Can you simply do a gender swap on the classic "hero's journey" and it retains the same mythic qualities? Or is the heroine's journey intrinsically different
![I+have+laughed+out+loud+3+times+today+on+funny+_a607d8d37ca3f4f838a16cffc4f781be[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/yDhuOQx.gif "I+have+laughed+out+loud+3+times+today+on+funny+_a607d8d37ca3f4f838a16cffc4f781be[1].gif")
>asking thoughtful questions on /tv/
>>63839820
It's the same thing, that's why they're called archetypes.
>>63839820
The monomyth is a good backbone for a story no matter the gender of the character on the journey. Look at disney's Mulan, or the Princess and the Frog.
>>63839820
I think the journey still works when it is genderswapped.
I guess the genderswap itself might not make sense in some settings, but I imagine the jorney still would.
>>63839820
No I think it is a fundamentally male concept, it comes down to our very sexual desires and practices, a girl's attractiveness as a mate comes down predominantly to qualities she's born with like her looks and sense of grace hence they're the princess (who simply inherits their title)
Guys have to assert themselves as confident and powerful to appear attractive hence the hero arch has a deeper connection with their gendered role
I don't mean "can it be done" but would it resonate as much if it's a female? I guess "resonate" is hard to measure
"Classic" heroine journies seem to be fairy tales like goldilocks (where she gets eaten by bears at the end) or little red ridding hood (where she gets eaten by the wolf)
In terms of movies it seems like the woman is a victim (ex: she gets raped) and then kills everyone
>>63840233
>I don't mean "can it be done" but would it resonate as much if it's a female? I guess "resonate" is hard to measure
I guess it resonates less.
As previous anon put it:
>Guys have to assert themselves as confident and powerful to appear attractive hence the hero arch has a deeper connection with their gendered role
We love the hero because he asserts himself, while we love the heroine regardless if she asserts himself, so when it is a man it might resonate more.
![7147a166-abf3-4db4-8449-3cfabbcceb08_560_420[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bdy0eIJ.jpg "7147a166-abf3-4db4-8449-3cfabbcceb08_560_420[1].jpg")
>>63840233
it won't resonate as much.
Wizard of Oz, Titanic and Gone With The Wind are how you write female-protagonist stories. They're about growing up and coping with loss, not demonstrations of physical prowess, and they end with the woman needing no man without invalidating the emotions of the love story.
The main characters get to be both strong and weak (and also cunty) at appropriate times in the story as they gain self-reliance. They're actual strong female characters.
>>63839820
Well, since the only thing a chick has to do in real life is say "hey hero, you'll maybe get a kiss if you solve all this shit for me", I'd say it's a bit different.
![The-Girl-King[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/udDBXSi.jpg "The-Girl-King[1].jpg")
Don't know, as a foreigner the entire thing feels forced to me. I prefer males in hero roles, but I still plan to watch this movie
Certain hollywood and western groups really like to push the idea that women are exactly the same as men and should have the same interests or feelings and that suggesting otherwise is biggotry.
>>63840780
>as a foreigner
To what
The HJ is a lazy default plot for writers who can't be bothered to do anything interesting on the story front. Pretty much any variation/subversion will work as well (i.e. will be tolerably mediocre in the right light).
>>63840823
foreigner to hollywood and western countries. "values" I suppose
>>63840780
Isn't that movie based on a true story?
>>63839820
you've touched upon the reason why the Xenomorph had to have a manly (i.e. titless) physique.
not complaining too much because she is fucking TIGHT
>>63840899
what aglibpost
>>63839993
>Look at disney's Mulan, or the Princess and the Frog.
Both terrible.
>>63839820
Why didn't he do it?
>>63839993
Mulan is a terrible example. The entire movie shouts SEE GIRLS CAN BE JUST AS GOOD AS BOYS!!
>>63841220
At least it is in a setting where she has to assert herself to be respected.
>>63840823
Earth
>>63840899
How about this:
>Hero already is a hero, and has everything he's ever wanted in his life: family, friends, fortune, everything (except faith)
>Hero is called into action once more
>Hero's only regret is that he never caught his nemesis, the villain
>the Hero and the Villain meet
>Villain overpowers the Hero
>Hero falls
>Hero gets back up and intends to find the Villain and stop him
>Hero finds out that his whole life and all his "heroic deeds" have been a lie
>Hero intends to work alone on this new journey home to find the truth and set his personal world free
>Hero finds that he needs friends to help him while still being an individual following his own way
>Hero learns why the Villain does what he does through his own experiences and past life
>Hero learns that it was forlove, the same reason he did all he did
>Hero has come all this way thinking he was doing it without faith and learns that because he had faith all along, he was able to keep going
>Hero goes home to save the day/stop the Villain
>Hero and Villain make up
>Hero goes to stop the real antagonist, his past ideologies
>Hero finds the truth and how he had a choice all along, as his friends did
>Hero decides not to "red-pill" the world and lets them decide their own fate
>Hero finds that the only other option is to stay behind
>Hero gives up and his family's safety is guaranteed
>Hero gets back in the loop and becomes the Villain again
>The End
Has their been a study on heroine's journey ?
Hopefully not done by a feminist
>>63841410
gay
>>63841441
Yes, here it is: >>63840519
The alternative to that is whore's journey which is pretty much every single female-oriented book ever written (Pride and Prejudice, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, etc etc).
>>63841410
a bit self-aware for my taste, but at least it's something.
But Rey wasn't a swap of the Hero's journey. She's a total badass who can fight two men at once at the beginning of the story and is amazing and skilled at everything she does.
Women can't do the Hero's journey because screewriters just can't make them get punched in the tits.
I don't know why. I don't know why the west is so incapable of giving women traits like harmartia and pathos, but every woman in western fiction is Joss Whedonized
read Robert Johnson's book "SHE"
its about female psychology and myth.
it turns out men and women are different.
Rey will end up like Lightning from Final Fantasy.
They can make her a badass but she'll never be a great character no matter how much they push it.
Even this new Star Wars needs the old cast, namely Han Solo and Luke, to get that hype up. The male hero will remain the draw.
>>63841737
It's so easy to make a good female fighting type character
Have her eat a little shit every now and then. Remind the audience that she's human but also show that she's tough enough to overcome failure
But I guess audiences don't want that
I guess they just want a super human badass who beats up everyone instantly because she's a badass
