Best villian or best villian ever?
How does Kylo rank now? And how will he rank as the saga progresses?
>>63773232
http://torrentbyte.net/movies-torrents/star-wars-episode-vii-the-force-awakens-2015-720p-brrip-xvid-ac3-yify_94169.html
is this real or fake
>>63773232
OP can't even grammar
More interesting than the prequal introduced villains, him and Hux where two of the very few things about this film I liked.
He is by far the most interesting Star Wars villain. He acts like a real human being which makes him way more dangerous and unpredictable than the cartoony villains we were used to see in the prequels.
Also, his abilities are awesome. People who call him weak are retarded.
>>63773232
He was pretty decent but ruined by Rey's plot armor. Those shitty temper tantrums were pretty silly too. The first time, it should have just cut to Kylo force pulling/choking the messenger. The second time, should have been him unleashing his powers on the room itself, rather than using his lightsaber.
>>63773232
He's going to switch sides by the end of the next movie, calling it now.
I like Kylo's force freeze ability.
SHAME THERES NO JEDI KNIGHT GAME TO ABUSE IT IN
>>63773428
The second time was mostly just for the comedic effect of the troops backing off and cutting their routine walk short
>>63773232
Shitty villain.
Sure he's got scary powers, but at the end of the day he's just a little bitch. He's an 8-year-old with a machine gun.
>>63773428
I loved his tantrums. I'm glad they didn't make him a Vader 2.0, but a unique character who is powerful but also conflicted and emotionally unstable. He's childish but that actually makes him more frightening than him killing a bunch of officers would do.
Anyone else kind of disappointed with how he looked? Although, Anakin looked like a dork in the prequels too. So maybe that was intentional.
>best sw villain
>>63773548
You wouldn't be saying that if he was choking you to near death
>>63773551
So he's a fag? Some POS whose crying about a past none of the other characters even remember?
>>63773589
Prequel Anakin = Kylo Ren
They are very similar doods
REMINDER THAT MY FATHER IS HAN SOLO. HAN SOLO IS MY DADDY I HATE HIM
>>63773232
So did they ever explain in the movie what the cross guards were for? Are they vents or what?
I just felt like every time the mask came off he really couldn't keep his shit together. Probably a result of the choice of actor.
Then again the whole point of Ben Solo seems to revolve around being a shittier Darth Vader, so maybe it was all part of the plan.
>>63773232
Hilariously incompetent, so pretty good. He's not supposed to be a big bad.
>>63773232
He's quite a wimp. He's the shame of the dark side.
>>63773677
Kylo is a fine example of what we would've got if Anakin was played by an actor with any talent whatsoever.
Adam Driver = portrays a pissy little bitch accurately.
Hayden Christensen = actual pissy little bitch
>>63773232
Rule #1 of villains: DON'T TAKE OFF THE MASK
>>63773694
google "sword."
>>63773703
Yes, butwas getting caught part of his plan?
>>63773694
new toy to sell m8.
>>63773355
I've got to say, it was pretty damn cool when he froze Poe's blaster bolt midair. I've always wondered if Jedi/Sith could do that.
>>63773877
Even Vader stopped blasters with his hand, because fuck the repair bill, right?
>>63773428
>Chops the control panel up with his lightsabler, as nervous officer looks on
>"...anything else?"
Come one, that was pretty funny.
>>63773792
>DON'T TAKE OFF THE MASK
but then how else would we make sure he wasn't luke?
>>63773694
>>63773694
It's pretty good at burning shoulders.
Ok so let me get this shit straight
>Luke goes down the Jedi Knight 3 path and establishes an academy
>Leia's son is naturally force sensitive so he joins with them
>insert CRAWLING IN MY SKIN here
>all the padawans are dead and Luke goes into hiding
>Han can't do shit because his son apparently has father issues too
>Ben hooks up with Solid Snoke and joins the Ren dynasty
anything missing?
>>63773232
All I wanted to know was who the fuck Snoke is. I guess we'll have to wait two years to see if the Plagueis thing is true or not.
worst ever
>sith lord almost gets taken down by a stormtrooper
>actually gets taken down by random scavenger who has never held a lightsaber before
>is loki
>looks nothing like leia or han
now, darth maul is objectively superior in every way
alright I just saw this bullshit and was pretty disappointed highlights pretty much kylo and luke, the whole knights of ren scene was shown in the fucking trailer but lets stick to just little ben solo over here.
So the first scene when Sydow is like nah dude you should think about you're herritage and kylo's all like you're absoloutlely right I must admit that got me kinda stoked. But then he turned into this angsty teen, fuck that i want an evil dude not some kid that fucked up and is good deep down inside we already saw that bullshit with vader give me a fucking solo kid that just goes fucking nuts and never turns it's so obvious he's gonna turn, I will be satisfied if he fucking doesn't i'll say that much but you can see where it's going. Dude was cool not gonna lie but he was too much of a fucking kid and all like bitch made and that was not what i was expecting...hux was kinda a fag too
>>63774116
>sith lord
But they flat out tell you that his training isn't done yet
>>63773253
I want to believe
>>63773232
Really good villain. He is unstable, unpredictable, and they legitimize him. He is what Anny should have been in Ep 2-3.
>>63773694
It's because it's a shitty saber. They are vent holes you fuck. Look at his blade and look at any other one. His is choppy and badly made.
