>Luke, did I ever tell you that Jedi powers and abilities are completely genetic and require no training at all? You can literally use any force power without even knowing if they are a real technique; you just have to think about something and it'll happen
>There was no reason at all to train all those decades to become a Jedi Knight. Qui-Gon was a good friend
>implying if you are force sensitive and want to mind trick anyone there is literally anymore to it than just centering yourself and thinking about it.
its not like she force pushed, or force freezed like Kylo
>>63830594
Of course he did. He used to force to blow up the death star and could do feats like return his saber to him in the opening of Emire without any training. Unless Obi Wan repeating the phrase "use the force, Luke" counts as training.
>>63830594
cuck facsimile
>>63830594
>separating the force into discrete powers
You fucked up OP, get that EU/video game shit out of here.
Besides, the jedi/sith dichotomy is about philosophy not power levels. So no, you don't need to practice mind tricks over and over to get better at them. Luke doesn't practice stacking rocks with his mind on Dagobah because he's mastering telekinesis. He's practicing keeping his mind clear while doing this shit.
I think you missed the point of the force entirely.
>>63830594
>That's not how the force works.
>>63831106
Jedi Mind Tricks are literally one of the hardest skills to learn and master for any Jedi. The fact she could use it without even waving her hand like that was required in established canon also shows they have no fucking idea what they are doing.
This new canon is being created by literal "I'm such a nerd xDD" people that played Star Wars Lego and thought they had delved in as deep as they could.
>>63830594
The Skywalkers are literally all Mary Sues because they're the apex of Force power potential.
>>63830594
Why didn't old Obi-Wan ever mention Qui-Gon? He was his apprentice and learned the force ghost secret from him between III and IV but he only talking about Anakin and shit.
>>63831743
>Jedi Mind Tricks are literally one of the hardest skills to learn and master for any Jedi.
How do you know?
>>63831743
don't forget the jedi mind meld
>>63831970
Because otherwise Luke would have been using it to get his way with everything in New Hope, and even Qui-Gon had a hard time using it on multiple occasions. It's also mentioned as such in Clone Wars and Rebels which are canon.
>Luke could barely even use Force Pull in Empire after fucking around with the Force for a few years. Had to be trained by Yoda to use it, and even then he was shit at it
>Rey was able to not only out-Force Pull a properly trained Sith/Dark Jedi, but defeat him in a lightsaber fight when she'd never even picked up a saber before and had no idea on fighting stances or dueling techniques
>Against the guy who killed the entire new Jedi Order
How the fuck can people defend this kind of shit? New Star Wars fans are literally worse than the EU scum, and that's saying something.
>>63831484
Disney kept prequels as canon, in the prequels younglings are trained in force sensing before puberty in order to become Jedi with age.
Same thing happened with Anakin.
Luke was a prodigy and he still had to push himself incredibly hard with the help of two Jedi masters.
There is no other case within the new canon of people being able to simply tap into the force without training, Anakin was the "chosen one" and he didn't do shit without being trained first.
Also consider Leia was supposedly just as force capable as Luke but she never uses the force at all because she was never trained, even though she was constantly put into dangerous situations where they'd be useful.
>>63832265
>she'd never even picked up a saber before
and who has?
>and had no idea on fighting stances or dueling techniques
neither did Kylo
but she already showed she had fighting skill
>>63832386
>she never uses the force
She sensed whenSolo died
>>63832726
Are you retarded? Kylo was trained by Skywalker... He slaughtered an entire order of Jedi much like Vader did.
Rey knew how to fight with a stick. It'd be like giving a stick-fighting master a long sword and then expecting him to be able to take down a knight 1-on-1. They are completely different weapons with different weighting, lengths, etc.
Please consider your opinions before posting them in future.
>>63831934
He was not a good friend.
>>63833087
>Padme sensed when Anakin turned full Sith and fought Obi-Wan and lost
>She literally lost the will to live because of this
Now come on faggot, please try harder.
>>63833346
This, there more things,plotholes like the fact that Finn was trained all his life to kill and be a stormtrooper and on the first mission he deserts like wtf,not to count that hi got his ass kicked by a girl with no military training like him
>>63833346
shhh did you not see they tried to cover that up by showing how injured he was.
>>63833627
>Taking anything from the prequels as canon
Now come on faggot, please try harder.
>>63833785
Did you also not notice how uber-powerful his injuries made him by constantly punching his open wounds to make himself more angry, and hence more powerful?
Sith gain their power from pain and suffering. He was literally constantly buffing himself throughout the fight.
>>63833346
But Kylo was a sperg with his powers, Rey had more focus
>>63833944
>punching his open wounds to make himself more angry
This meme needs to die right here and now.
He wasn't trying to hurt himself for more power or some shit, he was just trying to numb the pain and keep his leg from sleeping.
But even in the original trilogy the use of the force was partially genetic (hence why Luke was able to fight Vader despite his lack of training)
>>63834110
What the fuck are you even talking about?
