>Death Star 1 and 2 took the full power of the Empire to build, nearly 30 years before it became operational
>First Order make Star Killer Base which is like ten times biggerer despite being weaker than the empire
>Still has the same glaringly obvious security flaws that a few guys can literally just walk in and blow it up
I'm not the only one who thought this shit was dumb as fuck, right?
>>63902621
It sucked up a star, no one cares about logic op
>>63902621
The Death Star 2 was functional (far from done) in less time than the 1st, but they no doubt hired outside the empire and rushed the hell out of the turbo laser
Still, your point stands
and at no point during it's construction did the Republic think "we should do something about that planet with a moon sized cannon being built by stormtroopers."
>>63902621
Technically death stars 1 and 2 both had exposed reactors that could basically be destroyed at any time. The "thermal ocillator" was fairly heavily armored and Starkiller only risked implosion when the weapon was charged.
>>63902621
This is a testament to the laziness and lack of creativity that went into it.
>>63902621
It's best to not think about the plot of the new star wars movie and it was average at best.
>average acting
>terrible plot
>average dialogue
>good effects
How the fuck does this have a 95% on RT with an average of 8.3/10?
>>63902828
Paid nostalgiadrones.
>>63902770
That annoyed me as well. There was an actual republic now with their own army and intelligence agencies, yet they were completely oblivious to a planet sized weapon being built.
>>63902621
What makes you think the First Order built it alone? I guarantee it was a project started by sheeve while he was still in charge.
I still don't understand the whole Order / Resistance crap. Is the Order stronger now? Was there a point where the rebels were ruling as the republic again? I don't get it, the power struggle seemed exactly like in empire.
Starkiller is cheaper and faster to be honest
>Take a planet with a star nearby
>Build a weapon in it
>The weapon sucks the star
>The star gets btfo because of many uses
>Move to another planet with its own star
>Do the same
>>63902970
I always liked the idea that the deathstar in ROTJ was the original prototype, a proof of concept that was deactivated when a smaller, sleeker design was drafted. Then when that was destroyed, the prototype was reactivated and hastily retrofitted.
>presses button
>mwahahah the republic is no more
>>63902910
>>63902770
What's worse is that they didn't send any reinforcements after six planets blew up.
>"The fleet will never get here in time."
Ok, how slow is FTL travel in this universe and how far away were the rest of your forces? Why did the Republic even bother setting up a resistance cell anyway? What was preventing them from occupying the system and fighting the 1st order directly?
>>63903016
>JJ puts all the relevant details in a comic because he can't write or balance action with exposition.
While I like that it means the characters won't be explaining things to each other that they should already know, it still feels lazy.
They only way to get past the shield was to pass through it in hyperspace...they probably assumed no one was crazy/stupid enough to try.
>>63903038
>what is "A New Hope"
>>63902970
>Rebels btfo of the remaining empire
>Rebels form the new republic and the majority of the galaxy follows them
>The first order is born out of the remnants of the empire
>Seen as a small threat by the new republic
>New republic and Leia form the resistance to reiterate against the first order instead of using the new republic's army for some reason
>First order and resistance wage war against each other while the new republic just funds the resistance
>First order pulls a super weapon out of their ass and destroy the new republic's army who all seem to be gathered in one fucking system
Shit's retarded.
>>63903118
its probably a known flaw with the shielding, but isn't an issue in any application other than shielding an entire planet due to the margins of error being too small for any ship to pull it off.
>>63903006
>Eventually the whole universe is Hoth.
>>63902828
>How the fuck does this have a 95% on RT with an average of 8.3/10?
Disney has deep pockets.
>>63903061
Aye, the movie makes it seem like the Republic still is seeking a diplomatic solution while secretly funding a rebel group, which begs the question why not declare war on the First Order since they were obviously way past the point of diplomacy.
>>63903087
most of that should've been in the title crawl instead of all that trash about luke
>>63903118
But I mean... you could just attach a hyperdrive to a giant asteroid or something right. :/
>>63903201
The title crawl would've been 10 times longer, yo.
![4v5kyBM[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b5WG32E.jpg "4v5kyBM[1].jpg")
>>63903006
speaking of though, how can a planet so close to a star be covered in snow??
>>63903140
They blew up Alderaan for shits and giggle, m8.
>>63903226
Because the star had been drained steadily during the construction?
>>63903087
Well that's what the opening crawl was for.
>>63903006
tf when you thought all along that they just built it so big that trees started growing on it
So they extracted all the action from the original Star Wars, without changing it at all?
>>63903226
How can so many habitable planets have only one biome?
>>63903206
If star wars gave a single damn about relativity, that would basically be the only superweapon anyone would ever need.
>slam rock into planet at light speed
>planet gone
Of course, since george lucas is autistic, he probably doesn't realize that light isn't instant and likely knows barely anything about relativity.
>>63903006
> cheaper
> to drill out a larger chunk of a planet that the death star
> and retrofit its very core
Thats not how that works
>>63903272
The most likely showed the entire film to test audiences, without the crawl, then had them list the things that confused them the most, then tailored the crawl around that.
As JJ loves him some goddamn test marketing. He'd test market when to take a shit and follow the results religiously.
>>63903313
the entire thing is literally covered in snow
>>63903313
Terraforming?
>>63902621
To be fair the only way they got inside the starkiller was because han solo is insane and did a light speed jump that stopped a few hundred meters from the surface
>>63902681
>It sucked up a star,
The in-universe physics/magic allows that to happen. Has little to do with logic
On the other hand, in no universe, on any timeline is leaving an obvious weakness completely exposed a wise, logical decision. I'm assuming everyone with autism in this universe was executed, because I can't imagine that the engineer that drafted this, and spent the equivalent of trillions of dollars thought that shit was a good idea.
And 2, why does some random asshat sanitation worker know so much about this? Look Boyega may have been one of the best actors in the film, but the last half of his script was terrible. It would be like some random janitor in the marines knowing where the nuclear bombs are stored.
I'm trying to enjoy to just accept this, but its hard when the villains seems like incompetent children.
