might be the worst show i have ever seen.
epic
its alright at times. some good scenes.
it lacks intellectual depth ultimately though. rather than fully explore its interesting premise it would rather just fill up time with retarded and unnecessary inceptionesque dream sequences to keep plebs/lost fans happy. lindelof is out of his depth. 'herr derr its not about how they disappeared' is just a cop out and annoys me. what is it about then? its basically just a romantic drama with cults.
series 1 was better. more existential and atmospheric. series 2 went full retard with episode 9.
B-but /tv/ told me it's one of the best shows of all time.
>>63828449
a glib facsimile desu senpai
>>63828775
>herr derr its not about how they disappeared' is just a cop out and annoys me
How is that a cop-out? Sounds to me like you're just mad the show isn't about what you want it to be about. It's one thing if the show was about the disappearance, and the switched gears halfway through, but the show has never been about it. It was simply a supernatural event in the setting of the show; a catalyst to explore themes of grief and loss. There's a reason the show is called "The Leftovers" not "The Departure". You really have no right calling anyone else a pleb with your entry-level thinking.
>>63829476
>Sounds to me like you're just mad the show isn't about what you want it to be about
pretty much
>a catalyst to explore themes of grief and loss
gay
>>63829526
>gay
not really
it's pretty poignant tbqh, family
>>63829476
whatever the inception shit was still shit.
![the.leftovers.s02e04.720p.hdtv.x264-0sec.mkv_snapshot_51.23_[2015.12.17_22.52.56].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/DRIMdt8.jpg "the.leftovers.s02e04.720p.hdtv.x264-0sec.mkv_snapshot_51.23_[2015.12.17_22.52.56].jpg")
didn't really like it much but something kept me going, I fucking hate all of the GR shit and could not care less about it. Also the first season gave me anxiety as if it was made purely to stress the viewer out, especially Kevin's scenes. But then I loved it after watching this episode, after this scene in particular.
Pretty great show honestly
>>63829559
basically this show is six feet under with cults and meme dreams
>>63829565
I thought it was a highlight of the season, actually. The first purgatory scene was surreal and weird a way the show rarely is, and the second had a decent amount of emotional payoff. What I liked most about Season 2 was that it offered up a slew of mysteries and then answered them.
By the end of the season; we know where the girls went, why the lake was drained, why a goat is slaughtered in town, why that women wears a wedding dress, what the GR were planning, what was with the bird in the box, and what the magic old negro's deal was.
>>63828775
> lindelof is out of his depth
I have to disagree here. Trite, unjustifiable character drama is exactly lindelof's depth. Hence why he is attracted to projects where he can use a catch-all premise to excuse the ways he slaps stock cardboard cutouts against each other.
>>63829476
It's a cop out because the showrunners stated outside the context of the show that it wasn't about the supernatural and giving answers and then proceeded to play with supernatural elements and use them in relation to maintaining suspense and keeping the audience guessing.
So Is kevin immortal or something? will he just crawl out of the ground every time he dies now?
>>63829826
Yeah, the people who yell that it's about the emotional states and reactions of the characters fail to realize that without the supernatural hook it would be a just be a terribly written melodrama.
>>63829877
He didn't survive the gunshot and died as the finale ended.
>>63829877
As long as he can sing karaoke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWv-IVrKRl4
>Ep 8 was amazing
>Ep 9 focuses entirely on fucking Meg and the guilty retards
FUCK
>>63829847
All the showrunners have said is that they aren't going to answer the question of where the departed went, they never said the show would be completely devoid of supernatural elements or mysteries. The show is about mystery. It's about confusion and not being able to understand why something happened.
The two main families in the show, the Garveys and the Murphys, didn't have a single member of their family disappear.
>>63829990
its funny how two shows this year, airing at about the same time both completely shit their respective beds in the penultimate episode.
i really hate the muh randomness in this show. kevins dads' schizophrenia has got to be the worst writing in the history of television.
well i like it
Yes but how did this scene make you feel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8w-nr9K4mY
>>63829918
The supernatural elements are very important to the show, I don't think anyone is denying that. We're just saying that the show isn't focused on explaining how or why these supernatural elements work, because it would ultimately undermine the point of the show. The show also isn't terribly written, though there's no point in arguing with someone looking for something to be upset by.
>>63830077
Laurie's unborn babbie departed
>>63830077
The point you're contorting your mind to dodge is how the departening is the core of the show, and all the supernatural shit they're throwing out calls back to the departening. But they're pulling a huge cop-out by saying they'll never directly address, explain, or show the departening. So its being used as a catch-all to excuse any shit they want to pull at any point, while it, itself, will never be examined.
>>63830180
It was ok
it's hard to take the GR seriously, they barely even seem like a cult, more like a bunch of obsessive fags.
>>63830077
They have repeatedly said that the show is not about the mysteries and all about the emotional reactions of the characters. And this is in interviews outside of the show that contradicts that very notion on an episode by episode basis. If you want to do a show that is about dealing with the unknown then fine, the departure is a great jumping off point for that. Piling convoluted supernatural mythology on top of that is disingenuous and hypocritical.
>>63830077
if they don't adress where the departed went in season 3 then the show will be a pointless character drama with shitty writing.