I like the similarities and differences between Anakin and Kyloe. They're both emotionally unstable young adults with far too much power - raised from birth being told about it and the great expectations that come with it.
This is in contrast to the heroes whose power awaken much later in life.
Anakin wasn't able to cope with knowing he could be so power yet never powerful enough to save his wife. He was reckless with the force and it drove him bitter and twisted.
Kylo Ren was likely raised with huge expectations, give his lineage. His motivation comes from a misguided urge to prove himself. The First Order clearly capitalised on this by giving him purpose and authority.
>Adam Driver is a pretty low tier actor
>still manages to pull off the whiny bitch role better than Hayden Christensen who had two whole movies to get it down
>>63774116
Darth Maul is a non-character. Kylo Ren has a personality and an actual goal in mind. How old are you?
>>63774532
Anakin was stable until Padme started fucking with him mentally with the beach dinners and the fuckme dress. Kylo Ren was basically born into a rich home with loving parents and turned out to be a problem child.
>>63774636
To be fair, Driver had actual sets to act inside.
So what will be Ben's reason for killing the younglings
>>63774770
Evil
>>63774770
Too much coarse sand got in everything and made him irritated.
>>63774636
Bruh if you knew anything about Star Wars you would know that isn't his fault. Blame Lucas for the shit acting in the prequels.
>>63774532
I drew more comparisons between him and Luke in RoTJ (possibly because I loathe the prequels so much). He's strong in the force, comes from a powerful family tree, and quite possibly has the potential to shape the galaxy how he sees fit.
But he's like Luke if he had taken the evil path. Killing his father in spiteful anger (remember Snoke referring to his confrontation with Han as his "greatest challenge yet", just like Yoda told Luke?), much in the same fashion that the Emperor tempted Luke to do. We see the conflict in Kylo's eyes as he makes his decision to commit patricide and commit fully to the dark side.
>>63774116
To be fair, the Scavanger took a look in his mind and stole all his lightsabre techniques.
>>63774770
Did he kill them though? Han just says Ben gave into the dark side and Luke blamed himself for it. He never mentions what happened to the other padawans. It's possible Luke just shut the whole shit down after that and hit the bricks.
We don't need Kylo to be a child murderer. He's already established himself as a piece of shit beyond redemption by killing Han.
>>63774892
In the visual guide it says that he's known as "Jedi Killer" within the First Order.
>>63773232
Bestest villain. I love that's he's a fucking mess. He's a deconstruction of every twelve year old who played a Star Wars RPG and tried to play the edgiest Sith Lord they could cuz evil is cooler than good, amirite? He so wants to be more Vader than Vader, but he's actually kind of bad at it, so he has to try so much harder at being edgy. Now that might not necessarily be cool, but it's interesting and compelling.
>>63774892
>>63774917
Theres also the scene in the rain where he and the rest of the Knights are standing over the jedi corpses. The fact that Luke chose not to confront them despite being so frightfully powerful shows he feels just as badly for the defectors as he does for the dead.
>>63773507
explain what it does
>>63775009
This, I like the fact that he's really just a fucked up kid trying to be cool, trying to live up to a legacy far greater than he is and failing utterly at it, being used as a tool the whole way.
>>63773934
by showing luke at the end?
>>63775087
he froze a blaster shot in mid air until he left the scene
>>63774770
Same as anyones. Hitting 16, realizing you signed up to a celibate group and getting really fucking mad.
>>63775139
>celibate
Not anymore m80
>>63775009
>>63775098
>I love Saturday morning cartoon villains its so awesome
>>63773232Ben Solowill Zuko by the end and join the good guys, he even has the scar now.
This movie would've taken such a better direction if Kylo Ren was actually Luke Skywalker
Can we take a moment to talk about how fucking cool his lightsaber is? Was it even a proper lightsaber or some new tech? Still not sold on the crossguard but the way it crackled and looked was just awesome. Fit him perfectly.
>>63773428
I liked the tantrums, they made his character different than just being another Vader.
>>63775171
Are you some how pretending that Darth Vader and Emperor Palpitine are not saturday morning cartoon villains when they are literally based on old saturday morning sci-fi serials?
>>63775160
;^)
>>63775138
Thats retarded. This movie keeps sounding worse all the time
>>63773253
honeypot
>>63775171
The fuck you think star wars is? The originals were cheesy, simple, action adventures stories set in space.
>>63775235
Darth Vader killed kids, choked his pregnant wife, and choked people to death. Palpatine was electrocuting people and successfully carrying out racial extermination campaigns. I would say they're definitely not kid friendly.
Not bad of a character so far, but surely there's more motivation than just being a Vader fanboy. He did freak out and kill all his fellow students; so we'll have to see
>>63775202
He made it himself using an "Unstable force crystal"
>>63775202
It crackles because the kyber crystal is cracked. That's also why it splits into three beams.
The beam is also described as "serrated," which seems to be the look they were going after with the "ragged edge."
>>63775235
They literally were not, kid.
>>63775321
Yeah but that's all prequel shit, Darth and Sheev were total cartoon villains for most of the OT, especially in ANH and ESB.
>>63775171
He's a little more than that. He's a deconstruction of one: the evil guy who wants to be evil and is totally mentally unstable because of it. The kid needs some serious therapy.
>>63775342
I can turn a planet into a giant cannon but I can't make a fucking lightsaber
>>63773305
star wars fans are philistines
>>63775391
I don't understand what you mean.