>Coruscant and a bunch of other worlds just got blown the fuck up
>Resistance don't seem to give a fuck
>a used car dealer on the ass end of the galaxy is unaffected by the jedi mind trick of a jedi master
>rey succeeds at using the jedi mind trick on a soldier trained to fight jedi after learning about the force earlier that morning
>not a mary rey sue
wew. sequel fans are trying too hard to suck that disney cock. who do I need to contact to shitpost and counter-shitpost online for money?
why didn't he teach luke that force sprint?
>>63834320
>trained to fight jedi
nigga the jedi were nearly extinct
>>63832386
>Disney kept prequels as canon, in the prequels younglings are trained in force sensing before puberty in order to become Jedi with age.
The entire point of the prequels is that jedi were too up their own ass to understand that they were doing things wrong.
That's also the entire point of Qui-Gon Jinn. He's the type of jedi you'd find in the OT, the type that rolls with the force as things unfold and is not bound by protocol or rules like the jedi order.
On a more basic level it's the difference between institutionalized religion and being "spiritual".
>>63834262
well they destroyed the fucking thing
>>63834320
Toydarians are strong-willed.
>>63834374
Then why did Tray Tor have an anti-light saber weapon?
>>63830594
Alec Guinness must be spinning in his grave
>>63831743
Can someone post the source of this sheev pic? I think it was a magazine or something?
>>63832265
>fighting stance
Take your EU with you to the grave
, welcome to the new galaxy
Luke, did I ever tell you about my master, Yoda? He was my master, but not really. My actual master was some guy everyone forgot about. I just went to Jedi School and Yoda taught me on Wednesdays and Fridays about the force. "Do, or do not - there is no try," was his catchphrase and he said it to every youngling several times in the academy. He was also trained by a guy whose name was K'ungfu. I'm not making this up this is actually stuff in the EU, Luke. He was a good friend.
>>63832117
Mind tricks just work with weak or dumb people, such as some Stormtroopers.
It's almost like you're trying to find any excuse you can to shit on the new movie to fit your "le Disney is bad" agenda.
>>63832386
>>63833627
I can tell who hasn't seen these movies. Do you forget when Luke and Leia spoke to each other through the force at the end of Empire? How Leia was able to tell exactly where Luke was? Her sensing Han is an extension of that.
Leia has NEVER been trained
>>63834445
they are evil pig police weapons from space. Literally Black Lives Matter shit.
>>63834262
Again, it's so obvious people were busy shitposting or something during the movie. The planets destroyed were Hosnian Prime and Hosnian system, not Coruscant, you fucking mong
>>63834586
holy fuck
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/K'ungfu
>>63834445
probably a general melee weapon. there's literally no reason for them to be trained against jedi since the only one supposedly left was Luke
>>63834505
There are fighting stances in literal every single Star Wars movie with actual Jedi in them. The different fighting stances are even shown by Mace, Kit Fisto, Dooku, and multiple times by Obi-Wan.
Please go back to Facebook and like more pictures of 16 year old girls with Star Wars quotes.
>>63831982
Do you think jedi sex is similar to Vulcan sex?
SHE IS LITERALLY REVAN
JUST WAIT FOR IT
>>63834616
She literally had no idea what a mind trick was. Why would she think her powers would even let her influence others, let alone the fact that if any of this was true, Luke would have been able to influence Uncle Owen to let him spend time with his friends.
Uncle Owen was a fucking moisture farmer, not some PhD lecturer on biophysics.
>>63832117
Qui-Gon used it on Watto, but it failed because toydarians are immune to the Jedi mind trick. It also only works on the gullible and wek-minded.
>>63834740
it involves force-pulling your partner to orgasm. touching is not required
that is how the Jedi Order were able to maintain their vows of celibacy for a thousand genera- I mean years.
>That is why you fail
Tell me, faggots, what was the "that" Yoda was referring to.
Was it Luke's lack of training?
>>63832265
>>Against the guy who killed the entire new Jedi Order
Weren't they all kids?
>>63831934
Obi-Wan's memory was shit.
>>63834678
And this is why EU will never be canon and should be forgotten forever.
>>63834913
his lack of faith
>>63834914
Dont you mean younglings
>>63834678
>>63834586
>Kanan Jarrus, as Caleb Dume, often heard Yoda counsel "Do, or do not. There is no try."
Bravo Jorgé.
>>63834836
Yeah, she must have never heard of the Jedi or what they were capable of doing. Like, never. Oh wait, she actually says she has beforehands in the movie. Welp.
>Uncle Owen was a fucking moisture farmer, not some PhD lecturer on biophysics.
"I have no idea how to differenciate between smart people and people with a degree. They're literally the same thing to me.
>>63834964
Oh, so you mean Yoda implied that if someone who is force sensitive simply believes in themselves and the force enough, they can do incredible acts of the force without formal training?
Huh.
>>63835047
some how this shit reminded me of the ending in "Elf"
>>63835047
Do or do not, there is no try.
