Which edge lord is the better fallen student?
Looking back now, I think Anakin was actually better.
Episode 3 Anakin was pretty good desu senpai
Kylo is just a dumb virgin faggot
>>63812142
Anakin razed the Jedi temple.
Ben couldn't even lynch one nigger.
someone please post the gif from a game where anakin kills all the younglings.
>>63812142
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnwkE4trA48
There is no comparison.
>>63812173
>>63812176
>>63812274
Aaah you are talking about the movie duels 2 gif.... good times.
>4chan contrarian levels are over 9000!!!!!!!
Anakin fell because he wanted to save the pussy.
Ben fell because he was a pussy.
>>63812384
yeah that one. someone must have it. he literally kills the black kid first too lmfao.
Kylo just doesn't look like a believable villain. I wish they would have had some ruthless, middle-aged Admiral be the villain and he's trained by Snoke when his force sensitivity is recovered. This whole flick seems terribly miscast.
Intentionally Anakin you retards
How do people miss that Kylo is supposed to be dollar store Anakin for now
>>63812142
> black robes
> black hair
> mask for no fucking reason
> red lightsaber right off the bat
> crossguard because "I AM THE ANTI-CHRIST"
at least ani wasnt trying to be an edgelord...
Starkiller.
>>63812142
You know, after seeing the Force Awakens, Christensen as Anakin isn't so bad. I don't know why I always said he was shit after seeing this Kylo Ren guy.
This was pretty good. He had better motivations atleast (leaving his mother, trained by a bunch of heartless monks, mother is killed, constant visions of his wife dying).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UhQ9uuM-YQ
>>63812142
Didn't see Kylo fall so it's up in the air for me.
As for whether he's a better sith he'll probably never be as good as Vader. Most sith warriors are angry as fuck but Vader killed everyone brutally with nothing exaggerated.
We don't know what Kylo's motivations are yet.Hopefully he's doing all this because of a coming Vong invasion. The rage here would be funny to watch
>>63812142
Honestly it hurt more that a faggot like Kylo ended up coming out of badasses like Han and Leia, he was also named after Obi-Wan to make things worse.
Big disappointment.
>>63812786
Kylo isn't a Sith though afaik. He's just a dark force user.
>>63812812
JJ really wants us to hate Kylo...and I do.
Laughing so hard right now because it took Kylo Ren neing the worst character to make people appreciate Anakin Skywalker.
>>63812274
>>63812812
>He was named after Obi-Wan
Holy shit
>>63812884
I thought he tried too hard and made us hate JJ instead.
>>63812142
Anakin.
Ren is a fucking bitch. Should have kept the mask ON.
>>63812142
Hayden was good at looking pissed off
Driver was teary-eyed half the time. They start off trying to make him out to be this ruthless cold killer but then he throws temper tantrums and gets teary-eyed all the time. It's like they couldn't decide what they wanted him to be.
>people are actually defending Anakin ITT
>>63813114
What game is this
Kylo is a better character, Anakin was much stronger. I think the Younglings would probably have defeated Kylo Ren if they had switched places.
OTOH there's an outside chance they will do a dark side/light side switch with Rey and Kylo Ren which would actually be original + interesting.
>>63812142
Anakin was terrible because how was angry he already was. He literally had bad guy painted on his face before he became one.
Does Kylo kill anyone other than Han?
You hardly seen him in combat, but when you do he gets his ass kicked
>>63813945
>OTOH there's an outside chance they will do a dark side/light side switch with Rey and Kylo Ren which would actually be original + interesting.
I could get behind this, mainly because it would be the only original idea in the entire new trilogy.
>>63812504
Kylo isn't supposed to be a believable villain. This is why you don't work in film, you don't understand tone or theme. Kylo is a broken child, he isn't Darth Vader. He's Anakin.
>>63813904
are you serious?
its very simple. he lacks experience and discipline. he starts off as menacing, but then when hes faced challenges, he loses his cool. he had a semi breakdown too because he clearly contemplated on joining the light side at least at one point
he's nowhere near ep3 anakin levels of fucked up yet
>>63812142
Anakin is naturally an edgelord whereas Kylo is trying way too hard to be an edgelord. But that's the point of his character, and there's still room for development.
after 2 shitty movies with basically zero character development, anakin becomes darth vader without the suit.
he was good in ep3, and he looked intimidating as fuck, but his character arc was shit.
kylo already has a much more belivable arc after only a single movie, hes probably going to last until ep9.
>>63813939
A mod for Jedi Knight : Jedi Academy
>>63812142
Kylo is an incredibly well written character. Far cooler while also having emotional depth and interesting human weaknesses. He will have an actually engaging development throughout the story unlike Anakin which is just "I am good but turn evil because POWER or I hate the Jedi for no reason or something"
Maybe Kylo Rens autism, self-loathing and inner conflict hits too close to home for /tv/ virgins.
Kylo Ren is what Anakin should have been.
>>63813904
That's the fucking point dipshit
>>63813945
>Anakin was much stronger
I don't think anyone can debate this. Anakin was literally the third most powerful Jedi during their golden age while being only 22 and killed the sith lord that was capable of matching Yoda.
>>63813997
He killed Max Von Sydow at the very beginning
>>63813939
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. It is a mod though.
>>63813999
Rey's massive talent could lead to overconfidence, and Kylo Ren starts in such a pathetic place that a heroism arc could be really good for him (especially after such a major act of evil).
OTOH I think because he haskilled Hanthat kind of eliminates the possibility of redemption for many fans of the original series, save in a Darth Vader self-sacrifice way. I shouldn't hate the idea of a Sith tempted by the light side as much as I do, but I can just see Abrams being incredibly self-congratulatory about having that idea.
But yeah it could be kind of neat if Rey falls, Ren rises and at the end they each come to some kind of neutral territory in the force, opposing the power of the First Order together while not really stopping opposing each other.