The crystal is cracked to produce the quils. The jagged blade is just a cool side effect.
>>63775321
>Palpatine was successfully carrying out racial extermination campaigns
In what movie?
>>63773232
He's a good villain UNTIL Rey use the force like Vader on steroids and fuck his shit up.
That last battle was really stupid.
>>63774770
Some are the Knights of Ren right?
>>63775391
>Implying Ben had anything to do with designing or constructing Starkiller Base
Next you'll tell me that Anakin designed the Death Star.
>>63775369
You kidding?
They were fucking sinister
Vader choked people left and right and was prepared to kill his son for the dark side, sheev looked like a fucking demon
>>63773232
how is the audience told he's Han son? Does Han outright say it? Or is it just implied? Someone shed some light
>>63775391
I don't know the lore, but aren't lightsaber crystals hard to find? Especially high quality ones? And Luke was probably the only person left who knew how to construct a saber. I wonder if he taught Ben. Otherwise Ben might've just backwards engineered his or something. No wonder it sucked.
Not like intergalactic superweapons. Heaps of experience floating around on how to build those.
>>63775433
thousands of Bothans
>>63775456
I can buy it considering that Kylo was injured and continued to be more so throughout the fight, if he had started in top condition he probably would've killed both Fin and Ray, instead of just almost killing Fin. Really Chewie saved the day with that bowcaster bolt to Kylo's chest.
>>63775385
>He's a deconstruction
OH NO
OH NO
ANYTHING BUT THAT
PLEASE DONT START GLORIFYING KYLO REN AS A DECONSTRUCTION
>>63773232
Kylo Ren's shittiness is perfectly summed up by Leia: "He has too much Vader in him."
He's Prequel Anakin. He's Prequel Anakin Jesus Christ he's back.
I half expected him to go "I hate snow" while fighting Rey.I didn't mind him being shitty, though, because this movie doesn't try to justify his shittyness like the prequels did with Anakin. He is 100% a crazy asshole, not a nice guy who got "rused" into killing children and sand people.
>>63773253
>YIFY
Fake as fuck, they're not around anymore.
>>63773428
I liked his kiddy tantrums.
>>63775512
It's just said outright. No big reveal or anything. Which is appropriate since it wasn't a big secret for the characters.
>>63775479
You say that like those actions are some how exclusive to them being saturday morning cartoon villains. Hell Kylo Ren spends half this movie fucking mind raping people, clearly the actions of a villain made for children.
>>63775527
>muh chewie shot
Really m8, he could have used the force in a million ways to win the fight without even using his lightsaber, like he did before with her.
That was just lazy writing.
Sucked dick, desu lads. He came off as an edgy teenager rather than a genuine villain. Looked like a teenager too, for that matter, but then again so did most of the high ranking not-empire, for some terrible reason.
>>63775512
They narrow his heritage down pretty well in the first scene, then they just kind of tell you about halfway through.
>>63775565
Yeah I was glad they didn't make it some huge reveal, though it was funny listening to the audience gasp at it anyway.
>Kylo Ren appears
>"This dude his a fucking badass"
>Removes helmet and explains his motivations
that's what killed it for me, no mystery to his madness, no real depth anymore.
>>63775543
"I hate snow. It's cold and wet. Not like you. You're so warm. And so very very dry." - Said Kylo as he worked his way around Rey's fleshy hangar.
>>63775589
>He came off as an edgy teenager rather than a genuine villain.
Literally the entire point of his character.
I really love this new, inclusive star wars. They have a female hero, a black guy and a Latino.
And they even included a villain with Autism.
>>63773649
>Asthmabot 9000
>>63773232
So does it show his master SNOKE in the movie in flashbacks or does he just mention him?
>>63775632
Don't forget an old lady which is probably the rarest of all.
>>63775653
No he's there, in full CGI goodness.
>>63775262
That was one of the cool scenes actually.Movie does a pretty good job showing new dark side stuff.God tier plot armors,rushed character development,cringeworthy dialogue and movie being A New Hope 2.0 are the real problems.
>>63775619
It seems like JJ realized he was pretty much aping A New Hope wholesale and wanted to find an excuse to differentiate his movie. So Not-Darth-Vader took his mask off and had a face.
>>63775674
What was the cringe worthy dialogue?
It was no where near the level of the prequels.
>>63775619
We still have two more movies to go m8
>>63775625
Nailed it then, sure, but intentionally shit is still shit.
>>63775653
He shows up as a huge hologram multiple times completely shown, not hidden.
It's dumb. It's all dumb.
>>63775700
>Master, it seems the force awakens.
I mean, come on.
>>63775565
what's it like? Hans just like "c'mon son gimmie the sabre"? Or like " I'm your dad now cut that out this instant"?
>>63775597
what does he actually say tho
>>63775700
It was written much better than the prequels. It's actually fairly good imo
>>63775619
That's the point. Rey refers to him in a "creature in a mask", believing that (like us, the audience) he has some kind of scarring or a hideous Palpatine-esque monster face. He then removes the helmet to show her and us he's just a regular ass dude. That adds more mystery to his character - why he wears the mask at all, why he obsesses over Vader, why he betrayed Luke and his family.
Plus it allowed him to properly emote during the Han death sceneand he did a great job.