<spoiler> its not all that bad </spoiler>
>>63830148
Kevin's dad being crazy was okay. He was all crazy all the time, so there wasn't any outright bullshit to it.
Kevin being given a crazy drunken redneck alternate personality (and later a so sad suicidal personality) so Kevin-prime could be forced into dramatic situations is god-fucking awful and completely inexcusable, though.
>>63830229
I'm still surprised that no one in the production stopped the stupidity that is a bunch of people wearing white and chain smoking while refusing to talk and acting nihilistic and self important. It's literally My First Teenage Rebellion except with white clothes instead of black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqArJAc7j4Q
best scene of the show
Wish they'd just drop all the character's except Nora/Matt/Kevin.
I can't stand another whole episode dedicated to Laurie or GR/Meg
Also why did Jill have barely any relevance this season?
>>63830346
>(and later a so sad suicidal personality)
what?
>>63830218
I'm not dodging anything, you're just wrong. If you want to go watch Left Behind, I'm sure there's several versions of it available in the clearance rack. You whining about the show not being what you think it should be is not valid criticism.
>>63830352
well, it was in the book. So they couldn't change it too much.
Making them a nationwide organization was beyond retarded though. But that is lindelof.
>>63830184
They aren't focused on explaining how or why the supernatural works and yet they consistently use it as padding and a crutch for about half of the entire show if not more. If you eliminate the supernatural aspects it's a cliched sobfest that says nothing unique about the human condition.
this show is what happens when the wire and mad men meet incompetent writers. not a single memorable line of dialogue in 2 seasons.
>>63830386
alternate personality was in control when kevin jumped into the lake.
>>63830423
The dramatic character aspects of the show are the best parts of it though, they really capture that despair and sadness.
>>63830397
Nice refutation of that dude's argument without resorting to insulting his intelligence, brah
>>63830440
he jumped into the lake cuz le old wize nigger said it would make Patti go away
>>63830440
He did that because old shaman negro told him to die, didn't you watch ep 7?
>>63830397
>show presents itself as X
>everything that happens references X
>more shit is introduced that spins off of X
>pointing out that show isn't actually X, but Y, isn't valid criticism
leftovers fans.
>>63828449
I haven't watched this show yet but fucking everyone is praising season 2 as a GOAT TV season. What makes it so good?
>>63830489
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SabBKLuebSo
>>63830471
... and he saw magical negro the first time while an alternate personality was in control...
>>63830265
Wrong. What they've actually said is that the show isn't about answering mysteries, but rather existing in a world where mysteries exist. They are never going to explain the departure, the characters are never going to learn what happened, and neither is the audience. The supernatural elements outside of the departure are integral to the setting and the story they are trying to tell.
>>63830307
Stick with CBS comedies from now on, friend.
![the.leftovers.s02e04.720p.hdtv.x264-0sec.mkv_snapshot_51.28_[2015.12.17_22.55.07].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uhWMRh5.jpg "the.leftovers.s02e04.720p.hdtv.x264-0sec.mkv_snapshot_51.28_[2015.12.17_22.55.07].jpg")
>Nora didn't get a singular episode this season when black family, matt (not that I disliked it), laurie and meg got one
ree
>>63830452
Capturing despair and sadness aside from not being unique does not make a show good.
LOL at the people in this thread saying the writing is good hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaahahahahahahhaahahahahahaaa
>>63830558
When it's captured as strongly as it is in the show, yes it does.
>>63830474
More like
>show presents itself as Y
>you insist it's actually about X because you're simple-minded
>>63830184
it explores its supernatural elements in the wrong way. too much irrelevant bullshit for my liking and it lacks focus, they should probably have just abandoned the supernatural elements completely.
>>63830515
Your point?
>>63830602
The only way you could actually think that is if you have never experienced anything resembling actual grief/sadness.
Or you're damon lindelof.
They totally jumped the shark when they didn't show Jill get BLACKED amirite bros?
>>63830641
Why is that?
>>63830538
And yet they still focus half of every episode on these mysteries, and according to your argument they never have to resolve any of them. If the supernatural elements are integral to the show then they have to explain them and can't wave them away simply because they've explicitly stated outside of the context of the show that they don't have to.
now that the season is over, all of the /tv/ contrarians are coming out of the woodwork to talk about how they liked s1 more :)
>>63830423
>They aren't focused on explaining how or why the supernatural works and yet they consistently use it
Yes.
>as padding and a crutch for about half of the entire show
The supernatural elements exist for a purpose within the narrative. The world is actively not allowing these characters to forget about what happened. The irony of the Guilty Remnant is that they think everyone needs to remember, when the truth is no one is actually forgetting. They're pretending to instead of actually moving on.
>>63830437
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw3H3OFg-2g
this scene was a highlight
>>63830515
yeah but it wasn't sad suicidal...
>>63830637
... that kevin's alternate personalities exists only to force kevin-prime into dramatic situations?
>>63830666
kill yourself cuck retard
>>63830683
No it's just people who caught up after seeing all the threads on /tv/ about it but half of them just have shit taste
>>63830602
No, it's the easiest thing in the world to have characters be constantly sad by having bad things happen to them.
>>63830670
Because it displays zero actual understanding of grief/sadness/loss?