>>63902910
They disarmed the Republic because of muh peace
>>63903313
They all have the same atmosphere too.
In empire luke is just chilling out above a gas goddamn giant and the atmosphere is apparantly 20% oxygen and nitrogen.
>>63903432
>I'm assuming everyone with autism in this universe was executed
Except for Kylo
>>63903451
>there are no EVA suits visible anywhere on the millennium falcon
._.
>>63902621
They just scaled up their existing super weapon destroying manufacturing evilization assembly line.
>>63902621
Seeing as it has a 95% on Rotten Tomatoes, yes, you are.
you'd think after 30 years of getting their asses kicked the empire would proved armor for their stormtroopers that can withstand a single shot from a laser before they die.
maybe design it so it will take two shots?
>>63903644
>maybe design it so it will take two shots?
maybe fuck off?
>>63903685
rebel scum detected
>>63903432
>The in-universe physics/magic allows that to happen. Has little to do with logic
We didn't everyone freeze to death? What happens to the gravitational forces of the star and direction of the other planets, once it's sucked up?
>>63903685
why are star wars fanboys so defensive over tiny shit like this?
do you have to defend every aspect of something because you like it?
Is the Starkiller in the books? I thought they just hollowed out a planet and built in an engine and energy centrifuge.
Why does it have trees and an outer atmosphere?
>>63902621
If you expect new Star Wars movies to attend to any sort of technical or social continuity, or rationale below the surface-level plot, you're going to be disappointed.
The movie franchise is being treated as a stage play. It's designed for normies, not for you.
>EXT NIGHT - 334 -ABOVE THE STARKILLER BASE • Starkiller Base needs a total remodel[/spoiler/]
http://millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9790
>>63903644
>you'd think after 50 years of getting their asses kicked America would provide armor for their soldiers that can withstand a single shot from an assault rifle before they die.
>>63903432
>And 2, why does some random asshat sanitation worker know so much about this? It would be like some random janitor in the marines knowing where the nuclear bombs are stored.
You just equated part of a building/base with a weapon. That's pants on head retarded.
It's more like the janitor at CERN knowing where the particle accelerator is because he cleans the bathroom down the hall.
>>63904135
don't they have that shit already. you know. kevlar
LOL at thinking that there would be an original idea in this.
You think a company like Disney became the juggernaut it is by making unwise business decisions?
>>63903821
>Is the Starkiller in the books?
What books? You mean the few canon ones that are left? Not to my knowledge, as I think they all cover Old Republic material. It's certainly not in the EU.
>Why does it have trees and an outer atmosphere?
Because its superstructure is built into a planet?
>Why does a planet that close to a star have trees and an outer atmosphere?
Because Disney and Abrams and nobody gives a shit.
>>63904135
>America would provide armor for their soldiers that can withstand a single shot from an assault rifle before they die
They do.
>>63903644
>laser
>>63903811
Because this is a fucking fantasy franchise, and new viewers keep trying to apply their need for realism to the universe when there's no reason to. Personally, I blame autism.
>>63903811
Star Wars fanboy here. I assure you, I think it's shit.
>>63903811
It bothered me ever since I was in the 2nd fucking grade.
I'm 25 now.
>>63904266
you need to make a fantasy world have some sort of "realism" so the fantasy is you know, fantasy. when everything is just stupid bullshit everything is just stupid bullshit.
The OT did this well. Luke couldn't really use the force for jack shit until ROTJ, in ANH he uses it for the trench run, in ESB he uses it to grab his lightsaber in the wampa cave, then post yoda he starts to get gud.
In this, Rey starts off mind tricking right the fuck away, can pull the lightsaber from ren's force-grab, all that bullshit
it cheapens the fuck out of everything.
>>63902970
This. We should have been introduced to the First Order/Remnant vs. Republic Battle before bringing in the Resistance.
There were zero fucks given when the Republic captial was destroyed. That should have been a big moment.
>>63903037
That's a neat and plausible explanation actually
>>63904475
Hear, hear.
>>63904477
Yeah, they really had no idea how to properly handle the 30 year time gap.
The only way to possibly salvage the continuity of Star Wars at this point is through a reboot. But that would be shit too.
>>63904477
Why did they expect to care about a planet we'd never seen or even heard about? Alderaan was where Luke and Obi-wan were going and we got to see Leia's horrified reaction. We don't even know what this place was called.
>>63902621
It was the second dumbest thing in the movie, directly behind Rey and Kylo staring at each other for over a full minute in some youtube teir force struggle.
>>63904477
>>63904736
I feel like that was originally meant to be Coruscant that got btfo which would of course carrry much more weight with the audience, but they probably decided against it because blowing up such a central planet to the Star Wars universe was probably overkill.
not much of a cold war when 1 side has superweapons and another doesn't
why is the new republic so full of pussies, don't they see the threat this poses?
>>63904958
bad writing
The really stupid thing is that flying something at light speed into a planet would destroy it anyway. You could take one of those x wings and flying out into ab planet at light speed and it would destroy it .
>>63904828
>which would of course carrry much more weight with the audience
No it wouldn't. Most people don't have a fucking clue what Coruscant is.
I have no doubt it wasn't destroyed simply because they intend to revisit it at a later date.
>>63904736
b-but anon you see the terrified black people scared of the incoming lasers, why arent you relating to them?!the movie was a rehash of ANH with SJW propaganda dont tink to much into it, star wars is dead
>>63904958
>>63905013
They should have had a fleet battle against a Star Destroyer with a salvaged and upgraded Death Star II Laser that has a long range but can't fully destroy a planet. That way you can have your X Wing battle, your Super McGuffin, and a backdrop to rescue the Mary Sue from while not completely rebooting Episode IV.
It would have made much more sense if the First Order had a massive fleet and a weapon that could pose a real threat to the New Republic.
As anon said, lazy writing.
And here I was hoping I wouldn't have anything to regret with the new trilogy...
>>63903016
So this takes the backstory up from lobotomized grandfather to severely retarded. Too bad fuck all of it was explained in the movie I just paid 20 dollars to see.
