and pacing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpS6TlqgLIQ
>>63944176
they also left him out because LoTR movies are long as shit as is and there is absolutely no reason to add him as it's not his story.
That was the whole point of Tom Bombadil. The magic of the ring didn't affect him because he literally didn't belong in the story. In a book adding in shit like that is fine because you can pick up and put down books whenever you want so length doesn't matter so much. Only autists and NEETS would want another 10-20 minutes tacked on Fellowship to explain a character who will literally never be relevant at all. Especially when 75% of fellowship was introducing the characters to begin with.
>>63947480
I could have sworn that Vader DIDN'T stop a laser bolt in mid-air. Am I just blind?
>>63947414
Yeah but given that Rey is probably a force prodigy and is likely going to be trained by Luke, I don't see Ren every catching up. It reduces tension and Kylo's menace. The fact the Rey is so attuned to the force with so little effort greatly limits room for development, she seems like she could become the strongest Jedi ever after a few days of actual training. Its not the justification of the fight that worries me as much as how it presents the stage for further developments.
>>63947556
No you dumb fuck, Kylo can't win in the first act
Kylo got all the development in this movie, our protagonists (all three, all Luke standins in different dimensions) did not to the same degree, as they're ensemble, and their arcs will conclude differently
You literally don't know how to watch movies
>>63947617
Yeah and she's dropped on jakku when she looked like an 8 years old, perhaps you should switch your brain on.
Tell me of what kind of amazing training you could have got at that age.
>>63946666
She needs to either go dark or die. Her character is awful and means she needs no supporting cast.
Kylo Ren, Pilot boy, Finn and Chewie would be a great little star-wars esque team to run around with.
>>63947605
THe point is that Kylo isn't in control, they fucking illustrate this and he took way more damage the we have ever seen someone take in a saber fight and still kept fighting
>proves his point
Fucking how? Vader just did the same thing. Ren was just showing off
>>63947457
Yeah that scene was adorable.
Too bad it's just poetry of Luke playing with a toy X-Wing at home.
>>63946954
>the best role model for women according to feminists is a Mary Sue who is the best at everything, never fails and can beat those evil White Cis Men in combat
So the cycle continues, those girls are just going to become bitter cunts once they turn to adults and realize women really aren't the best at anything besides twitter.
>>63947633
Of which he is neither. He's an angsty wannabe darth vader who lets his anger get the better of him resulting in his ass getting handed to him. Not to mention he got shot.
>>63947201
Everything furiosa tried to accomplish failed and the only way she got a happy ending was with a guys plan and another guys sacrifice
Only thing she had going for her was initiative to actually try something
>>63947643
>kylo
>black belt
>not a brat with no skillz
please watch the movie
>>63946730
Quite sure it is explicitly said in Ep 3. That is why they train with the saber on low heat, because it is so hard to use (get used to the weight) that they would saw off their limbs if they used it full power.
Not for Mary Sue though.
>>63947735
He had years of training with both the force AND the sword, use your brain moron there's literally no fucking way she could or should've beaten him.
They should have just dropped luke in and be done with it.
>>63947266
male mary sues are just as stupid and annoying you stupid roastie cunt
>strong female protagonist
>implying, of all places, 4chan doesn't fucking worship strong females in real life and media
go
back
to
tumblreddit
>>63947702
Vader blocked the blast, didn't stop it in midair.
>b-but Kylo was hurt!
Who the fuck cares if he was hurt? As someone who has experience with the force and fighting with a lightsaber, he should have wiped the floor with Rey and Finn.
>>63947714
Haha this is so true
Unrealistic expectations are actually going to fuck us over, at some point they'll be demanding little shrimp girls are allowed in the Navy SEALs
Did no one else get the vibe that Luke was using that force interspace bugaloo to guide Rey? Fairly certain I heard "these are your first steps" in Luke's voice when Ret first picks up the lightsaber.
>>63947729
Yes exactly, he's an angsty wannabe Darth Vader versus a Mary Sue.
Great fucking movie dude!
>>63947793
>He had years of training with both the force AND the sword
Don't remember that scene.
We get shown that he is just in that position for betraying Luke. He gets pissed on by superiors all the time, not even the New Order respects him. THey treat him like a fucking brat they don't want to piss off
>>63946666
>A white male can be a lecherous drunk. A woman can't or it's sexist. Sexualizing women and what all. A white male can be a mentally disturbed soldier who's mind is unraveling as he walks through the hell of the modern battleļ¬eld. A woman can't or you're victimizing women and saying they're all crazy.
>>63947735
Kylo did get shot in the gut by a bowcaster before the final fight.
That thing is basically a tank cannon.
It at least partially explains how he lost.
>>63946879
This is why the universe is dead. Plot is restricted by what pro-feminist pro-minority wants as well as toy sales.
>>63947714
I think you're on the wrong board! You see this Isnt /pol/.
>>63944687
too early to tell. The movie seemed to be fighting with itself between "they're totally gonna bang" and "Rey friendzoned him"
Even in A New Hope there was a little hint at the chemistry between Han and Leia. Either they're gonna pair nig nog and wonder woman, or Finn will meet a new love interest next movie while Rey is training with Luke, and Rey will take the "I'm a strong independent woman, I don't need no man" route.
>>63947835
That was Ewan McGregor. Many news outlets said this cameo.
>>63947848
Snoke literally said "it's time to complete his training" Implying that he trained him for a long time and now it was time to finish.
That's way fucking more training that Rey had.