>>63830714
am black ;)
anyway she will get some of dat BBC in s3
>>63830739
But it's hard to capture it correctly and succinctly
>you will never sniff jill's butt
>>63830538
The show in essence is "how modern people would react if biblical events started happening today"
lol this thread is 14 people arguing about whether or not they wasted 20 hours of their lives. wtf
>>63830770
>something bad has happened to you
>look super depressed
>okay now dramatic music is going to play
... its basically all production values and performances. The writing is god-awful.
>>63830674
>And yet they still focus half of every episode on these mysteries
Because , in the words of Lindelost himself, "It’s about living in a world with mystery, and how frustrating and upsetting that can be, and how it can unhinge people, and drive people to join cults." It's fine if that doesn't interest you, but that's what the show is about. It interests me.
>and according to your argument they never have to resolve any of them
They resolved the majority of the mysteries they created in Season 2 actually. Most of them turned out to be coincidences or non-supernatural. Things like the purgatory dream sequences or the bird can even be explained away as weird happenstance if you really wanted to stretch it.
>>63830692
>They're pretending to instead of actually moving on
Just like this show is pretending it's about emotional fallout from a tragedy when in reality it's a weekly sojourn into the supernatural that never has to have any thought put into it because the writers have said it doesn't matter.
>>63830745
It portrays it very well actually though, it's pretty amazing at depicting grief behind the eyes and how the characters
How would you portray it?
Just finished season one. S-so s-should I continue with season two?
>>63830745
No it doesn't.
>>63830612
Oh well, show isn't for you then. I think they fit in perfectly with the story.
>>63830787
actually the show is "THE SHEEPLE ALL HAVE EXISTENTIAL CRISIS AT SAME TIME AND EVERYONE GOES CRAZY AT HAVING TO WAKE UP!! HOLY FUCK I'M SO ENLIGHTENED!!!"
>>63830821
We get that you don't like the show and everything but you don't have to make yourself sound like a retard for the sake of winning a 4chan argument
>>63830852
S2 is a lot better
>>63830829
It's one thing to not like the show, it's another to stubbornly insist it's trying to be something it's not despite the producers explicitly telling you what they are doing.
This is why your criticism is meaningless.
>>63830827
So is it about living in a world with mystery that's never explained or resolving mysteries that they introduce on a seasonal basis? The contradiction is essential to my argument.
>>63830869
Projecting.
>>63830692
Stages of grief are denial, anger, depression, bargaining, acceptance.
Holy wayne was sitting at bargaining to get people to pay him for acceptance.
The GR are anger at denial, except for laurie who's just in a perpetual state of denial.
Laurie instructs her son to target people in the GR who look depressed, so he can bargain hug them, to get them acceptance.
You're welcome.
>>63830931
It's both.
I feel like Season 2 was sort of a response to criticism people had of Season 1 not answering anything. At the same time, the one element tying both seasons together, The Departure, will never be explained. A lot of the mysteries introduced in S2 were red herrings.
>>63830941
I've had people defend the show with arguments that are exactly to that effect.
It's basically the next step once people try to excuse the lack of explanation of the supernatural elements.
>>63830917
Jesus Christ, producers explicitly telling you what they are doing is the strongest evidence that a product is poorly written and thought out. Especially when it lets them off the hook for using storytelling devices that never have to be resolved and can be trotted out every time they hit a wall.
>>63831005
Everyone in this thread is just appealing to the authority of lindelof and the other guy, though. They seem to understand how attempting to excuse the writing is a minefield.
why do autists always spend hours shitposting in threads about TV shows they don't like that became popular on /tv/?
>>63830666
they gotta have at least one Jessica Jones style scene in season 3
>>63831002
Ok, thanks for reinforcing my argument.
>>63831005
tbqh family, the supernatural events don't need an explanation, and if you can't understand this very simple concept, then nothing you have to say regarding this show is worth listening to.
>>63831049
>anyone who doesn't like what I like is autistic
>>63831074
>mysteries don't need resolution
>just liek real life xd
dig that hole brother.
>>63831042
>Jesus Christ, producers explicitly telling you what they are doing
...what? Literally every show has the people behind it telling you what it's about.
This sentence is perhaps the strongest evidence that you're a fucking idiot.
>show is pretty clearly about the social aspects of anomalies
>ree where's all the superpowers xD
>>63831077
>spending hours complaining about a TV show you don't like on 4chan isn't autistic
What would you call it?
>>63831116
I like how you took that bit out of context and then acted like it was the entire argument, in order to make it seem you easily defeated his argument.
Pro debate skills.
>>63831073
Such an insipid, say-nothing response really has no place outside of reddit.
>mfw it took me 6 episodes to realize the departed are actually gone and the people in white are just a cult and not the departed
>mfw i have no face
>>63831049
because everything needs to be explained like in star wars where every single character in the background has their entire life story defined and written in some EU book or like a sonic character where there's some wiki page that details each character in fine detail
shows like LOST or Leftovers are nightmare fuel for autists because they absolutely need to know what every single character and event is about. it shows a basic lack of imagination where someone else needs to define and describe everything for you so you can just crunch data instead of letting the mystery be
>>63831115
>if I add misspellings and add emoticons, it makes the argument wrong!
Brilliant.
