Was Rey's character in the new Star Wars a total Mary Sue? Or is this article right?
http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275
>/tv/ and based Landis start the Mary Sue meme
>the SJW media actually takes the bait and responds to it
I honestly wasn't expecting that.
>>63931687
Is Charlie Jane Anders confirmed 4chan?
>Literal media damage control
Goddamn that's hilarious
why do liberals try to stop people from having opinions they disagree with?
>>63931870
Because they are tyrants who gain power by promising to protect you from tyrants.
Daily reminder that Furiosa is best female protag of 2015.
>Stop hating what I like!
I don't care if that's clickbait or not, its hilarious.
>The thing about Rey, and characters like her, is that she subverts the actual awful trope that is ruining everything: the female character who is badass until the final act of the movie. Most films, with a character like Rey, would have her be ridiculously competent and brilliant until the final 20 or 30 minutes of the film, at which point she suddenly becomes useless and Finn has to solve everything. This is a trope that I have seen in approximately seven billion movies: the super-awesome woman who becomes suddenly less awesome as the male hero takes control of his power.
>So yes, Rey is a tad unrealistic. Not unlike everything else in this universe with a magic space elf and fantasy mind powers and spaceships that can jump across the galaxy at the push of a button. What she isn’t, is more unrealistic than most of the other characters.
>What the “Mary Sue” thing shows—other than that people will find any craptastic excuse to tear down female characters—is that memes have a decay rate. After a while, they wear out and you gotta find new ones. Fan culture is good at putting its finger on that one thing that’s bugging us at this one specific moment, but then absolutely terrible at generalizing and extrapolating, until you reach the heat death of criticism: total loss of information. This is a failure mode of fan culture, and it’s something to watch out for.
HOW DARE THE FANS BE ANNOYED BY THIS
>>63932042
Yes, because that "Mary Sue" meme is a fresh thing that will probably disappear as quickly as a 9gag image macro.
And because nobody ever complained about notorious male MAry Sues like Anakin or Eragon either.
>>63932114
They weren't "mary sues" at all.. Rey is a mary sue because she could do no wrong and was super powerful with no explanation. Learn the difference
>>63932827
Try to watch or read Eragon. It's not going to be pleasant, but it's a prime example of Marty Stu.
>character is orphan with unknown origins
>turns out to have super-duper power
>turns out to have super special origins no one knew about
>masters his powers with little to no training
>never loses
>is always right
>everyone who disagrees with him is wrong
>everyone who disagrees with him is punished for doing so
>everyone loves him, despite some often horrible behavior
>people who dislike him usually die
>>63932827
>with no explanation
... because its meant to be explained later?
>>63932042
>she's not a Mary Sue because I refuse to believe it!
>>63931687
>Critisize a female in any way shape or form
>Expect SJWs to not throw a wobbly
Really?
>>63933257
then it's shitty a movie, you can't just leave important bits of information out of a film and say "we'll fix it for next time"
>>63933257
Then whats the point? How can you even sit through a movie if its just BS circle jerk feminism nonsense. It literally comes across as a 15 year old girl SJW wet dream. I doubt the next film will fix it.
Rey was a really flat character.
>>63933955
Flat chested too
>>63931687
>max landis is the voice of reason as he blows SJWs the fuck out
>RLM loves star wars
am I in bizzaro world?
>>63931350
>I wrote about this on my Tumblr
Incoming use of the word "problematic" or "toxic."
>“Mary Sue” is one of those terms that had a useful meaning in fan culture at one point, long ago, and has now become both vague and toxic.
B A Z I N G A
>>63932827
literally everything about Rey is explained in the movie
there is no mary sue-ness
>>63935348
The movie doesn't explain shit, which is why there are so many fan theory and speculation threads.
>>63935401
just shows you're retarded
>>63935259
...is this idiot literally saying it's impossible to write an unrealistically perfect female action hero, and that this is somehow a development that happened only in recent years?
>>63935348
>literally everything about Rey is explained in the movie
It does not matter though.
Even if you write an all powerful character with no flaws and explain it properly (which this movie didnt even bother to) it still is a marry sue.
She fits ALL the criteria of a fanfiction marry sue.
>all the characters immediately like her
>she can not only fix the millenium falcon but fly it better than han did
>after han dies like a chump to the guy who refused to kill her because she mindfucks him with the force leya hugs HER and not chewie
literally shitty writing
>>63935435
>"there is no mary sue-ness"
>"you're retarded"
You must be too busy sucking JayJay's dick to make plausible arguments.
>>63935348
it's not explained how she can pilot the falcon, knows how to fix a BB8, knows how to fix the falcon, knows how to duel well with a lightsaber, knows what thing opens the doors for han at one point, etc.
It's not that big of an issue but it would be more compelling if she struggled more, she was too often the vehicle for a JJ abrams role reversal joke
>>63931936
George Miller has a sense of what makes any character, not just women, strong and relatable and endearing.
>Furiosa gets her ass kicked more than once during the movie, including receiving a life saving blood transfusion, because it makes sense that that would happen
>forges a working relationship with Max resulting in them both relying on the other to survive (she doesn't just carry a janitor for the entirety of the movie)
>actually has some depth and a reason to do what she's doing; redemption, guilt
>follows Max with his plan at the end because it's ok for women to do that sometimes
>>63935586
>and relatable and endearing.
Furiosa was neither
>>63933257
>it's a "this shit writing will be explained in the sequel" argument
>>63935348
Please go step by step and explain to me these points and how she got good at them in the context of the movie and using no fan speculation:
>good at flying a junk ship that has been modified a hundred times
>good at repairing said ship
>mind controls a human being after 3 attempts when it's been shown that's it's not an easy trick
>knows how to use a lightsaber instinctively and fight a very strong, albeit wounded, sith with years more training
>>63935348
Even if it was explained, which it wasn't, it's far more compelling for a character to have some flaws and face some real adversity.