Meaning that if you are strong with the force then your mind is it's only limit. Jedi Training is done to focus the mind in order to overcome those limits.
>>63830594
They're not genetic, Rey isn't related to any known force user. Kylo Ren was the one with a genetic tie to powerful force users and ended up being a total fuckup who got outclassed by the random girl who better understood the Force than he did
>>63835230
And if your mind is naturally full of belief, y'know, like someone who believes their parents will return despite a decade of being stranded by them on a desert planet, those limits may already be minimal.
>>63835047
You realize he was talking to someone with whom he spent weeks training to use the force, and realized in that moment the kid learned almost nothing.
>>63830594
If you haven't figured out by now that Rey was trained in the force, by Luke, as a child then dropped of on Jakkuu to protect her when the Solo boy became Kylo Ren and started fucking shit up then you are an idiot and don't deserve these new movies.
>>63831934
It's almost as if they made him up for Phantom Menace or something.
DUDE MIDICHLORIANS
>>63835373
And his weeks of training were irrelevant because Luke was a fucking cynic by that point.
If Rey believes she can do this shit, then she can do it. That's literally it.
>>63835253
oh holy fuck. Two things for everyone here:
1. Rey is Luke's kid. (who do think her family was? You know, the one who left her suddenly?)
2. Kylo Ren more or less gave Rey her first training by trying to mind-read her. She resisted, and figured out how the mind-manipulation techniques basically work. This is solid theory.
>>63835374
That would imply that everyone on Jakku is on in the little secret. Because her and Ben aren't that different in age.
>>63835374
thank. you.
>>63835444
Except Luke was being taught how to use the Force in all that time.
Rey learned about the Force halfway into the movie and is pulling off feats that took Luke three movies to master. Oh, but she believed in herself, so that explains it.
>>63834773
That's fucking retar-
What a minute. That could be legit. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised. I think you're close to right.
>>63835495
How? She was sold into slavery as a scabber. Literally like every other slave on the planet.
>Luke starts training fully grown
>Immediately begins to deflect blasters while blindfolded
You realize that's the equivalent of some guy walking up to a piano the first time and learning to play it like a kid who's been doing it for 3 years, right? Sure. It's no Mozart, but it's just as unbelievable.
>>63832265
Didn't she defeat those guys in Jakku with her stick?
>>63831332
It kind of does, because only through his training could Luke sense his former master.
>>63835412
Rey must be sweating and dripping with midichlorians.
>>63835525
>taught how to use the Force
Know, he was being taught how to overcome his incredulity and believe in his own natural ability. Otherwise there wouldn't be a whole fuckign scene where he fails to use the force literally just because he doesn't believe in himself.
>>63835374
>If you don't believe this completely fan-made explanation about Rey's inexplicable abilities, then you have no argument.
Got it
>>63835495
how does that imply what you say it does? No one had to explain anything to anyone when they dumped Rey off. No one on Jakku even knows Kylo Ren as Ben, if they know of him at all, other than some vague First Order association.
>>63835537
But it shows her getting dropped off at a super young age. When did Solo go rogue? Couldn't have been when he was fucking 7.
>>63835537
this.
>>63832265
Kylo Ren is not a properly trained Sith. snoke: "it's time to complete his training."
>>63835539
Did they ever state how long the flight between Tatooine and the Death Star was?
>>63831970
They had only being used by masters in all the movies, that's how you know.
>>63835477
>(who do think her family was? You know, the one who left her suddenly?)
some randoms who just left her there because they didn't care about her?
>>63835656
No sith has finished their training until they have killed their master.
>>63835587
What are we even arguing at this point?
Luke, despite being taught of the Force and shown how to wield it, fails because of his lack of faith in himself.
Rey, having no knowledge of the Force up until 20 minutes ago, is suddenly pulling off moves we have only seen Jedi Masters do just because she believes in herself.
Do you not see the difference there? And why that may be considered an issue with the movie/character?
>>63830594
Rey is already well trained. Her memory was erased by Luke. Her urge to stay on Jakku was programmed into her to keep her hidden from snoke but was nullified by her awakening.
>>63835656
I don't get this. Properly trained =/= completely trained. You can be a high-level belt at BJJ or other martial art and have a huge advantage over the untrained, but you're not quite at a black belt level.
>>63835684
for fucks sake. You're just wrong.
>>63835722
I wish people would stop parroting this as if it were fact.
>>63831332
Luke was being trained in a New Hope, mongo.
>>63831970
Its literally used in the beginning of Return of the Jedi to show that Luke has reached a new level.
>>63835710
all she did was the force pull for the saber, and a mind trick. Like i said, when kylo tried to probe/break her mind, she successfully resisted and it more or less taught her how the mind-control stuff works. And you know, maybe she had heard about jedi mind-tricks. Jabba and anyone else watching Luke fail to mind trick Jabba would lead one to believe that it's at least feasible that Jedi mind-tricks are part of the mythos and legends surrounding the Jedi.