At least somebody gives enough of a shit to write about this stuff.
>>63906032
B-but the prequels were ruined by politics...
>>63906088
>Star Wars
>Wars
>Not politics by other means
>>63906088
The prequels were ruined by being comprehensively shitty cash-ins that Lucas didn't care about.
That's not to say that it would be child's play to effectively incorporate a slow-burn political thriller into the Star Wars canon without overloading most of the audience's feeble minds, but I have no doubt it's possible.
>>63903016
>Leia fights the Empire to restore Democracy
>Creates her own terrorist/vigilante group because the political system that she worked to restore isn't up to her standards
>>63906206
Star Politics fucking sucked. They should have just had Sheev take over Hitler style instead of spending so long on his roundabout and nonsensical machinations.
>>63906343
Think about it though. That story of how that happened would be fucking interesting.
>>63906236
The prequels were still good movies that largely made sense and weren't just 90% ACTION. This is a much worse offender and the SW movie yet to boot
>>63906396
>They should have just had Sheev take over Hitler style instead of spending so long on his roundabout and nonsensical machinations.
Uhhhhh you do know how Hitler came to power right?
>>63906412
The prequels made sense, yes, and the politicking contained within them was mostly fine, but:
>shit writing
>shit acting
>shit CG
>shit continuity into the originals
And of course they didn't have the same cinematic heft as the originals. TFA at least remedies some of that, although I won't say it's a good movie by any means
The bigger flaw is that the atmosphere would have sunk into the cavern and made the surface inhospitable for humans.
>>63906409
Interesting enough for a spin-off movie even. I see where you're going with this.
>>63906811
>force fields
Also the surface atmosphere could just as well be replenished from other sources as the main trench was excavated.
I'm not saying Starkiller had a sensible design, but that detail wasn't a problem.
>>63906854
Yes, exactly.
>>63906751
TFA exaggerates literally every one of those issues and doesn't make any sense to boot. What fucking cinematic heft is there when the movie is nearly 2fast2furious: star wars edition. We didn't even get a single new unique world
>>63902621
I'm willing to bet this fucker was in development since the early days of the Empire. You don't build something like this in the 30 or so years it after the fall of the Empire.
I'm willing to bet this is also left-over or half-done tech from the Sith empire.
>>63902910
well, they go what they deserved then.
>>63903016
Literally the interwar period in 1920 and 30
>>63906967
>We didn't even get a single new unique world
>alright goys, we've gotta hit Tatooine, we've gotta hit Yavin, we've gotta hit the Death Star too
>fuck it I want to do Hoth as well, just mash that up with one of the other ones and we'll figure something out
>>63907048
Plausible speculation, but the movie makes nothing of it.
>>63906967
You got the ocean world with a single island.
>>63903061
Crossing the galaxy takes at least a week in a ship with a commercial hyperdrive, less if it's military or high-spec.at least according to EU
>>63903200
because then you can't have your rebel alliance underdog expies to hit the story beats of ANH
>>63907178
That barely fucking counts. Eveything else was not x the planet.
>>63907134
Yavin IV, I mean.
>>63903260
how does that not fuck up the gravitational stability of the star system?
>>63907258
It uses time dilation and gyro stabilizers. Don't worry about it. Worry more that JJ thinks every last planet is like moon distance apart judging by his hosnian explosion scene.
>>63902621
Anyone else wanted it tojust get crippled in the attack with the First Order going "It'll take 10 years to repair the damage done to the Starkiller" I feel having the planet blow up was just too much fucking poetry.
>>63907258
Holy fuck m8 you are asking to be upset if you assume that much thought went into this.
>>63902621
>Still has the same glaringly obvious security flaws that a few guys can literally just walk in and blow it up
They had to get an insider to bring down the shields. Granted, had a similar flaw to the second Death Star, but that's a matter of the facility's security.
>>63907333
was hoping it would get crippled but Hux demands it be fired anyway which causes it to blow up
>>63903313
Mars is a cold, dusty, red desert, except for its poles. And it's a bit cloudy but I'm pretty sure Venus is entirely a hellish acid shitland.
>>63907258
Judging from what I saw, it seemed, somehow, the star was retaining it's mass, just losing it's energy. When the last bit of energy had been drained from the star, it seemed to have been pulled around a large black sphere.
so dunno lol ecksdee
>>63907512
>a hellish acid shitland
You mean /tv/.
>>63903118
>Not having any capital ships or snub fighters patrolling surrounding space or the atmosphere
>not having anything, even fucking radar, keeping an eye on the skies above your mega-weapons only weakness that they tell every janitor about.
Also how in the name of unholy fuck did somebody who was raised in Stormtrooper culture his entire life, was molded to be the perfect stormtrooper his entire time in the First Order just decide to start waxing his fellow stormtroopers without any problem?
That pilot guy with the dumb name literally shoots his friend or comrade and he dies in Fin's arms. Fin's reaction? Join up with the guy that just shot his friend and start slaughtering his other friends and comrades he has spent his entire life with. What the fuck JJ
>>63907702
This really bugged me. Cant kill stragers, but the only people hes ever known? No problem. Its literally worse than the Tomb Raider reboot.
>>63907808
Yeah exactly. Can't blast xenon, but he can turn around and waste the guys he ate in the mess hall and shared a barracks with no problem. Hugs the guy that shot the bloody handprint trooper.
>>63907702
>>63907808
>>63907997
Here's how this plays out for JJ and most people in the audience:
>stormtrooper armor on
>this is a bad guy, bad guys kill good guys
>stormtrooper armor off
>this is a good guy, good guys kill bad guys
Morality and nuance fail to enter the equation.
>>63908114
Yeah that really pissed me off. Like think if you were raised in the United States Marine Corps your entire life. Since you were a toddler. And you go on your first combat op. A Taliban shoots your buddy from a village and you hold him in your arms as he dies. His blood in on your helmet. You are not going to seek that sniper out and then go defect to the Taliban with him. You are going to be a killing machine. baka.