>>63812142
I liked the movie, but Ren was basically being an edgy teenager who hates his dad. If he were irl he'd buy all his all black clothes at hot topic and draw knives and guns on his schoolbooks while listening to linkin park
>>63814149
>Matching Yoda
He only didn't get btfo because he made a tower fall on Obi and Anakin (and because of plot armour)
>>63812504
The guy is clearly struggling and doesnt go from wanting to save his wife to killing children in an hour
>>63814034
>Anakin is naturally an edgelord
He grew into that, it's not a natural trait. He was naturally impulsive, sensitive and passionate.
>>63813549
This fucking idiot
>>63813114
>niglet dies first
>>63814141
>it's not a bug, it's a feature!
>>63812896
kek
>>63814208
I actually liked that about Kylo Ren. No messy morally gray junk. Nothing bad happened to him. Wasn't seduced by a lust for power or revenge. He even recognizes that there's good in him, but he tries his hardest to be evil because he's just a jerk.
And really, when you're joining up with the space nazis, being a jerk is all you really have when you're on the frontlines seeing all the atrocities they're committing.
Like why did Anakin stay evil anyway? Padme was dead. He couldn't bring her back to life like Palpatine promised. The Jedi who he blamed for her death were all dead or missing. He never consciously wanted to be evil. He should've just sulked off into the shadows because his life had lost all meaning.
>>63814469
From his point of view he was ding the right thing. I mean, under the empire was the galaxy really that bad?
>>63812142
doesnt matter. only thing that does matter is that kylo is yeezy season 3 /fa/
>>63814469
Because Anakin is the worst written SW character?
>dindu about to kill sheev
>no dindu you can't do that it's not the jedi way
>sheev takes advantage and UNLIMITED POWER dindu through the windu
>"anakin you sith now"
>"yes my lord"
>"go slaughter younglings"
>"yes lord"
>>63814286
Forgot your :^) there
>>63814067
Zero character development? Huh?
In Episode I he's a bright, young, boy. He's a slave and the only world he knows is the slave quarters and Watto's junk shop. There's a device planted in his body that, if he or is mother should try to escape, a bomb will go off killing them. He has good intentions and is pretty compassionate (gives Qui-Gon and Padme refuge and food), offers to help them get the money they need to fix the hyperdrive generator, and is a well rounded kid all around.
Then what happens? He's separated from his mother at a young age during his developmental years and whisked off the planet. He's taken before a council that ridicules him right from the beginning. He's told that he will be all powerful and is some kind of "chosen one" but yet the rest of the Jedi want nothing to do with him and consider him dangerous. This is a 9 year old kid that was just taken from his mother and friends mind you. Then, the one guy that believed in him, his mentor/father figure, is killed off.
By Episode II all the "chosen one" shit has went to his head. He's a teenager, his abilities have made him arrogant and haughty. He looks down to his superiors, the very dudes that ridiculed and never thought much of him from the start. He's also part of an organization that forbids love. Then what happens? He's assigned to a mission with the chick he was looking to bone ever since he was a kid. Whilst on the mission, his mother is killed by a pack of Sand niggers that raped and murdered her. He loses it on the entire camp, and rightfully so. They acted like animals, so he slaughtered them like animals. Remember, there's a tremendous amount of guilt considering he promised his mom that he'd come back and free her.
Deep down, all little Anakin wants to do is protect the ones he loves. He lived a shit childhood as a slave and was taught by monks that love and possessions were wrong. By Episode III, he's just waiting to explode. Add Sheev manipulating him into the mix.
I cannot fucking believe people are saying anakin is a better character. After 1 movie he felt much more like a real edgy teen than anakin ever did with a whole trilogy based around him.
>>63812739
>> black robes
the same as all sith
>> black hair
as if he can control that
>> mask for no fucking reason
and you know this how...?
>> red lightsaber right off the bat
what the fuck are you memeing about
>> crossguard because "I AM THE ANTI-CHRIST"
i'm pretty sure that's not why. actually i'm 100% sure that's not why
>>63814650
is this copypasta
>>63814625
>he kneels before monster mash, and pledges his loyalty to the grave yardsmash
You can argue anakin was an autistic dumbass, but his whole life has been one big fuck up and death into the next. Not saying that excuses killing kids to keep your hot jewess alive, but it's there
>>63814217
He also had to flee cause backup was coming.
>>63814696
Nah, it can be if you want.
>>63814625
People on this board are like 18-25, they grew up with the prequels. The retards among them are blinded by nostolgia and pretty brightsword fights.
>>63812142
Kylo Ren was legitimately one of th best parts about this movie
>>63814208
He literally shot up his school because he thought he was too good for it.
>>63814863
Top fucking kek, I never actually thought of this
>>63814863
Well that IS the sith way
Cull the weak, make way for the strong
>nobody identified with kylo ren but me apparently
>>63815007
You should inform your local school district and your classmates
Compared to this fag I prefer anakin over this jew
>>63812142
Anakin's motivations and characterization made sense. Nothing with Ren however does.
Why did Anakin turn to the dark side?
>born into slavery with no father
>kidnapped by a cult of gay monks at 10
>they never bothered to free his mom
>mentored by a guy who hated his guts for 10 more years; the patrons of his cult think he's extremely dangerous and mistrust him
>comes back home to find his mom was raped and murdered by Tuskens
>his gay cult won't let him fall in love, denying him the experience completely
>fights a war, loses his hand, becomes a war hero
>finds out the Jedi are planning to kill the guy he just fought the war for, his father figure who is one of two people in his life to have ever given him praise
Now, we don't know why Kylo Ren turned to the dark side, but we do know he was born into an extremely rich and presumably extremely powerful family (since they won the rebellion). I'm going to assume it's just going to be some version of 'AARGH I CAN'T CONTROL MY POWERS' or something dumb like that. Long story short, Anakin actually is better.
>>63815248
Don't forget the Jedi Order in their last era literally believed emotions like love and compassion were bad and were completely secluded from the real world outside of their temples in terms of interacting with the citizenry.
Why was he beating his chest during the final duel?
>>63812142
Ben was a really good actor, the part on the bridge was really awesome.
>>63815248
>mentored by a guy who hated his guts for 10 more years
Obi-Wan never hated Anakin. I think you're confusing Obi-Wan with Windu, who never trusted Anakin or the prophecy of the Chosen One to begin with.
