So, who's worse?
>>63900628
Kylo ren.
Mutt had some good moments like the soda bar scene and the college chase and they had some good banter
>>63900628
Kylo was actually the best thing in the movie tbqh family.
Tom Hanks's real son.
when will this "kylo ren is bad" meme end?
>>63900628
Adam Driver >>> Shia
>>63900628
From who's point of view?
>Kylo Ren
>bad
Sorry you faggots took the "what would really happen if one of your edgelord OCs was actually in Star Wars" angle too personally. Ya'll fags just hate em cause he was written as a giant middle finger to your autistic self-insert characters.
>>63900628
I liked Kylo, he's a good character, his motivation is just shit tho
>>63900628
Kylo is a legitimately interesting character with a lot of potential
Mutt exists
Kylo was intentionally a hateable little shit. Mutt was just like that because Shia's a douche.
>>63900628
Kylo was actually good, and Mutt was shit.
>>63901495
I feel sorry for Tom. That's supposed to be a phase.
Shia was sexier
>>63900628
Could Kylo Ren beat Actual Cannibal Shia Lebouf?
>>63900628
He honest to god looks like the villain from grandmas boy.
Why did they cast some lanky nerd instead of someone slightly intimidating.
>>63903995
Because the whole point is he needs the mask to be intimidating
>>63900628
I thought Kylo was great.
Not a chick so don't give a shit how cute he is or isn't. He played the part of a conflicted villain very well.
kylo was supposed to be a whiny, undisciplined angry bitch with a veneer of vader. that's the foundation of his character and it fits with his backstory + motivations.
the fuck is wrong with you
Kylo is good at being a hateable villain. Pretty much a school shooter sith lord. Not too cool or charismatic like most mainstream villains.
>>63904033
So he's supposed to be some lame faggot?
Make one your main villains a tool? I mean I guess he is a literal tool for the actual main villian similar to the vader/palpetine dynamic but I would have liked to be able to take his ass seriously, the fact that he has to disguise his voice and appearance kind of makes him a fuck boy. His hair was also really weird? It looks like a sith lord spends too much fucking time in the mirror.
I kind of got an 80s villian vibe from him, like skeletor or something that start out semi-intimidating but then just end up a total joke. I really hope that shit doesn't happen.
I do appreciate your input though, at least it means that it wasn't a screw up but something they did intentionally.
>>63904282
>So he's supposed to be some lame faggot?
Yes, he's a real person not some ideal. He has room to change, grow, conflict, reflect, etc. A "story" or "arc" or "plot".
>>63904282
see >>63904119
Kylo will be a character who grows and develops alongside Rey in this triolgy. He's not meant to be Darth Vader, they straight out make it part of his character (he gets upset when Rey calls him weak and afraid that he'll never be as strong as Vader).
If you don't like that type of villain then that's your personal preference and not something wrong with the movie
>>63904282
>Not very attractive
>Worships Darth Vader
>Fucks up everything the Original Trilogy has been fighting for
>Kills Hans Solo
>Literally a school shooter with jedi
>Berated and mocked by almost everyone
Yeah hes a bit of a loser villain but its pretty obvious he'll redeem himself because pottery
>>63904396
>goes off to train with luke
>thinks he'll never be good enough to live up to vaders legacy as a jedi
>becomes a sith to get stronger and live up to legacy
>now worried he won't live up to vaders legacy as a sith lord
Is this correct? If so I like it. Kind of makes me wonder where he's gonna go, I feel like a redemption would be way too predicable, I hope they go somewhere else.
>All new actors are British except villain who's American
Bravo Nolan
>>63904612
>>thinks he'll never be good enough to live up to vaders legacy as a jedi
>>becomes a sith to get stronger and live up to legacy
I don't think these two are accurate
Kylo has parent issues, leia and han sent him away to luke's jedi bible camp when they sensed the dark side in him
it backfired and he started to resent them even more (when he learns rey thinks of Han as the father she never had, Kylo says 'he would've let you down')
At some point snoke seduces him to the dark side and he fucks up luke's jedi academy (details are ambiguous but it's possible he kills and/or converts all the kids)
>>63901495
>real son
What do you mean by that?