>>63903644
Yeah maybe then everyone would wear it and the whole movie would be people shooting at each other and nothing happening. That'd be swell, it would make for some great scenes and would make a lot of sense, you know, because no one could ever make lasers more powerful or something. Like in the real world, when one side comes up with a stronger armor, like, that's it man, game over.
Fucking autists.
>>63908386
This, the scene made it seem Finn was traumatized at seeing his brother in arm shot down and bleed out on him. Yet minutes later he's perfectly fine killing his buddy's with the lasers on a fucking TIE fighter.
His reasons for defection should have been
1. He's treated like shit for being the "janitor"
2. watching innocents get killed
3. Being afraid to die
>>63908598
>This, the scene made it seem Finn was traumatized at seeing his brother in arm shot down and bleed out on him.
I think actually more fundamentally, it was supposed to illustrate something in his programming/conditioning almost literally breaking. He started to shake, as if he was a malfunctioning robot. That's why reconditioning him didn't work.
>>63908598
Even then, he was raised in Stormtrooper culture his entire life. He says he was taken from his family when he was a baby or a toddler. He doesn't even have a name. As far as he knows, its his glorious duty to sweep up messes for the First Order and he is greatly honored to get to kill people for the Order. He should be thrilled he gets to finally use his stormtrooper training that he has been developing since childhood. Not crying and waddling around the kill zone. Like what the fuck kind of training did he go through. Especially since the Shiny Stormtrooper Lady said he had no demerits beforehand.
And what was up with this Sjiny Lady who was apparently a high ranking combat officer being such a pussy. Die for your cause if you've actually proven worthy of the shiny armor and cape. Is the First Order full of fucking retards or is it like the National Guard and this Iperium stuff is just on the weekends? That stuff pissed me off.
>>63902621
>See starkiller
>think "oh I see they couldn't afford to make another death star so they just hooked up the big laser canon to a planets core to save time/money
>Turns out it drains a nearby sun for power
>Turns out is is several times stronger than the death star
shit is retarded
>>63908747
Pretty shitty brainwashing and conditioning. If they're trying to make them effective killers in a combat zone anyway. Did nobody let him know that people were going to get killed? He should have been brainwashed from the start that he is an expendable warrior of the First Order and he is going to kill anyone, armed or not, that his officers tell him too. Like think Imperium of Man from 40k, mixed with like…idk. Nazis. Logically, Finn should've been chomping at the bit to go kill some filthy rebels. But muh sad stormtrooper
>"Galactic Concordance which ended the war, and reduced the Empire to a rump state having to obey strict disarmament policies, and pay war reparations"
>obey strict disarmament policies
>builds planet-sized superweapon
>new republic: "who fkn cares nerd lmao"
but let me guess WW2 POTTERY AMIRITE
>>63909120
wat
read it again
>>63903016
>Rivaling opposing forces
>Their team colors are red against orange
Who the fuck thought this was a good idea. Just go with red and blue like literally every other movie ever made. Or at least something vaguely contrasting
>>63907320
>>63907134
This.
Thiiiiiiiiis !!!
THIS !
FUck !
I watched an average scifi movie yesterday, not a star wars
>>63911998
Are you colorblind, anon?
>>63903451
>>63903523
That's because the entire Star Wars galaxy is filled with air.
Why did you think you can hear sounds in space?
>>63912889
>i am 12 and wat is colour theory
>>63904135
They do you fucking retard, almost all soldiers killed die because of explosions not bullets.
>>63903432
>random janitor in the marines knowing where the nuclear bombs are stored
I have a friend at l'Ile Longue and he perfectly knows where the french nuclear weapons are, it's not really a secret.
>>63903811
Because that's like wondering why the Orcs didn't try to poison Aragorn's food at some point in LotR, or why Gandalf didn't use to Eagles to go directly to Mt Doom.
It's retarded reasoning, the only thing we can complain about is the ginger's incompetency.
>>63902828
Because the freshness just means it received 95% positive reviews.
>>63908598
He's not sad at the sight of his brother in arms dying. It just makes him realise he has no reason to die the same.
In case you didn't realise, he doesn't start as a moralefag, but as a coward.
>>63902828
>decent acting (everyone was at least good except Carrie Fisher)
>unoriginal plot
>great characters
>terrible dialogues
>great effects
>great depiction of the universe
This was the worst thing about the movie for me. After dealing with the death of their leaders, the empire somehow builds a 3rd death star that's way bigger than the others? That's the plot, a biggerer strongerer death star?
>>63915540
I think we'll know whether or not it's a real plot hole when we learn more about who the fuck is Snoke.
>people not understanding political situation in TFA from the movie alone
what does being a literal retard feel like
>>63915388
right. 95% of critics who bothered to post their review on RTs thought it was good - to great. Sometimes it doesn't reflect the value of the film.
>>63915540
They destroyed 5 planets and the seat of the new republic with that thing. It was a pretty good investment.
>>63902621
>Still has the same glaringly obvious security flaws that a few guys can literally just walk in and blow it up
Not really.They had shields this time, and it took an actual bombing run with no Y wings instead of a single blaster shot
>>63915582
Seeing as how Kylo Ren could pull thoughts out of peoples' heads which is an old school Sith ability, Snoke is probably one of those
>>63915963
I would bet he's actually not a Sith, or at least that he rejects that heritage.
>>63909120
Bad pottery. Why even allow the empire to continue to exist in the first place? It never was a sovereign country, just a junta government. It's like letting the Nazis stay in charge of Bavaria or something.
>>63915474
>great characters
Other than Finn, who was misused, and Poe, who had the potential to be a good character but was underutilized, this is wrong.
>great depiction of the universe
This is also blatantly wrong. There was exactly zero effective world-building or interesting depictions of new worlds or environments.
>>63916113
Rey is good. It's not because she's talented that she's a mary sue.Her naive way to deal with things and her enfant sauvage attitude are really good.
Kylo Ren can be summed up as an angsty teen and yet his relationship with Han and the fear he imposes to the other characters completely redeems him.
Poe is nice.
