>it's a Robert E. Lee gets whooped by Grant episode
comfiest documentary of all time.
The fuck are you on about. Lee didn't lose to Grant, he lost because his generals were incompetent against Union generals. Gettysburg, the hinge of the war, was lost because of what occured with Pickett. Grant had fuck all to do with Lee.
Is there one like that about Vietnam?
>>63941517
>wilderness
>spotsylvania
>cold harbor
Grant basically killed more of his own men than Lee's
>it's a Grant gets drunk stuck in the mud outside Vicksburg episode
>>63941517
This documentary will someday be reedited or blacklisted for being too sympathetic to the southern cause and humanizing the Rebels.
>>63941577
lol someone's mad that Bitch Boy Lee got sodomized by Ulysses "Love Sausage" Grant
>>63941925
does that tinfoil hat get uncomfortable?
>the heavily industrialized north beat the agrarian south
NEVER COULDA SEEN THAT COMING
>shelby foote will never by your high school history teacher
I could listen to that guy talk for the rest of my life
>>63942018
CSA monuments and graves are being removed around the country right now.
Why not any media that honors them as well?
>>63941577
Grant was a very skilled and creative commander... but that was only expressed when his army was facing great adversity.
However when he went up against Lee as the war was coming to an end he had a massive advantage in men and materials and this execution of the campaign was simple and blunt, leading to lots of causalities as the larger Union army simply ground down the rebel force.
Fast-forwarded past all the slavery parts to get to the good stuff.
>>63941577
>because of Pickett
dumbass detected. Lee lost at Gettysburg because Longstreet and Ewell couldn't act unless Lee was there to hold their hands. Ewell could have occupied the high ground on Cemetery Ridge on day 1 but bitched out, and Longstreet dicked around and let Meade reinforce the Round Tops before attacking well into the afternoon instead of at morning like Lee wanted him to do.
Who's your favorite interview subject and why is it Shelby Foote?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4jHKTKYrXE
that voice is like the vocal equivalent of a mint julep and pipe tobacco
>>63941884
So what brand did he drink
>>63941577
Pickett had nothing to do with Pickett's charge, which was a charge conducted by many different battalions, one of which happened to be led by George Pickett. The Charge was ordered by Lee and Pickett never forgave Lee for the rest of his life. He said Lee and the fact that the charge became named after him ruined him.
>>63942387
He was deep in enemy territory, living off the land, I don't think he had a preferred brand just whatever he could take
>>63942387
>Besides Blackburn, many American politicians have declared their love for Old Crow. It has been said that it was the drink of choice for American general and later 18th President of the United States, Ulysses S. Grant.[4] An apocryphal story about Grant's drinking has the general's critics going to President Abraham Lincoln, charging the military man with being a drunk. Lincoln is supposed to have replied, "By the way, gentlemen, can either of you tell me where General Grant procures his whiskey? Because, if I can find out, I will send every general in the field a barrel of it!"[5]
Old Crow Whiskey, but that's possibly just a marketing campaign the company came up with years later
>>63941517
>it's a "here's what happened without political bullshit or bias" episode
So good.
>>63942218
true, but sending in Pickett was bullshit and even Longstreet knew it.
>General, I have been a soldier all my life. I have been with soldiers engaged in fights by couples, by squads, companies, regiments, divisions, and armies, and should know, as well as any one, what soldiers can do. It is my opinion that no fifteen thousand men ever arrayed for battle can take that position.
>>63942433
>He was deep in enemy territory, living off the land, I don't think he had a preferred brand just whatever he could take
I like to imagine that Grant specifically ordered his men to find the best whiskey available while they were foraging.
>The whole segment where Grant and Lee meet to discuss terms of surrender.
Fuck me I teared up. The stuff of legend.
>A worried Jefferson Davis now prepared for a siege of Richmond, relying more and more on the advice of his close military adviser, Robert E. Lee. When Davis asked Lee where Lee though the South’s next defensive line should be drawn once Richmond fell, Lee said, "Richmond must not fall. It shall not be given up." Still, George McClellan refused to attack. Though his army still outnumbered the rebels, he remained convinced the opposite was true. One observer noted that McClellan had a particular faculty for "realizing hallucinations".
mcclellan you fucking shithead!