>>63933257
If it can't stand on its own its shit. Even Harry fucking Potter in the very first chapter set up that there was something special about Harry even though no one had any idea what it was at the time. There is nothing in the movie that explains why Rey is so good at EVERYTHING she does, and saying "Well/probably/my theory/I think/etc" to try to cover up a complete lack of an appropriate foundation for why the character can do what she does just makes people look like they're covering up for the movies flaws.
>>63935348
>literally everything about Rey is explained in the movie
Explain then the shit that you think was explained, because I don't remember seeing it at all. And don't give me that "ITLL BE EXPLAINED IN THE NEXT MOVIE LOLZ" nonsense, cuz that's a dumb cop out.
>>63931687
>meme
is generally true though, you have to really grasp for straws to defend her poor characterization
>>63935348
Even if she wasn't a Mary Sue, she was a horrible, horrible character that was unrelatable in any way except maybe the early scene of her with the old helmet. After that, noone could relate and then sympathize with her. She was the equivalent of the New Republic exploding: no backstory, no explanation about who they were or their motivations outside of "I'm waiting for someone lol". Maybe she was supposed to be explained more in the next movie, but that doesn't mean we can't see a bit of her perceived backstory more. That's just a shitty movie in general
>>63932114
>no one complained about Anakin
People have always complained about him blowing up the trade federation ship in Ep I, and the general ease with which he mows down droids in II and III. His force use isnt really that bad because he was actually trained for several years between I and II
some good points in the article (btw I think this thread >>63928188 was started by some blogger or other) but I know for sure most people here won't give a fuck.
I think that what has happened here is that some of the people who are pissed off about John Boyega having a leading role found out they actualy kinda liked him and are looking for something else to type aboutsince his sin of being black was absolved.
There's obviously some fucking around going on with Rey's past. Think about it, why exactly was Kylo interested in her? He just heard her name mentioned and it piqued his interest. Is it hard to beleive them having some sort of force connection. And she kicked his ass with ease because she had grown up on a rough desert planet - it's established in the first act that she can handle herself in a fight. She probably has more experience fighting in REAL fights against people with hand weapons. Kylo was a powerful force user but a shitty swordsman.
From the article:
>(I’d also argue that—SPOILER ALERT!—Kylo Ren teaches Rey a lot about using the Force. Every time she gets better at using it in this film, it’s right after Kylo Ren has tried to use it against her. She sees what he’s doing, and copies it. I thought it was fairly explicit that Kylo Ren is Rey’s “teacher” in this movie.)
I think this is great supporter of the theory that Reyturns heel
>>63935853
At the same time, it might be hard to sympathize with her because she's a brand new character. Whereas Anakin already had 3 OT movies to build up his sense of character
>>63932042
>This is a trope that I have seen in approximately seven billion movies
>>63931350
>Luke touches a lightsaber for the first time about 45 minutes into A New Hope, and is using the Force pretty brilliantly by the end of the movie.
Luke at the end of ANH can do nothing but use the Force to tell him when to fire with his X-Wing.
Luke, at the beginning of ESB, years later, can barely use the Force to get his lightsaber from across the room.
Rey can do that by the end of the movie so well that she overpowers Ren's attempt to grab it as well.
>>63935921
I remember sympathizing a lot with Luke the first time I saw ANH. As the movie progressed you knew he was special in some way and that his perceived family wasn't his real one. There were way more hints about Luke's past in ANH than about Rey in TFA. It really pisses me off that they did the backstory so poorly that she comes off as a Mary Sue.
>>63935854
Exactly.
Not to mention that he literally has more midichlorians than blood cells.
>>63935800
This.
Seriously, there was like 3 to 5 different occasions in the movie where she casually figures out how to fix/improve/hotwire technology she had very little to no chance of seeing before.
She flies as good if not better than Han on what we have to assume is her first try, because a) she is surprised she can fly that well too, and b) if she's the kind of person who can navigate through a downed star destroyer's exhaust with the Millenium Freaking Falcon, there is no way she wouldn't be permanently hired as the pilot of whatever ship she had a crack at earlier.
Literally the only conflict in her entire story, is that she refuses to take charge and responsibility. She refuses to do the one thing that would make her an actually strong female character, like Leia who did everything possible to kick the Empire's ass and never backed down.
Literally the only reason Rey is even fighting the First Order is because she is given no other choice.
She decides that she won't do it, then she is kidnapped and it is made painfully obvious that they will keep coming for her.
She actually is one of the weakest female leading characters I can remember seeing in the past few years.
>>63936027
That's a good point
>>63936007
and Luke is a bit of a whimp in the beginning.
He gets almost killed by the Tusken Raiders.
>>63935904
>Think about it, why exactly was Kylo interested in her? He just heard her name mentioned and it piqued his interest.
What are you talking about? He picked her brain and found out she saw the map he was looking for and was strong in the Force. He then called off the search for BB-8 to interrogate what he thought was a more valuable catch.
"I wrote about this on my Tumblr"
of course you did
>>63931350
>tfw no Mask reboot with Daisy Ridley
>>63932042
I like how this says absolutely fucking nothing
Just because it subverts a "trope" doesn't mean that it's well written you hack, it's also subversive for a movie be blatantly racist
>>63935853
I think Daisy Ridley did well in the end with what she was given to work with.
She made the character as endearing as she realistically could. There are moments where Rey kind of has a wide eyed wonderment at the new worlds people around her. Those scenes are neat. Before she goes back to being space god.
>>63934829
Strange bedfellows anon, straaaange bedfellows
>>63932114
It's called a Gary Stu, when it's a guy.
Also what >>63935854 said. But hey, we were all young once, no worries if you don't remember. the past decade.
I liked the movie, I liked Rey and I'm glad we're getting a kickass girl Jedi. That said she is a Mary Sue at this point and that needs to be toned down a bit. Hell even Batman..BATMAN was less of a Mary Sue than Rey was in his own movies. I can't think of a single moment when she was in any major danger that she could not solve without sudden superpowers manifesting or unexplained skills better than people who've worked at it for decades. It got pretty crazy by the end.
