why couldn't he have been better. why did JJ make him so weak he lost to someone ho had never even used a lightsaber before, baka.
HE WAS JUST SHOT BY A FUCKING BOWCASTER MOMENTS BEFORE
HOLY SHIT YOU'RE DUMB
>>63770460
Because hes white.
>>63770582
>being a jedi woth your saber unsheathed
>getting hit by a single blaster shot
JJ Abrams lynching when?
>>63770582
he stopped Poes shot from hitting him at the village, why didn't he fucking stop Chewbaccas?
>>63770726
Because he justSTABBED HIS FUCKING FATHERand was probably a bit distracted
Holy shit you people are so stupid it's painful
>>63770460
who is this muslim man? I thought only girls wear hijabs
>>63770793
This
The force requires concentration
>>63770637
Kylo was in battlemode and blasters are pretty slow
that beginning scene was GOAT though
that brutal murder of the old dude and holding the blast for like 2 minutes as well as instantly finding the spic
>>63770460
He lost on purpose.
>>63770460
Why did JJ cast a twink lanklet who's Lena Dunham's slave?
Rey is a Mary Sue
But seriously I think he was holding back because he saw potential for Rey to be trained in the Dark Side, and he was just fucked up by the Bowcaster which would literally launch people
He is nothing but a pampered little prince who has never been in a fair fight, while Ray is someone who had to survive in a harsh desert getting into fights with sand people.
His light-saber was also a shitty mock-up that cannot compare with the fine craft of the old Jedi Knights.
S T R O N G E R F E M A L E
>>63770726
>he stopped Poes shot from hitting him at the village, why didn't he fucking stop Chewbaccas?
Because he was mentally disturbed time after killing his father.
Feminism > White Patriarchy
Isn't it obvious OP?
Well lets see
Kylo
>Just shot by Chewie and is bleeding badly
>More minor injuries sustained during his fight with Finn
>Just killed his dad and is not in a good mental wellbeing
>Physically exhausted
>Extremely cocky despite being not that great
>Losing his temper and making mistakes constantly
Rey
>Stronger with the force than Kylo
>Well trained with a quarterstaff so she at least has some combat training
>mfwshe can jedi mid trick with no training or prior knowledge it's even possible
>mfwshe can us force magic with no training or prior knowledge it's even possible
>mfwshe's a master with a light sabre w/ no training
Fucks sake, shekicks the shit out of kylo in their first fight
Luke didnt even fight Vader till the second movie and he got his ass kicked.
Lazy writing
>>63770460
Nigga, you do realize he GOT SHOT before taking down someone who proceeded to add a few cuts on him, and was basically worn out by the time he was about to take down Rey. ALSO, he wanted to convert Rey, not kill her. Get your facts right.
>>63771142
What if she is the lost daughter of Luke or Leia and got a bit of training before being stolen by gypsies?
>>63771142
THIS.
>>63771189LUKE. She isREY SKYWALKER.
Rey was a child who was trained by Luke and survived Kylo's massacre of the Jedi Academy. She had her memory wiped and was placed on Jakku after the incident.
>>63771189
Might want to inform your audience in some way.
>>63771230
>As a little girl
>>63771142
>Luke didnt even fight Vader till the second movie and he got his ass kicked.
And compared to Vader, there was no reason why he should have defeated him in episode six. Anakin was a Jedi Master/Sith Apprentice for literally decades. Luke studied with Yoda for a few months and is suddenly able to take him down?
Star Wars is full of big baddies jobbing to the next "chosen one".
>>63770460
Hes only going to get more powerful now that his father is not a weakness to him and Snoke will finish his training
also with the introduction of Luke and his hate for Rey
>>6377123
But she wasn't even aware that Luke was anything a myth. She just all her jedi training she got from him though?
>>63771189
Just because you can explain why she is OP doesn't take away the complete removal of tension. When the hero is such a badass prodigy that she can master light sabre combat in seconds and has access to whatever force powers she needs at whatever moment it just removes any fucking tension.
>>63771269
Why? The original trilogy had plenty of shit that wasn't revealed until the second or third film.
>>63771302
And Rey will become more powerful now that presumably Luke will teach her. I just can't see Kylo being even remotely a threat anymore
>>63770460
I like to believe he's supposed to be weak in this first movie. Maybe he'll become stronger and more mature in the next ones now that he's killed his father and has almost been beaten to death
Well /tv/, you were right.
Movie was complete shit. Lazy writing, always having to remind us of shit. Fucking Rey being so badass immediately with zero fucking training. The fact they glimpse over all of the shit that happened to Luke after Jedi. Yeah I wasn't even closely impressed.
The first order should just give up now seeing that it took her less than 24 hours to become a Jedi Master, in a fucking week from now she will be running this shit.
>>63771142
Her first fight with Kylo she got her ass kicked effortlessly and taken prisoner.
You guys are retarded. She won because she had more hatred and emotion in her than kylo + he was injured. Doesn't mean she's dark side, means she's borderline dark side like Mace Windu. He was the strongest jedi with a lightsaber for a reason, because of serious passion. She did the same thing. During their fight she even made it a point to grit her teeth as if she was mad.
>>63771425
More hatred than a guy who just fucking killed his father?! GTFO!
>>63771269
>Might want to inform your audience in some way.
It's heavily implied.
>>63771377
He only looks weak when you compare him to Rey. The movie portrays him as a badass when he fights anyone else.
>>63771301
Luke defeated Vader by giving into his hate. When given to strike him down, Luke regains control of himself and refuses to give into the dark side.
Up to that point it's not clear whether or not Luke is going to succumb tot he dark side. It's final rejection of the dark side and the completion of his character arc.
Rey being a fucking innate master jedi serves no purpose in the story except....girl power.
Well done Jew Jew Abrams
>>63771142
Don't forget the whole. Oh I know how to fix this leak. Hand over the tools silly boi :3
Or finishing Hans sentences about some dumb light speed shit on the millennium falcon.
Or bypassing some bullshit while they're in hyperspace.