>>63835710
>suddenly pulling off movies we have only seen Jedi Masters do
I don't know if it's canon, but things like Force Ghosts, Force Visions, Mind Tricks, etc, were things ALL Jedi could do in the Old Republic. It wasn't until the Jedi became complacent, arrogant assholes that they lost a lot of their natural abilities and only the strongest retained them.
If the Force is awakening, it would make sense that she's extremely powerful even without formal training.
>an issue with the movie/character
It's a slight incongruity and can be explained somewhat easily by in-universe factors. Did she show too much power for someone so untrained for my taste? Sure. Did it bother me so much that it affected how I liked the character or the movie? No.
>>63835883
>maybe she had heard about jedi mind-tricks
Holy christ, how many straws are you going to grasp?
>>63835710
So she suddenly has greater faith in use of the force than Luke, after how much it's saved his life up until Dagobah?
Jedi training? Nonsense. You can master the Jedi mind trick within mere seconds and beat even skilled Lightsaber users merely by picking it up.
>>63835962
none motherfucker. That's solidly feasible. She's heard all the myths about Luke Skywalker, so it's not a stretch to think that people in general kinda know what the Jedi can do.
>>63835895
I wouldn't mind if she had overpowered Ren with a burst of undirect force, I just don't like her sudden proficiency with the lightsabre.
I like her character, and I'm interested in her development and backstory, but I don't like how she manages to solve every problem with ease and how even when she does fail, the consequences aren't as severe as for other characters.
>>63832265
>a properly trained Sith/Dark Jedi
It's a stated fact in the film that Ren wasn't finished with his training.
>>63836028
>I have seen this guy pilot a jetplane
>Now I can do it too with zero training
>>63836046
That's a valid complaint. Hopefully they knock her down a peg next movie.
>>63836046
>I like her character
What? Out of every single new character present, she was literally the worst.
>>63836081
terrible analogy. She did more than watch people do things, her mind was probed, and she resisted it. She's fucking Luke Skywalker's kid, so yeah, she miiiight just have a little bit of natural ability with it.
>>63836094
Going forward, the only way forward for Rey is down. They literally made her Space Jesus, that there is no way for her character development to improve except drop first.
>>63836028
>it's not a stretch
That's what I'm arguing. You're filling in the gaps with your own theories, which is not a strong argument. The movie relies on the audience and their knowledge of the lore to make sense of all the stuff that's unexplained. That's not how to write a good character.
>>63836081
She goes from riding a galactic golf cart, to flying a cargo aircraft just by learning from her scavenging...wat.
>>63836155
And Kylo is Leia's kid aka Luke's TWIN sister. He isn't that far off genetically in DUDE MIDICHLORIANS counts vs her. Except he got trained by Luke and Snork.
>>63836113
you're not going to be very happy with future episodes. Rey's the protagonist here.
>>63833346
>He slaughtered an entire order of Jedi
There is very much a possibility that I remember it wrong. And in which case, sorry. But do they actually say that he killed all of Luke's students, and not just imply that he did?
>>63836181
All Skywalkers have a natural piloting ability. This is one of the few things I could accept about her character. Anakin does it, Luke does it, Rey doing it is no surprise. The rest I can't accept.
>>63834320
>soldier trained to fight jedi
They didn't know Rey had force powers until after the guard had already arrived.
>>63836216
She isn't the only protagonist senpai.
>>63836165
I would imagine while they'll deviate from the specific nostalgia-esque plot, they'll still retain the general plot of the second movie being a big win for the Empire.
>>63836225
Han mentions one of Luke students destroying his new trainees and Rey's visions or flashbacks shows the Knights of Ren lead by Kylo standing over the dead bodies of Jedis.
>>63836322
This is literally the OT v2.0. I fucking hope not. I can stand and understand TFA being ANH 2.0 but if VIII is Empire strikes back 2.0, this new trilogy is literally fucking shit.
>>63836167
i see. You're arguing cinematic technique. That's fine. Abrams, et. al., are competent enough to know what they're doing, despite your agreement with their style/technique. They know that they're leaving those gaps to fill in, but it's not a difficult thing to do, and all the information one needs to correctly fill those gaps is present in the series as a whole. It's not a particularly difficult set of gaps to fill, is my point. If you want characters that leave nothing the the imagination, who have all their cards layed out in a clear pattern, that's your perrogitive, but it's by design in this case, not neglect.
>>63836382
>into darkness was wrath of khan 2.0
I wonder what this sequel is going to be?
>>63836418
JJ isn't directing the sequel.
>establish that Rey is a skilled combatant with a staff
>can't believe she would be proficient with a lightsaber, too
This is the worst argument I see on this board.
>>63836330
Destroying does not necessarily mean killed, and bodies does not have to mean all of the students (or maybe just other people in disguise)I do not believe in my own arguments. But there are reasons to keep in mind that we do not know everything regarding everything in the film. Mickey Mouse might have some great plan as to why Ray easily can defeat Ren
>>63834586
>Do, or do not - there is no try
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
So Yoda was secretly training Siths the entire time?