>>63935904
If a movie character's backstory, regardless of how mysterious it was, is so bad and undeveloped that the character starts to enter the field of "Mary Sue" (which I take as meaning someone who is loved by everyone without fault and is good at everything, if there is another word for this I'll gladly use it), that movie is still shit
>>63932114
>Anakin
are you serious nigger, anakin has been shit on from the beginning
and even he somehow manages to be less of a mary sue because at least with anakin he loses, obi wan gets pissed at him constantly and the jedi council thinks he's dangerous, rey is instantly liked by everyone
>Eragon
which has also been shit on by anyone who isn't a high schooler
>>63935348
Some parts don't even need explanation, it can be conveyed through her emotions like the scene with the old rebel pilot helmet. Favourite character, honestly.
>>63931350
>http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275
>stop spreading this nonsense
alright hitler
Rey does gain control of the force faster than Luke did and with less training.
But then again she is up against Kylo Ren whose force powers seem stronger than what we've seen Vader or as Luke do and he's not even fully trained yet.
>>63936292
>But then again she is up against Kylo Ren whose force powers seem stronger than what we've seen Vader
To be fair I think that's more or less due to technical restrictions in the OT. We did see him choking and interrogating people with The Force though.
>I wrote about this on my Tumblr
>>63936152
>someone who is loved by everyone
but the First Order didn't like her, so no mary sue, so there
>>63936276
I want waifufags to leave.
>>63936102
I agree. I loved Daisy's acting. Her character was just written so lazily and you could tell she was trying to be as naive as possible. Hard to do that when you can literally mind control a stormtrooper as your first force act and then fight and defeat a wounded sith knight in your first ever lightsaber battle. I actually had no problem with any of the casting (except Leia was a dog turd, godamnit put some fucking feeling into it). Finn and Poe were really well done and by far the best pair in that movie
>>63936399
Yeah, they're pretty annoying.
>>63936377
Meant for>>63936206
JUST
>>63936420
Pretty much this. Her character was well-acted and could have been cool, but the story was so poorly put together and poorly developed that the opportunity was squandered.
So will they backtrack on her character and give her sudden vulnerability out of nowhere OR will she continue her upward trajectory and swap places with Kylo as the antagonist?
>>63936377
>implying that stormtrooper didn't just pity her and leave instead of her actually mindcontrolling him
>>63936075
And almost killed by the guys at the bar until Obi-Wan saves him.
And almost killed by the trash compacter monster until Han saves him.
And almost killed by a tie fighter until Wedge saves him.
And almost killed by Vader until Han saves him again.
>>63935740
IT PASSES THE BECHDEL TEST!
>>>/pol/58985678
Seriously anyone who takes that seriously should be beat senseless.
>>63936661
Han didn't save him from the monster, the compactor saved him from the monster
>>63936206
Do you think Poe Dameron's backstory was underdeveloped? Rey had about as much information about her backstory as we do about Luke's in ANH. It's pretty obviously gonna be fleshed out in the next movie. And that's not a bad thing. In the future, you'll be looking at this as a trilogy ad not just judging it as one film.
>>63935740
refresh my memory, did HP have any flaws in the first movie?
>>63931350
>What the “Mary Sue” thing shows... is that memes have a decay rate. After a while, they wear out and you gotta find new ones. Fan culture is good at putting its finger on that one thing that’s bugging us at this one specific moment, but then absolutely terrible at generalizing and extrapolating, until you reach the heat death of criticism: total loss of information.
100% on point tbqhwy
>>63936759
He couldn't play wizards chess. :(
>>63936739
>Do you think Poe Dameron's backstory was underdeveloped?
Poe Dameron's background was "hey guys I'm a really good pilot lol" so yes. Rey clearly isn't the only problem character in this movie.
On that note, the dialogue was extremely underdeveloped at times, as well.
>when men do it, it's considered 10/10 and great
Just admit that if a male character did all the shit Rey did in the movie you wouldn't think twice about it.
>>63936739
>Rey had about as much information about her backstory as we do about Luke's in ANH.
We learned that obi wan and luke's father fought together in the clone wars, we met his family that made him do moisture farmer chores because he grew up with them.
Luke was a relateable teenager that got pulled into something that was larger than his previous life, rey is a character only absolutely pretentions megalomanics could identify with.
>>63936701
Not him but R2 saved him from the compactor
>>63935697
she has a lot of midi-chlorians
>>63936892
>>63936878
Luke constantly fucked up in the original trilogy, that's why people liked him so much, THEY COULD RELATE. Nobody other than insane tumblerettes who think they are flawless can indentify with rey.
>>63936739
>In the future, you'll be looking at this as a trilogy ad not just judging it as one film
Bullshit excuse. A movie that can't stand up as a good movie in its own right isn't much of a movie to begin with. It's certainly not a good excuse for bad characterisation.
>>63936892
Lol...?
I'd say the same exact things. Its stupid to have a main character that literally has no flaws. She's smart, can fight, can fly the falcon, everyone likes her, has incredible force powers already, beats a sith lord at lightsaber combat the first time she ever picks up one e.t.c.
If Luke did everything that she did in ANH it would be the same argument against him. Stop bringing gender into this, its not about gender its about lazy writing. Fuck off.
>>63936759
Yeah. He's not that smart. He relies on Hermione and Ron a few times.
>>63936687
Since the reason it passes the test, is because Rey talks with a technically female alien about the force, I have to ask:
What would it have changed about the movie, if that random 1000 year old chick was a guy instead?
>>63937000
This is the fucking thing I've been trying to tell people saying "oh she'll be explained int he next movie". It doesn't matter. The fact that we get no hints in this movie means that the movie was shit
>>63937102
>This is the fucking thing I've been trying to tell people saying "oh she'll be explained int he next movie". It doesn't matter. The fact that we get no hints in this movie means that the movie was shit
This is because jew jew abrahams literally conditioned plebs to keep waiting for that big reveal with shit like lost.