Kylo was still a padawan too the fight was more of a brawl
and Rey already knew how to fight with a stick so it wasn't a completely foreign concept
ppl dont need X hrs to become X good if she was mad force sensitive she could pick it up quicker
>>63771310
It's established very early on that the force is strong in her. She has probably been using it all her life without knowing it.
>>63771356
He's already a threat though. When he's not fucking shot in the side by one of the most powerful handheld blasters in the franchise and not dealing with having just killed his goddamned father, he can stop goddamned plasma shots with the force.
Can we just all agree that Poe Motherfucking Dameron should have been the main character?
So what happened to the "knights of ren"?
Where was that shot with him and the other knights in the rain in the movie?
Was there any reference as to where the other guys are?
Are they all working for Snoke or what?
>>63771447
Yes, he was weak to begin with for being indecisive about it.
>>63771425
How the fuck is she more hateful and full of emotion than the guy who just killed his dad in a fucking anger rage tear session. no fucking way btfo.
>>63771479
>girl power.
Honestly /tv/cucks decrying feminism every time a female in a movie is competent is just as bad as every feminist decrying sexism every time cleavage is shown in a movie.
>>63771421
When all she had was a blaster and no knowledge of the force.
Then he tries to brain fuck her and she turns into a fucking master of the shit.
>>63771514
They'll probably come up in the next movies. Foreshadowing yo
Why didn't Ren just use the force to take fins light saber
>>63771447
>More hatred than a guy who just fucking killed his father
Maybe she killed her parents and then also killed her adoptive parents and the next ones too.
>>63771521
indecisive about killing your>>63771509
dad, wow wonder why
>>63771514
The knights were shown in a flashback dream sequence when Ray touches lukes lightsaber.
Other than that there was no mention.
It seemed like Rey tapped into the Dark Side to finish off Kylo. The way she started to stab and bludgeon him was very reminiscent of the way Luke batters Vader in ROTJ before he regains control of himself.
>>63770460
Yeah, pretty disappointed all around with him if he's supposed to be the new villain. He has a really soft voice and reminds so so much of Hayden Christensen's acting.
Also he not only was taking hits from someone who can't use the Force, he also then lost to someone who was just learning about using the Force for the first time after he had not only been trained by Luke in the Force but also in lightsaber combat.
How did he and like five other guys kill that entire academy of Jedi students like himself if this is all he's got? This is some jobbing typical of the prequels really. It would have been much better if he absolutely demolished Finn like when he knocked him down with one blow, then proceeded to do the same to Rey after a bit of toying around to show what an imposing threat he is supposed to be and they both have to be saved by Chewbacca firing the Falcon cannons or something. As it is we basically have someone who we're told is super bad-ass and hardcore and killed all these Jedi, but when it comes time to throw down he gets embarrassed.
Other than Ben Solo though, the movie was good and enjoyable outside of like a handful of lines. I even like Rey and Po and BB so that's nice.
>>63770988
Why did you buzzword buzzword buzzword?
Am I crazy, or did he look really, really young? It almost took me out of the movie when he took off the mask, seems like he'd get carded trying to buy a pack of space-cigarettes.
>>63771602
He sounded like Anton from no country for old men
>>63771558
>Honestly /tv/cucks decrying feminism every time a female in a movie is competent is just as bad as every feminist decrying sexism every time cleavage is shown in a movie.
You don't understand, women are inherently inferior to men and should all be enslaved, they are barely human beings.
A strong woman is nothing but Jew propaganda to destroy the white race. It doesn't exist in the real world.
>>63770828
you're bad at this
>>63770887
Surely you're not saying "I'll show YOU the dark side" wasn't easily on level with TDKR airplane sequence? I thought I was going to get punched for laughing at that line as long as I did.
>>63771549
It was fucking obvious during the whole movie she still felt for her past and what happened and it all came out during the fight. Did you not even see the way she stabbed at Kylo just like Palpatine stabbed? She even grit her teeth like him.
>>63770460
Why do people still act as if jedi/sith are some godlike beings?
They are strong in 1:1 and against a rather small number or enemies, making them worth a bunch of soldiers in firepower. They are basically like highly overtrained elite soldiers with some magic sprinkles.
But:
Every movie has proven by now that they get rekt when ambushed or overwhelmed.
Now you got a Vader fanboy that dropped out of Lukes Academy and now "learns" under a Sith Lord, and just look at how bad Siths are at choosing their "apprentices". On top of that, they dont teach them anything and just leech upon teachings of real actual Jedi.
Sith are like college dropouts that pick the niftiest , best looking tricks and fun facts out of science papers to impress others.
So if anything, his skills propably became worse after running away with Darth Voldemort, as from then on he only bullied rather weak (or non force sensitive) people with force tricks.
He sure as hell did not get anymore practice with actual lightsaber fighting.
While strong-independent-woman main character at least put her staff to work.
He cant even craft a proper lightsaber.
>>63771269
It's a clear set up for another I am your father moment in Star Wars 8 The First Order Strikes Back
>>63771602
The real deal is Snoke, Kylo might even turn good later on.
>>63771142
I'm pretty sure she had made it clear during the scene on the millenium falcon that she had heard stories. She was not entirely unaware of Jedi tricks.
>>63771669
>tfw people legitimately believe what started as memes on /pol/
>>63771602
The main hero of the film needs to do something heroic m8.
>>63771705
This. Rey tapped into the Dark Side without meaning to, and that's what allowed her to beat Kylo. She's probably stronger in the Force than him.
>>63770793
Holy shit people like you will rationalize anything rather than admit there are story flaws, it's so stupid it's painful
>>63771669
Slow down and breath Anon, you haven't been outside or getting fucked enough lately to be honest.
>>63771705
Maybe she is the lost daugther ofDarth Jar Jar.
>>63771745
>might
He's going to be redeemed, it's so fucking obvious they're not even bothering to hide it.
>>63771301
Anakin didn't really want to fight him and Luke only won when he gave into his rage and the dark side powered him.
>>63771558
I don't give a shit the protagonist is a women. It's that power should be earned and tempered as part of her character arc.
