Kylo Ren was the best new character in the movie, Rey was the worst
Prove me wrong
>>63871688
The best new character was probably BB-8 desu
That little orange ball had more character than Rey
>>63871688
I agree
Poe was by far the best. Even the people that hated the movie seemed to like him.
I have to ask, what's wrong with rey?
>I will finish what you started
What did Vader start exactly? He just wanted to be all powerful like the Emperor. Its not like he started a political revolution or a movement. He just helped run the already ruling empire. He comes off as a faggy wannabe instead of a threatening badass villain in his own right
>Betrays Luke, turns to the dark side and kills his own father
Why would anyone do this? This better be answered in the fucking sequels otherwise his character will be even more disappointing than he already is. It SHOULD have been explained before he killed Han. Instead we get a guy we know nothing about, killing his own father for no real reason and at the same time sending off a beloved character like a bitch for Game of Thrones level shock value
>cucked by someone who has never been trained in the force or even held a light sabre before
I knew he was going to lose the second they showed a close up of his blood on the ground. There was no way they were going to let a straight white male win this one. This is where Luke should have come in and saved everyone. It would have saved Kylo's character from embarassment and Rey could have been built up with proper training
People actually liked this guy? You're fucking joking, right?
>>63872058
She doesn't really struggle with anything. She seems to be ridiculously competent at almost everything she does
Kylo and Finn at least have an internal conflict going on, the only thing going on with Rey is muh Jakku
>>63871688
Rey was good. She was pretty much girl!Luke.
>>63871688
You can't day that. You have to say the movie was GOAT otherwise you'll be a salty contrarian
>>63872058
Mary-Sue
ie. it never really feels like she's in danger, she manages to get out of situations easily using skills she magically seems to acquire
I guess it's because she's Luke's daughter or some shit but in the originals, Luke was fairly useless, which actually gave some element of risk.
>>63872111
>Why would anyone do this?
>Be a descendant of the most powerful lineage of force-users
>Have a shitton of expectations placed on you
>Be a naturally tempermental child
>Fail to reach those expectation due to being psychologically a poor fit for the light side
>Feel crushing failure and disappointment
>Get contacted by an alien who tells you you actually have massive potential, but you're following the wrong path
>Turn to the dark side so you could stop feeling like a failure
>Still have pangs of guilt because you're an actual person and not a cardboard cutout
>Try to force the trauma that finally turned Anakin to the dark side completely
>>63872119
She has her whole origin to deal with for fuck's sake.
Poe was also hyper competent (seriously he made Luke and Anakin look like amateurs), is sexy as fuck, and has no internal struggles, but nobody calls him a Mary Sue.
>>63872119
Kylo only says he's conflicted, the movie sure didn't sell it.
Finn was a little better but he too was rushed.
>> 63872119it's not like she faced the biggest sith in the universe, kylo was pretty injured and not fully trained so obviously rey won.
>>63871688
Poe and bb8 were nice
Ford was good ol Ford
Kylo and Finn were meh/ok
Rey was mediocre
>>63872154
>Luke was fairly useless
>destroys the Death Star
>frees Han
>defeats Vader
>useless
>>63872161
Nice fan fic
>>63872058
Boring, she has a good internal conflict, but as a character she has no major flaws the way Kylo or even Finn do. She just seems good at everything she does to the point where I'm not sure how much room there is for improvement. This is in contrast to Ren who is practically the underdog now.
>>63872202
It all flows naturally from the narrative we're presented anon. Why are you asking questions when you don't want to get answers?
Why the fuck is everything green?
>>63872167
Poe was barely in the movie, though. Rey is supposed to be the main character.
>>63872172
You can tell he desperately wants to be Vader cuz he wants to be a badass but he just isn't. He wears a mask for no reason when Vader wore it because he needed to breath, his "lightsaber" seems fucked up and thrown together, he worships Vader's mask, when he removes his mask that heavily contrasts with the "badass" image he tries to show, etc. That's more interesting to me than Rey
>>63872229
Hardly. Ren has his fellow knights + Snoke. Rey has yet to learn her origin and has to confront the Knights soon. Even if she's better than them it's 7v1.