Then LOST shat the bed with revealing that they were just making up shit as they went along and nobody wised up.
Then lindeloff writing prometheus happend.
>>63936892
Everyone hated Anakin taking out the trade federation.
People don't dislike the character because she's a woman BUT being a woman is a big part of the reason why she is the way she is.
>>63937102
D-don't worry guys, this overhyped turd will surely be redeemed in future movies! You'll be s-sorry!
>>63936739
Luke's father was a force user which gave him an innate power with the force. But his power was raw, unharnessed, and he didn't do anything force-like (except the torpedo run) until he trained and received training.
>>63936892
I was pretty fed up with super special characters with dark or mysterious backgrounds by the time I was 10 anon.
Wow that is horrid
>>63937410
Characters with destiny and plot armour are boring as fuck.
>>63937097
Mo' penises, mo' oppression.
>>63937066
>Whiny kid desperately clinging onto a dying art
>Sith Lord
Nah, The only reason he was in charge was because the First Order was so fucking broken and helpless.
>>63933192
Eragon is Luke. He gets his ass saved by Bronn a billion times. He wins in the fight against the shade but gets crippled horribly by the battle. Sapphira is constantly saving his ass because he's a weak human who is ok at magic. The issue with Mary sues isn't what they do or how powerful they seem to be. Its more about a character with no stakes because all the things that happen to them are resolved a few minutes later in whatever media they are in.
Is Rey the Kirito of Star Wars?
IF WE KEEP ARGUING WHETHER THE MAIN CHARACTER IS A MARY SUE, PEOPLE WILL GO SEE THE MOVIE MORE TO CONFIRM THEIR BIASED OPINIONS.
I think I know who's behind this.
>implying Luke got much training at all to use the force
There was just a few scenes of Obi wan giving him guidance, telling him to rely on his instincts rather than his eyes, and then spending a week or so with yoda, where he learns to focus more and do more complex tasks with the force, it's not like he went through some daily routine for months on end before he was capable of doing anything with it
>>63937551
Broken and helpless with their advanced and improved super weapon?
The article is both logically and factually wrong many times.
>>63937649
Nah, Kirito is Mary Sue times 1000.
If Rey is a mary sue then so is Lukeoh wait he is a mary sue
>>63932042
>craptastic
excellent journalism there.
>>63931870
This is infuriating. They don't simply say "you're wrong and here's why" they literally say you can't have an opinion.
>>63937880
>dat cameltoe
>>63931870
>why do liberals try to stop people from having opinions they disagree with?
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views"- Albert Einstein
>>63931870
Having the opposite opinion isn't trying to silence your opinion dude. It's called having a debate, no need to turn this into some fucking persecution complex you triggered faggot.
>>63937880
From their first respective movies
>Luke
Got rekt by the tusken raiders, needed Obi Wan to save him
Nearly got killed by the men in the cantina, need Obi Wan to save him
Needed Leia and Han to cover his ass constantly during the rescue mission, which ended up being a clusterfuck
Screwed up deflecting blaster bolts while Obi Wan was training him, never actually does that until 2 movies later
Rarely uses his lightsaber at all
Initially annoyed Han and Leia with his naivete and innocence
Needed R2 to save him from being crushed by the trash compactor
Needs Obi Wan to protect him from Vader
Needs Han to save him during the trench run from Vader
Pilots competently, doesn't do anything the other rebel pilots can't do (except aim the torpedo)
Uses the force once
>Rey
Beats up four guys by herself
Skilled marksman
Skilled mechanic
Knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han and Chewie, who piloted and repaired it for years
Can pilot the Millennium Falcon by herself competently enough to outmaneuver two TIE fighters, even though it requires two pilots
Gets kidnapped once, saves herself
Is better at using the Force than Kylo, who trained under Luke for years
Is instantly knowledgeable about probing minds, telekinesis, and using Jedi mindtricks
Instantly skilled at using a lightsaber
Has super saiyan jedi mode, which no other jedi has ever used in the movies
May have possibly learned all of this at the ripe young age of 4, depending on her backstory
Instantly liked by everyone
Instantly trusted by the Resistance to go on a mission to find Luke, even though they barely knew her
>>63931687
She is a complete and utter mary sue though, everyone is convinced she is literally Revan to justify her insane feats. Pilots the falcon like a pro, fixes it better than han, shoots better than stormtroopers, completely BTFOs an adept in the force without any prior training. Btw JJ would have you believe she was scrounging for food and barely getting by for her entire life, but when someone randomly attacked her she instantly kicked both of their asses while yelling "STOP HOLDING MY HAND *GRIN*"
>I wrote this on my tumblr
Stopped reading.
>>63931350
>i09 running damage control
It's 100% accurate and this desperate shilling just confirms it.
>>63938407
I never understood why she just didn't jedi mind trick that guy for more portions.
>>63938526
That was the 5 minutes before she learned the force existed, she wasn't jedi mind tricking before 2 minutes after learning that the force was a real thing, she is totally in line with the other jedi we've seen in universe
>>63935573
>>63935573
>pilot the falcon,
The force. Luke did the same godamn thing in IV with the x-wing and you all love that so much
>knows how to fix a BB8
She spent her whole life scavenging abandended tech it makes sense that she would be good with droids
>knows how to fix the falcon
See above
>knows how to duel well with a lightsaber
Her planet was clearly a rough place and all she ever had to defend herself was a stick. Plus her duel was against Darth Angst, a trainee Sith conflicted about his position in life and suffering from a blaster shot to the gut
>knows what thing opens the door for Han
Again; scavenger.
>>63931350
I think the author realized that she is a Mary Sue half way through and started movie the goalposts in order to make publishing the article worthwhile
>But movies like the Kingsmen did it! That's just how movies are these days
>>63933369
>>63935656
>WTF WHY DONT THEY EXPLAIN WHY VADER TURNED TO THE DARK SIDE???????