But lets look at all the power she has that she did absolutely nothing to gain
1. force magic
2. jedi mind tricks
3. apparently better with a light than someone who has been training presumably since he was a child
4. incredible pilot who apparently know just as much about how to fix the millenium falcon than Han fucking Solo.
Anything else I missed?
>>63771718
>Why do people still act as if jedi/sith are some godlike beings?
Because the Jedi are basically superheroes in the prequels.
You have to remember that most people on /tv/ are prequel kids.
>>63771484
She had been working with the millennium falcon for a long time while it was in that junkyard, she knew it well for the same reason she knew imperial technology well
>>63771669
Nice strawman, faggot.
>>63771794
If she became evil that would honestly turn this trilogy around so fast for me. I have my doubts that these movies will be anything but "safe" like this one though.
I still think Snoke has a chance to be Jar Jar.
>>63771832
>He's going to be redeemed, it's so fucking obvious they're not even bothering to hide it.
Maybe not, in Looper Old Joe never turns good.
He'd just killed his father and was trying to get through the internal conflict between the light and the dark side. So he got shot and was actively bleeding. He was emotionally compromised. He was already pissed off by Rey BECAUSE this new force user was getting the drop on the First Order. As we saw in Jedi when Vader pissed off Luke, he completely lost his composure. It also didn't help that Kylo Ren was basically a fucking psychopath. It's really not a stretch that he lost that fight.
>>63771824
That's pretty obvious, where do you think we are?
>>63771898
This. The only way this series would salvagable in my eyes is if she turns to the dark side and Kylo Ren has a "redemption" character arc like Vader.
Something interesting like that,
>>63771866
Yeah they are kinda like superheroes "light".
But I mean even in the prequels they get rekt left and right by normal soldiers, bounty hunters, hell there is even a fucking ROBOT that kills jedi for the lulz.
Leaving out the few more powerful examples. the average Jedi from the prequels isnt far above "normal" people.
>>63771849
I think Kylo knows she is his sister.
>>63771984
Snoke clearly covets her. I bet now that he knows she exists, and probably suspects what she is, he doesn't even want Kylo any more.
Them switching places isn't out of the question. Remember, Kasdan is writing all these movies, and he loves this shit.
>>63771832
I can see that happening easily but I can also see JJ killing him off, and even more easily becoming good at the last second, exactly like vader did
>>63771898
>>63771984
She should turn evil if she can't control her emotion via luke's training, and then it ends up being Finn that has to put her down.
Now THAT would be fun. Especially if maybe she had to kill kylo to become snoke's main apprentice.
>>63771858
1. She is a prodigy with the force.
2. See first point.
3. Lightsabers are just melee weapons, she probably has been in more real fights than Kylo.
4. She was a pretty shitty pilot, she had to use the force to saver herself and Finn.
It's established in the first act of the film that she knows how to brawl and that she knows how to pilot vehicles and ships. But the force is what makes her more capable than your average scavenger.
If you are white and support this piece of shit cultural marxist propaganda "film" you are a brainless brainwashed faggot ass sellout c.uckold pile of garbage.
Fuck you and your mother.
>>63771866
That was one of the great things about this movie, how much it completely disregarded the prequels. The term Sith is off-handedly mentioned, and in the context that they were just another evil organization which diminishes them, and then we saw Coruscant get blown the fuck up. Even Han Solo couldn't cheat his way through the amount of distance this movie makes from the prequels.
>>63771777
They did tonnes of heroic shit.
Even standing up to him was heroic of her to save Finn.
In Empire Strikes Back Luke does lots of hero stuff and goes to save his friends, gets his ass fucking handed to him by Darth Vader. That didn't diminish him being the hero in the slightest, in fact it's one of the things that made the movie so great. And it also established why Vader is threatening, as soon as Luke got a lucky blow in on his shoulder he disarmed Luke in seconds.
I loved it when we learned who Kylo Ren really is, and his attitude and mannerisms up to that point suddenly became clearKylo is literally just an edgy try-hard teenager
>>63771878
If you weren't insecure you wouldn't be afraid of getting mocked for your retrograde views.
I mean Kylo was so insecure that he got beat by a fucking girl.
>>63772118
That wasn't Coruscant.
>>63771858
As for point number 4...
It's been well demonstrated throughout the EU (and in actual canon) that force users are natural pilots, and often excel as pilots. As for her mechanical adeptness, shes a damn scavenger. From there why is it so hard to believe that she knows how things work? She knows how to fix them, how to make them work, how to make them valuable. She's spent her entire post-toddler life picking through starships on a desert planet. Is it so fucking hard to believe she has great mechanical understanding? And fucking besides, E4-E6 show us that Han is barely keeping the Flacon together as it is; he's just lucky that the damn ship is rugged enough to survive the abuse he gives it.
>>63771992
Did they ever did something interesting with those rolling robots? They always show up to fuck up Jedi but it never leads to anything interesting.
>>63772189
Wasn't it? It sure looked like it. They said that planet was where the senate was located. I know they called the system of planets something different, but how was that not Coruscant?
>>63771142
>prior knowledge it's even possible
What makes you say that? Jedi are legends, and the shit they could do is probably a household wive's tale that everyone in the galaxy has heard.>you find out you can use the force
>you immediately think of all that bullshit you've heard jedi can do
>you're trapped in an interrogation room and the only way out is to use one of those force tricks>"Oh but i've never been trained I might as well not even try"
this is you
>>63770460
-Light wins over Dark
-he was hurt
-Rey had experience with her stick
Stop looking for reasons to hate the movie
>>63772107
Jokes on you I am a Latino.
Come on, guys. He's a Vader-wannabe, a child who throws tantrums. He was never very good.
BTW Ray did have melee training. She fought with a staff, remember?
I'm perfectly okay with Kylo Ren being weak. It's shown consistently that he's pretty much incompetent and insecure, for fucks sake he throws temper tantrums. He's not Vader, he's essentially the edgy goth tryhard kid with daddy issues.