>>63815248
Obi wan loved Anakin what are you taalking about
Kylo Ren will inspire school shooters for generations.
>>63815288
>>63815296
First thing he tells Padme in Attack of the Clones, after ten years of not seeing her and ten years of training with Obi-Wan, is that he has no patience with him and he hates him for it.
They didn't really get along. Obi-Wan only took him along because Qui-Gon told him to. He was heavily against it in Phantom Menace.
>>63815285
Ma person of colour, i knew what happened and it was still tense as.
>>63812142
>Ren
>takes off the mask
>has literally fucking acne spread across his face
>looks like an oversized man-child and some mix-raced bastard
>incapable of emoting rage or anger with his facial expressions even during the final fight with Rey and Finn
Holy shit he makes Hayden look top tier as an actor.
>>63814650
>>63815248
Good shit.
I don't particularly care for the prequels, but Anakin's seduction to the dark side was solid. There was definitely development. I can shit on the prequels with the best of them, but when you come in here and tell me, "OH MAN, KYLO IS SO WELL WRITTEN, WHAT A GREAT VILLAIN", while completely shitting on Anakin, well, that just ain't right.
The thing about Force Awakens that opened my mind is all 7 of them are on an equal playing field in terms of what should be criticized. It's all stupid shit when you sit down and think about it.
>>63815360
Rewatch the movie.
>actually defending Anakin "sand is coarse and rough and it gets everywhere" Skywalker
>>63812739
His mask is a homage to Vader retard
>>63815436
>actually defending Ren "my master snoke is my life" Solo
>>63815248
Kylo ren is the typical spoiled kid who wants to be better than everyone else. Basically, wants power and wants to be as fearful as darth Vader.
He has no reason to be part of the dark side, maybe he's just an arrogant cunt.
>>63815405
>Anakin's seduction to the dark side was solid
No, it was one of the shittier aspects of the prequels
>>63815471
I'm not, both are awful
>>63812739
>black robes
All sith dress like that
>black hair
Genetics you nigger
>mask for no fucking reason
He wears it cause his face is goofy and he said he "killed" his former self. Also because he's a Vader fanboy and Vader wore a mask
>red lightsaber right off the bat
Cause he's evil you dolt
>crossguard because "I AM THE ANTI-CHRIST"
He built it himself so its fucked up and the "Crossguard" is exhaust ports.
>>63814149
Anakin had the potential to be the most powerful force user, but his potential dropped after Obi Wan cut off the rest of his limbs. He was the most powerful force user at the time, he just didn't have the experience
>>63815405
It's less to do with why and more to do with how with they presented him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqTilCyRyvc
>>63812142
Kylo just because his voice doesn't make me want to kill my eardrums
>>63815380
>literally looks like a cosplayer instead of Kylo ren.
>>63813904
Yeah cause he's conflicted as fuck. He even says he feels a pull to the light side, and thenwhen he talks to his Dad on the bridgehe has to like steel himself up to do it.
>>63815436
The dialogue was stupid but the sentiment was solid.
Ganondorf articulates the same feeling about being from the desert in Wind Waker and it's widely regarded as one of the best speeches ever given by a villain in a video game
>>63815495
Then stop sounding like a Jar-Jar Abrams apologist. At least Anakin's development and portrayal made some sense.
>>63814067
Anakin in Ep III was far too young and fuccboi looking to really be intimidating or be Vader-like to me.
He did have the pissed off face good, but still too pretty boy.
>>63815532
Literally how the fuck did he even get seduced to the dark side anyway? Was there any reason I missed?
>>63815280
Pain to fuel dark side powers
>>63815548
I sound like a cuckcuck apologist because I criticize the prequels and anakin ?
>>63815431
He's right though. While I wouldn't say Obi-Wan "hates" Anakin, he does resent him throughout the movies.
In Episode I, he's with the other Jedi. He doesn't trust the kid and doesn't think he should be trained. "The boy is dangerous, they all sense it, why can't you". The only reason he decides to take Anakin under his wing as a protegee is because Qui-Gon told him to in his dying breath. Obi-Wan is honoring Qui-Gon's last request basically.
Obi-Wan does love Anakin, but there is conflict there from the very beginning. How about that smug, angry look of disappointment Obi-Wan (and the rest of the council really) give Anakin in Episode III after they shun him for the 100th time. That shit would take it's toll on anyone.
Honestly, the whole concept of Jedi and Sith is bad overall. It should have ended with Luke Skywalker. The dude should have just walked away from the whole "order" thing.
>>63814469
But "wanting to be a jerk" is a shitty reason to do anything. He wants to make his idolized Grandfather proud, and he probably has another couple of reasons we don't know about yet. I'm sure he didn't go all the way across the galaxy and turn on his Uncle without a reason.
watched attack of the clones today for the first time since I was like 9 years old
My god is Christensen's acting terrible
watching Revenge of the Sith tomorrow and I hope he shapes up
>>63812142
Anyone find Ren's tantrums funny?
Other than Hayden's cheesy lines, I don't think Anakin was as bad.
>>63814575
This. He thinks he's doing the right thing but he doesn't feel like it. That's why he's conflicted as fuck about everything
Prequel apologists, aka history revisionists, are the worst scum.
Anakin's fall made logical sense but the acted out version in the movies are so bad it's hard to actually enjoy it just from watching Ep I-III. Ren's backstory isn't finished yet and what we have is kinda dumb, but the performance is at least enjoyable to watch.
I guess it came down to how it was used. Anakin seems like he's unintentionally whiney sometimes about shit that doesn't matter. Which this can happen but when I'm supposed to be feeling this huge loss for this supposedly great person, its undercut by how much of an asshole he was to pretty much everyone around him and constantly acted like a child.
Ben on the otherhand is done very intentionally, he thinks by having the emotional maturity of a child it will help him unlock his full potential with the force but its turned him into an edgemaster fagtron who can't think for himself
>>63815405
I honestly think part of the problem was how much development there was. They knew fifteen years ahead of time that he had anger issues, literally as soon as he joined the Jedi Order. As he grew up, he just got angrier and angrier. He loses his temper constantly. It's no fucking wonder he turned.