>>63942512
It was a desperate Napoleonic gambit that Lee should never have ordered but Longstreet's failure to act in that battle doomed Lee. Instead of moping around and complaining about how they should disengage and swing around, leaving the battlefield he should have done his job. Lee wasn't used to micromanaging his corp commanders, Longstreet was usually solid and Jackson was plain brilliant so when Lee had to baby sit Hill and Ewell who were new to command he shouldn't have to have been concerned that Longstreet would let him down when he needed him most.
Everyone likes to blame Lee for the loss and Pickett's charge but that battle was lost when Ewell elected to not take an undefended Culp's Hill despite his generals pleading for it and then when Longstreet sat around on the second day and letting Chamberlain get his regiment in position
>>63942653
>there are no lees left in the world
Why even live
>>63942997
My favorite bit was General Magruder marching his men in a big circle to make it look like there were thousands of them
>>63942218
Notice I said what happened WITH pickett. I didn't shelve the blame on him. Next try comprehending the sentence before you slam autistically on your keyboard idiot. If they don't make that charge and wait, they win the battle and win the war. Simply.
>consider maybe watching Ken Burns' baseball documentary
>it's a trillion years long
>>63942349
>gets in this documentary
>dramatically more face time than any other person
>suddenly book sales of his civil war compendium skyrocket
>becomes a millionaire
>credits Burns with it entirely
What a guy
If you didn't cry or at least tear up at this you are not a human being
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNfBdzpG6L4
https://youtu.be/jpBuky70rMg
>>63943173
>If they don't make that charge and wait, they win the battle and win the war
Do you actually believe this? Instead of getting anal devastated on 4chan you should read a history book.
>>63941884
daily reminder that Grant was in no way a drunk and drank no more or less than a man did at the time. Any information to the contrary is southern exceptionalist propaganda
>>63943085
But is to blame for pickett's charge. even his own damn corps commander told him it was a bad idea. no need to get 7 thousand men killed for nothing. and he probably is responsible for Ewell too, for being ambiguous with his orders. he should have told him to do it faggot, not "well, you know, if you can i guess."
I love how they made this incredibly accessible film for american youth to follow and really appreciate the significance of their greatest conflict. blows me away every time
if lee detested slavery, why did he fight for it?
would you take up arms against an invading force that wanted to destroy a way of life that allowed slavery
i'm just kidding, i don't really know what i'm talking about so could someone please clarify this
>>63943263
>tfw
>>63943343
Have you ever been to Gettysburg? Have you seen Roundtops and and Devils Den and the ground? Do you know the shit Union was in if they had stayed? The battle was over before the third day even happened because of the charge.
>>63943579
He was offered command of the Union Army because he loved Virginia more than his country - as most people did identify back then with a state or town or region more than the country. He was loyal, nothing more nothing less.
>>63943579
>if lee detested slavery, why did he fight for it?
He was fighting for his home, not for slavery.
He also felt that even though slavery was immoral, that it was not the right of the federal government to decide for all the states whether or not to allow it.
>>63943579
Back then the US was still very splintered and people tended to care more about their individual states rather than their country as a whole. When Virginia seceded, Lee couldn't take up arms against his statesmen, so he accepted a command in charge of the Army of Northern Virginia
>>63943417
Bullshit, in both Grant's and Sherman's memoirs they reference Grant falling into bouts of extreme alcoholism, especially after Grant was relieved of command after Ft. Donaldson.
>>63943421
Generals need to make decisions, that's why they are Generals. Lee couldn't have been at every point in his army at once to assume direct command, Ewell fucked him big time by being indecisive
>>63941517
wrong.
>>63943749
Are you complaining about women being in the military? If yes you are just a grandpa, that should be the least of your concerns in a civil war
>>63943608
>Union has all the high ground that commands the entire battle field
explain to me how the Union army was fucked if they stayed
>>63942349
a dying breed, may god rest his soul
>>63943818
i really meant like manliness, gruffness of the men
>>63943825
>Union entirely encircled and a bigger force on the way to wait them out, could also target Washington with the entire northern army north of your position
hmm I dont know
>>63941517
> grant
>good
Amerifats generals are a joke, read a history book. Even a sub par European general like Napoleon could beat every amerifart general combined.