>>63938678
"Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim territories" - Biggs.
He was established as being able to fly (of course he didn't know shit about flying a freighter like the Falcon, which was also shown).
Luke just used the force to hit the target. The computers weren't able to do that (if I recall from Wedge's line, they kept picking up the tower near it).
>>63938265
lel m8 tried copy pasting ur reply to the io9 site, instantly deleted kek
>>63931350
She's not REALLY a Mary Sue as that usually denotes some authorial self insert.
She's just a really shitty character.
Anyway, that article is a parody right?
>New Star Wars is flawless
>Toxic culture
>"My tumblr"
Damn son, even Creed's nigger protagonist is better written. It's a better sequel and standalone too.
>>63938875
>she's a really shitty character because she knocked some guy on his ass and is good with the force for some reason we don't know yet
>>63938822
10 year old Anakin blew up a Droid control ship, so I think flying skills are an overrated thing to give weight to
>>63938822
Right but it's already established she has an intimate knowledge of all things spaceships, and once you got knowledge down the only thing needed to be a good pilot is the reflexes usually honed by hours of experience, but essentially the base level of powerful force sensitives.
>>63938726
>Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force
-Obi Wan, A New Hope
Even when Vader is expanded upon in Empire, it's never to clarify or qualify his feats in ANH, it's just progression.
>>63938906
She's a shitty character because she's a non entity who is unrealistically good at everything.
>we don't know yet
This is a movie. Not TV.
Even the comic relief gets a decent arc in this.
She's as boring and bland as James Bond prior to his contemporary do-over.
>>63931350
>>Luke touches a lightsaber for the first time about 45 minutes into A New Hope, and is using the Force pretty brilliantly by the end of the movie.
Everyone who works for Gawker should literally be skinned alive
>>63938906
>good with the force
literally the strongest force user we've seen to date considering her nonexistent training
>>63931350
It must be true because the SJW could ignore the nonsense if it wasn't so obvious in the movie that she's better than everyone else
>>63938107
"You a lyin ass nigga, I neva said that"
-Albert Einstein
>>63939022
Your argument is getting vaguer than it was before so I think you lost bro
>>63939081
There's nothing vague about it.
Her character on the other hand...
>>63939080
It was actually William F Buckley Jr., but no one on /tv/ knows who that is
>>63939139
I just saw him on a Netflix doco.
He was gay. For sure.
>>63938906
She's a boring character because she's great at everything. That's boring. How do you not get that?
>>63939124
No, it's vague, because your second post literally is vaguer than your first, whose points were really quickly refuted|
Your accusation that a character is vague is even vaguer
You ran out of points lol
>>63935697
A. She complains that the owner modified it in a way she didn't approve of. This indicates that she was familiar with the millennium falcon before having to pilot it to escape. She's a capable pilot, but is not shown to be any better than Han or Luke.
B. she knew Rens deepest fear after he probed her mind. Probably some Harry potter parsle tongue shit.
C. She fights the way she was shown to fight with her staff. Ren was seriously wounded and bleeding out, and had just killed [redacted], and his character is already shown to be emotionally unstable. Ren can't even form a smooth light saber, and is all bluster. How do we know he was that great to begin with? His literal fear is inadequacy.
Not saying her character isn't pretty flat, but her abilities are pretty well explained within the movie.
>>63931350
hey guys JJ Abrams just wrote a 100% original copypasta sponsored by disney
What the toy story truck did you just toy story trucking say about me, you little Elsa? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Monster's Inc, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on originality, and I have over 300 confirmed shills. I am trained in jewnomics and I’m the top shekel earner in the entire US movie business. You are nothing to me but just another customer. I will wipe creative thought the toy story truck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my toy story trucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shara to me over the Internet? Think again, goyim. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of jews across the ocean and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the sequel storm, you little תולעת. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call great storytelling. It's toy story trucking dead, kid. I can say anything, anytime, and I can kill Han Solo in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have never even been in a real fight and learned watching what other people did in movies and copied it frame for frame. And I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable white privilege off the face of the continent, you little chara. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price $15 ticket plus food, you goddamn idiot. I will shrek fury all over the movies you love, and you will drown in it. You’re toy story trucking dead, kiddo. and so is han solo
>>63938198
It LITERALLY says "Stop thinking differently to me".
>>63939203
You didn't refute anything. Or even mention anything about the content of the post though?
Are you cross posting from another thread and getting confused or something?
>>63935573
Yeah, this is how I feel. I liked Rey as a character, mostly. But she'd have been better without the being great at everything straight away.
One of the replies to that article says something like 'but Rey is clearly smarter than Luke', and they're backing the argument that Rey ISN'T better in every way, just because.
>>63939201
She's not great at everything. This is supported by the text.
She can outfly stormtroopers, supported by the text of literally all of Star Wars that they're bad shots and never kill a main character
She beats a seriously injured Kylo Ren in a brief Lightsaber duel, because she's not at all bad with a staff and Kylo Ren hasn't been trained for shit
If either of these things bother you, it's because you haven't understood the text of the film
So what can actually be done?
>leave Rey as she is for the sequel, and people continue to criticize her for being a Mary Sue
>Change her in the sequel and the filmmakers are criticized for being apologists and SJW's lose their shit
Kinda a lose-lose for Disney
>>63938962
It's established that she can pick valuable pieces off of old Star Destroyers. I don't think we've seen her build anything. She's certainly not saving pieces for herself either.
Just because a methhead can strip the copper wiring out of a house, it doesn't mean he knows how to wire one.
Hell, it would have been better if it was some trashed Imperial ship (maybe a shuttle or something) that they used to escape. I could buy her knowing a lot about one of those.
>>63939243
Trying too hard/10
>>63938959
>Using the PT to try and prove your point.
>>63939276
It's just the typical he has no argument so he'll pretend he won anyway. the he is doing to you by pretending what said was vague.
Don't mind me lads, just patting myself on the back for this post.