The OT made it sound like he was some valiant, upstanding warrior from the day he was born until some terrible, horrible, cataclysmic thing made him angry and fearful and caused him to join the Emperor. It would have been one thing to see some small hints that there was a repressed rage inside of him, but instead we got the reverse of seeing him angry constantly and only getting hints of how good of a warrior and pilot he was
>>63815007
I did. Quite a bit, actually.
This movie hit me emotionally, very hard, very unexpectedly.
I recently had a very nasty falling out with my step dad.
Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader:
>born as a slave
>has a bomb implanted in him and his mom to prevent slaves like them from running away
>deals with xenophobic aliens who treat humans like shit on a daily basis
>gets freedom; ends up stuck with a monk order of secluded assholes who are cut off from the secular world
>finds out his mother gets captured by Tusken Raiders who brutalize and beat her to death while finally finding her after more then 10 years since he last saw her in his arms
>this makes him more emotionally unstable and any chance of harm falling onto Padme drives in him a lust for further power to safeguard her
>ultimately is unable to control his emotions and love which causes him to fall to the dark side from good intentions from a man who manipulated him since he was 10 years old
Ben Solo to Kylo Ren:
>Anakin Skywalker's grandson
>Was trained by Luke Skywalker, his uncle, the son of the Chosen One
>For inexplicable reasons is emotionally unstable despite having no trauma or catalysts to explain this
>Kills his own father
>Has a supreme zealot like sense of loyalty to Snoke and the First Order
Kylo is shit.
>>63815689
Why does everybody blame Haden?
Name an actor that could have handled that script.
>>63815248
Apart of the problem was that the old order were dumb shits who thought people could push down emotions forever and that the only way to be truly disciplined was to suffer emotional death. In the original trilogy, the only reason the galaxy is saved is because Vader has a last minute change of heart because he LOVES his son. If he had listened to that shitty order and bought into it, he would have done his duty and served Palpz to the end.
>>63815613
You sound like an idiot because Anakin's growth was fine either way.
>>63815617
Luke tried his best to bring the Jedi back. He spent all that time and effort to become a Jedi himself. Of course he would try to reestablish the order after Endor.
It's far more interesting and far more in line with his character to see him try and fail than to not see him try at all.
>>63815288
>>63815296
>>63815431
>when Qui-Gon says he's going back to town to free Anakin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58JwbQCnpmA
>>63815715
>For inexplicable reasons is emotionally unstable
Did you watch the movie?
Seeing kid and teen Anakin ruined it for me. At least they started off with Ben as an adult.
>>63815548
>At least Anakin's development and portrayal made some sense.
>some sense
Do you have a minder I can talk to?
>>63815583
They alluded that something came up while Luke was training him. It's probably got something to do with Vader or Ben's parents. I'm sure we'll see what it was in one of the sequels.
>>63815782
>uwah my grandpa is Darth Vader
>must betray my entire family for this
Checking opinions and feels today /tv/ thanks in advance
http://strawpoll.me/6306008/
>>63812896
this actually says "he wants to be hardcore and his mom wont let him"
>>63815788
This is true. Especially seeing kid Anakin falling in love with adult Padme who doesn't age throughout the entire trilogy while he does. God damn that was weird.
Kylo Ren is the better one
>Ment to be unlikable
>Reasons are petty
>Accepts 4+ Planets dying
>Fucks up everything from the original
>Kills his badass father
Anikin was dumb who thought he was doing the right thing.
>>63815804
Are you old enough to be on 4chan, my redditor friend?
Anakin, aside from slaughtering Sand People and Sith lords that totally had it coming, was 100% committed to the dark side from the time he tossed Mace Windu out of the window until he tossed the Emperor down the space shaft. He was never 'conflicted' because he never felt bad about any of the awful shit he did until he saw his own son getting rekt.
Meanwhile, Kylo Ren goes around slaughtering entire villages but he does feel conflicted about it. That's worse, in my opinion, since a significant part of him knows what he's doing is wrong.
>>63815839
Blame lucas.
She was supposed to be 14 years old in TPM.
>>63815882
That's probably just his aspergers medication fucking with him
>>63815693
>Ben on the otherhand is done very intentionally, he thinks by having the emotional maturity of a child it will help him unlock his full potential with the force but its turned him into an edgemaster fagtron who can't think for himself
I personally just prefer Ben's choice to walk the Dark Side. Anakin's argument just doesn't make any sense. Anakin didn't have any reason to BE Vader, there was nothing to gain from it. Sure, he was mad that his mother and then his wife died, but that is no reason to turn Darth. What was the goal?
Ben Solo, however, DID have a goal. He wanted a shortcut to power, and the Dark Side offered that shortcut. Even though he is an unstable, emo kid, you understand what he is doing and why he is doing it. And his current position as a Knight of Ren matches his motivation. His goal is clear, and he is working towards it. Much better than Anakin would just turned Vader "because".
>>63815882
Anakin killed Sand People because they murdered his mother so he didn't even spare the women or children who were innocent of the crimes the warriors or men of the tribe committed. He doesn't even see them as living breathing human beings.
He also wiped out almost all the Jedi; younglings included at the Jedi Temple when Order #66 went down and he swore loyalty to Sidious as a Sith.
We aren't even given a justification for Ren's mental instability when he went axe-crazy at Luke's Jedi Academy.
>>63815845
I'm worried this is going to be like Lost and J.J. just crammed a bunch of 'mysteries' into his movie without any definitive plan as to how they should be resolved, leaving it up to the next two directors to come up with answers.
I hope I'm wrong
>>63815973
>and he swore loyalty to Sidious as a Sith.
That's where everything fell apart.
WHY? Why the fuck does he do that, when he has nothing to gain anymore? He has nothing, he desired noting, so why would he swear loyalty to a Sith when he would not benefit from it? The second he knows he couldn't get his dead wife back, he should have walked.
