Hey Lucas, this is how you do a whiny villain full of self-doubt. He's not only what Anakin should have been, he shits all over Vader's one-dimensionality. The only Star Wars villain that actually feels like a person. .
>>63813797
>The only Star Wars villain that actually feels like a person.
>>63813797
Agreed
How many of the people calling him a little bitch realize that that's the point? He's weak and he hates his own weakness
>>63813797
>The only Star Wars villain that actually feels like a person. .
But that's the exact opposite of the truth...
We know nothing about Kylo Ren except he's bad. Literally shit character development by yours truly, JJ Abrams.
>>63814408
they're literally dumb faggots raised on the prequels who think a good Star Wars villain is a generic one dimensional baddie who shows up for the formulaic highly choreographed and stale lightsaber fight and then dies
>>63814468
>We know nothing about Kylo Ren except he's bad.
You're thinking of Vader in Episodes IV and V. Ren is very well-drawn. He's emotionally unstable, unlikable, insecure, and has a hard-on for the legacy of his grandfather. He was the most interesting character in the movie by far.
>>63814552
>Ren is very well-drawn.
He's not though. He's literally just bad...no hints on why he was tempted to the dark side...no rationale of why he betrayed his parents. He's just bad.
Even Vader in Episode 3 had better rationale
>>63813797
Your mother actually feels like a person when I stick my dick in her.
>You're afraid that you'll never be as powerful as Darth Vader
One of the top 5 lined in the movie to be honest
>>63814649
You're thinking of motivation, not character traits. We don't have to know why someone is acting a particular way in order to find them engaging. I'll concede that Episode VII felt like the pilot episode of a really good television series; we still have so much to learn about the characters and why they're doing what they're doing.
>>63814722
>You're afraid that you'll never be as powerful as Darth Vader
Why be afraid of this?
It's the closest thing to a rationale we get and it's so stupid. JJ Abrams, fuck you.
>>63813831
He's right though. Vader, Maul, Dooku; they are all one-note. No confliction, no emotion. Just cold, driven, and "cool".
Honestly, Boyega and Driver have far more dimension than anyone in the Original Trilogy. They both constantly doubt themselves and their actions.
>>63813797
I agree.
>>63814468
Not true. We see him asking Vader's Force ghost for help being more evil. He has good in him, and the good is almost too powerful for him to be able to handle the dark side. Killing his father was a kind of atonement by blood for his failures to live up to filial expectations. He's literally the most interesting character in the franchise. Nobody in the Prequels did 'edgy' this well.
>>63814728
>We don't have to know why someone is acting a particular way in order to find them engaging.
Actually we do. That's the entire reason why Anakin failed in Ep3 and why Kylo Ren is so forgettable in Ep7.
The tragedy of each character comes in understanding how they fucked up.
That's exactly why Daisy bigtooth was such a Mary Sue for 99% of this movie. JJ Abrams barely saved her character by that tiny flashback, but he was THIS close from fucking that up.
>>63813797
he was CRAWLING IN MY SKIN the character, how is that good?
>>63814722
Just in case the audience was too dumb to get it...
>>63814870
>Killing his father was a kind of atonement by blood for his failures to live up to filial expectations.
You guys are really reaching for the bottom of the shit-barrell, aren't you?
>>63814889
>he was CRAWLING IN MY SKIN the character
So is Hamlet, arguably the best character in all of fiction.
>>63814935
No, you're just an autist
>>63814935
It's true. Watch the movie again, paying attention to the things people say about Kylo Ren and what Kylo Ren says about himself. You obviously weren't paying attention last time if you missed the obvious character arc.
>>63814728
He found out his grandfather was one of the baddest mother-fuckers that ever lived and decided he wanted to be more like him instead of his fat weird politician mom or his dead-beat career criminal father
>>63814746
>Why be afraid of this?
Because he doesn't want to be 2nd-rate. He is the nephew of Luke Skywalker and grandson of Darth Vader, but he felt himself to be a weakling. He has a great pedigree he thinks he couldn't live up to. Taking up the Dark Side was his shortcut to become more powerful, so he thought.
>>63814882
>The tragedy of each character comes in understanding how they fucked up.
So would you argue that Vader is bad because we don't understand what made him turn until Episode II? His motivation to be evil is nothing more than a simple want of power.
>>63814935
That is literally the only reason he killed his dad. He went so far off the deep end that he felt the best way to erase the pain he felt was to eliminate someone who could help him positively affect that pain.
It's not our fault you want to hate the movie.
>>63814981
>>63814965
>It's true.
That's actually the pathetic part. It's the dumbest arc I've ever seen, if that's what JJ Abrams was trying to convey.
Litreally Lit240 "what did he mean by this" level of depth.