>>63775748
Why the fuck are you in this thread? Why do you want it spelled out for you? Watch the movie for yourself, you fuck lizard.
>>63775787
Well he now has a reason to wear it.
>>63775700
"I have a bad feeling about this" was a groaner, but other than that, it's fine. He's memeing. The script is on par with any of the OT.
Star Wars ain't fucking Shakespeare, after all.
>>63773232
He reminds me of the Goth kids from south park. Dark and edgy for no reason whatsoever.
Being a tall lanky dweeb looking motherfucker didn't help.
>>63775787
Thiss'n hiss'n
>>63773548
An 8 year old with a machine gun sounds terrifying and unpredictable.
>>63775787
What mystery? It's implied and outright stated in the same movie that Vader is is husbando and he needs to be as powerful as him because... uh... power? The movie gets as far as explaining he wants power, and feels the need to kill his father, but does a real shitty job of explaining why he'd think that.
>>63775821
>"I have a bad feeling about this"
who said it in 7?
>>63775862
Han, it had to be him.
>>63775821
>the script is on par with any of the OT
Is that why Rey has no character development and there isn't a single quiet moment the entire film?
Because A New Hope, which this movie mirrors, has a great protagonist that grows a shit ton, and is FULL of quiet moments to let the audience take everything in while also letting the characters and world grow.
The dialogue isn't necessarily bad except the over emphasis on quips, but the general writing and directing is lackluster in comparison to the OT.
>>63775821
>le low expectations meme XDD
>>63775855
Maybe it's because it's the first fucking movie in a trilogy, dumbass. The next movie Luke will fucking tell you exactly what fucking happened.
>>63775841
Yes, until you take the machine gun away.
>>63775855
All we know is that Snoke convinced him to do it. It's not explained precisely why, but I guess to complete his transition to the dark side.
>>63775862
Did you not watch the movie?
>>63775799
I'm not gonna pay watch this trite none the less watch it at all
I was just curious gheesh
see this is why people call you guys faggots... Fucking "star wars"
>>63773232
>those fucking hissy fits he throws in the movie
I fucking loved that
>>63775901
Its not hard to figure out, though. Snoke got to someone on the inside, then people on the inside started playing with the dark side, then they decided they were all better than the others and took over. Fast forward and you have a handful of 'knights' who are absolutely confident that dark side > light side and that Luke is a pussy bitch who wants to run away from the dark side.
>>63773649
>.gif
Cmon m8 you can barely appreciate his moves with this 320x180 piece of shit
>>63775787
>Plus it allowed him to properly emote during the Han death scene and he did a great job.
he did a very good job delivering the lines he was given.
the trouble is that his character still doesn't work. we don't know why he hates Han beyond "the dark side" and given who is making these movies there will be no real explanation.
>>63775936
Nope, it sounds/looks terrible. Im just here to shitpost
>>63775901
I didn't expect to be told his life's story, you cock-sampler. I just expected to see some sort of motive. Everything Vader did in ANH was to crush the rebellion and preserve the empire while further motives and backstory was explored later. What was Solo's goal? To kill his father because I dunno. To find a map to Luke Skywalker that will help because I dunno. There's just nothing to work with here, besides setting up a sequel.
>>63773232
Did anyone elseinvoluntarily think of Plinkett when Kylo asked Han to "help him?" I think I have a problem.
>>63775902
Good fucking luck taking the toy away without getting shot.
>>63775947
Just admit you fucking like star wars, then fuck off and go watch it you clown.
>>63773232
shittiest sith apprentice that's what
>>63775884
>there isn't a single quiet moment the entire film?
I must have imagined all those scenes of her scavenging, bartering with the fat alien, cooking dinner, scarfing it down like a hungry animal. Surely none of those happened in the movie and didn't inform us at all to her character.
So there was no reason for the mask.
>>63776066
>bartering with the fat alien
Dexter Jettster is back! Awesome
>>63775988
his goal wasn't necessarily to kill his father, just to show that he was fully committed to dark side. symbolic gesture of devotion.
they also want to wipe out skywalker in case he starts training niggas.
Obviously ren's ultimate goal is to be a sith badass and control the galaxy,nothing changed there.
>>63776087
because he looks like a goober without it
>>63776066
>intro character scene
Stop
There was no development there, that was her fucking introduction.
>>63776066
We could've done without the rathtar attack and traded it in for a little more quiet time with Rey, Finn and Han.
I liked him, can't think of a lot of other "imperfect" villains who are sort of badass but also quite lacking in confidence in other areas at the same time. Him getting beat in the first movie might not be the best, but here's hoping he steps up his game in the next one.
>>63773694
exhausts, as seen when used like a blowtorch on finn
>>63776037
you'll never admit that star wars is trash
fucking grow up
just be honest about your choices, I am... I don't like star wars and I stopped liking that shit franchise over a decade ago
I was just curious about that reveal because I wanted to see how much of a cringey moment it was.. JJ is a hack
ps. You're gay
>>63776137
>someone goes from adept, lonely scavenger to unwilling participant in a foreign conflict to self-aware force sensitive willing to confront a massive task ahead of her
>no development
perhaps it could've been handled better, but I'm not sure you were paying attention.
>>63776087
"I have to be Vader!" basically is the reason
>>63776160
He was never a badass. He had one nifty trick where he stopped a blaster bolt. Everyone else did his killing for him, he had no disciplinary power or decisionmaking authority, and he spent his lonely nights talking to Vader's mask. He is so laughably tragic and pitiable he should be considered dark comedy.