>Friendly reminder that Kennedy and Abrams will be so determined not to be accused of creating a "weak" or "outdated" female character that Rey will be without any weaknesses or shortcomings. She'll quip her way from strart to finish, defeating every man in her path with all of the emotion of a robot. Kennedy and Abrams will not understand that a character's bravery and admiribality comes from their vulnerability. They will not understand that a character arc is completely unsatisfying if said character was already an invulnerable mary sue to begin with.
Wrong about her emotional side, but other than that pretty good.
>>63939341
She is easily going to get changed in the sequel, because they are going to delve into her past and explain why she is good with a saber/the force.
How retarded are you not to understand this?
>>63937991
but that article was basically a "you're wrong and here's why"
>>63939418
So what you're saying is this movie can not stand on its own and needs another movie to explain what is happening in it.
>>63931350
SOMEBODY STOP HER! SHE'S SMOOKIN!
>>63935853
It would be like not getting the stuff that Obi-Wan tells Luke in IV, and Luke fighting Vader rather than flying the X-Wing. And yes, Vader hadn't just been hit by a bowcaster, but it seems like people would be saying 'well, some of those Imperial dudes thought Vader wasn't very powerful anyway'.
>>63939364
Did you fucking miss the part where she's making repairs to the Falcon better than Han?
>>63936878
>I didn't understand Dune even slightly: the post
Dune is a tragedy. Read the sequel novel if you need the how and why spelled out to you.
>>63939465
She had parents who are force sensitive. That is explained in Episode 7.
She is good with a staff and can hold her own with a weapon in a fight. This is illustrated in Episode 7.
I don't get how you miss these pretty obvious details
>>63939027
yeah, I stopped reading there
I bet this person was one of those faggots that thought Kylo was Luke at first as well
>>63939027
Goes to show that all those self proclaimed geek girls are just crazy cat ladies with dyed hair that never gave a shit about the things they pretend to like
>>63931350
>Over time, the term “Mary Sue” has broadened until it means “any female character who is unrealistically talented or skilled.”
That may be true, but the heart of the criticism has nothing to do with Rey being a female. The character is written to be hyper-competent, extremely likable, and with nary a flaw. It's a poorly-written character regardless of sex. But because she's a female, her defenders get up in arms about her.
Imagine if the roles of Rey and Finn were reversed. Could you imagine the shitstorm that would ensue?
>>63939521
>read the sequel
ahahahhahahahahahhhahaahahah reading any book after the first oh my god lmfao
>>63937000
>>63937102
It's like you seriously don't understand the concept of a series. This is literally as stupid as complaining that Empire Strikes Back left plot threads unresolved.
>Is Vader telling the truth? Why did Obi-Wan lie about Luke's dad?
>DON'T TELL ME IT'LL BE EXPLAINED IN THE NEXT MOVIE, IT HAS TO BE EXPLAINED IN THIS ONE OR THE MOVIE IS SHIT
>>63935904
When Kylo says 'So you're the girl I've been hearing so much about' it seems very much like that's all there is to it - he's had the report that some girl helped get the droid away from the Order.
I know what the real problem with Rey is. It's that her character comes off like someone who watched the Original Trilogy. All of her powers are coming from her ability to recall scenes she saw in the original movies.
>>63939559
>The character is written to be hyper-competent, extremely likable, and with nary a flaw.
So Luke
>>63931350
>io9.gizmodo
Answered your own question.
>>63939314
Do you mean context?
>>63939465
>the entirety of a movie depends on a durr hurr explanation for a factor in the final duel of the movie that is a culmination of an ongoing theme of accepting your destiny that is aped from ANH
I bet you would've preferred Luke appearing, or him saying "Use the force, Rey!!"
>>63939648
No.
>>63936007
>Luke at the end of ANH can do nothing but use the Force to tell him when to fire with his X-Wing.
He even has to have Obi-Wan's ghost giving him tips on how to use the force to fire the shot. Claiming Luke is well on his way to mastering the force at this point is clutching at straws.
>>63939630
Luke would've been killed by the tusken raider if it wasn't for obi-won, where do you get the idea that he is super competent?
>>63939649
Well its better than her just learning about the force by osmosis.
I bet Rey can beat One Punch Man.
>>63939630
I think you should watch ANH again and come back when you're done.
>>63939574
>I'm too stupid to appreciate the full scope and majesty of Frank Herbert's Dune novels
>Implying being too fucking dumb to read and understand things somehow validates your points
>>63939694
and she would have been blown up at the station if Finn didn't drag her out of the tent. Don't even try pal
>>63939630
Luke is whiny bitch, who wants to leave home but won't when actually confronted with the opportunity (it isn't until circumstance forces him to leave that he actually does).
will this movie even be remembered 10 years from now?
even the prequels were memorable
>>63939716
Please find someone serious who thinks any book after the first is worth reading and I'll reconsider
>>63939478
she looks so bad with her hair down and no makeup
>>63939696
No, actually, remembering her past is better than anything with Luke.
Do you remember when Kylo talks about an island? Or the fact that Kylo knows her, at all?
>>63939774
And Rey is a lazy coward who wants nothing to do with picking up her destiny, and instead wants to sit at home and wait for daddy instead of being proactive.
>>63931350
>"I wrote about this on my Tumblr"
>Gawker
Fucking trash she goes.
>>63939393
why are you so stupid?
>>63939779
It'll be hard to forget with a new sequel coming out every few years until the end of time.
>>63939774
Rey wants to stay in the middle of the fucking desert waiting for parents who aren't gonna come home, until circumstance forces her to leave.
What a terrible thread this is, full of people who don't know what Mary Sue means self-insertion characters, not competent female characters.
>>63937853
at least kirito has experience playing games, he even played the beta of SwordArtOnline
Can't say the same for Rey :)
>>63939734
...except Luke would've needed help to get away from those two thugs(similar to how Luke needed help with those two thugs at the bar) and Luke needed help getting the droids into the base, and he completely mucked up the escape, and he would've never survived the death star if it wasn't for Han
>>63935853
>waiting for someone
>no explanation
While I am not disagreeing on overall Mary Sue shit, that was kinda settled with that whole Maz scene.