Finn is interesting, and he has an actual development, going from total coward who refuse to kill innocent people not because it's wrong, but because he's not given a good enough reason to do it (he's far from being a moralfag) to facing Kylo Ren on 1v1 to protect someone he loves.
>>63916409
I like the idea behind Finn's character, but he bounced between comedy relief and super serious way too much. Still, he was one of the better parts of the movie.
Rey is completely uninteresting because she's good at EVERYTHING. I can buy her being a good mechanic, and maybe even a decent pilot. But being able to out-Force Kylo Ren and also outduel him is retarded. Oh yeah, and don't forget she's also a badass who can beat up two guys at once when they tried to steal BB-8.
Kylo could've been intimidating had they not made him throw temper tantrums like an edgy teenager and had they cast a less goofy looking actor. Also, having him get his ass handed to him by Rey (and having Finn hold his own against him with a lightsaber for a brief moment - this was also dumb) only further devalued him as an effective villain.
Kylo's relationship to Han wasn't developed in the slightest other than the audience being told "Kylo is Han's son". Their relationship and Kylo's upbringing could have been interesting, but it wasn't explored and thus Han's death wasn't effective or emotional, other than simply seeing an old, familiar character die.
I assume that in VIII Kylo's character will get fleshed out, but he's already gotten the shit kicked out of him by an untrained female junk scavenger from Jakku. Why am I supposed to care about him now? You want the heroes to overcome adversity, not the villains. I want to see Rey get beaten down and then make a comeback, not Kylo. This is basic storytelling 101.
Speaking of which, why are movies afraid nowadays to create effective villains? Blofeld was the same in Spectre. Completely non-threatening, incompetent and actually not much of a villain at all.
>>63916746
>Rey is completely uninteresting because she's good at EVERYTHING. I can buy her being a good mechanic, and maybe even a decent pilot. But being able to out-Force Kylo Ren and also outduel him is retarded. Oh yeah, and don't forget she's also a badass who can beat up two guys at once when they tried to steal BB-8.
She's just helped by the force. Most of the time it's just pure luck especially in the Millenium Falcon. And she only beat Kylo Ren because he was previously injured by Chewie and Finn.
>Also, having him get his ass handed to him by Rey (and having Finn hold his own against him with a lightsaber for a brief moment - this was also dumb) only further devalued him as an effective villain.
Again you forget that he took a blaster shot that one shot kill about everyone in the movie.
>Their relationship and Kylo's upbringing could have been interesting, but it wasn't explored and thus Han's death wasn't effective or emotional, other than simply seeing an old, familiar character die.
You don't need hours of explanation to completely understand the relationship between both. It wasn't overly emotional but imo it was effective.
And about that crossbow blaster shot, most troopers who got it by that shit got blown the fuck out in the air. That's the one of the reason why he lost. Also because he just killed his father whom he still loved.
Looks like a hand drawn picture. Pretty cool senpai.
Also, can we all agree that Carrie Fisher was TERRIBLE?
>>63916951
>She's just helped by the force.
See, that was the problem. She wasn't. It would have been fine, if not great, if she had powers that she didn't fully understand or could subtly influence things but didn't quite understand why or how.
Instead she apparently has gone from not even believing in the Force to being a Jedi master.
They sure as hell didn't build up enough about her past to make the wiped memories theory be a worthwhile explanation either. She just seems to accept the powers and not even question it.
>>63917079
She's pretty much a feral child so it explains why she doesn't question it. Also you don't need to control the force to be influenced by it.
Remember what Qui Gonn says to Ani and his mother.
I didn't like that the resistance only had fucking X-Wings. I know they're there for recognizability and shit but some A-Wings, B-Wings or hell a new fighter ship would have been nice. The new fighter ship could have generated more toy sales and create a identifiable distinction between generations of conflict like how the clone wars/galactic civil war had different tech and ships.
>>63915540
Well the empire was all over the Galaxy so it's not like Palpatine was a one man show. And they had 30 years to make the new death star and they made the 2nd in like a few years between ANH and ROTJ. Not defending that they made another fucking deathstar but it's not like they didn't have enough time.
what retarded superweapon will they use in the next 2 movies?
a sun weapon that eats up planets to charge its laser?
>>63917277
>Remember what Qui Gonn says to Ani and his mother.
Fuck you
>>63916951
Most of what you're saying with regard to Rey and Kylo is headcanon stuff. And I'm not asking for hours of explanation, but spending 5 or 10 minutes on Kylo Ren as a character as well as his relationship to Han would've done the movie a world of good.
And regardless of Kylo taking a bowcaster shot to the gut, an untrained junk scavenger who just picked up a lightsaber and has had no training in the Force shouldn't be able to hold her own, much less defeat someone who's trained in both (if we're meant to take the latter person seriously as a threat).
>>63907525
>the star was retaining it's mass, just losing it's energy
There's a very important equation you're forgetting right now.
>>63916988
She was awful and spoke as if she's had a stroke (she hasn't had a stroke, has she?).
>>63917563
Also, something I really haven't seen anyone mention - when they say Starkiller Base is powered by "the sun", what sun are they talking about? Isn't there more than one in the SW universe? Binary sunset on Tatooine, remember? What a fucking lazy concept.
>>63902621
The First Order were literally around during the time of the Empire and were a faction of them. They were just doing their own thing in their own part of the star system.
>>63917678
the force and shit will fix it
t. JJ
>>63902621
Death Stars were built out in space, starkiller is built on an existing planet, so I guess it should be easier to construct. But the time frame is still pretty screwy
>>63917671
He could barely walk before the fight.
>>63917826
And then he starts spinning around and beating the shit out of people. He didn't fight like an injured man at all.
>>63917862
That's because he's strong.
But apparently not strong enough in this state to beat a force sensitive.
>>63908598
He defects mostly for that 3rd reason and partly because of that 2nd, he doesn't leave because of some moral high ground. He killed those storm troopers later on because it was either those fuckers or him and the pilot.
>>63918029
Being force sensitive doesn't mean shit, Luke got beaten by a fucking Tusken Raider.