>>63776160
>whiny
>badass
lol
>>63776151
Yeah that shit was stupid and bogged down the movie in a really pointless action scene. The whole movie needed more quiet scenes to character build, ala Ben's Hut, or traveling to Alderaan, or traveling to Yavin in episode IV, the movies intent on keeping the action constantly going (like the audience would fall asleep with out it) really hurt it.
>>63774116
>not a sith lord
>kills his dad and gets shot
>stormtrooper who is shown to be extra brave and pretty good @ melee gets a hit in
>random scavenger is the most OP character in star wars
>durr kylo a shit
it's not his fault family
>>63776160
i think the stepping up the game element will be the whole point of viii. each side of the coin getting stronger.
>>63775988
>What was Solo's goal? To kill his father because I dunno.
See >>63774843. It was a test by Snoke and he passed.
>To find a map to Luke Skywalker that will help because I dunno.
Because Luke has the potential to rebuild the Jedi order and fuck the New Order's shit up. This is also explained by Snoke. Did you just ignore all the dialogue in every scene he was in?
I also think you're giving Vader's motivation a little too much credit because you know the rest of his story. In ANH, his personal motive is ambiguous. We know he wants to destroy the rebellion because the Emperor tells him to. But why does he follow the Emperor? What does he have to gain from this?
You don't find out none of that shit til TESB. Be patient, man.
Major spoilers ahead:Han dying felt forced as fuck and was handled terribly. Leia and Chewy didn't even seem to fucking care.
>>63776224
>>63776227
Note the "sort of".
Point is, I think he was interesting because he wasn't just Vader 2.0, although he wanted to be, but was pretty damn flawed.
>>63776236
it was the whole reason han grew to trust those two as capable, rey saved finn's life a la luke and han in the OT.
plus, there's a place for action scenes in fantasy action films.
>>63776184
Star wars is fine. There's a lot wrong with the new film, but overall it's good.
I certainly don't have a curiosity about movies I don't like. Probably because I'm not an Autistic teen that has developed an identity around being a contrarian faggot.
The movie had problems, but all the new characters are actually really good. Kylo has his grandfather's teenage emotional outburst, except done right. The got emotional when Rey picked up the lightsaber tbg
>>63776151
Or with quiet time on the Falcon at any point.
Or on the not rebel base.
Or at the mystery planet (but instead GOTTA HAVE THE EMPIRE AMBUSH THEM) etc.
The movie lacks quiet time.
Dual orbiting star scene
Ben chat about his father
Cruising in the falcon towards Alderaan
etc.
>>63776203
You described a change in her occupation and a change in her abilities, not a change in her character.
"tough, super smart, agile girl with tons of force potential (though doesn't have any power yet) and knows she needs to use her abilities to protect others in harms way"
That describes Rey in the first 30 minutes of the movie, and it describes Rey in the last 5 minutes.
Nothing about her changes.
She is never an unwilling participant, she is the one telling Finn he needs to help.
>>63775571
He also spends half the movie whining and having temper tantrums with his lightsaver
go ahead and tell me hes not more cartoony
the fuckers also got the worst face that rivals Rey
>>63776277
>>63776278
>a lot wrong
>still good
kek
>>63773232
>I'm supposed to be the big bad guy of this movie but for some reason when ron weasley mixed with murray from flight of the conchords questions all of my orders I don't strangle him even once.
No.
>>63776281
why did you overlook her change in self-image and willingness to handle massive burden, which I cited?
you can criticize it for being handled poorly or being insignificant, but it 100% existed and constitutes a character change, pivoted when they went to see lupita.
>>63776252
>Chewie loses his shit, shoots Ren, several stormtroopers and blows up the base
>Sitting around sadly at the base later
>Leia hugs it out with Rey and looks heartbroken
>>Didn't care
Did you want them to mope around for 15 minutes or something.
>>63776252
The entire movie slowed down for it and it was foreshadowed way earlier in the movie with Snoke how was it forced? And Leia ( to best of Fischer's limited acting ability) is visibly pained by it, feeling it through the force from light years away, and Chewie goes on a fucking berserker rampage. I really wish people would actually pay attention to movies before bitching about them.
>>63776137
You are aware that character development takes place OVER the course of a film, right? Did you expect a full arc in her first ten minutes of screen time?
That anon said there were no "quiet moments". I pointed them out. I never said she was a perfectly developed character, but she still changes her motivation and attitude throughout the movie. She also becomes stronger and more understanding of the power she has. Isn't that how you define character development?
Because it's almost exactly the same arc that Luke went through in ANH.
>>63776268
But there's also a place for QUIET scenes when the OT thrived from them so much. It's literally what makes those movies so loved.
Luke starting at the two stars is one of the most memorable scenes in cinematic history.
There is no scene that comes even close to that here.
>>63776317
My problems were with the plot, which is sort of a pleb complaint. Characters are always a story's bread and butter, and this movie has really good characters
>>63776252
What the fuck did you want, a funeral scene where they fire his casket into space and Luke gives a heartfelt speech? He's fucking Han Solo. Who gives a shit?
>>63776328
Really? I thought character development took place in a vomit of expository dialog about the nature of storm troopers that nobody asked for in a completely superfluous cantina scene.