>>63904886
Actual son. Not movie son like Mutt and Kylo.
>>63900628
kylo ren has a chin that can cut like the edge of a knife.
we can't really know shit about kylo without knowing about snoke. otherwise he's just some angsty psychopath who snapped and decided to worship vader because (?)
we do know that luke is a big ol gaping pussy though who couldn't defend his younglings.
People who think Kylo Ren was bad seriously need to go back to reddit.
>>63904991
Spoiler: It wasn't Snoke who radicalized him.
>>63904991
I think Snoke is just another Sith lord user.
Not hard to imagine since there seems to be plenty of other jedi users.
>>63905053
what do you think happened then? luke?
>>63904822
Wasn't that his original reason for turning because he was obsessed with his vader?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kylo_Ren
It says here he was obsessed with anakin the sith lord and not the jedi. Kind of like those people that idealize school shooters and shit. I guess i was wrong but I like the idea that people drawn to the dark side are initially drawn for good intentions (anakin wanting to protect his loved ones ) and I would have liked for kylo to reflect that but I guess this is good enough.
>>63904033
So...Nobody cared who he was until he put it on?
>>63902010
this
>>63904822
>snoke
I still can't believe that's the name of the big bad.
>>63905142
Leia directly says in the movie 'snoke seduced our son to the dark side' but they had noticed signs of the dark side in him before they had even sent him to luke
I haven't read any non-movie TFA material, it's possible that he had developed a fascination with sith lord darth vader which is when they thought he had signs of the dark side in him which made them send him away to luke
I don't think kylo was turned because of good intentions. If he was, his whole internal conflict would make less sense. If he had good intentions he would have something to justify in himself why he stays with the dark side, but he doesn't have that
>>63905409
He really seemed like he didn't want to kill his father. The struggle is real. I have a feeling he'll have a Vader-redemption arc. He kind of has the bitchy Anakin anger thing going on already.
And this was 75% a reskinned New Hope so I think the odds are good.
On a side note, I really enjoyed the acting in this movie. Pleasantly surprised. The scene where he killed Han was great, felt real. Everyone except Fisher was solid.
>>63900628
Kylo was the best part of the movie desu senpai
>>63905545
But Fisher was the most solid of all, her face hardly even moved
>>63905409
>I don't think kylo was turned because of good intentions
He wasn't I just wish he was because it would have made his reasoning for joining more solid. Darth vader join them to protect his loved ones and stayed because the jedi kind of fucked his shit up even though he was sort of a psychopath in the prequels.
He doesn't seem to have any solid reasoning for joining the dark side initally other than "muh power" and "muh linage" despite him having a legendary uncle who saved the galaxy that would have been a better outlet for his admoration and insight. Him having initial good reasons would have made his struggle a little more solid I guess because he joined the sith for good reasons and thus have good in him.
Though this is the first movie of three so might get explore more but for now it just feels like he joined for very boring and generic reasons that wouldn't be justified in any well defined characters.
>>63905676
>very boring and generic reasons
oh god, that line finn says when the pilot asked why he was helping.. "because it's the right thing to do"
was that it? whatever it was it was so fucking terrible. like how about some mention of not wanting to massacre villagers or something instead.
>>63900628
what boards does kylo browse?
my guess is /v/ and /pol/
>>63905763
>like how about some mention of not wanting to massacre villagers or something instead.
That was already shown, what's the point of a redundant line?
>>63905763
I had to do some background reading and apparently that guy who rubbed the blood on his helmet was his good friend and that in cadet training he had a strong kinship to the people in his unit and often helped one of the weaker members "slip".
His betrayal felt a little random, it honest to god felt like he was like the first fucking person to defect ever. I wish his doubts of the first order were a little more gradual then 1 battle and then bail like in the movie. On here like I said it talks about his doubts during cadet training which would have made his betrayal a lot better.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ygvEeCx.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
The real question is who was the better whiney villain, Nero or Kylo?