Leia was barely force sensitive. All the power was on Lukes side of the family it seemed (excluding expanded universe fuckery but that doesn't count). Luke had no more than 20 minutes of training with Obi-Wan before he eventually met yoda but otherwise came to his powers primarily through instinct (trust your feelings, luke).
Leia's son was mediocre and half-assed. He learned a few dark side tricks but he wielded his lightsaber like a child with a stick. He was just a spoiled twink who merely tasted power.
Luke's Daughter was a more naturally gifted force user like her father and she was also an experienced fighter. She had heard the stories about what the Jedi could do and the rest came naturally. Like her father she was guided to use the force instinctively.
Not all jedi (or force users) are created equal.
>>63772296
I dont hate the movie I thought it was good apart from this and Deathstar 3.0, it just feels like "Why even bother".
>>63771269
The fuck? The whole scene with 'LUKE SKYWALKER'S LIGHTSABER IS CALLING TO YOU" too subtle for you?
>>63772129
Empire was a sequel that was subverting the expectations set by Star Wars. I think they want the heroes in the first movie to feel like more traditional heroes who win at the end.
>>63772288
Its lazy writing.
Even in the originals Jedi's are myths.
It takes training from both Obiwon and Yoda for Luke to do that shit that she is doing innately, with no training.
And all throughout Lukes training he contstantly warned that with great ppower comes the threat of the dark side.
I guess you're born into the right family you can just be "force prodigy" ...so fucking stupid
>>63772260
>Wasn't it? It sure looked like it. They said that planet was where the senate was located. I know they called the system of planets something different, but how was that not Coruscant?
To me it looked like Coruscant but who knows, maybe it was a different planet just to fuck up with people.
I hope it was Coruscant though, it makes it feel more meaningful, regardless if you like the prequels or not.
>>63772401
>that shit that she is doing innately, with no training.
You mean that shit Luke was doing at the beginning of Empire? That shit that he'd learned with no real training because Obi-Wan had died before he could teach it?
>>63771142>Rey
>spends her entire life fighting over junked starships to barely make a living, meaning knowledge over machinery and how to fight is almost literally her bread and butter>Ben
>attacks the people who are training him when he's fairly young
I bet you think those karate classes you took when you were a teenager will help you in a real fight.
>>63772395
Yeah and it wasn't handled well.
Blowing up the enemy base is winning in the end. Unfortunately they decided to go further and make the extra win come at the cost of any tension from their villain on screen going forward when he was already not really that threatening to begin with. It's probably the biggest structural problem with the movie.
>>63772435
>I hope it was Coruscant though, it makes it feel more meaningful
That was largely why I automatically assumed it was Coruscant. Some random planet would have had less meaning.
>>63771810
Even Snoke had doubts about him doing it and throughout the film he couldn't keep his shit together. Of course he would be distracted. Calm down autist.
>>63772435
I pretty clearly saw a large body of water in one of the few shots of the planet, and there are no oceans or large lakes on Coruscant.
She closed her eyes and focused her untrained force powers into fighting thru meditation. (Bastilla from KotOR anyone?)
Kylo Ren was a wreckless, arrogant fighter who himself had not completed his training. He lacked discipline and that's what got him.
>>63772460
>You mean that shit Luke was doing at the beginning of Empire?
He also uses the force at the end of Star Wars to direct the missiles.
>>63772460
>That shit that he'd learned with no real training
you mean force-pulling things and cutting off a snow beasties hand off?
any actual fighting was after spending a lot of time with Yoda.
>>63772517
Oh. It's a good thing Force Awakens had already established Rey as a competent fighter early on in the movie, then. Otherwise it would have been a total asspull when she fucks Kylo Ren up.
>>63772460
He was trained by Yoda in Empire and didnt finish his training, hence getting his ass kicked by vader because he wasnt ready. He goes back and finishes his training between the 2nd and thrid film and can still only defeat vader when he gives into his hate.
>>63772484
Anti-climatic resolutions is a theme through the entire ending of the film. Phasma turns out to be an unloyal bitch, Kylo turns out to be a pussy.
The real enemies are Hux and Snoke.
>>63772484
Kylo is obviously not the big villain.
even if you want to argue that rey beating kylo makes sense because she's a prodigy.... how the fuck did finn last more than 2 seconds?
i don't give a fuck if kylo was hurt and emotional, that nig should've been disarmed in 2 swipes
>>63772490
Yeah but they did the same with Tatooine and Jakku.
FUCK ALL OF YOU LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THE MOVIE
>be a fledgling new republic
>center literally all of your power around the planets of a single system, with your whole fleet stationed there
>meanwhile because of an iron curtain you can't tell what your enemies are doing a few systems over
>oh fuk we got rekt
Are we just going to ignore that build up for Phasma and how they literally tossed her in the trash?
>>63770460
actually ....
she's luke's daughter
she was a bad ass as a 5 or 6 year old and luke wiped her memories before dropping her off on jakku.
he was supposed to come back for her (hence the expression when he sees her in the end)
btw why did luke become some kind of faggot pussy? he's like alpha male big dick swinging after ROTJ. WHAT THE FUCK PUSSIFIED HIM??? SERIOUSLY if the knights of ren attacking pussified him why? he should of been like padwans this is how you fuck shit up.
goddammit jarjar stop cucking white people in your movies.
>>63772614
Because kylo a shit, that's why
>>63772495
Coruscant was the political center of the old Republic though and the seat of the senate. It would be weird if they moved it to another planet for no good reason.
>>63770460
Because he hadn't been Sith for long, he wasn't very powerful and had no experience dueling.
>>63770637
He didn't expect any enemies to be around and he was focused on what he had just done
>>63772627
Though it was disappointing to see her so underused, I'm assuming she'll be a major player in Episode VIII
>>63772299
>Jokes on you I am a Latino.
SO HE FLEW HIS XWING OVER THE WALL?
BUILD FORCE WALL NOW!
>>63771810
And then there's people like you, who instead of using their brains, will try to find any flaw where it's more easy to find. (hurr the movie didn't make this clear enough, don't they know the rule "pretend i'm an idiot"?)