>>63776321
>why did you overlook her change in self-image and willingness to handle massive burden, which I cited?
Because that didn't happen.
She is never unwilling at all. She's fine with helping out the droid get to the town from pretty much the get go, she's fine with delivering him to the not rebels as long as she can go back to wait for Daddy, she's fine with delivering him further, then she's fine with helping find Luke because she realizes that's her daddy.
She does not grow as a character.
Compare her to Luke, who changes massively in a New Hope.
>>63776268
>it was the whole reason han grew to trust those two as capable,
Could've been handled by Rey and Fin saving him from the criminals in a much timelier manner, and the movie was way too action heavy, it could barely go five minutes with out a giant fuck off fire fight or spaceship battle, for comparison look at the older Star Wars movies, even the prequels, and you'll notice how there's usually only around 3 or 4 big action scenes throughout each movie.
>>63776354
I agree.
I liked it a lot, but it really just needed to slow the fuck down at times as you barely had time to process what the fuck was going on.
>>63776317
Yeah. It's implied in my sentence that although there is a lot that is wrong, there is much more than is right. Hence, overall, the movie comes out more positive than negative.
Do you need every point spelled out for you?
>>63776325
>>63776326Killing one of the most iconic characters in cinema isn't really the type of thing you want to play for subtlety or to understate it.
Chewie lost his shit, yeah, but save for literally one brief shot, we get no other insight into his emotions. This is his fucking brother. His friend for life. And Leia is his fucking wife.
It felt really lame.
>>63776277
I grew up with star wars, the child in me was curious
but honestly you're going to sit there (presumably as an adult born after 1994) and defend star wars as something that isn't for autistic people?
wtf?
>>63776328
>Because it's almost exactly the same arc that Luke went through in ANH.
Luke goes from a weak farmboy that is scared of being part of anything and only cares about himself to someone that realizes there are causes larger than life and he should use his abilities to help others.
Rey ALWAYS wants to help others, from start to finish.
It is not the same arc, please fuck off shill.
>>63776398
Are you having a brain aneurysm?
I loved the film. I honestly thought it was everything that it needed to be and more.
Fin was entertaining and loveable, Rey was a truly convincing heroine and her performance was measured and avoided the usual pitfalls of a female lead in an action flick.
Lea sucked but we all saw that coming.
Kylo was the most interesting villain I've seen in a long time and so much better than the one-dimensional caricatures we've had in the past.
I honestly feel that most of the hate for this film comes from /tv/'s need to vindicate their forecast. Which is fine because it makes it easy to dismiss.
People underestimate how difficult it is to make a Star Wars film in this day and age. I can only imagine the pressures placed upon JJ by the studio due to the political SJW climate, the massive budget and the legacy of the series as a whole. He did amazingly well.
My biggest gripe was the ending. I would have liked some sort of hint as to what Kylo's 'final training' was. The ending felt too sudden and didn't end on a joyous bang but I suppose it will work in the context of the saga.
Did the just kill him because Harrison Ford is old?
>>63776400
do you recall the scene when she saw the lightsaber, had a bunch of hallucinations, talked to lupita, said she didn't want any part of it and fled?
that's undeniably unwilling, i'm not sure what you were watching. It was sort of handled abruptly, I don't think they dealt with the turn too gracefully.
>>63776416
>movie is a massive pop culture phenomenon
>every one of the millions of people who like it is autistic.
>you must either be obsessed with it or dismiss it entirely. There is no room for a balanced appreciation
No John, you are the autism
>>63776413
The problem is that A) Han isn't the focus of the movie, so you can't sit there and give his death a ton of attention. B) The movies already jam packed with so much shit to the point of bursting that there really isn't enough time to do so. Given what the movie was I thought it handled Hans death adequately, and certainly so within the context of the story being told. Maybe you disagree, but I can't really help you with that.
>>63776475
She's unwilling to accept the power.
Being unwilling to accept power, then willing to accept it 5 minutes later isn't character growth. Her character doesn't change, just her willingness to use certain tools.
>>63776471
No they killed him for 2 reasons.
1. He was Obi-Wan to Rey and it's pottery so it rhymes
2. Nobody can be ambiguous in a star wars movie. You are either 100% evil or 100% good. He was the bad guy so couldn't possibly do anything else.
Also 3. Rumor is that harrison ford only agreed to be in the movie in the first place on the condition his character was killed. He doesn't like these movies.
>>63776461
>Rey was a truly convincing heroine and her performance was measured and avoided the usual pitfalls of a female lead in an action flick.
Top kek
>>63773551
Nah, he just comes across as someone who is easily butthurt.
And being able to upset someone easily means that person is easy to control.
I think a truly frightening character is someone who is secretly acting in his or her own self-interest with no loyalty to anyone...
or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVE7d-nR7_Y
>>63776522
This. She was good, but she's too small and feminine to be genuinely threatening with a lightsaber. It felt like political casting
>>63776508
I don't totally disagree that it did what it could, but I feel like it wasn't worthy of the character. The carbonite scene in Empire was more along teh lines of what I was hoping for in this sort of situation.
This felt like too little, too unimportant.
>>63776516
Ford wanted to be killed in Empire.
>>63776516
>Also 3. Rumor is that harrison ford only agreed to be in the movie in the first place on the condition his character was killed. He doesn't like these movies.
what a jackass.