>>63836560
>Mickey Mouse might have some great plan as to why Ray easily can defeat Ren
Gurl power is the latest meme
I think it's sad and a major loss for the story and intrigue that the force caused. If just any fucking random peasant can use the force it will start losing it's meaning, being able to control the force on the light side used to be a sign of discipline on the dark side it meant you possessed great power. A huge chunk of the plot get's lost by making these dumb as decisions, i'd rather have Finn, Solo and Chewie come to the rescue to get the dumb bitch out instead of her using the force and escaping killing an entire plot line to JUST RUN INTO THE TEAM THAT WAS GOING TO SAVE HER ANYWAY.
>>63832265
He wasn't a sith and he was injured.
>>63836476
Its a stretch to say that a scavenger with skill in a staff will automatically acquire the lightsabre proficiency needed to overwhelm a person who has been training for years.
>>63836476
They're nothing alike. Weight, balance, stances.
One awkward movement and there goes her leg.
>>63835639
luke was afraid to kill a youngling the poetry awakens.
>>63836612
"Meme" is the latest meme. And girl power have been a thing for a while now.
>>63834773
So she's gonna win the war by turning anyone that fights with her into a fearless berserker and discover, at the last moment, that the space nazis were right and evil aliens are gonna fuck up the galaxy unless we all become fascists?
>>63836676
Yes. It is 2015 so it is time Star Wars caught up as well.
>>63836382
Didn't you read my post? I said they'll likely diverge but retain the same general situation of the Empire winning. Is that really the same as ESB 2.0?
>>63834836
She clearly says she knew about Jedi and what they were capable of.
>>63836658
She being force sensitive, combined with the fact that Ren was injured is more than enough to excuse your arguments.
>>63835495
>Because her and Ben aren't that different in age.
They are approx. 10 years apart. If you are paying attention to how they are handling the timeline of the movie as well as the casting, you can assume the actors are the ages they are in the film. Adam Driver was born in 1983 and Daisy Ridley was born in 1992. It would make sense that Ben Solo would be in his late teens while Rey was still a young kid.
What I don't get is who dropped her off on Jakku. I feel like it was the Knights of Ren because why would she be handed over to some seedy black market dealer by her father/mentor.
>>63834773
>>63835532
>one of Luke's pupils went evil and killed the rest
>it was fucking Rey not Ren
>she was given false memories and put away somewhere safe.
>>63836871
You are making an argument for why Ren lost, not for Rey suddenly acquired lightsabre skill.
>>63836965
If Disney pulled that off, I would be impressed. But they won't.
Luke is the new Yoda/Obi
Ren is the new Vader
Rey is the new Luke
Literally all 3 will be given the same overall character arcs.
Who is Rey's father?
It can't be Luke because the Jedi take a vow of celibacy.
DAILY REMINDER:
Rey wasn't that skilled with the lightsaber initially, and Ren obviously didn't want to kill her because he was interesting in training her. Then, when her corners her, she focuses and remembers the Force and steps up her game a bit.
KEEP IN MIND REN DIDN'T WANT TO KILL HER AND WAS ALSO INJURED.
>>63836476
ELL OHHH ELLL THAT CLUMSY FIGHTING WITH THE STAFF AGAINST TWO GOONS IS SUPPOSED TO REFLECT THAT SHE'S HIGHLY PROFICIENT WITH A STAFF (WHICH IS FUNCTIONALLY DIFFERENT FROM A FUCKING SWORD IN THE FIRST PLACE LOL) AND SHOULD EXPECT THE SAME RESULT FIGHTING A TRAINED JEDI TOPKEK
>>63837084
>If Disney pulled that off, I would be impressed
Why? It's fucking soap opera-tier.
>>63834133
If your talking about ESB, Luke got his ass kicked and only got away because Vader didn't want to kill him. He had no chance again Vader at that time.
>>63836658
pretentious. The fundamentals of fighting with a weapon transfers across with ease.
Also as always everyone in this thread is assuming that Kylo Ren is trained to duel with Lightsabers when other than having one there's no evidence for this to be the case. We don't even know if Snoke is a Sith in the traditional sense. We equally don't know what kind of training Rey had in her classified childhood.
>>63836476
The two styles are extremely different. Hell, I'd like to see how well a foil fencer could use a saber.
>>63834952
That's post acquisition. It is canon.
>>63837146
Because it is fucking Disney
>>63830594
But that actually is how it works. You can think something and make it happen. Moving your hands or talking are just a way to focus yourself on what you're trying to do.
Anyway, that was the EU explanation.
OFFICIAL REASONABLE RESPONSE POST.
>she was trained very young, and doesn't remember
>she is family, probably Han and Leia's daughter.. perhaps up to 10 years younger than Kylo, if they aren't twins
>she has jedi reflexes, and balance, and obviously plenty of real life combat training
>Kylo may have never been in a real fight in his life, is extremely unstable, not close to a sith master
oh and..