But yes, there are mysteries in life that don't have resolutions. This show just amps up the concept by having those mysteries be supernatural and completely out of your control.
>>63831178
>somewhere, the sound of paper being angrily -crumpled and thrown at a trash can is heard, while a bald bespectacled jew curses
>>63831198
i have resolutions for everything in my life.
>>63831158
I like how I took that bit completely in the context it was intended, and then decided that you are either pretending to be stupid or are some sort of genuine simpleton.
Either way there's no point in further discussing this show, if you don't have any else interesting to say.
>>63831178
i refuse to believe this
>>63831198
So the show doesn't even need supernatural events. It could've just been about people dealing with mundane loss, because most events are out of people's control.
>>63831231
Okay, good for you.
>>63831268
i thought it at first before I heard it was 144 million people and not like, 144 people or whatever I thought it was.
Plus the GR are all bitches so I knew it wasn't psosible
>>63831116
No, evidence of being a fucking idiot is thinking that a piece of art shouldn't have to implicitly convey it's ideals without having the creators explain it to you. But I wouldn't expect anything less from a Leftovers fan.
>>63828974
>he believed that meme
>>63831275
This is exactly the point that everyone who is blindly trotting out "it's about the emotions not the mysteries" seems to be ignoring.
>>63831322
You can watch the show and understand the point perfectly though.
Are the GR going to go full White Night/Waco in S3 or are they just going to do more stupid shit?
>>63831275
Except the supernatural event basically sets the entire premise of the show up and exists as this one catalyst for everything in the show, removing that and having a series of short stories based around loss would make much less sense.
>>63831383
Goddammit you people are so stupid. The only reason you let them off the hook for the supernatural bullshit that they consistently fall back upon is because they have stated outside of the context of the show that they will never explain it, and that is the absolute peak of terrible writing and storytelling. I don't know how many other ways I can explain it to you.
>>63831498
I had no idea the creators stated that though, I watched the show and understood that's what they were going for, it's not exactly subtle about it, more surprised about how you missed that.
>>63830758
>am black
sorry your resume gets auto trashed at every employer, quintavion :/
>>63831275
Well, no.
Supernatural elements are inherently more interesting. Mundane loss is just that...mundane. Also there isn't a lot of mystery there. People live and sometimes they die. That's it. The only real mystery is about what happens to them after, and there's only so many ways you can explore them.
What being supernatural adds to the equation is not only do you experience the loss, but you don't know why it happened. You don't know whose fault it is. You don't even know if it will happen again. One of the main questions the show asks is, "Why should I care about family or relationships if they could also disappear at any second?" I don't know man, it works for me. Maybe it doesn't for you.
>>63831377
Because it forces them to admit they would not have given the show the time of day without the big supernatural hook.
Like in >>63831479
So the dishonesty of the writers transfers to the viewers.
>>63831479
Or just have the departure be the only supernatural event if it's even that and not have the bullshit padding on a weekly basis. That would have been much more difficult and they knew they weren't capable of pulling it off so they just throw everything at the wall every week and see what sticks because they can hide behind the fact that they said they are never going to explain it and the show isn't about resolution.
>>63831498
the s2 opening literally says "I'll just let the mystery be" sm.h
>>63831516
The notion that they are never going to resolve anything directly contradicts the consistent introduction of new mysteries within the show. There are much more artful ways to play with the concept of no payoff than constantly introducing new questions.
>>63831498
I can only speak for myself personally, but I knew about them never answering the departure before I ever watched the show, so of course I'm not to care about the answers if I'm told that isn't the point. Instead I'm going to watch the show and determine whether or not what they are actually trying to do is interesting to me.
That being said, even if I had gone into it blind, I feel like I would have realized that half-way through since the entire show is about not knowing and how frustrating that can be. Answering the question of the departure would undermine that.
I don't say this often, but >>63831559 completely and totally blew >>63831556 and >>63831479 the fuck out so bad its not even fair.
>>63831582
You're still under the impression that the supernatural aspects of the show are meant to be clear cut and not overtly ambiguous as they are explored through the eyes of the characters.
It's clear you don't like what the show is going for so why bother?
>>63831582
It's not padding though, it's the entire premise of the show. The show is about people living in a world where things happen that they can't explain. If the Departure was the only event, then the characters would eventually get used to it.
Not to mention that the show did an entire season where that was the only supernatural event. Season 2 changed things because that's interesting. You can call it padding if you want, but as someone who likes the show, I appreciate what it added to the world and how it progressed the themes.
>ehh the writings so so
>people respond to the idea
damon is so meta Lol XD
>>63831759
>>63831774
So we're right back to the events not needing to be supernatural at all, and could have just as easily have been stuff like no-fault accidents and freak phenomena.
But you would not have watched the show then.
>>63831694
I don't see how. The mundane and explainable loss of a loved one is not in any way compared to the extraordinary and unexplainable loss of millions.
Then again, you're probably just samefagging to say your thin argument, so I don't know why I'm bothering engaging.
>>63831821
You don't believe that those events compared would create the same level of reaction, do you?
>>63831821
>But you would not have watched the show then.
why are you making weird assumptions?
>>63831821
I've explained what the events being supernatural add to the show, you're choosing to ignore that in favor of repeating yourself ad nauseum.