Not a Mary Sue, I just need a reason for her to be so good at everything. Though with Star Wars I'm sure the reason will only go as far as "Force did it".
>>63931350
The article is right, you know
>>63936878
can't wait for the jj abrams reboot of this drab franchise
>>63937410
Yep. This is why the whole thing of the chosen one prophecy should never have happened in the PT.
A marry sue is a overpowered character without flaws that is written into an existing lore and all the old characters immediately like her and acknowlege her as equal or superior despite knowing her for a very short ammount of time and contrary to some of their character traits.
Luke is a flawed and vulnerable protagonist and even if he wasnt he would be definition not be a mary sue.
>>63932114
>Eragon
nigga are you from 2005
>>63931350
>But in any case, this is a convention of these sorts of movies. Kingsman also has a protagonist who is useless at the start of the movie and is an invincible badass by the end of the film. Most superheroes have a freakishly steep learning curve, even if they don’t have any powers.
JJ WARS = CAPESHIT CONFIRMED
>>63939931
These differences are the effort to not always put female characters "In distress" and in need of male rescue. Rey escaped her cell on Starkiller Base but she couldn't have gotten any further if her pals weren't there to complete a mission. Rey's able to fend for herself. If this is the characteristic that you guys have such trouble wrapping your head around, hell, the movie's just not for you.
>>63939953
She's good with the machinery stuff because Jakku.
She's decent at flying, she's done it before. Not great. She dragged the Falcon through the dirt.
She's decent at combat because Jakku. Not great. Only the Force bailed her ass at the end.
She's good at using the force for a reason that is heavily implied to be early force training. Not outright confirmed, but everything from Kylo knowing her, to the flashbacks, to the lightsaber voices, everything implies it.
>>63931350
The article repeatedly glosses over and handwaves the existing responses to its dumb arguments
>>63939794
>appeal to authority
fuck off leddit
>>63931350
Until it's revealed in the next film that she was a former disciple of Luke or the daughter of Han or somethin', yeah, she's definitely a Mary Sue.
But I don't care.
>>63940110
So you also secretly think they're awful? Gotcha, I'll skip them then.
>>63939578
Empire is the second one in the series. None of those unanswered questions at the end of Empire are needed to qualify Luke's abilities. We know who he is since the start of ANH when he meets Obi Wan.
None of that matters anyway, because even if Rey is literal space god, and that's used to explain her greatness, it doesn't change the fact that characters like that are boring. They are unrelatable.
There is tension surrounding Neo in the Matrix when he confronts Smith at the end. We FEAR for him. We've seen his WEAKNESSES and SHORTCOMINGS up to that point. We know that he's not perfect and up against REAL DANGER which makes for great dynamics.
When Neo fights 300 Smiths in Matrix Reloaded there's no tension. We're not as INVESTED because he's not in real danger because he's god.
I think she is the product of incest and that is why they(luke and Leah) dumped her in the desert.
Why is 99% of media propaganda now you ask?
Post-modern elites (aka cultural marxists and their "useful idiots" the SJWs) have an agenda that isn't simply to mix races or eliminate a race. Their point is to disrupt social cohesion and any form of hierarchical or traditional social structure that could supersede government's authority. Whether it be marriage, the nuclear family, religion, cultural identity (usually identified by race or nationality), etc. any that can compete or overrule the state and pulls away control of the people, must be destroyed to further grow its power and influence. There are different methods of doing this but takes a lot of time to study and explain the impact of several race/class based policies. If you ever watch Thomas Sowell you'll know he explains some of it.
Yes, different races /could/ get along together in a society but that is not what we see. Why is that? Well, aside from racial determinism, we see special interest groups promoting the idea of victimized or disenfranchised minorities. A natural growth between different groups are impeded and instead forced artificial interaction disrupts the norm. This is generally done for political advantages and a moral high-ground. This causes enmity between races or classes while providing a platform for these manipulators, through the old rhetoric of egalitarianism, to create programs that benefit themselves in the guise of "doing good" for the minority or downtrodden.
While, some people are indeed well meaning most of them aren't able to either recognize or cope with the fact that the ideas they push for are unsuccessful and even destructive (welfare, minimum wage, affirmative action etc.). Furthermore these people are continuously fed more rhetoric by the "elite" groups (businesspersons e.g. bankers, cartels, politicians and community leaders e.g. Jesse Jackson, BLM, Green Party) to continue pushing for these policies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggFao85vTs
>>63940042
>gets BTFO
>n-n-nooo....you....
okay champ
>>63936759
no, he was like an oiled gazelle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPVhmZodaLA
>>63940166
This one actually makes the most sense.
>>63939081
>>63939203
>>63939314
>>63939408
hahaha get a load of these faggots
>>63940154
I was thinking about this, if Neo was written like Rey, he would've
>immediately made the jump
>beaten morpheus
>sacrificed himself and gotten captured instead of morpheus
>easily escaped at the end
>easily beaten Mr.Smith at the end
>force himself out of the matrix and stop cypher just in time
She's not a Mary Sue, she's an author's agenda driven insert rather than autho'sr self insert.
"Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks"
- Mahatma Ghandi
>>63939455
The article claims Luke was using the force brilliantly in ANH. It's wrong.
>>63940341
>blowing up the death star on your first try
o.k. my dude
>>63939418
and risk the fat fingered white knight backlash bloggers like the one from OP would scream at them over and over again through social media?
>>63934198
Savage
>>63939630
Fuck off.
Rey's flaw is that she is desperate as fuck. She was content to sit on a shit planet until the end of time waiting for someone to come for her. She knew Han for all of an hour and already thought of him as "the father she never had". That emotional weakness and need for acceptance combined with her natural power makes her a prime candidate for the dark side.