>>63902770
>What is the War Economy
>Implying self-serving senators weren't fully aware of this
>Hands itching for War Economy profit
A this point the Republic was funding the "Resistance" to fight a proxy war for them-- you really don't think some of the senators weren't stoking the First Order fires?
Wouldn't be surprised if there were republic credits being laundered and used to fund its construction.
>>63916746
They got the goofy actor to highlight how important the mask is to his identity. Kylo was meant to be introduced as this badass villain who can fuck up anything and everything, and then be broken down throughout the movie because he has a lot of fucking issues and isn't close to being as powerful as he wants to be. They were superb at doing that.
>>63917079
She's extremely force sensitive, 4x or 5x that of luke. This is made apparent when she has the force hallucinations after coming into contact with Anakin's lightsaber.
>>63918240
Midichlorian count?
>>63918091
Luke was a farmer and had nothing but intermittent blaster experience, Rey is a lone junkyard scavenger who has likely been in plenty of skirmishes similar to the one where she nearly lost the BB8
>>63902809
Here's the issue with that. In any construction with that level of complexity, you wouldn't just use one massive capacitor. You'd space shit out. Redundancy is a key element of engineering. You may have one primary thing that they take out, but then you basically isolate that system, handle any surge through a redundant system, and vent the affected bit into the vacuum.
And then you fucking kill the ones who did it.
>>63902621
>>Still has the same glaringly obvious security flaws that a few guys can literally just walk in and blow it up
How retarded are you? They had to infiltrate the base and use explosives to expose a weak point in the base. There wasn't some exhaust port magically sticking out to attack.
did you even watch the movie?
>>63916746
I feel they could have swapped Adam Driver and Oscar Issac.
In the end, not sure if I'd prefer a more imposing Kylo Ren or a less impressive Poe Dameron.
>>63918304
>plenty of skirmishes
But the argument was that she won because she was-force sensitive, no? You can't really argue that she won because of her experience when she experienced nothing like a jedi fight before.
>>63902621
No you are not some special snowflake. Everyone though that was dumb as fuck.
Everyone even think it's dumb as fuck in New Hope.
>>63902621
Know what would've been fucking magical? If they succeeded, and then nothing happened.
>>63917277
A good opp would have been for her to "convince" the Salvage Boss for a bigger portion to eat.
She would be surprised and not realize it was mind control.
I concede, there are plenty of opportunities to use a very rough-hewn control of the Force if all you know is that you can make stuff easier to grab, figure out tricky situations because you "feel" the right way to go or to cause things to happen your way when you really really concentrate hard enough.
Growing up on a desert planet in the school or hard knocks and dinner-less nights would definitely make you rely on the force as a rough survival tool, naturally.
>>63918347
how abou twins, both played by Oscar
>>63918368
She won because she was force sensitive, but she was able to fight and effectively wield the light saber in the first place because of her experience in melee combat.
The point of that post was that there are some huge difference between Luke when he gets btfo by the raiders and Rey when she fights kylo.
>>63918465
I envision a Kylo Ren played by Oscar Issac to be a more angry Blue Jones from Suckerpunch and I am fully okay with that.
>>63918330
how retarded are you? they did the same thing with return of the jedi and have to destroy the shield generator before attacking the Death Star.
>>63918455
I had this exact thought, they could have added a lot by showing her "use" the force in unconventional or instinctive ways. I doubt they would have done it in a way that wasn't glaringly obvious though lol
>>63918496
The point is that being force sensitive literally doesn't help you at all without force training (just rewatch the Tusken attack). And again, she didn't have any experience fighting the Jedi with a lightsaber. She'd probably cut her own hand off sooner than killing anyone.
>>63902621
Was it ever explained how they managed to covert a fucking planet into a weapon like that ? I mean, how do you even manage to take out such massive chunks of the planet like that ? Wouldn't that money have been better spent funding a huge space armada or something ?
>>63902621
There are easier, cheaper, and more mobile ways to accomplish what the SKB was made for.
Also better presented ways with more impact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6KvaM4jhgA
>>63918638
It's meant to mimic the Nazi obsession with impractical super-weapons...for the third time.
Rey is Luke's daughter.
After travelling across the universe at light speed. the beam knows exactly in how many pieces to separate to hit all those planets. That's some brilliant engineering right there, i gotta say
>>63918595
Eh, Melee experience is melee experience. Same way Finn can fight with light saber-- I assume Stormtroopers have basic melee weapons training (That Riot Baton guy was legit and weren't lightsabers intended to be simple side-arms for Stormtroopers anyway?).
You can tell Rey is fighting in staff style stance (lots of thrusts, stabs and full body swings). She's adapting what she knows to this melee weapon is all.
>>63903449
Nice pic
>>63918595
She doesn't have force training, but she has combat experience and as a result she has combat reflexes and has been developing those reflexes her entire life as a result of how/where she lives. Her level of sensitivity to the force, in my opinion, makes it totally plausible that she could focus that "feeling" she's always felt into fighting and that it would enhance her already-developed reflexes.
>>63918658
And before someone says "But that's not near enough damage as the SKB. It destroyed star systems!"
You take a Star Destroyer, strip it down, jump it directly into a planet through a hyperspace jump. Cheap and easy.
>>63916746
Kylo is going to be redeemed by the end of this series. He and Rey are going to take down snoke together probably
>>63903432
Well, 2 of the 4 main antagonists in this were actually just above diaper wearing.
>>63904135
>what is kevlar
>>63917671
Hey, Anon...It's just a movie for kids. Relax and enjoy the laser fights.
>>63918734
>Eh, Melee experience is melee experience.
You think? Ok, go to your local HEMA club, grub someone who's trained with a sword, give him nunchaku and see how well he does against someone who's trained with it.
>and weren't lightsabers intended to be simple side-arms for Stormtroopers anyway
You can't be serious.
>>63918771
>enhance her already-developed reflexes.
But it wouldn't enhance her non-existent skill with the lightsaber.