>>63943085
>Lee's decision to invade the north doomed Lee.
>The south's decision to succeed doomed it.
They never had a chance and were lucky to drag it out as long as they did.
>>63943721
while I have not read Sherman's memoirs and can't comment on them their is no reference to Grant's alcoholism in his own memoirs. Please cite the pages that discuss this. I will remind you that Grant's memoirs are in the public domain and easily searchable.
its on netflix
>>63943949
>Union entirely encircled and a bigger force on the way to wait them out, could also target Washington with the entire northern army north of your position
Dude what? The Union army at Gettysburg had over 20000 more soldiers than the south, your "encircled" comment is flat out wrong and there were still some 40000 troops in Washington to defend the capitol. Lee would have been sandwiched between the most heavily defended city in the world and the largest standing army in the world if he tried to attack Washington without first defeating Meade. Stop fucking replying to me you anal astronaut it's obvious you don't know what you are talking about
>>63944050
I love this epic Americans are bad at war meme. Europeans at the time thought this and then they got to fight their first modern war and suffered even more appalling casualties as a result of even dumber blunders after having decades more time to figure it out.
>>63944216
I don't have the pages from Sherman's memoir, but the quote is verbatim "Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk and now we stand by each other".
not mine but
>>63944050
If Napoleon is subpar I'd ask you to name 3 quality european generals
>>63944425
yeah I think the Washington Post did it. Really suffers from not having David McCullough narrate it.
>>63941517
The North obviously had the high ground, they were bound to win no matter what. The South shouldn't have tried it.
Oops, I was wrong. Grant wasn't relieved after Ft. Donelson, he was relieved of command after the battle of Shiloh. He considered resigning his commission and Sherman talked him out of it.
>>63941819
lol, yeh and Grant was on offensive almost this entire time. Yeh Cold Harbor frontal assault was stupid & Grant never repeated.
>>63944168
>They never had a chance and were lucky to drag it out as long as they did.
Well if they achieved diplomatic recognition and/or peace democrats won enough elections (both possible with a few more opportune confederate military successes) the south could have won independence.
There was a world outside of the battlefield.
>>63944650
And he readily admitted the mistake.
>>63942168
traitous fagtards all - honor a bag of dicks while your at it.
>>63943173
> with Pickett
one could also make the argument that they lost because of what happened with Lee.
>>63942489
>implying
Pretty much everyone in it, including good ol' boy Foote, says the Civil War was fought over slavery when it fucking wasn't. Tell me that isn't bias.
>>63944382
A man isn't allowed to get drunk at any point in 4 years? I don't think getting drunk once or even 2 or 3 times makes you a drunk but I can see we are in danger of entering the land of semantics. In addition several other people, most notably General Rawlins have all attested to at least a relative sobriety
>Go to visit Gettysburg in middle school.
>Like 45 mins away
>Kid in our group casually spits on the ground
>I sperg out on him
>Acts respectfully the rest of the trip
>>63944663
This.
Great Britain was pretty close to officially recognizing the CSA and would have ran off the Union blockade. Slavery kept them from outright doing so but they still smuggled weapons and shit to the CSA.
>>63944650
Grant pretty much pulled a Zapp Branagan or 40k on the confederate army, throwing wave after wave of troops at them.
>>63944832
>Muh state's rights
Go back to your trailer park. The civil war was fought over southern rights. The major right in question being the right to own and profit from the labor of human beings. The confederates knew it assholes blasted southerners and closet racists want to forget.
>>63945048
Are the African lords who sold their own people into slavery also racist?
>>63945019
GB could have broken a blockade but done nothing on land the union army would have crushed the south anyway. It was the largest and best equipped in the world. And Britain wasn't as close to support as you're making out and the effect of the loss of southern cotton wasn't as grave either. They switched to Egypt pretty easily.