You're grasping at straws, dude,
cuck desu baka
>>63772577
>He goes back and finishes his training
He doesn't though, Yoda is on his death bed when Luke comes back.
>>63771810
He was distracted, though. That's a fact. He is literally not paying attention to anything else when he gets shot.
The first 6 films are filled with examples of powerful force users getting fucked up because they allowed themselves to lose focus.
Holy fuck if you can't keep up with a movie written for children, you should probably just stop voicing your worthless opinions.
>>63772584
Yes, and that's poorly done.
Kylo killed an entire academy of Jedi in training, when he was also a Jedi in training, and then went on to be trained under Darth Pla- Snoke. Him being beaten by Rey, even injured, is just badly handle characters. It's the only thing I have issue with in the movie really. Even BB-88 wasn't an annoying shit.
>>63772601
Which doesn't make it any less of a mishandling. He's supposed to be an imposing presence in place of the looming threat's absence. But he wasn't after the first scene. Basically the only impressive or intimidating thing he ever pulled in the whole film was stopping the blaster shot from Po.
Kylo is a shit, it's part of the story
his lightsaber is broken because he lacks the force sensitivity to build it right.
>>63772614
Finn was probably trained to use those stun batons that Stormtroopers have.
>>63772627
That's the joke, she is the Bobba Fett of the new trilogy. A useless prop in shiny armor.
>>63772717
>He's supposed to be an imposing presence
Lol no. Pay attention. Kylo is an edgelord who desperately wants to be like his big bad grandpa, but he's shit at it. He throws childish tantrums at multiple points in the movie. Snoke is the real bad guy, Kylo is just an errand boy.
>>63772725
Is that a theory or was it mentioned at any point in the movie that that is the reason why his lightsaber is shit?
>>63772701
He actually entered through a hole in the wall, just like what would happen in the real world.
>>63772781
It's from the visual guide.
>>63772717
>Kylo killed an entire academy of Jedi in training
He was probably the best recruit, and Luke was probably a shit teacher.
>>63772781
He made it himself without knowing to
Yeah, this was my only real gripe with the movie. He'd been training his whole life in the force, and she suddenly masters within 2 minutes and overpowers him with it.
The original franchise made it a huge point that it took a ton of training before you could get people to do your bidding using the force, like serious upper level shit, and it's literally the first thing she does with it.
Other than that, though, I loved the movie. This is just a nit-picky thing.
>>63772777
The movie has absolutely presented him as an imposing presence, he beats every foe he encountered, Han states that Snoke wants him for his power, its implied he killed an academy of Jedi. Its only when he meets Rey that he looks like a loser.
>>63772835
Kylo wasn't alone. He had a whole squad of Ren knights with him, and I bet Luke wasn't there when it happened. It's probably why he went into exile. He blames himself for not being able to save them.
tfw even though it is a childish hope that would make for a shitty time I'm hoping boba fett comes back and takes on a grudge against kylo for killing a worthy foe
>>63772437
>Rey becoming "in tune" with the force like that despite no prior training or knowledge was fucking absurd.
Luke did the exact same thing. Ob-Wan gave him no real training besides vague "trust your feelings" comments. Luke disabled his own targeting computer and let the force guide his actions to destroy the first deathstar. He also pulled his saber from the ice on hoth without ever seeing a Jedi use telekinesis before.
Luke was 100% instinct before he met yoda, and with yoda he only really got in a few days of training before leaving to confront vader the first time.
The biggest lesson luke learned was to release his own limitations with the "size matters not" speech. The only limit to lukes power was his limited imagination of what was possible and what was not.
Rey awoke as a force user simply after Solo told her "it was all real. All those stories about the light and the dark". She had her first vision shortly after when she touched lukes saber. She was far more open minded with the force and less inhibited than Luke was.
>>63772870
>The movie has absolutely presented him as an imposing presence
The movie clearly presented him as a Vader-wannabe.
> he beats every foe he encountered
He didn't encounter anyone worth mentioning.
>Han states that Snoke wants him for his power
His potential, but Kylo is still untrained. Snoke mentions it.
>its implied he killed an academy of Jedi
He had help from a bunch of knights of Ren.
>>63772777
>Lol no.
Lol yes. What do you think the point of "he killed a whole academy of Luke's students!" was? JJ put in tonnes of "oooo this will make him seem scary!" things because having a villain who isn't scary fucks up your movie, particularly with Star Wars. It's clear what the intent was, and he botched it.
>>63772835
Yeah, that's the point. He was the strongest of Luke's academy, and then Snoke wanted him in particular for his power, and then he was trained under Snoke as well.
And yet this guy who was powerful enough to best all of these other trainees, is being exploited for his potential by Snoke, and got even more Sith training, jobs to a girl who has been using the Force for a few hours and has never once held a lightsaber in her live.
>>63770460
>someone ho had never even used a lightsaber before
Rey obviously knows how to fight with a big stick its really not that ridiculous to think that she would also know how to fight with a slightly shorter one.
>>63772870
Except you're wrong. Snoke has no confidence in him, he's just using Ren becauee it's all he's got. Ren didn't actually fight anyone before Rey, he just blocked one shot from a mile away. He's a petulant child, not even fully trained, and it shows.
>>63772893
This. Luke had basically no lightsaber training and he managed to defeat the greatest Jedi killer in history. Anakin was a master pilot as a 9-years-old. The Skywalkers are prodigies.
its a movie where the good guy uses magic to fight the bad guys who use laser guns why do you guys care about inconsistencies in stuff like this
If Rey was a man we wouldn't be having this discussion.
What is shes kylo's sister?
Questions this movie left unanswered:
1. Who the fuck is snoke?
2. What turned Kylo evil?
3. Why does kylo view his grandfather as being the evil sith lord Darth Vader and not anakin skywalker the redeemed Jedi that killed the emperor considering he learned directly from Luke and must've known this...