>>63831844
One is a tragedy...
people always have a lot of trouble coping with loss, no matter how it happens. Lots of evidence and a narrative that can be understood and processed barely affects the grieving process.
>>63831759
>>63831774
>>63831844
Loss is loss, loved ones disappear every day without people knowing what happened to them and they either move on or they don't. If this show was really about examining emotional response to loss then it wouldn't have reality warping nonsense on a weekly basis.
Can someone tell me ending of Alvin and the Chipmunks road chip?
>>63831906
Mostly because you're not actually explaining the difference the nature of the event would make. You're just saying "but its SUPERnatural so its different because the show says it is."
The book was specifically an excuse to get a lot of people in the grieving process (the way a first year psych student would understand it) together and interacting, for drama. Because grief is grief.
>>63831914
If your argument is that a mother dying of cancer would feel no different than millions of people suddenly dying to unexplainable causes, then that's where we disagree.
In one case, my world has changed. In the other, the entire world has changed.
>>63831948
>Loss is loss, loved ones disappear every day without people knowing what happened to them and they either move on or they don't. If this show was really about examining emotional response to loss then it wouldn't have reality warping nonsense on a weekly basis.
I disagree, reality warping nonsense dramatically changes the nature of the loss, and that's why the show is so interesting.
waynes a hack
>>63831948
How did you come to that conclusion?
A big part of why the emotional and character segments of the show are so well-crafted is because of the relentless mystery, and it lets them explore different aspects of grief.
>>63831987
>You're just saying "but its SUPERnatural so its different because the show says it is."
That's not what I'm saying. That's why they have a quote function built into the site, so that you can respond to what people are ACTUALLY saying, instead of paraphrasing in an attempt to strawman your way into something resembling a salient point.
I don't know anything about the book, so I can't speak to that.
>>63831993
Everyone feels like the world is ending when they lose a loved one. Cancer is the most senseless and random diseases we're currently struggling with (and also the most self-defeating example you could have possibly come up with) and outside of one thin connection (lung/smoking) it never makes any sense and people build up all sorts of bullshit reasons as to why or they don't at all.
A hundred million people with cancer doesn't change how one person feels about cancer. A hundred million people vanishing doesn't change how one person would feel about their loved ones vanishing.
>>63832058
this, ainsley harriot is a fraud.
also what did kev wish for? I assumed it was to have the departed return (and Holy's face when he thinks of it) , and the wish got twisted but the S2 finale makes it seem like he wished for his family
>>63828449
>I thought this and "Last man on Earth" are the same show
>>63832125
>A hundred million people with cancer doesn't change how one person feels about cancer. A hundred million people vanishing doesn't change how one person would feel about their loved ones vanishing.
is this something you really believe?
>>63832125
> A hundred million people vanishing doesn't change how one person would feel about their loved ones vanishing.
I disagree, but if you truly believed something so stupid, then I can imagine why you wouldn't like the show.
I guess that's all that needs to be said, then.
>>63832125
>suddenly realizing the GR are a metaphor for the cancer awareness people
>>63832163
>>63832178
Do I have to quote stalin again?
>>63832233
go ahead
>>63832035
>>63832085
Exactly this >>63832125. The unknown is the unknown, the introduction of supernatural elements is unnecessary and doesn't contribute a show that is supposedly a meditation on realistic loss.
>>63832332
You could've just said "no" and you would have added more to the argument
>>63832332
Yeah, you can quote him all you want. I don't agree with him. I think the notion is absurd.
>>63832233
Are you sure that it's actually his quote?
>>63832402
>>63832434
Nice refutations
>>63832576
Nice meme
>>63832200
>lung cancer accounts for 2 percent of cancer deaths per year
the show is literally a metaphor for lung cancer.
>>63832576
Fuck off. All you're saying is that "all loss is the same." There's no way to refute that, since it's an opinion. I think that one type of loss can be very different from another. That's all the "refutation" I need to provide.
I've already acknowledged that you probably won't enjoy the show if you think there's no difference between losing one person you love and literally watching the rules of the universe change around you, but I do think there's a difference, and that's why I like the show.
Now go away.
>>63832666
trips for truth
>>63832666
>facts are opinions because they make my show look dumb
>this scene still isn't on youtube or anything
goddamn
it was such a small scene but it evoked a lot of emotion, felt like the first piece of hope kevin got in the show
>>63832666
Please explain to me the vast differences between someone disappearing for unexplained reasons in The Leftovers and someone disappearing for unexplained reasons in real life.
>>63832752
Why are you devolving into shitposting territory now?
>>63832752
Now you've descending into shitposting, which suggests you never really had any valid criticisms of the show to begin with.
>>63832792
>>63832828
Well, once you start trying to claim facts are opinions, what else can be done?
You've already admitted you wouldn't have watched the show if not for the supernatural hook, and now you're quibbling about a subject with which you have no familiarity to defend a show that uses cheap hooks and makes lame excuses for never developing the hook further.
Its lost all over again. As people defended that too, pretty much the same way.
>>63832783
Most mundane deaths aren't unexplainable.
But even in the rare cases where someone simply disappears from your life without a trace, it's still just that - a rare case. The world itself still exists and follows the same rules it did before.