>>63872167
Poe was hyper competent at only flying, and he has lesser screen time and is not a major character, so obviously there isn't any development for him. He was unable to resist Ren and needed help from Finn to escape.
>>63872281
Poe will have a bigger role in the next one, tho.
>>63872294
And Rey was captured by Kylo and needed to be saved by Finn.
>>63872293
Ren having his fellow knights doesn't make Ren himself a deeply flawed and troubled character who has tremendous space to develop. Rey has an internal problem to resolve, but at this point her character is just so competent at everything he does.
>>63872320
Sure, but in the case for Poe it makes sense that he doesn't develop much because he doesn't have much screen time in this particular movie. That doesn't really apply to Rey
Also she ends up saving herself anyways
>>63872320
Rey managed to resist and overcome Ren, something poe never does. And she was escaping fine on her own.
>>63872371
Luke was a laso hyper competent. This is a space fairy tale, the hero is always a special snowflake.
>>63872417
>>63872404
Poe doesn't have the Force, though. And you're forgetting the part where Kylo KOed her with his Tk. She would have been toast if Finn didn't step in and duel Kylo.
>>63872431
Luke was good at flying, and needed help from everyone, it took him 3 movies to face and defeat Vader. The plot just seems to hand Rey whatever abilities she needs.
>>63872431
Luke wasn't hyper competent though. He fucks up constantly and that makes him more human
The first time we see him he needs to be saved by Obi Wan from the Tusken Raiders, then he needs to be saved by Obi Wan again in the cantina. Then when he goes to the Death Star Han and Leia need to constantly protect him.
The only thing he was really competent at was piloting, and even then Han has to save his ass again from Vader and he only makes the shot because of the force, with Obi Wan guiding him.
The appeal to Luke was that he was a normal person who makes mistakes and gradually learns and grows. I don't really see that with Rey. She doesn't have to be Luke 2.0 but there's nothing else interesting about her to compensate for that
>>63872488
I'm not saying Rey is perfect and never makes mistakes, I'm saying that she resolves her problems quickly and efficiently and even if she does make mistakes, they never has as severe consequences as for other characters.
>>63872530
>>63872565
You guys are insane.
Luke outdid every veteran rebel pilot in his first time flying an X-Wing. He saved Leia, not the other way around. He was commander of the rebels by ESB. He managed to hold his own against Vader, the greatest Jedi killer in the galaxy, and even wounded him with under a week of training. He resisted the Dark side when even the chosen one couldn't.
Luke is OP as hell. Now, you could say Rey seemed more competent than ANH Luke, but that's only because Luke was a sheltered farmboy, while lived alone and had to learn to take care of herself.
>>63872161
CRAWLIING IN MY SKIN
Finn (minus banter) > Poe > Ren > Maz > Finn (banter) > TR-8R > Rey
>>63872660
You're exaggerating his accomplishments like crazy
He doesn't do anything spectacular in an X wing that the other rebel pilots can't do, other than aiming the shot to destroy the Death Star (which happened because of help with the Force).
He saves Leia, sure, but only because Han, Chewie, 3PO, and R2 were there to help him. And even after "rescuing" Leia (which ended up being a clusterfuck) he needs her help to escape anyways. He also needs to be saved by R2 in the trash compactor
In Empire Strikes Back he needs Han to save him from the Wampa. Vader completely wrecks him in Empire Strikes Back and he loses one of his hands, and Leia needs to save him from falling to his death.
The point is as I mentioned before, the appeal to Luke was that he was a normal person who makes mistakes, struggles, needs help like anyone else. Then he learns to develop and grow his skills over time. Rey doesn't have to be that, but Rey doesn't seem to have anything else interesting to replace that
>>63872117
>Not liking a guy who literally looks like a young Marilyn Manson
Just fucking kill yourself senpai
>>63872660
I think the issue is that Luke may seem objectively very special, but doesn't eclipse the other main characters. Vader remained very intimidating, Han was very streetwise, and Obi had a Jedi like stature that Luke lacked. There was a great deal of foreseeable development.
Rey is more knowledgeable of the falcon then Han, she humiliates Ren and she saves Finn.
This thread is about why Ren is a better character. Rey seems to be competent at everything to the point where the only development I'm interested in is external to her, her parentage. Ren however still seems to have tremendous room to grow as a character.