>>63815696
>The OT made it sound like he was some valiant, upstanding warrior from the day he was born until some terrible, horrible, cataclysmic thing made him angry and fearful and caused him to join the Emperor
I think what people fail to realize though is, that sentimental, idealistic memory Obi-Wan has of Anakin in A New Hope is from 1977, when Lucas had no intention of Vader being Luke's father.
We can't blame the prequels for the inconsistency because, well, Return of the Jedi is the movie the one that should be at fault. Once we find out in Return of the Jedi that Obi-Wan was lying to Luke "from a certain point of view" that whole "good friend" BS can go right out the window along with "Vader betrayed and murdered your father".
Everything in the prequels is fair game. Let's also remember that Ben speaks of Vader there too.
>"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father"
There's no implication that Vader was ever a valiant upstanding guy, because he wasn't. The prequels fit. Lucas fucked up way before 1999-2005, he fucked up as soon as he made Darth Vader Luke's dad, who was originally a completely separate entity.
>>63815963
>What was the goal?
He was tricked into thinking the Jedi were taking order and Palpatine was honest. Also he wanted sith powers to help Padme. When she died, he had nothing else and just rolls with everything. Maybe taking out the Emperor at one point.
>>63812511
>Kylo is supposed to be dollar store Anakin for now
Except better executed in almost every respect
>>63816058
>When she died, he had nothing else and just rolls with everything
That's where you lost me. Because that is usually when someone threw the badge away, walk off into the desert, and was never seen again. He should not have stayed being Vader when he was getting nothing out of it.
>>63812739
jesus christ you massive faggot. it's like you've just seen e7 and nothing else and want to rant with the rest of us
>>63815882
>>63816044
Anakin didn't toss Windu out of the window. Anakin cut off his hand to prevent him from killing Sidious who was promising him the secret to ultimate power to save Padme and his unborn children's lives.
As soon as he did that, and Windu got blasted out of the Windu while being shocked to death by Sidious who was play-acting being near dead himself; he realizes that he's gone past the point of return. There is no way he can justify or return to the Jedi High Council to explain the deaths of four senior Jedi Masters including Windu himself or his complacency in Windu's death.
His only choice at that point is to swear loyalty to Palpatine, become a Sith, and set out on his path to gain power to save his wife. Once Padme dies at childbirth, what's left for him? He's a mentally an emotionally crippled and his only anchor of support is Sidious who has spent over 13 years acting like a grandfather figure to him.
He has no one else to turn to. The Jedi hate him, the Republic is gone, he's killed thousands with his own two hands and the only consistent person in his life is Sidious.
>>63812142
Anakin.
And I can't believe I actually just said that.
>>63812173
>>63812176
>>63812253
>comparing the arc of someone who got 6 films to the arc of someone who wasn't even the main villain in 1 film
>>63816086
Better executed? At least Anakin could fight with a lightsaber. Kylo lost to fucking Rey who had only learned of the force the day she picked up her lightsaber.
>>63815454
>Wears a mask to cosplay as mai husbando Vader
>Now has to wear a mask to hide the immense shame of being manhandled by a little girl with no lightsaber or jedi training
P O T T E R Y
>>63816086
People keep saying this but can't explain why.
Must be shiny new toy syndrome. That'll fade in a few years, just like people's love for the prequels.
>>63816086
>>63815973
>We aren't even given a justification for Ren's mental instability when he went axe-crazy at Luke's Jedi Academy.
we're given some hints. fear seems to be the primary driver, fear of being unable to live up to pedigree. in effect it's the same thing that fucked with anakin and sent him down the path to the dark side, and now ren is seeking a quick and easy path to power and justifying it by looking to the actions of his grandfather
even so he isnt totally rectified with this path, and is more akin to luke in episode iv and v than vader. i can only imagine that his asskicking and last moment with his father (where han shows he still loves him) will continue to fuck with his mind and drive him further into despair
>>63813114
gud shit
>>63816086
Why would a kid with a stable family be a sith? Even with Han Solo and Luke in your family tree?
How come he is so obsessed with Vader he knows nothing about him when 3 of the major people in his life knew about his redemption?
>>63816044
By the time Padme died, there was no remaining Jedi order to go back to and his crimes were so unspeakable that there was no other possible option besides staying at the Emperor's side, ruling the galaxy, and maybe getting to overthrow him one day.
>>63816129
>Windu got blasted out of the Windu
*window
>>63816143
is this a meme now?
>>63813918
I FUCKING KNOW
I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M DOING IT EITHER
>>63814126
>that passive aggressive zinger thrown in at the end because he's not confident enough in his argument
wew lad
>>63815963
That's what was really ridiculous about Anakin turning to the dark side. His mother and wife are dead. Palpatine never shows him how to save Padme. The Jedi who he blamed for Padme's death are gone. He always thought he was doing good and never consciously wanted to be evil.
By the time ANH comes around his motivations are that he really just wants power even to the point of asking Luke to join him in overthrowing the Emperor. He doesn't care about doing what he thinks is good. His motivations in the OT and PT are completely different.
>>63816161
Don't be absurd. Christiansen was a terrible actor who was hired to read terrible lines. Whether not not you think his motivations and arc are more interesting, Ren does Anakin's whiny self-doubt better than the prequels.
>>63816227
No no, it was fine
>>63816161
>People keep saying this but can't explain why.
As I say, the reason is that he desires the Dark Side.
As >>63816129 points out, Anakin was tricked into becoming Vader, and then just ended up a useless shell of a man who has no goal in life. That's just pathetic. He was just a drone following orders and not even benefiting from Sith powers.
Ben Solo WANT Sith powers. He WANT the Dark Side. And that is why he is a more understandable antagonist because we see why he walk the path he did.
>>63816201
le everything has to be explained right away meme
Kylo Ren in Episode VII was given far more backstory than Vader in Episode IV
>>63816267
Ben Solo is a retarded chuuni
>>63816201
>Why would a kid with a stable family be a sith? Even with Han Solo and Luke in your family tree?
Stable families end up with kids who join ISIS. Shit happens. Much like no matter how hard the First Order try to created perfect soldiers, a defect like Finn ended up happening.
>>63816290
So? It still makes no sense.