>The top rebel pilot looked impressed when he was arrested, looking around the star destroyer, and showed his anger - he'll become a top sith..
But who is snoke?
>>63836959
luke dropped her off on his way out. Im not kidding.
>>63837284
>Kylo may have never been in a real fight in his life, is extremely unstable, not close to a sith master
Kylo literally send Luke into hiding by murking everyone else he trained with.
>>63836322
I still think she should have said, "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!"
>>63832265
What you're describing is called power creep anon.
And it's literally all that JJ Cuckrams knows how to do.
Because why be creative when you can just copy something in a previous movie only do it bigger and flashier?
>>63837201
Skallagrimlaugh.jpg
>>63837354
JJ loves Broly
>>63837201
>The fundamentals of fighting with a weapon transfers across with ease.
Anyone who has ever trained with a weapon will tell you that's wrong. You would not be able to wield a sword properly because you trained with a spear, nor use nun chucks because know how to use a staff, etc.
>>63836996
She didn't have much skill, though. Her fighting was mostly slow and clunky.
>>63837346
>implying Leia is a reliable source
>implying what actually happened won't be. explained in episode VIII
>>63834914
I guess child murderer skips every generation
>>63837493
Han said it.
Rey's vision and/or flashbacks confirmed it
>>63837284
Its never shown that she was trained when she was young. Its not reasonable to believe that a scavenger with almost no experience with the force and no experience with a lightsabre has more combat experience or skill then someone who trained under Luke and Snoke for years, fought other force users and presumably rebels, and has his power explicitly stated.
Throughout the whole movie Ren has been portrayed as menacing to every major character, his force powers are shot in a way to make them seem threatening and powerful. He overpowers every other character with ease, for most of the movie Ren is potrayed as dangerous and skilled.
>>63831743
>Jedi Mind Tricks are literally one of the hardest skills to learn and master for any Jedi.
[citation needed]
>>63835374
When? She was dropped off on Jakku when she was like 6. Did Luke train her when she was like 3? Did she learn the Force before learning how to walk?
>>63837466
>Anyone who has ever trained with a weapon will tell you that's wrong. You would not be able to wield a sword properly because you trained with a spear, nor use nun chucks because know how to use a staff, etc.
I agree with you and this is still the most autistic thing I've read in the last 15 minutes.
>>63837346
No no no.
Luke ran off because of guilt and being conflicted.
he became hermit.
and being a top Jedi, hes like a Buddhist monk, hes on a higher level.
Luke would easily murk Kylo, but its his nephew and he feels completely responsible
>>63835684
>>63835253
Are you just pretending to be retarded?
>this lightsaber belonged to luke, and his father before him, now it call out for you
>she has a very strong connection to the force
>she was dumped on a random planet just after luke abandoned training new jedis because of kylo going evil
>she is the same as luke in a new hope
>first time anyone even mentions a girl on jakku kylo immediately knows exactly who they're talking about, almost as if he already knows about his female cousin
Yeah we totally have no reason to think she's Luke's daughter or anything.
>>63837466
I'm sure that someone who knows how to fight with a staff still is better at using nunchucks than someone who doesn't know shit about fighting with anything.
And I'm not saying that Ren doesn't know how to fight. Just that Rey obviously has got some experience.
>>63831970
>I've never seen the OT
>>63837397
Skallagrim is a mouthy intermediate. I'm twice the keyboard warrior he is.
>>63837466
but if you train with a longsword and master it you can easily fight with a spear. The difference is a wider grip and that's about it. That's why the spear section in HEMA fechtbuchs are so short and longsword so lengthy because the actual weapon makes very little difference. It's a stick. A longer stick. A shorter stick. A stick with a crossguard. A stick with a blade. What matters isn't the weapon but the body mechanics to maneuver that stick and the understanding of fundamentals. Sword and spear lead directly into eachother both in western and Eastern martial arts. Both HEMA when taught correctly and Chinese martial arts train one to lead on to the other.
Every weapon sport that is truly a martial art teaches this Philipino martial arts teach stick fighting, then knives, then empty hand but the techniques have the same names and are taught the same because they fundamentally are the same to different enough that the mind can adapt to the weapon in hand.
Granted staff and sword are the trickiest example because staff is kind of backwards in practice but judging from the quality of fencing on screen both Kylo and Rey are rank amateurs and a beginner when faced with a long lesson of getting attacked by a more intermediate student often picks up and copies subconsciously the strikes and styles of the opponent.
Also THE FORCE.
Styles vary by necessity but the fundamentals remain the same.
>>63836396
Her being able to use the force so "easily" is out of character.
It also makes her character seem invincible. Because she does easily get out of every difficult situation. So she never in any real danger.
Even from the OT, Yoda it's harder so control light-side and it take alot of time and concentration. Like mediation and reach a zen mental state. But dark-side is easier and faster.
Also in the OT, people barely believe the "religion" of the force, and very few have an understand of it's power and how it works.