>>63871688
You're absolutely right.
>>63871688
>edgelord was the best character
Cool story /pol/. I bet you really relate to his autism, right?
>>63873101
>You have to agree with a character's motivations to like them
How stupid can you be?
>>63873101
We've gotten flawed conflicted heroes before, it's about time we got flawed conflicted villains
>>63871688
> proving a subjective opinion
is anyone on this board NOT a retarded manchild?
English Hitler was better desu. He was alpha as fuck. You could tell Kylo was scared of him. When the omega male, Ben Solo, was talking to his master without his mask he tried his best not to look at Hux because he was embarrassed to be seen like that in his presence.
>>63872837
> not loving finn and poe banter
>>63872167
He has the pure charisma and acting ability to carry it though. I am really hyped for the next film to have him as a main character instead of the supporting character we got.
>>63872660
Luke was good at one thing- piloting- and was gifted with the force, which meant that without training he could use the force as an aiming assistance.
Rey is good at everything and being gifted in the force meant that she was able to unlock all jedi powers and jedi super saiyan state with no training at all
I liked Kylo a lot, he has a whole host of issues which he believes he can solve by acting like a hard-ass and murdering his family. He's sympathetic to some degree but he's also very evidently dangerous and unpredictable. Definitely the most interesting character in the movie.
>Darth Vader emo wannabe
>good
Poe is best character.
>>63873562
>Marvel tier quipman
>"Best Character"
Wew
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE DADDY TOOK AWAY MY TENDIES AGAIN, I'LL SHOW HIM, I'M GONNA SHOOT UP UNCLE LUKES JEDI SCHOOL BECOME A SUPER COOL KNIGHT OF REN REEEEEEEEE
this one sentence is all you need to sum up Kylo Ren as a character
>>63873337
Finn/Poe worked decently, with Poe's cockiness bringing a little bit of the same out of Finn. Outside of those situations, Finn's banter is characteristic of a modern comedy character, not a raised-from-birth Stormtrooper who panicked and deserted the Order after watching his friend die in his arms.
The "WHO'S IN CHARGE NOW" bit with his former commanding officer was the most cringeworthy. The only people Finn has ever socialized with were such stoic, dedicated soldiers that they want to kill Finn for betraying their principles. Who did Finn pick up this sophomoric, peacocking attitude from?
>>63873205
Domhall did a fantastic job but the thing that irked me was that he "trained all (or at least most) of his stormtroopers so there is no need to go back to clones" despite barely looking like in his 20s.
>>63874046
I wonder if he'll go over to the other side if they start using clones again. He seemed adamant about keeping his system in place
>>63874086
what do you mean other side?
>>63874196
Rebels? Maybe some superior Imperial group
>>63872195
>>defeats Vader
Vader dies saving Luke from Sheev.
>>63872293
She has Luke Skywalker to train her already mary sue ass...
I may be jaded, but most of the delivery of lines between Rey and Finn/Rey and everyone else reminded me of theater classes I took in high school.
So much feigned enthusiasm and trying to "act."
It didn't feel good at all.
I don't understand what's to like about Kylo Ren? Am I fucking jaded or something?
I liked Jurassic World. That's not must be it.
>>63871688
Seriously though, did anyone actually like kylo as a character? I thought he was many times worse than anakin and destroyed the movie.
>>63874338
i'm not him but he defeated him in the duel and then paused after he chopped off his other arm. he was on the ground defeated with no lightsaber and awaiting death.
>>63874401
Pretty much everyone is saying their acting was amazing - you might just be ridiculously cynical
>>63874494
>looks cool
>cool lightsaber
>the most interesting backstory so far that we know of
>is shown to be powerful but still very flawed
He's the only character in the new movie that's not boring.
>>63874494
He's a character with real flaws that fucked up his life, even just that is really rare to see in blockbuster movies.
He's an actually conflicted villain.
He's a much fresher, more relevant view of evil than the overpowered badass dark lord.
He has a lot of room to grow, I'm excited to see where his arc will go.
>>63874614
>Everyone
alright fuck off dude
>>63874594
The fact that Vader sacrificed himself to save Luke is evidence that he probably was never trying to kill him and probably not going all out to beat Luke in the duel.