>>63775632
Kek, legitimately an underrated post.
>>63776512
and take on challenges. did you want her to learn a new language, take up yoga and dabble in new-age medicine?
Again, I think the quick turn was handled poorly, but you cannot reasonably deny that her role and outlook altered drastically from start to finish, which is by definition the evolution of a character.
>>63776522
>>63776566
She was a country bumpkin that meant well. A perfectly relatable character, as opposed to a TOUGH GRILL with no flaws/weaknesses or a useless shit that exists for all the cute boys to fawn over her, like most female leads in action movies.Her being force sensitive was less of an asspull than Luke being a force sensitive ace pilot.
>>63775667
James bond had old female M for a long while
>>63776516
I think it's 3.
Do you seriously think Disney was happy to kill off Han Solo?
No more Han Solo toys?
>>63776516
it also was a symbolic shift to a new generation. luke will be important, but none of the old guard are going to keep being protagonists. its the hands of the young guns now, fanboys be damned.
>>63776630
No, I want her character to be scared of leaving at first. I want her to desperately cling to the planet. I want her to be willing to sell the droid. I want her to be hesitant to help Finn. I want her to be hesitant to deliver the droid.
I want her character to have some fucking flaws. And for god's sake I especially don't want her character to already be incredibly skilled in the first movie.
He seemed really powerful. Like more powerful than Vader.
>>63776635
>as opposed to a TOUGH GRILL with no flaws/weaknesses
But that's what we got
>>63773551
This
>>63776635
Also there's no scenes like "I AM NO MAN", or her suplexing a 250 lb male in front of a bunch of other men.
Really her character seems like they didn't write it with a certain gender in mind. The only time it's even acknowledged is when Finn tries hitting on her.
>>63776471
No, Han took the same role in this movie that Old Ben took in A New Hope. Now that he's dead, he will become more powerful than Kylo Ren can possibly imagine.
>>63776593
Like I said, Han, and his budding romance with Leia are at the core of the story in Empire, which is why Han being frozen in carbonite is given so much attention. Here he's not the focus, Fin, Rey, and Kylo are, his death in that scene is about what it means to those characters, similar to how Obi-wans death is handled in A New Hope.
>>63776664
Luke's gonna die too at some point. He's Yoda and it's pottery.
>>63776674
>scared of leaving, cling to the planet
remarked multiple times she needed (and intended) to return
>willing to sell the droid
was about to, backed out at last second
>hesitant to help finn
literally was, but quickly shifted on that
it was sloppily handled, but they literally tried to convey all the shit you are complaining didn't occur.
>>63776641
Well they made Han Solo in carbonite toys. Maybe they can make an "impaled Han Solo" figure, or a "falling to his death Han Solo".
>>63776709
But wasn't the point of re-writing Lucas's script to make this movie a proper send off for the old characters?
This seems like such a cheap way to take Han out of the mythos. He deserved more.
>>63776664
>its the hands of the young guns now, fanboys be damned.
Thank god for that, I think only Hamill is actually in to it now, Harrison gave a good performance, but he obviously wants to put acting behind him, and Fischer is wooden as fuck. They couldn't hold a new trilogy together if they tried, their time has passed.
I really liked it overall. Main gripes though
>Could've used a few more slow scenes, with things constantly feeling hectic
>Needed fewer villains, like just cut out the silver stormtrooper lady if you're not going to do anything with her anyway
>More bro moments between Finn and Poe
>Rey hardly feeling like she had any real weaknesses
And I guess maybe not being so dependent on the OT. Not that they needed to go completely off track, but it just felt like a reskin of ANH and the OT in most departments.
>>63776566
>Too small and feminine
>"Size matters not"
I'm amazed someone who has watched Star Wars would think that physical prowess means anything to force users. She could be a 3 foot tall midget with a receding hairline for all that matters. If you have a strong connection to the force then you can pull off amazing shit no matter what.
dat feel when they ripped off han's death from the worst star wars game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5wCzrk5q2o
>>63776504
you act as if millions on people liking something is good
>religion
>politics
>Justin beiber
>"when.." memes
you're point is shit
peoples iqs lower when in large groups btw so you might want to stay in your moms basement forever just incase. You don't want to be more retarded now do ya?
>>63776723
>remarked multiple times she needed (and intended) to return
But she didn't cling to the planet at all. She was perfectly okay with leaving, as long as she could go back. She also only wanted to go back because she thought her Dad would come back, but realized later her Dad was waiting for her elsewhere. That's not a character growth, that's just new information being presented.
>was about to, backed out at last second
No she wasn't. She was never about to. She was tempted, but her character, unchanged, chose not to for moral reasons that were never developed.
>literally was, but quickly shifted on that
She was never hesitant. Saying she's hesitant and showing it are two very different things.
It's like in Attack of the Clones we keep hearing how fucking awesome of friends Obi Wan and Anakin are, but in every scene they fucking hate each other.
>>63776756
I didn't have a problem with Captain Phasma. It was the marketing which built her up, not the movie.
>>63773232
>Best villain
He's complete shit, Darth Snape with edgelord emo-goth syndrome.
>>63776679
I think he's more showy. Vader oozed power, you always felt like he could kill you with a thought, Ren on the other hand bandies it about wildly, making massive displays so that he feels powerful. Vader chokes you slowly and with purpose, Ren violently tears at your mind. Vader effortless deflects blaster bolt and disarms you, Ren freezes the bolt then struts around you to flaunt his power.