Not even a subtle hint at why he would want it. There is literally no reason for him to want that type of power.
>>63816290
>>63816129
lol women
>>63816331
>Ben Solo is a retarded chuuni
Never said he isn't. But retarded chuuni are still people.
>>63813904
>It's like they couldn't decide what they wanted him to be.
That's because Kylo couldn't decide what he wanted to be. He was a whiny sperg cosplaying as Darth Vader who was constantly angry because he's not good at it.
>>63816358
>There is literally no reason for him to want that type of power.
He's full of self-doubt and finds a way to reassure himself by continuing his grandfather's legacy. It makes perfect sense.
>>63816358
>Not even a subtle hint at why he would want it.
Rey read his mind. Ben was insecure about his low power level. He wanted power because of his inferiority complex.
>>63816201
This.
People that are sperging out about how "great" Kylo Ren is while scoffing about prequel Anakin seem to forget that.
I guess Luke didn't tell his students and Kylo/Ben/whatever that Anakin was seduced by the dark side, only to see the error of his ways and be redeemed by the light? You would assume he would, surely the temptation of the Dark side would be one of the first things you would teach your students.
Par that with having good guys raising you like your dad Han, your mom Leia, your uncle Luke and your uncle Chewbacca and it really makes no sense. How is his grandfather not an example to NOT live by. The dude betrayed his friends and family and lived a miserable life as the Emperor's pet until his son came back decades later. Why would anyone want to be THAT? Makes no sense.
inb4
>muh Snoke
>muh power
There are zero benefits to the Dark Side, especially when it deals with being miserable, dismembered, alone and betrayal. Kylo Ren is an idiot.
>>63816143
He was badly injured beforehand, and it's never established that he's a particularly powerful Jedi. He doesn't have to do badass flips in order to be an interesting character
>>63812739
>Wasn't trying to be an edgelord
>Goes from trying get Palpatine put on trial to killing Younglings in the same day
We don't know why Ben turned to the dark side. We don't even know why they're the knights of ren and not sith.
Probably Snoke managed to seduce young Ben.
>>63816443
You can call it stupid, but it isn't implausible. People join ISIS with less justification. It happens.
>>63816443
>zero benefits
Sheev was having the time of his life though
>>63816426
>>63816429
I guess that makes some sense
Though the fact he has such a supportive family still bugs me.
Let's wait for Ep VIII to explain more about his childhood
>>63816495
You can always say we can wait for the sequel to happen.
>>63816526
>>63816343
I'm muslim and I don't even know why these dumbfucks are joining ISIS. I mean, why would someone do this to themselves?
>>63816443
The bad guys are cucks when you think about it really.
I still can't believe Vader would let his son kill him so that he could take his place at the Emperor's side. Didn't he learn from Dooku? Better yet, didn't Vader ever think, "hmmm, looking back, I guess Dooku and Palpatine were working together back there, huh".
This Snoke and Ren shit is the same crap. None of this stuff makes sense. There's no appeal to the dark side whatsoever. Luke Skywalker was the only one to see that. Story should just fucking end with him, but nah.
>>63815715
>>For inexplicable reasons is emotionally unstable despite having no trauma or catalysts to explain this
Jesus fucking Christ guys. There's at least two more movies where all of this shit will probably be explained.
>>63812142
at least anakin had his hot wife, can you imagine being cucked into having no gf since they forced you into being a jedi
Kylo will probably be
>muh expectations
>I wasn't strong enough! I need the darkside!
>>63816554
Yeah, that's true. It only worked with Palpatine really. He was the only one that had the right idea, acting as a manipulator.
Maul? Dooku? Anakin? Ben Ren? They're all cucks.
would anyone care to provide me with a brief history including the origins of the edgelord meme?
>>63816657
SW 1 through 6 really is the story of Sheev, not Anacuck
>>63816576
the 9/11 attackers were all middle class people with good families and college degrees.
>>63814000
>Kylo is a broken child, he isn't Darth Vader. He's Anakin.
But Anakin actually was talented, mostly competent and struggling with his hidden psychopathy until manipulated into letting loose.
Kylo is the direct opposite - he does not have a talent, seeing as Rey overwhelmed him twice without any training; he is not competent, to the point of being humiliated by Hux before his teacher; and he tries to be the biggest, edgiest psychopath he can be for no reason we're aware of.
The only thing they have in common is egotism.
>>63816753
I don't think JJ even cares enough about that
>>63816781
>he's weak cos rey overwhelmed him
NICE MEME FRIEND
>>63815807
Isn't it obvious? Luke molested him catholic church priest style.
>>63812142
Anakin, by far.
>>63816655
>at least anakin had his hot wife
Key word: had. He thought she was sleeping with Obi and kill her.
>>63816831
>Calling an observable fact a meme.
>>63816831
I see you've been bullied by girls
You should end yourself
>>63816854
he didn't kill her, just choked her for a while for betraying him
>>63816858
>>63816877
nice meme, friends.
>>63816889
Well he did make her "lose the will to live" so he indirectly killed her
>>63812739
Don't worry, i'm a 100% with you bro.
>>63816854
That's not true at all, all he thought was that Obi-Wan lied and turned her against him.
>>63816965
how's it being schizophrenic?
>>63815852
>>Accepts 4+ Planets dying
Actually Kylo Ren was arguing against using the superweapon, Hux was the one petitioning Snoke to be allowed to use it.
>>63812176
This desu senpai
>>63817026
only against the planet his mom was on
>>63812176
>Kylo is just a dumb virgin faggot
who can't drive
>>63816135
5
episode 1 basically did nothing
>>63816606
Pussy perhaps ??
Its stupid though
>>63816248
>That's what was really ridiculous about Anakin turning to the dark side. His mother and wife are dead. Palpatine never shows him how to save Padme. The Jedi who he blamed for Padme's death are gone. He always thought he was doing good and never consciously wanted to be evil.
Holy fuck. Stop posting until you obtain the minimum comprehension necessary to puzzle out movies literally made for 10-years old.
