>luke skywalker has to hone his power throughout 3 movies to even get to a level where he can duel a sith
>rey gets enough power in 15 minutes to out-duel and out-force pull kylo ren\ who has been training for 20+ years
how can anybody defend that mary sue
>>63798557
It's because she's just THAT STRONG bro
She could probably pull JJ's head out of his ass too, but I have my doubts
>>63798557
Kylo Ren isn't even that strong, that's the whole point of his character. You're supposed to think he's strong and intimidating in the beginning of the movie, when in reality he's weak as fuck and just has bursts of rage that come off as powerful, lacking in focus
>>63798557
>20 years
Wrong
>sith
Wrong
>>63798557
What is a Mary Sue? i always though it was a person who needed to be rescued everytime
was THIS close to asking who the fuck sicario is.
>>63800466
Pretty much a perfect specimen whose abilities defy logic and who has essentially no faults.
>>63799107
>She could probably pull JJ's head out of his ass too
>>63800466
a character who is literally perfect at everything and has no flaws
Kylo Ren is a whiny child who went emo before his training was even finished. FFS he can't even build a proper lightsaber. Plus he had just taken a fucking bowcaster shot and had one leg that was basically dead.
>>63800466
It's a loose term that at the basest level is a poorly written character. There's many variations on what it means. Most ordinary people can quickly accept this.
The trouble is half the people who argue about this sort of thing on /tv/ are legitimate autists who cannot deal with the notion of a 'loose definition'. It's the mental equivalent of them finding a spoon in the fork drawer, it drives them into a frenzy.
The thing that bothered me more than this is that Finn, some random stormtrooper that's never held a lightsaber before and isn't Force-sensitive, is able to hold off a trained Sith for a while and even get in a hit.I liked the movie though
>>63800849
>kylo can just force grab and choke people to death like nothing
>better lightsaber dual this nigger
I guess it could be seen as like a honourable thing though. He had to show the traitor how he was powerful and he made a mistake for betraying him, he beat him one on one.
>>63800910
nah the kylo and finn fight was fucking bullshit and there was no reason kylo shouldn't have used his force powers
remember, dooku used his force powers against obi wan and anakin, and sheev used his force powers against yoda and dindu
>>63800946
kylo isn't a real sith though. He's a good guy and snoke is brain controlling him. You see it in the scene with han. He's pleading with han to help him and beat the control snoke has on him, but once the sun is finally drained there is no more light only darkness and the mind control takes over again and he kills han. This is possibly a dual reason for the starkiller base. The sun is a source of light and anti sith, snoke is destroying it so he can control people easier.
Just think of where the heroes in starwars come from, tattooine/desert planets with lots of sun. They still have to stay in the light though, otherwise they are corruptible.
>>63800658
is superman a mary sue? he's weak to krypton. what about goku? he's painfully naive.
>>63801151
neither of those characters are mary sues, they get their ass handed to them all the time.
rey has no flaws. she's literally good at everything. at least goku trained a lot, and got owned plenty of times. rey had no training, no prior experience in anything, she was just good at all of it.
>>63801139
>He's pleading with han to help him and beat the control snoke has on him
There were no such specific words. It was intentionally vague dramatic irony- he spoke only about ending the turmoil within himself. And then he did.
>>63800773
It's a pretty clear definition
-Instant expert at anything. Does something better than people that have devoted their entire lives to, almost instantly
-Every conversation is directly/indirectly related to the main character, and it seems the universe itself is centralized around the character.
-Obvious wish fulfillment
-Their actions have no negative consequences
-May include special snowflake shit like being half-elf, heterochromia, anime hair, whatever
Usually, it's better applied in fanfiction
Rey isn't a true mary sue, she's way too physically plain and obviously isn't JJ's wish fulfillment, unless he's thirsty for the bbc. Instant expert shit is probably due to being Luke's daughter + memory wipe. Rey is sort of meaningless in the overall galactic picture, Kylo is far more important. She's still poorly written though.
He was shot in the side by a Wookie Bowcaster that only a couple of scenes ago had killed 4 stormtroopers in one shot. He even kept hitting himself in his wound because he thought it would make him stronger I guess? It's a sign he's not a Sith or a particularly good Dark Jedi.