Vader never need to prove was powerful, he knew he was and acted like it, Kylo Ren feels like he has to prove his power at every turn less he feels powerless.
>>63776795
They cant even make good star wars video games anymore. I really wanted this series to be over and finished
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg_FoEy8T_A
>>63776817
Did Rey even say the "I'm no one" from the trailer in the movie?
>>63773232
how much incandescent heat do lightsabers give off
seems like her face would be melting
>>63773232
Oh not to mention he got physically overpowered by a girl during a saber lock. If a girl beat me at an armwrestle I would kill myself. in b4 "he was injured! he was emotionally tormented!" and other bullshit.
>>63776789
You probably liked Yoda using a saber, too.
Size matters not in terms of power level, but it should change how that power manifests
>>63776899
No. Also the shot of Maz Canata handing Leia Luke's lightsaber never happens either.
>>63776748
No the purpose of this movie was to bridge the gap between the old and new and lay a foundation for the story of our new characters. It is not about sending off the old characters, they had their time, their purpose is now to establish the current torch bearers of the franchise.
I feel like the closest previous Star Wars character to Kylo is actually Juhani from KOTOR.
He's clearly some confused kid who did something in the past which pushed him towards the dark side, and he's decided that there's no going back. Now he hangs around with all these dark side guys, feeling content to push around weaker opponents while convincing himself that this is what he really wants, that he's really truly evil, even going so far as to begin looking to his grandfather (arguably one of the most feared and reviled characters in the galaxy) for inspiration.
The only problem is that he's still not convinced. He keeps hearing the call of the light side and seeing it as a sign of weakness. There's no way he could go back with all the evil he's committed. So he decides he has to do something really big and really evil to cement his place on the dark side: kill his father.
>>63776819
are you denying that they poorly tried to convey those things?
>>63776917
By writing in throw away deaths for the characters we know and love?
I know this is basically like Ben dying while Luke watched, but for Rey. But to the audience, Han means more than that.
It's just disappointing to see him go like this.
The movie was good, but this breaks my heart.
>>63776884
Back to reddit, faggot.
>>63775947
Why the fuck are you in a star wars thread then faggot
>>63776908
I don't think you can dismiss the reasons for something just because you don't like them. He was injured. They made a point of showing it.
TFA Kylo Ren> ANH Vader
you know it to be true
Kylo who have been a way threatening and better villain if they allowed him to beat Rey and Finn. The resistance have already gotten their victory in the destructive of the starkiller base. Abram/Disney could have allowed Rey to be beaten and right before he lands the final blow, the ground splits apart like it did in the movie separating the two.
This would make Kylo a much more fearsome villain, increase the tension between the two and better the build up. Too bad wishing for good writing from Disney is a pipe dream.
>>63776883
i'm still not over what they did to the KOTOR series
and it's been like ten years
>>63776789
It doesn't matter for Yoda, but Yoda wasn't about fighting in the original trilogy. Physical prowess matters for the scenes where you're beating guys up
>>63776982
Vader got btfo'd in ANH
>>63776999
This isn't ANH senpai.
>>63776926
AIYEE VILL BE YOHR DOOOOOOM
>>63776982
He fucked finn up pretty good
>>63776978
His injuries didn't seem to affect him during his fight with Nignog McStormtrooper. Plus movie magic aside the emotion, rage and pain would have amplified his abilities if anything since the Dark Side of the Force is fed by that kind of stuff. Anakin was literally on fire and not screaming in pain, in his rage he just wanted to tear Obi-Wan apart.
>>63776999
But he always had the upper hand.
Kylo was at a disadvantage for the entire fight because he was injured and in turmoil over killing his father. Which I liked, but he wasn't very intimidating compared to Vader in ANH.
>>63776961
You have bested me.
>>63776884
>ugly fat bitch meme actress with no talent getting roles because of stupid meme show she is on watched by millions who have no taste
thanks for proving my point anon, seriously you post her of all people to try to condescend? Well this is a thread about some shit meme movie I shouldn't be surprised
>>63776974
why are you talking to me if I'm a faggot? Oh yea you're butthurt about you're stupid fucking childish nostalgia trip getting shat on by reality
if you read the rest of my post you would know why this whole shit talking started retard
>>63776982Rey pulling the saber past him was one of the best scenes in the movie to me. Got me so hyped to see her push his shit in.
>>63777035
>because he was injured and in turmoil over killing his father.
This is bullshit, stop repeating this shit meme perpetuated by SJW ledditards
There is no basis for the "turmoil over killing his father" at all anyway. He didn't show one ounce of remorse.
>>63777020
Everyone expected Finn to be fucked up. Finn lost to a random Stormtrooper. Rey beating Kylo was stupid as fuck when the opposite would have been 10 times more believable and setup for a even greater latter episodes where Rey is the underdog.
>>63777035
Vader was kind of a fuckin tool in ANH, I mean... did he even really do much?
>>63773551
This
fucking off contrarians, stop attaching the word 'bitch' or 'whiney' to any villain who isn't boring and stoic.
>>63777035
Wouldn't his emotions being in turmoil make him stronger? That's the whole dark side schtick
>>63777066
There is literally a scene where he prays to vader about how he is in turmoil because of his father, you fucking retard.