>it's fine, Rey can do it because someone told her it's true.
>>63837284
This sums up the damage control, even though it's all just reaching for straws to make this bad movie coherent.But it's not, search your feelings. You know it to be true.
>>63837912
I like your autism
>>63832386
>There is no other case within the new canon of people being able to simply tap into the force without training, Anakin was the "chosen one" and he didn't do shit without being trained first.
Untrue. Anakin was able to pod race because he was so force sensitive.
>>63838112
>>63838112
yea I might aswell be full blown reading this thread. When all these weapon experts come out of the woodwork applying their vast knowledge to the cheesiest example of stage combat you could pluck out of thin air.
I swear of all the weapon sports I've ever done criticising lightsaber fighting is always a phase beginners go through.
I was a little dissapointed with the choreography of this new movie as i was hoping they'd capitalise on Rens crossguards for some neat longsword shit but it was still very entertaining.
Tonfa Trooper was the highlight.
>>63837912
Embarrassing
>>63834489
I think that anyone who says "Sheev" or whom perpetuates this cancerous meme by posting deeply unfunny variations of this particular image, deserves to die in a vat of sharpened AIDS cocks.
>>63836476
>establish
But how am I supposed to believe she's just magically good at everything? With Luke you see him get his ass kicked and actually training to become stronger.
>>63830594
You forgot the "hey, wake up". That's always the funniest part.
>>63836476
Fuck off, Tumblr.
>>63838900
hello reddit.
>>63839347
Nice comeback, darling. Got any more?
"There was once a Jedi named K'ungfu."
>>63839429
>>63838900
Being a woman on 4chan should be a bannable offence.
>>63834616
>It's almost like you're trying to find any excuse you can to shit on the new movie to fit your "le Disney is bad" agenda.
It's almost as if, because you really liked the movie, you're trying to defend the weak points of the plot with whatever bullshit excuse you can comee up with.
Is there any reason we know of that tells us she should be 'more centered' than Luke was? Luke had Obi-Wan, and then Yoda, telling him how the force works, but Rey just knows? She resists Kylo, who isn't some nothing stormtrooper - and I see in other posts that now trained military are more weak-minded than a really smart moisture farmer!!! Take a reality check, people.
>>63837201
>Also as always everyone in this thread is assuming that Kylo Ren is trained to duel with Lightsabers when other than having one there's no evidence for this to be the case
Jesus Christ. He has a lightsaber. He can use the force. HE WAS A JEDI TRAINEE UNDER LUKE FUCKING SKYWALKER, but yeah, maybe he had no lightsaber training, that could be it.
>>63839782
for how long did he train under Luke? What was the syllabus?
His lightsaber's whole get up is it's bodged together and unrefined. Like it's wielder.
Also he'd been fucking shot.
>>63836330
How could you have such shit memory you sdumb bitch. This is the fucking quote:
>"...but he [Kylo] destroyed everything Luke had built..."
i.e. It was never outright stated that Kylo killed Luke's padawans.
>over dead bodies of Jedis
It wasn't Jedis you blind mole, it was rebellion people.
>>63839782
Did Luke ever get any sabre training from Obi-Wan or Yoda? So why assume Luke would teach his students dueling? Wouldn't it make more sense that Luke would have the same teaching style as his mentors aka zen force meditation type stuff?
>>63840603
As far as lightsaber on lightsaber dueling goes there's never any on screen.
It is ofcourse implied.
But Qui-Go ntrained to become a force ghost, but died too son to achieve it, yet taught Yoda the skill.
>>63840689
It's assumed Luke received it? Since when?
>>63841092
Obi-Wan did drills with him on the Falcon.
>>63841147
Yeah, blocking a fucking laser ball for like half an hour
>>63840751
No, he achieved it. Then force ghost Qui-Gon taught Yoda.
>>63841600
>When did he do the thing?
>He did the thing then
>Psh, yeah, tell me when he does the thing the way I want to do the thing
Suck a cock
So will there be a Mara Jade Skywalker or will Luke be a chaste ascetic monk?
>>63841931
It probably won't be Mara Jade but I figure they'll remove the sexless monk stuff just to distance themselves from the prequels.
Ben is Lukes son, given to the Solos to be raised alongside their daughter Rey. But when they both started showing signs of the force the went to train with Luke.
When Luke noticed Ben starting to fall to the dark side he Force Mind Wiped both Rey and Ben of each others memories of each other and sent Rey into hiding much like himself when he was born. After Ben turned, Luke exiled himself for failing to keep him from turning.
>>63838900
Sheev.
>>63841931
Question is, who will best play "Mara Jade"?
Hard mode: Must be around Mark's age and still attractive
>>63842486
Rene Russo looks like Mara.
>>63842486
Jane Kaczmarek (the mom from malcom in the middle)
>>63842286
the main reason I think it's just straight "ben is han and leia's" and "Rey is luke's" is the conversation that han and leia had with eachother about losing ben to the dark side. They are obviously Ben's parents, judging by how they talked about him. Everyone trying to give the paternity issues an extra twist is overthinking it. (PS: can't anyone control they damn kids in this universe?)