Lesser question: what's with Han saying "he had too much Vader in him"
A phrase that both ignores the prequels and return of the Jedi
I get ignoring the prequels even if I don't approve but ignoring rotj makes no sense
Surely luke told his old friend han the truth about Vader, that he wasn't evil all his life....
>>63773035
She's Luke's daughter
>>63772970
Being torn between the light and the dark side makes him weaker though.
And there is nothing special about light-sabers. If anything Rey has the advantage because Vader saber is a lot better.
>>63773000
>Luke had basically no lightsaber training and he managed to defeat the greatest Jedi killer in history.
In the rematch Luke's Jedi training was complete though. As well Luke was turning the mindgames and Force on Vader, who wasn't supposed to kill him in the first place, but was also beginning to feel the Light in himself which Luke was trying to bring forth.
He was a truly phantom menace.
>>63772970
>What do you think the point of "he killed a whole academy of Luke's students!"
To show that he was evil, of course. But what do you think the point of all those scenes where cries like a bitch was? Why do you think they cast a wimpy guy like Adam Driver? It's because they wanted a boy who couldn't live up to his role model. JJ knew trying to make another physical badass when we already had Vader, Maul and Grievous would be pointless, so he went in the other direction.
>>63773028
fuck off reddit
Kylo Ren was gimped from his many previous injuries and severe mental trauma from Spoilers and his innate volitility.
Rey had innert powers from the get go, she just never realized it. Her faith in thd jedi myths is what let her use it so easily as doubt canonically limits force use. Not too mention she's able to use battle meditation.
Rey is a bit too bland IMO, dunno why every "strong" female character becomes is written so 1 dimensional now adays.
Anyone have a pic of snoke? My folks want to see one.
>>63772865
Maybe it is a little nit-picky, but...
The constant theme throughout the originals is that power is not easily attained and even in Lukes case, even though he is a sort of force prodigy, Obiwan and Yoda fear training him because they're afraid he might turn to the dark side.
He gains power gradually with help, training and experience.
>>63773028
Except people are also incredulous about Finn lasting more than five seconds when he can't even use the Force.
>>63773066
What if shes kylos sister?
>>63773028
We probably still would have had it
When you establish your main character as Mary Sue Mc.Stronk it's really hard to have any tension. If Luke just backhanded Vader in episode 5 who the fuck would have cared about the confrontation in episode 6?
If the OT used sequel logic Luke would have landed on Dagobah and Yoda would have mumbled some stuff and Luke would have fucking ripped the X-Wing out of the swamp and said later
>>63773076
ayyyy
>>63773073
>In the rematch Luke's Jedi training was complete though
Yeah, his limited self-training. He didn't go back to Yoda until he had freed Han, and by then Yoda was on his last breaths. Even with a few hours with Obi-Wan Luke could deflect blasters with his eyes closed and take out the Death Star without a targetting computer. Another few hours with Yoda and he went toe to toe with Vader.
>>63773112
Wouldn't any use of a lightsaber show, perhaps not a mastery of the force, but an affinity to it?
>>63773073
>In the rematch Luke's Jedi training was complete though
When?
He left yoda to fight vader the first time, then rescued Han from Jabba. Then returned to yoda to finish his training but yoda died the day he returned.
Luke had a few hours of training with Obiwan and a few days of training with Yoda at best. That was it for his formal training as a Jedi.
>>63773028
bullshit
>>63773154
But still a considerable amount of time passed between films. Rey learns about the force in roughly 4 days?
>>63773115
He would have recognized her. Han and Leia too.
>>63773124
Vader was one of the strongest Jedi in the galaxy who hunted down and killed other Jedi.
Kylo is nowhere near that level.
And if Vader was so good he should haven't been beaten by Han Solo in the first film.
>>63773107
>Rey is a bit too bland IMO
This is also how I felt. They really didn't give her like...any real flaws? So it's really hard to see her progress or care.
Luke didn't believe in stupid myths and got his ass beat several times so it's more rewarding when he does anything.
With Rey it just felt like oh the force? Yep. Move things with the force? Sure. Lightsaber fight? Yep.
>>63773071
>Being torn between the light and the dark side makes him weaker though.
He was pretty darkside after killing daddy m8, and that emotion is also what he can feed from to drive his darkside power.
>And there is nothing special about light-sabers.
Are you fucking joking? Ever since the first movie the lightsaber has been glorified as a weapon of great power that takes immense skill and training to use. Just the fact that the blade itself has no weight is unintuitive enough. It's bullshit that Finn, a non-Force user was able to pick one up and swing it around for five seconds against Kylo, and further more that Rey was able to defeat him.
>>63773081
Except for the entire movie he didn't try to go in the other direction. The entire movie was JJ trying to make him threatening, and then dropping the ball at the very end right before the endzone.
>>63771142
I had a thought on the mindtrick thing,,
I had a different explanation for that scene:
The Imperials were trained from birth to OBEY, so when she tried the third time, after looking at the storm troopers sternly and then commanding 'release me' etc, they took it as just an order rather than her 'force persuading' them
>>63773184
How much time do you think past between V and VI? A few weeks probably. Hardly any time, but Luke somehow learned how to mind trick, force choke, and fight with a lightsaber to the point where he could defeat Vader. And let's be honest here, Kylo was nowhere near Vader and he was badly wounded.
>>63773184
I wouldn't say what she did counts as 'learning the force' compared to the fully trained jedi we've seen in 1-3, she's at the most at the level of a padawan learner.
>>63773165
>few days of training with Yoda
This is not well established. could have been a few months.
>>63773154
>He didn't go back to Yoda until he had freed Han, and by then Yoda was on his last breaths.
And with his last breathes, he told Luke that his Jedi training was complete.
>>63773165
>When?
In the rematch. It's in the very sentence you quoted.
>>63773203
Vader was a turbo cripple and his gimmick was being decent in sword fighting and having the force
I think it's totally within his character to lose a dog fight in a space ship. Especially when it's unexpected and your ship is probably weaker.
>>63773243
>Except for the entire movie he didn't try to go in the other direction. The entire movie was JJ trying to make him threatening, and then dropping the ball at the very end right before the endzone.