>>63940389
There is no way they WON'T delve into her past.
>>63939936
In my own personal opinion, I don't think that flashback really qualified as an explanation
Her hypercompetence never really felt obtrusive to me until she literally FORCED her way out to victory. It's like tolerating a mechanic or blacksmith character for having STR or combat skills, but the moment she casted some high level spell was too much.
>>63940088
Yeah. It gives the definition of a Mary Sue, explains how Rey fits that definition perfectly, and then says she's not one because it's a sci fi movie and therefore nothing about it should be realistic in the slightest.
>>63939531
"she has force sensitive parents"
Literally what line of dialogue or scene mentioned this
>>63935586
just a reminder that Pitch Perfect 2, about glee club girls, whooped the ass of your movie about lesbianism
also, fuck off with your shitty car chase movie
>>63940275
Exactly. This is why Rey's mystical past that may or may not be qualified in the sequel is irrelevant to her being a Mary Sue.
It's doesn't matter WHY. The point is she's great at everything and everyone loves her and that's BORING.
>>63940520
I didn't read it because I'm not giving click points to io9, but that's seriously fucking stupid and disrespects all sci fi and its fans.
>>63940363
>It was the third attempt after Gold Squadron was decimated on their approach to the target and Red Leader missed the shot.
>Luke lost his friend and wingman and Wedge had to bail.
The targeting computer wasn't going to be able to make the shot. Luke just had to focus on the target, pull the trigger and leave it up to the Force.
>>63940363
Fuck your ignorance of everything that contributes to that moment, apologist.
Rey is Sheev's daughter that was created through manipulation of the Force.
After Luke defeated Sheev and the Empire fell, Luke turned her into his apprentice and together they created a Jedi Academy.
However she was tempted by the Dark Side through Darth Bane's big ghost and became Darth Revan. Together with Kylo Ren, they killed every Jedi apprentice in Luke's academy, but at the last second Luke captured her, mindwiped her and droped her white independent wimmyn ass on Jakku.
The sequels will make all of this clear, you misogynists shitlords.She's a poorly written Mary Sue you fucking retards.
>>63940363
Luke was going to use his targeting computer to make the shot until Obi-Wan told him to trust his feelings and use the Force.
Rey was able to read Kylo's mind, use mind tricks to escape capture, and competently use a lightsaber with no training or guidance whatsoever. It was as if the Force was able to speak with her and tell her how to pull off these feats.
If you can't see the difference, that's on you.
>>63940751
Maybe Obi-Wan told her she could do those things?
>>63939341
killing her off is the only logical thing to do
>>63931350
>Luke touches a lightsaber for the first time about 45 minutes into A New Hope, and is using the Force pretty brilliantly by the end of the movie.
>beings this fucking sjwcuckstupid
>>63940436
yeah, but they aren't going to change her, she is going to be flawless the entire time. probably like the best little girl ever and something tragic happened to her but she remained a demigod and has to fight the darkside itself or something. fuck jj abrams and his inability to tell a story other than the mystery being the story itself.
>>63940792
If that was the case, you would think that the movie would give some indication that Rey is hearing someone speak to her. She doesn't look freaked out in the slightest if a ghost was teaching her about the Force.
Did I miss something relating to how 'Kylo clearly knows Rey'?
He rages when told a girl helped get BB8 away...because he's missed the chance to get BB8, and the info he was looking for.
When he meets her, he doesn't say anything remotely like 'Oh, it's you'.
During their fight, his dialogue isn't ever about her past. Is it? Or is that what I missed?
Who are the people arguing that she's not a very obvious Mary Sue, and why are they arguing this point?
>>63935348
0/10 b8
>>63940909
It's not explicit but his and snokes reaction whenever they said "the girl" seemed to imply that they knew who she was.
>>63940909
No, it's just more headcanon along with Rey being Luke's daughter as well as being mind-wiped and left on Jakku.
>B-but the movie strongly hints that...
No. the movie leaves everything open because it's completely clueless as to where to take the franchise, and would rather a blank canvas on which to work than be stuck with a bad idea.
>>63940792
>>63940900
Falling for moar shitty b8 m8
>>63941121
>No. the movie leaves everything open because it's completely clueless as to where to take the franchise, and would rather a blank canvas on which to work than be stuck with a bad idea.
I think they did know who she was but considering JJ's track record I wouldn't be surprised if the people writing it don't.
>>63940180
this, 2bh family
>>63940180
>cultural marxism
this term doesn't make any sense and just serves as a red flag for idiot spotting.
>>63941097
I expect that's to do with them sensing the 'awakening' as well though, right? So to me, they didn't know her, but they do now (and I am expecting her parentage / mysterious past is connected to Luke's academy, and probably to Kylo destroying it).
>>63939630
SJW tumblr tard band wagon hopper identified.
>Rey is quick and easy Force ability
>quick and easy is the path to the Dark Side
>Rey should be a Sith and die in part 9
>>63940180
>>63941324
it seems to trigger you
wonder why?
>>63940363
This is why no one likes SJWs.
You can't even be bothered watching the films you pretend to be fans of.
So lazy.
>>63941592
It's just trolling. It's like atheists make the best trolls against atheism because they understand what annoys them.
Why can't she just be good in one or two things instead of being the handyman for almost every plot point?
>>63940057
>She's good with the machinery stuff because Jakku.
"Machinery stuff" sound like a lot of bullshit to me. There is a huge difference between how a robot works, how to crack open a door and how a spaceship works. Also, all she did was collect scraps from wracks, which implies zero knowledge about construction or functionality.
>She's decent at flying, she's done it before. Not great. She dragged the Falcon through the dirt.
And easily outmaneuvered 2 professionally trained fighter pilots
>She's decent at combat because Jakku. Not great. Only the Force bailed her ass at the end.
She picks up a blaster for the first time in her life and easily kills dozens of storm troopers with no issue.
>>63939056
And Naruto in the Naruto series wasn't?