>>63905944
because he's saying why he wanted to help. maybe something like stop doing evil shit, or he can't take the senseless death (he had no problem murdering all those grunts in the hangar though), or wanting to be free.. i guess that's all the same as "doing the right thing" but the phrasing just struck me as so cheesy.
>>63905966
>good friend and that in cadet training he had a strong kinship to the people in his unit and often helped one of the weaker members "slip"
that makes sense. you'd think they'd try to condition against forming bonds like that with whatever brainwashing magic they have and not having fixed squad mates.
>His betrayal felt a little random, it honest to god felt like he was like the first fucking person to defect ever. I wish his doubts of the first order were a little more gradual then 1 battle
i don't know, they mentioned he was wiped sometime earlier right? maybe he's a known degenerate and that still lingered in his subconscious, popped out when his buddy died. and that line about using clones instead of humans. they may have had some issues before.
>>63906138
a degenerate in a past life i mean, he did something subversive or had some negative tendencies which caused him to be reset.
i may be reading too much into a few lines and writing fanfaction at this point.
>>63906138
No they said it was his first offense explicitly. I just think doubting your whole nation and everything you fight for should be gradual and not after one fucking thing.
>>63906239
>No they said it was his first offense explicitly
i guess the force did it then.
Adam Driver was great
>>63905763
Did you miss the
>You need a pilot?
>I need a pilot.
part of that scene, I'm pretty sure the implication there was that it was just a convenient time for him to leave and not because of a genuine belief that helping him specifically escape was the right thing to do. I mean that was pretty obviously part of it, but all he wanted to do for the first half of the movie was to escape, not to help the resistance or anything, just to avoid being caught by the first order.
>>63906102
Kylo.
>>63905763
see >>63907042
You do realise that was a joke right?
He didn't care about being right, he just wanted out. He even tries to run away to the outer rim later on in the movie
>>63902010
>Ya'll fags
It's Y'all, also we already had the edgy self insert character in the Force Unleashed games.
>>63900628
Left is just a douche jew.
Right looks like Marilyn Manson's inbred son.
wait
he's still alive
>>63904612
They've already stated that he will redeem himself by the end of the trilogy
>>63907508
>You do realise that was a joke right?
no, i didn't. it fits with all the other humor now that i think about it. maybe because it was the first joke i didn't get it? maybe autistic? idk
>>63907812
Bullshit. There's no way Disney would give away such a crucial part of the end of the trilogy.
>>63900703
Correct
>>63907812
>>63901495
WITH
>>63900628
Kylo by far, turned the movie into a teen flick
>>63905053
Mother of God. Why is she still a thing?
>>63900628
I loved them both to be quite honest.
Mutt was fun. Sure, the swinging with monkeys was stupid, as was the fencing scene, but the soda shop scene and the chase scene were excellent.
In a perfect world, they wouldn't have made Indiana Jones 4. It'd be Mutt Williams and the Crystal Skull. Then, while you're watching it, you slowly come to realize he's maybe Indiana Jones's son. There's subtle hints, like him saying "his dad wasn't always there" or there's artifacts in the house hanging up and he's like "that's my dad's stuff." Then by the end, that's the reveal: Harrison Ford is there as Indiana Jones, his dad (who he knows). You could have a Mutt Williams trilogy of science fiction adventure films.
>>63909999
Meanwhile, for me, Kylo Ren was the best part of that film. He's the one with the most character. He's a young character desperate to fill his grandfather's shoes (or helmet, in this case). He's not the same as Vader, though. He's raw, real, emotional. He's not fully trained, but he's still powerful and deadly. He's overly confident (he is a part of a big legacy). He toys around with Finn and Rey, and suffers for doing both. I love his lightsaber, it's the perfect weapon for his character.
I want to know more. I want to see what drove him away from Luke and toward Snoke and Vader.
Honestly, the guy stole the show for me.
At least Mutt didn't kill Indiana.