>>63813797
Shit, I actually fucking agree 100% with this post. Good job, anon.
>>63813797
Anakin was the same way in Episode II and III, for MUCH better reasons and people like you say "meh, he was shit".
This guy has no reason to be evil. There's no reason why the son of Han and Leia and the nephew of Luke Skywalker should go off the deep end and turn into an edgy little bitch. Nobody told him about granddaddy Anakin or Anakin's redemption.
All these fucking Star Wars movies are stupid. What they've done here is reset everything and gone back to the beginning. Luke is doing the same hermit "I failed" shtick that Obi-Wan and Yoda did. The rebels for some odd reason are the underdogs again with the "First Order" thriving. And now, once again, we have a young guy that has turned to the dark side, betraying his friends and family for . . . reasons.
It's all tripe. When I think about it, the only good one was the original one from 1977. The second all this "force" and "the Skywalker family" stuff started to emerge, it went from awe, adventure and fun, to a fucking soap opera. Force Awakens isn't any better or worse than the OT or Prequels. It's more of the fucking same.
>>63814882
It's the first movie of a trilogy. Of course we don't understand all of his motivations yet. From what was shown so far, it has a lot of potential
>>63815055
Compare it to Anakin's agonizingly slow fall to the dark side and the stupid shit involved in that, or Darth Maul, literally being 'the guy hunting the main characters with a cool lightsaber and gets chopped in half at the end.' Even Dooku has no significant character development. Palpatine, for all his scheming, is presented only as an outright tyrannical Emperor or as a scheming politician trying to overthrow the rule of law because of his religion, but we never get insight into his past. You really think this is the worst character arc a Star Wars villain has had? You must be b8ing at this point. I can understand thinking the character sucks but why don't you take the other six movies and their bad character arcs into account?
>>63815022
>He has a great pedigree he thinks he couldn't live up to.
If that's honestly the rationale, it was terribly delivered.
We're given none of the backstory that explains Kylo Ren's childhood insecurities to justify his obsession with Hitler. Now you may say, "Well, wait until Episode VIII for that"
The problem with that excuse is that Kylo Ren has basically already been defeated (by a girl no less). We don't give a fuck anymore.
Why doesn't he look up Vader's wikipedia page where it talks about his redemption?
>>63815088
>This guy has no reason to be evil. There's no reason why the son of Han and Leia and the nephew of Luke Skywalker should go off the deep end and turn into an edgy little bitch.
Oh, so it would have been better if he had a vision of his wife dying in childbirth?
Fuck off, faggot
>>63815325
Space wikipedians cited a lack of sources for Vader's redemption and reverted it to just saying he died on the death star.
>>63815308
>"please explain everything to me movie"
>"why do Christopher Nolan movies have so much exposition? Does he think we're that dumb?"
>>63815088
>This guy has no reason to be evil. There's no reason why the son of Han and Leia and the nephew of Luke Skywalker should go off the deep end and turn into an edgy little bitch. Nobody told him about granddaddy Anakin or Anakin's redemption.
My only real problem with the character. I get hes suppose to be unlikable but his reasons and the life he had doesn't match up well. Hes a loony fan but it makes no sense for him to be.
I think the next movies will probably say he was bullied or something.
>>63815432
I think you're slightly confused. I don't want it to be explained.
I just want a better story. Right now, the "weakling at birth, overcompensating as adult" is not intriguing at all. Especially without added details.
>>63815088
Since Episode V revealed that Vader is Luke's father you've sort-of had to make a plausibility leap for the entire series. You have to accept that all the characters are connected in implausible ways and that events keep repeating themselves. It's a fairy tale, not science-fiction.
>>63815325
they never read luke's space autobiography after his victory, and all copies were burned by the first order
How many midichlorians does Kylo Ren have?
>>63815487
Think about how little we know of Vader in the first film. He was imposing, and he was trained by Obi-Wan. That's all we knew, and were willing to accept that. We know far more about Kylo Ren, but we need his entire arc in a single film, despite knowing that two more movies are coming.
>>63815308
Being defeated by a random girl will further feed his insecurities, making him more dangerous and broken in the further movies
>>63813797
No, THIS is how you do a whiny villain full of self-doubt.
>>63815088
It was JUST what I expected, this rehash is nothing but a glib facsimile.
If Star Wars was all I had access to as a child in terms of sci-fi I probably would become one of those crazy fanboys, but thankfully I had access to anime from very early on in my youth years that my mental balance is very stable.
Seriously, if you have watched Akira, you'd realize just how sophisticated anime is and it blows away anything Star Wars would have to offer.