Why did Kylo Ren start thumping his chest like a gorilla when he saw Finn?
>>63874654
he's autisticI do the same thing when I get angry
>>63874617
this
the other options are miss perfect or mr comedic relief
I seriously hope kylo gets heaps of power from the anger from losing that fight and absolutly fucks shit up in the next episode.
If they turn him into vegeta and never gets a victory im gonna be pissed.
>>63874654
He was attempting to communicate in Finns native language.
>>63874654
he was trying to communicate with him
he didn't know finn was capable of human speech
>>63874494
internal conflict and i'm kinda biased because i just love Adam Driver's acting. watch scenes with him in other movies on youtube. he has the semi-autistic charismatic no-filter personality going on for him in every one of his roles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKw-Pgu0SRM
i watch Girls solely based for Adam. the show is about severely flawed and hypocritical women being guided by men.
>>63874617
>>63874633
He was fucking dork. Helmet should've stayed on until his meeting with Han Solo.
>>63874654
I'm sad that the shot with Ren activating his lightsaber like that was never in the movie.
>>63874654
he got shot in the chest and wanted to feel the pain crawling in his skin but even though he tried it all fell apart in the end it didn't even matter
>>63874654
he was forcing himself to feel physical pain to channel "the dark side". it was appropriate because that's practically his whole backstory.
>>63874894
forgot to add: he was bashing the wound where chewbacca's one-shot crossbow shot him.
>>63874494
He's a darksider who is tempted toward the light side, rather than the other way around.
He's a big Sith weeb and wannabe Vader who consciously tries to fabricate a "Vader-like" persona
Whereas Vader would react to disappointment by coolly force-choking a space nazi and walking away, Ren is neurotic and succumbs to fits of disturbing but impotent rage. We see two common stormtroopers just turn 180 degrees and walk away when they hear him flipping out. There is this tension between his laughable insecurity and his frightening capriciousness.
and he has a pretty cool lightsaber gimmick.
>>63872154
THIS IS NOT WHAT MARY SUE MEANS
MARY SUE IS THIS PLUS A SELF INSERT
GODDAMNIT
>>63874678
kek
>>63875154
this is true
the real problem with Rey is that she is boring and doesn't have a personality.
>>63875154
Jew Jew's self insert.
Just like Luke was Lucas's self insert.
>>63872837
Maz is fucking God-tier.
>>63872320
>And Rey was captured by Kylo and needed to be saved by Finn.
Did we watch the same movie? Because she was pretty on her way on escaping before reluctantly meeting Finn
>>63875154
She does also kinda feel like a self-insert if you think about it.
Like she's a star wars fan transported into the movie, who knows everything because she went on wookieepedia and made herself a jedi.
>>63872320
she escaped by herself though
>>63872111
Darth Vader brought order to the galaxy until his kids fucked it up. The Empire enjoyed two decades of absolute peace and prosperity.
>>63872117
As a character? Yeah. It was a fun idea to have a whiny edgy teenager turned up to the max.
>>63872320
>Poe will have a bigger role in the next one, tho.
He'sFinn'slove interest
>>63875579
they'd actually do it, the absolute madmen
>>63872111
He killed Han because he was struggling with whether he was going to return to his family or continue with the Dark side. Did you watch the movie?
If any of you are upset that Rey won the lightsaber fight you're retarded. It was shown earlier in the movie that she's proficient with melee weapons, and she's obviously strong in the force. If you watch the fight it's not very pretty or fluid like the duels from the prequels, which means they haven't been trained very well with lightsabers which makes sense because there's not really anyone left in the galaxy that can teach them to fight besides Luke and Snoke, and Snoke said that Kylo hadn't finished his training.
Sorry for this autism I just knew people would be upset about this while I was watching the movie.
>>63872119
She's competent because she has survived on her own for years and had to be competent or die. Also, she's the daughter of Luke fucking Skywalker.
>>63872294
Well a non-force sensitive pilot was never gonna be able to resist a force user delving into his mind
>>63875824
Not to mention the obvious fact that Kylo just ate a blaster shot from chewie to his torso.
Finn
>I'm a pussy rogue Stormtrooper, and even though I was raised from birth to be a faceless space marine trooper I have the personality of a high school football player from Tampa.