>>63838453
>mfw everything about that picture, fountain of blood included
>>63842615
I'd eat that Mara Jade's ass
>>63834952
That is literally canon, you illiterate retard.
![Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-Kylo-Ren[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NHWdPbI.jpg "Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-Kylo-Ren[1].jpg")
>Rey is Luke's daughter (lightsaber scene, obviously has strong natural Force power)
>Luke takes Ben Solo, Rey and other kids to train
>Ben and Rey are cousins, are close
>Ben is older than Rey, older brother/guardian relationship
>whatever happens, Ben goes to dark side
>Luke's missing
>with his gang he kills all Jedi, tries to get Rey to come with him (lightsaber flasback)
>she refuses, but Ben feeling close to her sends her to some shitty planet and erases her memory
>Luke comes back
>everyone dead, thinks he failed super hard, his daughter dead
>goes hermit with R2-D2
>Rey fights with Ben, her Force Awakens
>Luke feels her, R2-D2 comes alive
>>63833346
Yeah, a lightsaber weighs so much...
Everyone can learn to use the Force because the Force is in everyone. The Jedi just seek out the people who are naturally gifted because they can accomplish more, faster.
Yeah, my problem with "lightsaber battles XD" is that they're supposed to be symbolic..
>IV
>Student becomes Master & Sacrifice
Luke is only beginning his training with Kenobi, he is still getting to grips with the light saber, and is using the force as a heightened intuition rather than "magic" or telekinesis.
The "battle" between Kenobi and Vader is pretty "boring" in that it's only a brief exchange. It is powerful because it's symbolic and helps shape Luke's future (the hero) as he becomes one with the force. Kenobi becomes an omniscient spiritual guide, to help Luke with his training.
>V
>Luke's choice I
Luke has spend a frustrating amount of time with Yoda without any real results. He is eager to have the power now but Yoda reminds him that the quick and easy way leads to the Dark Side and that Luke must be prudent and complete his training.
Luke decides to help his friends and goes against his training, he's a young Knight but lacks wisdom or spiritual maturity. His encounter with Vader gives Luke the choice to either join Vader and complete his training as a sith, or to take the difficult road and complete his jedi training.
>VI
>Vader's redemption & Luke's choice II
Luke is now a Jedi master, he has the spiritual maturity and wisdom needed to enter the very heart of the Sith. He conquers Vader by using his anger, you know how the story goes. It shows that we all have the potential to be evil, at the climax of this Luke chooses good. This one is morally ambiguous as Luke begins very sage like, becoming more aggressive and
rage filled. Vader becomes more pitiful and weak, his final redemption again a sacrifice like his master finally brings him to the light side. You feel pity for the dying villain, there is good in every man!
>TFA
>????
Mary Sue suddenly knows how to use the force, lots of flips and twirls, beats the main "baddie"
Symbols? erm the red light saber means bad?
>>63842486
Julianne Moore.
>>63845770
Yeah that's actually one of the reasons midichlorians were introduced. The movie says that midichlorians are in all life-forms but the ones with the higher counts are obviously more naturally gifted as evidenced by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's comments. For some reason idiots think it's some kind of nanomachines but it's really just a way of measuring how attuned to the Force a person is.
>But Qui-Gon says they speak to us and communicate the will of the Force!
Well, isn't that how a radical like Qui-Gon would explain this concept to the child he believes is basically the messiah? He's all about the living Force, trusting your instincts and going with the flow. To him such a high aptitude would be a religious experience, especially given his familiarity with the prophecy. Anakin has the highest count ever? He clearly has a special connection to the Force and is obviously destined to do great things. Ergo, he explains it to the child as a sort of communication of the will of the Force.
>>63834844
That brings up an interesting point
These new stormtroopers are indoctrinated from birth and trained to follow orders. This probably means they never had to do any critical thinking and are generally docile in the brain.
Maybe the reason she succeeds in mind tricking the Stormtropper is because their training has left them very weak minded. I doubt she would be able to use that on Han or Kylo
>>63845790
>Yeah, my problem with "lightsaber battles XD" is that they're supposed to be symbolic..
i enjoy hope you skipped the lightsaber battles from the prequels.
And their not supposed to be symbolic, you're applying meaning to them
>>63845301
This actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you anon.
>>63830594
Sheckles are more important than internal consitency goyim.
>>63838900
>>>/out/
if anyone remembers
snoke said something like he felt an awakening and ask ren if he felt it too
probably something like random ppl getting force powers or having boosted force
>>63837598
here's your citation you knob gobbler, Luke didn't know how to use it until Return of the Jedi. Obi-wan didn't use it until AOTC.
>>63849042
only if Rey falls to the dark side, which would be cool and Ren becomes the good guy at some point. then it would be cool. but the rat and jar jar isn't that bold or creative.