In the case of the Leftovers - it's not just someone close to you that disappeared, it's someone close to everyone. Not only has your world changed, but the entire world has. This allows the show to explore things like cults and riots that simply wouldn't occur if it was one guy dealing with a sudden disappearance and everything else was normal.
Satisfied?
>>63832783
It really should be you explaining why you think 144 million people disappearing into thin air compared to random, ambiguous loss wouldn't significantly change how someone would perceive their own loss.
>>63832983
>You've already admitted you wouldn't have watched the show if not for the supernatural hook
that's incorrect.
>once you start trying to claim facts are opinions
are you being facetious or are you just blindly hypocritical?
>>63832993
The only cause of death is lack of oxygen to the brain.
>>63832983
>Well, once you start trying to claim facts are opinions, what else can be done?
Shitposting. Not going to bother to engage you further if you're not going to take the conversation seriously.
>>63832976
Personal pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people respond to posts with nothing but a link to another post. I imagine them sitting alone in a room desperately waiting for someone to respond, until they finally lose all patience and have to bring attention to this fucking gold that's gone unappreciated until now.
>>63833007
The show (well, book) made the claim the nature of a loss would influence how people react to it. So to defend the show, you have to defend that. And you don't do that by shifting burden of proof to people criticizing the show.
>>63830543
yes, "Lens" was totally not about Nora
I'm sorry you're too much of a retard to understand what you're watching
>>63833123
We're getting close to religion troll thread.
>>63832993
>>63833007
On an individual basis there is no difference between a loved one disappearing for "supernatural" reasons or mundane ones. As far as anyone knows every time a loved one disappears without a trace they have been taken to the rapture or abducted by aliens. The scale or cause of the loss shouldn't matter when the show is supposed to be an examination of how individual characters are responding to it. Which is why all the supernatural stuff is superfluous bullshit.
>>63833123
I'm really more just curious as to how you think the way you do.
>>63832993
>cults and riots don't exist in real life
This is why trying to defend the writing is a minefield. As mentioned at >>63831044
>>63833123
You were the first one in the thread to imply that the nature of the loss wouldn't influence how people react to it, so it's on you to defend that claim. If you can't, then you shouldn't have suggested in the first place.
Here's the thing though: it's an opinion. It's neither right or wrong, it's all perspective. We don't experience truly supernatural events in real life, so we can't say for sure how it would affect people. I think people would be significantly more freaked out, you don't. The only person wrong is the moron trying to claim to know for a fact how people would respond to supernatural events in real life, when they don't actually happen.
>>63833181
>The scale or cause of the loss shouldn't matter when the show is supposed to be an examination of how individual characters are responding to it.
what? to capture how the character are responding to it, the scale and cause inevitably matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzNtjgCnb4g wayne too based
>>63833241
>anything I don't like is just an opinion
so we're back to that.
>>63833103
Personal pet peeve of mine, I hate when people claim superiority on the internet without putting forth actual ideas while insulting the people who have differences of opinion with them.
>>63833181
>The scale or cause of the loss shouldn't matter when the show is supposed to be an examination of how individual characters are responding to it.
Nora's entire episode in the first season is about how the scale and cause matters though.
>>63833241
>x claims y
>so y is true
>so if z claims y isn't true, they have to prove it
You're basically performing the same mental gymnastics that Christians use to shift the burden of proof to atheists.
>>63830265
>They have repeatedly said that the show is not about the mysteries and all about the emotional reactions of the characters.
So its a SJW show?
>>63833317
You realize the entire first season is just a clumsy metaphor for lung cancer, right?
>>63833181
>The scale or cause of the loss shouldn't matter when the show is supposed to be an examination of how individual characters are responding to it.
Now you're putting words into the mouths Lindelof and Perrotta. They very much care about the scale of the loss and the way it has affected the world. It isn't only about the individual, but the world itself.
http://www.avclub.com/article/damon-lindelof-and-tom-perrotta-arent-interested-s-225871
>Both of us care very much about this world
>-in addition to creating a world of characters that I cared about—was that it’s very explicitly stated that this isn’t about resolving a central mystery. It’s about living in a world with mystery.
>>63833421
So we're back to the show not needing supernatural elements at all in order to follow the exact same format.
>>63833462
Do you think you are stumping people with your intellect or are you just being obnoxious for the sake of it?
>>63833234
Once again, we have a function quote feature on the site so that you can respond to what someone is actually saying as opposed to arguing with something you made up in your head.
"This allows the show to explore things like cults and riots that simply wouldn't occur if it was one guy dealing with a sudden disappearance and everything else was normal" does not mean "cults and riots don't exist in real-life", or I would have said that.
For someone who claims to hate the show, you sure aren't criticizing it in a very genuine manner.
>this thread
>>63833274
Shitposting.
>>63833308
That's very cheeky, but I don't see how I'm doing that. I'm not claiming superiority over anyone for disliking the show. I'm only criticizing the one retard for insisting that he's opinions are facts. I am superior to him, as is anyone else with a functioning brain.
The idea that you know for certain how people would react to a supernatural event, despite them never occurring in the real world, is idiocy. I see no reason to pretend otherwise.