>>63800658
She has abandonment issues
>>63801316
Nah it was shown heavily, that's the only reason he had that moment.
on bridge/ledgeway the light from the sun shone through the hole in the building/the doors rey and finn came through.
He was so close to handing over the saber, then they show you the sun extinguishing and he stabs han.
The light of the sun has a very real effect on force users. It'll be new disney canon, calling it now.
Could someone explain to me why Luke couldn't just handle his shit to begin with?
Wasn't he the last Jedi at the end of ROTJ? He's pretty much god of the universe with those powers.
I'm waiting for the cam so spoil away.
>>63799401
This
>>63801442
If i were the last Jedi in the galaxy and Yoda had as a last wish said to me to train a bunch of new Jedi plus making my own nephew a Sith. I would have ran away in disgrace too.
>>63798557
she is a STRONG WOMAN WHO DONT NEED NO MAN
obviously she is far better than luke, luke is a MAN
>>63800773
You have an entire drawer just for fucking forks?
>>63798557
Didn't her flashback imply that she had some Jedi training? I think it's just suppressed and she accessed it with her little Force meditation there at the end.
Also, you fags seem to keep ignoring that Kylo took a fucking laser crossbow shot to the gut prior to the fight, he was nowhere near top fighting shape.
Nobody cares, Star Wars isn't some thought provoking work of art. It's not even an artistic statement anymore.
>>63801151
You want the go-to example of a Mary Sue?
Batman
>>63800910
>>63800946
>Kylo is NOT sith he is just a whiny brainwashed kid who is angry all the time his light saber is a good representation of what his character is unstable
>Kylo gets shot with a wookie bowcaster
>Unable to focus and use force powers due to the pain he has to duel Finn light saber only
Come on guys its really not that hard.
>>63801958
>Unable to focus and use force powers
yeah lets just ignore that part where he force pushed finn like 50 feet in the air after getting shot but before dueling rey
>>63801429
>Nah it was shown heavily
I said "there were no such specific words."
>He was so close to handing over the saber
It wouldn't have been dramatic irony if he weren't tempted.
Ren struggles with light and dark within himself- but it's very clearly *within himself*, not Snoke exerting mind control. Ren, (and the audience) know that Ren is going to kill Han. Ren wants to do it to prove his commitment to the dark side, what better way than to kill off Han, who represents his only path back to the light? Ren wouldn't need to prove his commitment if there were no inner struggle.
Ren lures Han in by feigning a desire to go back. Ren's resolve is momentarily weakened. Sun goes out, Ren sees this as a sign, a symbolic reminder, and you know the rest.
The sun was a symbolic moment. Light is symbolic and will continue to be symbolic. Any explicit light=powersource is unlikely to ever become literal.
>>63802042
han and leia spoke previously of snoke's control and power over him though
>>63801442
Obi Wan, Yoda, and now Luke, they always go into exile once they realize they fucked up and helped the Dark Side, instead of...you know, trying to fix it.
>>63803179
And each time it has prompted someone greater to come along and make a change. It's the way the force works. When a situation is in need of a hero the force will bestow its powers upon someone chosen to bring balance to the galaxy.
>>63799401
You guys keep repeating that as it made the character good, but it doesn't.
It does not make for a compelling villain we want to see a redemption arc for
>>63803475
redemption doesn't happen till movie three. c'mon man, look at ESB.
thats when Vader gets down. Kylo gets chumped in movie 1, comes back to dunk in movie 2, and gets redeemed/dies in movie 3.
Regardless of how good the film was, can we all at least agree that it's 100% racial and feminist propaganda?
>>63800165
>was sent as a KID to luke to start training.
nigger you can keep repeating that he is untrained as much as you like, but he's been doing the force shit for close to two decades. Compared to rey who found out about the force five minutes before she was pulling jedi mind tricks
>>63799401
This.
Autistic niggers didn't pay attention when watching the movie and were memeing expecting Vader 2.0 when they got a character that would have been BTFO by young Asohka Tano
>>63801325
>mind wipe
This.
Now stop making this shitty thread.