I can't tell if this is bait.
>>63773243
>Ever since the first movie the lightsaber has been glorified as a weapon of great power
In the first movie they do jackshit with the sabers.
>>63773251
Nah, that was Mind-Trick, they're trained to Obey superiors, not captives. Otherwise Wedge 2.0 wouldn't need any assistance in leaving.
It's like no one who watched this movie understands this character. He was probably my favorite, very complex, insecure and volatile.
He has almost no formal training and cannot control his emotions well, of course when shown a real opponent he will lose. He slaughtered innocent people in the beginning of the movie, not soldiers.
Also, he lost that fight because he was clearly emotionally desterbed after what he had just done, and TOOK A BOWCASTER BOLT TO THE CHEST. A weapon which had already been shown twice blowing people the fuck away. I'm surprised he was still standing, let alone fighting.
>>63773284
>And with his last breathes, he told Luke that his Jedi training was complete.
It was a mental thing, Luke had grown emotionally since ESB. He wasn't a child in danger of having his emotions used against him anymore.
>>63773284
>he told Luke that his Jedi training was complete.
That was a lie to make him feel better about himself.
>>63773266
It was a few months
>>63773283
>This is not well established. could have been a few months.
The falcon was pursued directly from hoth into the asteroid belt. In that time luke had begun his training.
It didn't take them montsh to reach bespin, or for the Bespin trap to be sprung. At least it wasn't portrayed liek that on film.
>>63773293
He was the best pilot in the galaxy, had a custom made ship from the Empire and his machine prosthesis made him stronger than any normal man.
>>63773342
Expanded universe?
Expanded universe.
I think they showed that Kylo Ren had a lot of power in the force but almost no ability to finely control it or limit the area he was using it in desu.
>>63772998
Where was it showed that Snoke had no confidence, Snoke may have thought that Rey had more potential, but that's different from no confidence. If Kylo took out a jedi academy, even if he had help, it implies that he fought people. He was showed to be emotionally unstable, but the fact that he mentally overpowered Poe, defeated Finn and had his power explicitly stated by Han demonstrates that he was threatening. Not being fully trained when you are trained by Luke and a Dark Lord doesn't mean he is incompetent.
>>63773342
>EU
>canon
>>63773342
>thinks shitty fanfiction amounts to anything
>>63773266
It was 6 months
I was constantly distracted during the movie because of the parallels to a new hope
The pottery was too strong in JJ. I think he rhymed his stanzas better then Lucas.
How han's death should have gone
>Kylo fakes turning over
>han grabs lightsaber
>kylo actuvates it
>in his last moments han decks kylo ren in the face
>>63773408
>thinks shitty fanfiction amounts to anything
>thinks this film wasn't shitty fan fiction
>>63773348
The Falcon lacked a hyperdrive on that trip, and it took weeks to get to Bespin, I'd go for a month at least, 2 if I'd guess.
That's about the amount of time it takes to put the basics down for the US Military. While Jedi training is probably more rigorous, Yoda did say it wasn't near over when he left to go get his hand chopped off for no reason.
>>63771142
She's also a great engineer and competent space pilot despite having nearly no research materials and only having experience with smaller vessels.
RIP suspension of disbelief
>>63773389
> the fact that he mentally overpowered Poe, defeated Finn
Two average joes.
> and had his power explicitly stated by Han
Han is an expert in the Force now?
We simply don't know what Kylo can do at this point. He may have a lot of raw power but it's clearly not focused, while Ray's was.
>>63773425
Source? EU shit doesn't count.
>>63773451
>The Falcon lacked a hyperdrive on that trip, and it took weeks to get to Bespin, I'd go for a month at least, 2 if I'd guess.
You just pulled that out of your ass.
>>63773217
Rey really needed a slower introduction like how it was done with Luke, the slow build up helped us understand his character and feel a connection. Though the movie is too face paced for that I suppose.
>>63773454
So... like Anakin and Luke?
A LONG
LONG
TIMEAGO
INA GALAXY
FAR
AWAY
NABOO WAS UNDER
AN ATTACK
ANDIHADTHOUGHTMEANDQUIGONJINN
COULD
TALK THE FEDERATION IN
TO MAYBE CUTTING THEM
A LITTLE
SLACK
>>63773484
I guess it must have been two days then you fuckwad
>>63773484
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:KB:Hoth_to_Bespin this ass to be particular, I admit I didn't research much further past that but I do remember that the Hyperdrive didn't work which is why they went to Bespin in the first place.
>>63773432
Yeah I'd rather have something like this
Have Han be like this is last time I'm talking to him before I kill him myself or something
Maybe have him reach for a blaster and fire off a few shots as he's going down
Anything is better then impaling an old guy that makes a face like he shit himself and then falling down. Give the character some dignity
Can we just admit that the scene where she uses the force to mind control the storm trooper was pretty much just to get a laugh from the audience? The fact that she used it to get away is secondary.
>>63773511
But their response it didn't thrill us
They locked the doors and tried to kill us.
>>63773484
>You just pulled that out of your ass
Expanded universe said the falcon used a slower backup hyperdrive and that it took at least a month to reach bespin. This gave them more time fore luke to be trained. Again this was EU.
In the film they simply said "we have to set down for repairs. What's Close? Oh hey we'll go see lando!" but no time frame was given.
>>63770460
>so weak
Does that mean Luke is weaker than Kylo? The dude killed all his jedi classmates and Skywalker wasnt able to stop him.
>>63773527
>This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion
Go to bed, friend.
How did they take out the new deathstar?
>>63773585
Luke > Vader so no. Luke probably wasn't even there. We won't find out until Ep. VIII.
>>63773557
Sure. TFA actually had a couple of laughs.
When Kylo put Poe on his knees, I thought this was going to be quip central but most of the humor after this was decent.
>>63773573
Anyone who references the EU literally IS pulling something out of their ass, because that's what the author of that shitty book you read, did. That shitty book that Lucas never read or acknowledged, btw.
Sorry you wasted your life.