Rey
>I'm an inspiring role model for girls! Look at how capable I am!
Poe
>I'm one-third Han Solo, one-third Wedge Antilles, and one-third Memelord.
Ren
>I'm obsessed with being a badass ancient Sith Lord but my parents raised me with this pesky conscience. I wear a dehumanizing mask and pray to Darth Vader every night so I can rid myself of positive feelings and become a true piece of shit. I'm too insecure and chaotic to be a fearful tyrant; everyone is afraid of me but secretly has no respect for me.
>>63875824
If Rey won using the force in an undirected manner I would ne ok. I just think its a stretch that a scavenger would have more experience and skill with a lightsaber then someone who has been training for years.
The biggest issue is that this just reduces tension and makes Rey development seem much less interesting. If she can use the force and her lightsaber so proficiently, added to all her other abilities, the room for any development seems very shallow. Sure she still has the mystery about her past, but that's external to her character.
>>63874654
Using the pain to strengthen his connection to the Dark Side.
Kylo Ren is kind of fucking insane if you haven't noticed.
Rey is Obi wans grandchild, relative or something. i'm sure.
>>63871688
>Mother is a Princess
>Father is Legendary Smuggler and Rebel fighter
>Uncle is the last Jedi
>Grandfather was apparently the most powerful Jedi/Sith in the universe
>Sucks at the force
That's a lot of weight on his shoulders, no wonder he went crazy in the search for ultimate power and control.
>>63875866
>She's competent because she has survived on her own for years and had to be competent or die
yeah, and that's boring because she never really seems to struggle and there's no development or anything else to it other than that
>Also, she's the daughter of Luke fucking Skywalker.
that means jack shit, luke was the son of Anakin, didn't stop him from getting his ass beat
Why the fuck did Rey already know what a Jedi mind trick was? I could look past the mind reading because she was face to face with Ren and it makes sense that she could naturally start to perceive his thoughts. But the Jedi mind trick is a trick; it's an unconventional exploitation of the force.
It wasn't even like she came up with her own trick that was roughly similar to the one we are familiar with; she intuited the exact same technique and syntax that Obi Wan used. It really seemed like an ass pull.
>>63872195
He was trained by not one, but two fucking jedi masters. Rey just magically learns the force and fighting with a light saber on her own. Even before then she fights off a bunch of guys without any need for help. Too much magical strong empowered woman trope.
>>63877012
I'm just as mad as you about it, but I guess thinking about it once you've read someones mind the next thing you'd try is to speak to them via it, right? Maybe it was just a lucky guess.
>>63872117
thank god his hair in the movie covered those elephant ears jesus christ
>>63871688
anakin skywalker compressed into one movie instead of three.
>>63877327
And it worked out better
>>63873701
That's a pretty awesome charachter tbqh with you senpai.
>>63875348
Why?
>>63874654
>That jedi aura
You /pol/tards can say whatever you want but you know that moment was badass
>>63877012
She had heard legends of Jedi, and the Jedi mind trick is the most synonymous use of the force.
>>63874654
he's forcing his body to comply despite being wounded. And it helps him deal with the pain of the injury.
>>63877012
she figured it out after getting interrogated (and mind-fucked) by Ren
>>63871688
Rey was the worst, but I don't think she was awful, just boring. BB-8 was GR-8, Kylo was interesting and Finn + Poe looks to be the Luke +Biggs relationship we never had.
>>63873138
are you seriously implying that flawed conflicted villains aren't commonplace in cinema? Watch more movies dude holy shit
>>63871688
Literally every new character (bar 2) that got something in this movie was taken from another source
Finn
>not Kyle Katarn
Rey
>not Jaina Solo but with 100000x more bullshit Mary Sue
Kylo Ren
>not edgy Jacen
BB-8
>not Rolie Polie Olie
Poe
>not Han Solo the Younger
Phasma
>not Boba
These character were 100% original
Snoke
>gets to speak for a gran total of 5 minute
>we know nothing about him, his past, or his future intentions
>LULZ WAIT 4 EPISODE 8
Maz
>she gets alot of speech time
>anytime we try to get backstory about her
>LULZ THATS A STORY FOR ANOTHER TIME
Fuck this movie