>>63833421
Ok man, you're a straight up dumbass. Aside from trotting out interviews outside of the context of the show as if the creators explaining their intentions makes it irrefutably correct yet again, nothing about that quote supports what you are saying. There is mystery in our world, there are unexplained things in our world. You don't need to have bullshit supernatural things happen constantly to illustrate this, especially when it directly contradicts the notion that the show claims to be a realistic exploration of emotions.
>>63833354
Except that's not what happened.
What actually happened is:
>You claimed people will respond to loss the same way regardless of circumstances
>I asked you to prove it.
>You can not.
I don't need to use "x" or "y", because I'm actually interested in discussing the particulars of the thread and carrying on a conversation, not shitposting.
>>63833510
My argument for a while has the show doesn't need the supernatural hook at all, but excuses the use and non-development of that hook with "such life, such mystery."
So in that context, you are in fact insisting the cults and riots only happen because of supernatural reasons.
>>63833663
So our debate exists in a vacuum and there isn't a show that's shat out 20 hours of dross based entirely upon the idea that the nature of loss would change the grieving process and how people react to loss.
>>63833665
That's not what he claimed at all, that was an incredible leap
astounding
>>63831191
>shows like LOST or Leftovers are nightmare fuel for autists because
nigga you trollin
>>63833709
No, the incredible leap is when the leftovers insisted 1 in 50 people vanishing would excuse any bullshit they wanted to pull.
>>63833755
None of the stuff that's happened due to the departure is particularly hard to believe though
>/tv/ will argue that season 2 is better than season 1 when it's not
loving ever laugh
>>63833462
Shitposting. Not wasting my time.
>>63833616
>Aside from trotting out interviews outside of the context of the show as if the creators explaining their intentions makes it irrefutably correct yet again
Excuse me? The post I responding explicitly said, "the show is supposed to be an examination of how individual characters are responding to it." This isn't correct, so I posted quotes from the showrunners to illustrate that the show is about the world, just as much as it is, about the feelings of the individual characters.
If the thoughts of the showrunners are irrelevant, then how can you say for certain what the show is about at all? How can you say "the show is supposed to be an examination of how individual characters are responding to it?" Is that just an opinion?
>>63833784
Well, it did make a bunch of geriactric chainsmokers into ninjas who are capable of breaking into any and every type of location known to man, adding a couple hundred pounds of molded plastic, and leaving no traces.
Then that caused a riot.
I personally found that hard to believe.
>>63833665
>So in that context, you are in fact insisting the cults and riots only happen because of supernatural reasons.
That's not what I said, I'm sorry if you misunderstood.
>>63833823
>any argument I can't refute is shitposting
ecks dee
>>63833706
I don't know how you came to that conclusion, no.
>>63833819
season 2 was great writing though
>all the characters are different though no time has passed
>angsty girl joins cult because she doesn't love her daddy, resulting in insanity
>sane-cop dies twice, but gets better, because he passes the hotel tests
>>63833847
None of that is hard to believe though, especially given how it is set up in the show.
>>63833878
Sure, whatever. Clearly this has devolved into you wanting to get the last word, rather than make any sort of point about the show, so you win.
I've explained why I like the show, you can take it or leave it. I like discussing it with people who hate it, but you've given up trying to have a conversation in earnest. Take the last word, friend.
>>63833899
The show is predicated upon the claim you're attempting to get me to prove wrong, while the show offers nothing but it's own existence to support said claim.
>go on /tv/ to shitpost
>see thread about a TV show I HATE
>spend the rest of the day in the thread being angry for no real reason
>>63833985
Yea, I've known for a while that leftovers fans have no argument against the fact the show could have just not had supernatural elements at all.
I'm just... I don't know, hoping to be proven wrong.
Literally nothing happens: the tv show. By the end of season 1 the characters had not changed one bit.
![772221_TL106s10_040414_PS20273[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gEK5kNU.jpg "772221_TL106s10_040414_PS20273[1].jpg")
>Fuck your kids!
if the departed aren't answeed in season 3 the show will go down as the worst of all time
>>63833950
>old fat chainsmokers breaking into occupied houses with hundreds of ponds of plastic and leaving no trace and making no sounds is believable
>>63833823
Semantics. Nothing in that quote specifically refutes the idea that this show is about the primarily about the individual character's responses to loss. And here's a tip for future reference, it doesn't matter what the creator's were intending to say if they can't get it across in their work. If you think what people say in interviews should have any bearing on a work of art then you are truly a lost cause.
>>63834137
yeah you've already said that.
>>63834083
then at the start of season 2, everyone is completely different, except played by the same actors.
lindelof mang
>>63834158
>And here's a tip for future reference, it doesn't matter what the creator's were intending to say if they can't get it across in their work
You're correct, good thing Leftovers didn't suffer from it though.
>>63834165
It bears repeating because it is beyond retarded.
At first I thought it was going to be kind of like those "Left Behind" movies, with an ulterior motives to preach about Jesus and shit. But it's "Ok". I expected to go the way of "Lost"..., meaning it will never deliver
>>63834035
Okay.
>>63833992
I'm not actually trying to get you to prove anything wrong. Like I said, "I think that people would respond like ______ if a supernatural event occurred" is an opinion. You can't say it's a fact because that would require it having happened before. The only reason I asked you to prove it is because you're insisting it's a fact.