A lot of people mention Ghost In The Shell, which has just enough of sexuality in the mix to draw in the western audience I suppose but I must say that Ghost In The Shell is not even in my top 10 anime, not even close, that's just how deep the world of anime is.
Some anime is so disturbingly mature like Fractale that I wish it would challenge the system and submit it as a Drama category in the Oscars just to bitchslap the snotty Academy.
It's not just the level of maturity and sophistication anime has, it's also quite original, entertaining, and visually fantastic. I would regard anime as the highest form of cinema art-form.
But hey, me preaching about anime won't do you any good, you gotta go out and see it for yourself just how much you are missing.
The recent one I would recommend to check out is Sword Art Online which is light and easy to get into anime for the first time yet appreciate it as much, but if you want the heavy stuff right off the line check out Guilty Crown in which the plot is so complex and twisted that you'll need extra oxygen pumped into your brain in order to comprehend everything, and if you want amazing visuals and a gripping drama that also has awesome mecha battles Aldnoah.Zero is the shit.
Seriously, if you know anime like I do, Star Wars looks like it's something for little kids.
>>63816004
Jesus Christ please fuck off
>>63813797
He's better than the Prequels Anakin, I concede that. But that's a meager achievement.
Especially when he's still a whiney annoying faggot.
Every scene he's in is full of involuntary comedy. He's not conflicted he's a worthless idiot.
I suspect he was made this way to exalt even more the qualities of the Marry Sue protagonist.
>>63815576
yeah I definitely agree with this... so much information was revealed about each of the original characters as the trilogy went on, don't see why it wouldn't be the same now
>>63815805
TBQH this senpai
Ren the best character in start wars. The potential for this insecurity driven rivalry is superb.
>>63815088
>This guy has no reason to be evil.
But that's the point, anon. That's what makes him different from Anakin. Anakin was pushed to the Dark Side. He didn't want to be evil but was forced on that path.
Ben Solo had the best upbringing you can think of, with heroic parents. But he ended up CHOOSING to be evil. He WANT the Dark Side for its own sake, he does it with both eyes open and doing it intentionally.
You say that makes no sense, but I say Ben Solo walk the path he choose himself. He isn't manipulated, he just desired different things from Anakin. And that thing involve being a Sith Lord for its own sake.
>>63816980
No anon. Insecurity like that makes someone extremely vulnerable to manipulation, this should be clear to anyone who has a cursory experience of other human beings.
Prequel Anakin was so poorly developed as to have no consistent character. He goes from reluctantly intervening in a confused confrontation with Samuel L to multiple counts of child murder. Pants-shitting stupidity.
>>63813797
>>63814649
We'll get there, can't reveal everything in the first act, my friend
>>63814935
Look at Kylo when his father says he'll do anything.
In his twisted little mind, Han had given him permission to murder him and claim the destiny he thought he had as Vader's grandson- an acolyte of the Dark Side who could become a true master.
He couldn't do it until then, spilling his father's blood.
>>63814769
>someone has to be a pathetic self-doubting faggot to have dimension
*tips fedora*
>>63815636
Fear (of his weakness, boosted by Ren whipping his ass at the end) leads to the Dark Side.
His master was waiting for his fear to consume Ren. Until it happened, he wasn't ready to be taken further down the path of the Dark Side, a vacillating weakling that might well have run back to Mommy and Daddy.
With Han dead at his son's hand and Ren getting a focus for his fear-into-hate, the time has come for Kylo Ren to step up to the next level.
>>63816004
This copypasta is already stale.
>>63817703
This is what's gonna hurt. This dude is a fucking villain, he has all the right motivation and developement to win but i fucking know he won't.
Fucking captain Mary god damn Sue has it all off fucking rip and you know shes going to fucking win in the end. This is such contrived horse shit.
>>63817865
>This is what's gonna hurt. This dude is a fucking villain, he has all the right motivation and developement to win but i fucking know he won't.
Of course he wouldn't win; he IS a loser! That was his entire motivation!
Why did you think someone who is so clearly a desperate loser was ever going to win?
>the lord of the Knights of Ren is a whiny mall goth
>people are ok with this
alright
>>63818106
because he relates to him lol
>>63814986
i'd love to know exactly what he "found out" and what he knows about Vader.
Because the truth isn't that his grandfather was a total badass sith lord, as much as it is that he was a great (but troubled) Jedi that became a sith lord to save his wife (and failed so hard that he ended up in a walking life-support unit)
Had I grown up as little Ben Solo, I'd want to be like my Uncle Luke and my granpa Anakin, in that they were both great jedi, and not the failed sith version of my grandpa
it's not even a matter of good or evil, it's that as a sith vader was a failure that was manipulated and controlled...
If my grandfather was Sheev, on the other hand, I'd certainly want to be like him.