>>63903338
>>63903206
the funny thing is that a fanfiction actually thought of that and had a villain do it
>>63915064
why don't they make armor that can withstand a single explosion then?
checkmate atheists
I really hope Poe gets more screen time in episode 8 and 9. They've already established him as being an incredibly effective fighter on the ground, too. Dude didn't even miss a shot in the beginning. Maybe the next movie will be him and Finn teaming up doing stuff while Rey is getting trained by Luke. I think it's promising that they didn't just have BB8 go with Rey at the end and returned to Poe, considering BB8 is going to be a huge part of the new trilogy and have a lot of screen time devoted to him.
>>63918304
>plenty of skirmishes
Fighting two dirty peasants on some backwater planet sure is the same thing as fighting a trained sith. That's completely believable and not shallow writing at all.
Just like fucking with a few outdated broken starships is all the training you need to master all mechanical devices.
>>63908386
Tell that to Bowe Bergdahl
>>63919150
That one fight is not all of her fighting experience you dingus, you realize it's implied that this character has lived for a little while off screen.
>>63903313
That's the thing I liked more about Jakku, for example. There's the graveyard for ships to a side, the sand sinkholes to the other and the town in the middle.
Sad that it still was all desert, but at least it was desert with nuances.
>>63919256
My point was that fighting a few starving peasants with a stick is not enough experience to justify beating a conventionally trained knight. Hell, the drastic change in weapon weight and reach alone should've been enough to completely throw her off.
>>63919379
She does fight pretty awkwardly and spends a lot of time running away. It's not like she's flipping around with a bunch of enhanced choreography, she holds her own until she focuses all of her energy on the force or whatever it is that happens when rylo has her at the edge of the pit
>>63919460
That focusing thing was so fucking retarded, why was bizarro Keanu Reeves just waiting for a minute instead of kicking her off the cliff ?
For that matter, how'd she even figure out she could do that ? Do force power just randomly manifest once you gather enough xp ?
>>63917277
She literally becomes as capable as a jedi master within the span of ten minutes. She magically is able to do things that it takes a lifetime of work for talented jedi to be able to do. Anakin was found to be a supremely gifted jedi yet still had to be trained from a very early age before he became competent. That's the whole point of jedi academies for crying out loud. Rey on the other hand just bypasses that and achieves superiority over a trained sith without time, effort or training. Just like magic. Gifted pianists still have to train hard from an early age before they can play chopin, but this bitch learned a few chords and ten minutes later was knocking out renditions of winter wind.
You have to be pretty brainless to find her absurdly quick development in any way passable.
>>63919628
Yea that shit was pretty lame, I guess kylo thought he could scare her into surrendering or something. And she does it earlier when she mind tricks the storm trooper but I thought it was poorly executed there as well
>>63918176
That's actually the case in the "Before the Awakening" book. Like Poe's first mission for the Resistance is to follow a lead on a Republic Senator possibly being a First Order shill.
>>63902621
i couldnt beleive they just used the exact same technique to blow up the star killer. i didnt think they would stoop so low.
>disable shields with practically zero effort
>fly in a heavily defended/fortified base with only a few fighters
>shoot at one spot which blows up the whole thing
how could they be this lazy? could they not come up with anything better at all.
the star killer should have just been a weapon which destroyed stars (as the name implies) thus killing all life within that paticular solar system in the process
and the destruction of the star killer should not have been easy. a long drawn out war between the first order and the republic should have occured and it should have taken a whole trilogy of movies to destroy it. or even better the republic invades it to use it for themselves eventually becoming the new bad- guys or something i dont know. but anything would have been better than what actually happned in the movie
>>63919682
If you think she was as capable as a Jedi master by the end of that film I am going to confidently assert that you haven't watched the movie, and I would recommend you do so soon
>>63919782
POTTERY
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>>63919782
They didn't shoot at one spot the whole time and blow it up, they had to blow a hole in the side of it from the inside and then have an extraordinary pilot fly in and drop bombs on the supporting infrastructure. Go watch the fucking movie.
Let's put the (only) shield on and off switch for our incredible important and big investment into some barely guarded remote room. :^^^^)
>>63919824
Not fully, but mind control and telekinesis are highly developed skills. You need to be taught them and hone them over time. It's utterly dumb to have your character instantaneously intuit them and execute them with superiority over a fucking trained sith. Hence Jedi training procedure.
>>63915474
i think harrison ford's perfrormance was pretty sub par to be honest. you could really tell he was just an actor saying his lines. he didnt come across as han solo he just came across as harrison ford. which i guess is understandable
>>63903423
>because han solo is insane
Was, anon, was insane.
First manned airplane: 1903
First manned spaceflight: 1961
>>63902828
Star Wars 5 was the only film that wasn't average
3 kind also
>>63919884
he flew in and dropped off off a couple bombs which managed to destroy a planet sized structure. doesnt matter if it was one shot or if he was the best pilot in all the parellel universes put together it was stupid and it was more or less the same technique used with the two previous death stars
it's a joke
>>63903423
that was a very lazy plot device in my opinion
>>63916951
Helped by the force?
Supposedly, the force is subtle, like magic in LOTR, and only the most powerful users can do shit like control minds and throw electricity.
I can buy she's proficient at staff fighting, maybe, but everything else is bull.
>>63920233
You're a moron and I don't like talking to you
>>63920365
>we need to destroy this huge thing
>it can be completely destroyed by shooting/bombing one spot/area
>fly into this thing shoot/bomb the necessary area successfully with a few fighters on the first attempt
>the entire structure is destroyed
>mission accomplished boys, it's time to go home
>repeat this formula 2 more times changing a couple tiny details
this is lazy film making and nobody with a functioning brain should defend this
>>63903260
Haven't seen the film, but when stars run out of fuel, they collapse and superheat, then expand larger than before, then finally collapse again.
>>63903704
>didn't everyone freeze to death?
The sun is a radiant heat source. For the first day or so it would be no different than "night time" or an arctic winter, with no more solar heat and the planet slowly cools.
The planet would not instantly flash freeze the moment the sun went out. After a few days it would obviously get worse though.