>>63773304
Lucas and his collaborators for New Hope have literally stated that the instructions on the Obi Wan Vader fight was to swing the blades as if they were heavy, and weapons of immense power. The joke is that "hurrrr old man and robot fighting," but the intent was to show the power and deliberateness of each blow with the kendo style. As well within the movie Luke only pulls out the lightsaber as a last resort because of how dangerous it is and his inexperience with it, using a blaster for most of the movie. You can't seriously be telling me that fucking Star Wars A New Hope is 2deep4u
>>63773335
Yes, exactly. His Jedi training was complete.
>>63773623
The part where Kylo is throwing a tantrum, calling for the guards, and those two stormtroopers do a 180 and walk away was pretty funny.
>>63773602
Oh you mean the thing the size of a planet that can absorb the mass of a star?
By destroying the "Oscillator"
Whatever the fuck is supposed to be
TFA would have been better if
> storm troopers had been volunteers.
Having to brainwash your army means your cause has no dedicated support. If this is the case then there is no conceivable way the order could ever maintain control over the entire galaxy. If they had any redeeming features then they would be able to round up a considerable army in a galaxy of trillions. Hitler's was larger than sheevs clone army and he only had 3billion to pull from. Without believable motivation for the antagonists they just become worthless background, no better than george's battledroids.
> rey didn't have control of her force powers.
Nothing was solved by this and it did nothing for the story or her characters development. The rey force reveal had already happened earlier in the film and we didn't need to see her preform mind tricks, read minds, move objects for us to understand she was force sensitive. Finn han and chewy could have rescued her and the battle at the end didn't require it. We already knew kylo had self doubt from his own exposition. We already knew she was a capable brawler and talented tinkerer. If we had seen rey and finn battle a wounded kylo together at the end only to barely escape with their lives, after a weak and emotional accidental force push from rey allowed them to flee, it would have made much more sense in context of the other films and wouldn't have cheapened the jedi abilities.
I liked everything else. If these 2 things were changed the subsequent movies could have been much better. As it stands, i don't think they will ever be more than just fun movies.
>>63773648
His training in the Force, however, was not.
>>63773650
Han's "That's not how the force works!" got me pretty good.
>>63771858
I thought the Jedi mind trick was done tactfully.
>>63770460
>why did JJ make him so weak he lost to someone ho had never even used a lightsaber before
coz...
>>63773674
What do you think Jedi training is, retard?
You've got nothing to argue with, unless you think you're a better judge of when someone's training is complete than Yoda the 900 year old Jedi master.
>>63771142
The movie had great action scenes, but is completely filled with these lazy conveniences.
>>63773672
I disagree with both your points, but yeah, a JJ movie can never be great, just good. But he's not directing the next one, so we'll see.
>>63773456
If the villain constantly overpowers the main heroes, I would think that villain is meant to be presented as threatening. I'm more inclined to believe Han then someone who doesn't know Ren. Regardless of how objectively powerful he is, I think its clear that the movie wanted to present Kylo as a legitimate threat to the heroes.
It also seems weird and deflates tension when Rey can suddenly focus her force powers so potently without training, while someone with years of training can't. Sure it can be explained with force potential, but I worry that this is going to be used whenever she escapes from trouble.
>>63773624
I'm not the guy you were arguing with. The EU is shit and I am agreeing with you.
I was just explaining both sides.
On film it took no time at all to get to bespin (one scene later. same clothing, no worse for wear).
>>63773652
Scifi tech is scifi
They talked about reversing polarities more than once, but they do that crap in every scifi show. Its part of the package.
>>63773687
>insta-skills
>one of the hardest Jedi skills to acquire
Why was he so hot. I couldn't be the only one that wished he would feel up Rey, am I? Weres my fanfiction.
I think Kylo got hit by Chewie because he wasnot 100% with it after having killed his father. Then Rey beat Kylo because he was injured.
This movie had so much pottery though.
>>63773672
This
I really hope they invest some effort into character development for Rey in the next film. They also REALLY need to add some inner conflict into her character arc. I mean that's pretty much at the core of Star Wars
>>63773711
>What do you think Jedi training is
A code, a way of life, and a mental state more than anything else. You're insane if you think even Luke can master the Force in a few days. The fucking Chosen One couldn't do it.
>>63772362
>lukes side of the family
They're literally twins. Same side of the family
>>63773157
Fuck no, it's a sword. And they showed that he was shit with it by having him beat near to death by a bad-ass stormtrooper AND Kylo Ren.
He's Han Solo-esque, bro. Luck saved his ass every time.
>>63773680
Chewy was cracking me up the entire movie. I felt really sad for him when /spoiler happened, though. He was pissed.
>>63771425
Retarded or fanboy? Maybe there is no difference.
She only stared winning the fight when she closed her eyes to relax and feel the force. That's the opposite of rage Retard.
I havent seen it yet but she didnt kill him right? If not I'm sure he'll get more powerful in the next movie or whatever.
>>63773369
... He got surprised, there was no dogfight. He literally got suckerpunched by the Falcon and lived to tell about it.
>>63773723
Oh, I agree. He was meant to be a threat to the heroes, but that's only because they're two normal guys and on untrained girl. If you replace Vader with Kylo in ESB Luke would curb him.
>It also seems weird and deflates tension when Rey can suddenly focus her force powers so potently without training, while someone with years of training can't.
It had more to do with his emotional state. He was a wreck after killing his father, while Ray was calm and collected.
>>63771599
I was really hoping she'd kill Ren off right then and there. I don't feel any desire to see his character again, and it would've set Rey on a more interesting path of character development since she's currently too flawless.
>>63770460
>that completely ham fisted nazi symbolism
>TIE fighters have turrets on the back when the plot requires it only
>girl who literally collects scrap for 1/2 rations of bread knows how to fly space ships
>girl also beats the sith apprentice mere moments after acquiring a light saber
>FUCKING MEGA DEATH STAR SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON FAGGOTRY
>the plan to stop the mega death star is LITERALLY "12 X wings do a trench run"
Seriously fucking trash it
sound was top notch though