>>63944861
Grant had a reputation of being a drinker LONG before the Civil War. George McClellan refused to offer him a commission because of he heard he was constantly drunk while stationed out in California. Grant must have been a savage fucking drunk if those rumors followed him around while guys like General Joe Hooker got a free pass despite being a big drinker
>>63945017
quality post
>>63944922
are you me? I live in Baltimore and we used to go on trips there every year.
Why is 99% of media propaganda now you ask?
Post-modern elites (aka cultural marxists and their "useful idiots" the SJWs) have an agenda that isn't simply to mix races or eliminate a race. Their point is to disrupt social cohesion and any form of hierarchical or traditional social structure that could supersede government's authority. Whether it be marriage, the nuclear family, religion, cultural identity (usually identified by race or nationality), etc. any that can compete or overrule the state and pulls away control of the people, must be destroyed to further grow its power and influence. There are different methods of doing this but takes a lot of time to study and explain the impact of several race/class based policies. If you ever watch Thomas Sowell you'll know he explains some of it.
Yes, different races /could/ get along together in a society but that is not what we see. Why is that? Well, aside from racial determinism, we see special interest groups promoting the idea of victimized or disenfranchised minorities. A natural growth between different groups are impeded and instead forced artificial interaction disrupts the norm. This is generally done for political advantages and a moral high-ground. This causes enmity between races or classes while providing a platform for these manipulators, through the old rhetoric of egalitarianism, to create programs that benefit themselves in the guise of "doing good" for the minority or downtrodden.
While, some people are indeed well meaning most of them aren't able to either recognize or cope with the fact that the ideas they push for are unsuccessful and even destructive (welfare, minimum wage, affirmative action etc.). Furthermore these people are continuously fed more rhetoric by the "elite" groups (businesspersons e.g. bankers, cartels, politicians and community leaders e.g. Jesse Jackson, BLM, Green Party) to continue pushing for these policies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggFao85vTs
>>63945278
No, I live in PA. Baltimore is a shit hole aside from Johns Hopkins desu
>>63945389
You've obviously never been then. Only nigger infested West Baltimore is shit, East and North Baltimore are comfy as fuck
>>63945477
I went there multiple times every year for 5 years for cancer treatment. Fucking homeless people and sketchy shit everywhere
>>63943085
Ewell was never in position to take any hill let alone undefended Culp's Hill his corps had already marched there ass'es off and fought hard that day & were strungout without anychance of concentrating for assault upon a undefended hill or otherwise. The Union had the no problem shifting forces to their left & enjoyed the advantage supply & reinforcement due to their defense & interior lines. Lee orders depended on cordinated attacks by units seperated by distances measured in miles on opposing flanks.
>>63945543
Now that you mention it the area around Johns Hopkins is kinda sketchy. Hope the treatment went well though.
>>63945130
Completely irrelevant to the discussion of slavery at the time of the Civil War. The South did not import many slaves, and relied almost entirely on those born into slavery by that point.
>>63945750
A decade in remission now
>>63945721
>The battle was over and we had won it handsomely. General Ewell moved about uneasily, a good deal excited, and seemed to me to be undecided what to do next. I approached him and said: "Well, General, we have had a grand success; are you not going to follow it up and push our advantage?"
He replied that General Lee had instructed him not to bring on a general engagement without orders, and that he would wait for them.
I said, "That hardly applies to the present state of things, as we have fought a hard battle already, and should secure the advantage gained". He made no rejoinder, but was far from composure. I was deeply impressed with the conviction that it was a critical moment for us and made a remark to that effect.
As no movement seemed immediate, I rode off to our left, north of the town, to reconnoitre, and noticed conspicuously the wooded hill northeast of Gettysburg (Culp's), and a half mile distant, and of an elevation to command the country for miles each way, and overlooking Cemetery Hill above the town. Returning to see General Ewell, who was still under much embarrassment, I said, "General, There," pointing to Culp's Hill, "is an eminence of commanding position, and not now occupied, as it ought to be by us or the enemy soon. I advise you to send a brigade and hold it if we are to remain here." He said: "Are you sure it commands the town?" [I replied,] "Certainly it does, as you can see, and it ought to be held by us at once." General Ewell made some impatient reply, and the conversation dropped. - CSA General Isaac Trimble
>>63945329
>minimum wage
>destructive
sure is corporate lackey in here
I watched the entire series a few years ago but I don't remember a single thing from it. I found it so boring that it enhanced my knowledge of your burgerstani civil war by zero.