I'm not. I think people would be much more freaked out from a supernatural event than a mundane one, but I could be wrong. There's no way to know for sure without evidence.
>>63834198
>he says, after he ready every interview and bit of promotional material for the show before watching the show
amazing
>>63828449
>might be the worst show i have ever seen.
Only because you're dumb and didn't understand it.
>>63834245
Oh, so what you're saying are opinions now, therefore irrefutable.
Well golly gee I guess that's that then!
Literally one of dumbest shows I have seen.
It's literally about nothing.
I can imagine the jackass pitching it
asshole 1: "Well... here's an idea. What if a bunch of people disappeared?"
asshole 2: "whoa, yeah what if???"
asshole 1: "we can recycle ideas from shows that didn't get ok'd. But here's the catch...... lots of people have disappeared prior to it!"
asshole 3 "why? how? Will we ever have any progress in that area?"
asshole 1: "no lol we'll just explore these shitty rejected show sub-plots"
asshole 2: "good idea"
>>63834212
yeah you are
>>63834083
lol what
Nora was getting prostitutes to shoot her in the chest in order to feel something.
By the end of the season she found a family to care for again. In the beginning of the season she couldn't let go of her old family and the possibility that anyone knew in her life might disappear. By the end of the season, she did let go of that fear, and started to form relationships again despite the uncertainty. Do we watch the same show?
>>63834293
>insist show is really mature and intelligent
>insult people who criticize it
ebin
>>63834248
you're slipping up now bro.
Also you aren't actually making anyone angry
>>63834158
>Nothing in that quote specifically refutes the idea that this show is about the primarily about the individual character's responses to loss.
Before I can begin to refute that idea, I need to know why you have it in the first place. Why do you believe this?
>>63834224
Yeah, it's never going to deliver any satisfiable answer. But that's OK, sometimes setting an "enjoyable mood or atmosphere" is enough....
>>63834325
It's not very intelligent though, which makes it all the more impressive that people are somehow ignorant about it
>>63834319
adopting a blasian baby is about on the same level of crazy as getting hooker to shoot you while wearing kevlar.
but "MUST GET KIDS NOW!!" is one of the ways people cope with loss.
>>63834327
>the only reason anyone posts anything I don't like on the internet is to make me angry
:^)
>>63834360
Most of the time
>>63834283
Well, not just now, no. That's what I've been saying since (>>63832666) nearly an hour ago.
Instead of going full "golly gee" damage control and trying to deflect, you could explain how what you're suggested could possibly be a fact.
>>63834356
Well you could always attempt to support the assertion the show/writers make that a huge supernatural loss would change how people (don't) cope with their personal losses instead of attacking anyone claiming that's a load of shit.
But, hey. That's not possible because the show itself has people going through the exact same stages of grief and employing the same (non) coping mechanisms as people who lose people in non-supernatural means.
So I guess I'm guilty of enjoying the act of trapping you in a box that you made and watching you scream for someone else to dig you out.
>>63834367
>adopting a blasian baby is about on the same level of crazy as getting hooker to shoot you while wearing kevlar.
What does the baby's race matter? And why is adopting a child crazy?
>>63834515
>How is taking on a massive financial and emotional burden to distract yourself from your own issues crazy
gee, dunno
GOD TIER
Kevin
Tommy
SHIT TIER
every other character
HOLY FUCK WHAT ARE YOU DOING TIER
NORA
>>63834404
>lol i swear i'm not baitin bro
3===>~~~~̷̨̨͉̗̣͖̘̯̬̙͕̒̆ͪ̂ͫ̍ͬͅ~̴̣͉̙̭͖̩̟͓̟̺̟̭̖̘̬͎͍ͩ̉́͒ͭ̃ͦ͆͝ͅ~̵͚̬͔͈̭̯̯̖̤̘ͣ̍ͨͭ̄͟ͅ~̵̤͙̗̒̄ͨ͜ͅ
>>63834495
>Well you could always attempt to support the assertion the show/writers make that a huge supernatural loss would change how people (don't) cope with their personal losses instead of attacking anyone claiming that's a load of shit.
I don't think the show is saying that this is definitely how people would respond to a supernatural event. I mean, it's entertainment not a documentary. They, like me, probably just believe it would be dramatically different than everyday lose. Maybe we're all wrong, but that's the show they are interested in making.
>>63834589
I described exactly what I'm doing at >>63834495
But okay.
>>63834631
Sorry, I thought you were just being extremely facetious
>>63834602
>muh fiction
So we're going there. So its not trying to be a realistic meditation on how people would realistically respond to a mass existential crisis or loss. The writers are just lying about this.
fan tas tic.
>>63834555
Nora doesn't need to worry about money senpai, she got paid insurance for the disappearance of her entire family and has a stable job. Plus she's a millionaire by season 2.
And being alone was proving much more of an emotional burden. She needed that baby, famalam.
>>63834694
The baby not being enough of a burden to distract her does explain why she spent all her money on a house in season 2.
>>63834683
>So we're going there. So its not trying to be a realistic meditation on how people would realistically respond to a mass existential crisis or loss.
No, it's trying to be a realistic portrayal, but since nothing supernatural like this has ever occurred, we can't really know how realistic it is.