By the end of RotS Vader has betrayed everyone he ever knew except for Palpatine. Palps is the only person he can still turn to for any sort of consolation or guidancem, even if Anakin loathes him. At the same time Anakin loathes himsef for what he did and does not believe that his crimes can possibly be forgiven. So he simply goes along.
>By the time ANH comes around his motivations are that he really just wants power even to the point of asking Luke to join him in overthrowing the Emperor.
Anakin already wanted to be the Emperor on Mustafar. Seeing the Galaxy under an authoritaria ruler was established as his desire much earlier, tripping on the Dark Side just gave him an extra push necessary to consider himself in the position of that ruler.
>>63812142
> Anakin a full Jedi Knight who pwned Trade Federation and Dooku before turning heel
> Kylo a faggot who faps to Anakin's antics as Lord Vader
I can't believe I'm actually supporting Anakin right now.
It's too early to judge.
Wait until the second movie for some answers. My hunch on Kylo's story for now is the following
>Han and Leia pretty much became distant with their son at a very young age, because Luke requested he should become a pupil
>Luke was a shitty teacher and did something to set off Kylo
>or maybe Kylo was actually the weakest student, and the shame and inability to succeed the expectations of the Skywalker family line pushed him to the edge
>Knights of Ren cult come in and "redpill" Kylo with all of their dark side talk
>in his effort to feel strong, he starts believing it and eventually joins the dark side
On the other hand, I believe he's the one who sent Rey to Jakku for her own safety from falling into the Resitance or the Order's hands, hence why he got so pissed when the Order informed him that the third suspect on Jakku was a girl. Unlike Poe, he didn't do anything to torture her, and even tried to persuade her to be his or Snoke's pupil. Maybe he saw and treated her like a little sister back at Luke's academy, and she was the only one there who looked up to him, cared for him or treated him like family. That'd be a pretty neat twist, imo.
>>63816250
>Christiansen was a terrible actor
Wrong.
>Ren does Anakin's whiny self-doubt
Anakin's problem was not having nearly enough self-doubt, you retard.
>>63815845
No fucking way that's happening.
>>63815845
what is that supposed to be?
>>63817228
Sorry but I don't buy the "just goes along" >>63814625
>>63817365
ssssnok and Vader's burned helmet
>>63812142
No contest, Anakin. Just by the pic alone I'd go with Anakin.
Driver is probably the better actor (though, I don't think Hayden and the other actors were given a chance), but Anakin is much better as a character. I don't understand Ren's motivation at all and he comes across as a complete loser. Yeah, yeah, "b-but that's what he wants", I don't care, this whole Snoke thing is stupid. You don't kill your old man and betray your friends and family like that for no reason. Atleast Anakin had trauma and a fear of actually losing loved ones that led him down this path.
Anakin also looks fucking cool too. I forgot how awesome and unique his robes were with the reds, browns and blacks. Really earthy. In ROTS, Anakin looked dope. Also, best lightsaber by far. Ren is just a bitchy Anakin clone. This "Vader fanboy" characteristic is kind of shit once you see the movie. Still, Luke, Obi-Wan and Sheev will always be my favorite Jedi/Sith
>>63817332
>Wrong.
"From my point of view the Jedi are evil" might be poorly written, but that doesn't explain why his delivery was so terrible when Ewan was able to give half-way decent readings of equally terrible lines
>Anakin's problem was not having nearly enough self-doubt, you retard.
His problems were born entirely from his insecurities in his powers and his inability to control everything that happened around him. Did you watch the movies?
>>63816267
>Ben Solo WANT Sith powers. He WANT the Dark Side. And that is why he is a more understandable antagonist because we see why he walk the path he did.
So "I'm literally giving my soul away to Devil just because that's edgy" is more understandable to you than "I cannot turn back because I believe my sins are unforgivable, and building that Empire I've always dreamed about at least allows me to tell myself that the end justfies the means"?
>>63816607
>I still can't believe Vader would let his son kill him so that he could take his place at the Emperor's side. Didn't he learn from Dooku? Better yet, didn't Vader ever think, "hmmm, looking back, I guess Dooku and Palpatine were working together back there, huh".
Did you miss the part where Vader tried to convince Luke to rule the galaxy with him with the implication they would take out Palpatine together to do so?
>>63812142
>comparing an edgy worshipping teen to the greatest tragic hero of all time
Does Sheev get referenced in the new movie?
So Ren is Lukes son right? That's going to be the big twist of Episode 8?
Luke had a kid and gave it to Han and Leia since he was a Jedi and BenThis should be the most obvious of all things, his name should only be emotionally attached to Luke. Not Leia, not Han. But Luke.was raised alongside their daughter Rey. When both started showing signs of the force they were sent to Luke for guidance and when Ben went dark that hit Luke much harder because he was finally with his son and saw him turn to the Dark Side.
That would be a strong enough reason for Luke to exile himself.
>>63817228
He only feels that his crimes cannot be forgiven until he finds out he has a son who wants to redeem him.
Then only after meeting his son and his son wanting to be with him, does he really care about overthrowing the Emperor and bring his own sense of authoritarian justice to the galaxy.
In the OT Vader was evil just for evil's sake. He has no sense of justice or trying to do what he thinks is right.
>>63815845
what are you implying with this picture?
>>63817589
![Elliot-Rodger[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/POIsD9M.jpg "Elliot-Rodger[1].jpg")
>>63815715
>Son of rich hollywood director
>Fairly handsome
>Has all manner of material wealth
>For inexplicable reasons is emotionally unstable despite having no trauma or catalysts to explain this
>kill a bunch of innocent people
>is a supreme gentleman
gettin real fuckin tired of holding your had lil bitch nigga
>>63817537
Did you miss the part in Return of the Jedi where Vader tells Luke that "he must obey his master" and that the Emperor is Luke's new master now and that if he doesn't join, he will be forced to kill him? He says this to Luke's friggin' face.
Vader was Palpatine's bitch, through and through. Vader would have had no problem if Luke killed him right then and there after Luke lobbed off his hand. Hell, it takes Vader a long ass time to finally throw Sheev down into the pit and Sheev was fucking laughing his ass off as Luke smacked Vader down and took off his hand. "Gooood", "Gooood". Vader was subservient and had no qualms of Luke taking his place.