>>63945859
Howard's corps, in particular, had been roughly handled by Ewell's forces the day before, but reinforcements had rushed to the scene and stabilized the line, which was now shaped like an inverted fishhook, with the hook's curve sweeping west from Culp's Hill to Cemetery Hill.
>>63946143
You are talking about after Ewell chose not to occupy Culp's hill dude
>>63945862
>brainwashed sjw shill
>doesn't use brain
>doesn't research for self
>doesn't understand what happens when minimum wage is raised too high
>wants free things
>has never traveled
>has never been to switzerland or other left states
>doesn't know a mcdonalds combo in switzerland is $25
>into the trash he goes
How do economics work? Me want free things!
>>63944168
They never had a chance in military terms, but if Lee's gambit had paid off it might have been enough to tip the politics in the North into the "make peace" camp and that would have been a southern victory. Even late in the war, as in the last few months, that nearly could have have happened.
>>63941925
Won't happen. Burns' documentary is a cultural milestone and still gets HUGE ratings whenever it gets rerun during pledge drive periods.
It will never be butchered and who's going to make a replacement for it to justify mouthballing Burns' version? I don't see SJWers having anyone willing to put in the time, energy, and work to put together their own replacement version that removes all sympathetic view of the South in favor of 100% villification.
Is Ken Burns the GOAT?
>>63946415
I actually found The Civil War to be just a tad left leaning, it really pushes the claim the slavery was the cause and reason of the war.
>>63946568
I don't know if thats really left leaning and not just popular opinion
>>63946568
The series paints the Confederacy as largely being filled with normal folks who were not satanically evil and who did fight for "states rights" or because it was the "cool" thing to do.
Big no-no things for liberals who want to paint the South as traitors who were worse if not equal to Nazis.
>>63946728
well yeah, academia is left-leaning
>>63946306
Ewell did not hav forces to occupy Culp's hill dude. Look at the losses for Day 1 before 4:30.
try again
>>63946568
>I actually found The Civil War to be just a tad left leaning, it really pushes the claim the slavery was the cause and reason of the war.
can you explain what should have received more focus, and what was the cause and reason of the war?
>>63946834
>muh liberal thought-police boogeyman
i hang out with mostly liberal people, and none of them are advocating to rewrite history or turn history into propagands
>>63946840
You've already been thoroughly been BTFO, just stop posting
>muh suthrin hairtedge
all that butthurt
>>63947029
sounds lik another butt hurt Lee apologist.
stop breathing
>>63941517
>ashokan farewell starts playin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kZASM8OX7s
>>63946925
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
>Not talking about the GOAT Ken Burns doc
>>63947149
top kek
>>63943813
https://youtu.be/pzf9aHZmCAM
a close second
>>63945048
Yeah, hundreds of thousands of Northern men went to war to free black people from slavery. That's why they were getting horrifically killed and maimed on the battlefield.
To liberate black people.
>>63948176
Bleeding Kansas don't real. Go to bed, Cletus.
>>63946568
>I actually found The Civil War to be just a tad left leaning, it really pushes the claim the slavery was the cause and reason of the war.
I think slavery was the central issue, but it's the nature of the problem of slavery that is often ignored.
Namely, did the federal government have the right to outlaw it at the federal level?
That's an issue of states rights.
Further, do the states have the right to leave the union?
Another question of federal power.
Certainly the Confederacy did form and break away to preserve the slavery system.
However the North did not then go to war with the Confederacy to remove their slaves; they went to war to stop the South from seceding.
>>63942997
>mcclellan you fucking shithead!
And then, after being a colossal fucking failure as a general, McClellan had the balls to run against Lincoln for President while the war was still going on. As a fucking Copperhead. What a prick.