>What happens to the gravitational forces of the star and direction of the other planets, once it's sucked up?
It is unclear if the star in that movie lost it's energy/nuclear fuel and became a neutron star or other lifeless lump (same mass, but very small and/or no more fusion occurring).
The big burning sun did fade away into a little blue dot so it is hard to say what happened.
>>63902621
the star killer base is a PLANET on which they build the weapon, while the deathstars are entirely humanly constructed
>>63902621
they built it using the star forge
>>63907407
They always had the plans stolen and scanned for weaknesses in previous instances, too.
>>63902770
Galaxy is a big ass place, they probably had it hidden for too long
>>63921531
Even the empire couldn't hide the death star from the rebels.
>>63902621
Before I watched the movie I thought it was a pretty stupid plot device, but after watching the movie it makes sense.
> Stormtroopers are conditioned from birth and reprogrammed when they step out of line
> a Stormtrooper who worked on the star killer base and defects to the rebels was not a legitimate risk
> the shield protecting the base defends against most conventional attacks
> hyperdriving into the shield radius wasn't a legitimate risk because it wasn't supposed to be possible
> any big weapon has an exhaust or an intake or some external protrusion that can damage the weapon in a catastrophic cascading failure
> as much as you mitigate that risk - it's still the biggest flaw of big weapons
I read another article suggesting alternatives to a giant deathstar, like multiple fleets of star destroyers - but if you think about it a death star or star killer are a really efficient use of logistics and crew. All the Empire wanted to do was wipe out the Republic and for that they needed a WMD.
But there are plenty of legitimate points in this thread.
>>63921821
Because the Empire didn't need to hide it, they were the ones in power and not an underground force
>>63921933
Actually, they did try to hide it, it was a secret project.
>>63922062
Shut the fuck up bitch
>>63919022
Thrawn threatened it in the eponymous trilogy. He set up a blockade of like 20 cloaked asteroids with rocket drives into orbit above Coruscant and told everyone it wa actually like 144. They were scared stiff until Talon Karrde (Jabba's successor and a good guy) told them they had destroyed all 20.
>>63921821
>Even the empire couldn't hide the death star from the rebels.
The death star was deliberately leaked both times to draw out the rebels.
The first time the rebels were allowed to escape with the death star plans in order to draw them into a "last stand" battle and wipe them out once and for all.
The second death star was also blatantly a trap. It was irresistible bait designed to lure sky walker in, and also destroy all his friends and fill him with despair and hatred. Destroying the rebel fleet would have just been an added bonus.
In the force awakens the existence of the super weapon was not purposely leaked. It also seemed like a much more limited terrorist weapon as it was not mobile and could not provide sustained fire.
Charging it once didn't destroyed the sun, but rapidly charging it a second time extinguished it. Unlike the Death star this weapon could not be used to intimidate or control the galaxy if it could never fire again. It was simply a big one shot revenge weapon.
>>63921469
>MAKE SURE THEY DON'T STEAL THE PLANS THIS TIME GUYS!
>.....
2 moons and a planet later, these faggots never learn.
What's funny is how mundane this shit is by now, Snoke didn't even give a single fuck.
>>63922193
No, only the second death star was a trap.
>>63922242
Snoke won though.
The galactic republic capital world (Hosnian Prime) and it's fleet was obliterated. The secondary objective was the resistance base but they were a lesser threat with just a handful of fighters.
His only failure was in obtaining the map to skywalker, but he probably figured skylwaker would come out of retirement and come to him anyway after what he had done.
>>63907525
E=mc vagina
>>63902822
Exactly. Jj is a lazy story teller. We knew this already.
>>63922460
the whole fleet was there at the same time?
I also felt like making the death star but a planet was totally overkill in every way.
![OWK_Delta-7B_2[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/q4JWQB6.png "OWK_Delta-7B_2[1].png")
>>63903206
the attachment already exists too
>>63922460
Even assuming only half these systems rejoined a proper republic, what fucking affect would wiping out the equivalent of Washington DC do other than to royally piss off the other remaining 100+ systems and send them off to war against you. Theres no plausible way the entire galactic military force was also docked on a hosnian planet at the time, or even a signifigant portion. Its an incredibly stupid plan, even for JJ.
>>63922391
>No, only the second death star was a trap.
The rebels knew about the death star long before ANH began. The first rebel victory was securing those plans. Initially the empire wanted to wipe them out and secure the plans but then they decided to use the plans as a means to locate the hidden base.
It was said twice in ANH that the rebels were allowed to get a hold of the plans.
Tarkin:
>You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship? I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work.
Leia confirms:
>Besides, they let us go. It's the only explanation for the ease of our escape.
>>63922737
I'm not talking about the plans, I'm talking about them learning about the deathstar's existence.
>>63922652
>the whole fleet was there at the same time?
Apparently, yes. Bad writing but they seemed to pool all their resources close to their capital like retards.
They said the fleet was destroyed but I'm sure a handful of ships were out on missions or resolving disputes.
>>63922652
>>63922820
PEARL HARBOR
POTTERY
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E
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Y
>>63904477
>the Republic captial was destroyed
so that's what was destroyed? I was confused as what planets they were blowing up because I was expecting the base to blow up another sun not kill it's own.
>>63922820
I really hope this isn't true. That would be the worst bit of writing in all of TFA, and thats really saying something with Finns plotline existing.
>>63922696
There seemed to be little confidence in the new republic at the best of times and they were barely holding things together. The resistance and the first order both formed out of disillusionment with their ineffective government.
The bureaucrats ignored the growing first order threat and had their capital blown away because of their incompetence. Very few planets will stay loyal to them now especially without a fleet backing them up.
Episode VIII will see all out galactic civil war once again.
>>63923007
Wouldn't it make more sense for them to rebuild a fleet and band together stronger thsn ever rather than falling in with psychopathic child stealing planet destroyers? Thats like saying after 9/11 several states left and joined al queda. It doesnt make sense.
>>63903016
Anyone find it ironic that Leia has no patience for a legal process and wants to act unilaterally, exactly like Sheev did?