>>63817637
>is Ben lukes son
No. Just no.
>>63817688
>Fairly handsome
Also
>filthy normies
>innocent people
>>63817523
>So "I'm literally giving my soul away to Devil just because that's edgy" is more understandable to you than "I cannot turn back because I believe my sins are unforgivable, and building that Empire I've always dreamed about at least allows me to tell myself that the end justfies the means"?
Ben Solo isn't just after edginess. He wants power, and Fascism is all about power. The entire point of the First Order is power over other people, and that's why he is there. It isn't about "edge", he actually WANT the perks that come with ruling the galaxy. He wants to be mighty, and Fascism offer that.
>>63817710
But they need a big TWIST for Episode 8, and if they continue to follow the OT like they did with TFA and ANH, this would be the most logical "No way!" moment.
>>63815741
morgan freeman
>>63812142
He's clearly supposed to represent mordrid, but reflects the modern society white male, that is unable to accomplish anything and throws tantrums when they don't get what they want.
The other is just a bad actor, that got cast in a movie by a bad writer.
>>63816201
I know people buy into the rlm ideal that OR Obi-wan was friends with Anakin, but I think that's just the first case of showing that people lie to protect people's idealized versions of their people and their lives.
Obi want couldn't tell luke that he resented his father and that he was actually kind of a fucking douche. So equally I think that because we only see the story from the point of veiw of the rebels and the "good guys" we see a very skewed perspective. Kylo is probably going to show us how fucking douchey Han and Luke were at parenting. I mean I think that Han almost wanted to parent Rey because he knew he fucked up with Kylo.
>>63814126
>>63817492
>why his delivery was so terrible when Ewan was able to give half-way decent readings of equally terrible lines
That's like, your opinion, man (I found Ewan's delivery often more wooden).
But that scene being objectively better than the whole Kylo Ren's portrayal is not an opinion. It is fact. Anakin does not explain to us in painstaking details his inner turmoil and the need to pump himself up before attacking his former best friend. We (at least those not completely blind) can deduce it from Hayden's shaking, uncertain voice and the scene's composition. That's what acting is for: it provides to us better understanding of the events than the script alone could. And mind you, one of the actual flaws of the prequels already was overexplaining shit in the dialogue, instead of letting actors deliver information through acting.
But Kylo Ren's scenes are worse still. Acting is so completely absent from them, that we learn more about his emotional states in the episodes when he wears the mask and speaks through the modulator. The substance of his inner struggle has to be entirely explained in plain words.
>His problems were born entirely from his insecurities in his powers and his inability to control everything that happened around him. Did you watch the movies?
Did you? The problem that directly caused by his downfall was born from constantly losing people close to him, sometimes because he himself dismissed them from his mind for too long. The rest was egotism. How "I'm not a Force God who can defeat prophecies and cheat death... yet. Mayhaps Palps can help me to become that." can be taken as a sign of self-doubt, rather than of arrogance and overconfidence, I don't know.
God damn, I was expecting someone better looking for Kylo. Should've kept his mask on.
>people actually defending Ren
>>63812142
It's not really a fair comparison. Anakin had two movies worth of development to explain why he fell. Kylo is still being developed as a character.
This was just as goofy as every scene with Ren without his mask. The dialogue between him and Han ("help me") wasn't anything to write home about either.
All these Star Wars movies are like soap operas.
>>63812142
If only kylo was a hot white blond fit/Tall chad.
He would have had a Bateman tier worship right now.
and if he only had a decent fight scene where he didn't lose.
>>63818006
This. If he was actually attractive and didn't just look like a real life SW fanboy I might have been able to buy his character in the last half of the film. It's not even the actor's fault really as I think he did a good job with what he had but the moment he took off his helmet was the moment I lost all seriousness for the character and I almost started laughing.
>>63817775
>He's clearly supposed to represent mordrid, but reflects the modern society white male, that is unable to accomplish anything and throws tantrums when they don't get what they want.
Pretty much this to a great extent. The nerdy, red-pilled beta white male that throws tantrums when they don't get their way. Or at least that's what it looks like so far.
>>63816781
>he does not have a talent, seeing as Rey overwhelmed him twice without any training;
On the other hand, everyone seems to forget that
>the second battle was right after he killed his own fucking father. Kylo probably though that doing the deed would strengthen his ties to the dark side, but it only made him more vulnerable in combat instead
>meanwhile, Rey's powers increase tenfold when anger, manipulation and hate are brought into the mix.
That last battle between them was a huge foreshadowing for their future roles in the upcoming films. Kylo's still struggling between the light and the dark side, his powers grow weaker on the dark side, he regresses the back to the pained child that he is with his tantrums when things go horribly wrong for him.
Meanwhile, Rey's powers are growing at a fucking alarming rate and they always seem to spike when she's in a rage when someone she cares for is hurt. That's more in line with dark side force sensitivity.
>>63818150
I couldn't agree more. I almost burst out laughing when I saw his face. God damn, the casting for Ren was awful
Driver's acting was god awful.
>>63818077
>Star Wars movies are like soap operas.
yeah like a soap opera in space... we should really have a term for that genre.
that darth mickey mouse is just ridicolous
>>63812415
so much this
/tv/ now loves the prequels, it's fuckin hysterical
>>63812142
Kylo obviously, motherfucker still has buildup left and didn't feel forced, where George screwed any buildup to Anakin.
>>63818100
The fights in general were pretty mediocre.
>>63818235
I thought he was pretty good. His face just isn't suited for the role, even if they were clearly going for the fallen nerd/weakling boy trope with him. He looks nothing like Han or Leia either.
Maybe he'll look more menacing in the next one since Rey pretty much slashed his face open.
>>63816619
it wasn't explained in this film, so his character is currently shit
>>63812369
Hey anon do you have Aizawa shit poster one?
>>63812415
>>63818309
It's sad how right this ended up being.
4chan really is infested with teen and college hipsters. This was the best Star Wars film since the OT.
